The COMPLETE Guide To Combat In Manor Lords
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- Combat Database: melodious-entree-b4a.notion.s...
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00:00 - Intro
00:18 - All Combat Stats Explained (Impale, Shield Block, Etc.)
01:33 - All Militia Unit Stats (No Armor, Helmet Only, Helmet + Gambeson, Helmet + Mail)
03:57 - Armor Upgrade Recap
04:59 - Retinue (Base Unit & Upgraded Version)
05:45 - All Mercenary Units Explained (Stats, Cost, Etc.)
07:20 - All Stances & Abilities Tested & Explained (Push Forward is the BEST)
10:34 - Testing All Stances, Fatigue & Hill Effect on Combat, etc. (Testing & Data)
12:30 - Testing All Militia Units In Battle (Including Line Vs. Square Shape)
15:23 - Testing All Units Vs. 4x Raiders For Armor Effectiveness (Unarmored, Helmet, Helmet Gambeson, Helmet Mail, Base Retinue, Upgraded Retinue)
18:47 - Final Thoughts, Recap & Extra Tips 
Игры
I’ve been living off your guides the last week, I keep watching other guides and see them making mistakes that you had already solved through your intense testing. You’re the man!
Thanks! Glad you're getting use out of these :)
He is strat gaming after all!
That's something I've noticed. A lot of people making guides. But most of them aren't accurate
@@CubeInspector theyre interested in pushing out content and this isnt unique to manor lords. all games are drowning in "guides" and "top 10 best x", yadda yadda.
@@CubeInspector one guide i watched recommended you put your granary and storehouse far from your town so its "out of the way" XD Strat would be rolling in his grave
As someone who makes YT content and has videos where I stitch multiple recorded videos together, set times stamps, place text/pictures over certain parts, I can say as fact this 20:51 video took you a loooong time and the result is fantastic!
strat has always had high effort vids, a beast
@@moleg0dmachine724 What few I've watched (came after Manor Lords) I would have to agree.
I did video editing 15 years ago and it would take a week of 5 people to do this.
Honestly manor lords, while not designed to be a medieval strategy game, has great mechanics, especially military losses being able to cripple the entire working force of a village
Man, your dedication for this game is astronomical, I can see how much you love researching. I bet you're the type of guy who loves min-maxing any game you play. Thank you for this information!
Thanks for watching! I love to minmax on paper, but when I'm actually playing I find it too tedious lol I like to know that optional is and maybe go 90% of the way because that last 10% has a massively submitted return. But I do enjoy being very close to optimal!
I don't know if my original comment worked ( I can't see it) but it is worth noting that per the wiki, retinue stats vary based on the amount of polearm and shield users it generates.
Per the wiki: "the overall stats of the retinue may vary slightly due to differing weapon distribution - for example having more polearm wielding retinue will lead to having a higher charge and anti armor value, and not having any, sets anti armor to 0."
Interesting, I knew they had random loadouts but didn't realize those loadouts actually effected their stats! Good to know, thank you for the heads up
Yea, I been noticing that after a few run. You are suppose to be able to customize them to the teef but not at this moment. A full retinue of polearms going to be devastated at anything they charge at. Preferably from behind.
OMG Strat.......this is a high quality video. Thanks so much. I have been doing everything wrong and losing two men per battle. I have been using "hold ground" and a square formation. I feel so fortunate that you like all the same games I do, your analysis is off the charts. KCD2 will get the "Strat Attack" too no question and I reckon it could be quite complex, be interesting to observe the fight mechanics.... Thanks again 😁
Yeah squares are once again nerfed hard lol I guess it makes sense because it allows the enemy to outnumber you on a man to man battle and get flanked easier. For sure, KCD2 will get broken down and data-dumped as soon as possible :D
I wish I could click that LIKE button a dozen times. I've not experienced combat yet (will soon, as I enter third year). I needed...NEEDED...a guide like this THANK YOU!
wow. this is such valuable information. thank you for the time you've invested intro researching this
Thank you, thank you for all the time and meticulous testing. Your Manor Lords videos are the most in-depth and reliable content out there, and I treasure them.
