+Nico Meier Yeah flying for one hour is great. Where I am we have to take a minimum of 45 mins of reserve fuel, so in this aircraft I'd get one circuit in.
+duckgoesmooo You do realize that this is the beginning of a new era and that development - especially for ways of storing electric energy - is just beginning?
+Nico Meier No, I think "Duck" wanted them to make an Electric 747, that can carry 400 Passengers across the Atlantic in 2 hours. Or else, Electric Planes are just something to make fun of!
Give some hard evidence that the price of battery maintenance is even close to Piston or i'll just assume your one of those anti-new technology people.
I wonder how difficult would be to fly a Cessna 172 after learning how to fly on this plane. There are a lot more moving parts on a traditional engine and checklists must be very different.
Major League - That idea is pure fiction from people who have no clue what they are talking about. Here are some lifespan statistics on today's Lithium Ion batteries. They will last tens of thousands of hours, while a piston engine needs to be completely overhauled every 2000 hours. blog.evandmore.com/lets-talk-about-the-panasonic-ncr18650b
@MajorLeague The video states that battery swaps take a matter of minutes. Presumably, the batteries aren't super cheap, but I'd wager it'd be a schools interest to have two or more sets of batteries. I'd wager that supplies would do a battery lease or swap scheme, where you simply trade in your older batteries for new ones. My concern is 10+ years from now when E power really starts to cut into IC/oil industry. E power suddenly won't be as cheap when there are more ways to tax us for it.
They're probably right, in the case of cars, as most people don't need to be able to use them all the time. For a trainer to make economic sense for the operator, it needs to be able to run all day.
Here in Western Canada I might make a trip to see my sister in Montana and it's 9 hrs one way. Sometimes we go see family in Salt Lake Utah which is 18 hr one way. The only electric car system to go the whole way in the same way we're accustomed would be one that switches out batteries on the way.
James Coleman Dude, you are missing the obvious: you wanna spend 9-18 hours in a seat that small, in a cockpit that tiny? Even with battery swap it's the wrong tool. Kinda like saying you don't want a Vespa scooter because of those 9 and 18 hour road-trips.
If they could put the batteries in the wings this would be ideal, as of now there is hardly any luggage space. Flew in this airplane this spring, can tell you it is an incredible leap forward in electric aircraft. We flew with no headset and it was more then okay. Amazing instant thrust with throttle. Once they have some range this will be my next aircraft. Keep on innovating Pipistrel!
+Darryl Zubot I'd love to see a system like this augmented with a microturbine turning a high-speed alternator to provide power. 10 gallons of Kerosene would keep it running for hours.
bill corbett - Electric heating seems as a logical step here. Why have electric plane with fuel consuming APU? Maybe it could be jet-electrical but that wouldn't cut the fuel cost.
But $2 is pretty expensive. So they've now created a solar trailer for their G4 glider. You put the glider inside of the trailer, or next to it, and it recharges the glider for free. It takes about 10 hours for solar recharge, so you need to charge it one day, then fly another. But hey, you don't have time to glide every day anyway.
Every comment on EVs ever: -"But it will never be mainstream" -"But there is no infrastructure" -"But the electricity itself isn't green" -"But you can't recycle the batteries" -"But the batteries lose their charge" -"But thorium" -"But hydrogen" this is the best we got. If you have no faith in technology development cycles or you just can't stand a technology that's in its infancy then keep pumping that kerosene, leave this to the early adopters, keep repeating those seven things above like a mantra and do your best never to change anything in the world. And for god's sake, don't have any sort of vision, that would be mad!
That's green dreaming all over again. Reality sees no spectacular improvement in battery density and or chemistry in the last 20 years and the coming decades.. Hybrids drives might be a better solution. Combining the best of ICE and electric.
Flex maybe you reality hasn't seen any improvement, hell my dad still can't believe a computer can give him real cash just by putting in some numbers... Some people just get stuck in the past and that is all they will ever comprehend.
No density improvement? You anti-green idiots are just unbelievable... Renault Zoe 5 years ago: 24kwH... Renault Zoe now: 41kwH... same size of the battery, same car and THAT is why electric is the future, YOU are simply an ignorant and why WE are ALREADY laughing at you denialists with your blinders on.
There are good applications for electric, and there are less-good applications for electric. There is not a universal solution for everything, nor should anyone speak in those terms. It's good to experiment and explore what works and what doesn't. Fact is that as of right now, batteries simply don't offer the same energy density of fossil fuels, and that will be a major application constraint for the foreseeable future. They make it up in lower cost of operation, but cost isn't everything if your application requires endurance -- something that is paramount for most vehicles. Airplanes in particular live and die by energy density and endurance, which makes electrical power a very tricky proposition. Maybe at some point they'll crack the problem, and create a system with batteries light and dense enough to provide range comparable to an average GA aircraft. We're not there yet though, far from it.
Started flying the pipistrel alpha trainer today.... if you get the chance to do your training on these DO IT. All I’ve flown is Cessna but upon take off I immediately fell in love!
this thing is perfect for flight schools, hell you could even let a student do his/hers first short nav in it. There's a field near my homebase about 20 minutes flying for instance, this little thing would be perfect for that.
