Thanks for reacting to the video brother! I could never get down to 70kgs I’m about 6’3”. Made this video more for fun. Maybe doubling my watts per kg of 1.8 to start would be more achievable! Again thanks for breaking this down. Was fun!
EJ left a great comment, letting us know that he’s considering changing is goal from “double my FTP” to “double my w/kg,” which is a much better goal. Now he’ll be motivated to get stronger AND lose weight, which means that every little bit of training, recovery, and diet will mean that much more!
my 20 minute power tests "proggression" 2017 start of my journey 2018 303w @78 3.9w/kg 2019 330w @76 4.3w/kg 2020 351w @72 4.9w/kg 2021 348w @68 5.1w/kg 2022 348w @73 4.8w/kg 2020 I had by far the most time to train for obvious reason and because of that I saw the biggest jump in fitness, other than that my fitness plateued, I simply can not put any more time into this (at least for now) my annual volume is around 15,000km
I am so impressed with you Jesse. As a rider who struggles with consistency, you really opened up my eyes with how to do things the right way. Thank you!
As a new rider I really enjoyed this video. The advice regarding sticking with the workout even if the first interval feels miserable is so relatable ! Thanks for the cool content!
Thanks Jesse, good breakdown of his training. Too bad EJ has to figure this out on his own. I guess this is what you get with packaged training programs. Seems to me that Jeff should be posting this video breakdown of EJ's training. Glad someone did it.
I experienced this when starting out with running years ago. First 1-2 years was PB after PB and ~1:30 in a half marathon, but then you hit the ceiling with the achievable volume in your daily life. Shaving off another 5 or 10 minutes already requires a lot more training. That's how I actually got into road cycling, having a breath of fresh air. I'm not just riding along but my goals are usually smaller, like getting FTP up by 10-15% percent so that I can do a hill climb under a certain time. So, he'll probably get in the 300 watts realm but 380 are pro numbers, right? I just checked some TdF pro rides from last year and somebody like Sepp Kuss doesn't crank out 380 on a 20-30 minute climb (I know, you're not doing an FTP test within stage 9 typically, but you're probably not going easy, either ...)
You’re not factoring in weight. Raw power doesn’t mean anything with kilogram weight. Sepps raw power over weight is likely 5-6wkg, versus 380 for this guy is likely 4wkg
I know, but he would have to double his power-to-weight ratio to get there, without losing weight. Since Kuss is 61 kg and even a bulky guy like Ganna only weighs 82 kg at 1,93m height, I'd guess his weight would significantly go down and then he also needs to bring 5w/kg down, but doubling his original 1.8 is doable.
Hey Jesse! Love the content as always - you mentioned that a key difference when looking for performance gains is all the things you do outside of just ‘completing the training’. Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? Is it nutrition, is it recovery, is it strength training etc. Would be great to see what outside of training you think has the biggest influence on performance! TIA
Thanks a lot for mentioning that heart rate goes up the roof if intense training day is not preceded by an easier ride day! Had that issue when I first tapped into tempo rides (level 3/6), 2 weeks ago. Felt like my heat is about to give up (age 42) and had to back off a bit. After watching this video, I modified my plan to include a 60 min endurance ride the day before tempo.
Huge improvement... 192w @ 115kg in July '22 to 330w FTP @ 82kg in Feb '23. May do a follow-up vid! Need to find out what his FTP was around Nov/Dec '22 to get some data between those two vastly different fitness levels
Based on one of NorCal’s main channel videos it looks like he was around 256 watts (~270 watts for 20 minutes) in January 2023, before starting the structured workouts from the masterclass. And I think the 334 watt estimate came from a 20 minute test just four or five weeks later. I’m honestly curious how they approached his training with improvements coming that rapidly… On a slightly different note, and not to take anything away from what EJ has accomplished, but his Strava indicates that he has slightly more history with cycling than they’ve let on in their videos. He had a long stretch of cycling in 2021 including some pretty long rides with decent estimated power (to take one example, a nearly three hour ride with a Strava-estimated power of 226 watts). His Strava from 2021 also mentions racing mountain bikes in high school, something I don’t think they’ve ever mentioned in the NorCal cycling videos. Again, his progress is impressive and probably inspiring to a lot of people, but I can’t help but be a little cynical about how they’ve contextualized that progress when the entire story has been connected to the sale of their masterclass.
Look at his wildly fluctuating weekly mileage/time. In January he hit 25 hours for the week then the next week only 4:30 hours. Then he built back up to 17:30 hours then back to 12 and this week had 2 consecutive days off. He is just not very consistent. Work/life making videos. He’s going to find out very quick this is not sustainable. His motivation may drop just from burnout making the videos and editing them.
I don’t think it’s far off to think that he could double his W/kg right? He was pretty big and with a 190 ftp he was probably around 2 w/kg (I think I remember him saying this at some point in a video) but going from 190 to 380 seems lofty. He has lost around a ton of weight.
Losing 20 kg and getting close to 300 watts, and you'd be in the ballpark of 2 -> 4 w/kg, that should be achievable with dedicated training for a year.
Yeah, it definitely is. I think he realizes it's a dream goal, so as long as he doesn't beat himself up about it he'll be okay. He has a coach to temper expectations and prevent overtraining, so he should be alright. He's putting in big volume so he should make pretty big gains +100w to 290 wouldn't be possible with ideal training, nutrition, recovery. He's mentioned mid-ride sandwiches and lots of barbecue which isn't 100% optimal, but I also don't see everything he eats outside of the vlogs, so he might have everything else dialed in. I wish him the best!
Being a bit cynical here, the "double the FTP" is probably partly to get a click-baity title. On the other hand when I was very new to structured training I imagined the initial gains would continue linearly and that I could have 5+w/kg pretty soon
Seems like the goal is clickbait more than anything; a video titled "increasing my FTP in a year" doesn't get the clicks. As I understand it, the specific FTP is not important; it's a way to quickly say, "I want to get as fit as possible in a year," with fewer words.
You comment on all the questions that arose when I was watching Ethan’s video, like “is that even achievable?!” But also questions I didn’t know I had like “is it okay to eat lunch mid ride?”. Max value video!
