You forgot the most important factor: Inflation and Interest rates. Watch market (and other luxury goods) was basically parallel to the interest rates. If they stay high, the watch market will continue to go down and vice versa
Ehh no, you forget that luxury goods and in particular watches are not regular investment assets, their sole purpose is to signal wealth and exclusivity and the people buying them need the product to be at least unattainable for most people. Why do you think watch brands have increased their prices so much? They need to keep up not only with inflation, but with top 5% wealth inflation. And god knows wealthy people have done well in these past couple years. You have to think of Rolex specifically as a currency, they have their own interest rate (production, distribution) and the real interest rate only partially affects the price their non/substitutable product.
@@CPARyan86 of course, that's why I said "only partially affects". Precisely because they affect Rolex as a company, it pushes them to raise prices accordingly, which makes Rolex deflation even more difficult. My point was: the main value of a Rolex is having one, it's a status symbol so the price will always be massively be influenced by whatever the retail price is. It's quite an interesting and unique extreme example of micro-economics, actually... very very few brands manage to achieve that status. I've did some research work on non-substitutable products in uni and it is actually fascinating.
that's not true, firstly if inflation is high and cost of inputs are high, these luxury watch manufacturers would pass the cost to the consumers by raising prices, they simply won't cut retail prices and risk devaluing their brands, especially not Rolex. Also, in a high inflationary environment it is better to keep hard assets than cash in the bank, ask the people in Turkey and Lebanon if you don't believe me.
Oisin AKA “Lenny”! Bought his AP 26331 Chrono from BQ watches, Spencer Dryer! For $80,000 in December 2021! Is now worth $45K, exceptional and beautiful watch!
Lenny’s last comment was just perfect. It really encapsulates the fact that it’s kind of strange that you have to explain the concept of spike and all things around it. I had a good laugh and really liked the use of some memorable extracts from one of my favorite movie, Jaws. Well done sir! 😂
related to the stock market. We are near all time highs still. Once the stock market corrects and stays down for a while, the watch market will feel it.
Год назад+2
Next weeks’ winning lottery numbers please. Just while you have the crystal ball out. Thanks in advance.
Why do people care about the price of their watches after they have bought them? I bought mine then couldnt care less about the "Watch Market". I bought the watches because I liked them and I will never sell them, that was always the plan buy it to keep for the rest of my life.
Год назад
You're rule for you. Nice. There are other humans on earth, you know.
As a Financial Planner who tracks the financial markets I see doom & gloom over the next 3 to 5 years. BRICS is forming thier own Currency, US Markets are crumbling, Interest rates still going higher, Credit Card debt has hit 1 Trillion for the first time in history, massive layoffs with Fortune 500 companies, etc... I see 99% of the watch market going DOWN at least another 20% to 30%, and thats the High end labels. Shitters will tank to almost nothing. I've got my eye on a few watches. Rolex, A Lange, Patek, etc... and will buy when we see more downside adjustments. No way do I see watches today holding their value. Many Rolex ADs will get fooked over the next few years. Flipping is dead for most. Watches are Assets, banks will actually use them as collateral against a Loan. Buy a watch because you Like it, but expect fluctuations in prices.
@@AcmeRocket Yes, that's what I do for a living as an Investment Advisor. I look back at history to learn what the Future holds. I made many comments about all the Hype back in 2021 & 2022 about this Tulip Mania faze of the watch market. I think Oison left out the Tons of FREE stimulus money that was being dished out by the Gov't. Any market that goes Parabolic (Hockey stick) is due for a correction. To anyone who traded Stocks or Futures this was blatantly obvious. Thats why I held off on my expensive watch purchases. A Rising tide lifts all boats, the same goes when the tide goes out. That's whats happening now. The same is happening in Venice with the Canals void of water. Wait till the next Housing crisis hits, its gonna make 2008 look like a walk in the park. The Global economics is rapidly changing. The US and UK will be hit hard.
@@AcmeRocket, clearly clairvoyant. He probably also has a great portfolio he would like to sell you, so you can survive the doom & gloom that has been predicted for the last 2 or more years.
Corrections in the financial markets have not yet run their course all asset classes will be impacted.. There are issues in the commercial real estate market, company bankruptcies are rising, and the interest rate rise cycle is yet to reach its peak. There is still a lot of surplus cash in the market from the bloated monetary activities of the world's central banks during COVID-19. Luxury markets have held up reasonably well during this period of uncertainty, but will not be immune forever.
Год назад
I need a shot of you slowly looking up at the camera.
Are we trying to convince ourselves that the value of our watches is unchanged, maybe until you try to sell them. How much would the grey market give you for your AP ? At the moment ? Not what you paid for it, could that be because you may be able to to go into your Ad and buy one.