So cool. That prop literally looks like a standard slow-fly prop on a LiPo powered rc plane. Man, electric is the way to go for fixed wing. Future is electric.
bauhaus. this plane is literally worthless for any GA uses. you cant even make it from one airport to a neighboring airport reliably. a headwind some time in the pattern and just one goaround takes up a large portion of your flight time. it may well make a good trainer with reduced fuel and maint costs, but a school would have to invest in a tin of chargers and change out packs several times a day to get decent flight time and thats a massive upfront investment. a decent enclosed ultralight has similar flight times and only takes moments to refuel. it may take $15 in gas to refuel an ultralight opposed to $2 in electricity but convenience and flight time are very much worth it. cool plane tho,
You do realize that we have the next billion years of innovation to go through, correct? This is a prototype, and the way they are advertising it, its a partial replacement for something like an ultralight or Cub where the most you will be doing is flying patterns and hopping around the city.
C Smith Prop design has a very interesting history in both boats and planes. The blades on the prop on the ship Great Britain kept falling of and was hopelessly inefficient luckily they also had sail.
This electrical aircraft is destined to be the future choice for light aircraft design and power propulsion. An excellent job by the company Pipistrel, and a tribute to their innovation and ingenuity--- well done guys!!!!
Not necessarily, the battery banks will be a fortune, and they will need to be replaced eventually (probably before a 2200hr overhaul on a traditional engine), The key is all around battery cost what do the batteries do to the original purchase price? Then the long term maintenance/replacement cycle. Kind of like electric cars super expensive to buy, inexpensive to use, hugely expensive to maintain...
@@tjonessc "Kind of like electric cars super expensive to buy, inexpensive to use, hugely expensive to maintain" None of which is true other than use expense. EVs are incredibly cheap, have almost no moving parts and therefore almost never need any sort of maintenance. Most EV owners have never had to pay for maintenance the entire time of their ownership. I know countless Model S owners that haven't put a single penny into their cars for 5+ years other than the cost of charging the battery, and drive their car everyday. Same with Model 3, still have never heard a single case of anyone having to pay any money for maintenance.
@@tjonessc Oh and battery banks never really have to be replaced, even with heavy usage from modern batteries 7 years ago. There is something seriously wrong from the manufacture if your battery needs to be replaced with the 15 year life-span coverage. Please stop spewing false information and start actually doing the research on modern EVs.
@@tjonessc I'm willing to wager that the unit cost of the batteries might be cheaper than the unit cost of the engine overhaul. Not to mention the additional factors of oil, belts, and fuel. As for the cycle count of the batteries, a typical cell is rated for about 500 to 1000 cycles. Depending on the amount of flying and the number of hot-swappable batteries on standby the replacement cycle for the units may be extended to a scale similar to traditional piston engines.
Worrying about non renewable waste from failed or dead batteries seems a bit of a cheap argument to criticize something as new as electric planes are, especially when compared to the pollution created by engines in general which, surely, donesn't do any better. Electricity will be the future of aviation, up to a certain extent, and hopefully won't be much longher to wait!
+Riccardo Granato New generation lithium-ion batteries are 100% recyclable. Where the older generation had lead and acid, lithium batteries have salt based fluids. And besides that, I think it's funny that people suddenly begin to worry about a new technologies toxicity, while at the same time using oil, coal and nuclear, which is no way near clean or recyclable.
+EpiDemic117 Yeah, but those are multi-million dollar engines on large commercial airliners. The vast majority of light, general-aviation aircraft still use incredibly inefficient piston engines that burn leaded fuel.
It's nice to have these kinds of vehicles in place for when battery capacity improves. Also impressive they are doing this kind of work in eastern europe. All good wishes!
I read about this in the EAA magazine "Sport Aviation". The article was very positive, citing its low cost as a basic trainer for learning to fly pattern work; that is, takeoffs, airport pattern flying, and descent and landings.
Kid you are a helluvayoungman . You are like a old time hard working person. I am 71 yrs old and I hope to hell there are a lot more like you . My 2 boys started working very young and have continued to do so , so I know there are at least 3 of you to keep civilization goinhg.. I believe if more people knew of your genus with your hands you could write your own ticket. Like I tell my boys dream big work hard and everything will be fine . Osgood luck and GOD BLESS Jim
This is a wonderful aircraft for flight schools! I would still recommend some hours in a Cessna though. That way the students are used to both situations. Pipistrel has the right idea!
Justin Clark No I haven't, I live on a small island and we're looking to drop oil and their messy products altogether. So no I haven't seen pollution the likes of the US or China, so I have no experience with that, living in the Caribbean we don't know such. Maybe one day it'll show itself.
***** It's quite nice a car, more and more people are buying them where I live in Barbados. you're not purchasing oil based products for fuel, secondly it's a great drive, nice bhp and torque. Overall, not sure I'll buy another oil based product vehicle again.
How much will it cost? How much fuel would have been consumed if it had aviation fuel instead? Glad to see things going this direction... the fact there is so much less moving parts for maintenance and fuel is extremely low cost... this makes the initial purchase price the last question... thanks
Only practical all elrectric trainer that I know of! Should design a light weight compact hybrid for cross country training/trips! Would not take much and would still be extremely economical!!! Kudos to the Team at Pipistrel!!!
Including a rough guesstimate on the cost of the battery pack ( a consumable resource), the cost per flight is probably around 15-2 Euros per flight. Still, quite inexpensive considering the lack of required maintenance.
Would this be considered a Light Sport Airplane? I don't know much about airplanes but i do know the little ones crash way more than the bigger ones. By bigger I mean planes like Cessna, not a 747.
Is a pusher prop not as viable for an electric aircraft? Wouldn't that help with noise fatigue and afford the pilot an unobstructed forward view? Something like Burt Rutan's long ez?
