Hasan Fan Debates Steven Crowder Using Hasan's Arguments..............................
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
- A Hasan fan journalist takes on Steven Crowder during his Change My Mind segment... Destiny reacts and explains how to push back against Crowder's arguments.
Date: 30 Mar, 2022
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00:00 Teaser / Intro
00:49 Steven Crowder change my mind
05:39 Establishing early rapport by touching clothes?
12:41 Should we use edge cases?
19:27 The breakdown in this debate...
26:05 He's a Hasan simp, might be using Hasan's arguments
31:49 Using essentialist argument
#Destiny
Steven Crowder Wins Over A Socialist. ►ruclips.net/video/LLmrdFL4kco/видео.html
The Surprise Crowder-Seder Debate ►ruclips.net/video/YgYoWpAxFcQ/видео.html
So stupid that when people lose arguments they just say "youre mad" or attack your childhood, jesus just take the L and move on it looks so much better
I get that Steven crowder is big red bad and all but this is funny to see morons attempt to outsmart a red man by simply calling him incorrect lol.
You thought we wouldn't notice how you made the last few videos in same colour? Can't wait for the manifesto
Never underestimate your opponent.
"why would you think you can beat right wing Steven Crowder with left-wing Steven Crowder" is an actual admission that the right wing has more correct arguments than the left wing.
This dude didn't come to debate. He came to try and slam dunk Crowder with a smirk of confidence that somehow never faded after being dominated. Kinda scary when a journalist doesn't know when he's wrong or willing to analyze his own views and opinions.
You forgot to use air quotes around the word journalist.
This is what's produced when you're protected by zero tolerance. That smirk would have been corrected in adolescence in normal countries.
@@PeteV80 lmao ok
Tbf thats really the only way to debate crowder. Dudes trying to dunk, or do EPIC OWNAGE instead of actual debates just attract each other. Crowders too much of a coward to actually debate someone like Destiny or Sam Sedar, so this all you're gonna get.
@@gardenerzh0ngbase173 I think Destiny and Crowder would agree on a lot
"we shouldnt be taking sports seriously" its like a billion dollar industry that peoples lives and their families depend on. This guy has lost so hard
“We should just magically eliminate the demand for sport”
What a great solution Montasilly.
There are many industries that people's lives and families depend on. That isn't necessarily relevant to whether or not it should exist
Even if I can agree since I'll rather play a sport than watch one. I respect those that bust their ass mastering a sport. Some of these mooks that seem to be clearly anti-sports show they hands too soon. Thinking they're helping people when really they need to shut up and listen.
@@LucasDimoveo Maybe but that is a compelling reason why it should remain. Many people, and cities, involved in sports do benefit economically from it's existence. Much like tourism having a strong economic reason for existing so do sports.
Removing sports is no different than looking for excuses to remove video games, movies, tv shows, or really anything that's for entertainment purposes. Anybody can take something "too seriously", that doesn't mean it needs to be removed.
@@LucasDimoveo what is relevant to whether an industry “should” exist? I think should is not the right term here as it implies that industries must have a moral justification for existing or something. The only thing relevant to whether or not an industry does exist is the existence or lack of a demand for that industry.
This isn’t really a debate. Biological men have unfair advantages over biological women. Even if you had a 10,000 IQ and were the best debater on earth you’d still lose everytime trying to debate that point.
Exactly I’m really glad I didn’t waste my money on college
But have you considered... Muh feelings?
@@ArmoredZephyr nah don't care bout those feelings
@@chadikhr7258
Welp, there goes every argument I had. Guess it's time to whip out the -ists and -isms.
Biological men have advantages over biological men. Like Michael Phelps webbed hands, or how being over 5 foot is detrimental to being a gymnist. Hell not even all men produce the same amount of testosterone. Genetic advantages are part of the sport. Why specifically signal out transwomen when we allow 7 foot tall super humans to compete?
Damn Crowder did a good job nailing this dude down for being a disingenuous weasel.
Yes bc Crowder is famous for NOT being a disingenuous weasel. Why is the so called “left” have crowders meat in their mouth
he wasn't disingenuous. he was a straight up liar.
Crowder has done that many times. Including the people that have threatened him namely the turd that threatened him and his crew with bombs.
@@1911GreaterThanALL read: takes one to know one
@@nostalgia_junkie who did crowder threaten?
That debate was so painful to watch I am anti-free speech now. No one should be allowed to speak ever again.
H-
Lol
I would vote for you, even though i am not american.
He lost me so hard when he said about intersex-people: *"how do you even proove that they're intersex?"*
Has this super-informed dipshit ever heard of chromosomes? The thing that _makes_ these people intersex?
You can do a blood-test to check on those, just saying...
Would you consider a monarchy as new from of government? It would certainly limit the speech of degenerates :)
Calling Hasan the left wing Crowder is giving him too much credit, honestly
I agree, actually. I’ve come around to seeing Hasan as even worse than a left-wing equivalent to conservatives like Crowder or Ben Shapiro. He somehow has even less of a solid foundation for any of his beliefs or positions but is socially accepted and protected by-and-large. He’s also the most comedically massive hypocrite I’ve seen in a minute.
I think hasan may be more bigoted than crowder... can't stand him
@@Fizzbuzzbizzfuzz2 um how
@@LUIOFFICIALBEATS He has a genuine hatred for people who don't agree with him, including white people and republicans. Very little humanity. Crowder is just conservative and political correctness triggers him, I've never seen anything approaching hate coming from him. For the record I do not like crowder.
@@Fizzbuzzbizzfuzz2 Hasan is also infinitely dumber and a con artist that doesn't have ANY principles whatsoever.
To Crowders credit, you cant let someone like this get away on deliberately lying about medical statistics, let alone statistics in general. I dont think it helped him to hold on ot for so long, but I get it.
Letting it go isn't exactly how you break something down and move forward from it. The other guy was pushing so hard to move on from his failed points I'd say Crowder pusbing the guy to choose a damn hill is called for.
ESPECIALLY because he’s a journalist.
leftist beta males are triggered
92% of accidents are caused by Sober people.
@@xXJLNINJAXx Your not there to break down the other persons barriers, your there to shit on the talking points these people try to use to poison the minds of young adults just getting into politics. The more crowder disintegrates the dude that lied, the higher the chance that point will be hammered into the heads of people that dont know enough about the topic. Its important to focus on facts, its important to focus on correctly using papers, and its important to destroy an argument made in bad faith.
In defense of Crowder here, Crowder knew that this guy had no intention of having a conversation and him just demolishing this guy with no intent of moving the conversation forward is justified to an extent
Yup, I totally agree. I mean...if we could tell through the camera that this dude came in hot, then I'm guessing Steven could pick up on the tension immediately. Due to that he probably had very limited patience for the guy.
Agreed
Yea i dont really care for crowder, but this case i was more on his side.
When the other guy said "what is your definition of the term biological female" i knew this was a lost soul wondering the ether.
Its an EXTREMELY simple question to define. What was written on your birth certificate? Done.
Asking anything past that is psychopathic and intentionally disingenuous... Or even worse. Dangerously ignorant.
Someone bring a laptop with League installed to a Change My Mind event so Destiny can debate Crowder.
Actually lol-ed at this
When there’s no wifi in the area 😱😱
But you bring the 1 mile ethernet coord 😎😎
Ayy, but make sure the account logged in is plat one max. Can't let Destiny taste Diamond
Give him a hoverboard so he can get there without touching grass.
You’d need a hazmat suite to avoid the cancer
A comment from the subreddit said it well:
This is actually a really incredible, live, real life example of what happens when lefties excise all contentious actors from their spaces, spend their time in-fighting, purity testing each other, and then think they can come at conservatives who view it as their responsibility to wrestle and contend with ideas from the left they don't agree with, and have a far more "streamlined" set of arguments because their premises remain consistent...
