Praying for Those in Hell
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- June 9th, 2023
Father Josiah Trenham
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I have fallen. Anxiety and slothfulness is consuming me. This afternoon i have prayed and repented in a weeping state. May a ask for your prayers my siblings in christ, lord have mercy on me.
The Lord is compassionate and merciful, long-suffering and of great goodness. May God bless your contrition, cleanse you, and bring your heart peace.
May the Lord give U wisdom, favor and strength bro, amen
Excuse me, wouldn't "anxiety" and "sloth" be in opposition? Anxious people pace, wring their hands, devise plans and schemes. Slothful people are rather stagnant. It would be difficult to imagine these conditions coexisting let along "consuming" you.
In fact they would tend to act to cancel each other out. I'm worried, I'm worried but first a nap. I'm napping but now I'm bolt upright worrying.
Maybe you're just being too hard on yourself. I would suggest you relax but you might relapse into sloth.
@@1rjbrjb per haps i could have worded it better. In my situation anxiety was consuming me to the point that i would frequently get burned out and being slothful , which obviously made the anxiety worse as i was not doing what i should be. Ultimately not trusting in the lord and not keeping to my prayers and talking to my holy father led me to this. Thank you all for your prayers i am back on track now! Thank you lord for your mercy 🙏🙏
@@Chrisc-sn6uh I didn't mean to mock you. CS Lewis recommended humour as a way to avoid certain spiritual traps. I think you may be in a bit of a spiritual trap. Lewis used it in the context of being proud of defeating one's pride, which results in pride, which is defeated again only to re-surface as a whack-a-mole. You eventually defeat the cycle by shaking your head and chuckling at the absurdity.
I don't mean to suggest that your concerns are absurd, but it is possible that you are holding yourself to unrealistic or inconsistent standards. So a good, humble, chuckle would be Lewis's prescription.
Wow! I'm a Catholic and I'm blown away by this message! Father Josiah Trenham, I will pray for you and I thank you for this message. You are amazing and may I humbly ask that you keep this foolish fellow in your prayers as well? I have sinned greatly but I wish to repent. I sincerely am sorry for all i have done, but I have great love and hope still for so many others.
Catholics are not permitted to pray for those in Hell, i.e., those who die outside the church (including the Eastern "Orthodox") or those who die in grave sin:
Pope St. Gregory III, 732: “You ask for advice on the lawfulness of making offerings for the dead. The teaching of the Church is this - that every man should make offerings for those who died as true Christians [Catholics]… But he is not allowed to do so for those who die in a state of sin even if they were Christians.”
Pope St. Gregory VII, October 28, 1076: “If, then, in this schism which, being ventured upon against the Holy and Apostolic Church... he or anyone who shall have freely signed his name and, while knowingly communicating with the excommunicated king, has dies or shall have died without penance and satisfaction, we cannot differ from the relevant sentence of the holy fathers - namely, ‘With those with whom we have not communicated while they were living we do not venture to communicate with while they are dead.’”
No Prayers or Latin Masses for Dead Non-Catholics - Papal Teaching
ruclips.net/video/6FEX01xt__U/видео.html
The Vatican II sect under Antipope Francis is not the Catholic Church. For the true traditional Catholic faith, visit www.vaticancatholic.com
Dear Niko, if you can you should make your way to an Orthodox Church just to see what it’s like. I was a catholic for some time but after a long journey ended in the Orthodox Church. I’d warn you from the other commenter @endtimescrucialinfo . He is a self proclaimed Catholic and follower of the “most holy family monastery” based in New York ran by two men who pretend to be benedictine monks, so heed not what he says.
@@endtimescrucialinfo So one infallible pope has excommunicated another infallible pope? Francis who has been confirmed by the Cardinals is not the true pope but a fake pope of a fake catholic church?
There is also the Eastern Catholic churches if you are interested.
@@endtimescrucialinfoYou didn't listen to the video.
It was particularly characteristic of St. Silouan to pray for the dead suffering in the hell of separation from God... He could not bear to think that anyone would languish in “outer darkness.”
I remember a conversation between him and a certain hermit, who declared with evident satisfaction,
“God will punish all atheists. They will burn in everlasting fire.”
Obviously upset, the saint said, “Tell me, supposing you went to paradise, and there looked down and
saw somebody burning in hell-fire-would you feel happy?”
“It can’t be helped. It would be their own fault,” said the hermit.
The saint answered him with a sorrowful countenance. “Love could not bear that,” he said. “We must
pray for all".
Excerpt from Saint Silouan the Athonite by Archimandrite Sophrony (Sarkharov)
Thank you for sharing this
I have always struggled to accept hell for that very reason.
Please pray for my reposed dad Zhelyo...he had many good deeds...we lost him to stroke...😢
Please Prayer for my Aunt Nancy. Who ended he life before her time.
Was he an Orthodox Christian?
May the Lord mercifully see Your plight, amen
@@behindenemylines3149 may the Lord have mercy on Your relative, amen
Yes
Thank you Father, as one who doesn't know the traditions of the Church I am grateful to learn how better to pray. Thank you for helping. Bless
Amazing reflection, @Father Josiah Trenham. I was raised Byzantine Catholic and have begun returning to the Orthodox tradition. Truly, Christ has risen.
I was a messianic jew now Orthodox
Oh...I thought we "slept" until the final judgement.
The more I inquire - the more confused I get. I'm not that concerned as I'm sure this is normal at this stage.
All Glory To God
☦🙏🏻
"Soul sleep" is matter of OT. By His death, Lord went down into the Hades, broke the Hades and liberated souls worthy of salvation... Remember St. Paul's dilemma to depart and be with the Lord or to stay for the sake of the living.
Dear beloved father: I am an Orthodox from Nazareth of Galilee
Our tradition should be the core compass to practice our faith. For the tradition that was kept by the Church has spread Lord Jesus Christ’s teachings and message. Not the NT. For it was written at least after the messages arrived to more than half the inhabitants of the roman empire and beyond that. So I believe through the tradition alongside with the HB and understand the faith through my Fronima
Thanks you so much father for explaining our tradition accurately. May our Lord Father, Son and Holy Spirit bless you and bless your work
Absent from the body present with the LORD .may his grace and mercy forever remind you .
Chrysostomus talked the same, thank you father for this lection
☦OH, THANK YOU. SO VERY IMPORTANT. I had not understood the importance of those prayers before as i do now..Thank you.
Thank you Father☦️
Thank you, Father.
Thank you Father ☦
Thank you Father.
Thank you so much for these father. Like water in the desert.
When I converted my church wouldn’t allow me to add the names of my dear Mother, Father and grandparents to the list. So I bring them anyway. Thank you, Father and God bless.
I didn’t ask anyone, I just added the recently deceased Catholic father of my boyfriend to the list. 😅 I guess I shouldn’t have?