Because same as my electric car... the panels wouldn't pay for their own weight. People don't quite understand the amount of power in modern vehicle lithium ion batteries. The 17kWh pack in the Alpha Electro, like the 22kWh pack in my car would power a typical four bedroom house for a day or two. To continuously feed the 10kW charger for this aircraft you'd pretty much have to deploy solar panels covering the entirety of the hangers roof. Big things are coming in terms of pack capacity, it pretty much grows at 7-8% a year. Three years after my car launched the new model is coming with a 57% larger pack in the same size and weight. In ~7-8 years it will be cheaper to produce 30kWh class electric cars than than petrol equivalents. My next EV which I'm buying in the next six months will have a 60kWh pack that would power my home for two weeks, my home is fairly energy efficient but still....
cros13 Sure, that occurred to me. Of course if the panels were part of the wing structure and used the latest lightweight tech - I recall seeing paint-on solar panels on some popular science website a couple of years ago - then it might be feasible. It also occurs to me that an electric aircraft with solar panels on the wings could land anywhere and recharge. Wishful thinking, perhaps.
cros13 This is what I was thinking of regarding paint on/spray on solar www.engadget.com/2014/08/03/spray-painted-solar-cells/ I have no idea how far along this tech is. Every so often I read about a breakthough in solar and/or battery tech and then never hear of it again
It's not the future, it can be the present. There is only one moving component. I just don't understand why they need to keep the pirate in the loop 2:10?
In case your comment isn't Irony, he said: "keeping the pilot in the loop". This means that the pilot is kept in the control loop for that particular system by informing him over the systems status and therefore enabling him to perform corrections.
Can the propellers be wired to recharge the batteries in flight, so their energy is recycled, rather than spent only? That would give the plane greater distance potential, which is only logical.
Designers such as Tine' Tomazic are indeed a tribute to modern and innovative aircraft design technology. Under his leadership, it is apparent that Pipistrel will soon take a lead in modern light aircraft production due to excellent performance of their aircraft both in economy efficiency as well as flight performance. Well done Pipistrel!!!
How can the batteries charge so quickly? Is it the type of battery, or type of charger that make such quick charging possible? And does quick charge compromise the potential number of charges? The quick swap battery management system is the only way to go (if you have enough battery packs). It's dealing with the short battery life that is inherent with battery power. It's living with it, instead of trying to wait for better battery tech to improve. What if it doesn't for a long time? Quick swap!
I've asked the same question over in the DA40 NG video: Why not marry a small diesel turbine APU to generate power for the motor to extend range and avoid the complexity of a diesel piston engine with a short TBO?
Too much weight and would entirely go against the point of the product which aims to move to full EV, something all forms of transportation are doing right now.
Great to see aircraft going electric now too. Also, nicely objective review from a traditionally oil-based industry - for instance matching the range to an appropriate use i.e. training. EV owners are tired of the automotive industry's incessant bashing of electric cars because they would do 500 miles on a single charge yet.
While I do accept that the propeller is efficient when acting as a propeller, I find it hard to accept that it is also efficient when acting as a wind turbine( 3:11) as the aerofoil section can never fit both the propeller and the turbine . Still one doe get some energy back , but not so efficient as a generator, but as a brake to increase the rate of sink , it will be useful
Is there a fire suppression system built into the "BMS"? Seeing so many cells so tightly packed makes me a little nervous. Perhaps mistakenly so... What do you guys think?
+AdrianDotis I thought that too until i started flying electric rc planes and quads... lipo fires pack can a punch in for their small size... and these are much much larger.. i dont know how you monitor multiple 600 cell packs either! particularly when one bad one can take them all out.
+d1fballplayer I would think that with electric cars, driving around wiht thousends of Li-Ion cells, this has been tackled already, or have youever read something about a Tesla that burnt down due to en electric fire? I haven't.
Agreed. Honestly, that translates in to some aspects of electric car ownership as well. Personally I would love to buy an EV (car) , but for me personally as it stands now there are several reasons why I won’t or can’t. I own a travel trailer and take long trips. I understand that recharge stations are become more prolific however there still aren’t enough and it takes to long. Also the range available currently is just not enough. Like I said I tow a camper and nothing out now is set up to do that and the trucks I’ve seen that are supposedly going to hit the market have a much reduced range when towing. Last is cost. These vehicles are wayyy too expensive at the moment. I understand the arguments about that extra cost being taken up by not having to fill a gas tank and reduced maintenance however that’s not really the point. The upfront cost is out of reach of myself and most other people with large or very long term monthly payments. Now if I need to save money I just drive less and am still able to manage a reasonable car payment. Also I’m able to do most maintenance myself to save some money. Maybe in 5 or 10 years when the tech gets better and cheaper I can consider it but not now.
Unless your commute is extremely short (like 10-15 minutes), 1 hour of endurance is just not long enough, with sensible reserves, for any safe travel. 15 minutes to shoot a couple of missed approaches, 30 minutes to diversion and you're out of battery. And in densely built up areas like SoCal, that can get you killed in a real hurry.
Based on this, I can see that within 10 years, we could have standard short-distance route airplanes flying inland, or shorter distances in Europe with up to 80 passengers or so. I can see this being interesting for smaller airplane companies such as Widerøe here in Norway who normally fly with Dash 8 propeller airplanes between cities in Norway.
Don't know if any of you ever flew in sudden near stormy to stormy conditions, but I was in a Cape Air approx. (8) passenger, dual engine prop, many years ago coming into Martha's Vineyard and a storm was off in the distance, but the wind was right there. While the pilot did her best to keep the plane steady, the runway literally came in and out of view and then my head hit the ceiling somehow while even buckled up, then as we approached closer to the runway we were fighting a crosswind and I could feel the plane going sideways. My point being that light is good, but being too light in the wind is not fun for anyone.
