CHEAP DIY ELECTRIC MTB VS PREMIUM £7000 E-BIKE!

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  • Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
  • Cheap DIY electric MTB vs Premium £7000 e-bike! I put two very different electric mountain bikes head to head to show you the difference when you spend the money on an epic Canyon ebike! Would you ride the cheap bike?
    I ride Twisted Oaks bikepark on two very different ebikes and see if the cheap DIY ebike kit from Alibaba can keep up with the incredible build of the Canyon Torque ON. We start off straight away with a race between myself and Lewi Pilgrim who take the reins of the Canyon while I try to tame the cheap bike at full speed around berms and over jumps! After this it's all about wheelies as they truly never get old! We then head to some bigger jumps to make the unthinkable happen. This cheap bike really wasn't as bad as I thought. Would you ride it?
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    I hope you enjoy the video!
    MERCH:
    www.tothesky.s...
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Welcome to my channel, I'm a professional Freeride Mountain biker and former FMB world champion(2013).
    This channel is all about Mountain biking, I make a huge variety of videos for everyone who loves dirt: From downhill biking to slower paced trials riding and everything in between like dirt jumping, slopestyle and enduro!
    As well as making entertaining videos(I hope) I also like to help YOU out too, with videos such as:
    - How to ride better
    - Trick tips and How to's
    - Travel VLOGS
    - GoPro camera tips
    - In-depth entertaining features
    - POV craziness
    - Funny videos
    I also try to reply to everyone so leave some comments too!

Комментарии • 263

  • @ArtForm460
    @ArtForm460 Месяц назад +169

    Would like to see a mid range mtb (£1000-£1500) with a conversion kit Vs the Purple Beast!

    • @SamPilgrim
      @SamPilgrim  Месяц назад +54

      Yeah good idea!! 👍

    • @MarvinWestmaas
      @MarvinWestmaas Месяц назад +7

      @@SamPilgrim And use something decent, like a Toseven DM2 if you want your 'beast' to win or a DM1 if you want to leave it in the dust.
      If not willing to splurge on those, get a Tongshen. Tsdz2B is going for the most budget option, Tsdz8 if you want to have a useful bike after the video you can actually ride on or lend to someone and they would have a good time with it ( if you pick a decent platform ofc ).
      My tsdz2b + battery made me ride my Giant Thalon 27.5 way more, and it was a lot cheaper as your beast ( and performs a lot better as this 'budget budget cheap pile of junk bike ;) ).

    • @BaldBloke
      @BaldBloke Месяц назад +4

      @@SamPilgrim don't forget to wear a black hoodie and balaclava🤣

    • @steviefpv
      @steviefpv Месяц назад +2

      I wish mid range was 1000-1500 that’s like entry level that still has naff forks lol

    • @2223jels
      @2223jels Месяц назад

      yeah why would you do this ..

  • @kevinwehleit6376
    @kevinwehleit6376 Месяц назад +6

    Woah!!! Alison! You are killing it! Pumping the track and so much air time now, well done 🤘🏿

  • @MotoGuy-ul6lp
    @MotoGuy-ul6lp Месяц назад +21

    Would be good to see a £3000 emtb vs the £7000 one.

  • @Prophes0r
    @Prophes0r Месяц назад +13

    The hub motor conversion kits work SO MUCH better.
    None of that chain garbage to deal with and the torque is usually better.
    I've done several conversions with $300-$400 USD and they have worked VERY well.
    It's also nice to be able to have two wheel drive.
    One of the conversions was for a cargo bike with a 1kw front & 1.5kw rear motor.

    • @ionclaw7340
      @ionclaw7340 Месяц назад +1

      where can i get the one he has for $200??

    • @JasonNosajasoNosaj
      @JasonNosajasoNosaj Месяц назад

      I don't believe it. Hubs break on rough off-road and you don't have gears. I want to be wrong so post some YT video names proving otherwise.

    • @Prophes0r
      @Prophes0r Месяц назад +1

      @@JasonNosajasoNosaj The hub is the center part of the wheel. every bike has (at least) 2 hubs.
      I don't mean the old style hubs with internal gearing/braking.
      The hub motors I have used replace the hubs on a set of wheels. You put the derailleur gears on them the same way as normal hubs.
      There are hub motors with nowhere to mount gears, but I'm pretty sure those are made for front wheels.
      NOTE: Wow I haven't looked at what is offered in a few years, and either these sellers are getting WAY more bold in their marketing claims(likely) or the current generation motors have WAY more power than the ones I was using. I'm seeing 5-9kw hub motors for sale...
      EDIT: I think some of these are much larger ones designed for E-DirtBikes.