Год назад+2
A grey market dealer would offer me the same today for an AP as I paid before the spike. Holy miss the point, David. Sometimes, when I make these videos, I feel I’m driving the point home too much and too hard. It seems I’m not driving it hard enough. Seeing as guys like you are leaving comments like this.
@ if you like and enjoy watches, and the purchase of these items, the price should not mean anything to you. It’s the people who keep on about the value of their collections, and how the prices have risen, that has given rise to the hike in prices, as leaving your money in the bank has been a waste of time. So leaving the door open to investors. Plus we all know we are being shafted by the Ads, especially the grey market dealers, because there is no way on Gods earth that some of the prices asked will keep on being attainable. Are they ultimately going to be museum pieces that we will stare at in glass cases.
If you are a collector and you like watches, no matter what make, and you do not intend to sell them, who’s bothered if they lose, or gain money, not me.
The Spike is over, the bubble burst, the market crashed.... Just other wording and does not make too much difference in my opinion.... In the end RUclips is all about clickbait isn't it?
Oisin, if you know who the grey marketers are (at 19:31 in this video) that sold fake Rolex Pepsi's after the spike, please call them out. We do not need another Anthony Farrer to thrive in the watch market.
I think the discussion has gotten confused as the market is a two speed market. There is the high demand watch economy (Rolex AP etc) and the second was the entry luxury market. So this video is spot on re the luxury pieces. The other watch economy/market is the Tudor/omega etc. that market is dropping and dropping fast as those who buy in this space are getting impacted by economic factors like interest rates etc. for example the Tudor blue 58 is half of what it as 18mm months ago.
Gringa was right, the actual point of her video was that the constant and incessant focus on watch prices ruins what makes watch collecting a fun hobby.
Год назад+12
That actually wasn’t her point in that video at all…. You moron. Said video was called ‘Watches are NOT assets’. Where she carefully explained why watches are not assets and shouldn’t be treated as such. They are, of course, assets. Especially the expensive ones. On top of that, watching the prices of watches doesn’t ruin the hobby at all. It’s only one aspect of it. There a multiple others. The video was hogwash and those who related to it like yourself, just lack a few extra brain cells.
@ Yes she said they weren’t assets in the original video. But she responded and said of course any physical object is technically an asset. She was complaining how grey market dealers, social media, and watch publications called watches investments. A lot of people were getting into watches just to make money. Her point was that the focus of making money on watches shouldn’t be the focus of the hobby. The focus should be on the engineering and design of these pieces of art which your videos are so good at demonstrating.
Год назад+1
@@MDchazshe retracted her video title and never admitted them as assets. There’s a perfectly good argument that the strong market of watches actually stimulated interest in horology and got a lot of people into it for the art and history sake too. Sorry, if you’re a fan of the shit she spewed that time, there’s something wrong with you.
Год назад+2
@@denmark39na, no tolerance for that shit. That clairvoyant, hate spewing doom and gloomer was after clicks. Morons like our friend here fell for it.
My GMT 2 of which I purchased in 1987, cost 1600.00 dollars. In today's dollars 20,000. Nothing has really changed, I always said to my friend, you cannot wear a BMW on your wrist.
@@Alexgvigo yup as much as I like cars, I still prefer to spend my money on watches especially sports Rolex models. A $100k BMW will be worth $35k in 5-6 years, a GMT Pepsi or a Submariner would be worth close to or even higher after 5-6 years of wearing. Also, you can go to the other side of the world, wear your Rolex and bring the box and papers and liquidate the watch for cash, can't do that with a BMW.
This is still an incestuous watch trader market created by an artificial scarcity. Traditional, regular users, ones that would buy a Rolex for retirement or special event, are out of this market. Other than an occasional rapper or some other celebrity du jour, the buyers and sellers are the same people. It's a closed system.
Fully agree. One of the outcomes for collectors that are being treated poorly at ADs is the discovery of so many affordable brands that are fun to wear on the wrist. Rolex will always be #1, but you do not have to be clairvoyant to have personal dignity and want to buy a brand or from an AD that treats you with mutual respect. Only Rolex can decide what its brand will be about and how it wants to treat new customers going forward.
As the world economies get worse, the desire of luxury goods will go down naturally. The watch hype train is kaput and won't ever go back up. The days of cheap money are over, but don't take my word for it. Go check interest rates.
Mega dealers in trouble - wouldn’t want to be holding their retail space right now. Will always be a market for high end and vintage watches. But the idea of the usual suspects competing with Rolex is absurd…
it’s been a major crash and the luxury watch flipping market is dead, why else are flippers only consigning. of course your daytona is worth more than what it was 5 yrs ago pre spike, but that’s only because of inflation where your pounds, euros or dollars are also worth a lot less ✌️
And how and where do I sell a valuable watch? Certainly not eBay? Unless it’s a nice Hamilton. I think it’s a secret market you influencers know about. For us average collectors the supposed value is Monopoly Money, since we don’t know where to sell anything.