This is an incredibly exciting time to live in, bye bye fuel, pistons and exhausts. My grandad spoke about the petrol engine versus horse drawn, I guess this is kind of like that.
Need a breakthrough in the battery industry for this. I wonder if people with horse drawn carriages looked suspiciously at the emerging petrol engine 100+ years ago like we are now..
It’s been a while since this was released.. Battery Development continues as latest reports show developing Battery’s to be part of the Structural Composites. This suggests the efficient aerodynamically designed Body would in fact be built using embedded Battery Materials. Electric Motors have high torque advantages over Piston Engines which is why Climb Rate is astonishing. Pipistrel is well positioned to offer Electric Trainers. Notice others copying the Body Design means there’s terrific value. Advances in Solar Panel Designs show improvement also. Maybe future designs will show the Wing Tops layered with Solar Collectors! Sailing vessels, both Mono Hauls and Catamarans have already been changing to 100% Electric. Here Regen Props and Solar Panels populate the Boat Top. High efficiency Battery designs still have difficulties with heat and have been known to catch fire. Small gas/diesel generators help when battery charges are low. Gone are the large Diesel 1500# Generator Systems. Pushing Technology Limits has many rewards.
Do you have metal, like aluminum or copper, & air flow by to draw heat away from the batteries? solar? I almost asked about a vertical wind turbine on its side with the top half exposed. That was until you said it generates power upon descent in landing. How much horsepower is it, because I have trouble finding horsepower advertised on any plane. Why is that too?
Absolutely beautifull aircraft in which you can see the future of small planes. Very nice indeed.
+Nico Meier Yeah flying for one hour is great. Where I am we have to take a minimum of 45 mins of reserve fuel, so in this aircraft I'd get one circuit in.
+duckgoesmooo You do realize that this is the beginning of a new era and that development - especially for ways of storing electric energy - is just beginning?
+Nico Meier
No, I think "Duck" wanted them to make an Electric 747, that can carry 400 Passengers across the Atlantic in 2 hours.
Or else, Electric Planes are just something to make fun of!
no id just prefer an aircraft that has enough range to get out of the circuit
no id just prefer an aircraft that has enough range to get out of the circuit
this reduction in "fuel" cost is priceless when it comes to early student pilot training!
Gives new meaning to "staying current".
jjohnston94 I have to admit, I got a charge out of your comment. Now I'm all amped up. :)
For me, the short in-flight time was shocking! ;)
Don't know watt these guys are talking about. Must be the regeneration gap. An Old, Bold Pilot
I couldn’t resist adding a comment. Totally electrifying!
jjohnston94
- Oh good grief ... ;-)
Economy is the killer feature: if flight schools start to buy planes like this, they could really make learning to fly affordable for many people.
Give some hard evidence that the price of battery maintenance is even close to Piston or i'll just assume your one of those anti-new technology people.
I wonder how difficult would be to fly a Cessna 172 after learning how to fly on this plane. There are a lot more moving parts on a traditional engine and checklists must be very different.
Major League - That idea is pure fiction from people who have no clue what they are talking about.
Here are some lifespan statistics on today's Lithium Ion batteries. They will last tens of thousands of hours, while a piston engine needs to be completely overhauled every 2000 hours.
blog.evandmore.com/lets-talk-about-the-panasonic-ncr18650b
@MajorLeague The video states that battery swaps take a matter of minutes. Presumably, the batteries aren't super cheap, but I'd wager it'd be a schools interest to have two or more sets of batteries. I'd wager that supplies would do a battery lease or swap scheme, where you simply trade in your older batteries for new ones. My concern is 10+ years from now when E power really starts to cut into IC/oil industry. E power suddenly won't be as cheap when there are more ways to tax us for it.
@@captaincrunch3892 These batteries are discharged at nearly 1C, they are not going to last long with that kind of punishment.
Finally someone gets it right removeable batteries I love it!!
They're probably right, in the case of cars, as most people don't need to be able to use them all the time. For a trainer to make economic sense for the operator, it needs to be able to run all day.
Here in Western Canada I might make a trip to see my sister in Montana and it's 9 hrs one way. Sometimes we go see family in Salt Lake Utah which is 18 hr one way. The only electric car system to go the whole way in the same way we're accustomed would be one that switches out batteries on the way.
James Coleman Dude, you are missing the obvious: you wanna spend 9-18 hours in a seat that small, in a cockpit that tiny? Even with battery swap it's the wrong tool. Kinda like saying you don't want a Vespa scooter because of those 9 and 18 hour road-trips.
@@LegendLength Under 90 lbs I heard.
@@sweenie58 Tesla already has this network.
If they could put the batteries in the wings this would be ideal, as of now there is hardly any luggage space. Flew in this airplane this spring, can tell you it is an incredible leap forward in electric aircraft. We flew with no headset and it was more then okay. Amazing instant thrust with throttle. Once they have some range this will be my next aircraft. Keep on innovating Pipistrel!
+Darryl Zubot Thanks for the update DZ. What's the top speed on this wonder wing?
+Watch Ryder VC is 85 knots, VA is 86, VH is 105, and VNE is 135.
+Darryl Zubot I'd love to see a system like this augmented with a microturbine turning a high-speed alternator to provide power. 10 gallons of Kerosene would keep it running for hours.
Vc? Vh? Not familiar.
Vc is Cruise Speed
Vh is Speed of the aircraft when maximum power is applied at straight and level flight
I love how this airplane can take off immediately without an engine run-up
Raymond Jones
How you going to heat the pilots after that cold start? Or defrost the windshield.
bill corbett my assumption is that it has a separate APU given it doesn't need bleed air
bill corbett - Electric heating seems as a logical step here. Why have electric plane with fuel consuming APU? Maybe it could be jet-electrical but that wouldn't cut the fuel cost.