Hi Jesse, thanks for your videos! I have a question that I've been thinking about often. Living in a very flat country, I sometimes wonder why I so often hear all this talk about power to weight as the be all and end all of fitness assessment. I can see the importance of focusing on watts per kg if your'e Phil Gaimon or a world class hill climber, but more often than not, I suspect that riders would benefit way more from focusing their traning other aspects of their physiology than weight. The reason being that weight makes little difference when not accelerating aggressively or climbing in excess of 7% grades. And even in the high mountains, five kgs makes less of a difference than many riders assume. I'm guessing a few minutes over an hour of climbing the Alpe for instance. And on the flats, I'm arguing, the importance of weight is decisively negligeable. I recently heard that guy from Silca say how they would experiment with loading up to five-ten kgs on a track bike in a simulated hour record attempt and that it literally made seconds of a difference. And it always seems to be the case that the speed benefits of aero gear always beat the weight penalty associated with that equipment in all other cases than perhaps extended climbing in steeper terrain. What I'm getting at is this: Shouldn't most of us focus on the relation between our power output and (something like) aerodynamics loooong before we start to think about shredding those last five kgs? I myself have been waking up to the importance of CDA and my position on the bike, and among all my riding buddies and among racers in the amateur ranks that I come across, it's not rare that I see really fit, strong folks with great power outputs and good position on the bike easily ride away from more slender riders with equally great power but a more upright position. I realize that this is anecdotal, but I heard that Fuglsang started eating way more the year he won Liege. So my own best guess would be that for newer riders, maybe focusing on position and power output would be less taxing and more achievable than adding in a strict diet, if you are a new rider having to work out everything. And my bonus guess would be that those last five kgs would not mean anything of real importance in terms of results for a guy like this unless the goal is a very climby course. So my question is: Isn't it a bit unnecessary to be so interested in power to weight unless we were all strictly climbers or had most other aspects dialed in already? Do you see any other competing assessments for fitness other than watts/kg? Thanks from Mads
Hi, the power to weight is extremely important because almost all routes or events have hills. All road cycling races are hilly, at least 90-95% of them. Once you get to the hill in race you will get dropped even if trying the hardest. Heavier person wastes much more calories, glycogen and creates more heat, but the body is not twice bigger and better at heat dissipation. So in every case where route includes gradients of 3 and more - the lighter rider will be superior. Also think about slipstream, to lighter rider easier to keep up on straights or downhill because of slipstream. To run away at 50kph to accelerate to 60kph you need extra 300 watts, it's impossible, but he can add 50 in slipstream and use it. On the uphills heavy riders doesn't get any privilege of slipstream or assistance. So this is the reason why w/kg is most priority. P.s. I am 95kg, have been in local racing team half year and suffered a lot, since most of their rides are Uphills and average weight 68-70
Great video, so much to learn from your commenting and explanations! I was dreaming to get 300 ftp, going from 225(2.35w/kg) and with much training stuck at the 250 ftp plateau. The only thing that constantly progressed is how long and easy I could sustain the efforts and the recovery from each effort was much faster. So I still looking at people reaching 350-380 like - wow, this is so cosmic and so much work and genetics were put through the years of training 🤗
I recently just got started focusing on increasing my performance on the bike and I must say when I saw that video it was hard to believe. I think chasing Watts/KG BW ratio is better rather than chasing a arbitrary number..
I'm not the smartest person in the world. Well maybe second smartest Do you know the meaning of arbitrary? Your weight is going to fluctuate more than a power number. It's arbitrary when your weight is changing instead of looking at a more stable number which would be wattage. But again, like you said you're a beginner so I understand. Just to let you know, I am the first person to ever use structured training in cycling using intervals. Im the inventor of this. The Gods only gift Greeks with knowledge. Not Australians. I spoke to Chris and gave him some of my advice. Trying to make him understand that training doesn't have to be that hard.
According to hes video updates, he actually made it. Which makes me think those numbers was not unfamiliar for him, he had just had a break a gotten out of shape.
@14:06 I've seen studies that show if you are over weight for most of your life your body takes that as the "normal" and will try yo get back to it. So if you get your body used to being at a lower weight it starts to recognize that as "normal" - SO I can understand what he is trying to say
having been on a similar weight loss to semi fast cyclist, i think he means it might take a year for the brain to realize that the bmr has decreased. it took a year for me to lose a lot of the hunger i had initially
That seems awfully long. I lost a good 7kg for cycling and yes it took some periods of eating undercaloric and feeling hungry, but it was over after a couple of months tops.
@@tyler5246 but fat doesn't require that many calories to maintain, the hunger you feel is actually eating undercaloric in order to lose the weight. Once you lost it, and maintain weight, you should not feel hungry for a year. The amount of weight you lost does not matter.
Ethan looks quite a big boned muscular guy and at 6ft3 he looks around 90kg's at least? So that would mean a 4.26w/kg @ 90kg to reach 384watts. But then being a lightweight I don't really understand the physiology of big riders or how common or achievable that is?
Doubling W/kg is fairly doable depending on weight loss potential. He doesn’t seem significantly overweight, however from personal experience, I more or less doubled W/kg in my first year from 170w @ 83kg to 266w @ 66kg, where I feel 4W/kg while a decently hard achievement, very doable with consistent training, once you build up to 10 hrs/week after a few months. But then took me another 4-5 years to get to 325w, and I feel i have somewhat reasonable genetics, so even then, getting to 380w for him would still take years, even with world-class genetics. Even the pro’s have 10 years+ in their legs, as they usually start young or come from a different sporting background.
It's pretty simple Jesse... If he said increase my ftp by 30%...who's going to click on that!! Double ftp.. Now ya talking. I'm going to go for triple the subs.. I mean ftp lol
I managed to from 2.7 w/kg to 4 w/kg ftp in 1 year at age 37. I'll maybe be able to up this to 4.5 w/kg in the next year. Above that I would probably need to quit my job to get enough training in and still not sure if I would have the necessary vo2max to get there....
I appreciate you mentioning the hassle and pitfalls of consistently driving to riding destinations, something that is all too common here in the US. Every weekend guys get together to ride somewhere, but often the meet point is 45min away - your day is toast after that. I'm not a fan of dedicating the entirety of a weekend day for a single ride, and as you said, that's not sustainable.