@@odetafecani1614 Yes, you should not have, and should remove them.
The Church is the Body of Christ, guided by God the Holy Spirit - God has reasons for what He has passed down to us. To be blunt, in reading of the Saints, this is worse for the soul of your father, and you - because your father (whether he wanted to or not) did not die in the Church - you are trying to "force" him into the Church, which God will never force anyone to be close to Him if they don't want. Please read more on the teaching of the Church on the soul after death, and prayers. St John of Shanghai, Father Seraphim Rose, St Anthony's monastery on life after death. God gives us rules to follow, and we don't know His judgements. If we elevate ourselves above Him, we make ourselves God - we are not helping. St Varus is a wonderful intercessor, which you canfind prayers to intercede for your father - who resposed outside of the Orthodox Church. Either online, or St Paisius monastery has an Akathist (prayer) to pray for your non-Orthodox relatives.
God in His mercy brought me, a convert with mostly non-Orthodox (if not ALL non-Orthodox) ancestors. God gave us guidelines on how to pray and hope for His mercy on those outside the Church. If we disregard that, we are not helping, we are hindering.
Why are you trying to force your parents to belong to a Church they (whether by accident or not) did not choose to be a part of? This is westernization of man, thinking they are above God and His Saints, the Holy Fathers who pass down to us the healing of soul, and the boundaries of which God established in His Body - the One Body, One Faith, One Baptism. We do not love our parents, children, or anyone else more then God does.
From the Optina Elders, friends of God:
A father who had committed suicide.
To the question: "In what way should we pray for such ones?" the answer was: "In the spirit of virtuous and wise men, pray thus: Seek out, O Lord, the lost soul of my father, if it be possible, have mercy! Unsearchable are Thy decrees. Do not account this my prayer as a sin; but may Thy holy will be done! Pray simply, without testing, giving your heart over into the right hand of the Most High. Of course it was not God's will that your father should have such a grievous death; but now he is entirely in the will of Him Who can cast both soul and body into the fiery furnace, and Who both humbles and exalts, gives over to death and brings to life, sends down to hell and raises up. And at the same time He is so merciful, almighty, and filled with love that the good qualities of all those born of earth are nothing before His Most High Goodness. Therefore you should not grieve excessively. You will say: 'I love my father, and therefore I grieve inconsolably.' This is just. But God loved and loves him incomparably more than you do. And so it remains for you to leave the eternal fate or your father to the goodness and mercy of God, Who if He wills has mercy, but who can withstand Him?"
orthodoxinfo .com/praxis/prayer_nonorth.aspx
In the Orthodox Church, we do not change things according to our old and wordly protestant ways. We leave those useless things behind. We follow what Jesus taught us for our salvation, the Narrow Path, Not whatever we feel like changing or doing any time of the day.
@@EO-John9540 thank you for your thoughtful and elaborate answer. I will keep it in mind. God bless you!
Thank you Father for the video.
Thanks
I haven't been able yet to listen to this, but will as soon as may be.
However, i know there's no one in hell yet. It will be populated only after the Lord's second coming & the final judgment. What's populated now is hades. And it is for those in hades that the Orthodox Church prays.
Actually, we pray for all the dead, as, in most cases, we don't know whether they are in hades or paradise.
Once a saint is officially enlisted by a local Church as one glorifed by God, then we no longer pray for him/her, but rather ask for their prayers for us (pray to them to intercede for us), though the faithful know our God-bearing Saints as God-bearers in their lifetimes & venerate them as Saints, upon their death, which is the beginning of the process by which those glorified by God are officially enlisted as such, by the Church.
Just as hades is not hell, so too paradise is not the Kingdom of God. Those who will be on the Lord's right side on the Last Day will live eternally in the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the Kingdom without end.
Until such time, the only persons in God's Kingdom, besides the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity (One God, Three Persons), are the Lord's holy angels & the Theotokos, who already has the union of body & spirit after death that all the resurrected dead will have when the Lord returns in glory, though some will have this for eternal life in and with the Lord Jesus Christ in His Kingdom without end & others will have this for unending torment, due to their inability to experience God as light & joy, because they chose not to prepare their souls for this.
This life is given to us to prepare for eternity. So, let us do so now and until we die.
Father bless, will you keep Alla in your prayers: may she stay in life. Amen.
Please pray for my family
Prayers coming your way my friend! 🙏❤️☦️
They are actually 7 prayers in 3 groups, commemorating the 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit. They also commemorate God the father God the son and God the holly spirit, our trinitarian God and also the departed in the Orthodox faith.
Please pray for me
Sending prayers your way my friend!! May God Bless You! ❤️🙏☦️
It does become pretty obvious though in this life who is in a state of obvious condemnation. For these we can pray and offer with our Lord, His great love as we abide with it. The great gift only He can give and work through us in His body. With the Holy Spirit!
Can you believe it?
10:10 The Prayer
I have heard one quoting another who was taken as righteous one but then all new that he committed an act of adultery. When faced was asked, we know you love Lord Jesus so much and took you as righteous. So how were you able sin? When did stop loving Lord Jesus? To which he confessed that he never stopped loving Lord Jesus but it is the fear of God that he did not have
So, Loving Lord Jesus without fearing God to those Lord Jesus said go away from me I do not know you!!!
I was disappointed when the Priest serving in my parish last Sunday, left out the first part of the Third Kneeling Prayer of Pentecost that is focussed on Christ’s harrowing of hell (Hades/Sheol).
I would ask him why he left them out. In a kind and gentle way I would say something like "I noticed part of the kneeling prayers weren't included. Is there something I should know about that I am missing?"
@@goldenarm2007He was subbing for my regular Priest. I will ask my Priest about his normal custom and whether it is common in our jurisdiction for some to abbreviate the kneeling prayers. Thanks for the suggestion.
The GOA is always shortening things to please people. Pray for their enlightenment.
In the catholic church we have purgatory ,a place where our residue of sins are purged before entering heaven. A great mercy given by God. We pray for the souls in purgatory as they cannot pray for themselves ,so we pray for them,as they can pray for us.
The rough analog is All Souls’ Day
It is difficult for me to see a difference in this "journey" and in the state of purgatory- we would pray for those who are on the way to Heaven when the time is right.
Purgatory is one of many inventions by the heretical RCC.
Thank you, Father! ❤☦️
But what of those who have died outside the Church? Can we hope for their salvation?
Canon of Supplication to St Varus
Yes absolutely. It is not 100% their fault they are outside the church. Remember Jesus asked His father to forgive the guys wit the hammer n nails @ the Cross!!! Forgiven. Yay
Hebrews 9:27 ESV / 162 helpful votes
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
no waiting, heaven or hell.
Are there different versions of this third prayer? The copy I have read a little differently.