Would it be possible to use electrical sparks or electric-thermal as an afterburner?
$2 dollars for "gas" for the entire flight? That's crazy talk. I would think the cost of flight school will plummet when these become widespread.
+Bob Stanfield I read am article where the owner of Pipistrel claimed this plane would reduce training costs by 70%.
But will it withstand shitty landings?
Yes, smoother landings with electric because the engine power delivery is much smoother.
But $2 is pretty expensive. So they've now created a solar trailer for their G4 glider. You put the glider inside of the trailer, or next to it, and it recharges the glider for free. It takes about 10 hours for solar recharge, so you need to charge it one day, then fly another. But hey, you don't have time to glide every day anyway.
@@zexzex8312 maybe they can put solar panels in the wings
Every comment on EVs ever:
-"But it will never be mainstream"
-"But there is no infrastructure"
-"But the electricity itself isn't green"
-"But you can't recycle the batteries"
-"But the batteries lose their charge"
-"But thorium"
-"But hydrogen"
this is the best we got. If you have no faith in technology development cycles or you just can't stand a technology that's in its infancy then keep pumping that kerosene, leave this to the early adopters, keep repeating those seven things above like a mantra and do your best never to change anything in the world. And for god's sake, don't have any sort of vision, that would be mad!
Exactly. Give this 10 years of improvement and it will be great.
That's green dreaming all over again.
Reality sees no spectacular improvement in battery density and or chemistry in the last 20 years and the coming decades.. Hybrids drives might be a better solution. Combining the best of ICE and electric.
Flex maybe you reality hasn't seen any improvement, hell my dad still can't believe a computer can give him real cash just by putting in some numbers...
Some people just get stuck in the past and that is all they will ever comprehend.
No density improvement? You anti-green idiots are just unbelievable... Renault Zoe 5 years ago: 24kwH... Renault Zoe now: 41kwH... same size of the battery, same car and THAT is why electric is the future, YOU are simply an ignorant and why WE are ALREADY laughing at you denialists with your blinders on.
There are good applications for electric, and there are less-good applications for electric. There is not a universal solution for everything, nor should anyone speak in those terms.
It's good to experiment and explore what works and what doesn't. Fact is that as of right now, batteries simply don't offer the same energy density of fossil fuels, and that will be a major application constraint for the foreseeable future. They make it up in lower cost of operation, but cost isn't everything if your application requires endurance -- something that is paramount for most vehicles.
Airplanes in particular live and die by energy density and endurance, which makes electrical power a very tricky proposition. Maybe at some point they'll crack the problem, and create a system with batteries light and dense enough to provide range comparable to an average GA aircraft. We're not there yet though, far from it.
Air-to-air refueling looks like it could be fun. Here's your fresh battery packs - catch!
Started flying the pipistrel alpha trainer today.... if you get the chance to do your training on these DO IT. All I’ve flown is Cessna but upon take off I immediately fell in love!
this thing is perfect for flight schools, hell you could even let a student do his/hers first short nav in it. There's a field near my homebase about 20 minutes flying for instance, this little thing would be perfect for that.
So cool. That prop literally looks like a standard slow-fly prop on a LiPo powered rc plane. Man, electric is the way to go for fixed wing. Future is electric.
bauhaus. this plane is literally worthless for any GA uses. you cant even make it from one airport to a neighboring airport reliably. a headwind some time in the pattern and just one goaround takes up a large portion of your flight time.
it may well make a good trainer with reduced fuel and maint costs, but a school would have to invest in a tin of chargers and change out packs several times a day to get decent flight time and thats a massive upfront investment.
a decent enclosed ultralight has similar flight times and only takes moments to refuel. it may take $15 in gas to refuel an ultralight opposed to $2 in electricity but convenience and flight time are very much worth it.
cool plane tho,
You do realize that we have the next billion years of innovation to go through, correct? This is a prototype, and the way they are advertising it, its a partial replacement for something like an ultralight or Cub where the most you will be doing is flying patterns and hopping around the city.
rojamb Nothing can replace the Cub.
_Nothing_, you hear?
bauhaus l00998(#aw
bauhaus I
It's amazing that there are still advancements being made in prop design after 100 years.
Great plane.
Thanks
C Smith Prop design has a very interesting history in both boats and planes. The blades on the prop on the ship Great Britain kept falling of and was hopelessly inefficient luckily they also had sail.
This is the future. $2 for that flight!
This electrical aircraft is destined to be the future choice for light aircraft design and power propulsion. An excellent job by the company Pipistrel, and a tribute to their innovation and ingenuity--- well done guys!!!!
man. a couple bucks in one charge. better than 32 gallons of octane fuel.
Not necessarily, the battery banks will be a fortune, and they will need to be replaced eventually (probably before a 2200hr overhaul on a traditional engine), The key is all around battery cost what do the batteries do to the original purchase price? Then the long term maintenance/replacement cycle. Kind of like electric cars super expensive to buy, inexpensive to use, hugely expensive to maintain...
tjonessc batteries become cheaper and better every year. I don’t think this is true for engine overhauls or new petrol engines.
@@tjonessc "Kind of like electric cars super expensive to buy, inexpensive to use, hugely expensive to maintain"
None of which is true other than use expense. EVs are incredibly cheap, have almost no moving parts and therefore almost never need any sort of maintenance. Most EV owners have never had to pay for maintenance the entire time of their ownership. I know countless Model S owners that haven't put a single penny into their cars for 5+ years other than the cost of charging the battery, and drive their car everyday.
