Seems you don't understand that persona is a blend of rpg and visual novel if you don't like visual novels maybe you should not play It. Also showing Ann to prove the game just has characters with silly teenage problems Is pretty weird lol. As if the 100 hours you spend on the game are just scenes of walking waking up or planning meetings
I disagree. Games like Metaphor as I see it wouldn't hit as hard if they were more concise, taking time to build the world is very important. Slowly seeing your approval go from peasant to king is very satisfying, it makes it feel like a journey. When your support rating in Persona 5 hits 0, that moment has been built up for nearly 70 hours because you see your support rating every day and seeing that be destroyed only hits because of all the context. Take the Trails series as an example. Nothing happens in Trails From Zero that has anything to do with Azure in terms of stakes, the game just ends rather anticlimactically, no crazy cliffhanger. But Azure wouldn't work without Zero because Zero sets up a lot of conflict and important plot beats that get followed up in Azure, you might say that these are two different games but I disagree, they're more like part 1 part 2 than just normal sequels. Azure is complete balls to the walls while Zero is slower and more world buildy yet both are important, I hate games that constantly throw you into action for no reason because they have to move the plot along, some quiet moments are necessary. I can't get through a COD or BF campaign without feeling burnt out because they feel exhausting to play with how much happens in a short period of time but I can comfortably put 100 hours in P5 because pacing is way slower and I can digest it. And finally, the title is just wrong. You can't say something shouldn't exist when it clearly works for a lot of people. Overall, pretty good video even though I do disagree, keep it up! Always nice to support smaller creators
You make a fair point, especially with Trails. I don’t particularly like most of the series, but I know that people love the payoff that can only be experienced with a series that has this many interconnected games. I can’t fault the series for doing something you can’t really find elsewhere, but judging the games individually, they definitely are too slow for me. I did enjoy Daybreak, though!
90% of comments being about "too much story" Meanwhile Etrian Odyssey Nexus have minimal story, attack animations capping at milliseconds long, turns being 10-15 seconds fast, cutscenes are maybe 40 seconds and still have the main game averaging 76 hours according to google
@@soratheorangejuicemascot5809 Its not even mainly Shrine faut - theres only 3 shrine you play in the main game. Its legit the fact that the game have 10+ main dungeons and almost double digits sub dungeons. Between Drawing Maps and exploring, those adds up even if theyre a miniaturized version I actually LOVED the first shrine, and honestly the gimmick of 3 and 2 was really cool.
I do get where you’re coming from, but we also don’t live in a world where one glove will fit all sizes. Let’s look at movies since you brought it up. Movies are generally 1.5-3 hours long. A good movie will usually be able to introduce a world, characters, main conflict, villain, the various aspects of the hero’s journey, the finale, and the ending. It’s short enough to where people won’t generally get bored but can still offer enough thrills and emotion to get people invested. A good film maker can make it work, but it’s very rare that we get movies that can accomplish the aspects of a plot well with the time given. Some people need more time to tell their stories and develop characters. Just look at the many failed adaptations of books that people slam for cutting too many details. TV on the other hand is very slow and can be plodding at times but also allows for a potentially deeper exploration of characters and world building. TV can accomplish other goals like more complex plot lines and relationships due to the increased time afforded by the format. Many people end up extremely attached to these characters and enjoy spending as much time as they can with them. People who want different things can choose to either watch a movie or a TV show based on their mood or preferences. There’s certainly a case to be made for games that don’t waste the player’s time, and I certainly agree with that. (Animal Crossing NH) I completely agree with what you said about Xenoblade 2’s fluff, as I hate when excessive animations soak up my time for no reason. But it also sounds more like you’re getting annoyed that you’re trying to complete all the RPGs ever made, and it’s becoming hard for you personally since those games are long and more keep coming out. I don’t think forcing games to bend to your personal standards is really fair criticism when RPGs still come in a variety of lengths and flavors nowadays, it’s just the ones you pick happen to be 100s of hours. There’s still smaller stuff coming out like Sea of Stars, Chained Echoes, Bug Fables, Mario & Luigi, DQ 3 HD, etc. So to get mad at the length of RPGs without mentioning the smaller games is just a self-made problem. It’s like saying you’re upset that The Game of Thrones TV show was 8 seasons, because that’s just too long. Who would want to spend their time like that? They should have just made it into 3 movies like The Lord of the Rings so we could be done quicker and move on to the next thing! Or saying that Harry Potter should have only been 1 book and ended with Harry killing Voldemort, because it’s a waste of my time. Other people still enjoyed it, so it still has value outside of your personal tastes. Not everything is going to be interesting to someone on a personal level, but we have so much selection available now that it shouldn’t matter. Like you said with Metaphor and Persona, they’re bloated social simulators with neat combat systems and some people would rather just play the latter half. Well, good news! Shin Megami Tensei exists and most of them are extremely combat heavy with a minimal focus on the narrative. They made flavors of game to cater to different demographics, which allows them to reach a large variety of people. Now do I think that 5000 hours on FFXIV is insane? Yes, extremely. But the statistical likelihood that someone will become worth writing textbooks about is very low, so I say let the people play their funny little Catgirl RP simulator. They’re probably not going to make a difference in the world regardless, but at least they can spend time with their friends and family playing something they like. Life isn’t explicitly about min-maxing everything, it’s about making sure you’ve enjoyed how you’ve spent the time. Great video, actually made me type out a comment!
A lot of this just really depends on the rpg, and it's intended audience. A person who likes the fast paced hack and slash combat of DMC might not like the slower, more thought out and strategic combat of a turn based rpg like bg3. A person who likes a more linear game that pushes a compelling story like the last of us might not enjoy a really open non hand holding rpg like Elden Ring. It really just all comes down to a persons personal preference. Well for the hours it's not so much of Hours = Value rather its Hours x Quality = Value. A game like Spiderman 2 was praised heavily, and enjoyed by many despite it being a 30 hour game priced at 70 dollars. Well Assassins Creed Valhalla is a 60 -70 hour game for like 60 dollars, but people hate on it for being too long since the contents quality wasn't that great. I enjoy a pretty large variety of games, but I generally find myself the most engaged and entertained in immersive rpgs whether that be skyrim/modded skyrim, or BG3, and I'm generally willing to dump 50-100 hours into repeated playthroughs when I get into it. Now is that done within a span of a weekend or a week? no It generally takes me a month or so since I juggle that with college and other things, but that doesn't stop me from getting that enjoyment, or feeling satisfied with my experience because if It did I wouldn't have been replaying these games every now and then over the past few years. Well I know there's plenty of others out here who feel the same as I do, just like how I know there are plenty of people who feel the same as you. Instead of saying one type of rpgs shouldn't exist, I think it would be better to argue why it's ok for rpgs to not have to be 50+ hours long since both sides of the stick should exist, since they both have their audiences.
Fair. I do feel the slog of any dialogue heavy sequence that lasts over 20 minutes. Reminds me of when MGS4 got criticized for an hour long cutscene and most of it being a movie but now people just accept 2-5 hours of cutscenes in a row with minimum gameplay. Padding with fetch quests and meaningless dialogue is just not good game design.
I love how people who feel this way are always the ones who spend hundreds of hours if the game is multiplayer or if it is open world lol, otherwise they don't care enough to spend that many hours.
@ he’s roasting all of us, but he wouldn’t know so much about these games if he hadn’t also played them himself. He probably also, to a degree, enjoyed them or he wouldn’t passionately make a video about them. This is a group roast and he is clearly a part of it.
I just completed 130 hours of persona 5, and can honestly say it did not feel like a slog for me until the last 20 hours. I agree that they do repeat themselves way too much for filler, but I dont think it is fair to compare it to Mario RPG when Atlus is literally known for its story telling and character development, and Mario is a platformer that went a different genre for a couple games to widen their audience. Mario doesnt have to care about story, because it never had to, its not why people play that game. If I play an Atlus game, its because i look forward to that long story and the regular cutscene breaks. Drawn out jrpgs pull off story telling in ways that other genres just cant do. Nobody is going to say they got the same quality of story from Parasite Eve as with Xenoblade 2.
Remember when disk/cartridge space on games was limited? Those were good times. The problem with gaming nowadays is that everything is possible, the ceiling is too high for anyone to reach so they don't even bother. Games were better when they strove to reach that ceiling. That's why you see so much bloat.
Dude, you're right af don't even listen to these people saying you're wrong, or (even worse!) don't listen to the ones trying to justify persona having a thousand hours
I've been thinking about this of late, and I think it's because where I'm at in life, but I find myself distancing from these massively epic 50+ hour long games that set out with the goal of being long for the sake of being long, and really enjoying games that have quality gameplay that is replayable and quick. For example, I have had no problems playing Hades for 100 hours, but playing metaphor for that long just seems like an impossible task.
Social links are not meant to be done in one in game week, some social links can only be done on a certain day, others require higher social stats, some social links unlock other social links, planning in-game days is not just deciding which characters you want to hang out with. And the dungeon crawling part of the game is also important in this, you have to prepare for the Dungeons because you want to do the dungeon in one go so you have more time for social links and making your social stats higher
I really enjoy the longer games when they are done correctly and supported through gameplay, though I also think it shouldn't take half a playthrough for something to "get good" lol
I can't even tell you how many times I went from "Dude, yeah, same!" to "Oh, he's being sarcastic" and back to "Hell yeah, me too!" And yeah, you got me. I did indeed play Baldur's Gate 3 again right after I finished it. Gotta get that Dark Urge playthrough.