If we're not immediately in the presence of the Lord Jesus then why did Paul write that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord? (2 Cor. 5:8 and Phil. 1:23)
He never said to be absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord. That’s a common misquote by Protestants. The correct verse is “Yes, we do have confidence, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.” 2 Cor 5:8. AND not IS
Hello Father Josiah, I have learned so much from your “Reflections” and your other publications since about 9 months ago when an Orthodox friend introduced me to your channel. I have two questions regarding this reflection:
1. Given that we are not sure of where the SOUL of a departed will go pending the general resurrection (ie a place of repose or in Hades), how do we speak to our brothers, sisters, close, friends, who “assume” that the departed has gone to a “better place”? In their time of grief, I don’t want to be insensitive but, at the same time, I want to remain true to our faith in the most gentle way possible. Anything you can offer in this regard (including a reference to one of your prior reflections) would be much appreciated.
2. Given that we don’t really know where the souls of our departed are being “held” (in a place of repose, or Hades) should we assume the worst and pray for them, as if they are being held in Hades? (The reason for this question is because unless the departed is canonized during our lifetime, we can never know where such departed is.)
I discovered a prayer for the "Commendation of the Dead" in a pamphlet called "Prayers in time of sickness, suffering, dying and death" after watching this video this morning. I prayed that for all the people I have been close with that have passed on.
As for your first question: Do you need to correct these people? Or could you just comfort them, and pray for their departed loved ones FOR them?
In Ethiopia, we comfort close families of the departed saying, "May God forgive his/her soul". I guess this statement derives its assumption from the sinful nature of humans while living in flesh.
@@hiwottilaye In Romania, and among Romanians, the majority of which are Orthodox Christians, the same thing is said. I have understood it to derive its assumption from the fact that we do not know whether the departed's soul is in paradise or hades, so we ask God's mercy on them even in greeting the bereaved. It seems the most befitting thing to say/pray about the departed according to our Faith.
@@lorraine5800 I agree.
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Who wrote the Pentecost prayers?
What does the offering of "prospera" mean? What is prospera?
prosphora is a loaf of leavened bread baked by women of the parish. from it is cut the Lamb which is consecrated as the Eucharist. the women who bake it offer it with a list of loved ones who have reposed and who are prayed for during the consecration by the priest. hth
What books do you recommend for someone considering converting to orthodoxy? Is there an equivalent to the Catholic catechism ?
We read "Know the Faith" (Shanbour) and "Come Let Us Worship" (O'Grady) in my inquirer's class.
There is no formal Orthodox catechesis from parish to parish, much less jurisdiction to jurisdiction. You learn by attending worship services and taking inquirer's classes. By talking to the faithful at coffee hour. Your parish priest determines what you (and others in your group) need to know, brings various resources to fill in perceived gaps, and fields questions as they arise.
@Eric Lammerman thanks ill check those books out. Just finished catechism. Unfortunately I live in such a remote place there is no orthodox church...nearest 500 miles away
@@farmboy694 Our priest baptized a man who lives in a remote village in Alaska several months ago. He catechised him online; but baptized him in-person, with his family and Godfather present.
I recommend connecting with a priest at a parish you might visit at least once a year (to participate in the Holy Mysteries of Confession and the Eucharist, once you are Chrismated), and ask if he might catechise you online as well. Ideally, you have an Orthodox friend who will be your Godfather and support you in your journey.
The Truth Of Our Faith by Elder Cleopa. It can be found at Uncut Mountain Press
Evangelical Christian here. This topic is still new to me and I’m trying to understand it better. Are we praying for the dead in Hades to come to repentance and faith in Christ before the final judgment or just to have some comfort in torment?
Good question, I was thinking the same thing. It almost sounds like father Trenham believes in purgatory. Maybe I misunderstood, but he said something about praying for people in Hades and that Jesus got everybody out of there once and He will do it again.
Is Hades just a resting place for sinners that can be prayed out of there?
No wonder you are puzzled as very common situation is that Prots do not correctly understand what have changed on the Cavalry. It was an event of cosmic proportions that changed many things, just as fall of Adam and Eve was of cosmic proportions that changed entire creation. Keep studying this topic.!
Father, I am confused about the 144,000 in the book of revelation?
If you are an inquirer then you need to do aot of research before you question Fr Josiah and if he knows what he's talking about
The RC church and the Orthodox church have different teachings and that3ehy they've been separated gor the past 999 years
how do you know who us a saint?
Is hades the orthodox version of purgatory??? I’m kinda lost & trying to understand
Hades is another term for hell. It's not purgatory.
@@johnsambo9379, hades is different from hell. There is no coming out of hell. But you are right hades is not purgatory, which, being a heresy, Orthodoxy rejects.
Please see cut & paste below.
The Church teaches that when the Lord died on the Cross & was buried, He was in the grave bodily; in hades with His soul, as God; in paradise with the repentant thief [St Dismus] & on the throne with the Father & the Spirit.
That's what we, Orthodox, believe.
Btw, paradise is not heaven/the Kingdom of God.
See below from a different thread:
@__,
no one has been pulled out of hell, as there's no one in it. Nor can anyone be pulled out of it when, after the Lord's final judgment, it is populated by the demons & those who freely chose to be like them, as hell is eternal.
There's a lot of confusion in English because our language doesn't have a word for hades & so we make the mistake of saying hell to denote both hades & hell.
See cut and paste below from a different thread.
I haven't been able yet to listen to this, but will as soon as may be.
However, i know there's no one in hell. It isn't yet populated. It will be only after the Lord's second coming & the final judgment. What is populated now is hades, which will be emptied after the Lord's final judgment, just as paradise too will be emptied then. It is for those in hades that the Orthodox Church prays.
Actually, we pray for all the dead, as, in most cases, we don't know whether they are in hades or paradise.
Once a saint is officially enlisted by a local Church as one glorifed by God, then we no longer pray for him/her, but rather ask for their prayers for us (pray to them to intercede for us), though the faithful know our God-bearing Saints as God-bearers in their very lifetimes & venerate them as Saints, upon their death, which is the beginning of the process by which those glorified by God are officially enlisted as such, by the Church.
Just as hades is not hell, so too paradise is not the Kingdom of God. Those who will be on the Lord's right side on the Last Day will live eternally in the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the Kingdom without end.
Until such time, the only persons in God's Kingdom, besides the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity (One God, Three Persons), are the Lord's holy angels & the Theotokos, who already has the union of body & spirit after death that all the resurrected dead will have when the Lord returns in glory, though some will have this for eternal life in and with the Lord Jesus Christ in His Kingdom without end & others will have this for unending torment, due to their inability to experience God as light & joy, because they chose not to prepare their souls for this.
This life is given to us to prepare for eternity. So, let us do so now and until we die.