Same with Model 3, still have never heard a single case of anyone having to pay any money for maintenance.
@@tjonessc Oh and battery banks never really have to be replaced, even with heavy usage from modern batteries 7 years ago. There is something seriously wrong from the manufacture if your battery needs to be replaced with the 15 year life-span coverage.
Please stop spewing false information and start actually doing the research on modern EVs.
@@tjonessc I'm willing to wager that the unit cost of the batteries might be cheaper than the unit cost of the engine overhaul. Not to mention the additional factors of oil, belts, and fuel. As for the cycle count of the batteries, a typical cell is rated for about 500 to 1000 cycles. Depending on the amount of flying and the number of hot-swappable batteries on standby the replacement cycle for the units may be extended to a scale similar to traditional piston engines.
Cool. Electricity is the future. Keep it up.
Congrats ..who is their distributor in Canada ?
Worrying about non renewable waste from failed or dead batteries seems a bit of a cheap argument to criticize something as new as electric planes are, especially when compared to the pollution created by engines in general which, surely, donesn't do any better.
Electricity will be the future of aviation, up to a certain extent, and hopefully won't be much longher to wait!
Riccardo Granato definitetly, even with the sinus glider you are sipping fuel, and comparing it to say an archer it barely takes any.
+Riccardo Granato New generation lithium-ion batteries are 100% recyclable. Where the older generation had lead and acid, lithium batteries have salt based fluids. And besides that, I think it's funny that people suddenly begin to worry about a new technologies toxicity, while at the same time using oil, coal and nuclear, which is no way near clean or recyclable.
+2014andBeyonD I agree, but a good 90+% of lead acid batteries are recycled.
+EpiDemic117 Yeah, but those are multi-million dollar engines on large commercial airliners. The vast majority of light, general-aviation aircraft still use incredibly inefficient piston engines that burn leaded fuel.
+EpiDemic117 I'm hoping Siemens' 250kW motors can make it to the GA end of aviation. They're tiny, but very powerful.
Amazing design of Airplane. Very good the Idea of E-aircraft!
Iskrene čestitke vsem, ki se trudijo in ustvarjajo čudovite uspehe. Pipistrel = zakon
Amazingly quiet! This will be great for training- $2 worth of electricity vs $40 in gas.
leaded gas at that
Nice demonstration. Good work to you AND Pipistrel!
It's nice to have these kinds of vehicles in place for when battery capacity improves. Also impressive they are doing this kind of work in eastern europe. All good wishes!
I bought the patent on the electric airplane years ago. Only hold-back has been the limited length of extension cords. ;)
Oh come on! Such humor won't fly around here. Taxi it back to the hangar.
No need to make a big flap over it. ;)
DAM FLA LOL, boy did you wing it on that one!
Actually, I was quite grounded at the time. ;)
You know, and I do not mean to brag, but I do hold a patent on an electric cord stretcher. Maybe we can work something out..
I read about this in the EAA magazine "Sport Aviation". The article was very positive, citing its low cost as a basic trainer for learning to fly pattern work; that is, takeoffs, airport pattern flying, and descent and landings.
Excellent film footage and commentary. Great use and advancement of technology.
Bravo Slovenija pozdrav iz Svedske. Milorad Bajic.
Thanks for reporting!
Kid you are a helluvayoungman . You are like a old time hard working person. I am 71 yrs old and I hope to hell there are a lot more like you . My 2 boys started working very young and have continued to do so , so I know there are at least 3 of you to keep civilization goinhg.. I believe if more people knew of your genus with your hands you could write your own ticket. Like I tell my boys dream big work hard and everything will be fine .
Osgood luck and GOD BLESS Jim
Nice vid Paul. So can you clarify at cruising speed, how long can the plane fly on a full charge?
This is a wonderful aircraft for flight schools! I would still recommend some hours in a Cessna though. That way the students are used to both situations. Pipistrel has the right idea!
GJ guys! big respect on the work done!
Bravo Pipi :)
Would this make your chances of surviving a crash greater?
Correct
Wonderful! Thanks so much for posting this video. Very inspiring.
fenomenale
Good a plane to add to my Nissan LEAF, i'm loving this clean energy concept in cars and aircraft !
Anderson Cave, you haven't seen all the pollution caused by those "clean" batteries.
Justin Clark
No I haven't, I live on a small island and we're looking to drop oil and their messy products altogether. So no I haven't seen pollution the likes of the US or China, so I have no experience with that, living in the Caribbean we don't know such. Maybe one day it'll show itself.
*****
It's quite nice a car, more and more people are buying them where I live in Barbados. you're not purchasing oil based products for fuel, secondly it's a great drive, nice bhp and torque. Overall, not sure I'll buy another oil based product vehicle again.
How much will it cost? How much fuel would have been consumed if it had aviation fuel instead? Glad to see things going this direction... the fact there is so much less moving parts for maintenance and fuel is extremely low cost... this makes the initial purchase price the last question... thanks
Only practical all elrectric trainer that I know of! Should design a light weight compact hybrid for cross country training/trips! Would not take much and would still be extremely economical!!! Kudos to the Team at Pipistrel!!!
Including a rough guesstimate on the cost of the battery pack ( a consumable resource), the cost per flight is probably around 15-2 Euros per flight. Still, quite inexpensive considering the lack of required maintenance.
Does that number include electricity costs to recharge or just the batteries wear?
Would this be considered a Light Sport Airplane? I don't know much about airplanes but i do know the little ones crash way more than the bigger ones. By bigger I mean planes like Cessna, not a 747.
absolutely bloody marvelous, well done guys !!!!
I wonder how much weight a small gas motor and generator would add.