Great vid and love the Jaws clips. The motives of anyone who re-sells luxury watches will continue to be questioned based on the conduct of some very visible and bad actors. Being a well informed consumer is always wise.
Wow. Do you have evidence, or insider knowledge, Grey market dealers passed off known fakes as legit watches? What does “it’s to my understanding” mean? How did you come to understand this?
IMO the crypto factor is way overblown. The global "crypto" market lost ~$2T in value while over the same timeframe the S&P500 alone lost ~$10T. The crypto bros going broke was a lot more visible. While the silent luxury folks stopped adding hyped pieces when the markets stopped pumping.
So much PPP loan money in the states, and people who were already making money likely had jobs they could continue during the pandemic. Meant there's a lot of people sitting at home not spending money with a bunch of Monopoly money hitting their account. Cars, watches, musical gear....anything you can collect went crazy.
I wouldn't call it a market crash but it really depends on how much you over paid. We still haven't bottomed out from the spike but we're still up 20% over 3 years, and almost 50% over 5 years. Luckily I didn't over pay for my Rolex and it's still up around 20% from what I paid.
Have you adjusted that with inflation? I think there are better investment assets than watches but definitely the joy they bring when wearing. Bonus if it end up making some money, not end of the world of they don't.
A bubble followed by a revert to the mean. I wonder if the underlining trend (excluding the bubble) you pointed out is due mostly to inflation. Watch buying wouldn’t be bad hedge against inflation assuming you buy at the mean price. Sadly I bought a tie fighter for $40k and now feel like a moron😢. Lesson learned hopefully
I checked out the 1990 Sub price (£2500) converted to include inflation for the last 33 years - it came to £5850, so even selling second hand it still beat inflation.
I should have said similar 😂.Another AP 15400st white/silver my friend bought for 45k,now selling for 30k.I’m gutted for him.I just got the call from my AD for a batman 3 weeks ago.I’m a collector not a flipper.
Oisin, excellent unbiased analysis on the factors that influenced the spike and watch market prices. Out of curiosity, do you buy your watches, like the AP you are wearing in this video, from an AD or the grey market? I ask because I am wondering if you see more "hyped" models becoming more readily available from brands not named Rolex, like AP.
Anyone i have a feeling that none of us here is old enough to have live through the 70s of high interest rate . And the asian financial crsis if you are in Asia. So it really depend on where you are i guess.
@ all in-production precious metal Daytonas are now available at or below their retail price! This is good news for us watch collectors. The bubble has burst!
I don't think anyone said that luxury watches will be worthless...but when a watch that was worth $140K is now going for half the price then that is a crash for sure. However, you want to define crash or correction
Great breakdown to the whole situation, finally there is someone who could talk some sense, which most of the time is a hard pill to swallow for the mass, they would rather live in their own delusion than facing the truth
Never bought on the grey market... the watches I've sold, I have always done so privately. If I cannot get a watch then I just come to terms with it and wait until something else catches my eye.
Excellent video but let’s also not forget the CPO side. CPO seem to be offering a higher rate to buy back a rolex. So not just they are making money from selling rival products, they would also be taking business away from the grey market and setting the baseline price for pre owned. Why would I sell my hulk to a grey dealer when rolex are offering me more and a potential to start a long term relationship…
Thanks for your insights. I kind of wonder about the future after most baby boomers die off, will there be enough watch fans to keep the market going up? -and not just for wrist watches but also items like collectable guitars or musical instruments. BTW: I don't really worry as I buy, own & enjoy! Things to ponder...
You and a few others are the only ones telling the truth. However, there are still people who want nothing to do with truth, unless it’s their truth. Great job.
Fun video and topic! The demand for desirable pieces at retail through authorized channels is still very high. Business in the secondary markets is going through an adjustment. Spike, crash, correction… it makes for a great debate and discussion.
How, in all my years of obsessive, lustful and persistent immersion in the world of watches have I only encountered Oisin today!?! 25/09/2023!!! Entertaining, engrossing and inciteful content, so much so I deeply resent RUclips for not offering up any of his video’s until now! Oisin, fine work Sir. Keep it up, while I catch up!
11 месяцев назад+1
Christ. You have a lot of catching up to do. Best of luck! And welcome.