  • @gretchynandy
    @gretchynandy Месяц назад +17

    No dinner for Alison! That's harsh but the Canyon looks amazing. Great fun.

  • @alexford5214
    @alexford5214 Месяц назад +28

    "Just trust me, Im used to this rubbish stuff" LOLOLOL

  • @ghostducky0839
    @ghostducky0839 Месяц назад +5

    i want an ebike so bad! This just makes me need one even more Great video sam!

    • @SubaruWRC1996
      @SubaruWRC1996 Месяц назад +1

      I got the specialized turbo levo about 2 weeks ago and I absolutely love it, definitely worth the money. I also use it for work and on my scott hardtail it used to have it took me 35 minutes to get home and on the specialized it takes 12 to 15 minutes

    • @Wockkkyyslushieee
      @Wockkkyyslushieee Месяц назад

      Seems good for Big trails for assisting uphill or After a crash when you can barely Pedal

  • @creageous
    @creageous Месяц назад +3

    Wow! Alison is doing super great. So much improvement since the episode where you taught her how to take some air. Very impressed!

  • @stunninfella
    @stunninfella Месяц назад +1

    Loving Alison’s progression. Well done!!!

  • @BenjySparky
    @BenjySparky Месяц назад +1

    Today was EPIC, Sam, Lewi,and Allison, y'all rock! You better feed, Allison😂. To the sskkyyy. Peace ❤

  • @MountainBikeMusings
    @MountainBikeMusings Месяц назад +1

    OMG😂 can’t believe you flipped that POS!

  • @FuzzyStone01
    @FuzzyStone01 Месяц назад +1

    I want to see more head to head for sure! :D what a fun

  • @murphymurphy6684
    @murphymurphy6684 Месяц назад +2

    I love your enthusiasm Sam. Makes me wanna get out on my bike and have a blast everytime I watch your vids!

  • @xpndblhero5170
    @xpndblhero5170 Месяц назад

    I wish I could show Sam the glory of 72v 15kw ebike kits... I bet he would love that because it's just like a Cake or Sur Ron but lighter and faster. ⚡❤😁

  • @Prerejection
    @Prerejection Месяц назад +1

    Me watching this wanting a conversion kit for my bike just for commuting never planning on doing anything remotely close to any of this

  • @tylerhamilton-nz8qs
    @tylerhamilton-nz8qs Месяц назад +1

    Couldn't care less for a 7 grand e bike. Last week I paid £3250 Honda Goldwing 1800cc literally a cadillac on 2 wheels!

  • @detmer87
    @detmer87 Месяц назад +1

    That DIY kit looks like the *very first* kit that ever came to the market. Last 10 years we have seen *much better* DIY kits from Bafang, Tongsheng, Toseven and CYC...

  • @psvhangoveral
    @psvhangoveral Месяц назад

    Ive converted my 2001 Orange Patriot LT into an eeeeb and its epic!

  • @DanParrArt
    @DanParrArt Месяц назад

    Having built a custom ebike and knowing all the parts you have to upgrade to cope with the extra power I truly feared for your life on that death trap!

  • @andyukh1625
    @andyukh1625 Месяц назад

    I gotta say, Alison has come on leaps & bounds, and rides them berms leaning into the turns… 👏🏽 keep it up, Sam you’re ok as well 😆🤣

  • @burningatthetrailhead
    @burningatthetrailhead Месяц назад +3

    The mani assist 😂

  • @incredible5587
    @incredible5587 Месяц назад +3

    I love this crazy bike vids!!!

  • @roncri
    @roncri Месяц назад

    Love the purple paint job on the Canyon. Guessing that's custom.

  • @user-ev8pr8uo7h
    @user-ev8pr8uo7h Месяц назад

    Sam! I just went to the very bottom of your youtube, to your first video, and I didn't know that you invented the windshieldwiper, who would have thought it took until 2011 for someone to do a tailwhip to oppo tailwhip. and the first flat drop frontflip! and the first flair drop in! you should be so proud of your self knowing you were the first person out of 8 billion people to do all of that! love you, the literal best mountainbiker in existence!