This is again exactly those kinds of videos that I'm looking for and that are lacking. Actual applicable analysis and not just theory that isn't put in the practice of actually riding. Like at 6:00 you can get to 240W by just intensity but beyond it you need volume. Simple statement of applying theory into practice so I get a picture of what it is.
The only thing I’d disagree with is that driving to ride is stressful. When you live in the city, it’s actually really nice to drive out towards cool places to ride your bike. it’d probably be more stressful to ride in the city with cars and traffic.
Hii, I started training last year and my ftp peaked at 265w (4.2w/kg) would it be possible to peak at 310w (5w/kg) this year? Is this a realistic goal?
Hi Jesse! What about increasing power specifically for cycling is so hard? For example, if you took an average guy who could back squat 100kg, with training in a year he could easily lift 150kg and would likely land in 170-175kg territory. If you could increase your FTP by 50-75% (granted not 100%), most people would be elated. That being said, I've heard many times people talk about increasing FTP by 20-30w as being really hard and you'd want to cross off other things first ex:body position, aero suite, aero helmet, wheels, tires etc. Is the FTP on a bike hard because most cyclists don't cross train enough into a gym to really grow strength or is there something else going on that I (most likely) just don't understand. For reference, I'm pretty new to cycling so I very well might not understand :P
Increasing FTP has nothing to do with cross training in the gym. Aerobic fitness increase is slower for many reasons. There is less capacity to increase, e.g. average healthy adults FTP can only go up maybe ~100% from baseline. Compare that to other physical aspects like strength, with much less time commitment could see 150%-200% improvement. It just is what it is. There are other physical processes that increase way faster even than strength increases. Think about how fast your hair grows. It's just dependant on what the biology of the tissue (muscle, blood, tendons, etc) is that needs to adapt to get the resulting fitness increase.
Only people who weigh 77kg as that would give you a 5w/k ftp which is the number that matter. Not your actual ftp number. Less weight. Less watts and vise versa 👌👌
@@thediabeticcyclist4936 a lot of cycling is happening on flatter areas and rolling terrain, not just 7%+ hills so even if you weight 85kg but have a 400w FTP you'd be an absolute beast. Also Watts per kilo gets consistent and useful only on around 5% and more climbs, for example, 65kg rider who's pushing 5w/kg (325w) up 4% climb is going to be slower than a 80kg guy who's also pushing 5w/kg (400w). People always want to downgrade the importance of RAW power when in reality Watts/kg only matters in the TDF mountain stages and mabye for someone who's racing in a place like Andorra.
That wierd mentality only cycling attracts. If I just train, I too can be an olympic cyclist... If he had the potential for 380, he would already be an athlete. He would have been noticed in school, been on a track team or football or swimming or like Jesse rowing. It's very rare to get through life with those genetics and not notice you can beat your mates untrained in a sprint to the shops. 380 is no dice. Even over 300 is a big goal. Go for small steps in a big journey. Aim to finish with the fast bunch in a year, forget ftp.
It don't matter even if you were an athlete. It helps up to a point. Endurance sports are not for everyone. I have figured out how to make it easy for everyone. And this is what I explained to Jeff when he was injured. I gave him the blueprint on how to increase your FTP. He went ahead and deleted those comments weeks later creating a video exactly on what I told him. I don't lie it's not in my nature. Let him say I am a liar.
I guess for winning a crit sprint and anaerobic capacity should be more of a factor. Like 10w/kg for a minute is going to be more use than an extra bit of FTP so long as you have enough to sit in the wheels.
No, having an engine is just as important, bearing in mind that as your FTP increases sp does your % Vo2 max etc. 500 watt repeats are much easier from an FTP of 300 watts than they are from 250 watts bearing in mind you have to have enought left in the tank to contest a sprint. Just hanging on to wheels waiting for a bunch kick considerably limits your ability to ride the race, it means you need a number of things to go your way to put you in a position to compete for a sprint finish, not always easy to do as a solo rider. If there's a break for example it largely means unless someone bridges and you can follow and get a free ride your definitely not winning......any way there's a myriad of reasons as to why FTP is important for crit racing
Nor Cal based cyclist here. Very high IQ/kg analysis 🧠👏🏻 One of our strongest local time trial riders just tested his FTP at 335w as part of a 50 min 40km ITT that he then extended to an hour. Guessing he weighs around 75 kgs. 380 is an absurd pipe dream. I doubt Jeff of Nor Cal has ever had that FTP (he is primarily a sprinter).
September I was 90kg - 270w. 3w per kg Jan I was 86kg - 306w. 3.5w per kg Today I’m around 82kg and due a retest but I think I’ve gained another 10 or so watts 🤞🏻 For reference, I’m 36, not tracking calories, eating what I want, fuelling my sessions and doing 8-12 hours a week. not sure if that’s good, bad, or average but I’m going in the right direction 😅
RE Your comment that you wouldn’t recommend an FTP test every 5 weeks. It’s too stressful, no point and there are better workouts. What do you prescribe for an easy week in general and what workout instead of an FTP test? Thanks! Great content as usual.
I don't know many riders who need a whole easy week, unless it's a full training break. For a regular recovery period after a good 3-5 weeks of training, most riders will be good to go after 3-5 days of no intensity, likely 2 full rest days in there as well. There's no workout to replace an FTP test, just whatever intense workouts the rider was doing regularly as part of normal training in the weeks before
In terms of the one rest day a week, I'm currently doing 4 days per week on the trainer, new cyclist, just started structured training last April. Was planning to increase my volume of structured training this year to 6h/wk or greater but I get the impression that is still not enough volume. My concern is moving to only 2 days or 1 day off per week would lead me less recovered for intensity sessions as even with Z2 it is building some fatigue. Should the volume be prioritized over intensity and I should reach for getting 8+ hours a week even if it means I have less capacity for SS, Threshold, VO2 sessions?
I was 200 lbs and 246 watts on January 1, I'm down to 188 lbs now at 285 watts, should be at least 300 by June. You can easily get to 300 if you put in some structured training.
@@HydeMyJekyll I have been up to 300 watts, the problem has been getting my weight down below 90 kg... I might actually have an easier time getting to 330 at 80 kg.