Even with imperfect arguments, Crowder dismantled this guy. After the first 2 min when his attempt at appealing to authority failed because he didn't understand the source, or look for counter-sources first before trying to cite it, he went into "emotional protection" mode, refused to agree in good faith that the primary goal of sport is the competition of winning, and then his brain turned off completely.
Bingo
Perfect summary
It's also important to emphasize how important media training is. I think everyone knows at least one exceptional individual that has a hard time either explaining his points or just expressing them in an interesting manner. I think Crowder is a piece of shit, but you can't deny he has better showmanship than college students, which btw, I don't expect or blame them for not having proper eloquence, they're young.
Edit: ok, just to make myself clear, this was more of a blanket statement as Crowder typocally interviews college students in these segments. All the people below have valid statements. I apologize if I caused any confusion pertaining to this one video.
Yep
To be fair, there's almost no good arguments to be made that trans should compete with biological women so he wasn't gonna get anywhere anyways.
It was so satisfying to watch. What a c*nt
Crowder had no reason to try and move forward with the debate. This is a journalist, who's job is to use reliable sources to provide media to the people. He not only took a study that you could just say he misread or didn't fully understand, but a study that completely contradicts his point and agrees 100% with Crowder and then tried to play it off as a study that fortified his argument. Then after that he tried to salvage what little ego he could and tried to make up some arbitrary BS about how sports isn't about winning. This guy wasn't going into debate, he went in after googling 2-3 articles on intersex people expecting to school Crowder, I think he should be 100% chastised for that, especially since he is a journalist.
Honestly, now seeing how Destiny keeps nit-picking things on this video all the time "Oh using this person music" "Oh showing people with signs when talking about bad people who showed up" "Oh he keeps pausing and editing" "The trans-male argument which Crowder went through in another video and clearly is a useless argument", and also when the guy lied about statistics, of course Crowder would get mad at it, lying about this things in a discussion is just counter productive, unfair, extremely dishonest and can ruin an entire debate. So when analyzing a Crowder video just calm down man, you act like Crowder punched your grandma or something. Watching this video just made me agree with Crowder
Well from this video, he's clearly on Crowders side but remember this is a RUclips reaction video.
I feel what you said man I agree
but I think he was agreeing with Steven indirectly if you hear some Destinys talking points
He’s literally analyzing it to explain how the person arguing crowder is dumb as hell. His video is literally pro crowder, good for you understanding and shit.
@@Hashquatch Except it's not and Destiny kept talking himself up about how he had two points that could easily counter Crowder and had a goose egg. Being negative about the other guy does not mean he is positive about the first. Maybe work on those comprehension and critical thought skills there, chief.
Idunno, I’m a conservative and I thought Destiny did a really good job of listening to both sides and being level headed when talking about these topics. This isn’t the first video I’ve seen of his and I think he does a good job bringing up political conversations with his audience. Maybe he was a bit too nit-picky in the beginning about audio and editing but overall the content of his video (in my opinion) were good. Just to let you know, I don’t agree with Destiny on all points but I like how he approaches political conversations.
You should of named this “Steven watches Steven debate Steven”
@Andrew that’s much better
two and a half Stevens!
In terms of debating skills, I'd say Steven > Steven > Steven
@@Seethi_C Nah it's Steven > Steven > Steve
My mind just broke. Too many Stevens.
0:19 Crucifying this guy _is_ moving the conversation forward. Most of the people advancing these kinds of arguments are doing so in bad faith. This isn't about peoples' feelings or even their social status, this is about what is true and what isn't. Stop defending liars.
Great take. Nonthing wrong with a little lemon in the wound. Partly the reason reality has gotten so silly is b/c of certain civilities & niceties. Sometimes you need to feel that pain to change.
you arent stupid anon your smart anon
@@gavinfreenone6626 We're all stupid anons. That's kind of the point of my name. On 4chan, they have a less kind term for it, but I still think it appropriate. What matters isn't the anon, but the idea. If the _idea_ is stupid, then, well, whoever posted it deserves the appropriate ridicule in response. If it's smart though, then something valuable can be taken from that. Ideas matter, anons who post them don't.
You're the first person in a while that I've talked to who has actually grasped this, I think.
I agree. There are plenty of Crowder debate me whatevers where he doesn't crucify opponents. The difference is those opponents were at least somewhat intellectually honest
@@stupidanon5941 "On 4chan" bruh, mask off.
I can't believe this guy made the point "sports should be about fun and not winning"
I feel gayer having listened to it
Destiny vs Crowder would actually be productive. This dude vs Crowder was just an embarrassment for himself.
He was trying hard tho with very little anything.
“We shouldn’t be taking sports so seriously”.
Ah, yes. We should tell trans women and cis women alike to just stop taking it so seriously.
And start taking e-sports more seriously
@@WHYUNODYLAN gamers are the most oppressed demographic >:C
Women's sports is not really serious it's just a bit of fun with the lasses
@@roarbertbearatheon8565 just relax 4Head
@@WHYUNODYLAN Men (and trans-women i.e. biological males) are better at E-Sports as well. Faster reaction times, higher visuospatial IQ, more stress tolerance, not to mention a hormonal system geared for competition.
Anything that has to do with competition, physical or mental, will likely be male-dominated unless we reach an age of transhumanism lol.
Imagine Hasan meeting Crowder.
*shudders*
I have an image of the Timmy vs Jimmy fight from south park. But with Hasan and Crowders heads superimposed on the screen.
Its over for the left honestly. God mfers suck so much. I wish there were more destinys
The worst conversation in history
They would disagree for the cameras but be bros backstage. They're both grifters just grifting on opposite ends
The twitch multiverse, Hasan: No Way Home.
The journalist literally used 'the real treasure is the friends we made along the way' as an argument.
It's a good argument , if you're the main character of a harem anime trying to save the world from an alien menace.
A Naruto speciality
When you get a guy like this who's just coming in to try to nail you with recycled gotchas and not to actually debate your point, destroying their argument and not getting lost in the weeds is best
Absolutely. The guy came in absolutely bad faith, Crowder was right to corner him on his dishonesty especially when he went off on social media.
Yea, hopefully Crowder will be good faith one day!
Imagine watching Hasan as your news source. That’s like studying astrology to better understand physics and astronomy.
I'd say it's more like eating a bowl of Lucky Charms qualifying you to correct an astrophysicist.
.....says the Destiny viewer lmao
@@vorbo01 what does Destiny have anything to to with this comment, I'm confused.
@@ghostface490 ......are you daft?
@@vorbo01 uh no, but please enlighten me.
the Rolling Stone guy destroyed the argument that Crowder can only out debate college students, good job!!
😂😂😂😂
Lol I didn't even think of that. That's hilarious.
It's weird people say this because I have watched every episode of Change My Mind. The guy has possibly debated more adults than college students. But it's important to debate these students because they are basically being brainwashed by authority figures with zero clue of what they speak.
I mean, people act like colleges only have "teenagers". There are plenty of people in their mid to late 20s at universities, not to mention all the staff. You would think a university would be one of the best public places to find people to have a debate with, no?
@@JR-wf5kg my personal position is that the Change My Mind format is inherently shady regardless of age. You have one person who is clearly in the drivers seat of the whole conversation. And you have another person who is never going to be as prepared as the first. Even if they had all the talking points ready, if you were just in the frame of mind where you were tired from class and wanted to go back to the dorm, its gonna be very hard to muster up a proper debate mode mindset on a dime. Your argument would be, "well then they shouldnt have approached him to debate", which is true, but that argument only suggests that they are stupid, not that the debate is fair.
