"NO MORE!!" All the people I've killed, by letting you live." "I never kept count." "I did." "I know. And I love ya for it!" I love that part so freaking much.
It's so hard to explain to people how much this stood out in the world of comics. Anyone who hadn't been following Frank Miller already experienced a jarring jump in quality, writing, editing through panels, and the realism. Every writer and artist in the comic industry wished they had done it, and immediately began to emulate it.
I love Tom King just being so bummed that frank was only 29 when he wrote DKR lol. I didn't know he was that young when he wrote it that's pretty amazing.
the unfortunate part of this book is that you can't appreciate it fully if its one of your first comics. But you cant fully appreciate it if you read it later either, its perfection can only be spoken of.
It wasn’t nihilistic. It was dark, gritty, soaked in corruption, but not nihilistic. Batman at the end of the story brought morality back into the city. Through very brutal methods, yes. But they worked (at least in the world he lived in) and saved it from collapsing in on itself.
This is an interesting case study when it comes to fascism. Sure, Bats himself seems like an authoritarian in the way he talks, but after Gordon is out of the picture, he is explicitly anti-police, fighting Commissioner Yindel at almost every turn in books 3 and 4, not to mention him going to head to head with Superman who had become a political tool of Reagan’s. Ultimately, I’d say The Dark Knight Returns is anti-fascist, but he is certainly rough around the edges at certain moments, and that’s what makes the book so interesting after all these years. EDIT: not to mention him fighting a Neo-Nazi in the form of Bruno, then accepting all of the Sons of Batman and Mutant gang members to focus their efforts in an anti-government militia. Like, he is VERRRY anti-fascism in this book, just uses some controversial torturing techniques when dealing with the criminals, especially earlier in the story, which comes off as authoritarian.
He's also pretty conservative as well in both his feelings about country and his opposition to the liberal society he now lives in which is so stupidly idealistic they think The Joker can be reformed. Very complicated character when it comes to political philosophy.
@@blakemcnamara9105 it's crazy how people think ideals are achievable nowadays which nothing is wrong with ideals but most of the time politically it's twisted.
"It's the 'this would be a good death' line." Yes, yes. We know Tom, we know. We all guessed that you were projecting your mental health issues into your run on Batman pretty early on.
“I want you to remember, Clark. In all the years to come, in your most private moments, I want you to remember, my hand, at your throat, I want you to remember, the one man who beat you.”
@@G-H-Productions11 personally, the art is very unique and captivating. The comic overall seems like Miller’s take on the bright colorful campy justice league comics from the 60s and 70s. It’s just a really fun comic to read.
Hmm I’d actually say that Amazing Spider-Man 121 & 122 were more influential as it was the first time a love interest could be taken off the board and have a lasting impact on the character. It was the comic arc that most view as the end of the silver age and start of the Bronze Age of comics and showed that readers were growing with both the titles of their youth and era around them and wanted comics that touched on darker and more realistic stakes i.e even superheroes can’t always save the ones the love. If not for the Night Gwen Stacey Died you probably wouldn’t have the Dark Knight Returns or Emerald Twilight
Including the third one that fixes the confusion caused by the first two that lead tons of batfans to mistakenly believe that batman could really beat Superman
Yes, I remember the mini series very well. So many good details came out of The Dark Knight Returns. I bought the hard back the soft back then 2-sets of the 4 issues series. The videos of that D.K.R. are fantastic. I really believe SUPERMAN KNEW that Bruce went easy on him and could've done him in. Batman was however Not a killer. The comics were superb in getting the message out to readers. ALL of us back then were Already begging for A movie that told it as close to the BOB KANE story accurately as possible with up dates of the times of course. They made Superman 1978, so yeah we were ready for the BATMAN. So far only bits and pieces of Batman's history & character are told in the movies it's the same as the Superman Novel. The Christopher Reeve 1978 movie to me Restarted a lot of all that's still going today. Some of the movies are just that a movie that is just for money not for the Real Fans. I believe if they made FRANK MILLER'S-D.K.R. ( maybe elseworlds) with no changes at all it would sell out the movies everywhere for quite some time.
@@simpingspartan646 Yeah, I saw them. They were pretty well done. A credit to the animators for the quality. I still believe that this book is being snubbed by WB from getting the live action treatment it has long deserved. But since AT&T took over Warner we now have The Snyder Cut of The Justice League film coming out. At this point, who knows what the future may hold. 🤞
That bit that Alan Moore wrote was as predictable as it was cynical. Everything he's done since Miracleman has been predictable and mean spirited. Frank Miller is brilliant. Alan Moore is brilliant in his own mind.