  • @PersonalMemories.
    @PersonalMemories. Месяц назад

    Bit of an extreme test for a budget system!! Probably be fine for riding a few miles to the shops on proper roads!!

  • @Shorebreak_
    @Shorebreak_ Месяц назад

    Would love to see a canyon hard tail video to see the difference between a Grand Canyon 5 and Grand Canyon 7

  • @davidhadley6164
    @davidhadley6164 Месяц назад +7

    No suspension. No brakes. No problem. You would think Sam would have a better MTB lying around to fully send?❤

    • @2223jels
      @2223jels Месяц назад

      hes a plant this is a fix and he's also shilling $$$$ why wouldn't we question him. next sam in red pushing putin for president

    • @Prophes0r
      @Prophes0r Месяц назад +1

      He probably got it out of the garbage somewhere.

    • @SKBKER
      @SKBKER Месяц назад +1

      He did it because he is sponsored by canyon so chose a rubbish conversion kit .

  • @RippedHimself
    @RippedHimself Месяц назад

    I love the bike comparison videos some of my favourite content it sometimes makes me feel like I might need a better bike 😂 you got me into biking im able to do a few good jumps now keep these vids coming absolutely love them .❤

  • @remdanedz8685
    @remdanedz8685 Месяц назад +1

    iam from algeria ilove this channel

  • @brandoncampbell3432
    @brandoncampbell3432 Месяц назад

    ide love to see one of those new conversion kits (swift i think) the ones where its just a wheel with a powered hub. theyre like 400-500

  • @MaNNeRz91
    @MaNNeRz91 Месяц назад

    You should try the £350 2000w direct drive ebay kit. Only 48v but has plenty of poke to wheely up and down the road from a stand still

  • @jamestsmithiii4487
    @jamestsmithiii4487 Месяц назад

    you should get the canyon stoic and do heavy trail riding and urban downhill and some trickery. Push the hardtail to the limits. And this video is just incredible awesome video Sam.

  • @benchapman9667
    @benchapman9667 Месяц назад

    I've got a Raleigh Max HT3 if you want it to replace that Nitro. You can then have fun at Swinley Forest which is nearby.

  • @Jann1x_0
    @Jann1x_0 Месяц назад +1

    Now bring back the free bike challenge🥺🙏

  • @ashleytombs
    @ashleytombs Месяц назад

    Yeah Sam i’ve watched Sam virtually his whole Slopestyle career and I’ve never seen him scared of doing a Flip until this video must be in the top 3 scariest flips Sam is done
    How epic of a video would it be if Sam an Lewi build their own DIY E bike

  • @brianjoyce2731
    @brianjoyce2731 Месяц назад

    Love my single speed, inexpensive Radmission!

  • @chrisc7764
    @chrisc7764 Месяц назад

    I daresay a cleanly swapped DIY full sus bike competes with an emtb from a manufacturer. My Kona Stinky (BBS02, 52v, 27.5/26 mini mullet, Rohloff) keeps up with my buddies' Turbo Levo and Heckler no problem. I get 20 miles on a charge depending on my assist level, and the weight of the motor and battery isn't really an issue - it's about 52lbs total.

  • @user-ju9nj8sb9x
    @user-ju9nj8sb9x Месяц назад +1

    That's a weird conversion. Here they usually put a motor-wheel (at least that's how it's called in my language) at the back (or even at front).

  • @paulnormandin1926
    @paulnormandin1926 Месяц назад +1

    Does Allison have a channel? Would like to watch her progression.

  • @welshfinn1
    @welshfinn1 Месяц назад

    Amazing flip on the Raleigh..

  • @strat-ever
    @strat-ever Месяц назад

    What an unepic day... (you missed the usual 'Today is gonna be epic') - brilliant video btw.

  • @junka1975
    @junka1975 Месяц назад

    I do hope Alison did get some dinner. Now as to why Sam has to backflip a cheap E bike? Well it's because he's Sam Pilgrim, master of fun and mayhem on cheap bikes and he just knew Lewi would get the perfect shot of him doing it. Nice one Sam.