Crowder was proving that this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. How can you move forward in a conversation when every time your opponent brings up something, you tell them why its false and then they just want to move on? They don't like having their opinions challenged so they move to a new subject because as soon as you questions their argument it falls apart
Destiny has gotten better through the years because even he can't justify the insanity that is the modern left, but he still has to cling onto the idea that liberalism is correct even though time and time has proven liberalism is a mental illness.
It's because Destiny himself is on the level of Hasan and even he doesn't know it. Crowder is the only one sane in this situation. And its so obvious too xd. I mean this is probably the easiest debate topic in history. "should men compete in female sports" like how can you ever think that's ok
You mean the gish gallop that every personality like Steven Crowder & Ben Shaprio & especially Crowder engage in all the time? Weird.
@@IAmTheBugInsideYou No, there points have actual value. It's not difficult to see either. Idk what you're referring too.
@@IAmTheBugInsideYou I have been following both but I have failed to spot gish gallop from either of them.
as a trans person, i completely agree with the “trans women shouldnt be in competition with biological women” and vise versa.
Research has shown that if transition happens while or before age of puberty tran woman have lower or similar physical capabilities than biological women.
What about them?
NO. I think they should allow it. JUST THINK LEBRON JAMES transitions and plays in the WNBA. IT WOULD BE FUN! WOMEN shouldnt be bigoted about things for trans. Let women sports die or live with trans people.
The desperation in his face towards the end is priceless. Moment his ace in the hole article failed him, he cratered hard.
yeah god you can make a whole analysis video of the amount of emotions hat guy went through based purely on his facial expressions as all his bravado caved in on itself.
@@99sins And then he went to play the victim+victor on twitter, at the same time. Don't ask me how that is possible, he just did.
Also, he lost his debate with Crowder. That should be grounds for excommunication.
We're in the "Orange Background in the Thumbnail" arc now bois. The orange obviously meant to represent Destiny's imprisonment post Twitch ban. Well done August. The symbolism is enough to make a grown man weep.
Orange is the new blue.
@@doubledickdom19 i knew someone would make this joke
@@Hydranox I knew someone would comment on me making this joke.
Good meme
Probably cause Chud is straight ripping destiny style thumb nails. I’ve clicked on two videos this week thinking it was Destiny and it was chud lol
The moment you recognize that someone is blatantly lying and gaslighting you, there is nothing that will "move that conversation forward". The best thing he did was using this moment to expose this lunatic hack.
It could be that Destiny is blinded by his hatred for Steven, that he doesn’t even think that.
They way Crowder frames things does him a disservice, he's not as stupid as he seems, but he's way less funny than he thinks.
@Nightwolf8ch I can see that. Never have been much of a Crowder fan, but I used to like his Change My Mind segments, like the gun control one was great. He's definitely gone downhill since then.
New to the Destiny sphere, but I like his methods and rhetoric a lot.
He only got into politics so he could do his “comedy”
@Nightwolf8ch I definitely am in the same boat, don't agree on all points, but I like that he is interested in advancing the conversation.
I watch Crowder streams for Dave and Gerald, not Steven.
@@imthegoat94 that's crazy i always find gerald to bring tepid small pee pee energy to the conversations lol. Dave and steve improv is the best
Now that Destiny's banned from Twitch, can we please make him fly out to where Steven Crowder is and debate him irl?
Wait, what stopped him from doing that before getting banned?
@@shubashuba9209 I think Crowder is scared of debating actually smart people cuz he knows he will look bad
Yeah, unfortunately Destiny has dodged on that like 3 times.
@@TheBasedUchiha stop it 😂
Does Crowder still post the uncut footage? I swear he used to.
"if there are a hundred or a thousand people here, there's still going to be one person!"
0.018%... solid math
Lol so there's 0.018 intersex people out of every 100
we get 900 more and we can build a whole person. :D
The scariest thing is that it takes you just a one second glance of this guy to immediately know what a smug, idiotic, ideologist he is.
And that's a professional journalist on social politics. I don't even know what's going on in this world anymore.
commies are trying to take over ... thinking they are the virtuous saviors of the world .. when in reality all of their arguments fall apart when challenged .... fe fe's dont beat facts ...
But he's a woke ally BatChest
I am appalled by the number of people thinking Hasan is one of the greatest intellectuals of our time. His fanbase echo-chamber is alarming.
People who think Hasan is an intellectual are the same people who wear "eat the rich" shirts while literally watching a rich guy react to videos all day.
I for one feel really relieved thinking how many people are basically bleaching their brains clean with Hasan's bullshit. Like, this is exactly how darwinism is supposed to work.
I hereby propose the theory of the Hasan-magnet which suggests that dumbasses tend to drag each other down.
You can't be serious. That intellectual infant???
Bro literally everyone in Hasan’s fanbase knows he’s a himbo lmao. He’s a great gateway to leftist thought, so who tf cares?
Nah I just watch his trans debate lol and I am like yeah tear into em.
Cause funny enough um... No one force you to take a seat to embarrass yourself he been doing this for a while so we all know what's up and people still sit down knowing nothing.
Smartest Hasan viewer
It's so crazy how the guest can't just give him an answer whether it's yes or no. Once you answer that question then you can start the debate.
@@daviddavidson5961 I certainly can attest to that. It's all about the big vocabulary words you use oppose to facts.
@@sidney1234usc what happened to the other message?
@@cosettapessa6417 I have no clue
Thank you for taking the time to react to crowder.
I thought the journalist came in very smugly. Crowder doesn’t really come off as smug or malicious, to me, but with this other guy being a journalist, his attempt to try to brush off that he was wrong was incredibly dishonest and infuriating to me.
This guy works to write actually, professionally published news articles, and his refusal to admit that he was wrong is one of the problems most annoying to me in the media, today. So many of them just brush off their mistakes and move on like it doesn’t affect the general populous.
I'm pretty right wing and the reason I like Destiny is because he's willing to be intellectually consistent, change his mind when he finds new information, and refutes bad ideas from the left as well as the right.
He's willing to admit the merits of an opposition because he knows you can't find the truth if you're not being truthful yourself.
He has definitely grown on me.
Same here, I really enjoyed his point on sometimes staying out of a debate until you have gained a well thought out and researched position.
Destiny will soon become right wing. It is inevitable for that to happen.
Imagine if everyone was like this. I'm slightly right leaning, but I heard destiny was left. I clicked on this cause I was surprised to see someone on the left being intellectually honest. Hopefully more will be like this. The left would probably be winning all the time if they really told the truth instead of just claiming to speak the truth and trying to be the arbiters of truth.
@@calebamore i feel you, i used to watch alot of hasan and vaush up to a year ago then i became more religious. When i did become more religious and stopped watching their lives/highlights daily i realised 1 the topics they talked about were hardly in the real world and 2 alot of the time they had this strange unsubstantiated perspective of a higher mortality. To a degree it made me think you were only a good person if you were a leftist. Now I don't care lol
@@calebamore and the right wing are honest ?
From what I've heard so far Steven is right however Steven is being unreasonable, I'm glad Steven is a voice of reason since Steven usually doesn't add much to the conversation and it doesn't help that Steven is making everything worse with every point. I wish Steven went into more detail.
Steven won this debate.
So yeah, I think Stevens opinion on Steven about Steven was pretty good. Good job on Stevens end.
Crowder won without even trying,if I was a lefty I will be disappointed.
When Crowder talks to students or people who approach in good faith, not like this guy did, he treats them very differently than he treated this guy.
Yea I'm really sick of people saying "crowder just dunks of college kids."