Why are you so angry for games you can just not play if you don't want to? 💀 Also you really are just the entire video just saying "games were better in my time"
If those 50+ hours of a game are pretty consistently good, then it doesn't matter to me. If it has an addictive gameplay loop or a genuinely interesting story, then I'd normally want even more of it. But that depends on every person. If you don't find the game interesting or engaging enough, then obviously you'd feel like those 50+ hours are a waste of time.
P5 is a great game. It probably could have used an editor to remove redundant text though. The Xenoblade games are way too big, cripplingly so. Chrono Trigger is the greatest JRPG ever made, and it takes 15 - 20 hours to beat it. Anywhere between 20 hours and 35 hours is the sweet spot. Between 35 hours and 45 hours is also tolerable, but this is the point at which it begins to sour.
I say let the market decide. If devs want to make a long game and players exist who want to buy it who are we to tell them no? I have no desire to play a game like minecraft but that doesn't mean I believe games like minecraft shouldn't exist. If some people want their slow paced drawn out stories let them have them while you can enjoy what you like.
This has been a problem a LONG time now, like since PS2/PS3/360 era. I just threw the whole bathroom out with the turds and converted full time to action-adventure, Roguelites/Roguelikes, Fighting Games, and Music Games. Ain't nobody got time for character development when you've got PLAYER DEVELOPMENT. Ain't nobody got time to grind character levels when you can be grinding/labbing YOUR SKILLS AND RANKS. Ain't nobody got time for unskippable FMV narrative when you're out here LIVING THE LORE.
Depends on where you are in life. As a kid, I loved it when games were long because my family was broke and if my parents bought me a game I had to make it last. As an adult with responsibilities, if it's more than 20 hours, it had better be enthralling.
Skill issue, i work full time and can very reasonably beat these 80+ hour long epics often below that hour mark within a month. You have tiktok zoomer brain, go ruin a different genre by making them poorly paced 20 hour long shitfests trying to be marvel movies
Metaphor was a good game, but had way too much story. The gameplay was really good in it and the story was mostly good, but there was just too much. You'd finish a 30 minute dungeon and then it's 2 hours of walking, talking to people and cutscenes with 0 combat. They could have told a just of good of a story if they reduced the cutscenes and dialogue in the game by at least 20% to 30%. Amazing RPG games like FF6 and Chrono Trigger had like a 10 minute long cutscene as the longest cutscene and still told an amazing story. Too much story is a massive issue in modern RPG games.
i think it depends on the game because imo there has been some very long games that took 60+ hours that i enjoyed a lot and they did not feel like a drag to get through for how much fun i was having. infarct there are some shorter games i played that felt like it took much longer due to how tedious it felt. but i definitely do agree that there are some games out there that go on way too long for its own good.
Oh yeah, shorter games can have plenty of padding as well. This isn't an issue exclusive to longer RPGs. I played that Live a Live remake last year and was enjoying it up until the final arc. Complete filler, and the game's only like 20 hours long.
@@RushHourWeekend yeah Live A Live i liked and the final chapter of that game i just got the people i wanted and just went straight to the boss to finish it.
The chapter that opens up after you finish the Middle Ages. There’s basically no story; just dungeon crawl, recruit characters, get everyone’s best weapons, and fight random battles until you’re ready to finish the chapter. It completely goes against the rigid structure of every prior chapter. I don’t much care for the random battles, either. I think Live a Live is an excellent game up until that last chapter.
Naw, I'm good with it. If I pay full price for a game, and I usually do for jrpgs, the longer the better lol games ain't getting any cheaper, so I definitely expect all the content I can get. You can always just run through the main story and finish most of them pretty quickly anyway, but the more optional side content and story building that I can get, the better. Especially for 70 dollars 😂 I beat Metaphor Refantazio in about 150 hours. Money well worth spent.
I mean.... depends on the game. I spent 200+ hours on each dark souls game. I enjoy getting so into a game i forget about the rest of the world for 50-300 hours
Man, what happened to replayability and RPGs nowadays surely is a crime. Every game with RPG elements apparently have an excuse to be 100 hours long. Concise experiences with inherent replay value? Nah, put cutscene and scripted as heck gameplay segments in that!
I’ve been experiencing this firsthand with the Ys X Nordics demo. It bombards you with constant cutscenes while only having occasional moments of gameplay. The towns felt bland with a lot of places having invisible walls. I understand having a prologue but there should always be a point where it immediately becomes apparent that the game is “letting you loose” but that never happened here. There was so much talking that the game doesn’t even introduce the first equipment shop to you until a little over 2 hours into the game. I felt like a child being strung along waiting for the game to let me go. There is a strong focus on prioritizing world-building over a well-paced experience that balances gameplay and storytelling. I love what you said about “figuring things out as you go.” World-building in a game should be experienced through the player, driven by their curiosity and interaction with the world, rather than being directly imposed on them for long stretches at a time. This approach allows gameplay to take center stage while gradually delivering story, exposition, and plot development as you progress. Ys X left a bad impression on me but I still want to give the other games a fair shot. Are there any Ys games that you recommend? I see you mentioned Ys Origins. I also noticed you’ve been enjoying Trails Through Daybreak which is cool to hear. As someone who's been somewhat intimidated by the Trails games, I’m very interested in picking that one up.
Ys games are my jam but there’s a catch for some of them. For the “all killer, no filler” games, you can’t do better than the Napishtim era: Ark of Napishtim, Oath in Felghana, and Origin. If any of these takes over 10 hours to beat, you’re doing something seriously wrong. There’s a little bit of dialogue but you can just blitz through it. Play Oath for the boss fights and challenge (and music), Origin for the variety (and music), and Napishtim if you’re craving more. I’d also recommend Ys 1 and 2, though you need to be willing to give the bump combat a chance. If you can manage it, I don’t think there’s a faster-paced set of games Falcom’s ever made. For the party-based games, Ys Seven unfortunately was going through some growing pains. You have to spam charge attacks constantly to build meter, you learn skills from equipment which means keeping your dinky shit equipped longer than you’d like, and the parry window is very small and requires you to press two buttons which I never got used to, so I’m not a huge fan. Celceta is awesome; I think it’s one of the more underrated entries. It’s also like 15 hours long, which is perfect. Ys 8 and 9 are both great BUT I had to skip the cutscenes and sidequests. Ys 8 is bloated to the max, with way too much yippity yapping for the first half, and you’ve unfortunately gotta do the sidequests to get the true ending. But I’ve played that game 4 times and love it; just gotta skip every cutscene. Ys 9 is pretty much the same deal. Daybreak is the only Trails game I enjoyed. Van is a more interesting protagonist to me than Lloyd and Rean, probably because he’s not a kid. And I love the hybrid real-time/turn-based combat system. And don’t tell anyone, but I even liked some of the sidequests. But man, it also has parts where it feels like you’re spending 3 hours just running around town talking to people, but that’s Trails for ya.
im a slow player in general and in persona id spend a lot of time in the velvet room and also with side quests and im just indecisive so fusion as a mechanic is gonna take me forever Eventually i got tired. i have like 150 hours in p5r after shido and stopped i finished portable just before p3r came out and im at the end of p3r now but it took months and several breaks because it was easy to get tired I think persona as a formula just is so easy to feel burnt out on. Everything takes forever. Playing them back to back doesnt help Ive been playing mother 3 recently after all these long atlus games and its pacing feels so perfect. Chapter 1-5 switch perspectives around, theyre each about 1-2 hours long and chapter 6 is just a cutscene. Chapter 7 is a big section of gameplay and story sequences thats tightly paced, where you travel to several new unique areas. Chapter 8 is where i am now. Its the endgame and i have about 20 hours on my file. 25ish hours at the end feels unbelievable lol. Something else i appreciate is that a lot of the cutscenes speak volumes without a word, just letting the animation do the talking since Lucas is silent for a lot of the game. Its really powerful and even though hes silent, you can really feel his emotions
The games I played the most(I think) were Nioh2-800h and Elden ring at 400h. EVERYTHING from making alt builds to NG+ to co-oping with buddies and pvp.
I've got a ton of playtime in Nioh 2 as well, but that length doesn't come from completing all the story stages, which doesn't take long. And that's kind of the point: the replay value keeps me hooked longer than a bloated campaign will.
Nah. I want my Jrpgs long. The longer the better. Metaphor is my fave game, and The Persona series is my fave game series and i always want them long. They are basically Visual Novels, which I love.
