Another objection is the "brothers" of Christ. I found the following blog entitled "who were the brethren of the Lord from the website Obitel Minsk a great help when I grappled with this question because it was the most convincing Bible-based argument. I thought I'd share. Who Were the “Brethren of the Lord”? Posted on November 6, 2017 | by Editor | SourceReading time: 4 minutes Q: Who were the “brethren of the Lord” (Matthew 12:46-47), and if He had brothers, why do we call the Theotokos “Ever-Virgin”? A: The “brethren” of Jesus are mentioned several times in the New Testament. Four are mentioned by name. To explain who they were is not difficult, because the Scripture itself names four of them and identifies their parentage. Matthew (13:55) and Mark (6:3) list, as brethren of Jesus, James, Joses, Simon and Jude. We know for certain that James and Joses were not sons of Mary or Joseph, for the Scripture identifies them, as children of a different Mary, who was the wife of Alphaeus-Cleopas (Matthew 27:56; Mark 15:40). James is also referred to as the “son of Alphaeus”, in the listing of the Apostles (Matthew 10:3 ; Mark 3:18 ; Luke 6:15 ; Acts 1:13). The relationship between these “brethren” (including “sisters”) must be seen in the context of Hebrew-Aramaic tradition, according to which even cousins were called brothers and sisters. This is the case also in Greek and Slavic languages and cultures to this day, so we do not have to speculate about it. This is a fact we know very well from our own families and lives. We have a perfect example of this in the Old Testament Scripture. The word used to describe the relationship between Lot and Abraham at Genesis 14:16 is “adelphi” in the original Greek, which can only be translated as “brother” in English. Nevertheless, we know that Lot was Abraham’s nephew. The Greek word “adelphos” and “adelphi” are only attempts to translate an unknown Aramaic word - and no one has any idea what the actual word was which is rendered in Greek and English as “brothers” or “brethren”. There could have been no “first blood” brothers of Christ, otherwise He would not have given the care of His mother to St. John the Theologian (John 19:26) at the foot of the Cross. Indeed, Christ would have done His ‘brothers’ great disrespect and harm if He had done this ! The Old Testament prophecies explain the virginal marriage and ever-virginity of Christ’s mother, and we also have the testimony of the Holy Spirit speaking through the Church that Mary is “Ever-Virgin”. Further evidence from the Holy Scriptures that in the Hebrew tradition “brothers” and “sisters” are not necessarily siblings. Our Orthodox Tradition teaches us that the Holy Virgin Mary was the only child of Saints Joakhim and Anna, but at John 19:25 we read, “Standing near the Cross of Jesus was His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary of Klopas, and Mary magdala.” If our Church history is correct, how could Mary have had a sister? The first clue to our answer is that both women are named Mary. ! No family has two daughters and gives them both the same name! Therefore it is evident that the relationship between the two women has to be something different than our modern English concept of “sister”. The second clue to our answer is that the Bible clearly identifies this Mary of Klopas (Cleopas in KJV), as the mother of Jesus’ “brothers”. The name Klopas or Cleopas is the same as Alphaeus in the Aramaic language which Jesus spoke. Therefore the so-called brothers of Jesus mentioned at Mark 6:3 are elsewhere clearly identified as the sons of Alphaeus and his wife Mary of Klopas - the “sister” of the Virgin Mary. Thus the Scriptures show that the “brothers” of Christ are not His brothers, but some relation. There is no scriptural evidence to support the notion that the Virgin Mary bore any other children apart from Jesus Christ our God. Seeing Him born as an infant in Bethlehem. Let all creation glorify Him!
Hey I hope you’re still there. I’m enquiring about orthodox but I tell myself I don’t have to agree with every single doctrine to just as how I don’t agree with every Protestant doctrine. I just have some questions and you seem knowledgeable so explain. Why would God have her marry if she was never going to give her husband sex?? Are we to assume they both swore a vow of celibacy upon their marriage. He wasn’t going to touch her?? Are we now assuming sex is bad even though it’s a gift from the most high?