No. This is what crowder dunking on people looks like. When crowder tears apart some incorrect argument from a college kid in a respectful manner, that's far from dunking.
@@Saltyoldguy- also I don't see how people imply he's going after "low hanging fruit", colleges are where (supposedly, anyway) some of the brightest minds teach and learn.
@@edd1EroxPwDblah Exactly. And even then, all he's asking them to do is rationalize their position. If them failing to make sense of their own position looks THAT BAD, then it's not steven's fault.
@@Saltyoldguy- the problem is not crowder himslef, its what he does, using logic and factual imperical numbers to debunk all the talking points of the left. anyone who does that gets major flak. jordan peterson is another example of someone going against the grain using logic and numbers and indoctrinated fools call him alt right etc just cuz he asks the right questions. imagine not having a full, solid, respectable argument that you have to resort to calling a person a "dunker" just cause they believe everything spoon fed ot them by babies.
I think the scariest part is the fact he almost certainly thinks he won and did AMAZING. I am legit a little afraid of the idea I can watch a video like this and have an _entirely_ different takeaway, watching the exact same thing. Maybe I am the unhinged one lmao.
You are not.
I feel like he knew he fcked up, it's just damage control now
Welcome to the Tower of Babel.
Don't forget he is a "journalist" I mean propagandist.
I disagree. He clearly looks embarrassed after the debate ended. That’s why he started doing damage control on twitter and sh*tting on Steven Crowder as an emotional reaction. You wouldn’t need to do that if you dominated Steven Crowder. The video of the debate would speak for itself.
Crowder touches his jacket because he is trying to make sure the guy isnt hostile. He talks about doing this on his show in other situations
I don't get it. How is touching the jacket about making sure the guy isn't hostile?
@@Mant111 He used it initially as a compliment (of the ensemble) to ease any tension while also establishing an excuse to have his hands ready for defense in the event of hostilities.
@@Mant111
Touching someone usually calms them down, we're social animals and touch allows us to get across we aren't hostile to each other. (Plus yes Crowder is ready to at least block a hit)
@@Mant111 Physical reactions are more telling than verbal ones. It's why body language is important, also why those that understand it can control the narrative better.
Im not commenting on what actually happens when you do this. Just letting you know why Crowder did it from his frame of reference
He came in staring the guy down, thinking he was going to be a legend.
No, this was embarrassing man
Bruh y’all complaining about the “editing”, he was literally just pausing and adding things, he never removed anything from the conversation. Also, every other one doesn’t have this editing, but this one does to emphasize how stupid this man is compared to everyone else Steven has talked too.
Also, I’m guessing that he kind of pissed crowder off after the whole Twitter thing, leading to more editing. Don’t make Steven the villain. Wake up.
Looking at that crowd of college kids holding signs and being antagonistic all because they’re too scared to accept the common sense take on this whole “issue” is just… depressing. Why is it so hard to just acknowledge the obvious? If you do, you will win every argument you ever get into on the matter just through basic logic. There is not ONE solid argument to support the position of “trans women should compete with cis women, no problem” that I have ever seen. *EVER.*
they should because hormone therapy
they are told that they need to be activist lest they be istophobes, but they also know they don’t have an argument they can defend. And here we are: screaming bonobos with signs.
@@nicholas1188 doesn't do nearly enough to the male anatomy to put trans-woman on the same platform as cis women. They lose ~5% of their muscle mass, but still are head-and-shoulders above their competitors.
@@nicholas1188 Hormone therapy reduces the male advantage by, at most, 5% according to current studies. On average a man is roughly twice as strong as a woman, a 5% reduction leaves a 95% gap between the average man and woman.
That isn't even factoring in the fact that male muscles have a different composition that is made to become stronger faster, so at the higher levels the average male athlete is far more than twice as capable as the average female athlete.
those types of people have made it very clear they don't care about facts.
"How could you beat Steven crowder, when using the arguments of Left-wing Crowder" brilliant
The part where you think you countered steven’s point on biological males playing with biological males and the opposite and then you came up with the exact argument he gives to defeat yours and then you just ignored it and moved on immediately. GOLD
This guy is a physical representation of, what happens when you attempt to please EVERYBODY with an ideal. It's truly amazing to watch. Further evidence on why nobody should even attempt to.
I liked the own at the end about Crowder's dad. It's like:
"lol, Crowder has the love and respect of his father. What a loser! (I'm very well-adjusted)"
It’s a projection. A lot of left leaning people have horrible relationships with their fathers. Now I’ll be fair and say that’s anecdotal because I’m only using online leftists and personal friends as a source to this. But I do know everyone who has attempted to roast his relationship with his dad have horrible relationships with their own. Crowder might be a daddy’s boy, but at least he has a father that loves him lol
Whoever the guy was that came up with the phrase “winning isn’t everything was a damn loser.” My 7th grade football coach
I mean lmao
LMFAO I disagree though. Enjoying myself while doing things I love is more important. As somebody that probably makes 4x what your grade 7 football coach does, I am sure he might be forced to agree with me.
says the guy that never won anything
I’m not surprised we’ve made it to the point where left leaning influencers are now nitpicking other left leaning influencers’ debates with the “other side”.
Even when the left is wrong, there is a concern with being correct and factual. The left attempts to hold everyone on any "side" to account on these points in contrast to the right that only care about "their side" beating the "other side." Sure, not all of the left manages this, but at least there is someone calling them out whereas the right has no one that keeps their dogs in line.
"nitpicking" nah left learning influencer's should continue to debate with false information
@@Tekner436 left leaning influencers are the ones propagating false information.
I'm in awe of the self confidence of this dude showing up to this debate, not only with minimal prep but also dressed up as Indianapolis fucking Jones
I don't like Crowder, but its unfair to say he goes into these "Change my Mind" discussions disingenuously. With the exception of that kid he debated on socialism a couple years back, Crowder has been very respectful and usually he has a couple good discussions with students - it's far more productive than any debates held by political figures.
@@EsotericOccultist yes I agree, Destiny and other people take the segments name “change my mind” too literally. It could/should be called “Prove me Wrong” or something
@@TomTomTom87 Should've been called "debate me bro!", all lowercase.
@@TheWolfWon lol
What's disingenuous is the framing that he's there to get his mind changed. Crowder isn't gonna change his mind. Your mind gets harder to change as you get older, he's in his 40s. And he makes a killing off triggering leftists, he's got all the "right" incentives to NOT change his mind. What would contest is the idea that he's going after low hanging fruit for going to college campuses. Sure, some of those students are most likely straight out of high school, but many others aren't. They're people that have months, even years, to study and strengthen their understanding of the positions they hold. Colleges are, supposedly, where society's brightests teach and learn. And I'm more than sure that Crowder would debate any professor that had the balls to debate him.
If I look up the percentage of intersex, literally the first link is a response to the 1.7% claim -- which is probably also the link the guy in the video found.
It says:
"Anne Fausto-Sterling s suggestion that the prevalence of intersex might be as high as 1.7% has attracted wide attention in both the scholarly press and the popular media. Many reviewers are not aware that this figure includes conditions which most clinicians do not recognize as intersex, such as Klinefelter syndrome, Turner syndrome, and late-onset adrenal hyperplasia. If the term intersex is to retain any meaning, the term should be restricted to those conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female. Applying this more precise definition, the true prevalence of intersex is seen to be about 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than Fausto-Sterling s estimate of 1.7%."
I mean... if you're making such strong claims, how can you not know this? It's literally the first result that comes up if you type the question in a search engine.
Fausto-Sterling is most likely an LGBT propagandist that has made this number up to manufacture consent for the ideology by making it more serious than it actually is. I mean how often do these types bring up intersex? And they aren't even 0.1%?