I disagree with the notion that unrealistic goals aren't useful. Sure, some people respond poorly, but many people respond well. I never reach my end goal but I get so much further striving for it than I otherwise would. You obviously still need micro step goals to pave the way there. I used to have the goal of getting a medal at world's in swimming. It got me to a few national finals. I broke my neck last year, and set myself a goal of completing an Iron man 8 months later to get me back in shape. It wasn't pretty, (12 hours) but I did it.
I think the ‘double my ftp’ is probably just about giving it a title… Saying ‘getting to 340w in a year,’ means not a lot so may not get the views. Listening to him he realise that to double will not happen..
There are a lot of people in that area that are pretty good cyclists, there are also a lot of pretty funny attitudes and sly thinkers, don't put it past someone who wasn't well known to sandbag a goal like this to get more attention than they every would have otherwise; he could have been well trained, gained a bunch of weight on purpose for said goal, sandbagged an ftp test, and seem like he has increased his fitness an impossible level by not sandbagging and returning to his original physique in the end. My guess is he sandbagged from the performances he put out at said ftp, he averaged almost 20mph for 3 hours with a sub 200w ftp the day after a 4.5 hour ride at near the same clip, lol.
Training is all about quality over quantity. Get the quality wrong an you can ride until the cows come home and it makes no difference. With top tier genetics, training, nutrition, and drive it takes 3-4 years to reach pro level watts. 12 months, just ain't happening. And dude, zone 2 is the magic. You figure out how on your own as it differs by genetics. I'm at 4.6 watts/kg 13 months in and gains are reducing, peak goal is 5.5watts/kg
Jesse, go check out the recent NorCal video. Looks like Jeff took the novice very close to 2x FTP… they are alleging In addition, your content is rad. Please keep it up !
Yep he's progressing well, huge improvement. But there's a massive way to go to get to double. He's at ~330w now (4 w/kg), for the goal of double needs to get to over 380w. People raising eyebrows seem to forget he's ~82kg, if you take the w/kg it puts it in perspective
FTP every 5 weeks - If he's on a training plan that is longer than 5 weeks and is incrementally overloading, taking an FTP every 5 weeks is just plain wrong. The increasing load over the period of the plan, combined with him increasing his FTP totally skews the plan - he'll end up with training sessions that are too hard for him to complete. Also, why do folks treat FTP as some sort of measure for fitness, when it should only be used calibrate you training sessions? He is gonna really struggle with the diet, I recall watching that vlog on NorCal2 and when I saw that sandwich I thought. Nah mate! Cheese! wtf.
Thanks for reacting to the video brother! I could never get down to 70kgs I’m about 6’3”. Made this video more for fun. Maybe doubling my watts per kg of 1.8 to start would be more achievable! Again thanks for breaking this down. Was fun!
I'm also 6'3" about 75 kg is about as light as guys our size will ever be for select events, more likely we're in the 80 kg range.
I’m 6’2” and 69 kg you have to limit what you eat and ride no cheat days with food also don’t eat 3 hours before you go to bed food and sleep do mix
@@nac2085 yeah but what’s your power out put? 69kg at 6’2 is kinda mad. No offence but you’d have to be a twig no?
Ripped yes I used to weight lift in high school but realized that weight was my enemy ftp on trainer 345 on the road 370 these numbers are 20min
@@crycrcfyhf8862 In my 20's I was 6'3" and weighted 69Kg exactly. I was a twig :D
EJ left a great comment, letting us know that he’s considering changing is goal from “double my FTP” to “double my w/kg,” which is a much better goal. Now he’ll be motivated to get stronger AND lose weight, which means that every little bit of training, recovery, and diet will mean that much more!
my 20 minute power tests "proggression"
2017 start of my journey
2018 303w @78 3.9w/kg
2019 330w @76 4.3w/kg
2020 351w @72 4.9w/kg
2021 348w @68 5.1w/kg
2022 348w @73 4.8w/kg
2020 I had by far the most time to train for obvious reason and because of that I saw the biggest jump in fitness, other than that my fitness plateued, I simply can not put any more time into this (at least for now) my annual volume is around 15,000km
I am so impressed with you Jesse. As a rider who struggles with consistency, you really opened up my eyes with how to do things the right way. Thank you!
Even better than a progress vlog is your commentary on the content of the vlog 👌
You should do a part 2 for this video Nor Cal Cycling just put out another video and that guy's FTP is now 332! Freak of nature numbers.
I pick up so much new information and more clarity when I watch your videos Jesse.
same here!
As a new rider I really enjoyed this video. The advice regarding sticking with the workout even if the first interval feels miserable is so relatable ! Thanks for the cool content!
Thanks Jesse, good breakdown of his training. Too bad EJ has to figure this out on his own. I guess this is what you get with packaged training programs. Seems to me that Jeff should be posting this video breakdown of EJ's training. Glad someone did it.
You are so brutally honest, i love it
Great video! A lot to learn from breaking down someone elses training. Hope to have more like this coming.
I experienced this when starting out with running years ago. First 1-2 years was PB after PB and ~1:30 in a half marathon, but then you hit the ceiling with the achievable volume in your daily life. Shaving off another 5 or 10 minutes already requires a lot more training. That's how I actually got into road cycling, having a breath of fresh air. I'm not just riding along but my goals are usually smaller, like getting FTP up by 10-15% percent so that I can do a hill climb under a certain time. So, he'll probably get in the 300 watts realm but 380 are pro numbers, right? I just checked some TdF pro rides from last year and somebody like Sepp Kuss doesn't crank out 380 on a 20-30 minute climb (I know, you're not doing an FTP test within stage 9 typically, but you're probably not going easy, either ...)
You’re not factoring in weight. Raw power doesn’t mean anything with kilogram weight. Sepps raw power over weight is likely 5-6wkg, versus 380 for this guy is likely 4wkg
I know, but he would have to double his power-to-weight ratio to get there, without losing weight. Since Kuss is 61 kg and even a bulky guy like Ganna only weighs 82 kg at 1,93m height, I'd guess his weight would significantly go down and then he also needs to bring 5w/kg down, but doubling his original 1.8 is doable.