A lot of games are riciculusly long and aren't constantly fun because of filler content and some activities in some games take way longer than it should to stay fun, that much is true. There is a lot of merit in these consensed experiences witch get mostly reed of filler. Some of these games like Ys origin and kid icarus uprising are among my favorites. HOWEVER When it come to games with a heavy focus on the story, what's filler and what isn't is not easy to differentiate, not to mention the subjective POV of different players witch can lead to very different opinions in that matters. You don't find meaning with the many character interactions in P5 but some people do. Now yes, a lot of interactions are not essential to the plot but if every f*cking line of dialogue did, it would just make the story too artificial and the world not believable. It's a group a teenagers in modern days, of course they're gonna have a ton of unmeaningful interactions just like IRL. And yes, i know these characters aren't real, but if we can be emotional to the point of crying other fictionnal stories, then it's pretty safe to say that a large portion of IRL logic apply to fiction too. I'm not saying P5 doesn't have pacing issues or writting issues in general, in fact i don't think the story of P5 is amazing but it's still a good time. Games like Trails, Fate/stay night (and VN in general), lower budget gacha games like PGR, arknights, path to nowhere etc... have plenty of time where the story slows down for more down to earth characters with no groundbreaking stakes aside from maybe character insecurities. Like i said in your "slow burn excuse" video, if you can't get the appeal of that it's on you. Or maybe it's the execution of the slow down moments that you think is lacking but if that's the case you've done a poor job at explaining why across your 2 videos. NO really, i feel like you're in an hamster wheel at this point and you're making another video about it ?. You also said that quality of quantity is know by everyone but the reality is that in the writting department, there 2 sides of the same coin. And no, just because you can make a good story in a 20h long game doesn't mean that no game should not make it longer. Combine your inhability to see the point of down to earth character interaction ( because YES, even the most cliché, cringe, overly long, """boring""" character interaction can still help the player have a better understanding of character relationships or make them progress and therefore have meaning ) with your sarcastic attitude and of course people gonna get mad at you. ( exemple at 3:54 like seriously "have a 20H long dongeon crawler for people who enjoy video games and a 500H visual novel" for the others : it's insulting. Visual novels are in the video game category whether you like it or not ) Also 7:47 "games are not about interacting with it, they're about watching cutscenes" Dude seriously... If you have a good understanding of what makes a game fun to you and if you know what makes you have a bad time, then for the love of god do your research before buying a game ! Because again, you really give me the impression that you can't understand different games appeal to different audiences despite having plenty of comments saying that in your "slow burn excuse" video yet you still don't get it. Medias are like toolboxes. A book just have text and images in it but video games on the other hand have the largest toolset and it's up to the video game creator to decide what tool they'll use and how much. If they choose to not use gameplay tool all that often, it's their choice and there's nothing wrong with that unlike what you seem to believe. About the grinding and the lack of QOL additions, is it really a deal breaker ? In Xenoblade 2, not to me. About the absurd handholding i actualy agree. And yes, those who defend their favorites games by saying "it's become good after 20H" do a poor job at making other play these games. I've already said a lot in your "slow burn excuse" video so i'm not gonna repeat myself more than that. Bottom line is slow pacing isn't always bad pacing, espacially in the writting department.
you can sum this up to external vs internal gratification. If I take it that you enjoy games like shmups enough to put dozens of hours into them I assume you're more on the internal side of the spectrum. A lot of the critiques you posit are things people like. People love to see big areas, big numbers and level up screens. They aren't arbitrary, they just aren't really for you since you probably highly prioritize personal achievement, skill development, pattern recognition etc.
if you want to complete even the longest of long RPG within 50 hours, go for it man. There's plenty tools like cheatengines that allow you to speed up the engine 2x,4x. But to attempt ''theres no reason an rpg should be longer than 50 hours'' is straight asylum thinking man.
I mean, not never, but it shouldn't be the standard. I feel the same with movie runtimes. Movies generally feel better when they are 90 minutes and don't hang too much on the resolution, but it still depends on how much of something is filler versus meaningful content.
For me time in a game doesn't really matter. If it's fun for most of my playthrough, i'll finish it, if it's meh i'll drop it. If you are truly liking a JRPG, then you'll try to do 80% ~ 100%. If you think the game is good, but don't want to do everything, then you'll do 60% ~79% or just beat the game without the side quests. And then there are the persona games in which not doing 80% ~ 100% is a waste. You'll probably drop, but if you beat it, then after that you'll be burnt out of games for a while. It almost happened to me after playing Metaphor and P3R consecutively. Now i'm continuing the trails series. It's the best series to just shut your mind and enjoy the vibes, until you get to the final boss, that is.
I'm seeing that $1 = 1 hour thing more and more on Steam reviews, and it just makes me feel like I should quit gaming altogether. I'm never getting another tightly designed Rayman game like Origins or Legends, Doom Eternal had no buisness being 12 hours, I will never play Red Dead 2 a second time. I don't even take issue with long games, I really enjoyed the 100+ hours I spent with DQ11, but so few games justify their length. I was desperately skipping dialogue by the end of Persona 5 because the characters were just repeating themselves, saying absolutely nothing of value just to pad the runtime. And of course the comments here are full of the same old shite "maybe jrpgs aren't for you??????". Chrono Trigger was 50+ hours was it? FFVII took months to beat, did it? Please invite me over to your house when Persona 6 comes out, I want to sit and watch your face when the quirky teenagers are calling you at the end of the day to remind you of everything you just achieved in the dungeon 15 minutes ago. And you best be smiling, and don't you fucking dare hit that X button.
You cooked bro, don't let the anime profile pictures in the comments ( wait I'm one as well ) tell you otherwise. Persona heads are a special kind of deranged people.
OK we get it your not an rpg guy. And you probably don't like visual novels either,we all have genres we don't like. I don't like shooters, or Rouge like that with some exceptions like Doom eternal, Some Resident evil games, Hades,one step from eden and etc. So maybe you'll like crosscode a 2d action rpg that's as short or long as you want It too be 15-30 for main story.and the main character has a speech impediment due to a bug and can only speak in limited phrases and body language.some examples hi,bye,sorry,thanks,why,how,Lea, HUGS and "Nods head". And if that's too much for you Undertale or deltarune is only 1-3 hours long man.
Heavy disagree. I think the main issue is with jrpgs and games in general padding time out a lot with pointless or uninteresting bullshit. a 100 hour game is fine and can be great as long as it's filled with interesting story, characters, mechanics, levels throughout it.
It's funny cause you mentioned only japanese games. Ahahahahaha That's how they are, anime has fillers, manga can take awhile from one edition to another etc. Good work on the video, seems people are getting mad and leaving comments, which is good for engagement. I agree to a certain extent with your points, i value good character development and wouldn't mind if the characters are saying meaningful stuff, but most of the time is just filler boring conversation. With P5R, for example, after awhile i'd just zone out and fast foward if the dialogue didn't have any voice acting.
I get the feeling that you would be better off being less salty about modern AAA games and try out some of the Indie games on the market. Then if thoes aren't your jam, just go back to retro gaming. It's not a sin to do so.
Think other people are missing the points amongst your sarcasm. These games do have a bunch of time wasters, there could be way more QoL and denser better writing. The length of the experience isnt neccasarily the problem, its how much of that length is wasted time.
This video is way too short and concise. At 15 min. it's far too easy to watch the whole thing and understand the points being discussed. I think this video should be AT LEAST 5 hours long. This way I am given the chance to be distracted by my phone or anything else.
I 100% AGREE. when you get beyond that 50 hour mark it becomes obvious when going through the scenario that entire missions or sections of the story are just nothing more than filler. FFVIIR is so egregious with this... a 5 hour segment in the original becomes 45 with nearly the exact same amount of information given except at a snail's pace. I can appreciate Nier Automata removing much of the problems with replaying sections of the game with literally nothing new happening in the previous games(looking at you, the like two times I had to replay act iI of NieR replicant after route B, still think it's amazing regardless)
Oh yeah, 7 Remake and Rebirth are way too damn long. I love the combat in Rebirth, but you could slash that game in half and make it twice as good. As for Nier, that’s one of those games where I like watching the cutscenes on RUclips more than relaying the game. Yoko Taro’s games are too repetitive for my taste.
Cry as much as you like, he's right. Persona 4 is my favorite video game story of all time, yet I think that 40 out of 90 hours of it are waste of time.
I prefer games that are longer short games I tend to always want more so I disagree with this the longer a game the better you have mmos that or mobas that can have thousnds of hours.. as soon as I get to an end of a fantastic RPG and see was like only 20 hrs that pisses me off both on the fact it could have been so much more added to the game like FF6 amazing game but go load up and play its T-edition it adds so much more story more to do and when you finish you can load up ex patch and fight superbosses.
Game padding especially in jrpgs have always been an annoying part of the games. I'd rather have 20-30 hours of solid gameplay and character development than 50+ hours of slogging through meaningless and often cringy dialogues and grinding. Only little kids and unemployed folks will disagree because they have a lot more time on their hands than the rest of us.
To be fair to BG3, the length and pace of the combat there kind of comes with the territory of the genre mechanics: that just kind of is what it's like to play a 5e campaign, other than the speed of the attack animations (which usually aren't really longer than rolling a die). Something like Neverwinter Nights is a pretty similar experience. That being said having played a good chunk of Act I so far the story/companions do feel pretty thin and aimless. I enjoy each individual combat scenario and quest and think it's a good distillation of a 5e session with a creative DM, but it does start to feel pretty unfocused.