What is the future of luxury watches? 1. Without new enthusiasts coming on board - demographic impact. 2. Fewer and fewer professional watchmakers (supply / servicing)
Oisin, you're in denial. If we conveniently take the spike off the chart, for argument sake, we should be higher than where we are today. Look at the steady trend before the spike and look where we are now, at least 15% below, depending on the Rolex model. Some models have fallen much further down. There was a crash from the peak, of course. It would be called a crash in the stock market. Wake up, man.
all collecting has cycles. Guitars, cars, watches, etc. Of course there will be a peak but watch for the generational turn when the young guys who have money have no interest in a watch...much like vintage autos of the 50's and now some guitars
Great summary and perspective Oisin. I’ll be in Venice this week and look forward to seeing many of the sights you’ve showcased. Thanks for the videos and great content. Cheers Mike
The haters have found a home with one grey hair senile you tuber with a friend name Tino, who is his imaginary friend . He is the number one hater. You are so on it with this video. Keep it up
I’ve said before and I’ll say it again…Oisin, I really appreciate the approach to the subject matter in these videos. Finally a watch RUclipsr with a positive attitude and message about the value of watches. It’s nothing to be ashamed of and the doom and gloom is like a fecking echo chamber. Thank you sir. 🤝🏻
Another great video. I am retired now and my watch collection is getting complete, I will add a Tudor GMT and that will be that. Rolex prices will remain strong because of demand. Buy what you can afford and be happy with your collection.
I do not know which Tudor GMT you prefer, but I love the new praline (white) dial version. It is very easy to read. I do know that the black dial version is on the grey market for less than retail if you shop around from a trusted grey market dealer.
I’ve just picked up a 16570 explorer 2 with box and papers, 2005 model with rehaut engraving for £6.5k. Would have cost £8k plus last year. This sounds right in line with what you are saying. However I bought this watch from watchfinder….
The long time grey market dealers who are trusted will adjust to the new market conditions. The Rolex CPO is for watches that are at least 3 years old. Plus, the Rolex CPO price from Bucherer are absurdly higher then the grey market today, and the trade in at the AD is much lower then what you get on the grey market. Only time will tell what will happen with pre-owned watches.
1) most people that hate the watch market cant afford them. RUclipsrs are rightly taking advantage of the sentiment in order to get views 2) full time watch youtubers in general dont have a lot of income, so they also have the same bias as above 1) and tend to cheer the down market.
You forgot the most important factor: Inflation and Interest rates. Watch market (and other luxury goods) was basically parallel to the interest rates. If they stay high, the watch market will continue to go down and vice versa
Ehh no, you forget that luxury goods and in particular watches are not regular investment assets, their sole purpose is to signal wealth and exclusivity and the people buying them need the product to be at least unattainable for most people. Why do you think watch brands have increased their prices so much? They need to keep up not only with inflation, but with top 5% wealth inflation. And god knows wealthy people have done well in these past couple years. You have to think of Rolex specifically as a currency, they have their own interest rate (production, distribution) and the real interest rate only partially affects the price their non/substitutable product.
Thanks mate very compelling points.
Always love to see a dublin accent on u tube talking about watchs i admire
@@CPARyan86 of course, that's why I said "only partially affects". Precisely because they affect Rolex as a company, it pushes them to raise prices accordingly, which makes Rolex deflation even more difficult. My point was: the main value of a Rolex is having one, it's a status symbol so the price will always be massively be influenced by whatever the retail price is. It's quite an interesting and unique extreme example of micro-economics, actually... very very few brands manage to achieve that status. I've did some research work on non-substitutable products in uni and it is actually fascinating.
that's not true, firstly if inflation is high and cost of inputs are high, these luxury watch manufacturers would pass the cost to the consumers by raising prices, they simply won't cut retail prices and risk devaluing their brands, especially not Rolex. Also, in a high inflationary environment it is better to keep hard assets than cash in the bank, ask the people in Turkey and Lebanon if you don't believe me.
Oisin AKA “Lenny”! Bought his AP 26331 Chrono from BQ watches, Spencer Dryer! For $80,000 in December 2021! Is now worth $45K, exceptional and beautiful watch!
Lenny’s last comment was just perfect. It really encapsulates the fact that it’s kind of strange that you have to explain the concept of spike and all things around it. I had a good laugh and really liked the use of some memorable extracts from one of my favorite movie, Jaws. Well done sir! 😂
related to the stock market. We are near all time highs still. Once the stock market corrects and stays down for a while, the watch market will feel it.
Next weeks’ winning lottery numbers please. Just while you have the crystal ball out. Thanks in advance.
Why do people care about the price of their watches after they have bought them? I bought mine then couldnt care less about the "Watch Market". I bought the watches because I liked them and I will never sell them, that was always the plan buy it to keep for the rest of my life.
You're rule for you. Nice. There are other humans on earth, you know.
As a Financial Planner who tracks the financial markets I see doom & gloom over the next 3 to 5 years. BRICS is forming thier own Currency, US Markets are crumbling, Interest rates still going higher, Credit Card debt has hit 1 Trillion for the first time in history, massive layoffs with Fortune 500 companies, etc... I see 99% of the watch market going DOWN at least another 20% to 30%, and thats the High end labels. Shitters will tank to almost nothing. I've got my eye on a few watches. Rolex, A Lange, Patek, etc... and will buy when we see more downside adjustments. No way do I see watches today holding their value. Many Rolex ADs will get fooked over the next few years. Flipping is dead for most. Watches are Assets, banks will actually use them as collateral against a Loan. Buy a watch because you Like it, but expect fluctuations in prices.