The story was Dark gritty not Batman..by that i mean he was more than that. DKR was essentially an anarchist and revolutionary force. A captain for people to follow.
People who say TDKR's version of Batman is a facist don't know what facist means. You could argue that Batman acts as a dictator in TDKR but facist means he believes in the aryan race, which there is not one single piece of evidence in TDKR to support.
Fascist doesn't mean "believes in the aryan race" but anyone calling a comic book fascist, racist, sexist etc is best ignored, they are adding nothing to the comic book hobby and don't love comic books.
I’ve never read this comic book, but I have the dvd animated movie based on this comic though, and that animated movie wasn’t bad:(I’m probably just typing this because I’m a fan of the Batman character anyway), #halloween.
@@felixnolasco2683 I’d say The Night Gwen Stacey Died was more influential on the industry then DKR, from that point on even the untouchable love interest could be killed off which opened up writers to go down darker storylines
@@felixnolasco2683 Ah, OK. You just take offense to it being considered the most influential. Fair enough. I think it spawned a lot of imitators and made "grim dark" comics more commonplace/popular
Dark Knight Returns is far more important than Watchmen. Frank Miller is faaar more important to the comics Industry than Alan Moore. If not for Miller the dark and gritty era would never have come. Miller did the Daredevil run which turned comics from generally family friendly to crime drama noir stories. He then took Batman and made him real. Moore made a satire of superheroes. If the others never came out Watchmen would've just been seen as a great Superhero satire and that's that. Where as Miller respected superheroes and knew that adults loved these characters as well, let's get them back into comics by making comics for them.
both were/are milestones of comicdom, in some senses Watchmen is far better than TDK, We can "sense" the influence of Watchmen even in our average superhero stories of today, the "real world" atmosphere the writers try to create, the way the characters talk and act, the perpetual indecision between been a "do gooder" fantasy hero or a true to life vigilante that infects everyone from Superman and Batman to the most obscure C-list character, the "hard decisions" that have to be taken in EVERY major storyline/event- all widely different from the usual tropes and clichés writers used before Watchmen (and TDK, o'course) happened. If comic books nowadays are basically the ADULT version of early comic books, we have to thank both Miller and Moore in equal measure.
@@AsgersWeb "If not for The Dark Knight Returns. Watchmen wouldn't ever come out" No, you are really overestimating Dark Knight Returns if you believe in this nosense
it's not the most influentual comic ever. it's not a masterpiece. it's not the definitive version of batman. frank miller is not the best batman writer. stop pushing this narrative. stop.
what's comics without a little fascist undertones, some people just need to realize they weren't here before and they'll go away if we wait long enough. we will get video games back, comics back, dnd back in that order. and we might lose anime along the way, but one day those soys will move on, as their passions only run as deep as their attention span.
"He wasn't kids stuff anymore." HAHAHAHA!!! Are you kidding, Frank? He's a guy in a cape and tights! No, it's kids stuff with graphic violence added so adults can say it's not kids stuff. LMAO!!!!!
I don’t think the character design makes comics/ movies for kids. You can use popular characters to tell more mature story’s even if they weren’t originally intended for that. If that’s too hard for you to understand maybe you should focus on stuff actually made for kids. You might actually be able to understand it.
Not that influential, as far as the comics are concerned. considering how tropy and cliche he still is in the comics. Seems only certain movies pay homage to it. The comics haven't done shit for Batman except make him gruff. Hes still a predictable, pacifist mess
The art alone is iconic But let's not talk about BvS that was a horrible movie quick cash grab that didn't work out and had all these Easter eggs it never delivered on
Once. This book is completely overrated, and fails miserably at characterizing Batman. 4 months later, and people act like Denny O'Neil had NEVER existed.
denny o'neil's batman is NOTHING like Dark Knight Returns. Batman being "dark" is a broad concept and frankly not that impressive considering the character looks like a vampire. DKR didn't just make batman dark it modernized the character for a new era. O'neil's batman is really not that far removed from the tv show, it's full of silly traps and overwrought dialogue. For example Oneil's batmobile was a dinky muscle car, Miller's was a paramilitary tank, he gave batman a high tech edge creators have been chasing every since.
@@lefthandedsophiethepop-wit503 the character is meant to look like a man in a scary costume, not like a soldier. And those silly traps are better than bones broken. Columbus never discovered America, kiddo.
"NO MORE!!" All the people I've killed, by letting you live."
"I never kept count."
"I did."
"I know. And I love ya for it!"
I love that part so freaking much.