Yeah, that kind of distinction matters. It's unfortunate, but I don't think that anyone with Klinefelters syndrome or Turner syndrome are competing in high level athletics of either sex category. Maybe the paralympics, but even then, I'd have to look it up.
I don't understand why that distinction would be relevant for what they are talking about. You can agree with Anne's categorization from what I'm getting here. The article is proposing that we be more narrow but you'd have to prove that this document set the standard that we're using now.
And either way intersex people are rare. I don't get why that would help in this discussion.
@@Theyungcity23 It matters because this is what the groomers always do. They change a definition and then acting by their new definition they tell people that are operating based on the old one that the exception is way bigger than it actually is. This subversion needs to be shot down at every step.
@@Theyungcity23
I think the text pretty clearly explains why it's relevant.
A 'biological man', who looks like a man and feels like a man, but has a chromosomal disorder which makes him infertile, have weaker muscles and poor coordination's, is still a man. Adding those people to the intersex label, just doesn't really make sense in this discussion. Those people don't want to participate in female competitions. Hell, like the DolphinTuna already mentions, it's very unlikely that they even can. They'd sooner enter the paralympics.
How are these people relevant in this discussion? Why do some people want to lump them in with the people who might be male, might be female, and probably fall somewhere in between, because they have characteristics of both?
The only reason I see for wanting to lump these groups together for these kinds of discussions, is to pad the numbers.
As for why a 100 times fewer people in a group is relevant: that is because that is how we give things urgency. If Corona had a 100 times fewer casualties, we would hardly be talking about it. If it had a 100 times more casualties, we'd be locked in our houses.
And just like that, disadvantaging 1 one person to protect women sports as a category, is much less bad, than disadvantaging a 100 people.
But yes, even then you can still use a lot of the same arguments. More people does however weight the scale differently.
----
I also just looked at the Wikipedia entry for intersex, and the 'Prevalence' paragraph makes the 1.7% numbers look even worse. Because additionally to the critique above, apparently even the author of that study(?) isn't defending those numbers.
Quote(but go read it yourself):
"In a 2003 letter to the editor, political scientist Carrie Hull analyzed the data used by Fausto-Sterling and said the estimated intersex rate should instead have been 0.37%, due to many errors.[69] In a response letter published simultaneously, Fausto-Sterling welcomed the additional analysis and said "I am not invested in a particular final estimate, only that there BE an estimate".[69] A 2018 review reported that the number of births with ambiguous genitals is in the range of 0.02% to 0.05%.[3]"
So no. You can't agree with Anne's categorization. It's flawed. The only people who still propagate that number, are people with an agenda.
"You don't have to have an opinion about everything," golden advice. It's easy to forget that sometimes and get too passionate about something you don't know much about.
This was my first destiny video and have to say, I'm disappointed. Destiny has fun shit talking both Crowder and the journalist, then comments on how he (the journalist) should listen to Destiny to know how to debate Crowder, but Destiny doesn't provide any positions.
Just sneaky and safe attacks, super disappointing commentary.
I mean Destiny did say that there were points that could have been made that were not made, such as "if we want trans men in women's sports because they're biologically female, isn't that also unfair because of the testosterone they take as part of transitioning?" It's a more productive line of debate than bringing up intersex people at least. Then you can get to the fact that Crowder probably doesn't want trans men in women's sports either.
@@senorspam9424 right, I did say he made some "safe" comments, so your example is still within the realm of my comment.
@@garfield1964 I think you should reflect on your comment but for yourself for missing the point of my comment 👌
@@garfield1964 clearly it's lost on you, you Cherry picked 🍒 an acute element of it and went off. You truly are defined within your own comment 😂🙌
In regards to Crowder's tone when calling him on his BS. What other way do you proceed? At that point productive conversation is gone. A pompous douche tried to deceive with false info.
In other scenarios when someone had incorrect statistics, Crowder would present factual stats and be polite.
Steven watches Steven debate Steven.
I've seen damn near every Change-My-Mind and while Steven probably didn't have the absolute best responses with this guy this isn't exactly the norm with a CMM in the 1st place so I think that needs to be taken into account. Also the "Don't say gay bill" doesn't exist, the word doesn't show up anywhere in the bill and the bill is equally attributable to heterosexuality
I'd be pretty surprised if a hetero teacher would get fired for talking about their marriage. The nature of straightness being seen as a ubiquitous part of our climate is still here. Whereas there are still plenty of people who believe that speaking about ones non-straightness is a pathway to grooming kids. Gayness and striaightness don't get the same treatment in social discourse, and probably won't for years to come.
Even if all was equal between the gays and the straights, HB 1557 is still very fucking weird. Like whats wrong with teachers talking about having a spouse?
And what about other things the bill will do? Will a teacher have to stop to get parental consent during a medical emergency involving their kid? Will the parents be allowed to sue for if a teacher saves a kids life, but didn't get the parents consent? The bill is worded in such a way that it easily implies "Yes" if brought to court.
"You don't have to have an opinion about everything." is an advice I got in my very late teens from someone. I think it saved me from a lot of headaches over the years.
The problem with your push back regarding Transmen on testosterone is that they shouldn't be allowed to compete as testosterone is a PED. If a ciswoman isn't allowed to take testosterone then why would you allow a transman to compete while using it?
Yeah, and Crowder would even agree that having a separate division, where they took these hormone replacements/enhancers, would be acceptable compromise. He's about sports being fair. He doesn't care if you're trans or not.
Isn’t it allowed for usage to treat a medical condition, no? Meaning an entire group can’t compete in either division without halting the medical treatment for their condition?
I was looking for this, what if transmen still trained with testosterone but stopped using it when preparing for the Olympics (however long that takes)? Would the training that someone undertook as a "man" still be too much of an advantage over regular women? If yes, transmen wouldn't be allowed to compete in general.
@@14DANESSJ With the exception of medical conditions the use of PEDs is illegal in most if not all sports. IMO since Transitioning is a choice and not a medical condition it should disqualify the participant in the same way it would for a cis person that used steroids in training.
@@MrNaptyme But say a 25 year old transmen stopped taking testosterone 18 months before the Olympics. Would the training before those 18 months still be considered an advantage over cis women?
I hate that intersex is used as a crutch for the pro trans athlete cause. It's non sequitur. Transgender and intersex are not the same thing and could require two entirely different solutions and different argument.
Not really that simple, because someone transitioning is basically in the same boat as a lot of intersex people, because they basically became intersex themselves. It's not like a guy can just claim to be trans and sign up in the womens league. The argument is about them after they are far down the spectrum to the other side, but aren't quite there in the same class as the ones who didn't have male puberty happen already.
@@usucdikbut they aren't exactly the same. Intersex is more broad a term which is why there is a debate over who exactly is intersex. Transitioning is optional where being born intersex isn't, and if I were to go around calling all trans people intersex the internet would have my nuts on a platter. Different topics although similar in some regards very different.
@@usucdik You give far more good faith for the intersex point then there is. The point of bringing up intersex is usually to muddle to water shift goal posts and bog down the argument in semantics.
@@iklo7476 or it's just that there is common ground so not a random factor to use as a point. It's not entirely different and doesn't mean entirely different solutions. Kinda seems like you just hate complexity and want everything to be as binary as possible, so you act like people are trying to "muddle the water" by bringing up things that show you might not be able to just make a hard rule to force everything into place which would mean leaving a bunch of people out.
@@usucdik wait are you seriously arguing that intersex and trans are basically the same thing then saying I don't like complexity. My whole argument is that these things are different enough that they require a two separate arguments lmfao.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 🎙️ Crowder aims to crucify his opponent on a mistake rather than have a productive conversation.