@@AurelianPropaganda I am still here but I'm not the person to ask really. You would be better meeting a priest in real life. Lately I avoid internet interactions as I see relatively few signs that either they are fruitful, or my business. Based on your question and how precisely you phrase it, I would encourage you to pray for God to give you the grace of true obedience to Him. None of us are very good at adopting the spirit with which the centurion obeyed his commanders and with which his slave Christ healed from afar obeyed the centurion. It was enough for them to see or hear their master's will for them to follow without question. It is not necessary to make either assumption you propose to see that God did will her to remain above the passions of the flesh, but even if we may someday understand the will of God regarding this, it cannot be down a path that begins with demands above our station. Please pray for me and everyone that we may all have the faith of the centurion that Christ Himself marvelled at. This is a path that leads to God.
09:27 I was always curious about this. Did the Blessed Virgin Mary conceive other children with Saint Joseph? I am glad to have this question answered. I strongly suspected that she remained a virgin forever. Thank you
I just read St John Maximovich's ""Orthodox Veneration of the Mother of God". Its short and to the point and I like the arguments that "until" is used in other passage to mean eternity and not that a change occurs. He also says that if Mary was not a virgin, then why did Jesus give care of her to John and not these supposed brothers and sisters. The Nazarene crowd knew of Jesus's family and they treated them like a normal family and not one that is scandalous The Church says she was ever virgin and that is all we need
Saint Simeon enters chat: Saint Simeon was translating a book of the Prophet Isaiah, and read the words: “Behold, a virgin shall conceive in the womb, and shall bring forth a Son” (Is 7:14). He thought that “virgin” was inaccurate, and he wanted to correct the text to read “woman.” At that moment an angel appeared to him and held back his hand saying, “You shall see these words fulfilled. You shall not die until you behold Christ the Lord born of a pure and spotless Virgin.” 300 years later after waiting so long was able to finally depart in peace. Thats why he said that to them after seeing Christ in his hands.
Hey I am enquiring about orthodox I do not agree with all Protestant doctrines but I still attend their churches so maybe it’s something I’d never agree to however I am here to ask questions that I know the Holy Spirit wouldn’t mind. I just see too many assumptions that’s all. Like someone can assume Joseph (Old Testament)lived a sinless life but this is very dangerous I believe. Something Satan can easily use in terms of assumptions. Anyways I’m not trying to have an ultimate scriputre battle here or dispute the whole brothers thing I just have basic questions. Why do we assume Joseph vowed to never touch her in marriage?? She wouldn’t be defiled or any less a woman of God if she had relations with her husband. That is literally a commandment. All I’m saying is we have assumed Joseph married a woman and an angel told him to never touch her after Our Lords birth. And then we assume Mary vowed to never sleep with her husband because what?? She’s too holy and pure??? Says who??? That sex under marriage made you less pure? Which apostle ever said don’t have sex in marriage?? And even if it was “purity” sake she’d never come close to the holiness of Christ as he is the only one worthy to even open such scrolls in revelations. FOR ANYONE READING THIS I ASK THIS IN GOOD FAITH IF YOU FEEL TRIGGERED OR PRIDEFUL OF HE DOESNT KNOW ANY SCRIPTURE OR GOD I WANT YOU TO PRAY BEFORE YOU ANSWER ME SO WE CAN HAVE A LOVING DISCUSSION.
Here's the thing: If your doctrine must depart from the doctrine of the apostles and prophets of the first century, you're probably an apostate. 2 Tim. 4:3-4 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
@@OrthodoxWisdom that in itself is a lie. Scripture says nothing about her virginity or any of the other Marian beliefs. Now that your church manages to make the square peg fit in the round hole, well that is a different story. It's no secret why the church claims sole authority to interpret scripture. Something that the apostle Peter does not align with. In other words your church says we can make scripture say what we want. Then if that doesn't work it also claims that not everything has to be in the bible. These two things just confirm the deception of the church. Then to its teachings they attach anathemas. Certainly not in accordance with what Peter writes. Peter said that shepherding the flock should be done without constraint, willingly and by not lording it over the flock and not for filthy lucre. Things the church does. Not only damning people to hell, but having its own bank, tons of money, real estate and gold. That truly is storing you riches in heaven, right. And also aligns with Peter when he said gold and silver have I none.
I play your videos through my car speaker via bluetooth while driving to work . Just wanted to say thank you.
He put on Her flesh. Yet He was God. He who thinks impure thoughts of the Mother of God has not entered the Mystery. 🙏
Gotta look up this Saint!
He was and is a titan of faith, persecuted by communists and demons. Look him up please!
