well 12 step programs sometimes work for some people but there is no science behind it that will contribute to long term sobriety for all alcoholics, it's hit or miss depending on many factors. I think we all need to be honest about this.
There's actually a lot of research showing the efficacy of 12-step programs. However, you are correct. It's not 100% for ALL people.But then again, nothing is 100% for ALL people. There are many pathways to recovery. 12-step is just one of them.
@@PutTheShovelDown I am not aware of the research showing the efficacy of a.a, from what i had heard it was damn near impossible to do any research on it at all due to aa not keeping records on numbers of any kind. From my own experience of 30 years in aa though (thats a lot) I would on the liberal side put it;s effectiveness at maybe around 30% for long term sobriety and even then a lot of cases I would not call the spiritual experience variety like it claims if you do the 12 steps....................it more had to do with other factors.
@@PutTheShovelDown @ Brian Campbell I think you are both correct to a certain degree. Lots of these concepts you mention (if not all) in the video have been around way before 12 steps. There are many aspects of the 12-step programs or other self-help programs that have some basis in science but are not caused by or derived from AA's concepts itself. Rather, these groups merely compiled these concepts into easily digestible programs for people. Concepts such as human connectedness, gratitude, and helping others are great for anyone's general well being even beyond those who struggle with addictive issues as it gives meaning and purpose. In return, it allows those who struggle with issues to know that others can care for you and instill trust despite our pasts. Some will argue these concepts were around way way before self-help groups. I think Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob were onto something and just missed the mark when they thought the "power" of the 12 steps comes from the steps themselves but more from the group and being able to connect with another individual who has had similar experiences. Subsequently this gives individual's new purpose in recovery. Such individuals can help others "find light in the dark." Brian is also correct to say there are relatively few "sound" research studies (as we refer to them in quantitative and qualitative research) to demonstrate that efficacy of the program is "actually" linked to 12 step facilitation itself rather than other confounding variables. Of course, studies claim to be relevant, but anyone with a trained eye for research can see the limitations. Moreover, there are other qualms some may have with 12 step programs, such as the notion of "powerlessness" or "higher power," which has little to do with evidence-based interventions or science based concepts. However, this is why they are called self-help programs. This is not to say that these programs should not be used. My personal thought is if it works to keep you safe, healthy, and sober then do it! I am new to your channel and you have gained a subscriber. I doubt I will be leaving huge paragraphs such as this very much but I did enjoy the video and will be watching more.
There’s a reason celebrate recovery is the best 12 step program . It’s because bill Wilson got sober in the Oxford group ( a Christian evangelical group he left after copping dome resentments ) then he “formulated AA “ Did Wilson invent groups , the Bible , Jesus ? Or did he use them I. The Oxford group to get sober ? Give Jesus the credit he deserves and acknowledge him as lord and savior like it says i. The Bible . Stop hiding behind the big book and get out the Bible and get the story right from the source . aA might get you sober but won’t get you into heaven .accept Jesus as your lord and savior and ask him to forgive your sins and give your life to Him He’s the real deal No one else ! Ask god to reveal himself and find real freedom through Christ ! Stop the AA preaching and evangelizing about AA Jesus is the one
well 12 step programs sometimes work for some people but there is no science behind it that will contribute to long term sobriety for all alcoholics, it's hit or miss depending on many factors. I think we all need to be honest about this.
There's actually a lot of research showing the efficacy of 12-step programs. However, you are correct. It's not 100% for ALL people.But then again, nothing is 100% for ALL people. There are many pathways to recovery. 12-step is just one of them.
@@PutTheShovelDown I am not aware of the research showing the efficacy of a.a, from what i had heard it was damn near impossible to do any research on it at all due to aa not keeping records on numbers of any kind. From my own experience of 30 years in aa though (thats a lot) I would on the liberal side put it;s effectiveness at maybe around 30% for long term sobriety and even then a lot of cases I would not call the spiritual experience variety like it claims if you do the 12 steps....................it more had to do with other factors.
worked great for this guy
@@PutTheShovelDown @ Brian Campbell
I think you are both correct to a certain degree. Lots of these concepts you mention (if not all) in the video have been around way before 12 steps. There are many aspects of the 12-step programs or other self-help programs that have some basis in science but are not caused by or derived from AA's concepts itself. Rather, these groups merely compiled these concepts into easily digestible programs for people. Concepts such as human connectedness, gratitude, and helping others are great for anyone's general well being even beyond those who struggle with addictive issues as it gives meaning and purpose. In return, it allows those who struggle with issues to know that others can care for you and instill trust despite our pasts. Some will argue these concepts were around way way before self-help groups. I think Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob were onto something and just missed the mark when they thought the "power" of the 12 steps comes from the steps themselves but more from the group and being able to connect with another individual who has had similar experiences. Subsequently this gives individual's new purpose in recovery. Such individuals can help others "find light in the dark." Brian is also correct to say there are relatively few "sound" research studies (as we refer to them in quantitative and qualitative research) to demonstrate that efficacy of the program is "actually" linked to 12 step facilitation itself rather than other confounding variables. Of course, studies claim to be relevant, but anyone with a trained eye for research can see the limitations. Moreover, there are other qualms some may have with 12 step programs, such as the notion of "powerlessness" or "higher power," which has little to do with evidence-based interventions or science based concepts. However, this is why they are called self-help programs. This is not to say that these programs should not be used. My personal thought is if it works to keep you safe, healthy, and sober then do it! I am new to your channel and you have gained a subscriber. I doubt I will be leaving huge paragraphs such as this very much but I did enjoy the video and will be watching more.
There’s a reason celebrate recovery is the best 12 step program . It’s because bill Wilson got sober in the Oxford group ( a Christian evangelical group he left after copping dome resentments ) then he “formulated AA “
Did Wilson invent groups , the Bible , Jesus ? Or did he use them I. The Oxford group to get sober ?
Give Jesus the credit he deserves and acknowledge him as lord and savior like it says i. The Bible . Stop hiding behind the big book and get out the Bible and get the story right from the source . aA might get you sober but won’t get you into heaven .accept Jesus as your lord and savior and ask him to forgive your sins and give your life to Him
He’s the real deal
No one else !
Ask god to reveal himself and find real freedom through Christ !
Stop the AA preaching and evangelizing about AA
Jesus is the one
where you from girl
Robert Douglas Isn’t it obvious... Tennessee of course 😂
@@PutTheShovelDown east or west middle
Robert Douglas West. Tiny town about half way between Nashville and Memphis.