00:28 🗣️ The debater, a Hasan listener, struggles against Crowder due to lack of strong arguments and familiarity with the topic.
00:55 📚 Reference to a medical journal and debate on intersex traits and sports inclusion.
02:06 🏫 College students' behavior questioned in the context of the debate.
03:21 🧥 Introduction of Stephen Monticelli, a contributing writer at Rolling Stone, and debate banter.
05:10 💡 Discussion on dialogue techniques and body language in debates.
07:17 ⚖️ Debate on gender and sex distinctions, including intersex cases, in sports.
15:51 🎙️ Hasan criticizes Crowder for using Google search results without understanding the studies, emphasizing the importance of in-depth knowledge in debates.
20:14 🧠 Crowder focuses on exposing Hasan's mistake instead of fostering a productive conversation, hindering the debate's progress.
20:49 📚 Hasan advises Crowder to maintain a respectful and productive tone, highlighting the importance of being a good faith interlocutor in debates.
21:17 🏳️🌈 The rarity of intersex individuals is discussed, challenging the significance of their presence in sports and the need for fair categorization.
23:43 💪 Hasan argues that the existence of transgender individuals, regardless of rarity, is natural, countering any argument against their participation in sports as transphobic.
24:38 🏋️♂️ Crowder questions the dominance of transgender athletes in sports, suggesting the need for separate categories while Hasan challenges the validity of the provided statistics.
29:27 ⚖️ Hasan highlights the inconsistency in Crowder's argument, pointing out potential unfairness in segregating transgender men and women in different sports categories.
31:50 🏀 Crowder questions the essentialist nature of Hasan's argument, leading to a discussion about the binary understanding of sex and gender in sports.
34:24 🎙️ Hasan confronts Crowder with the perspective of female athletes who oppose the participation of biological males in women's sports, emphasizing the need for fair competition.
35:52 🤯 Monicelli accuses Crowder of avoiding interaction with people who challenge him, exhibiting obsessive behavior after the debate.
Made with HARPA AI
It's easy to sit back and criticize when you aren't the one sitting down actually having the discussion. I don't agree with probably half of Crowders positions but he seems like the kind of person that would at least be a bit humble about himself. Destiny just comes off as a bit pompous or too sure of himself. The real value in the Change My Mind segments is when you do have actual good conversations from opposing sides and realize that both are reasonable and not too different.
Guy who doesn’t understand or enjoy sports: “well maybe we should stop taking sports so seriously!”
Lol yeah how about you just stay in your lane and write your shtty articles.
youre telling me a published journalist unironically uses hasan as the logical basis for his work?
Honestly I’m a libertarian leaning right, but this guy has earned my respect. he’s extremely informed and has great critical thinking. not that I necessarily agree on all the issues he supports but I was having the exact same thoughts while watching this debate and Hassan. Subscription earned :)
Yah destiny definitely know his stuff and honestly most smart people from both parties agree probably agree on most things is the few things that we disagree we make the loudest arguments for.
what are you thoughts on child marriage
16:10 His point about him having the "google search" prepaired was that the information he presented was wrong. I doubt he would have said anything against anyone bringing sources prepaired
Its not just that its wrong, the guy was saying that ''a simple google search'' like its information so obvious and easy to adquire, he can find it any time by just asking in google and getting it right away. It was like saying to crowder: ''its so easy to find, you must be dumb for not knowing about this, bro''
that was the first thing I noticed from that segment, and based on his smug attitude at that point, I might be right about it
@@xLuis89x yeah, my point was just regarding Destinys argument about Crowder dissing on someone having sources prepaired while he himself have sources prepaired. In my view Destiny just failed to understand that this was not why Crowder was shitting on him
Yeah this is destiny reaching for any criticism against Crowder
@@Borrelaas I think this was a issue with the sentence Crowder used. "He did have the whole thing planned out poorly" could have probably been worded a little differently to emphasize that it was a intentionally bad google search to lie. Instead it sounds like the "poorly" is just making fun of his previously prepared google search. Only after reading these comments did I think about it in the way you two are talking about it and I now see that it can be interpreted differently.
@@ashmasterc i interprited him saying "poorly" as a reference to how the information he provided was incorrect. The pause before poorly i feel like makes the emphasis fall on poorly which in my mind makes me think that its not the "having sources prepaired" that is the focus, but the "poorly" ie, having misinformation prepaired.
idk
Introverted writers are the easiest prey for debaters. Guy should have known better.
it's clear he's not a good debater. crowder has many flaws in his argument, but he's confident, which gives up a big advantage when dealing when introverted writer types
Introverted, pussified etc you get the idea.
He's a braindead leftist, not an "introverted writer".
There are little to no flaws. In an argument you can all have correct information yet vastly opposing perspectives on the issue. Both being arguably correct takes.
This is a simple argument Crowder makes. The more convoluted the argument is, the more likely it is to be riddled with flaws.
Great for having conversations with though.
When your axioms are grounded in being morally lucky.
more like when your axioms are grounded in an online daddy you simp for that is morally lucky. It's more pathetic when you consider how little of anything happening here is anything more than parroting Hasan-isms.
This is the stupidest argument that is coming in fashion right now, that people who used to be bigots are more intelligent than people who were never bigots in the first place.
Basically it's the equivalent too "people who grew up being taught to wipe their asses as toddlers are less knowledgeable than people who had to be convinced in their late twenties that a shitty asshole is not cool"
The fact this guy - who is evidently so clueless - actually writes for the Rolling Stone, and has some vague clout online, kinda highlights everything that is wrong with things rn.
@2:42 LOL Michigan State University students had a violent riot when they WON their 2022 homecoming game hahahaha
Is there anything more annoying than someone who thinks that in a debate they have to disagree with literally everything the other person says?
So Vaush 99% of the time?
@@ACE112ACE112 On the topic of the debate you obviously have a particular side that you will stick to but that doesn't mean you have to also oppose the other persons every thought. For fear of agreeing with Crowder, the guy can't even admit that the purpose of sport is to compete and try to win.
And to be honest I'd say that hopefully the purpose of a debate was to try and bring the other person around to your way of thinking by convincing them of your arguments, which is why his bit is called "change my mind" and not "Argue with me".
@@ACE112ACE112 you can share premises and come to different conclusions. often even if you don't agree with then opponents axioms a skilled debator can make a strong argument that the resulting conclusion is something different, or merely that the opponents conclusion doesn't follow
@@semperk1482
Exactly lol which if he see a flaw in your argument he will attack it now like he did defend it and if you can't lol.
@@semperk1482 No it's not at all actually. Debate is a truth seeking behavior (or at least used to be), you enter a debate with an opinion and arguments and the goal is to leave having hashed out the truth with an opposing viewpoint. To this end one needs to not only be open to the possibility of being wrong, but also the idea that the participants either win or lose together. Having dicovered the truth or being left with remaining questions. At some point our modern culture corrupted Debate into a bad-faith ego game where the art of persuasion is preferred to the persuit of truth. You are now supposed to verbally spar with an opponent until one is humiliated and one is vindicated regardless of facts or truth. This "battle of ideas" philosophy has terrible consequences for our discourse, and nearly every "intellectual" influencer is guilty of perpetuating it.
I can easily say before your ban I never watched you. I was fairly right wing, I still am there is things that I just dont agree with, but I can say you are exposing me to things I simply dont see in the right-o-sphere. You coming from such a level head and providing such clear arguments that are easy to understand but not shallow and come from no where like most lefty talking points. I really thank you Destiny for broadening and adding nuance to my politics.
based and dgg-pilled
I'm a Drumpfster or whatever the left would call me but I watch Destiny's videos because he does raise some very good points. This is just an unsourced opinion but it does feels like more people on the right are willing to listen to the left but not vice versa.
destiny admittedly hates us as much as lefties BUT I still watch his content because he actually knows what the fuck he's talking about, and I can admit I love when he shits on my ideological enemies
@@lornemalvo4492 Too true.