Sounds like you are the clairvoyant
@@AcmeRocket Yes, that's what I do for a living as an Investment Advisor. I look back at history to learn what the Future holds. I made many comments about all the Hype back in 2021 & 2022 about this Tulip Mania faze of the watch market. I think Oison left out the Tons of FREE stimulus money that was being dished out by the Gov't. Any market that goes Parabolic (Hockey stick) is due for a correction. To anyone who traded Stocks or Futures this was blatantly obvious. Thats why I held off on my expensive watch purchases. A Rising tide lifts all boats, the same goes when the tide goes out. That's whats happening now. The same is happening in Venice with the Canals void of water. Wait till the next Housing crisis hits, its gonna make 2008 look like a walk in the park. The Global economics is rapidly changing. The US and UK will be hit hard.
@@AcmeRocket, clearly clairvoyant. He probably also has a great portfolio he would like to sell you, so you can survive the doom & gloom that has been predicted for the last 2 or more years.
Spike Monster 1
Corrections in the financial markets have not yet run their course all asset classes will be impacted.. There are issues in the commercial real estate market, company bankruptcies are rising, and the interest rate rise cycle is yet to reach its peak. There is still a lot of surplus cash in the market from the bloated monetary activities of the world's central banks during COVID-19. Luxury markets have held up reasonably well during this period of uncertainty, but will not be immune forever.
I need a shot of you slowly looking up at the camera.
Are we trying to convince ourselves that the value of our watches is unchanged, maybe until you try to sell them. How much would the grey market give you for your AP ? At the moment ? Not what you paid for it, could that be because you may be able to to go into your Ad and buy one.
A grey market dealer would offer me the same today for an AP as I paid before the spike. Holy miss the point, David. Sometimes, when I make these videos, I feel I’m driving the point home too much and too hard. It seems I’m not driving it hard enough. Seeing as guys like you are leaving comments like this.
@ if you like and enjoy watches, and the purchase of these items, the price should not mean anything to you. It’s the people who keep on about the value of their collections, and how the prices have risen, that has given rise to the hike in prices, as leaving your money in the bank has been a waste of time. So leaving the door open to investors. Plus we all know we are being shafted by the Ads, especially the grey market dealers, because there is no way on Gods earth that some of the prices asked will keep on being attainable. Are they ultimately going to be museum pieces that we will stare at in glass cases.
If you are a collector and you like watches, no matter what make, and you do not intend to sell them, who’s bothered if they lose, or gain money, not me.
Most "watch people" nowadays aren't real collectors. They are victims of marketing.
@@SkywalkerPaul they are called investors
The watch market is dead and floating face down in a backyard pool. Unbelievable, but true 🍭
Don't be a lollipop sucker. I mean you do what you want with your money, but its drdrdrdropping
@@ezdeezytubedrop drop drop drop, and drop a little more.
Take care and brush your hair
The Danish Tulip Bubble, 2020 style. The more things change…well, you know the rest.
Correct. Good catch. Dutch.
The Spike is over, the bubble burst, the market crashed.... Just other wording and does not make too much difference in my opinion....
In the end RUclips is all about clickbait isn't it?
Fools are always easily parted with their money. Watches are the tools in which you get them to part with their money. It’s gold.
Oisin, if you know who the grey marketers are (at 19:31 in this video) that sold fake Rolex Pepsi's after the spike, please call them out. We do not need another Anthony Farrer to thrive in the watch market.
Exactly..
Wow, almost 100k subs. Been a viewer since you´ve been at 1,000 subs in 2019.
Me too. When Oisin only had one video listed, the Yachtmaster rodium.
I think the discussion has gotten confused as the market is a two speed market. There is the high demand watch economy (Rolex AP etc) and the second was the entry luxury market. So this video is spot on re the luxury pieces. The other watch economy/market is the Tudor/omega etc. that market is dropping and dropping fast as those who buy in this space are getting impacted by economic factors like interest rates etc. for example the Tudor blue 58 is half of what it as 18mm months ago.
Gringa was right, the actual point of her video was that the constant and incessant focus on watch prices ruins what makes watch collecting a fun hobby.
That actually wasn’t her point in that video at all…. You moron. Said video was called ‘Watches are NOT assets’. Where she carefully explained why watches are not assets and shouldn’t be treated as such. They are, of course, assets. Especially the expensive ones. On top of that, watching the prices of watches doesn’t ruin the hobby at all. It’s only one aspect of it. There a multiple others. The video was hogwash and those who related to it like yourself, just lack a few extra brain cells.