Does that include ex believers of the Roman Catholic faith? Can we pray for them that have died? That the deceiver of this world, deceived them into disbelief but to still have mercy on them? Is there hope in that? Please give your honest answer, good or bad 💞
Does an individual stay in hell forever father once dead or purgatory. Once judgement day comes they are sent to hell forever . Pls help in this confusion. Orthodox christian from india
I know at least one story of God responding to the prayers of a saint, and pulling a soul out of hell. God hears us all; but "the prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working." (James 5:16)
There is no purgatory, that doctrine was invented by the Roman Catholic church of the 13th century.
Everyone that dies will be resurrected at the Last Judgement. That is when Christ will determine who will live forever with Him, and who will not.
Purgatory is fake and made up.
Crossed Falcon, purgatory is a papalist heresy & as such the Orthodox Church rejects it.
Hell is eternal. There's no one in it yet. It isn't yet populated. It is for the demons & for those who freely chose to follow the devil/demons & became like demons, as opposed to those who freely chose to follow Christ & His Saints, in whom His Incarnation continues, & thus became Christ like.
Humans are created in God's image but we must, by grace, become Godlike, i.e., Christlike. It is to make us like Him that the Lord incarnated.
Both hades & paradise are populated now but will no longer be populated after the Lord's final judgment.
See below cut & paste from a different thread:
when Moses died, the demons tried to take him from the angels. Please go read it for yourself in the Holy Scripture.
And, before he was taken to be tried by the sanhedrin, the Lord said satan was coming for Him(! but remember satan didn't know Whom he was dealing with) but that satan had nothing on Him. Please go read it in Holy Scripture.
You think satan wouldn't be coming for us?
Crossed Falcon , please see cut & paste below.
@so&so, the Church teaches that when the Lord died on the Cross & was buried, He was in the grave bodily; in hades with His soul, as God; in paradise with the repentant thief [St Dismus] & on the throne with the Father & the Spirit.
That's what we, Orthodox, believe.
Btw, paradise is not heaven/the Kingdom of God.
See cut and paste below.
I haven't been able yet to listen to this, but will as soon as may be.
However, i know hell doesn't yet exist. It will exist only after the Lord's second coming & the final judgment. What exists now is hades. And it is for those in hades that the Orthodox Church prays.
Actually, we pray for all the dead, as, in most cases, we don't know whether they are in hades or paradise.
Once a saint is officially enlisted by a local Church as one glorifed by God, then we no longer pray for him/her, but rather ask for their prayers for us (pray to them to intercede for us), though the faithful know our God-bearing Saints as God-bearers in their lifetimes & venerate them as Saints, upon their death, which is the beginning of the process by which those glorified by God are officially enlisted as such, by the Church.
Just as hades is not hell, so too paradise is not the Kingdom of God. Those who will be on the Lord's right side on the Last Day will live eternally in the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the Kingdom without end.
Until such time, the only persons in God's Kingdom, besides the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity (One God, Three Persons), are the Lord's holy angels & the Theotokos, who already has the union of body & spirit after death that all the resurrected dead will have when the Lord returns in glory, though some will have this for eternal life in and with the Lord Jesus Christ in His Kingdom without end & others will have this for unending torment, due to their inability to experience God as light & joy, because they chose not to prepare their souls for this.
This life is given to us to prepare for eternity. So, let us do so now and until we die.
@@ericlammerman2777, no one has been pulled out of hell, as there's no one in it. Nor can anyone be pulled out of it when it is populated by the demons & those who freely chose to be like them, after the Lord's final judgment, as hell is eternal.
There's a lot of confusion in English because our language doesn't have a word for hades & so we make the mistake of saying hell to denote both hades & hell.
please see cut & paste below.
@so&so, the Church teaches that when the Lord died on the Cross & was buried, He was in the grave bodily; in hades with His soul, as God; in paradise with the repentant thief [St Dismus] & on the throne with the Father & the Spirit.
That's what we, Orthodox, believe.
Btw, paradise is not heaven/the Kingdom of God.
See cut and paste below from a different thread.
I haven't been able yet to listen to this, but will as soon as may be.
However, i know there's no one in hell. It isn't yet populated. It will be only after the Lord's second coming & the final judgment. What is populated now is hades, which will be emptied after the Lord's final judgment. It is for those in hades that the Orthodox Church prays.
Actually, we pray for all the dead, as, in most cases, we don't know whether they are in hades or paradise.
Once a saint is officially enlisted by a local Church as one glorifed by God, then we no longer pray for him/her, but rather ask for their prayers for us (pray to them to intercede for us), though the faithful know our God-bearing Saints as God-bearers in their very lifetimes & venerate them as Saints, upon their death, which is the beginning of the process by which those glorified by God are officially enlisted as such, by the Church.
Just as hades is not hell, so too paradise is not the Kingdom of God. Those who will be on the Lord's right side on the Last Day will live eternally in the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the Kingdom without end.
Until such time, the only persons in God's Kingdom, besides the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity (One God, Three Persons), are the Lord's holy angels & the Theotokos, who already has the union of body & spirit after death that all the resurrected dead will have when the Lord returns in glory, though some will have this for eternal life in and with the Lord Jesus Christ in His Kingdom without end & others will have this for unending torment, due to their inability to experience God as light & joy, because they chose not to prepare their souls for this.
This life is given to us to prepare for eternity. So, let us do so now and until we die.
Crossed Falcon , please see cut & paste below.
@so&so, the Church teaches that when the Lord died on the Cross & was buried, He was in the grave bodily; in hades with His soul, as God; in paradise with the repentant thief [St Dismus] & on the throne with the Father & the Spirit.
That's what we, Orthodox, believe.
Btw, paradise is not heaven/the Kingdom of God.
This topic is troubling. Scripture doesn't teach repentance after death. The story of Lazarus and rich man shows that once you on the next life that's it. We see examples of this, the 5 virgins, they were cast outside. We can have memories of them but I don't see anywhere in scripture to support this doctrine. Infact the opposite - danger of praying for the dead. This is dangerous.
There will be many "church goers" among the goats.
Why do some Orthodox Fathers wear the head covering hats, and some do the Sign of the Cross with Thumb against first two fingers, last two down against the palm --- and neither is done here with Father Josiah Trenham?
Wish that you would juxtapose the parable about the rich man and Lazarus upon this teaching. It seems as though hell does already exist, it seems as though the rich man’s situation is quite hopeless. It would be of great benefit to myself and others to learn how these seemingly contradictory examples support one another in truth.
What is seemingly contradictory?