Is a pusher prop not as viable for an electric aircraft? Wouldn't that help with noise fatigue and afford the pilot an unobstructed forward view? Something like Burt Rutan's long ez?
Sweet.
Now how about adding some solar panels to the wings for a bit of a boost? Presumably someone already mentioned that in the comments.
I was thinking that and also use a small, squirrel cage type, wind generator in the air-scoop to add to the longevity.
Because same as my electric car... the panels wouldn't pay for their own weight. People don't quite understand the amount of power in modern vehicle lithium ion batteries. The 17kWh pack in the Alpha Electro, like the 22kWh pack in my car would power a typical four bedroom house for a day or two. To continuously feed the 10kW charger for this aircraft you'd pretty much have to deploy solar panels covering the entirety of the hangers roof. Big things are coming in terms of pack capacity, it pretty much grows at 7-8% a year. Three years after my car launched the new model is coming with a 57% larger pack in the same size and weight. In ~7-8 years it will be cheaper to produce 30kWh class electric cars than than petrol equivalents. My next EV which I'm buying in the next six months will have a 60kWh pack that would power my home for two weeks, my home is fairly energy efficient but still....
cros13 Sure, that occurred to me. Of course if the panels were part of the wing structure and used the latest lightweight tech - I recall seeing paint-on solar panels on some popular science website a couple of years ago - then it might be feasible. It also occurs to me that an electric aircraft with solar panels on the wings could land anywhere and recharge.
Wishful thinking, perhaps.
cros13 Which kind of electric car, BTW? I have an eGolf.
cros13 This is what I was thinking of regarding paint on/spray on solar
www.engadget.com/2014/08/03/spray-painted-solar-cells/
I have no idea how far along this tech is. Every so often I read about a breakthough in solar and/or battery tech and then never hear of it again
It's not the future, it can be the present. There is only one moving component. I just don't understand why they need to keep the pirate in the loop 2:10?
In case your comment isn't Irony, he said: "keeping the pilot in the loop". This means that the pilot is kept in the control loop for that particular system by informing him over the systems status and therefore enabling him to perform corrections.
What is the battery life and what does it cost to replace the batteries?
Can the propellers be wired to recharge the batteries in flight, so their energy is recycled, rather than spent only? That would give the plane greater distance potential, which is only logical.
It's designed that way.
Very interesting. The cost to recharge is amazing. I assume maintenance and scheduled maintenance is less as well?
Designers such as Tine' Tomazic are indeed a tribute to modern and innovative aircraft design technology. Under his leadership, it is apparent that Pipistrel will soon take a lead in modern light aircraft production due to excellent performance of their aircraft both in economy efficiency as well as flight performance. Well done Pipistrel!!!
what a great flight trainer for any city GA airport
How can the batteries charge so quickly? Is it the type of battery, or type of charger that make such quick charging possible? And does quick charge compromise the potential number of charges? The quick swap battery management system is the only way to go (if you have enough battery packs). It's dealing with the short battery life that is inherent with battery power. It's living with it, instead of trying to wait for better battery tech to improve. What if it doesn't for a long time? Quick swap!
Nice! I hope Pipistrel will make the battery modules and the motor/controller available for experimental builders.
+ThalassTKynn Anything is available with enough cash on tap :)
+ThalassTKynn
The Battery Management System (BMS) seems pretty awesome!
You guys produce such good content.
Would love to get an electric paraglider motor. Boy that young captain sure looks like FPS Russia sure you don't have any mini guns on board?
Excited to see where this goes as new battery technology comes out
Already here with solid state batteries
@@evolicious So your saying it is available NOW with solid state batteries. Or did you choose your words poorly to intentionally mislead?
I've asked the same question over in the DA40 NG video:
Why not marry a small diesel turbine APU to generate power for the motor to extend range and avoid the complexity of a diesel piston engine with a short TBO?
Too much weight and would entirely go against the point of the product which aims to move to full EV, something all forms of transportation are doing right now.
Starting around 4:40 lots of buildings with solar panels. Charge your electric airplane with solar, fly cheaply and carbon free!
respect Pipistrel... respect.
Can I use my old phone charger or do I have to get a fancy new one again ?
Great to see aircraft going electric now too. Also, nicely objective review from a traditionally oil-based industry - for instance matching the range to an appropriate use i.e. training. EV owners are tired of the automotive industry's incessant bashing of electric cars because they would do 500 miles on a single charge yet.
While I do accept that the propeller is efficient when acting as a propeller, I find it hard to accept that it is also efficient when acting as a wind turbine( 3:11) as the aerofoil section can never fit both the propeller and the turbine . Still one doe get some energy back , but not so efficient as a generator, but as a brake to increase the rate of sink , it will be useful
Paul Bertorelli is an OG
How much this Airplane? I wanna purchase one these
Is there a fire suppression system built into the "BMS"? Seeing so many cells so tightly packed makes me a little nervous. Perhaps mistakenly so... What do you guys think?
+Ian Dykens I'd probably opt for a fire in an electric aircraft than one powered with avgas.
+AdrianDotis I thought that too until i started flying electric rc planes and quads... lipo fires pack can a punch in for their small size... and these are much much larger.. i dont know how you monitor multiple 600 cell packs either! particularly when one bad one can take them all out.
+d1fballplayer I would think that with electric cars, driving around wiht thousends of Li-Ion cells, this has been tackled already, or have youever read something about a Tesla that burnt down due to en electric fire? I haven't.
Google it... believe there was a tesla fire a week ago... ive heard of a few but dont know the number
What kind of batteries are those, lithium ?