@Orion Pax then thats one thing the movie does better. I've read the comment but it was years ago
and then he lets him live again.
It's so hard to explain to people how much this stood out in the world of comics. Anyone who hadn't been following Frank Miller already experienced a jarring jump in quality, writing, editing through panels, and the realism. Every writer and artist in the comic industry wished they had done it, and immediately began to emulate it.
Ok so I’m new to comic books and reading comic books and I just read this a week ago, and I immediately fell in love!
I love Tom King just being so bummed that frank was only 29 when he wrote DKR lol. I didn't know he was that young when he wrote it that's pretty amazing.
I couldnt tell if he meant 29 was young or old. Thanks for clarifying!
I loved the message about the media only focusing on the bad and not reporting on the good. Was an amazing read
Batman is so much deeper than people realize
Agreed.
My favorite comic of all time. Just bought the Absolute too, it’s beautiful.
the unfortunate part of this book is that you can't appreciate it fully if its one of your first comics. But you cant fully appreciate it if you read it later either, its perfection can only be spoken of.
It wasn’t nihilistic. It was dark, gritty, soaked in corruption, but not nihilistic. Batman at the end of the story brought morality back into the city. Through very brutal methods, yes. But they worked (at least in the world he lived in) and saved it from collapsing in on itself.
The Mutants were pretty nihilistic though.
@@blakemcnamara9105 Right. So explicitly anti-nihilism
definitely the best content about comics on the internet
You heard it here first ☝🏾
@@SyFyWire
always
This is an interesting case study when it comes to fascism. Sure, Bats himself seems like an authoritarian in the way he talks, but after Gordon is out of the picture, he is explicitly anti-police, fighting Commissioner Yindel at almost every turn in books 3 and 4, not to mention him going to head to head with Superman who had become a political tool of Reagan’s. Ultimately, I’d say The Dark Knight Returns is anti-fascist, but he is certainly rough around the edges at certain moments, and that’s what makes the book so interesting after all these years.
EDIT: not to mention him fighting a Neo-Nazi in the form of Bruno, then accepting all of the Sons of Batman and Mutant gang members to focus their efforts in an anti-government militia. Like, he is VERRRY anti-fascism in this book, just uses some controversial torturing techniques when dealing with the criminals, especially earlier in the story, which comes off as authoritarian.
He's also pretty conservative as well in both his feelings about country and his opposition to the liberal society he now lives in which is so stupidly idealistic they think The Joker can be reformed. Very complicated character when it comes to political philosophy.
@@blakemcnamara9105 it's crazy how people think ideals are achievable nowadays which nothing is wrong with ideals but most of the time politically it's twisted.
Batman is Antifa confirmed
That's the best Batman story ever written.
Best comic book ever!!😄
"It's the 'this would be a good death' line." Yes, yes. We know Tom, we know. We all guessed that you were projecting your mental health issues into your run on Batman pretty early on.
what? can someone explain?
I just read The Dark Knight Strikes Again and had a solid time with it
wow i didn’t realize this video was posted so recently 😅 i’ve been reading it recently so i guess it goes to show the impact it still has to this day
There’s a brief subtle and brilliant scene in Batman versus superman Where Bruce realizes he’s finally gotten Clark mad that was pure Dark night
I’d say mention the animated movie cuz that’s amazing
“I want you to remember, Clark. In all the years to come, in your most private moments, I want you to remember, my hand, at your throat, I want you to remember, the one man who beat you.”
Best line ever!!!
Classic
I read that trade once a year and reference it in my work all the time.
We dont talk about the sequels tho
TDKSA is actually amazing just really unorthodox.
@@darricktv9857 Really? I mean compare to the first one, the art, the story and the structure is just...... not good
@@G-H-Productions11 personally, the art is very unique and captivating. The comic overall seems like Miller’s take on the bright colorful campy justice league comics from the 60s and 70s. It’s just a really fun comic to read.
Behind The Panel is legendary!
🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
I could watch it for hours
No mention of "The Batman" Season 4 Episode 7 "Artifacts"?
The absolute edition is pure art
10:28 All-Star Superman should also be there
thanks for this review! fun!
This and The Long halloween are the best Batman comics of all time.
And Hush
💯💯💯
@@panospanagopoulos6054 Straight Facts
@@panospanagopoulos6054 Knightfall. If Hush "makes it", then Knightfall is pure gold.
@@wintherr3527 Why whats wrong with Hush?