Its weird. I spent a massive amount of time on MHGU and MH4U but I really really cant stand spending time with the tedious sidequest of NieR Automata for some reason.
I'm constantly saying this. Persona 5 and The Legend of Heroes Trails games might have some of the best combat in the modern day RPG, but the padding is absolutely absurd. There's like 80 The Legend of Heroes Trails games and every single one of them have near identical gameplay with only slight variations between each of them as a one time gimmick per game. Each of these games though take atleast 60-80 hours to complete and do a majority of the side quests(excluding the secret side quests where you need to talk to everyone after every new instance to be able to find.) The Legend of Heroes games have it so that the dialogue to all the NPCs in the game that you can speak to changes after every new instance of an event, so if you really want to waste your time you can, but it really adds nothing to the game. Now while Parasite Eve and Symphony of the Night are great examples, some more modern examples are the Castlevania Dominus Collection and dthe Suikoden 1 and 2 Collection that have or are coming out. The fact that most people's most anticipated releases are ports and remasters in the modern day just shows how much gaming has gone to crap. But on Suikoden 1, I have uploaded a playthrough where I finish the game with all 108 stars in under nine hours, so despite the game being less than 10 hours to complete, you've got more than 108 characters throughout the storyline. Now most of these characters are just a one and done deal and a lot of them are just like, sure I'll join, and that's it, but most of them have integral parts to the games storyline in which they then join. Infact. In the very first hour of Suikoden, you meet with Barbarosa, your commanding officer, have dinner with Tio before being sent off, meet Futch, who takes you to an island where you go through a dungeon and fight the first boss, meet Leknaat and her apprentice and are told the prophecy of your character as one of the stars of destiny, go back to Gregminster, get sent to another town from Commander Kraze a town which the mayor isn't paying taxes and blames it on bandits, which you go and defeat but only after seeing Ted destroy the giant queen ant thing with the Soul Eater, so the second boss, fight the bandit leaders as the third boss, go back to provide the taxes back to the mayor, the officer who was sent with you informs of the rune Ted used to destroy the queen ant, Ted comes back wounded and you have to leave him for dead to escape after being betrayed by Pahn, Viktor helps you escape Gregminster and meet with Odessa of the liberation army and you're then requested to rescue the bandits who were strung up on poles. All that in the span of a single hour. No filler, no bs, everything straight to the point and you've got a lot of great character development without just so much bloated unnecessary dialogue shoved down your throat like in the Trails games, the Trails games which an hour in you'll likely on finish the games tutorial dungeon. The amount of padding in modern games is really quiite ridiculous.
I’m not sure how many people share this opinion, but I vastly prefer Suikoden 1 to 2 precisely because it’s a shorter game. For me, a casual playthrough takes around 15 hours, and I’m completely satisfied with its pacing. Suikoden 2 takes a few hours to really get rolling, and I heard the PS2 entries are real slogs.
@@RushHourWeekend I agree. The second game has worse pacing, takes a bit to get started but not only that, the pacing just goes to sh** after Luca Blight gets killed. The Neclord section where you have the chance to just completely escape the country for a bad ending especially. I haven't completed any of the PS2 games so I guess I could agree, but I have played 3, 4, and 5. 4 I didn't complete only because it wasn't very good and rushed to the end with almost no characters and after you hit the point of no return there's no exiting the last dungeon. You can go back to the boat to do stuff, but my max weapon upgrade was level 5 and I couldn't defeat the final boss no matter how many attempts. Suikoden 3, I feel like is the best of them, but I decided to put the game down after I cleared all three of main chapters for each character and got to where I had castle. At some point I then put the game down and when I came back I restarted my character. Got to the same point, same thing happened again, and one more time. Well, now I don't restart completely when I come back to a game but that doesn't help with Suikoden 3 where I no longer have a save data and I just can't even play through all the main chapters to get to the end anymore. I've just completely ruined any experience I might have on the game. Then Suikoden 5. I played the first 10 hours and I just couldn't play anymore. Apparently it gets good after that, but I'm not one to believe people who say it gets good in x hours. I even decided to pick Final Fantasy 13 up after 16 hours because of this claim. And to answer, no, Final Fantasy 13 doesn't get good after 16 hours like everyone who tries to defend that garbage claims.
I haven't played all the Trails games yet, but of the ones I played from Zero to CS3, none of them took me more than 50 hours to beat. Zero only took me about 35 hours to beat actually.
@@Merk1387 I guess it didn't save my reply because I included a link in the video. It really depends on what difficulty you play it on I guess. I can tell you that I probably wouldn't have played through any of them if I played through them on normal difficulty though with just how much bloat is in the story because the games really would have been 99.9% story and walking around then. I've completed all of the games from the very start on nightmare or whatever the games highest difficulty. I think Trails of Cold Steel 2 has an additional chapter after Finale, but a screenshot of my save of the end of the finale chapter included 69 hours and all of my characters on nightmare at level 130. I RUclips'd Trails of Cold Steel 2 Finale and the first video that came up was a hard difficulty playthrough ending at the exact same level. Anyways, same level, I almost had an additional 20 hours extra, so the time difference would have been the bosses higher stats or for whatever reason there was a 20 hour difference, but it definitely wasn't level grinding which is why I'm pointing out the same level. Oh, I did get all S ranks in the snowboarding, so that likely took some of that time as well. But if you watch that final video though, it's 36 minutes from the final battle to the end of the game. That's 36 minutes and skimming through looks like 30 minutes of it is actual dialogue. Knowing what has happened there's not a lot. Crow dies, which I actually think he's not dead because where I quit on ToCS3 at the end of the chapter 1 or 2, I think that was him. Which coincidentally isn't the first time someone came back to life since right after that, Rean's father comes back to life, because yeah, it was just a replacement character that looked like him was killed. Compare that 30 minutes of almost nothing going on, to the whole string of events when getting back to Gregminster with Kanaan and Ted on Suikoden. It takes six minutes for all those events to take place. Kanaan takes Ted, the rest of the party finishes dinner, after dinner everyone is wondering where Ted is at and he's wounded at the entrance of the home with a magic wound, Ted tells everyone about what happened in a flashback with Windy, they all have an argument about giving Ted up then later Pahn later leaves to get Ted medicine, he later comes back with guards, Ted gives himself up for you all to escape after Pahn turns traitor. A whole lot more happens in that six minutes than that 30 minute long stretch of Trails of Cold Steel 2.
Nah, this ain't it bro. People do yourselves a favor and if you see any of this dude's videos, click the 3 dot button and click 'Don't recommend channel'.
FF7-9 were a fair length in their original state, but Squenix added a 3x speed modifier to the remasters because even they know people don't want to waste time on nonsense.
Seems you don't understand that persona is a blend of rpg and visual novel if you don't like visual novels maybe you should not play It. Also showing Ann to prove the game just has characters with silly teenage problems Is pretty weird lol. As if the 100 hours you spend on the game are just scenes of walking waking up or planning meetings
Fr i was literally gonna comment that persona is a visual novel lmao
Spoken like a true jobless person with no social life and friends outside videogames
Spoken like a person with no friends and social life outside videogames
@@MobikSaysStuff Spoken like a person with no friends and social life outside of RUclips.
@@MobikSaysStuff suure bro
I disagree. Games like Metaphor as I see it wouldn't hit as hard if they were more concise, taking time to build the world is very important. Slowly seeing your approval go from peasant to king is very satisfying, it makes it feel like a journey. When your support rating in Persona 5 hits 0, that moment has been built up for nearly 70 hours because you see your support rating every day and seeing that be destroyed only hits because of all the context.
Take the Trails series as an example. Nothing happens in Trails From Zero that has anything to do with Azure in terms of stakes, the game just ends rather anticlimactically, no crazy cliffhanger. But Azure wouldn't work without Zero because Zero sets up a lot of conflict and important plot beats that get followed up in Azure, you might say that these are two different games but I disagree, they're more like part 1 part 2 than just normal sequels. Azure is complete balls to the walls while Zero is slower and more world buildy yet both are important, I hate games that constantly throw you into action for no reason because they have to move the plot along, some quiet moments are necessary. I can't get through a COD or BF campaign without feeling burnt out because they feel exhausting to play with how much happens in a short period of time but I can comfortably put 100 hours in P5 because pacing is way slower and I can digest it.
And finally, the title is just wrong. You can't say something shouldn't exist when it clearly works for a lot of people. Overall, pretty good video even though I do disagree, keep it up! Always nice to support smaller creators
You make a fair point, especially with Trails. I don’t particularly like most of the series, but I know that people love the payoff that can only be experienced with a series that has this many interconnected games. I can’t fault the series for doing something you can’t really find elsewhere, but judging the games individually, they definitely are too slow for me. I did enjoy Daybreak, though!
Persona 5 did actually make me feel like "Wow I didn't have enough time"
90% of comments being about "too much story"
Meanwhile Etrian Odyssey Nexus have minimal story, attack animations capping at milliseconds long, turns being 10-15 seconds fast, cutscenes are maybe 40 seconds and still have the main game averaging 76 hours according to google
The Etrian Odyssey series is fantastic but Nexus is over bloated.
@@screwtokaiba screw the shrine ruins!!! To me, this problem is similar to MHGU.