Another objection is the "brothers" of Christ. I found the following blog entitled "who were the brethren of the Lord from the website Obitel Minsk a great help when I grappled with this question because it was the most convincing Bible-based argument. I thought I'd share.
Who Were the “Brethren of the Lord”?
Posted on November 6, 2017 | by Editor | SourceReading time: 4 minutes
Q: Who were the “brethren of the Lord” (Matthew 12:46-47), and if He had brothers, why do we call the Theotokos “Ever-Virgin”?
A: The “brethren” of Jesus are mentioned several times in the New Testament. Four are mentioned by name. To explain who they were is not difficult, because the Scripture itself names four of them and identifies their parentage. Matthew (13:55) and Mark (6:3) list, as brethren of Jesus, James, Joses, Simon and Jude.
We know for certain that James and Joses were not sons of Mary or Joseph, for the Scripture identifies them, as children of a different Mary, who was the wife of Alphaeus-Cleopas (Matthew 27:56; Mark 15:40). James is also referred to as the “son of Alphaeus”, in the listing of the Apostles (Matthew 10:3 ; Mark 3:18 ; Luke 6:15 ; Acts 1:13). The relationship between these “brethren” (including “sisters”) must be seen in the context of Hebrew-Aramaic tradition, according to which even cousins were called brothers and sisters. This is the case also in Greek and Slavic languages and cultures to this day, so we do not have to speculate about it. This is a fact we know very well from our own families and lives. We have a perfect example of this in the Old Testament Scripture. The word used to describe the relationship between Lot and Abraham at Genesis 14:16 is “adelphi” in the original Greek, which can only be translated as “brother” in English. Nevertheless, we know that Lot was Abraham’s nephew. The Greek word “adelphos” and “adelphi” are only attempts to translate an unknown Aramaic word - and no one has any idea what the actual word was which is rendered in Greek and English as “brothers” or “brethren”.
There could have been no “first blood” brothers of Christ, otherwise He would not have given the care of His mother to St. John the Theologian (John 19:26) at the foot of the Cross. Indeed, Christ would have done His ‘brothers’ great disrespect and harm if He had done this ! The Old Testament prophecies explain the virginal marriage and ever-virginity of Christ’s mother, and we also have the testimony of the Holy Spirit speaking through the Church that Mary is “Ever-Virgin”.
Further evidence from the Holy Scriptures that in the Hebrew tradition “brothers” and “sisters” are not necessarily siblings. Our Orthodox Tradition teaches us that the Holy Virgin Mary was the only child of Saints Joakhim and Anna, but at John 19:25 we read, “Standing near the Cross of Jesus was His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary of Klopas, and Mary magdala.” If our Church history is correct, how could Mary have had a sister? The first clue to our answer is that both women are named Mary. ! No family has two daughters and gives them both the same name! Therefore it is evident that the relationship between the two women has to be something different than our modern English concept of “sister”. The second clue to our answer is that the Bible clearly identifies this Mary of Klopas (Cleopas in KJV), as the mother of Jesus’ “brothers”. The name Klopas or Cleopas is the same as Alphaeus in the Aramaic language which Jesus spoke. Therefore the so-called brothers of Jesus mentioned at Mark 6:3 are elsewhere clearly identified as the sons of Alphaeus and his wife Mary of Klopas - the “sister” of the Virgin Mary.
Thus the Scriptures show that the “brothers” of Christ are not His brothers, but some relation. There is no scriptural evidence to support the notion that the Virgin Mary bore any other children apart from Jesus Christ our God.
Seeing Him born as an infant in Bethlehem. Let all creation glorify Him!
Hey I hope you’re still there. I’m enquiring about orthodox but I tell myself I don’t have to agree with every single doctrine to just as how I don’t agree with every Protestant doctrine. I just have some questions and you seem knowledgeable so explain. Why would God have her marry if she was never going to give her husband sex?? Are we to assume they both swore a vow of celibacy upon their marriage. He wasn’t going to touch her?? Are we now assuming sex is bad even though it’s a gift from the most high?