Hmm I’d actually say that Amazing Spider-Man 121 & 122 were more influential as it was the first time a love interest could be taken off the board and have a lasting impact on the character. It was the comic arc that most view as the end of the silver age and start of the Bronze Age of comics and showed that readers were growing with both the titles of their youth and era around them and wanted comics that touched on darker and more realistic stakes i.e even superheroes can’t always save the ones the love. If not for the Night Gwen Stacey Died you probably wouldn’t have the Dark Knight Returns or Emerald Twilight
Mutant Leader never gets his due in these type of things
This was really well done
Ah yes. Before they decided to make a sequel to this story that actively hurts it, and before Frank became Crazy Uncle Frank...
He really has become the personification of the uncle who ruins Thanksgiving.
Including the third one that fixes the confusion caused by the first two that lead tons of batfans to mistakenly believe that batman could really beat Superman
So true. I hate when people try to top what's already amazing
Frank Miller Batman is the best Batman
I never thought frank would sound like that he has the voice of a real dorky sounding guy kind of goes to show how much of a fanboy he is
Very Good Stuff! 👍🏻👍🏻
"Tom King Writer: Batman vol. 3"
Don’t bother mentioning what Snyder pulled from this pls cuz I’ve seen him in interviews he doesn’t even get the book bless him.
Bought it and gave it away. I don't care for the book much however I enjoyed the history of it and every film and cartoon that spawned it.
Sou inscrito no canal, mas não consigo acessar todos os vídeos 😢
I never was a fan of Batman until I read Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns." That graphic novel blew my mind away!
Graphic novel, or miniseries?
Yes, I remember the mini series very well. So many good details came out of The Dark Knight Returns. I bought the hard back the soft back then 2-sets of the 4 issues series. The videos of that D.K.R. are fantastic. I really believe SUPERMAN KNEW that Bruce went easy on him and could've done him in. Batman was however Not a killer. The comics were superb in getting the message out to readers. ALL of us back then were Already begging for A movie that told it as close to the BOB KANE story accurately as possible with up dates of the times of course. They made Superman 1978, so yeah we were ready for the BATMAN. So far only bits and pieces of Batman's history & character are told in the movies it's the same as the Superman Novel. The Christopher Reeve 1978 movie to me Restarted a lot of all that's still going today. Some of the movies are just that a movie that is just for money not for the Real Fans. I believe if they made FRANK MILLER'S-D.K.R. ( maybe elseworlds) with no changes at all it would sell out the movies everywhere for quite some time.
Why hasn't this book been made into a live action movie? The animated film was fine, but this book deserves a live action version.
It's become an animated 2 part film if you wanna check it out :)
@@simpingspartan646 Yeah, I saw them. They were pretty well done. A credit to the animators for the quality. I still believe that this book is being snubbed by WB from getting the live action treatment it has long deserved.
But since AT&T took over Warner we now have The Snyder Cut of The Justice League film coming out. At this point, who knows what the future may hold. 🤞
Check out Wyatt Weed's fan film.
Without Howard Chaykin’s American Flagg, there will be no Dark Knight nor Watchmen
Conroy was actually kingdom come batman
That bit that Alan Moore wrote was as predictable as it was cynical. Everything he's done since Miracleman has been predictable and mean spirited. Frank Miller is brilliant. Alan Moore is brilliant in his own mind.
The story was Dark gritty not Batman..by that i mean he was more than that. DKR was essentially an anarchist and revolutionary force. A captain for people to follow.
One of my favorites and so is spider man reign
I always saw this story as a potential future for the Bronze Age Neal Adams/Denny O neil and Frank Robbins take on Batman.
6:00 Good to know
Am I the only person who prefers Batman year one to the dark knight returns?
Year one is another example of the BATMAN STORY line that is a great reading experience.
James Bridges yep. I love that comic
We also wouldn't have rocksteady's Batman Arkham franchise.
The greatest comic of all time
What comes after Batman returns the last crusader ( 2016) comic i just finished reading it
Trinston was here. . .
People who say TDKR's version of Batman is a facist don't know what facist means. You could argue that Batman acts as a dictator in TDKR but facist means he believes in the aryan race, which there is not one single piece of evidence in TDKR to support.
Fascist doesn't mean "believes in the aryan race" but anyone calling a comic book fascist, racist, sexist etc is best ignored, they are adding nothing to the comic book hobby and don't love comic books.
I’ve never read this comic book, but I have the dvd animated movie based on this comic though, and that animated movie wasn’t bad:(I’m probably just typing this because I’m a fan of the Batman character anyway), #halloween.
Is it though?
I'd say a lot of other comics jacked it's style and atmosphere for sure
@@Chandasouk But is it the MOST influential? When O’Neil depicted a darker version of the character a decade before Miller.