Hey Jesse! Love the content as always - you mentioned that a key difference when looking for performance gains is all the things you do outside of just ‘completing the training’. Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? Is it nutrition, is it recovery, is it strength training etc. Would be great to see what outside of training you think has the biggest influence on performance! TIA
Thanks a lot for mentioning that heart rate goes up the roof if intense training day is not preceded by an easier ride day!
Had that issue when I first tapped into tempo rides (level 3/6), 2 weeks ago. Felt like my heat is about to give up (age 42) and had to back off a bit.
After watching this video, I modified my plan to include a 60 min endurance ride the day before tempo.
Great video JC, solid info as usual.
Great breakdown of his training, stress, etc. Super helpful!
They just released a video where EJ averaged 352W on his 20 minute test..
Huge improvement... 192w @ 115kg in July '22 to 330w FTP @ 82kg in Feb '23. May do a follow-up vid! Need to find out what his FTP was around Nov/Dec '22 to get some data between those two vastly different fitness levels
Based on one of NorCal’s main channel videos it looks like he was around 256 watts (~270 watts for 20 minutes) in January 2023, before starting the structured workouts from the masterclass. And I think the 334 watt estimate came from a 20 minute test just four or five weeks later. I’m honestly curious how they approached his training with improvements coming that rapidly…
On a slightly different note, and not to take anything away from what EJ has accomplished, but his Strava indicates that he has slightly more history with cycling than they’ve let on in their videos. He had a long stretch of cycling in 2021 including some pretty long rides with decent estimated power (to take one example, a nearly three hour ride with a Strava-estimated power of 226 watts). His Strava from 2021 also mentions racing mountain bikes in high school, something I don’t think they’ve ever mentioned in the NorCal cycling videos.
Again, his progress is impressive and probably inspiring to a lot of people, but I can’t help but be a little cynical about how they’ve contextualized that progress when the entire story has been connected to the sale of their masterclass.
The exact sort of content I love on RUclips, great breakdown and very informative
Look at his wildly fluctuating weekly mileage/time. In January he hit 25 hours for the week then the next week only 4:30 hours. Then he built back up to 17:30 hours then back to 12 and this week had 2 consecutive days off. He is just not very consistent. Work/life making videos. He’s going to find out very quick this is not sustainable. His motivation may drop just from burnout making the videos and editing them.
This is the Mentality that makes people give up.. you don't need to put in that much time.
It's not how many miles you do it's how you do them..
check out their channel, he did a 1 like = 1 mile challenge and that led to a ton of unplanned volume that took a minute to recover from
I have really learnt more here today than I have in the last 2 years. Thanks very much and do this sort of videos again pls.
Thanks Charles 👍
I don’t think it’s far off to think that he could double his W/kg right? He was pretty big and with a 190 ftp he was probably around 2 w/kg (I think I remember him saying this at some point in a video) but going from 190 to 380 seems lofty. He has lost around a ton of weight.
Losing 20 kg and getting close to 300 watts, and you'd be in the ballpark of 2 -> 4 w/kg, that should be achievable with dedicated training for a year.
Love this - great commentary! By the way I was expecting something like this as soon as I watched the Nero show with Chris and Jesse :-)
I would say 190 to 330 in one year is dreaming
Pros do that. From off season they'll go down to like 290 and then they'll work their way up to the 400s. Again
300+ is dreaming for a beginner
he’s young and a former college athlete, it would be hard but doable
Yeah, it definitely is. I think he realizes it's a dream goal, so as long as he doesn't beat himself up about it he'll be okay. He has a coach to temper expectations and prevent overtraining, so he should be alright.
He's putting in big volume so he should make pretty big gains +100w to 290 wouldn't be possible with ideal training, nutrition, recovery. He's mentioned mid-ride sandwiches and lots of barbecue which isn't 100% optimal, but I also don't see everything he eats outside of the vlogs, so he might have everything else dialed in.
I wish him the best!
Crazy how these fellas are at 65kg with 420w ftps
Being a bit cynical here, the "double the FTP" is probably partly to get a click-baity title. On the other hand when I was very new to structured training I imagined the initial gains would continue linearly and that I could have 5+w/kg pretty soon
Seems like the goal is clickbait more than anything; a video titled "increasing my FTP in a year" doesn't get the clicks. As I understand it, the specific FTP is not important; it's a way to quickly say, "I want to get as fit as possible in a year," with fewer words.
You comment on all the questions that arose when I was watching Ethan’s video, like “is that even achievable?!” But also questions I didn’t know I had like “is it okay to eat lunch mid ride?”. Max value video!
Hi Jesse, thanks for your videos!
I have a question that I've been thinking about often. Living in a very flat country, I sometimes wonder why I so often hear all this talk about power to weight as the be all and end all of fitness assessment. I can see the importance of focusing on watts per kg if your'e Phil Gaimon or a world class hill climber, but more often than not, I suspect that riders would benefit way more from focusing their traning other aspects of their physiology than weight. The reason being that weight makes little difference when not accelerating aggressively or climbing in excess of 7% grades. And even in the high mountains, five kgs makes less of a difference than many riders assume. I'm guessing a few minutes over an hour of climbing the Alpe for instance. And on the flats, I'm arguing, the importance of weight is decisively negligeable. I recently heard that guy from Silca say how they would experiment with loading up to five-ten kgs on a track bike in a simulated hour record attempt and that it literally made seconds of a difference. And it always seems to be the case that the speed benefits of aero gear always beat the weight penalty associated with that equipment in all other cases than perhaps extended climbing in steeper terrain.
What I'm getting at is this: Shouldn't most of us focus on the relation between our power output and (something like) aerodynamics loooong before we start to think about shredding those last five kgs? I myself have been waking up to the importance of CDA and my position on the bike, and among all my riding buddies and among racers in the amateur ranks that I come across, it's not rare that I see really fit, strong folks with great power outputs and good position on the bike easily ride away from more slender riders with equally great power but a more upright position. I realize that this is anecdotal, but I heard that Fuglsang started eating way more the year he won Liege. So my own best guess would be that for newer riders, maybe focusing on position and power output would be less taxing and more achievable than adding in a strict diet, if you are a new rider having to work out everything. And my bonus guess would be that those last five kgs would not mean anything of real importance in terms of results for a guy like this unless the goal is a very climby course.