Well first, in the story of Lazarus, it is said, "And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us." This means that the souls of men of their own will cannot move around in the different segments of hades or move from hades to heaven. This is because there is no repentance available to the souls of the departed in hades. However, God can, if the man had a good disposition in his life and there were some good deeds found, choose to forgive that person through the intercessions of others, especially the Church. There are in fact stories from the lives of the saints, where through the tearful entreaties of a righteous man, a soul in hades was completely delivered from bondage and transposed into the Kingdom of Heaven. Fore example, St. Mark of Ephesus tells us that the soul of Trajan was delivered from Hades through the tearful intercession of St. Basil the Great upon hearing of a great deed performed by Trajan.
Besides, if you read the story of St. Macarius and the skull of the pagan priest, it is revealed that praying for the departed can also have the effect of lessening the torments of hades and offering some reprieve to sinners. This is not insignificant, as the rich man begged for even one drop of water to alleviate his sufferings, and St. John Maximovitch tells us that one prayer for the suffering in hell is equivalent to one drop of water on the burning tongue of those in hades. Just as there are different degrees of blessedness in heaven, so there are different degrees of torments in hades.
@@orthodoxwitness2374, paradise, not heaven.
Please see cut and paste below from a different thread:
Hades is different from hell. There is no coming out of hell. But you are right hades is not purgatory, which, being a heresy, Orthodoxy rejects.
The Church teaches that when the Lord died on the Cross & was buried, He was in the grave bodily; in hades with His soul, as God; in paradise with the repentant thief [St Dismus] & on the throne with the Father & the Spirit.
That's what we, Orthodox, believe.
Btw, paradise is not heaven/the Kingdom of God.
See below from a different thread:
@__,
no one has been pulled out of hell, as there's no one in it. Nor can anyone be pulled out of it when, after the Lord's final judgment, it is populated by the demons & those who freely chose to be like them, as hell is eternal.
There's a lot of confusion in English because our language doesn't have a word for hades & so we make the mistake of saying hell to denote both hades & hell.
I haven't been able yet to listen to this, but will as soon as may be.
However, i know there's no one in hell. It isn't yet populated. It will be only after the Lord's second coming & the final judgment. What is populated now is hades, which will be emptied after the Lord's final judgment, just as paradise too will be emptied then. It is for those in hades that the Orthodox Church prays.
Actually, we pray for all the dead, as, in most cases, we don't know whether they are in hades or paradise.
Once a saint is officially enlisted by a local Church as one glorifed by God, then we no longer pray for him/her, but rather ask for their prayers for us (pray to them to intercede for us), though the faithful know our God-bearing Saints as God-bearers in their very lifetimes & venerate them as Saints, upon their death, which is the beginning of the process by which those glorified by God are officially enlisted as such, by the Church.
Just as hades is not hell, so too paradise is not the Kingdom of God. Those who will be on the Lord's right side on the Last Day will live eternally in the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the Kingdom without end.
Until such time, the only persons in God's Kingdom, besides the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity (One God, Three Persons), are the Lord's holy angels & the Theotokos, who already has the union of body & spirit after death that all the resurrected dead will have when the Lord returns in glory, though some will have this for eternal life in and with the Lord Jesus Christ in His Kingdom without end & others will have this for unending torment, due to their inability to experience God as light & joy, because they chose not to prepare their souls for this.
This life is given to us to prepare for eternity. So, let us do so now and until we die.
@@agiasf7330 The Kingdom of God is already here, present. One saint has even defined the Kingdom of God as life in the Holy Spirit. Since the Life of the Holy Spirit (e.g., the divine action, grace) is already present in Christ's Church on earth; therefore the Kingdom of God is already here. The Kingdom of God is a name that represents both the Church Triumphant and the Church Militant in the heavens. However, in the eschaton, these will be completely united in the Kingdom of Glory, when the elect will enjoy the fullness of the blessedness which now they only experience in part. While it is useful to distinguish the Kingdom of Grace that we experience now from the Kingdom of Glory in the age to come, it is not as if we can't use the words "heaven" or "The Kingdom of God" to refer to the state of the saints in heaven or the Church itself, or even the state within your own soul where God dwells. As Christ says, the Kingdom of God is within you, referring to the inner man's communion with God and his saints. What you've done is you've tried to pigeonhole two words into absolute categories when that isn't how the words are used in the life of the Church, where we can use the words "Heaven" and "Paradise" side by side. We literally say that the Orthodox liturgy is where "heaven and earth are united into one."
So these prayers help get souls out of hell? So its not the final hell?
Final judgment will happen at the 2nd coming. Prayers of the entire Church may liberate souls in the mean time.
I don't understand really why we must pray for those who are in hell or Hades because it supposed that after death nothing can change... I came from roman catholic Church and I Know the concept of purgatory...so then... Is there a kind of purgatory where souls can be purified and then enter to the Kingdom when Jesus comes and the final Judgement be fulfilled?
People can’t change after death but God can be merciful to them by our prayers.
Purgatory is fake.
We can't repent after death. But others, out of love, can pray to God for us. That is what the Church does.
Also we don't pray for anyone in hell, as there's no one yet in hell.
See below:
@__,
no one has been pulled out of hell, as there's no one in it. Nor can anyone be pulled out of it when, after the Lord's final judgment, it is populated by the demons & those who freely chose to be like them, as hell is eternal.
There's a lot of confusion in English because our language doesn't have a word for hades & so we make the mistake of saying hell to denote both hades & hell.
Please see cut & paste below from a different thread.
@so&so, the Church teaches that when the Lord died on the Cross & was buried, He was in the grave bodily; in hades with His soul, as God; in paradise with the repentant thief [St Dismus] & on the throne with the Father & the Spirit.
That's what we, Orthodox, believe.
Btw, paradise is not heaven/the Kingdom of God.
See cut and paste below from a different thread.
I haven't been able yet to listen to this, but will as soon as may be.
However, i know there's no one in hell. It isn't yet populated. It will be only after the Lord's second coming & the final judgment. What is populated now is hades, which will be emptied after the Lord's final judgment, just as paradise too will be emptied then. It is for those in hades that the Orthodox Church prays.
Actually, we pray for all the dead, as, in most cases, we don't know whether they are in hades or paradise.
Once a saint is officially enlisted by a local Church as one glorifed by God, then we no longer pray for him/her, but rather ask for their prayers for us (pray to them to intercede for us), though the faithful know our God-bearing Saints as God-bearers in their very lifetimes & venerate them as Saints, upon their death, which is the beginning of the process by which those glorified by God are officially enlisted as such, by the Church.
Just as hades is not hell, so too paradise is not the Kingdom of God. Those who will be on the Lord's right side on the Last Day will live eternally in the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the Kingdom without end.
Until such time, the only persons in God's Kingdom, besides the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity (One God, Three Persons), are the Lord's holy angels & the Theotokos, who already has the union of body & spirit after death that all the resurrected dead will have when the Lord returns in glory, though some will have this for eternal life in and with the Lord Jesus Christ in His Kingdom without end & others will have this for unending torment, due to their inability to experience God as light & joy, because they chose not to prepare their souls for this.