Also how much does each of the 6 battery trays weigh ?
schools will want this, but private ownership won't until battery life/distance improves,
Agreed. Honestly, that translates in to some aspects of electric car ownership as well. Personally I would love to buy an EV (car) , but for me personally as it stands now there are several reasons why I won’t or can’t. I own a travel trailer and take long trips. I understand that recharge stations are become more prolific however there still aren’t enough and it takes to long. Also the range available currently is just not enough. Like I said I tow a camper and nothing out now is set up to do that and the trucks I’ve seen that are supposedly going to hit the market have a much reduced range when towing. Last is cost. These vehicles are wayyy too expensive at the moment. I understand the arguments about that extra cost being taken up by not having to fill a gas tank and reduced maintenance however that’s not really the point. The upfront cost is out of reach of myself and most other people with large or very long term monthly payments. Now if I need to save money I just drive less and am still able to manage a reasonable car payment. Also I’m able to do most maintenance myself to save some money. Maybe in 5 or 10 years when the tech gets better and cheaper I can consider it but not now.
Seems like the decreased risk of engine failure halfway makes up for the very limited range.
If you have a glider rating....what 'limited range'? ;-)
Интересно, как у них дела с электрической "пантерой". Там уже 4 сиденья и расстояние должно быть серьёзным.
Rather than on a surface directly affected by prop blast, mount the GoPro on the dash next time. Just a thought.
*iS this Fs2020?*
I would suggest putting solar on the wings to refuel the batteries slowly
How much does the battery weigh?
Perfect solution for those who do short commutes in Southern California, such as point A and B in the L.A. Basin.
Unless your commute is extremely short (like 10-15 minutes), 1 hour of endurance is just not long enough, with sensible reserves, for any safe travel. 15 minutes to shoot a couple of missed approaches, 30 minutes to diversion and you're out of battery. And in densely built up areas like SoCal, that can get you killed in a real hurry.
A short distance commute in LA can last for hours.
Based on this, I can see that within 10 years, we could have standard short-distance route airplanes flying inland, or shorter distances in Europe with up to 80 passengers or so. I can see this being interesting for smaller airplane companies such as Widerøe here in Norway who normally fly with Dash 8 propeller airplanes between cities in Norway.
Flight school can cost upwards of $100K if you are going for a professional rating. Hopefully this amazing technology will bring the cost down.
Don't know if any of you ever flew in sudden near stormy to stormy conditions, but I was in a Cape Air approx. (8) passenger, dual engine prop, many years ago coming into Martha's Vineyard and a storm was off in the distance, but the wind was right there. While the pilot did her best to keep the plane steady, the runway literally came in and out of view and then my head hit the ceiling somehow while even buckled up, then as we approached closer to the runway we were fighting a crosswind and I could feel the plane going sideways. My point being that light is good, but being too light in the wind is not fun for anyone.
You don't do beginner training (at least the early parts) in heavy crosswinds. Not even in a heavier ICE legacy trainer.
@2:06 Is the bottle on the left break fluid?
A revolution in Battery
Tech will revolutionize every form of transport.
Congratulations!!
Why don't add photovoltaic panels on the wings for greater autonomy?? This would be a smarter aircraft!!
I wonder if there is a pusher dual propeller available like the ICON A5
Any update on the specs ?
The Panthera is a nice aircraft.
ok reeally nice plane, I like it a lot.
but the Range must be miserable. How mauch Range is there?
This is an incredibly exciting time to live in, bye bye fuel, pistons and exhausts. My grandad spoke about the petrol engine versus horse drawn, I guess this is kind of like that.
MY SON GIRL FRIEND WILL HAVE A ONE WAY 150 MILE COMMUTE WHATS THE PRICE RANGE AND SPEED?
This would significantly bring the cost of pilot training down. Great airplane!
Why dont they do something like a hybrid electric?
Need a breakthrough in the battery industry for this. I wonder if people with horse drawn carriages looked suspiciously at the emerging petrol engine 100+ years ago like we are now..
Wow, 7 years already.
It’s been a while since this was released.. Battery Development continues as latest reports show developing Battery’s to be part of the Structural Composites. This suggests the efficient aerodynamically designed Body would in fact be built using embedded Battery Materials. Electric Motors have high torque advantages over Piston Engines which is why Climb Rate is astonishing. Pipistrel is well positioned to offer Electric Trainers. Notice others copying the Body Design means there’s terrific value. Advances in Solar Panel Designs show improvement also. Maybe future designs will show the Wing Tops layered with Solar Collectors!
Sailing vessels, both Mono Hauls and Catamarans have already been changing to 100% Electric. Here Regen Props and Solar Panels populate the Boat Top. High efficiency Battery designs still have difficulties with heat and have been known to catch fire.
Small gas/diesel generators help when battery charges are low. Gone are the large Diesel 1500# Generator Systems.
Pushing Technology Limits has many rewards.
What is the total flight time you can get on a single charge?
+David Holland 1 hour.. with 30 min reserve.
I wonder if you could crank refill the battery 0_0
Those big batteries are AMAZINGLY light compared to lead acid types.
Do you have metal, like aluminum or copper, & air flow by to draw heat away from the batteries? solar? I almost asked about a vertical wind turbine on its side with the top half exposed. That was until you said it generates power upon descent in landing. How much horsepower is it, because I have trouble finding horsepower advertised on any plane. Why is that too?
I think he said something about 65 KW and that translates to around 87 HP
+Bargain Boondocker thank you
The only horse that flies is Pegasus.
I just flew this. Amazing what a great airplane. Looking forward to reaching students.
Does someone know the price of this plane ?
beautiful bird, share it on my FB