  • @martintramuntbikemallorcak481
    @martintramuntbikemallorcak481 Месяц назад

    My DIY eMTB looks just like your "Premium" one... (imo better though!) - So.... you can make exceptionally great eMTB's....but it's not for everyone..But if my eMTB is parked up outside the many rental shops I am associated with here, it's mine they ALL stop and look at.........I gotta admit, your DIY one here, I see many such things on the streets here...and they are chit!! haha - I just made my wife a nice flatbar eGravel bike...test rode it yesterday.... superb!!

  • @elvislad
    @elvislad Месяц назад +1

    @SamPilgrim love this no intro,straight into it style. No one gives a f$#k about seeing same intro time after time,yours though is...was sick as fuck. Yep people want straight into whatever the title says it is

  • @martinsv9183
    @martinsv9183 Месяц назад

    Would be interesting with the cheapest full suspension bike against the premium. Maybe retro fitted with more suitable tires if needed..

  • @spengler_mtb
    @spengler_mtb Месяц назад

    Sam please do more cheap v expensive
    It’s my favourite especially from you ❤

    • @SamPilgrim
      @SamPilgrim  Месяц назад +1

      Cheers dude, more coming!

  • @dr_ned_flanders
    @dr_ned_flanders Месяц назад +1

    Not really the same thing though are they? It is like comparing an SR-71 to a Cessna 150. However, for people going to the shops or just riding on normal roads. the cheap bike is a good option.

    • @DrNat1
      @DrNat1 Месяц назад

      Dweeb

    • @rym5810
      @rym5810 Месяц назад

      Both planes what you have just said, these are both bikes.. So yeah 90%pretty much the same

  • @FlyingMonk1912
    @FlyingMonk1912 Месяц назад

    It would be cool to see the evolution of E-MTB's. Get a Gen.1 vs 2024 model

  • @Yelnats87
    @Yelnats87 Месяц назад

    Atleast these tests confirm how good the top end e-bikes really are!

  • @ferociousdiablo
    @ferociousdiablo 23 дня назад

    Sam before Canyon: "It doesn't matter what bike you have" now its "Lets see what a real bike can do" Damn how things change eh?

  • @ruggugglan
    @ruggugglan Месяц назад

    Should have build one with the Bafang mid engine kit. Much more reliable.

  • @daslupus4303
    @daslupus4303 Месяц назад

    If you could have a throttle blip feature on the decent e bikes you could fully control pitch when in the air like on a mx bike.

  • @chrisball8178
    @chrisball8178 Месяц назад

    Your enthusiasm could bring back the dead 😂🎉

  • @philbrown8056
    @philbrown8056 Месяц назад

    Sam you are absolutely awesome on a bike.

  • @elusive323
    @elusive323 Месяц назад

    Rad vid man,would last me a bit longer I cant cutty like that haha.
    Look out for a cargo bike,im sure Louy would love to ride up front with the camera and keen to see one in mid air !

  • @Anubiz_SnK
    @Anubiz_SnK Месяц назад +1

    should I buy dartmoor hornet 2022? I mean is it a good bike if someone can tell me

  • @Traildude193
    @Traildude193 Месяц назад

    You should do a cheap e bike vs another 🔥 content as usual Sam keep it up

  • @lokodh
    @lokodh Месяц назад +2

    How hard is it to put the kit together

    • @brianpham2584
      @brianpham2584 Месяц назад

      Depends on your mechanical skills and the kit you're getting. If you got the skills, not hard, but it takes time fiddling with.

    • @paul340mopar
      @paul340mopar Месяц назад

      That conversion Blows. Even a Hub Drive Kit would be better than that. Mid-Drive is the way to go if you want to do an E-Bike Build. I've done several with the Bafang Mid-Drive, and with an aftermarket Controller and 72v Battery you can Fly!

  • @Thingamajigs
    @Thingamajigs Месяц назад

    A moderate ebike conversion comparison would be better.
    At least a decent mtb frame (full suspension) with eletric conversion vs the expensive emtb brand.

  • @Tron_Funkin_Blow
    @Tron_Funkin_Blow Месяц назад

    Eye opening investigation.

  • @Yanirop
    @Yanirop Месяц назад

    can you do a urban downhill video please, thank you, ps you are the best mtb biker.

  • @ZachHibbsNZ
    @ZachHibbsNZ Месяц назад +1

    Hey can you do a calab with mat jones?