Glad you like them!
Simply the best. You validate your recommendations with solid methodology while highlighting the limitations of your tests. Good stuff!
From what I’ve noticed hold ground does make a difference for spears specifically if they’re at low unit numbers. With 12-14 units they hardly if at all take losses to a unit of outlaws but if in balanced they will take losses
Yeah I'm surprised at how effective stand ground is at stopping the charge!
You are by far making the best Manor Lords videos! Keep up the good work
Such a thorough job, great work!
Thank you!
This combat breakdown video is the definitive guide to Manor Lords units and fighting. Awesome work!
Thank you so much! How in depth! Yesterday, I successfully held off two bandit attacks but then one of the other lords laid claim to my land which wasn't going to fly with me so of course challenged to battle. Let's say it did not go so well....
Nice indepth guide, you are my go to source for Manor Lords videos! Curious how Greg will improve and expand the game in the future, videos like this will certainly be a great help in his analysis!
Admirable testing analysis! 👏👏
Sooo, what you're saying is... civilians or anyone armed with weapons fight better! I get it now! Haha. I am so newb when playing this, and I'm very thankful for your videos/guides! They are exceptional in quality my friend. Well done, and thank you very much!
✌🏼❤☯️
My man is a true scientist
I knew sooner or later this video will pop up on my feed. And for every manor lord patches to come. Cheers
Excited for cavalry
Thank you very much, now I finally know why my dudes did not put on that sweet mailarmor. Level 3 then, check!😅
Huh, I'm not sure if it's explained in game at all, but equipment being limited by burgage plot size is something that makes sense in hindsight, but it's something I'd think would be the case without doing some digging.
I intuitively put my spearmen on Stand your ground when brigands were attacking, switching to Push forward after their charge. That seems to fit your tests. My point is that I think it is intended that you keep switching their stance during battle to accommodate for changing circumstances.
Actually my (10) retinue got stuck fighting two 32 size groups (noob) and I got them out by switching to give ground stance. This allowed them to rejoin the rest of my troops
I love seeing my own natural findings from just playing the game be verified lmao
Good video mate
in saying that, my go to has been a full army of spears holding a 2 rank line and stand ground until the enemy charge. From memory with spears on push forward both the first and second rank will attack. However I can't confirm this. Curious to test it now though
I also use heavy reintue as a flank as despite your testing they always seem to run faster, could br a placebo though.
Nice work doing this testing, excellent data.
It hurts to see that the pole arm isn’t simply the staple for defense. In traditional context the pole arm is usually the defensive keystone of a frontline. Being used on the flanks only in defense of calvary charges. Maybe a feature for polearms like “set poles” to have extra charge attack deflection and more of like (if charged in this stance the charging enemy is damaged twice as much) or “poke through” offensive measures where they can stack in two or three lines and all lines three deep can atttack instead of being almost useless if you’re not the first line. Just my 2 cents, any time I played the total war games (yes I know they’re AAA studios and those battles are nearly thousands of troops per battle) they had the mechanics down at least. Love manor lords, just maybe if he can focus on certain mechanics over others? Would love other stuff fleshed out over combat possibly too since I know he’s only one person right now haha
Outstanding work yet again!
My militia never wore Mail - I didn’t realise it was to do with burgage plot 3 lol I was raging so much haha
Ayo, thanks for the advice but I really need a complete guide on combat. cause I watched you do things, like the formation change and moving multiple units at once, that I didn't even know was possible.
Hi @Strat-Guides. I'm back from Banner lord to Manor lord with the help of your guides.
Challenge idea:
One road town
Interesting - I've seen that done in other games and it looks like fun. I was thinking 0 roads actually but that's pretty much a regular run but slightly slower carts.
“I’ll discuss archers when they are changed” experimental patch out within 24 hours lol
Yeah good timing lol Archers are much better now! My advice at the end of the video still stands - don't shoot from a long distance. Instead, save stamina for a quick flank and get arrows into their unprotected side and backs.