So my question is: Isn't it a bit unnecessary to be so interested in power to weight unless we were all strictly climbers or had most other aspects dialed in already? Do you see any other competing assessments for fitness other than watts/kg?
Thanks from Mads
Hi, the power to weight is extremely important because almost all routes or events have hills. All road cycling races are hilly, at least 90-95% of them. Once you get to the hill in race you will get dropped even if trying the hardest. Heavier person wastes much more calories, glycogen and creates more heat, but the body is not twice bigger and better at heat dissipation. So in every case where route includes gradients of 3 and more - the lighter rider will be superior. Also think about slipstream, to lighter rider easier to keep up on straights or downhill because of slipstream. To run away at 50kph to accelerate to 60kph you need extra 300 watts, it's impossible, but he can add 50 in slipstream and use it. On the uphills heavy riders doesn't get any privilege of slipstream or assistance. So this is the reason why w/kg is most priority. P.s. I am 95kg, have been in local racing team half year and suffered a lot, since most of their rides are Uphills and average weight 68-70
That was cool. I learned stuff. Thanks JC.
Great video, so much to learn from your commenting and explanations!
I was dreaming to get 300 ftp, going from 225(2.35w/kg) and with much training stuck at the 250 ftp plateau. The only thing that constantly progressed is how long and easy I could sustain the efforts and the recovery from each effort was much faster. So I still looking at people reaching 350-380 like - wow, this is so cosmic and so much work and genetics were put through the years of training 🤗
Weirdly I've always been able to set personal bests on climbs two days after a very long endurance day with a complete rest day in between.
Very insightful Coach Coyle 🙏
Took me 5 years to double my ftp, although that meant going from a 14 year old with a 170w ftp at 55kg to 65kg with a 340w ftp.
turns out he actually recently achieved 2x his FTP goal. 411watts on the 20 minute test.
I recently just got started focusing on increasing my performance on the bike and I must say when I saw that video it was hard to believe. I think chasing Watts/KG BW ratio is better rather than chasing a arbitrary number..
I'm not the smartest person in the world. Well maybe second smartest Do you know the meaning of arbitrary?
Your weight is going to fluctuate more than a power number.
It's arbitrary when your weight is changing instead of looking at a more stable number which would be wattage.
But again, like you said you're a beginner so I understand.
Just to let you know, I am the first person to ever use structured training in cycling using intervals. Im the inventor of this.
The Gods only gift Greeks with knowledge. Not Australians.
I spoke to Chris and gave him some of my advice. Trying to make him understand that training doesn't have to be that hard.
Both is possible, but doubleing your watts ftp is much harder if you start on a solid fitness level already (for example 200watts ftp for 80kg rider)
Thanks Jesse, I learned quite a lot from this video, as it relates to my journey es well.
According to hes video updates, he actually made it. Which makes me think those numbers was not unfamiliar for him, he had just had a break a gotten out of shape.
Love this content! I'd love for you to dissect my FTP video, saying what I did/said wrong, etc.
Haha! you just crossed my mind. How is it?
Even with doping protocol it would be crazy to get from zero to 380w haha
when I have the time, I love driving away from home (Melbourne) to the hills for a ride alone
@14:06 I've seen studies that show if you are over weight for most of your life your body takes that as the "normal" and will try yo get back to it. So if you get your body used to being at a lower weight it starts to recognize that as "normal" - SO I can understand what he is trying to say
having been on a similar weight loss to semi fast cyclist, i think he means it might take a year for the brain to realize that the bmr has decreased. it took a year for me to lose a lot of the hunger i had initially
That seems awfully long. I lost a good 7kg for cycling and yes it took some periods of eating undercaloric and feeling hungry, but it was over after a couple of months tops.
@@messi9991 i think it is closer 35 kg for us though, which is quite different
@@tyler5246 but fat doesn't require that many calories to maintain, the hunger you feel is actually eating undercaloric in order to lose the weight. Once you lost it, and maintain weight, you should not feel hungry for a year. The amount of weight you lost does not matter.
How do you keep your FTP numbers when going downhill 8 always spin out
Ethan looks quite a big boned muscular guy and at 6ft3 he looks around 90kg's at least? So that would mean a 4.26w/kg @ 90kg to reach 384watts. But then being a lightweight I don't really understand the physiology of big riders or how common or achievable that is?
Love these videos 👊
Coyle for someone around 3.5WKG how many hours a week of training to get to 4wkg should we expect?
“I just LOVE riding bikes”
-“And that’s a problem!”
😂
You elaborated it well but that’s hilarious without context.
Jesse is doing him dirty with those mid-video pauses
Nils Van der Poel reached over 400 W ftp with 2 rest days :) :)
Doubling W/kg is fairly doable depending on weight loss potential. He doesn’t seem significantly overweight, however from personal experience, I more or less doubled W/kg in my first year from 170w @ 83kg to 266w @ 66kg, where I feel 4W/kg while a decently hard achievement, very doable with consistent training, once you build up to 10 hrs/week after a few months.
But then took me another 4-5 years to get to 325w, and I feel i have somewhat reasonable genetics, so even then, getting to 380w for him would still take years, even with world-class genetics. Even the pro’s have 10 years+ in their legs, as they usually start young or come from a different sporting background.
Yep, if your base Fitness is low ( for me it was 160 watts even) it’s possible to double it, if you start at 200 or higher that will be difficult
It's pretty simple Jesse... If he said increase my ftp by 30%...who's going to click on that!! Double ftp.. Now ya talking. I'm going to go for triple the subs.. I mean ftp lol
I managed to from 2.7 w/kg to 4 w/kg ftp in 1 year at age 37. I'll maybe be able to up this to 4.5 w/kg in the next year. Above that I would probably need to quit my job to get enough training in and still not sure if I would have the necessary vo2max to get there....
Would love your thoughts or input on tristantakesvideo his testosterone results from a training camp , your normally brutally honest
I appreciate you mentioning the hassle and pitfalls of consistently driving to riding destinations, something that is all too common here in the US. Every weekend guys get together to ride somewhere, but often the meet point is 45min away - your day is toast after that. I'm not a fan of dedicating the entirety of a weekend day for a single ride, and as you said, that's not sustainable.