@@radiorah768 There is a reason why people warn me from using Nexus as my entry point.
@@soratheorangejuicemascot5809 Its not even mainly Shrine faut - theres only 3 shrine you play in the main game. Its legit the fact that the game have 10+ main dungeons and almost double digits sub dungeons. Between Drawing Maps and exploring, those adds up even if theyre a miniaturized version
I actually LOVED the first shrine, and honestly the gimmick of 3 and 2 was really cool.
@@screwtokaiba my main problem with the shrines is that they all look the same. I rather crawl in Claret Hollows.
I do get where you’re coming from, but we also don’t live in a world where one glove will fit all sizes. Let’s look at movies since you brought it up. Movies are generally 1.5-3 hours long. A good movie will usually be able to introduce a world, characters, main conflict, villain, the various aspects of the hero’s journey, the finale, and the ending. It’s short enough to where people won’t generally get bored but can still offer enough thrills and emotion to get people invested. A good film maker can make it work, but it’s very rare that we get movies that can accomplish the aspects of a plot well with the time given. Some people need more time to tell their stories and develop characters. Just look at the many failed adaptations of books that people slam for cutting too many details. TV on the other hand is very slow and can be plodding at times but also allows for a potentially deeper exploration of characters and world building. TV can accomplish other goals like more complex plot lines and relationships due to the increased time afforded by the format. Many people end up extremely attached to these characters and enjoy spending as much time as they can with them. People who want different things can choose to either watch a movie or a TV show based on their mood or preferences.
There’s certainly a case to be made for games that don’t waste the player’s time, and I certainly agree with that. (Animal Crossing NH) I completely agree with what you said about Xenoblade 2’s fluff, as I hate when excessive animations soak up my time for no reason. But it also sounds more like you’re getting annoyed that you’re trying to complete all the RPGs ever made, and it’s becoming hard for you personally since those games are long and more keep coming out. I don’t think forcing games to bend to your personal standards is really fair criticism when RPGs still come in a variety of lengths and flavors nowadays, it’s just the ones you pick happen to be 100s of hours. There’s still smaller stuff coming out like Sea of Stars, Chained Echoes, Bug Fables, Mario & Luigi, DQ 3 HD, etc. So to get mad at the length of RPGs without mentioning the smaller games is just a self-made problem.
It’s like saying you’re upset that The Game of Thrones TV show was 8 seasons, because that’s just too long. Who would want to spend their time like that? They should have just made it into 3 movies like The Lord of the Rings so we could be done quicker and move on to the next thing! Or saying that Harry Potter should have only been 1 book and ended with Harry killing Voldemort, because it’s a waste of my time. Other people still enjoyed it, so it still has value outside of your personal tastes. Not everything is going to be interesting to someone on a personal level, but we have so much selection available now that it shouldn’t matter. Like you said with Metaphor and Persona, they’re bloated social simulators with neat combat systems and some people would rather just play the latter half. Well, good news! Shin Megami Tensei exists and most of them are extremely combat heavy with a minimal focus on the narrative. They made flavors of game to cater to different demographics, which allows them to reach a large variety of people. Now do I think that 5000 hours on FFXIV is insane? Yes, extremely. But the statistical likelihood that someone will become worth writing textbooks about is very low, so I say let the people play their funny little Catgirl RP simulator. They’re probably not going to make a difference in the world regardless, but at least they can spend time with their friends and family playing something they like. Life isn’t explicitly about min-maxing everything, it’s about making sure you’ve enjoyed how you’ve spent the time.
Great video, actually made me type out a comment!
A lot of this just really depends on the rpg, and it's intended audience. A person who likes the fast paced hack and slash combat of DMC might not like the slower, more thought out and strategic combat of a turn based rpg like bg3. A person who likes a more linear game that pushes a compelling story like the last of us might not enjoy a really open non hand holding rpg like Elden Ring. It really just all comes down to a persons personal preference.
Well for the hours it's not so much of Hours = Value rather its Hours x Quality = Value. A game like Spiderman 2 was praised heavily, and enjoyed by many despite it being a 30 hour game priced at 70 dollars. Well Assassins Creed Valhalla is a 60 -70 hour game for like 60 dollars, but people hate on it for being too long since the contents quality wasn't that great.
I enjoy a pretty large variety of games, but I generally find myself the most engaged and entertained in immersive rpgs whether that be skyrim/modded skyrim, or BG3, and I'm generally willing to dump 50-100 hours into repeated playthroughs when I get into it. Now is that done within a span of a weekend or a week? no It generally takes me a month or so since I juggle that with college and other things, but that doesn't stop me from getting that enjoyment, or feeling satisfied with my experience because if It did I wouldn't have been replaying these games every now and then over the past few years. Well I know there's plenty of others out here who feel the same as I do, just like how I know there are plenty of people who feel the same as you. Instead of saying one type of rpgs shouldn't exist, I think it would be better to argue why it's ok for rpgs to not have to be 50+ hours long since both sides of the stick should exist, since they both have their audiences.
Fair. I do feel the slog of any dialogue heavy sequence that lasts over 20 minutes. Reminds me of when MGS4 got criticized for an hour long cutscene and most of it being a movie but now people just accept 2-5 hours of cutscenes in a row with minimum gameplay. Padding with fetch quests and meaningless dialogue is just not good game design.
I see engagement tactics from X are bleeding to other parts of the internet.
I respectfully disagree with your opinion 🗣️🔥😭
I love how people who feel this way are always the ones who spend hundreds of hours if the game is multiplayer or if it is open world lol, otherwise they don't care enough to spend that many hours.
Dude knows he’s roasting himself…😅
I mean its true but he s right though 😂
It ain't himself he's roasting.
@ he’s roasting all of us, but he wouldn’t know so much about these games if he hadn’t also played them himself. He probably also, to a degree, enjoyed them or he wouldn’t passionately make a video about them. This is a group roast and he is clearly a part of it.
I just completed 130 hours of persona 5, and can honestly say it did not feel like a slog for me until the last 20 hours. I agree that they do repeat themselves way too much for filler, but I dont think it is fair to compare it to Mario RPG when Atlus is literally known for its story telling and character development, and Mario is a platformer that went a different genre for a couple games to widen their audience. Mario doesnt have to care about story, because it never had to, its not why people play that game. If I play an Atlus game, its because i look forward to that long story and the regular cutscene breaks. Drawn out jrpgs pull off story telling in ways that other genres just cant do. Nobody is going to say they got the same quality of story from Parasite Eve as with Xenoblade 2.
Well, that's not enough just give me a 10 hour tutorial. That's 10$. and I want to see the whole sleep cycle of my character too.
One year of in-game time will cost you $8760. Who needs a car when you can spend $5000+ on walking.
Remember when disk/cartridge space on games was limited? Those were good times.
The problem with gaming nowadays is that everything is possible, the ceiling is too high for anyone to reach so they don't even bother.
Games were better when they strove to reach that ceiling.
That's why you see so much bloat.
No one appreciates limitation in today's era. Kinda sad.
Creativity is the ability to reach the boundaries of ones limits@@soratheorangejuicemascot5809
Hard Facts
Dude, you're right af don't even listen to these people saying you're wrong, or (even worse!) don't listen to the ones trying to justify persona having a thousand hours
I've been thinking about this of late, and I think it's because where I'm at in life, but I find myself distancing from these massively epic 50+ hour long games that set out with the goal of being long for the sake of being long, and really enjoying games that have quality gameplay that is replayable and quick. For example, I have had no problems playing Hades for 100 hours, but playing metaphor for that long just seems like an impossible task.
Or, maybe JRPGs just don't appeal to you. It could perhaps be the case that not everything is a perfect fit for everyone.
He just mentioned Parasite Eve, Chrono Trigger and Ys origin lmao
@@VTorner True, probably woulda made sense to say long games rather than jrpgs.
Social links are not meant to be done in one in game week, some social links can only be done on a certain day, others require higher social stats, some social links unlock other social links, planning in-game days is not just deciding which characters you want to hang out with.
And the dungeon crawling part of the game is also important in this, you have to prepare for the Dungeons because you want to do the dungeon in one go so you have more time for social links and making your social stats higher
Sotn: 12 hours
Gow 3: 6 hours to finish
FF12: 80 hours 🥶
FF12 🤘🏾🤘🏾
I really enjoy the longer games when they are done correctly and supported through gameplay, though I also think it shouldn't take half a playthrough for something to "get good" lol
I can't even tell you how many times I went from "Dude, yeah, same!" to "Oh, he's being sarcastic" and back to "Hell yeah, me too!"
And yeah, you got me. I did indeed play Baldur's Gate 3 again right after I finished it. Gotta get that Dark Urge playthrough.
Why are you so angry for games you can just not play if you don't want to? 💀
Also you really are just the entire video just saying "games were better in my time"
If those 50+ hours of a game are pretty consistently good, then it doesn't matter to me. If it has an addictive gameplay loop or a genuinely interesting story, then I'd normally want even more of it. But that depends on every person. If you don't find the game interesting or engaging enough, then obviously you'd feel like those 50+ hours are a waste of time.
It sucks when you play a game for 100 hours and you realize at the end that the writing actually sucks and the ending is disappointing.