@@AurelianPropaganda I am still here but I'm not the person to ask really. You would be better meeting a priest in real life. Lately I avoid internet interactions as I see relatively few signs that either they are fruitful, or my business. Based on your question and how precisely you phrase it, I would encourage you to pray for God to give you the grace of true obedience to Him. None of us are very good at adopting the spirit with which the centurion obeyed his commanders and with which his slave Christ healed from afar obeyed the centurion. It was enough for them to see or hear their master's will for them to follow without question. It is not necessary to make either assumption you propose to see that God did will her to remain above the passions of the flesh, but even if we may someday understand the will of God regarding this, it cannot be down a path that begins with demands above our station. Please pray for me and everyone that we may all have the faith of the centurion that Christ Himself marvelled at. This is a path that leads to God.
This was interesting information. Thanks.
God bless, thank you!
I literally just shared these excerpts with my students at the university yesterday lol
09:27 I was always curious about this. Did the Blessed Virgin Mary conceive other children with Saint Joseph? I am glad to have this question answered. I strongly suspected that she remained a virgin forever.
Thank you
I just read St John Maximovich's ""Orthodox Veneration of the Mother of God". Its short and to the point and I like the arguments that "until" is used in other passage to mean eternity and not that a change occurs. He also says that if Mary was not a virgin, then why did Jesus give care of her to John and not these supposed brothers and sisters. The Nazarene crowd knew of Jesus's family and they treated them like a normal family and not one that is scandalous
The Church says she was ever virgin and that is all we need
Saint Simeon enters chat: Saint Simeon was translating a book of the Prophet Isaiah, and read the words: “Behold, a virgin shall conceive in the womb, and shall bring forth a Son” (Is 7:14). He thought that “virgin” was inaccurate, and he wanted to correct the text to read “woman.” At that moment an angel appeared to him and held back his hand saying, “You shall see these words fulfilled. You shall not die until you behold Christ the Lord born of a pure and spotless Virgin.”
300 years later after waiting so long was able to finally depart in peace. Thats why he said that to them after seeing Christ in his hands.
❤️☦️
Hey I am enquiring about orthodox I do not agree with all Protestant doctrines but I still attend their churches so maybe it’s something I’d never agree to however I am here to ask questions that I know the Holy Spirit wouldn’t mind.
I just see too many assumptions that’s all. Like someone can assume Joseph (Old Testament)lived a sinless life but this is very dangerous I believe. Something Satan can easily use in terms of assumptions.
Anyways I’m not trying to have an ultimate scriputre battle here or dispute the whole brothers thing I just have basic questions.
Why do we assume Joseph vowed to never touch her in marriage?? She wouldn’t be defiled or any less a woman of God if she had relations with her husband. That is literally a commandment.
All I’m saying is we have assumed Joseph married a woman and an angel told him to never touch her after Our Lords birth. And then we assume Mary vowed to never sleep with her husband because what?? She’s too holy and pure??? Says who??? That sex under marriage made you less pure? Which apostle ever said don’t have sex in marriage?? And even if it was “purity” sake she’d never come close to the holiness of Christ as he is the only one worthy to even open such scrolls in revelations.
FOR ANYONE READING THIS I ASK THIS IN GOOD FAITH IF YOU FEEL TRIGGERED OR PRIDEFUL OF HE DOESNT KNOW ANY SCRIPTURE OR GOD I WANT YOU TO PRAY BEFORE YOU ANSWER ME SO WE CAN HAVE A LOVING DISCUSSION.
Good post. Well?.....
Here's the thing: If your doctrine must depart from the doctrine of the apostles and prophets of the first century, you're probably an apostate.
2 Tim. 4:3-4 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Another good post.
You can defend with books or whatever. But you cant defend her with the bible.
Did you listen to this recording? Elder Cleopa defends her from the Scriptures
@@OrthodoxWisdom that in itself is a lie. Scripture says nothing about her virginity or any of the other Marian beliefs. Now that your church manages to make the square peg fit in the round hole, well that is a different story. It's no secret why the church claims sole authority to interpret scripture. Something that the apostle Peter does not align with. In other words your church says we can make scripture say what we want. Then if that doesn't work it also claims that not everything has to be in the bible. These two things just confirm the deception of the church. Then to its teachings they attach anathemas. Certainly not in accordance with what Peter writes. Peter said that shepherding the flock should be done without constraint, willingly and by not lording it over the flock and not for filthy lucre. Things the church does. Not only damning people to hell, but having its own bank, tons of money, real estate and gold. That truly is storing you riches in heaven, right. And also aligns with Peter when he said gold and silver have I none.