This is again exactly those kinds of videos that I'm looking for and that are lacking. Actual applicable analysis and not just theory that isn't put in the practice of actually riding. Like at 6:00 you can get to 240W by just intensity but beyond it you need volume. Simple statement of applying theory into practice so I get a picture of what it is.
The only thing I’d disagree with is that driving to ride is stressful. When you live in the city, it’s actually really nice to drive out towards cool places to ride your bike. it’d probably be more stressful to ride in the city with cars and traffic.
Hii, I started training last year and my ftp peaked at 265w (4.2w/kg) would it be possible to peak at 310w (5w/kg) this year? Is this a realistic goal?
Hi Jesse!
What about increasing power specifically for cycling is so hard? For example, if you took an average guy who could back squat 100kg, with training in a year he could easily lift 150kg and would likely land in 170-175kg territory. If you could increase your FTP by 50-75% (granted not 100%), most people would be elated. That being said, I've heard many times people talk about increasing FTP by 20-30w as being really hard and you'd want to cross off other things first ex:body position, aero suite, aero helmet, wheels, tires etc. Is the FTP on a bike hard because most cyclists don't cross train enough into a gym to really grow strength or is there something else going on that I (most likely) just don't understand. For reference, I'm pretty new to cycling so I very well might not understand :P
Increasing FTP has nothing to do with cross training in the gym. Aerobic fitness increase is slower for many reasons. There is less capacity to increase, e.g. average healthy adults FTP can only go up maybe ~100% from baseline. Compare that to other physical aspects like strength, with much less time commitment could see 150%-200% improvement. It just is what it is. There are other physical processes that increase way faster even than strength increases. Think about how fast your hair grows. It's just dependant on what the biology of the tissue (muscle, blood, tendons, etc) is that needs to adapt to get the resulting fitness increase.
thanks jesse
Everyone wants a FTP of 400 until you find out it’s literally takes all the joy away from cycling.
Only people who weigh 77kg as that would give you a 5w/k ftp which is the number that matter. Not your actual ftp number. Less weight. Less watts and vise versa 👌👌
@@thediabeticcyclist4936 As a +40 yo cyclist. The goal of 4watts per kg (75kg/300ftp) alluded me.
@@thediabeticcyclist4936 a lot of cycling is happening on flatter areas and rolling terrain, not just 7%+ hills so even if you weight 85kg but have a 400w FTP you'd be an absolute beast. Also Watts per kilo gets consistent and useful only on around 5% and more climbs, for example, 65kg rider who's pushing 5w/kg (325w) up 4% climb is going to be slower than a 80kg guy who's also pushing 5w/kg (400w).
People always want to downgrade the importance of RAW power when in reality Watts/kg only matters in the TDF mountain stages and mabye for someone who's racing in a place like Andorra.
@@adamsims6490 depends on the events and the country / local scene.. but anything north of 4w/kg is gonna be fine for Masters riders.
That wierd mentality only cycling attracts. If I just train, I too can be an olympic cyclist...
If he had the potential for 380, he would already be an athlete. He would have been noticed in school, been on a track team or football or swimming or like Jesse rowing.
It's very rare to get through life with those genetics and not notice you can beat your mates untrained in a sprint to the shops.
380 is no dice. Even over 300 is a big goal. Go for small steps in a big journey. Aim to finish with the fast bunch in a year, forget ftp.
Ethan is an ex collegiate athlete….
It's not unrealistic for him to get up to 380 eventually. I'm the same size as this guy and 335 watts is where I get with 4-6 months of training.
@@KneekoMTB curious, what was his sport?
It don't matter even if you were an athlete. It helps up to a point.
Endurance sports are not for everyone.
I have figured out how to make it easy for everyone.
And this is what I explained to Jeff when he was injured.
I gave him the blueprint on how to increase your FTP.
He went ahead and deleted those comments weeks later creating a video exactly on what I told him.
I don't lie it's not in my nature.
Let him say I am a liar.
Losing that amount would be insane let alone gain that amount from never being there before
If it's possible to get at 380 watts FTP with 2 rest days in a week.What will your reaction be ?:))
Good luck to Jesse
I guess for winning a crit sprint and anaerobic capacity should be more of a factor. Like 10w/kg for a minute is going to be more use than an extra bit of FTP so long as you have enough to sit in the wheels.
No, having an engine is just as important, bearing in mind that as your FTP increases sp does your % Vo2 max etc. 500 watt repeats are much easier from an FTP of 300 watts than they are from 250 watts bearing in mind you have to have enought left in the tank to contest a sprint. Just hanging on to wheels waiting for a bunch kick considerably limits your ability to ride the race, it means you need a number of things to go your way to put you in a position to compete for a sprint finish, not always easy to do as a solo rider. If there's a break for example it largely means unless someone bridges and you can follow and get a free ride your definitely not winning......any way there's a myriad of reasons as to why FTP is important for crit racing
Great video
Nor Cal based cyclist here. Very high IQ/kg analysis 🧠👏🏻 One of our strongest local time trial riders just tested his FTP at 335w as part of a 50 min 40km ITT that he then extended to an hour. Guessing he weighs around 75 kgs. 380 is an absurd pipe dream. I doubt Jeff of Nor Cal has ever had that FTP (he is primarily a sprinter).
280 is what I think he'll get to. I wish him the best. Also, here in the US most cyclists drive to get to our rides. 1-2 hour drives are common.
I was thinking the exact number👍
I don’t drive to get to my rides
That is not common at all.
I’d be stoked with 280! 😂
in the states drivers will kill you and not even care at all. driving somewhere safe is just part of cycling in fly over states.
Sorry but what is Cat 1 level fitness ? (Cool video btw)
Very roughly if you can do 4.5-4.7 w/kg for an hour, you'd be good enough to be pack fill in most cat 1 races
Take a look at his newest vid with the updated FTP.
How long does it take from 260FTP to 300FTP？ 38Y 80KG😘
September I was 90kg - 270w. 3w per kg
Jan I was 86kg - 306w. 3.5w per kg
Today I’m around 82kg and due a retest but I think I’ve gained another 10 or so watts 🤞🏻
For reference, I’m 36, not tracking calories, eating what I want, fuelling my sessions and doing 8-12 hours a week. not sure if that’s good, bad, or average but I’m going in the right direction 😅
thanks for interval icu
Ethan has done a great job shredding the weight that's my biggest problem I've got the power 300+ FTP but the weight is proving to be the problem.