Fighting in woods is also very confusing. My last raid was coming in to my land but any hill position was woods. As it was far from where I would ever want that wood I cleared the hilltop with farmland which I then deleted. Cheating🤔? All fair in love and war!! Great work on your part!
It would be interesting to test a combination of Friendly Fire + Arrow Defence. For example, your front line of Spearmen is receiving an enemy attack, you command your Archers to shoot the enemy from a flank or even from a position behind the Spearmen, with Friendly Fire Allowed, while the Spearmen are switched to Arrow Defence to prevent damage from the friendly fire.
Great video, as usual.
Battle and war in Manor Lords is bad and needs to be short, quick and decisive. It can be cunducted in 3 short phases. Find, Fix and Destroy. Footmen are the best unit for this. 6 footmen will get to the battle fast, i.e Find the enemy. 3 units will charge the enemy and Fix them in mele. 3 units will flank the enemy and Destroy them. Then they will run back and harvest barley because we need beer to celebrate.
Hopefully they do the update to archers soon. Thanks for the breakdown!
They just released early build on the betas tab and they buffed archers damage by 3x. We're back in business!
@@Strat-Guides great!
I'd like to see an EVERYTHING Guide to Combat video for Super Mario Brothers (the original) please.
Damn you made this right before the major update
I'm on the new patch right now - they buffed archers by 3x (which I covered in the video). Nothing else changed regarding combat from what I can tell so far
Great work! Liked and Subbed
Much appreciated!
Ditto --- thank you @Strat-Guides
Well now I know why my archer units don’t seem to do much. Too bad since they are the cheapest to get early on. Now I know what to focus on to keep the boys alive.
Yeah it's a shame - they were so good in the last patch! They will make a comeback though
this is gold! ty
extra weight helps gives mass for that initial clash, on top of being able to be a bit more reckless. It is a traditional thing for tabletop/wargames to slightly boost charge with with armor increases.
Then why no +1 charge for gambeson with helmet? :*(
@@Strat-Guides the AC boost from the other armor is a lot more, and rightfully so as chain is much tougher than thick cloth.
@@jamoecw it's a while btw, hope you're You're doing well Jamoe!
@@Strat-Guides doing okay, things have picked up military wise now that Biden is in and work has increased due to the cut in operational funding. On top of that I found out that it takes an act of congress (literally) for the VA to do its job when the military causes medical issues that you can't just fix yourself.
Amazing video, only thing I can think of that you missed is your personal opinion on what units to pick to fill out your 6 militia slots
True - I guess any combination could work in theory, assuming you play to each unit's strengths. IMO - 3 spears, 1-2 archers and 1-2 polearm/footmen would be ideal
@@Strat-Guides the archers even in their current state or if they get de-nerfed.
I'm kind of curious if having two or three ranks instead of a line or a square would have any effects. Would the troops push forward there or are there not enough 'gaps' in the line for them to fill in and flanking around is better?
I am also curious about the tests against the baron's mercenaries and retinue as it seems the bandits are generally the lowest tier troops overall. Could you at least test one on one fights be having your other troops distract the others?
With the beta patch buffing archers, footmen seem to have a niche role for charging into them while not taking as much damage from arrow fire but are otherwise just general all rounders. Retinue are even more so at the cost of having low stamina from their heavy armor and generally being expensive. Polearms are the cheap way to murder enemy retinue and specialize in charging into the enemy flanks. And finally spears are your line holders for fixing the enemies position for the rest of your troops.
It seems the ideal strategy is to have a spear wall to hold their ground against the initial enemy charge, while having your retinue, footmen and polearms in reserve to go and charge into their flanks.
How do you see your unit placement after a command? Did you hold a button down or was it just because you're paused? I'm talking about 9:55 where you're commanding your troops to run one at a time and you can still see where they're running to after giving the command.
press/hold tab
If you hold tab, it will show you their movement and final location!