And that's the key. Listening to multiple points instead of falling into an echo chamber. I've pretty much got the same story as you, and some views are hard to challenge but it's the only way I can grow as a person and solidify my opinions on some topics instead of just spouting talking points like a lot of other people.
I think touching the coat and complimenting these people is a way of building rapport and trying to mitigate any hostile emotions before getting into a controversial discussion
I would usually agree but I feel like Crowder insulting the guys outfit in the intro makes it feel insincere (and so potentially some sort of power move type thing).
I mean, I get why Crowder didn't want to move forward with him, the other dude's tone and his whole vibe made it clear that he just came there to "own" Crowder with "facts"
Dude spend his entire life training to the point of injury, his entire life serves as a vessel for training and then even more training. Buckets of blood, tears and sweat .
- So you are doing it because
- I want to win the medal and become the best athlete in my sport
- I see...so the joy of participa...
- I literally ended my relationship because it interfere with my training, I do not remember last time I ever drank alcohol because it interferes with my muscle response time and decrease my time by 0,01%
- So you are doing it to participate in a community of...
- One time I spend three weeks in a mountain retreat bascially suffocating myself to increase the amount of red cells in my blood to increase my performance by 1,5%.
Reminds of me of the "...so what you are saying..." with Jordan Peterson.
@@anelbegic2780 When I listened to this guy I had flashes of Ronnie Coleman, dude trained so hard that he received every possible injury a human body can receive and live (and probably a few which should technically kill him) to become a legend in (let's be honest with ourselves) quite a niche sport. I wonder how would he react to this "it is about having fun" rhethoric
@@JM-mh1pp
Pussies, busybodies and people trying way too hard to hide skeletons in their closet. Takes me right back to every suposedly male feminist and/or ally turning out to be a sexual predator and/or devient in private while chastizing the same shit in public.
Dedication goes against the subterfuge teachings of marx afterall, it could undermine the message. Especially if the action requires the message to take a backseat sometimes, not even always or for long for that matter.
@@JM-mh1pp and with all those insane things people are willing to do to themselves for marginal gains there are still people that won't even entertain the possibility that someone would be willing to transition to win.
@@robinheinemann1740
Sorry if it's abit long btw, didn't mean to make it so.
Winning would require clear lines in the sand, rules and defitions. People like this dishit don't want that since their message looses it's impact if it can't be spread like a virus. Dedication to ones sport has also, at least in men, been linked to an increase testostrone and confidence and there is nothing people like this hate more.
People like this guy talking to crowder, and to a much lesser extent Crowder as well at times, thrive on vagueness so they can more easily spred their message since it can be molded more easily rather then have a definite stop.
Think of it in SFO's (short fat otaku) game method when he talked about afghanistan, the afghans were playing an infinite game of survival and the Amercians were playing a finite game of govermental stability.
In this case Crowder is playing a finite game more while dipshits like this guy are playing the infinite game, a reversal of roles ironically enough from back when. This guy might, if he actually defines what he means and researches it, be able to beat Crowder but he comes in with vague feelings and definitions to compared to something like the story JM 1 told me now.
As someone who had gynecomastia for years after puberty, I don’t think it’d be considered an intersex trait as the onset of gynecomastia in teenagers is caused by the fluctuation of hormones during puberty. Elderly men with diminishing levels of testosterone can also develop gynecomastia after not having it their entire life.
It has nothing to do with intersex, its hormone inbalance . Its common with bodybuilders who use Test because they have massive amounts of estrogen
Its ok, everybody that doesnt think ur a real woman is a transphobe
There's also a case study of an old man who got severe gyno caused by his insane diet of like a gallon of soy milk a week. No joke look it up lmao
Yup same. I still have mild gyno and i believe it has nothing to do with being intersex lol
Yeah i looked it up and gyno wasnt classified as intersex conditions. Its things like having more than one or only chromosome and gonad ambiguity. Thats what the "intersex trait" is classified as.
I really like how Destiny is having to pause the video to coach people on not to reveal too much of their opinion because people will think you're crazy
Crowder is only hammering him because he lied about factual data and wants him to admit he was incorrect. if they can't agree on factual data, then the conversation is pointless.
STOP. Your making too much sense Destiny might ban you.
I'm actually pretty conservative, but I listen to you because I can appreciate any person who thinks for themselves and comes up with an opinion based on their own thoughts and research. This guy is an example of what happens when you don't think for yourselves, and listen to an echo chamber. Been listening for a while, still haven't really shifted my views, but it's refreshing to hear from someone who doesn't agree w/ me but is intelligent or well researched enough to actually address issues.
It's upsetting when I can make an argument to someone that is clearly flawed (which I used to do but don't anymore), and they can't debunk it. Unfortunately, that's like 99% of people. Just sad.
Wow a real legitimate slave owner 👎🏿
you know his "research" is the first page of google results and 4 line abstracts, right?
Yeah I mean I’m very far right and I watch destiny, he used to be worse than he is now, I actually watch vaush too. I like to know what the wrong opinion is as well.
I’ve watched destiny since like 2011 when he was a semipro StarCraft player though, so that is part of the reason. I’m very far right but I agree with communists like haz from infrared more than people like Dave Rubin.
you know "conservative" means echo chamber right?
@@emmaholley7493 It doesn't. Words have meanings. Don't be dumb.
I disagree, you can't continue or be "above it" and try to continue the conversation if people disagree with the facts being presented. At that point you can't move on until the other person accepts it or leaves.
I think the point is that the journalist obviously was wrong, but after he knew he was wrong, changed his argument to "regardless of the percentage of intersex people, they still do exist and you have to take them into account somehow, even if they are less present". He didn't admit he was wrong and Crowder found it funny and bashed this guy's head over and over again. Both are wrong I feel like. Crowder is wrong in staying on it, because the facts being presented has nothing to do with the argument that the journalist makes afterwards. It's a very disingenous thing to change arguments based on the fact that you realized you were factually wrong, without admitting that you were wrong, but Crowder can still technically move onto the journalist's next argument and refute that one, which he didn't.
TL;DR The facts being presented wasn't necessary to the journalist's argument after he was proven wrong, so Crowder did have the ABILITY to move on.
@@crimsonair8890 but that's kinda the point. Steven's whole point was that in his mind the left never argues in good faith and never has their ideas challenged and held to a standard. The journalist just lied about facts to prove his point, and there's a reason why you can't just let someone get away with that, it's kinda a big reason why the left and the right can't talk to one another anymore.
@@crimsonair8890 The debate is over at that point because it's disingenuous, so may aswell rip him for being confidently on the peak of ignorance. How can you have a debate without the ability to concede just because you're using someone else's misinformed opinion without researching it yourself. Instead of clipping a line of out-of-context text because it fits your view, read the whole thing, before you try to use it as a source.
@@crimsonair8890 whether it was necessary to his argument, he presented ot as such and lost that point. He should at least show honesty by first conceding the point and only then move on since its not a huge loss.
@@ErgoProxy12345 yep I agree, but to say that Crowder cannot possible move on is also false, both could’ve, and both should’ve
that dude is wearing not one, not two, but THREE collars 😂
Holy shit when like 8 ppl in chat spammed Benjamin Button when he talked about a movie and aging I about died from laughing
That guy was such a perfect candidate for Crowder's segment that I believe it proves he couldn't have been a paid actor lol. Why he thought he could get past Crowder's pretty basic takes is beyond me, must be the ego from being a journalist.