@@felixnolasco2683 I’d say The Night Gwen Stacey Died was more influential on the industry then DKR, from that point on even the untouchable love interest could be killed off which opened up writers to go down darker storylines
@@felixnolasco2683 Ah, OK. You just take offense to it being considered the most influential. Fair enough. I think it spawned a lot of imitators and made "grim dark" comics more commonplace/popular
@@Wezt334 Good stuff. I still hear about that story and barely read any Spiderman.
Throw the Nolanverse batmans away. Give me more tru DKR Batman.
The best
And then Frank Miller went and lost his damn mind.
The animated movies were amazing, instant favorite
Dark Knight Returns is far more important than Watchmen. Frank Miller is faaar more important to the comics Industry than Alan Moore. If not for Miller the dark and gritty era would never have come. Miller did the Daredevil run which turned comics from generally family friendly to crime drama noir stories. He then took Batman and made him real. Moore made a satire of superheroes. If the others never came out Watchmen would've just been seen as a great Superhero satire and that's that. Where as Miller respected superheroes and knew that adults loved these characters as well, let's get them back into comics by making comics for them.
Good thing about internet: all opinions are valid; even the wrong ones.
both were/are milestones of comicdom, in some senses Watchmen is far better than TDK, We can "sense" the influence of Watchmen even in our average superhero stories of today, the "real world" atmosphere the writers try to create, the way the characters talk and act, the perpetual indecision between been a "do gooder" fantasy hero or a true to life vigilante that infects everyone from Superman and Batman to the most obscure C-list character, the "hard decisions" that have to be taken in EVERY major storyline/event- all widely different from the usual tropes and clichés writers used before Watchmen (and TDK, o'course) happened. If comic books nowadays are basically the ADULT version of early comic books, we have to thank both Miller and Moore in equal measure.
@@Changetheling If not for The Dark Knight Returns. Watchmen wouldn't ever have come out
@@AsgersWeb "If not for The Dark Knight Returns. Watchmen wouldn't ever come out" No, you are really overestimating Dark Knight Returns if you believe in this nosense
@@matheus31218 Watchmen was a superhero satire. TDKR deconstructed the very superhero while still respecting the character
Nope 4 me it was v for vendetta graphic novel
it's not the most influentual comic ever. it's not a masterpiece. it's not the definitive version of batman. frank miller is not the best batman writer. stop pushing this narrative. stop.
what's comics without a little fascist undertones, some people just need to realize they weren't here before and they'll go away if we wait long enough. we will get video games back, comics back, dnd back in that order. and we might lose anime along the way, but one day those soys will move on, as their passions only run as deep as their attention span.
How does it have fascist undertones?
"He wasn't kids stuff anymore." HAHAHAHA!!! Are you kidding, Frank? He's a guy in a cape and tights! No, it's kids stuff with graphic violence added so adults can say it's not kids stuff. LMAO!!!!!
What he's saying is that this was not goofy batman stories that they were used to and it was more serious
I don’t think the character design makes comics/ movies for kids. You can use popular characters to tell more mature story’s even if they weren’t originally intended for that. If that’s too hard for you to understand maybe you should focus on stuff actually made for kids. You might actually be able to understand it.
Not that influential, as far as the comics are concerned. considering how tropy and cliche he still is in the comics. Seems only certain movies pay homage to it. The comics haven't done shit for Batman except make him gruff. Hes still a predictable, pacifist mess
The art alone is iconic
But let's not talk about BvS that was a horrible movie quick cash grab that didn't work out and had all these Easter eggs it never delivered on
Once. This book is completely overrated, and fails miserably at characterizing Batman. 4 months later, and people act like Denny O'Neil had NEVER existed.
Why it fail at characterizing batman?
denny o'neil's batman is NOTHING like Dark Knight Returns. Batman being "dark" is a broad concept and frankly not that impressive considering the character looks like a vampire. DKR didn't just make batman dark it modernized the character for a new era. O'neil's batman is really not that far removed from the tv show, it's full of silly traps and overwrought dialogue. For example Oneil's batmobile was a dinky muscle car, Miller's was a paramilitary tank, he gave batman a high tech edge creators have been chasing every since.
@@lefthandedsophiethepop-wit503 the character is meant to look like a man in a scary costume, not like a soldier. And those silly traps are better than bones broken. Columbus never discovered America, kiddo.
I agree Dennis Oneil and doug moench and Alan Grant are the best batman writers.
TheDarkTicoKnight12 whatever you just proved my original point, which is Miller's Batman is nothing like O'Neil's.