This life is given to us to prepare for eternity. So, let us do so now and until we die.
Crossed Falcon , please see cut & paste below.
@so&so, the Church teaches that when the Lord died on the Cross & was buried, He was in the grave bodily; in hades with His soul, as God; in paradise with the repentant thief [St Dismus] & on the throne with the Father & the Spirit.
That's what we, Orthodox, believe.
Btw, paradise is not heaven/the Kingdom of God.
Is it permissible to bring the names of my departed loved ones who were not Orthodox?
They cannot be offered in prayers at the altar; but the priest can include those names in prayers he offers in the nave during panakhida or akathists.
They cannot be commemorated in the liturgy but Orthodox monasteries, priests, & laity can pray for them. As Orthodox, we pray (& should pray) for everyone.
May the Lord have mercy on your departed dear ones!
Luke 16 is clear that Lazarus was transported to Abraham's bossom, he wasn't taking a roundabout journey. The rich man died as well, and lifted up his eyes in hell. No prayer will change the eternal destination of any soul. This life is the time of Grace, where we make our decision.
This is a strawman of the Catholic position and purgatory. Not every person goes through purgatory. Some go straight to hell some go straight to heaven (saints). Your example does not represent purgatory, assuming that is what it was meant for.
@srich7503 Purgatory is not mentioned once in scripture that I have ever found. The thief on the cross was a horrible human, yet that same day he entered paradise with Christ. He didn't go through a purifying torment or journey, he went to paradise.
@@JWM5791 Like i said some do and some dont. But even the Thief on still could have you dont know. The time of Purgatory is not in human time. Ad whether it is or is not mentioned in the Bible it certainly is just as much as the fullness of the Trinity is, but you will have to use the correct lens. To know which lens that is…
History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, - the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, - the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century, - not only did they not agree but their individual lists of would-be NT canons were GROWING during this time, growing in numbers of hundreds of “inspired” NT writings.
Therefore, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 5th century with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved it by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us who did? And if this church no longer exists today, what good is the text which came forth from her if she couldn't sustain herself?
Are you saying that God needs our prayers and petitions (or he's waiting on us to pray) in order to move his arm for those in hades? If so that doesn't make sense honestly
Like the idea of making appeals to God in order to persuade or twist his arm doesn't make any sense. He loves them more than we do
Please tell me if I'm hearing you wrong, because it's a silly idea
If no one is judged till second coming, how can souls be in hell?
They are getting a foretaste of things to come.
The premise (if no one is judge till second coming) is not according to the Orthodox Tradition. The final (ultimate judgment) happens at the second coming. But after our death there's a precursory judgment, when we are accommodated either near or far from the Divine Presence, according to our spiritual condition. Near is "similar" to Heaven, and far otherwise. Fr. Josiah explains it very clearly.
There is the final judgement, but first the foretaste of either heaven or hell- best to consult the fathers on this and your priest if you are Orthodox.
A. Fizz, no one is in hell.
See below cut and paste from a different thread.
@G.TheGreek79 ,
no one has been pulled out of hell, as there's no one in it. Nor can anyone be pulled out of it when, after the Lord's final judgment, it is populated by the demons & those who freely chose to be like them, as hell is eternal.
There's a lot of confusion in English because our language doesn't have a word for hades & so we make the mistake of saying hell to denote both hades & hell.
Please see cut & paste below from a different thread.
@so&so, the Church teaches that when the Lord died on the Cross & was buried, He was in the grave bodily; in hades with His soul, as God; in paradise with the repentant thief [St Dismus] & on the throne with the Father & the Spirit.
That's what we, Orthodox, believe.
Btw, paradise is not heaven/the Kingdom of God.
See cut and paste below from a different thread.
I haven't been able yet to listen to this, but will as soon as may be.
However, i know there's no one in hell. It isn't yet populated. It will be only after the Lord's second coming & the final judgment. What is populated now is hades, which will be emptied after the Lord's final judgment, just as paradise too will be emptied then. It is for those in hades that the Orthodox Church prays.
Actually, we pray for all the dead, as, in most cases, we don't know whether they are in hades or paradise.
Once a saint is officially enlisted by a local Church as one glorifed by God, then we no longer pray for him/her, but rather ask for their prayers for us (pray to them to intercede for us), though the faithful know our God-bearing Saints as God-bearers in their very lifetimes & venerate them as Saints, upon their death, which is the beginning of the process by which those glorified by God are officially enlisted as such, by the Church.
Just as hades is not hell, so too paradise is not the Kingdom of God. Those who will be on the Lord's right side on the Last Day will live eternally in the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the Kingdom without end.
Until such time, the only persons in God's Kingdom, besides the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity (One God, Three Persons), are the Lord's holy angels & the Theotokos, who already has the union of body & spirit after death that all the resurrected dead will have when the Lord returns in glory, though some will have this for eternal life in and with the Lord Jesus Christ in His Kingdom without end & others will have this for unending torment, due to their inability to experience God as light & joy, because they chose not to prepare their souls for this.
This life is given to us to prepare for eternity. So, let us do so now and until we die.
Crossed Falcon , please see cut & paste below.
@so&so, the Church teaches that when the Lord died on the Cross & was buried, He was in the grave bodily; in hades with His soul, as God; in paradise with the repentant thief [St Dismus] & on the throne with the Father & the Spirit.
That's what we, Orthodox, believe.
Btw, paradise is not heaven/the Kingdom of God.
I imagine it's very similar to the way that we experience hell on earth right now.
Biblicaly speaking, people who are dead are not in hell or paradise before the second death if my memory is good
For the wages of sin is death; (not hell;) but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
{Romans 6:23}
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such *the second death* hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
{Revelation 20:6}
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. *This is the second death*
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
{Revelation 20:14-15}
Turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha *into ashes* condemned them with an overthrow, making them *an ensample* unto those that after should live ungodly;
{2 Peter 2:6}
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are *set forth for an example* suffering the vengeance of *eternal fire*
{Jude 1:7}
(Sodom is not still burning, so it is not the fire / punishment that is eternal, but rather the consequences thereof.)
And ye [the saints] shall tread down the wicked; for *they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet* in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
{Malachi 4:3}
Thou [satan] hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and *I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth* in the sight of all them that behold thee.
{Ezekiel 28:18}
What do you imagine against the LORD? He will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.
{Nahum 1:9}
That is your destination
Are you playing "god" by judging people.? So shall you be judged by the standards you just set.!
Aren't all saved individuals "saints" biblically? Almost the whole new testament calls those in Christ "Saints"? Does the Orthodox church mean something different by "saint"?