P5 is a great game.
It probably could have used an editor to remove redundant text though.
The Xenoblade games are way too big, cripplingly so.
Chrono Trigger is the greatest JRPG ever made, and it takes 15 - 20 hours to beat it.
Anywhere between 20 hours and 35 hours is the sweet spot. Between 35 hours and 45 hours is also tolerable, but this is the point at which it begins to sour.
I love persona 5 royal. But damn do I wish it was 50 hours shorter
See, this is where roblox games hit the mark. But instead of shoving in 50 hours of backstories, you get all 500 hours of length from just the grind!
I say let the market decide. If devs want to make a long game and players exist who want to buy it who are we to tell them no? I have no desire to play a game like minecraft but that doesn't mean I believe games like minecraft shouldn't exist. If some people want their slow paced drawn out stories let them have them while you can enjoy what you like.
This has been a problem a LONG time now, like since PS2/PS3/360 era.
I just threw the whole bathroom out with the turds and converted full time to action-adventure, Roguelites/Roguelikes, Fighting Games, and Music Games.
Ain't nobody got time for character development when you've got PLAYER DEVELOPMENT.
Ain't nobody got time to grind character levels when you can be grinding/labbing YOUR SKILLS AND RANKS.
Ain't nobody got time for unskippable FMV narrative when you're out here LIVING THE LORE.
Depends on where you are in life. As a kid, I loved it when games were long because my family was broke and if my parents bought me a game I had to make it last.
As an adult with responsibilities, if it's more than 20 hours, it had better be enthralling.
You summed up my entire video in one comment.
Skill issue, i work full time and can very reasonably beat these 80+ hour long epics often below that hour mark within a month. You have tiktok zoomer brain, go ruin a different genre by making them poorly paced 20 hour long shitfests trying to be marvel movies
@@TouhouTrashcan 👍
Metaphor was a good game, but had way too much story. The gameplay was really good in it and the story was mostly good, but there was just too much. You'd finish a 30 minute dungeon and then it's 2 hours of walking, talking to people and cutscenes with 0 combat. They could have told a just of good of a story if they reduced the cutscenes and dialogue in the game by at least 20% to 30%. Amazing RPG games like FF6 and Chrono Trigger had like a 10 minute long cutscene as the longest cutscene and still told an amazing story. Too much story is a massive issue in modern RPG games.
youd probably like the SMT games if overwhelming amounts of dialog doesnt interest you.
50 hour+ RPG? Fine. I can do one of those every two years. 50 hour+ JRPG? I will never finish that.
Dude … just don’t play it… I do like my +100 hours RPG’s …. Indeed when it last less than 50 hours I believe that it was lacking content wise…
i think it depends on the game because imo there has been some very long games that took 60+ hours that i enjoyed a lot and they did not feel like a drag to get through for how much fun i was having. infarct there are some shorter games i played that felt like it took much longer due to how tedious it felt.
but i definitely do agree that there are some games out there that go on way too long for its own good.
Oh yeah, shorter games can have plenty of padding as well. This isn't an issue exclusive to longer RPGs. I played that Live a Live remake last year and was enjoying it up until the final arc. Complete filler, and the game's only like 20 hours long.
@@RushHourWeekend yeah Live A Live i liked and the final chapter of that game i just got the people i wanted and just went straight to the boss to finish it.
@@RushHourWeekend what filler are you reffering to? I thought it was fairly concise.
The chapter that opens up after you finish the Middle Ages. There’s basically no story; just dungeon crawl, recruit characters, get everyone’s best weapons, and fight random battles until you’re ready to finish the chapter. It completely goes against the rigid structure of every prior chapter. I don’t much care for the random battles, either. I think Live a Live is an excellent game up until that last chapter.
Naw, I'm good with it. If I pay full price for a game, and I usually do for jrpgs, the longer the better lol games ain't getting any cheaper, so I definitely expect all the content I can get. You can always just run through the main story and finish most of them pretty quickly anyway, but the more optional side content and story building that I can get, the better. Especially for 70 dollars 😂 I beat Metaphor Refantazio in about 150 hours. Money well worth spent.
I mean.... depends on the game. I spent 200+ hours on each dark souls game. I enjoy getting so into a game i forget about the rest of the world for 50-300 hours
Man, what happened to replayability and RPGs nowadays surely is a crime. Every game with RPG elements apparently have an excuse to be 100 hours long. Concise experiences with inherent replay value? Nah, put cutscene and scripted as heck gameplay segments in that!
I’ve been experiencing this firsthand with the Ys X Nordics demo. It bombards you with constant cutscenes while only having occasional moments of gameplay. The towns felt bland with a lot of places having invisible walls. I understand having a prologue but there should always be a point where it immediately becomes apparent that the game is “letting you loose” but that never happened here. There was so much talking that the game doesn’t even introduce the first equipment shop to you until a little over 2 hours into the game. I felt like a child being strung along waiting for the game to let me go.
There is a strong focus on prioritizing world-building over a well-paced experience that balances gameplay and storytelling. I love what you said about “figuring things out as you go.” World-building in a game should be experienced through the player, driven by their curiosity and interaction with the world, rather than being directly imposed on them for long stretches at a time. This approach allows gameplay to take center stage while gradually delivering story, exposition, and plot development as you progress.
Ys X left a bad impression on me but I still want to give the other games a fair shot. Are there any Ys games that you recommend? I see you mentioned Ys Origins. I also noticed you’ve been enjoying Trails Through Daybreak which is cool to hear. As someone who's been somewhat intimidated by the Trails games, I’m very interested in picking that one up.
Ys games are my jam but there’s a catch for some of them. For the “all killer, no filler” games, you can’t do better than the Napishtim era: Ark of Napishtim, Oath in Felghana, and Origin. If any of these takes over 10 hours to beat, you’re doing something seriously wrong. There’s a little bit of dialogue but you can just blitz through it. Play Oath for the boss fights and challenge (and music), Origin for the variety (and music), and Napishtim if you’re craving more.
I’d also recommend Ys 1 and 2, though you need to be willing to give the bump combat a chance. If you can manage it, I don’t think there’s a faster-paced set of games Falcom’s ever made.
For the party-based games, Ys Seven unfortunately was going through some growing pains. You have to spam charge attacks constantly to build meter, you learn skills from equipment which means keeping your dinky shit equipped longer than you’d like, and the parry window is very small and requires you to press two buttons which I never got used to, so I’m not a huge fan. Celceta is awesome; I think it’s one of the more underrated entries. It’s also like 15 hours long, which is perfect.
Ys 8 and 9 are both great BUT I had to skip the cutscenes and sidequests. Ys 8 is bloated to the max, with way too much yippity yapping for the first half, and you’ve unfortunately gotta do the sidequests to get the true ending. But I’ve played that game 4 times and love it; just gotta skip every cutscene. Ys 9 is pretty much the same deal.
Daybreak is the only Trails game I enjoyed. Van is a more interesting protagonist to me than Lloyd and Rean, probably because he’s not a kid. And I love the hybrid real-time/turn-based combat system. And don’t tell anyone, but I even liked some of the sidequests. But man, it also has parts where it feels like you’re spending 3 hours just running around town talking to people, but that’s Trails for ya.
@@RushHourWeekend Thanks, I really appreciate the detailed response! This told me exactly everything I needed to know. I’ll check those out for sure
im a slow player in general and in persona id spend a lot of time in the velvet room and also with side quests and im just indecisive so fusion as a mechanic is gonna take me forever
Eventually i got tired. i have like 150 hours in p5r after shido and stopped
i finished portable just before p3r came out and im at the end of p3r now but it took months and several breaks because it was easy to get tired
I think persona as a formula just is so easy to feel burnt out on. Everything takes forever. Playing them back to back doesnt help
Ive been playing mother 3 recently after all these long atlus games and its pacing feels so perfect. Chapter 1-5 switch perspectives around, theyre each about 1-2 hours long and chapter 6 is just a cutscene. Chapter 7 is a big section of gameplay and story sequences thats tightly paced, where you travel to several new unique areas. Chapter 8 is where i am now. Its the endgame and i have about 20 hours on my file.
25ish hours at the end feels unbelievable lol.
Something else i appreciate is that a lot of the cutscenes speak volumes without a word, just letting the animation do the talking since Lucas is silent for a lot of the game. Its really powerful and even though hes silent, you can really feel his emotions
The games I played the most(I think) were Nioh2-800h and Elden ring at 400h. EVERYTHING from making alt builds to NG+ to co-oping with buddies and pvp.
I've got a ton of playtime in Nioh 2 as well, but that length doesn't come from completing all the story stages, which doesn't take long. And that's kind of the point: the replay value keeps me hooked longer than a bloated campaign will.
Nah. I want my Jrpgs long. The longer the better. Metaphor is my fave game, and The Persona series is my fave game series and i always want them long. They are basically Visual Novels, which I love.
A lot of games are riciculusly long and aren't constantly fun because of filler content and some activities in some games take way longer than it should to stay fun, that much is true. There is a lot of merit in these consensed experiences witch get mostly reed of filler. Some of these games like Ys origin and kid icarus uprising are among my favorites.