@ Yes she said they weren’t assets in the original video. But she responded and said of course any physical object is technically an asset. She was complaining how grey market dealers, social media, and watch publications called watches investments. A lot of people were getting into watches just to make money. Her point was that the focus of making money on watches shouldn’t be the focus of the hobby. The focus should be on the engineering and design of these pieces of art which your videos are so good at demonstrating.
@@MDchazshe retracted her video title and never admitted them as assets. There’s a perfectly good argument that the strong market of watches actually stimulated interest in horology and got a lot of people into it for the art and history sake too. Sorry, if you’re a fan of the shit she spewed that time, there’s something wrong with you.
@@denmark39na, no tolerance for that shit. That clairvoyant, hate spewing doom and gloomer was after clicks. Morons like our friend here fell for it.
@@denmark39that was uncalled for
Oisin you're the man! Among your best productons.
My GMT 2 of which I purchased in 1987, cost 1600.00 dollars. In today's dollars 20,000. Nothing has really changed, I always said to my friend, you cannot wear a BMW on your wrist.
$1600 in 1987 is $4300 in today’s dollars.
Got a sea dweller in France in 1992 for $2200 and a Harley Davidson the same year for $20G: I should have bought 9 more watches instead of the bike 😉
$1,600 in 1987 is nowhere near $20,000 today, at least in the US. Not sure what calculator or website you are looking at.
@@Alexgvigo yup as much as I like cars, I still prefer to spend my money on watches especially sports Rolex models. A $100k BMW will be worth $35k in 5-6 years, a GMT Pepsi or a Submariner would be worth close to or even higher after 5-6 years of wearing. Also, you can go to the other side of the world, wear your Rolex and bring the box and papers and liquidate the watch for cash, can't do that with a BMW.
Why would you want to wear a car on your wrist
"JAWS" Best Movie Ever..! Thank U for Acknowleging it..!🙏 LENNY is BACK😎 Oh & the Watch stuff is really IMPORTANT aswell..!
Great having Lenny back.
Would be interesting to hear you opinion on Rolex buying Bucherer and its consequences if any.
This is still an incestuous watch trader market created by an artificial scarcity. Traditional, regular users, ones that would buy a Rolex for retirement or special event, are out of this market. Other than an occasional rapper or some other celebrity du jour, the buyers and sellers are the same people. It's a closed system.
I agree with you. Smart value collectors are sitting on the sidelines, and I think the trend is growing in this direction.
I got into micro brands and love the ones I found! Seriously they bring me great joy. Like Farer which are beautiful watches!🔥
Fully agree. One of the outcomes for collectors that are being treated poorly at ADs is the discovery of so many affordable brands that are fun to wear on the wrist. Rolex will always be #1, but you do not have to be clairvoyant to have personal dignity and want to buy a brand or from an AD that treats you with mutual respect. Only Rolex can decide what its brand will be about and how it wants to treat new customers going forward.
I love these style of videos Oisin! Thank you for this 🙏 absolutely excellent storytelling
As the world economies get worse, the desire of luxury goods will go down naturally. The watch hype train is kaput and won't ever go back up. The days of cheap money are over, but don't take my word for it. Go check interest rates.
Another doomsday hater!
Spike monster 1
Mega dealers in trouble - wouldn’t want to be holding their retail space right now. Will always be a market for high end and vintage watches. But the idea of the usual suspects competing with Rolex is absurd…
Give 10 trillion dollars to people. Even Pokémon cards are worth millions. Madness will end sooner or later
Awesome vid. I like the way you smacked around some of the hype You Tubers.
A fine forensic analysis, and with the addition of Sir Leonard O'Malley AKA 'LENNY'......superb!.....in Lenny we trust......
This is one of the best watch videos I've seen in a long long time 👍
it’s been a major crash and the luxury watch flipping market is dead, why else are flippers only consigning. of course your daytona is worth more than what it was 5 yrs ago pre spike, but that’s only because of inflation where your pounds, euros or dollars are also worth a lot less ✌️
And how and where do I sell a valuable watch? Certainly not eBay? Unless it’s a nice Hamilton. I think it’s a secret market you influencers know about. For us average collectors the supposed value is Monopoly Money, since we don’t know where to sell anything.
I can see that your hedge fund insights has served your wealth well.
....not easy for a certain tattooed grey market top ambassador and his 'family' at Sunday lunch to digest !
I'm definitely either a hoper or a hater. Not sure which.
Watch market is dead, people paying more are lollypop suckers 😂😂💯
Always entertaining when Lenny makes an appearance!
Watches on the grey market, will stall at least 20% in the next few months, there is no economic evidence to suggest otherwise. None whatsoever.