@@Strat-Guides thank you, tab is the magic button apparently.
4:53, way too early upgrade to higher tier houses may lead to significant approval drop, as next tier wont meet the new demands.
It's definitely a balancing act!
I don't own the game but it feels like I've already played it after watching the last ten videos, lol
Your videos have been great, thanks for your efforts. I liked this game but I think it is too early for me as the bugs are frustrating me. So I will revisit it when it has been further developed.
thanks!
7:20 - During testing different combat stances, the "Running" button was pushed. Could this cause different stances not working or/and additional fatigue? Maybe it would be better to release the "Run" button before fighting?
Good observation! I did test for that and there's no difference from what I could tell - the run function only works when they are moving around the map. When they are in melee, they are mostly stationary and when they do move to engage the next enemy, they don't sprint to get to them.
@@Strat-Guides Thank you for the clarification!
Another question :) As I understood, a helmet alone helps with survivability a little, is that correct? However, do gambesons and mail armours work without helmets? Or do they add less protection in such case?
@@BiglerSakura I didn't test gambeson and mail without a helmet, but my guess is each item you add will give more protection so gambeson without a helmet will be worse than gambeson with a helmet.
the god is back!
Sorry, probably I don't know all the combat controls well, but you use the term Counter Charge and also said "clicking attack". Are there special commands/buttons for that, or it's just moving towards the enemy in the Pushing Forward mode?
Sorry, I didn't make a good distinction for that - my mistake! Counter charge basically means double clicking the enemy units (which puts them into push forward mode and turns on sprinting) or turning on sprint and click on enemy unit to start the attack. Both will result in your units charging at the enemy.
@@Strat-Guides Hopefully, in this case sprinting results in just running fast towards the enemy in order to attack them faster and stronger, and doesn't generate fatigue.
BTW, are there situations when an enemy unit is standing and waiting for you to attack them or they always start attacking when you approach? (I know archers may run away.)
When im in war i stand ground so they get impailed when they charge and right after i go pushforward to finnish it off btw i followed your tut on how to build a city and loved it same with ck3 :D
cool vid bro
Strat Gaming Complete Guides 🎉
Warfare is incredibly easy in the game. 3-4 militias can rip through anything easily. one archer stack to lure people away from the main force and 2-3 stacks of any militia that stand in a V shape to encircle the enemy with a 3rd closing the deal has been an incredibly effective tactic for me.
I don't really struggle with winning battles at this point, the most important part about combat for me is currently how to maximize reinforcement speed...any thoughts on this?
nitpick but wouldn't "low fatigue" be good? Since fatigue is a word one uses to describe how exhausted someone is? People say "I feel very fatigued" and that means exhausted, so then "high fatigue" is what is actually meant?
I know what you mean and I struggled with how to word it. The game labels your "stamina" as a fatigue meter - so if you have high fatigue, then your meter is full and troops are fresh. If they have low fatigue, meter is more and they are tired. IMO it's a very bad name the Dev picked lol it's counter intuitive
I have not found the retinue to be very effective at all. Despite their OP stats, they are of very little use in battle. I recently watched 18 bandits wade through 24 fully armored retinue like they weren't even there. I had the retinue stand ground to recieve the charge then pushed forward about 10 second after initial contact. I am also finding some units ignoring commands or moving to positions other than where ordered. As an old soldier, troops that don't follow commands really test my patience.
Cohesion is extremely janky, it might have been a combination of the bandits for some reason wrecking the cohesion of the retinue and also: stamina doesn't affect bandits (probably an oversight from the developer), meaning that if you start to lose stamina before a battle, the bandits will have that much more of an advantage, because they always have perfect stamina.
A 12 stack of tier 1 retinue can already destroy an 18 stack of brigands with no losses, I've done that repeatedly to farm influence against the baron. I'm very sure you either ran into some bug, or send them into battle with high fatigue. The problem with retinue is like militia they rally while sprinting, but they have far less stamina and you can easily tank their combat effectiveness this way if you don't let them rest up first. Pretty much never let them sprint unless it's a decisive charge.