HOWEVER
When it come to games with a heavy focus on the story, what's filler and what isn't is not easy to differentiate, not to mention the subjective POV of different players witch can lead to very different opinions in that matters. You don't find meaning with the many character interactions in P5 but some people do.
Now yes, a lot of interactions are not essential to the plot but if every f*cking line of dialogue did, it would just make the story too artificial and the world not believable. It's a group a teenagers in modern days, of course they're gonna have a ton of unmeaningful interactions just like IRL.
And yes, i know these characters aren't real, but if we can be emotional to the point of crying other fictionnal stories, then it's pretty safe to say that a large portion of IRL logic apply to fiction too.
I'm not saying P5 doesn't have pacing issues or writting issues in general, in fact i don't think the story of P5 is amazing but it's still a good time.
Games like Trails, Fate/stay night (and VN in general), lower budget gacha games like PGR, arknights, path to nowhere etc... have plenty of time where the story slows down for more down to earth characters with no groundbreaking stakes aside from maybe character insecurities. Like i said in your "slow burn excuse" video, if you can't get the appeal of that it's on you.
Or maybe it's the execution of the slow down moments that you think is lacking but if that's the case you've done a poor job at explaining why across your 2 videos.
NO really, i feel like you're in an hamster wheel at this point and you're making another video about it ?.
You also said that quality of quantity is know by everyone but the reality is that in the writting department, there 2 sides of the same coin. And no, just because you can make a good story in a 20h long game doesn't mean that no game should not make it longer.
Combine your inhability to see the point of down to earth character interaction ( because YES, even the most cliché, cringe, overly long, """boring""" character interaction can still help the player have a better understanding of character relationships or make them progress and therefore have meaning ) with your sarcastic attitude and of course people gonna get mad at you.
( exemple at 3:54 like seriously "have a 20H long dongeon crawler for people who enjoy video games and a 500H visual novel" for the others : it's insulting. Visual novels are in the video game category whether you like it or not )
Also 7:47 "games are not about interacting with it, they're about watching cutscenes" Dude seriously...
If you have a good understanding of what makes a game fun to you and if you know what makes you have a bad time, then for the love of god do your research before buying a game !
Because again, you really give me the impression that you can't understand different games appeal to different audiences despite having plenty of comments saying that in your "slow burn excuse" video yet you still don't get it.
Medias are like toolboxes. A book just have text and images in it but video games on the other hand have the largest toolset and it's up to the video game creator to decide what tool they'll use and how much. If they choose to not use gameplay tool all that often, it's their choice and there's nothing wrong with that unlike what you seem to believe.
About the grinding and the lack of QOL additions, is it really a deal breaker ? In Xenoblade 2, not to me.
About the absurd handholding i actualy agree.
And yes, those who defend their favorites games by saying "it's become good after 20H" do a poor job at making other play these games.
I've already said a lot in your "slow burn excuse" video so i'm not gonna repeat myself more than that.
Bottom line is slow pacing isn't always bad pacing, espacially in the writting department.
every game should be as long as the trails games 11+game series with 100+ hours to beat each one
seems like skill issue, i have a full-time job, i attend to college and beat persona 5 royal in less than a month with 185h on record
Maybe jrpgs just aren’t for you?
100% agree with the video. I quit Persona 5 after 70+ hours because I couldn’t take it any more.
Agreed. I tend to play short games.
you can sum this up to external vs internal gratification. If I take it that you enjoy games like shmups enough to put dozens of hours into them I assume you're more on the internal side of the spectrum. A lot of the critiques you posit are things people like. People love to see big areas, big numbers and level up screens. They aren't arbitrary, they just aren't really for you since you probably highly prioritize personal achievement, skill development, pattern recognition etc.
if you want to complete even the longest of long RPG within 50 hours, go for it man. There's plenty tools like cheatengines that allow you to speed up the engine 2x,4x. But to attempt ''theres no reason an rpg should be longer than 50 hours'' is straight asylum thinking man.
Picked up the roguelike Elin. 50 Hours is barely enough time to engage with the full tutorial so you are familiar with all the game systems..........
I mean, not never, but it shouldn't be the standard. I feel the same with movie runtimes. Movies generally feel better when they are 90 minutes and don't hang too much on the resolution, but it still depends on how much of something is filler versus meaningful content.
For me time in a game doesn't really matter. If it's fun for most of my playthrough, i'll finish it, if it's meh i'll drop it.
If you are truly liking a JRPG, then you'll try to do 80% ~ 100%.
If you think the game is good, but don't want to do everything, then you'll do 60% ~79% or just beat the game without the side quests.
And then there are the persona games in which not doing 80% ~ 100% is a waste. You'll probably drop, but if you beat it, then after that you'll be burnt out of games for a while.
It almost happened to me after playing Metaphor and P3R consecutively.
Now i'm continuing the trails series. It's the best series to just shut your mind and enjoy the vibes, until you get to the final boss, that is.
I'm seeing that $1 = 1 hour thing more and more on Steam reviews, and it just makes me feel like I should quit gaming altogether. I'm never getting another tightly designed Rayman game like Origins or Legends, Doom Eternal had no buisness being 12 hours, I will never play Red Dead 2 a second time. I don't even take issue with long games, I really enjoyed the 100+ hours I spent with DQ11, but so few games justify their length. I was desperately skipping dialogue by the end of Persona 5 because the characters were just repeating themselves, saying absolutely nothing of value just to pad the runtime. And of course the comments here are full of the same old shite "maybe jrpgs aren't for you??????". Chrono Trigger was 50+ hours was it? FFVII took months to beat, did it?
Please invite me over to your house when Persona 6 comes out, I want to sit and watch your face when the quirky teenagers are calling you at the end of the day to remind you of everything you just achieved in the dungeon 15 minutes ago. And you best be smiling, and don't you fucking dare hit that X button.
Dude really thinks he is some pofound thinker
You cooked bro, don't let the anime profile pictures in the comments ( wait I'm one as well ) tell you otherwise. Persona heads are a special kind of deranged people.
OK we get it your not an rpg guy. And you probably don't like visual novels either,we all have genres we don't like.
I don't like shooters, or Rouge like that with some exceptions like Doom eternal, Some Resident evil games, Hades,one step from eden and etc.
So maybe you'll like crosscode a 2d action rpg that's as short or long as you want It too be 15-30 for main story.and the main character has a speech impediment due to a bug and can only speak in limited phrases and body language.some examples hi,bye,sorry,thanks,why,how,Lea, HUGS and "Nods head".
And if that's too much for you Undertale or deltarune is only 1-3 hours long man.
First world problems.
Im pretty sure next video will mention the Trails games 🤣
Bro does NOT appreciate Dragon Quest/Warrior 7 on the PS1!
Never let people like you cook again. Go enjoy your fortnite.
fortnite is actual fun, yeah.
idk about this one bro......
Heavy disagree. I think the main issue is with jrpgs and games in general padding time out a lot with pointless or uninteresting bullshit. a 100 hour game is fine and can be great as long as it's filled with interesting story, characters, mechanics, levels throughout it.
I guess you should stop to exist!
It's funny cause you mentioned only japanese games. Ahahahahaha
That's how they are, anime has fillers, manga can take awhile from one edition to another etc.
Good work on the video, seems people are getting mad and leaving comments, which is good for engagement. I agree to a certain extent with your points, i value good character development and wouldn't mind if the characters are saying meaningful stuff, but most of the time is just filler boring conversation. With P5R, for example, after awhile i'd just zone out and fast foward if the dialogue didn't have any voice acting.
is this video inspired by GDELB?
I don’t know what that is, so I’m gonna have to say no.
@@RushHourWeekend its your new favorite youtube series by the sounds of it, hope you find the time
I get the feeling that you would be better off being less salty about modern AAA games and try out some of the Indie games on the market. Then if thoes aren't your jam, just go back to retro gaming. It's not a sin to do so.
Think other people are missing the points amongst your sarcasm.
These games do have a bunch of time wasters, there could be way more QoL and denser better writing.
The length of the experience isnt neccasarily the problem, its how much of that length is wasted time.
nah it's fun to have hours of gameplay
That’s persona for you, a game heavily based on visual story aspects, if you want fun play more jrpgs
do you like cyberpunk?
This video is way too short and concise. At 15 min. it's far too easy to watch the whole thing and understand the points being discussed. I think this video should be AT LEAST 5 hours long. This way I am given the chance to be distracted by my phone or anything else.
I prefer RPG’s of 40h and more
Thats crazy that when people discuss final fantasy tactics they talk about a character in final fantasy tactics
Oh god, I love your video. It's great to speak a fact about this industry (especially JRPG's game). Time is the most important thing in life.....
I see youtube is now recommending me utter dogshit. What does that say about my recent choices
I 100% AGREE. when you get beyond that 50 hour mark it becomes obvious when going through the scenario that entire missions or sections of the story are just nothing more than filler. FFVIIR is so egregious with this... a 5 hour segment in the original becomes 45 with nearly the exact same amount of information given except at a snail's pace. I can appreciate Nier Automata removing much of the problems with replaying sections of the game with literally nothing new happening in the previous games(looking at you, the like two times I had to replay act iI of NieR replicant after route B, still think it's amazing regardless)
Oh yeah, 7 Remake and Rebirth are way too damn long. I love the combat in Rebirth, but you could slash that game in half and make it twice as good.