  • @keroro77
    @keroro77 Месяц назад

    i just love this dude. how could you not.

  • @charlespendley6360
    @charlespendley6360 Месяц назад +1

    I mean, when a bike is as much as a car, it should be unstoppable. Even better when sam gets all his expensive bikes free.

    • @kevinburke1325
      @kevinburke1325 Месяц назад

      The bike is not as much as a car smh.

  • @nastripk531
    @nastripk531 Месяц назад +1

    Sending it as always 😂😂

  • @clintstoner13680
    @clintstoner13680 Месяц назад

    Wait ... is the "cheap" bike in the video really ~$800+ (new)? Oof ... seems like a fairly expensive sport if entry level requires a $1K+ investment. Still, very cool and highly entertaining.

  • @Grundy_nunley
    @Grundy_nunley Месяц назад +1

    Sam you know you can get a Walmart bike pot good forks wheels and tires be just as good as a 7k bike

  • @maxpohl1598
    @maxpohl1598 Месяц назад

    You got champion skills and you're so funny 😊

  • @gamndoodbrewing8636
    @gamndoodbrewing8636 Месяц назад

    The flip! Stomped! 🍻

  • @BobThe1st
    @BobThe1st Месяц назад

    Would be fun to see you try a mate x bike 🤘

  • @master99321
    @master99321 Месяц назад

    Great video, quick question where is this track in the uk?

  • @Reuben-vx7qk
    @Reuben-vx7qk Месяц назад +1

    I LOVE THESE VIDS THERE EPIC

  • @beanmaster-xc2qf
    @beanmaster-xc2qf Месяц назад +1

    Why don't you get two of the same bike then do expensive e-bike conversion kit versus a cheap e-bike conversion kit

  • @TNWWDGTFilms
    @TNWWDGTFilms Месяц назад

    Purple beast with sam, versus "average rider" on a surron type e bike

  • @mopedtobias9049
    @mopedtobias9049 Месяц назад

    Can you please try riding a mountainbike where the fat tires are pressured with water instead of air?

  • @stocky1042
    @stocky1042 Месяц назад

    My god. A Raleigh nitro. My first ever MTB 😂😂

  • @mathewhicks2998
    @mathewhicks2998 Месяц назад

    Got a canyon strive on and if you're thinking of getting a canyon I wouldn't bother,had to send it back twice for problems with the battery,the bikes still not working properly and I've still got another year of warranty and now they're not getting back to me

  • @brucefowler3371
    @brucefowler3371 Месяц назад

    Sam you are amazing and so fun to watch

  • @kerrytodd3901
    @kerrytodd3901 Месяц назад

    Heated words can work wonders especially if you have a hammer in the toolbox 😅

  • @sixtysecondsofstephens2386
    @sixtysecondsofstephens2386 Месяц назад

    Got to be the ultimate bike you've flipped. Balls of steel, had visions of the chain coming off again and catching up.

  • @xricsi1097
    @xricsi1097 Месяц назад

    The only challenge this built bike can handle properly is to transport you from A to B in the town.

  • @topelite666
    @topelite666 Месяц назад

    DIY will always be superior to prefab, but the problem is by the time youve perfected your DIY it will be way more money and time and hassle than the normal person is willing to put up with lol

  • @korak2895
    @korak2895 Месяц назад

    Can you do this race against a Bafang 750w or 1000w

  • @Shadow15FN
    @Shadow15FN 20 дней назад

    What is the wattage on that ebike the canyon

  • @christo930
    @christo930 Месяц назад +8

    What's "sketchy" about cantilever brakes? Cantilever rim brakes are perfectly fine, especially in dry conditions.

    • @64Spokes
      @64Spokes Месяц назад +7

      Compared to 4 piston hydraulics they’re sketchy

    • @christo930
      @christo930 Месяц назад

      @@64Spokes Look, if you said hydraulic brakes are better or that rim brakes are not the greatest for downhill mountain biking, I would agree. OTOH, the whole bike is completely unsuited for mountain biking.
      But for ordinary bicycle usage, cantilever rim brakes are more than adequate. Even for really basic mountain biking, what was done in this video is also more than adequate.
      Also, I am not all convinced that 4 piston brakes are any better (than standard hydraulic disc brakes). Even most cars have single piston disc brakes. To upgrade them to a better system really wouldn't be any better without power brakes (which are pretty much standard today). I am not entirely opposed to them, but I would really want to see some real world tests to be convinced they are any better.