We pray for those in purgatory not hell.
There is no purgatory.
We reject the heresy of purgatory.
We pray for those in hades. It is not the same thing.
Purgatory is not the teaching of the Church.
26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.
Matthew 5 26
WHERE IN THE BIBLE SAYS THAT WE SHOULD PRAY FOR PEOPLE IN HELL ?
Let me guess... you did not even listen to the video.
2 Maccabees 12:43-45
43.And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachms of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem, to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection.
44.For if he were not expecting that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead.
45.But if that he were looking to the reward of splendour that is laid up for those that die godly, it was a holy and godly thought. **Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.**
Apostle Paul himself tells us in scripture to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. The word immediately doesn't have to be there because it is implied. Just like the word Trinity is not in the Bible but we know it's implied. No church has the authority to canonize a believer and make them a saint. The Bible clearly refers to believers as saints and that's how Paul and others address believers in the Bible. The Bible clearly tells us it is appointment to men to die once and then it's judgement. There is no point praying for those in hell after they die...so your doctrine is a form of purgatory while Orthodox says they don't believe in purgatory. We have no say so after someone dies and there is nothing we can do for their repentance. What kind of weird doctrine is this? You don't find this anywhere in the Bible.
I deeply respect Fr. Josiah and am edified greatly by his profound knowledge and remarkable zeal for the faith, but I completely disagree with what was said in this particular video. It's not Protestant doctrine to believe one is in paradise in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ upon departure from the flesh; it is Biblical doctrine as we hear our Lord Himself saying to the thief on the cross, " *today* you'll be with Me in paradise." With all due respect to any saint who claimed the soul to be on a 40-day journey following death, I'm going to believe the words of the Lord of Glory Himself. The entire concept of the aerial toll-houses is blasphemous, it's quite strange to me how any Christian can accept it. Any teaching that breeds fear of demons or yields any power to them whatsoever is a demonic teaching, and we can clearly see how this teaching ultimately serves the evil one by looking at how many souls despair in their salvation and are lost as a result of it. "Who shall bring a charge against God's elect?" says St. Paul. "It is God who justifies, who is it then who condemns?" If anyone deserved to go through this "process" of torment and judgment, it would be the thief on the cross who had spent his entire life in sin till his last few breaths, yet it is he who was "today" in paradise with the Lord. If you notice, those who preach this blasphemous toll-house doctrine almost never have any mention at all of our Lord's Cross nor its redemptive power. When angels try defending a soul against the accusations of the enemy in the aerial realms under this heresy, they try searching through the soul's deeds so as to "pay off" demons for the sins committed. Since when have we owed anything to cursed demons? Since when did they have any authority over God's children whose sins are covered by the blood of His Son? It seems that people who preach this blasphemous doctrine only give verbal credence to the Cross but it's entirely absent from their theology and powerless in their sight. If the Lord Jesus Christ Himself is our Savior and Propitiation and has given command to save us, what creature in heaven or on earth can hinder that after He's granted us authority to tread on serpents and scorpions and upon all the powers of the enemy? Nothing is more shameful and schizophrenic than for a true baptized Christian who is living their whole life in conformity and submission to the Lord's commandments, is indwelt by His Holy Spirit, and unites to His life through the parking of His body and blood to then be fearful of death or doubtful in any sense of his/her salvation by the grace and mercy of our Lord. Placing judgment authority in the hands of accursed creatures as the toll-house doctrine does cheapens our Lord's blood and eternal redemption. May no Christian ever be found doing so. By the way, I'm an Orthodox Christian, not a Protestant. God bless Fr. Josiah's ministry and continue using him to the glory of His most-holy Name.
The thief is regarded as a Saint in the Orthodox tradition and as Fr. Josiah said in the video we can only say that Saints are *forsure* with Christ now in paradise. If there is no journey that the soul takes after death then we should ask ourselves why we would even pray for the souls of the reposed in the first place. Accusing someone of blasphemy is a very serious charge and not something to be thrown around lightly.
@@lthaduke2502 Every baptized Christian who is striving to live his/her whole life for the Lord, is indwelt by His Holy Spirit, and unites to Him and to His Resurrection in the Eucharist is a saint according to Scripture. Nothing is more schizophrenic than a faithful Christian who believes and chants "Christ is risen" and yet continues to fear death and the powers of darkness which have been trampled beneath our feet through our Lord's Cross. Also, I apologize if my words were misunderstood- I'm not accusing any individual of blasphemy, but the aerial toll house doctrine is a blasphemous doctrine for it places the power of judgment in the hands of accursed creatures who were once for all stripped of their power on Golgotha. Our souls are in the hands of our Savior to whom is due all dominion and glory, who shed His blood as a propitiation for our sins. No one who believes in Him shall ever be put to shame.
@@mariammrizkalla5187 the Scriptures and Tradition are not opposed to one another. Again if there is no journey the soul takes after death, then it makes no sense to pray for the dead. What that journey actually is? Im not sure. From what ive seen from my time in Orthodoxy is that there is no debate whether or not the soul has a journey after death, but the debate is *what* that journey exactly is.
@@lthaduke2502 Most definitely, Scripture and Biblical Tradition ought never contradict, but in the case where they do happen to contradict, a Christian must go with Scripture. If tradition is biblical and belongs under Holy Tradition, it must align with God's Word. Scripture does speak of a "procession" so to speak of the departing soul by angels to paradise, but it isn't some 40-day journey through which the soul's destiny is uncertain or in which it passes through demonic judgment stations as taught by the most commonly held view of the aerial toll houses which has no Scriptural basis whatsoever and in fact plainly contradicts Scripture and cheapens our Savior's blood. Believing a faithful Christian to be in paradise isn't "self-canonization," it's our Christian hope which is the only anchor for our souls. We believe the words of our Lord that all who believe in Him and love Him faithfully unto the end shall not taste death but have already passed from death to life. It is our Father's good pleasure to grant us His Kingdom. A true Christian should not be uncertain of their destiny or fearful of what our Savior has already defeated and conquered. Asking the Lord to remember our departed loved ones is a gesture flowing out of the love and motherhood of the Church; we ought to remember them as they also remember us before the throne of grace as members of the One Body. It has nothing to do with aerial toll houses or any such unbiblical doctrines
He says “truly I tell you today”, as in, I’m telling you RIGHT NOW. Jesus didn’t go to paradise when He died. He went to Hell, actually (but not the way that normally implies). why would Jesus tell the thief he would go to Heaven with Him…if He wasn’t going to Heaven? you would know this if you are actually orthodox.