As for Nier, that’s one of those games where I like watching the cutscenes on RUclips more than relaying the game. Yoko Taro’s games are too repetitive for my taste.
Cry as much as you like, he's right. Persona 4 is my favorite video game story of all time, yet I think that 40 out of 90 hours of it are waste of time.
Cherry picking much? Plenty of RPGs needed countless time during the PS1 era. See BOF3 or Suikoden 2.
I mean....your channel's name is Rush hour...
seems like u gotta find another hobby boomer, gaming aint for you lmao
Hello mainstreamity mainstream object. Do you have anything to give an advice to be like a mainstreamity person like you?
@@soratheorangejuicemascot5809 bruh go sit in a corner nobody cares xD
I get you dude. I am playing royal right now and dahm it its amazing but so dahm looong
I prefer games that are longer short games I tend to always want more so I disagree with this the longer a game the better you have mmos that or mobas that can have thousnds of hours.. as soon as I get to an end of a fantastic RPG and see was like only 20 hrs that pisses me off both on the fact it could have been so much more added to the game like FF6 amazing game but go load up and play its T-edition it adds so much more story more to do and when you finish you can load up ex patch and fight superbosses.
Game padding especially in jrpgs have always been an annoying part of the games. I'd rather have 20-30 hours of solid gameplay and character development than 50+ hours of slogging through meaningless and often cringy dialogues and grinding. Only little kids and unemployed folks will disagree because they have a lot more time on their hands than the rest of us.
To be fair to BG3, the length and pace of the combat there kind of comes with the territory of the genre mechanics: that just kind of is what it's like to play a 5e campaign, other than the speed of the attack animations (which usually aren't really longer than rolling a die). Something like Neverwinter Nights is a pretty similar experience. That being said having played a good chunk of Act I so far the story/companions do feel pretty thin and aimless. I enjoy each individual combat scenario and quest and think it's a good distillation of a 5e session with a creative DM, but it does start to feel pretty unfocused.
Wayyyy too much sarcasm. At least change your voice.
I almost dont even need to watch this. Games over 20+ hours for one playthrough is absolutely goddamn excessive.
Its weird. I spent a massive amount of time on MHGU and MH4U but I really really cant stand spending time with the tedious sidequest of NieR Automata for some reason.
I'm constantly saying this. Persona 5 and The Legend of Heroes Trails games might have some of the best combat in the modern day RPG, but the padding is absolutely absurd. There's like 80 The Legend of Heroes Trails games and every single one of them have near identical gameplay with only slight variations between each of them as a one time gimmick per game. Each of these games though take atleast 60-80 hours to complete and do a majority of the side quests(excluding the secret side quests where you need to talk to everyone after every new instance to be able to find.) The Legend of Heroes games have it so that the dialogue to all the NPCs in the game that you can speak to changes after every new instance of an event, so if you really want to waste your time you can, but it really adds nothing to the game.
Now while Parasite Eve and Symphony of the Night are great examples, some more modern examples are the Castlevania Dominus Collection and dthe Suikoden 1 and 2 Collection that have or are coming out. The fact that most people's most anticipated releases are ports and remasters in the modern day just shows how much gaming has gone to crap.
But on Suikoden 1, I have uploaded a playthrough where I finish the game with all 108 stars in under nine hours, so despite the game being less than 10 hours to complete, you've got more than 108 characters throughout the storyline. Now most of these characters are just a one and done deal and a lot of them are just like, sure I'll join, and that's it, but most of them have integral parts to the games storyline in which they then join. Infact. In the very first hour of Suikoden, you meet with Barbarosa, your commanding officer, have dinner with Tio before being sent off, meet Futch, who takes you to an island where you go through a dungeon and fight the first boss, meet Leknaat and her apprentice and are told the prophecy of your character as one of the stars of destiny, go back to Gregminster, get sent to another town from Commander Kraze a town which the mayor isn't paying taxes and blames it on bandits, which you go and defeat but only after seeing Ted destroy the giant queen ant thing with the Soul Eater, so the second boss, fight the bandit leaders as the third boss, go back to provide the taxes back to the mayor, the officer who was sent with you informs of the rune Ted used to destroy the queen ant, Ted comes back wounded and you have to leave him for dead to escape after being betrayed by Pahn, Viktor helps you escape Gregminster and meet with Odessa of the liberation army and you're then requested to rescue the bandits who were strung up on poles.
All that in the span of a single hour. No filler, no bs, everything straight to the point and you've got a lot of great character development without just so much bloated unnecessary dialogue shoved down your throat like in the Trails games, the Trails games which an hour in you'll likely on finish the games tutorial dungeon. The amount of padding in modern games is really quiite ridiculous.
I’m not sure how many people share this opinion, but I vastly prefer Suikoden 1 to 2 precisely because it’s a shorter game. For me, a casual playthrough takes around 15 hours, and I’m completely satisfied with its pacing. Suikoden 2 takes a few hours to really get rolling, and I heard the PS2 entries are real slogs.
@@RushHourWeekend I agree. The second game has worse pacing, takes a bit to get started but not only that, the pacing just goes to sh** after Luca Blight gets killed. The Neclord section where you have the chance to just completely escape the country for a bad ending especially.
I haven't completed any of the PS2 games so I guess I could agree, but I have played 3, 4, and 5. 4 I didn't complete only because it wasn't very good and rushed to the end with almost no characters and after you hit the point of no return there's no exiting the last dungeon. You can go back to the boat to do stuff, but my max weapon upgrade was level 5 and I couldn't defeat the final boss no matter how many attempts.
Suikoden 3, I feel like is the best of them, but I decided to put the game down after I cleared all three of main chapters for each character and got to where I had castle. At some point I then put the game down and when I came back I restarted my character. Got to the same point, same thing happened again, and one more time. Well, now I don't restart completely when I come back to a game but that doesn't help with Suikoden 3 where I no longer have a save data and I just can't even play through all the main chapters to get to the end anymore. I've just completely ruined any experience I might have on the game.
Then Suikoden 5. I played the first 10 hours and I just couldn't play anymore. Apparently it gets good after that, but I'm not one to believe people who say it gets good in x hours. I even decided to pick Final Fantasy 13 up after 16 hours because of this claim. And to answer, no, Final Fantasy 13 doesn't get good after 16 hours like everyone who tries to defend that garbage claims.
I haven't played all the Trails games yet, but of the ones I played from Zero to CS3, none of them took me more than 50 hours to beat. Zero only took me about 35 hours to beat actually.
@@Merk1387 I guess it didn't save my reply because I included a link in the video. It really depends on what difficulty you play it on I guess. I can tell you that I probably wouldn't have played through any of them if I played through them on normal difficulty though with just how much bloat is in the story because the games really would have been 99.9% story and walking around then. I've completed all of the games from the very start on nightmare or whatever the games highest difficulty.
I think Trails of Cold Steel 2 has an additional chapter after Finale, but a screenshot of my save of the end of the finale chapter included 69 hours and all of my characters on nightmare at level 130. I RUclips'd Trails of Cold Steel 2 Finale and the first video that came up was a hard difficulty playthrough ending at the exact same level. Anyways, same level, I almost had an additional 20 hours extra, so the time difference would have been the bosses higher stats or for whatever reason there was a 20 hour difference, but it definitely wasn't level grinding which is why I'm pointing out the same level. Oh, I did get all S ranks in the snowboarding, so that likely took some of that time as well.
But if you watch that final video though, it's 36 minutes from the final battle to the end of the game. That's 36 minutes and skimming through looks like 30 minutes of it is actual dialogue. Knowing what has happened there's not a lot. Crow dies, which I actually think he's not dead because where I quit on ToCS3 at the end of the chapter 1 or 2, I think that was him. Which coincidentally isn't the first time someone came back to life since right after that, Rean's father comes back to life, because yeah, it was just a replacement character that looked like him was killed. Compare that 30 minutes of almost nothing going on, to the whole string of events when getting back to Gregminster with Kanaan and Ted on Suikoden. It takes six minutes for all those events to take place. Kanaan takes Ted, the rest of the party finishes dinner, after dinner everyone is wondering where Ted is at and he's wounded at the entrance of the home with a magic wound, Ted tells everyone about what happened in a flashback with Windy, they all have an argument about giving Ted up then later Pahn later leaves to get Ted medicine, he later comes back with guards, Ted gives himself up for you all to escape after Pahn turns traitor. A whole lot more happens in that six minutes than that 30 minute long stretch of Trails of Cold Steel 2.
RPG's only exist because people are trash at COD.
based take fuck the haters
Nah, this ain't it bro. People do yourselves a favor and if you see any of this dude's videos, click the 3 dot button and click 'Don't recommend channel'.
You need to quit making videos on RUclips
FF7-9 were a fair length in their original state, but Squenix added a 3x speed modifier to the remasters because even they know people don't want to waste time on nonsense.
Fast-forward features are a godsend. I think those Trails in the Sky games are borderline unplayable without fast-forward toggles.
Bro does NOT appreciate Dragon Quest/Warrior 7 on the PS1!