    • @user-wk1dn9fs4r
      @user-wk1dn9fs4r Месяц назад +1

      @@christo930 more stopping power...

  • @lecolintube
    @lecolintube Месяц назад

    12:16 🤣🤣🤣 no, only ‘you can do flips’ on a £160 ridged e-bike 🤯 that flip was unreal! 🤩🙌

  • @gethappycyclingcampingoutdoors
    @gethappycyclingcampingoutdoors Месяц назад

    Awesome ✌️❤to the World.

  • @D4RKW0LF_91
    @D4RKW0LF_91 Месяц назад

    Love it 🤟🔥

  • @shadeofthenightttv3052
    @shadeofthenightttv3052 Месяц назад

    "these tires have endless grip!" 1.5 seconds later he's on the ground. i laughed so hard.
    thats what i call INSTANT KARMA!.
    but back to topic, i wonder what power these bikes have in the US or UK.
    in Germany (or EU in general) you're limited to 250W nominal power, and 25 km/h pedal assisted high-speed (above 25, its only muscle power, no motor)

  • @pukeylukey8538
    @pukeylukey8538 Месяц назад

    Would love to have an e-bike 😂

  • @XxXalir
    @XxXalir Месяц назад

    it looks like my communion bike lol. No it looks like it's gonna blow 🤣 so many cables wt?Canyon is the dream!

  • @kiwicami287
    @kiwicami287 Месяц назад

    Sam will literally flip anything

  • @jasonkroll2735
    @jasonkroll2735 Месяц назад

    Get the $7000 FMX 2500 WATT

  • @mauricebruns1028
    @mauricebruns1028 Месяц назад

    Who bought dinner in the end? And did anyone miss out on dinner 😂

  • @Rafski
    @Rafski Месяц назад +2

    Even before video starts from just the thumbnail i can simply say that cheaper DIY is waaaaay better than this expensive one simply because it's easier to fix/replace parts, in that expensive bike you have weak motor and battery that you cannot replace for a price of a used car. Only one positive thing about the expensive bike is that it looks better which is not worth for the price and lack of replacements in future.

    • @thethingwithit
      @thethingwithit Месяц назад +2

      You have never rode a bicycle in your life.

    • @SamPilgrim
      @SamPilgrim  Месяц назад +2

      @@thethingwithit😂😂

    • @Rafski
      @Rafski Месяц назад

      @@thethingwithit That's your statement, but I'm building ebikes for my clients for a few years now and from my experience all I can shortly recommend is to not buy factory ebikes, unless you don't plan to upgrade bike at all and don't mind to throw away when the battery dies. I can't blame Sam for it due to a contract with the canyon, it would look sad for them and boring as a video if compared to ebikes in the same price range. For this price you get a pretty solid monster bike that eats this "premium" looking ebike in terms of performance, access to spare parts/electronics and probably appearance.

    • @jjjones2244
      @jjjones2244 Месяц назад

      Mate, you DO NOT build bikes. Stop talking all that shite. Throw away the bike when the battery dies? Wtf are you even talking about? Like the whole bike? Emtb batteries are easily replaceable, as are all of their components. Quick talking nonsense, you utter scummy little troll. ​@Rafski

    • @jjjones2244
      @jjjones2244 Месяц назад

      ​@@Rafskiabsolute trolling

  • @kevinmortimer1883
    @kevinmortimer1883 Месяц назад

    what a fun video ❤

  • @mellloman3417
    @mellloman3417 Месяц назад

    You should try a gas bike conversion, you can get them for $100

    • @thelord7627
      @thelord7627 Месяц назад

      sure he already has done a gas powered one🎉

  • @TopWorld-pq9ff
    @TopWorld-pq9ff Месяц назад

    I love your vids your the goat 🐐

  • @FishingWithRoman27
    @FishingWithRoman27 Месяц назад

    I love your videos

  • @Sustrii
    @Sustrii 12 дней назад

    Sam since you are the face of canyon for quite some time now, how do you justify the fluctuation in prices of your brand?
    Another thing how can you guys justify the prices of a e bicycle be on the same ball park has a 250 4 stroke knowing that they are also over priced? is just a case of milk the cow while you can?