There is no apostrophe after "market". Also, you're a spike monster 1
The market has been in free fall for 15 months, there is no micro/macro evidence, to suggest the decline will be reversed.@@CPARyan86
Solid analysis 🎉 balanced unbiased view 👍🏼
Great vid and love the Jaws clips. The motives of anyone who re-sells luxury watches will continue to be questioned based on the conduct of some very visible and bad actors. Being a well informed consumer is always wise.
BRAVO 👏🏿 BRAVO!
The only articulate response to the noise
Best channel.s
Wow. Do you have evidence, or insider knowledge, Grey market dealers passed off known fakes as legit watches? What does “it’s to my understanding” mean? How did you come to understand this?
That could be universally applied to any desirable product or commodity!
IMO the crypto factor is way overblown. The global "crypto" market lost ~$2T in value while over the same timeframe the S&P500 alone lost ~$10T. The crypto bros going broke was a lot more visible. While the silent luxury folks stopped adding hyped pieces when the markets stopped pumping.
The Enabler Paul Thorpe must be nearly ready to kick his cat, No wonder he is making so many try hard video's he is in full damage control 😂😂
😅
Absolutely spot on! And yes, “it’s pathetic that you have to mention this shit!”
Cheers🥃
So much PPP loan money in the states, and people who were already making money likely had jobs they could continue during the pandemic. Meant there's a lot of people sitting at home not spending money with a bunch of Monopoly money hitting their account. Cars, watches, musical gear....anything you can collect went crazy.
I want Lenny to meet Kino.
Great perspective on the watch market. Enjoyed the production values too.
I wouldn't call it a market crash but it really depends on how much you over paid. We still haven't bottomed out from the spike but we're still up 20% over 3 years, and almost 50% over 5 years. Luckily I didn't over pay for my Rolex and it's still up around 20% from what I paid.
Have you adjusted that with inflation? I think there are better investment assets than watches but definitely the joy they bring when wearing. Bonus if it end up making some money, not end of the world of they don't.
@@atom999 I haven't adjusted for inflation since I don't but watches as an investment and don't plan on selling anyways.
Interesting and I believe a correct description of what has occurred.
A bubble followed by a revert to the mean. I wonder if the underlining trend (excluding the bubble) you pointed out is due mostly to inflation. Watch buying wouldn’t be bad hedge against inflation assuming you buy at the mean price. Sadly I bought a tie fighter for $40k and now feel like a moron😢. Lesson learned hopefully
I checked out the 1990 Sub price (£2500) converted to include inflation for the last 33 years - it came to £5850, so even selling second hand it still beat inflation.
My local pawn shop has the AP your wearing black dial 2016 full set solid case back for 28k and their taking a hit on the watch.
If it's from 2016 then it's not the same watch
I should have said similar 😂.Another AP 15400st white/silver my friend bought for 45k,now selling for 30k.I’m gutted for him.I just got the call from my AD for a batman 3 weeks ago.I’m a collector not a flipper.
Oisin, excellent unbiased analysis on the factors that influenced the spike and watch market prices. Out of curiosity, do you buy your watches, like the AP you are wearing in this video, from an AD or the grey market? I ask because I am wondering if you see more "hyped" models becoming more readily available from brands not named Rolex, like AP.
Anyone i have a feeling that none of us here is old enough to have live through the 70s of high interest rate . And the asian financial crsis if you are in Asia. So it really depend on where you are i guess.
Oisin… you forgot to mention that one of reasons why the green Daytona is still trading at a higher price point is because it was discontinued!
Only plays a small factor.
@ all in-production precious metal Daytonas are now available at or below their retail price! This is good news for us watch collectors. The bubble has burst!
@@watchguy8537what are you smoking? Check the Daytona Le Mans...
@@bobbybobby3589 The LeMans is a special edition. I’m talking about standard precious metal Daytonas. You can get them at great prices nowadays.
I don't think anyone said that luxury watches will be worthless...but when a watch that was worth $140K is now going for half the price then that is a crash for sure. However, you want to define crash or correction
That watch wasn't worth $140k to begin with. I wouldn't call hype correction a crash.
Great breakdown to the whole situation, finally there is someone who could talk some sense, which most of the time is a hard pill to swallow for the mass, they would rather live in their own delusion than facing the truth
Never bought on the grey market... the watches I've sold, I have always done so privately. If I cannot get a watch then I just come to terms with it and wait until something else catches my eye.
Excellent video but let’s also not forget the CPO side. CPO seem to be offering a higher rate to buy back a rolex. So not just they are making money from selling rival products, they would also be taking business away from the grey market and setting the baseline price for pre owned. Why would I sell my hulk to a grey dealer when rolex are offering me more and a potential to start a long term relationship…
Thank You !!!
Thanks for your insights. I kind of wonder about the future after most baby boomers die off, will there be enough watch fans to keep the market going up? -and not just for wrist watches but also items like collectable guitars or musical instruments. BTW: I don't really worry as I buy, own & enjoy! Things to ponder...