Yeah basic as to the left trans woman are woman and not man cosplaying but that's pretty basic.
I mean it's common sense but hey lol.
@@lolicongang.4974 except they are literally men trying to be women, which is fine and I will respect them as such. But we have to identify they are NOT the same as biological women, at least not yet.
@@femimark5021
Sorry I don't give a damn about your identity.
Separate it from gender which is based off your sex.
The common social construct of what females or males tend to do right like boy tend to like action figures and such and girls liking dolls.
It's based off of sex.
So a woman is also based off of sex it is not something you can just say you are as ITS YOUR FUCKIN BODY.
when your bones are seen and studied guess what they can tell if your a male or female.
Man or woman.
Oh I feel like a girl.
Tell me what do all girls feel like what do all girls like what do all girls do?
Hmm?
Are these feminine males trans but don't know it cause they act more like a typical female.
How about the lesbians?
Hmm?
They got nothing to grasp onto cause even the social construct Is nothing as it's broken every day.
All the facts are based on our bodies not feelings.
Biology.
This is crazy that you would say you will respect this bullshit man cosplaying as female and doing this shit.
@@femimark5021 They are not biologically assigned females, but societally are still women
Crazy as it sounds to most people there is a difference
@@hungrybeakstudios472 well I think it is still important to make some distinctions until technology minimizes the biological component. However outside of said distinctions I am happy to respect their identity.
You gotta love the deep irony of "change my mind". It somehow encompasses all of youtube politics in 3 words. It's a pretty bad sign if you've never been painfully wrong, where it hits you right in the ego
The irony being?
Yeah and I do have to agree with Destiny about Crowder not really wanting his mind changed. There was one segment with a well-educated Socialist that was able to counter all of Crowder's arguments, and Crowder did exactly what he makes fun of, which is running away or deflecting. I will say I gained a respect for a lot of his fans though, whom mostly called him out on it.
Crowder is actually open To have his mind changed the problem is that democrats views that democrats views are Ridiculous nonsense. And therefore no my therefore no mind is going to be changed in these conversations with Browder because hes bringing facts and reality and democrats are bringing propaganda and emotion.
well crowder even said the main thing its to have a rational conversation about controversial topics, ur taking “change my mind” too seriously
@@The_Real_Frisbee
Why is the "he doesn't ACTUALLY want his kind changed" such a big pissing match for yall lol. I could understand if Crowder frequently stonewalled or some other Twitter tier bullshit. But why think thats a big deal when it's objectively outweighed by how stupid, underdeveloped, emotional and irrational the other persons takes tend to be. They could NEVER change any of this comment sections mind because more ppl have atleast an adept understanding of the subject.
"We shouldn't be taking sports so seriously", an athlete trains he's whole life to win a medal, people like Hassan don't care about sports, for them sports it's not about pushing the boundaries about what a human body can do, for them sports is just about diversity
14 minutes in and still haven’t heard any arguments or opinions from Destiny about the actually issues brought up
This guy is so bad, that for the first time in history, I took Crowder's side. And to do that hurt me physically.
Name a _single thing_ Crowder has ever said on any Change my Mind segment that he has been incorrect about. If you can't do that, then you're thinking with your feelings instead of your thinker.
@@stupidanon5941 in this change my mind session he said that people should compete against their natural born gender. So trans-men taking testosterone are supposed to compete against women? I think he was wrong on that.
@@Va11idus That's a value-judgment, on both of your parts. What that wasn't, was a statement about observable reality that can be falsified or not. It was a position he took on a debatable question. You've taken the opposite position.
Frankly, I don't think Crowder, or conservatives in general, should even be bothering with this question at all, because this isn't a conservative, liberal, or whatever-the-hell-else issue, this is a 'woman' issue, and women are the reason why trans women are allowed into women's sports in the first place, and if they do or don't want that, they need to make up their fucking minds, because no one else who is thinking remotely clearly about this gives a damn, because nobody but the competitors and their families give a damn about women's sports.
@@stupidanon5941 I don't think he even believes that though. I think he was being sloppy with his debate and didn't think it through.
@@Va11idus "I don't think he even believes that though."
Now, _that_ is one of the bigger exercises in epistemological hubris that I've seen in my time. Not the biggest, but it's up there.
"I think he was being sloppy with his debate and didn't think it through."
I think it's far more likely that he just doesn't believe 'trans men' (aka women) on testosterone should be competing in sports at all. You're saying he's sloppy, I'm saying you're both not being charitable enough to his position, _and_ your ability to extrapolate reasonable interpretations is limited.
My God. . . you people won't even grant that someone has thought their position through and _does_ actually believe what they say. You know what that's called? _Bad faith_ . You seriously need to stop that shit.
“Why do you even care about sports? Just don’t care like me and let the trans people have whatever they want”. This is what these people are saying but with a bunch of big words added in.
If he thinks elite sports are just for fun then he shouldn't have a problem with trans women competing against CIS men. They won't win but at least they will have fun. They could even give out a trophy for best trans athlete competing against CIS men to recognize their individual accomplishments.
I do appreciate that you aren’t taking stuff out of context and that you aren’t faking things or twisting shit. I can tell we would disagree about stuff but you don't seem like you’re upset about facts and if someone’s opinion is wrong. Good vid dude. I appriciate looking at it from both sides.
This is really a video of a Steven watching a video of 2 Stevens debating.
32:34 100% if you don’t know about something or don’t care, you really shouldn’t be someone making this argument on a platform. Because you will 100% lose to someone that either 1 does care or 2 has done their homework
''He had this planned out....poorly'' You missed the crucial part of why Crowder highlighted the ''2-click google search'' . Cause he pre-planned something he didn't read.
Exactly, there is nothing wrong with 'planning' something with sound data and sound arguments, lol. But this guy is just lazy.
@@Char...... I agree to some extent, but how the saying goes, he who is without sin cast the first stone, lol. Although I generally TRY to avoid doing stuff like that, I'm pretty sure there are instances where I let my own bias lead me into this 'uncharitable' territory of interpreting someone's actions. It actually requires conscious effort NOT to do that in some situations.
U got mad he kept “interrupting” the video yet u stopped it every 10 seconds and gave ur nerd opinion
Watching Steven review this debate between left Steven and right Steven is a ride.
What does that guy mean don't take sports so seriously?
In high-school you play seriously for a sports scholarship.
In college you play seriously for a spot on a major leagues.
In the Majors you play seriously for millions or a spot in the Olympics
In the Olympics you play seriously because the pride of the nation is on your back and also a spot for the Olympic orgies.
I'm just a sports fan and that sentiment pisses me off so goddamn much.
It's just clear indication that 1. he lost and has no solid position to pin Crowder on so he has to double back and just put all of sports on the backburner and 2. he does not give a shit about anything sports beyond the woke points (and clout and cash) he can earn by having the wokest opinion on it.
I think with how defeated he looked before that it wouldn't be out there to say that there was no brain activity going on when he uttered that so there's no point analyzing something that was said with zero thought put into it.
The vast majority of high school students are not playing for a sports scholarship. Most people are playing for the fun of competition. To be clear I still think a very valid reason to take sports seriously, but most kids know pretty early on if they are in the running for a scholarship.
Olympic orgies the fuck lol
Omg I just looked it up 😂
@@luciddoggo5094 There's definitely some truth to that, although I dont know that its quite so cut and dry. For example let's say scholarships vanished, would most of the top tier basketball students quit? I imagine many of them would keep playing because they still enjoy the competition
Now we need a destiny viewer to debate crowder
Hasn't that already happened?
Nah 100% disagree, this "journalist" shouldve done better research. Thanks for introducing me to steven i love this guy
Remember folks this is your average Democrat voter. Chilling.