This video didn't age well. My guy just did 411w for 19mins. So he did infact doubled his FTP in
What is your toughts about lactate measuring devices?
Are they worth the money?
RE Your comment that you wouldn’t recommend an FTP test every 5 weeks. It’s too stressful, no point and there are better workouts. What do you prescribe for an easy week in general and what workout instead of an FTP test? Thanks! Great content as usual.
I don't know many riders who need a whole easy week, unless it's a full training break. For a regular recovery period after a good 3-5 weeks of training, most riders will be good to go after 3-5 days of no intensity, likely 2 full rest days in there as well.
There's no workout to replace an FTP test, just whatever intense workouts the rider was doing regularly as part of normal training in the weeks before
@@nerocoaching ok I’ll try that out. Thanks.
Update: He now has an FTP of 334w and won his first Crit (Cat5), 2nd in the Cat4 race on the same day and can pop a 1500w sprint. How cool is that.
Big improvement, I did an update video on it, see recent uploads
@@nerocoaching Just watched it, awesome analysis. Just subscribed too
@@rossman450 thanks mate
"Its not achievable" 😂
never say "never say never"😂
Now we need another one video where someone will reacts on a cycling coach reaction… 😆
He did get to 380 watts as far as I know.
Zone 2 is life
Which zone is death
@@savagepro9060 5
In terms of the one rest day a week, I'm currently doing 4 days per week on the trainer, new cyclist, just started structured training last April. Was planning to increase my volume of structured training this year to 6h/wk or greater but I get the impression that is still not enough volume. My concern is moving to only 2 days or 1 day off per week would lead me less recovered for intensity sessions as even with Z2 it is building some fatigue. Should the volume be prioritized over intensity and I should reach for getting 8+ hours a week even if it means I have less capacity for SS, Threshold, VO2 sessions?
Definitely volume over intensity. Especially when you're starting out
Look at EJ training camp. Thats him now 1-2 years after. He def in that 1%.
What is the likelihood he’ll be demotivated once he sees slow progress or plateaus? Definitely needs to be more realistic
I have spent the last five years trying to get to like 300 at 75... (though I started at like 124 kg...)
(actually, your recent video about your weight loss and training block sent me in a really good direction lately...)
I was 200 lbs and 246 watts on January 1, I'm down to 188 lbs now at 285 watts, should be at least 300 by June. You can easily get to 300 if you put in some structured training.
@@HydeMyJekyll I have been up to 300 watts, the problem has been getting my weight down below 90 kg... I might actually have an easier time getting to 330 at 80 kg.
I disagree with the notion that unrealistic goals aren't useful. Sure, some people respond poorly, but many people respond well.
I never reach my end goal but I get so much further striving for it than I otherwise would. You obviously still need micro step goals to pave the way there. I used to have the goal of getting a medal at world's in swimming. It got me to a few national finals. I broke my neck last year, and set myself a goal of completing an Iron man 8 months later to get me back in shape. It wasn't pretty, (12 hours) but I did it.
10:09 this pause cracked me up
I think the ‘double my ftp’ is probably just about giving it a title… Saying ‘getting to 340w in a year,’ means not a lot so may not get the views. Listening to him he realise that to double will not happen..
IF he went full for those 190watts, gaining 100watts to 290 is a nice goal, double is just not happening for anyone, unless you didnt go all out
There are a lot of people in that area that are pretty good cyclists, there are also a lot of pretty funny attitudes and sly thinkers, don't put it past someone who wasn't well known to sandbag a goal like this to get more attention than they every would have otherwise; he could have been well trained, gained a bunch of weight on purpose for said goal, sandbagged an ftp test, and seem like he has increased his fitness an impossible level by not sandbagging and returning to his original physique in the end. My guess is he sandbagged from the performances he put out at said ftp, he averaged almost 20mph for 3 hours with a sub 200w ftp the day after a 4.5 hour ride at near the same clip, lol.
Nice constructive criticism. Good analysis. Just wish old mate didn't eat someone else's ribs to improve his own 😊
He almost did double his FTP! 377 if I'm not mistaking... (after a year)
Training is all about quality over quantity. Get the quality wrong an you can ride until the cows come home and it makes no difference. With top tier genetics, training, nutrition, and drive it takes 3-4 years to reach pro level watts. 12 months, just ain't happening. And dude, zone 2 is the magic. You figure out how on your own as it differs by genetics. I'm at 4.6 watts/kg 13 months in and gains are reducing, peak goal is 5.5watts/kg
Apparently the guy got from 185 to 320 in 7 months. It looks to be possible to literally double it in like 15 months
Did he really have 185w ftp to start with? Seems really low
i think his ftp is 340 now
damn dude you're gonna have to eat this whole video
why?
Jesse, go check out the recent NorCal video. Looks like Jeff took the novice very close to 2x FTP… they are alleging
In addition, your content is rad. Please keep it up !
Yep he's progressing well, huge improvement. But there's a massive way to go to get to double. He's at ~330w now (4 w/kg), for the goal of double needs to get to over 380w. People raising eyebrows seem to forget he's ~82kg, if you take the w/kg it puts it in perspective
Won’t get to 380 in a year?
Will take 3 - 4 years?
How well did this statement age?
i guess 300watts at 60kg aint bad for a 48 year old. the odds of improving on it seam slim tho
FTP every 5 weeks - If he's on a training plan that is longer than 5 weeks and is incrementally overloading, taking an FTP every 5 weeks is just plain wrong. The increasing load over the period of the plan, combined with him increasing his FTP totally skews the plan - he'll end up with training sessions that are too hard for him to complete. Also, why do folks treat FTP as some sort of measure for fitness, when it should only be used calibrate you training sessions?
He is gonna really struggle with the diet, I recall watching that vlog on NorCal2 and when I saw that sandwich I thought. Nah mate! Cheese! wtf.
Sounds like excellent coaching. A less excellent coach would call Ethan a knucklehead 👍