@@perrytran9504 I think you underestimate how random cohesion can be
OMG YES YES
random but it is so easy to out pace Gambesons, I recommend players completely skip having a tailor
My only concern there now is with the new kings tax - having a lot of tier 3 plots will force you into the higher tax bracket where you're paying 5g per person to wear the mail. It's an interesting way to balance the game for sure
How do you actually sustain lvl 3 plots though? Ale is such a bottleneck when I play and inter-region trade is janky.
I've been testing archers on the new beta patch and if I get a flank or a back attack they nearly insta-route anything they shoot at on the default difficulty and scenario.
Yeah they are pretty close to what they were before, except their damage from a distance is really bad. I noticed they count towards the "surrounded by enemies" debuff even though they aren't in melee so that helps a lot
Sweet
Do raids continue getting more difficult each year or does it peak?
It peaks at 4x raiders. It starts at 1 and goes up by 1 I think (from what I remember)
Thanks for getting this guide out so quickly. You've confirmed a lot that I've discovered, especially the polearms.
Purely vibes based, but during battle, archers just seem to manuver a bit quicker than the other militia units. Obviously not an empirical measurement. 😅
What would i like to see improved or changed? After the obvious archer de-nerf, the battle map symbol sticking on after victory is annoying.
And I want cavalry, because it is awesome!
I always used Stand to receive the charge then go to balanced and after the enemy takes a few more losses go to push.
Hope the dev can use this information to balance everything
Whenever I used polearms alone, they got slaughtered. This video proves they suck. So players should only use spearman holding single line with footmen behind them to push forward after spearman aborbed charge. Switch spearman to balanced or push forward after absorbing charge. Retinue can reinforce spearman line or flank.
Polearms CAN be good, but they need a lot of babysitting lol I think they have a place for countering enemy retinue though. I probably wouldn't make more than 1 group of them
@@Strat-Guides Agreed, when fighting Baron von Dipshitter, build polearms to counter enemy retinue... or archers while they are nerfed.
Aren't helmets, gambeson, and maille all separate variables? A big table showing each combination probably isn't the most video-friendly, but does one exist?
They are all separate which is why I tested each of them separately (I didn't test gambeson or mail WITHOUT a helmet though). The gambeson adds 2 armor and mail adds 10 armor and 2 charge damage. I don't have it in a database, but I do have the KDR effectiveness of each level (no armor, helmet, helmet gambeson, helmet mail)
Obi-Wan would want you tovget that high ground
Polearms have no impaling, makes no sense
not being able to hotkey each group of spearman,polearm, retinue feels clunky when trying to move units around.
But you can! You select the desired units, then press CTRL + a number from 0 to 9, then later you just press that number to select those units
@@rnklippel nice never new thanks.
I don't know how your spears were defeated by the bandits, 16-20 spears have always destroyed the 16 bandits for me
The only time spears lost to 16 bandits was on Give Ground, which was part of the stance testing. I don't recommend using that stance for actual combat unless there's a good reason to do so like avoiding being flanked or pulling enemies into a trap or uphill.
How do you equip ur troops with the armor?? Or is it automatic?
It's automatic as long as you have them in inventory and you have burgage plots upgraded
@@Strat-Guides like a tier 2 burgage plot? Or a tier 1 with like a vegetable garden would be ok?
@@gammarey7070 tier 1 can use helmets, tier 2 can use gambeson and helmet, tier 3 can use helmet, gambeson and mail (not gambeson and mail together - it's one or the other).
@@Strat-Guides yo bro thanks, just got into trading in weapons and shit, this is a big help
So the only way to have an unit fully equipped with mail armor is to have all plots at level 3 or destroy all level 1 and 2 plots LOOL that's some next level GG xD
The default to the highest level plots first, so if you have 100 males in your town and only 36 live in burgage plot 3s, then you'll have a full group of fully armored militia. If you have 2, then you'll have a mixed unit. It's doable to upgrade everything to burgage plot level 3 though!