I think the watch market is down
In sum.. during the spike we got four new assholes... now we are back to normal .. getting two new assholes...
You and a few others are the only ones telling the truth. However, there are still people who want nothing to do with truth, unless it’s their truth. Great job.
Fun video and topic! The demand for desirable pieces at retail through authorized channels is still very high. Business in the secondary markets is going through an adjustment. Spike, crash, correction… it makes for a great debate and discussion.
I am impressed . Your best video so far. Respect for very good work and entertaining
Bingo. The watch spike was created by the overvaluation of crypto. The overlay of crypto bros and lux watches is very similar.
Great video!! Loved Lenny’s last comment
Love to see Lenny back. Great video !
Well done. Well done.
How, in all my years of obsessive, lustful and persistent immersion in the world of watches have I only encountered Oisin today!?! 25/09/2023!!! Entertaining, engrossing and inciteful content, so much so I deeply resent RUclips for not offering up any of his video’s until now! Oisin, fine work Sir. Keep it up, while I catch up!
Christ. You have a lot of catching up to do. Best of luck! And welcome.
Thanks for the reality check! So nice to hear common sense rather than sensationlism….
Lenny is back! Fantastic video!
What is the future of luxury watches? 1. Without new enthusiasts coming on board - demographic impact. 2. Fewer and fewer professional watchmakers (supply / servicing)
Great video. Best analysis I’ve seen so far.
Thank you- I look forward to seeing more of Vienna. Do you know the Billy Joel song of the same name?
Perfectly said!!!!
I'm the confused monster, not sure whose opinion of the situation I would bet on. At least I'm also the entertained monster! Great video, Oisin.
Oisin, you're in denial. If we conveniently take the spike off the chart, for argument sake, we should be higher than where we are today. Look at the steady trend before the spike and look where we are now, at least 15% below, depending on the Rolex model. Some models have fallen much further down. There was a crash from the peak, of course. It would be called a crash in the stock market. Wake up, man.
all collecting has cycles. Guitars, cars, watches, etc. Of course there will be a peak but watch for the generational turn when the young guys who have money have no interest in a watch...much like vintage autos of the 50's and now some guitars
Finally somebody explains it as it is...
Great summary and perspective Oisin. I’ll be in Venice this week and look forward to seeing many of the sights you’ve showcased. Thanks for the videos and great content. Cheers Mike
JM is more like 70k unused.
BUT great video and overall view. Things may drop a little more but unlikely in my opinion steel Rolex will go back to retail. Cheers.
Which currency are you speaking in? Tell me it’s not GBP
The haters have found a home with one grey hair senile you tuber with a friend name Tino, who is his imaginary friend . He is the number one hater. You are so on it with this video. Keep it up
I’ve said before and I’ll say it again…Oisin, I really appreciate the approach to the subject matter in these videos. Finally a watch RUclipsr with a positive attitude and message about the value of watches. It’s nothing to be ashamed of and the doom and gloom is like a fecking echo chamber. Thank you sir. 🤝🏻
Oisin,
Great watch market explanation. Hello Lenny 😊
Intelligent content as always, thank you!
Another great video. I am retired now and my watch collection is getting complete, I will add a Tudor GMT and that will be that. Rolex prices will remain strong because of demand. Buy what you can afford and be happy with your collection.
I do not know which Tudor GMT you prefer, but I love the new praline (white) dial version. It is very easy to read. I do know that the black dial version is on the grey market for less than retail if you shop around from a trusted grey market dealer.
I’ve just picked up a 16570 explorer 2 with box and papers, 2005 model with rehaut engraving for £6.5k. Would have cost £8k plus last year. This sounds right in line with what you are saying. However I bought this watch from watchfinder….
"Spike or a Crash, That is the question". William Shakespeare ... Thanks for the vid !
Just got my new timex waterbury chronograph colored dial, this thing is amazing!!! Poor man's zenith chronomaster.
Having no Grey Market will push Rolex prices up! Rolex are wanting to control the prices of their watches. Sad times ahead IMHO
The long time grey market dealers who are trusted will adjust to the new market conditions. The Rolex CPO is for watches that are at least 3 years old. Plus, the Rolex CPO price from Bucherer are absurdly higher then the grey market today, and the trade in at the AD is much lower then what you get on the grey market. Only time will tell what will happen with pre-owned watches.
Oisin, great video and great explanation! I think you are spot on sir...
Good job, you sound good and look better. Not one mention of Hopper’s Alsta dive watch.
Love your take on the matter and style of video as always 🤌🏼
1) most people that hate the watch market cant afford them. RUclipsrs are rightly taking advantage of the sentiment in order to get views
2) full time watch youtubers in general dont have a lot of income, so they also have the same bias as above 1) and tend to cheer the down market.
I AM WITH YOU ✋✋✋✋✋✋✋
Great vid, you had me at Jaws………..