1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw - each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
This is a clear and obvious allusion to purgatory. Thus thought St. Cyprian, St. Ambrose, St. Jerome, Pope St. Gregory the Great, Origen, and St. Augustine, who wrote with his usual insight: “Because it is said, he shall be saved, that fire is thought lightly of. For all that, though we should be saved by fire, yet will that fire be more grievous than anything that man can suffer in this life
Prayer does nothing for those in hell. Why are you saying this? How can you prove anything will change for those who have passed? You cannot!
Just as you, by your standards, can't prove that it doesn't.... remember who asked for proofs in the Gospel.!
The state of the dead according to the word of God.
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof *thou shalt surely die*
{Genesis 2:17}
Man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
...
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their *sleep*
O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, *until thy wrath be past* that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait,
👉till my change come.
...
His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.
{Job 14:10, 12-14 & 21}
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my *flesh* shall I see God.
{Job 19:26}
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
{The Preacher 9:10}
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
{Psalm 146:3-4}
Then said his disciples, Lord, if he *sleep* he shall do well.
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Then said Jesus unto them plainly, "Lazarus is dead."
{John 11:12-14}
...
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection
👉at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet *shall* he live:"
{John 11:24-25}
But go thou thy way till the end be: for *thou shalt rest* and stand in thy lot *at the end of the days*
{Daniel 12:13}
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him *should not perish* but have everlasting life.
{John 3:16}
And *the serpent said* unto the woman, *Ye shall not surely die*
{Genesis 3:4}
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down *in the midst of the stones of fire*
{Isaiah 28:14}
^
(satan always turns the tables on God, for he is the father of lies.)
The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
{Isaiah 33:14-15}
If anyone errors in their understanding of this doctrine of the dead, then they will in no way be led to the understanding of the truth, for it will be a stumblingblock unto the decernment of spiritual things, including soilterology and eschatology.
This is not good news. This is not the Gospel that brings you hope. This is depressing. I was bound by deep cords of sin for a long time. And even though I do the fasting and the prayers and I go to Confession and take of the Sacraments, I still cannot overcome my sins. Therefore, when I die, I will have to say that I will die poorly and then if I have no one to pray for me at all. How will I ever escape the wrath of God? Where is the hope in all of this? Where is the joy that the Gospel is supposed to bring that - God is truly merciful and forgives the sins of all and rescue us all.
This weekend I was called a heretic because I have the audacity to believe that God's mercy extends to all and he will eventually save all. That is the Gospel that brings hope. That is the Gospel that brings joy. But I am told I am not allowed to believe in that Gospel because it's heresy. If it is heresy, how come there are saints in the Church that believed it and taught it, such as Saint Isaac the, Syrian and Saint Gregory of Nyssa.
They have never been condemned by the Church or in any council for teaching Universalism. Yet I am told I am a heretic because I believe as these saints believed.
No Roman Catholic purgatory huh? Are you absolutely sure about that priest?
I sure hope so because this is what you are teaching. I don't claim to know. I'm just in enquirer. Christ's Church is either in the East or the West. It's a curious thing. Keep up the good work and may our Lord bless you and your family 👉✝️✝️✝️
Read the book “Life after death” by Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos for a very very detailed answer to your questions.
The RC doctrine of purgatory implies 1) there's an additional place that houses souls that is neither heaven nor hell and 2) You perform penance (or others perform it for you) in the afterlife for an indefinite period of time, until you "earn" your way into heaven. That is not the Orthodox teaching, so it is not what Father Trenham is teaching.
Purgatory is probably closer to Orthodox teaching than the Protestant belief that we go directly to heaven or hell, in a certain respect; but it is NOT the same. Purgatory is yet another attempt by the RC church to define a mystery, adding a layer of materialistic thinking in the process and warping the truth.
The Orthodox teaching is, simply, that there is a (perilous) forty-day journey to your ultimate destination. That destination is largely fixed by how one lives on earth; but our prayers, and the prayers of the saints, can help shift things (according to God's will). Paying indulgences (a doctrine created shortly after the doctrine of purgatory in the RC church) will NOT shift things.
You need much clarification my friend, because he is absolutely not teaching pergatory! I will try to help u better understand a bit, but you should honestly contact a local Orthodox priest for a better clarification.
He is saying that after death, there is no repentance. Once you are dead, that's it. This is why we pray for the departed. We pray for the Lord to show mercy upon the faithful who may have not led their life carefully in observing our Lord's commandments and have found themselves in hell after death.
But just because we pray for the Lord to show mercy to them, does not mean that He will, and it does not mean that every person that is prayed for will be taken out of hell.
The fact is exactly what Fr. Josiah stated, we do not know who went to heaven and who went to hell. So, out of the love that we have for mankind, we pray for Him to have mercy upon those that may have found themselves in hell, in the hope that they will receive that mercy and be taken to heaven. This is absolutely nothing like the fictional purgatory that was created by the catholics.
I again implore you to look into this matter further with an Orthodox priest, and to look into Church history so that you may find the truth of Orthodoxy!
I pray that the Lord shines His face brightly upon you and your family, now and always!☦️
Father is teaching the great teaching of the Holy Church from the beginning. We have assurance in it. Rome developed purgatory from Dante’s Inferno: a poem. However, still, we all are recognizing a nonstatic existence, a journey. It has always been so.
I once was a confused Roman C. When I came home to the Orthodox Church, I learned a lot had been changed by the RC, which cannot be, according to the One True Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church founded by our Lord Jesus Christ (Very Important: not a man-made church). Jesus gave us One Church only Not 50,000. Please "Come and See" the One True Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church.
May the Lord guide you to His Church through your prayers.
Hey, you're here, that's a step.
Can someone skool me on Orthodoxy here?
Thanks;
Praying for Hell? Like Sheol? Purgatory?
Or the damned in tartorus or gehenna?
... I think e.g Richard Ramirez the nightstalker and Alestar Crowley the sadist pedophile are pretty rightfully gone.
Eh Allistar Crowley had terrible upbringing so we could make excuses for him. Dude was a pupil of founder of dispensationalism himself, Darby, so him going astray unfortunately ain't that odd.
@@djurote3932 - crowley had a rich aristocratic upbringing and was a spoiled sick kid.
@@djurote3932 - Crowley was a spoiled rich kid.
What the hell are U saying?
Nobody cares but me and Richard Ramirez had a bad childhood but actually Nobody had a bad childhood unless they were raped or maimed. This is the western world, everyone is spoiled simps
@@Cata-Holic_Doode yes, but his spiritual father was Darby, guy that invented dispensationalism
@@djurote3932 - his spiritual father was Egyptian gods of death and iwas the entity he channeled and he was a chomo
From a RC point of view this is heresy and should be disregarded !!
Thief shouting "catch that thief.!"
Demons cannot tempt you after death. That's saying god doesn't have command of your soul. Only god decides were you go.
Is Hades not divided for some reasons?
Hades for the righteous, hades for the wicked and hades for those who are not that righteous Christians?