@@Strat-Guides Sure, just beat the stupid AI on normal difficulty with my main town of 20 lvl3 plots with 2 swordsmen and 1 polearm units all in mail armor, ofc with a 2nd smaller mining town talented for plate armor for the 2x24 fully armored retinue units LOL xD
How were you able to hire all mercenary bands?
I have an issue with my retinue, which is that they usually tank their effectiveness when in battle because of the cohesion debuff. Does anyone know how to avoid it and have close to 100% effectiveness while in melee?
Cohesion is a terribly implemented stat. The best way I found is to try to make sure, well before the clash, that the unit is completely stationary in a symmetrical, preferably wide formation. And just pray to the God of Cohesion that you receive mercy in that battle. Or complain to Greg that cohesion is a bad system.
I want trebuchets and actually attacking enemy settlements. And sieges too. Maybe I should just play age of empires
woppaaaaaaa
it doesn't move my troops wont move
You didn't really seem to touch upon cohesion, which is a horribly implemented stat in my opinion.
Cohesion seems to try to abstract the notion of people being out of line and therefore vulnerable to getting overwhelmed. Yes, Manor Lords doesn't seem to provide any bonuses to INDIVIDUAL'S attacks/debuffs to individuals' defence when flanking or rear attacking, it is all simulated by cohesiviness. That means that, if an individual gets isolated, instead of him getting overwhelmed and killed, instead HIS ENTIRE UNIT can get a rather hefty negation in effectiveness, especially with the added "surrounded" debuff being applied to the ENTIRE unit. The worst part about this is just how janky it is. I remember having a retinue unit taking huge casualties since there was a tree inside of their formation, so the game freaked out and decided that ALL 24 OF THEM should fight like 40% worse now.
The worst example of how broken the combat is, was when my retinue had 0% effectiviness because of horribly cohesion, having the surrounded debuff and moderate stamina loss. So what horrible formation were they in to get such bad cohesion? They were basically in a straight line. How horribly surrounded were they to get that debuff? They were NOT surrounded in the slightest, I COULD NOT figure out why the game gave the surrounded debuff. And then I realise that the brigands were fighting with WAY HIGHER effectiviness because, for some reason, STAMINA IS NOT IMPLEMENTED FOR BRIGANDS.
I fought that battle over and over again, facing 4 full brigand units with only 2 units of my own. I tried over and over to use hammer and anvil tactics but they just didn't work.What I learned was, and what made me win the battle, is that the best strategy is to have an ever so slight reverse-V formation, and JUST KEEP STILL (preferably in long formations, that also helps with cohesion for some weird reason). To move is to gamble with your cohesion, and the stamina gets drained so quickly. If you try to do hammer and anvil, sure you might apply that surrounded debuff on the enemy but... You might lose just as much cohesion as they, and in the chaos and jankiness YOU might get the surrounded debuff as well for some arcane reason. So just stand in a gentle reverse-V formation, and because you are slightly surrounding the enemy, you might apply the surrounding debuff, even though it might just be A VERY gentle outflanking of the enemy. I.e. rear charges basically don't work, because the actual effect of the supposed combat bonus to attacking your enemy from the rear or flank, is basically just a simple, binary debuff which could be much more easily achieved by something more gentle which keeps your cohesion higher and lowers the risk of you getting that debuff as well.
All of this could be fixed by removing cohesion, removing unit-wide surrounded debuffs, and simulating it on individual level in the same way Total War does, and within that adding the entity-level bonuses to attacking flanks and rear. This way hammer and anvil would properly work.
DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT LOVE FLESSON19
Lol
omg just get to the point jeeezz
DONT BUY THIS GAME FROM EPIC GAMES... no patch, I cant believe the dev allowed this to be sold and have no support. NOT HAPPY
now with the new update testing must begin again
They didn't really change combat other than archers, which I made very clear in the video. I was able to test archers a bit this morning and they seem to be back where they were before the patch. They were shredding through bandits from the flank!