Excellent! VDH is answering questions I've wondered about for a long time regarding Western Civilization. So clear and insightful. I'm eating this up like a hungry wayfarer who just found some sustaining and delicious food!
Awesome! He explained the vast differences of Sparta and Athens and then put those two polar opposites together like the Romans and America. And it all made sense!
Thank you VHD. I have several of your books. You helped me develop an appreciation for western culture. How different the streets of Portland, Seattle, Chicago, etc would be nowadays (summer 2020) if this was taught in high schools and colleges.
notes, 14:40 senate. is something to refine decisions from impulsive. The solution is in the balance of athenian and spartan, liberal and conservative. 15:01 the system was called republic. preclude the abuse of power. The problem of corrupt power. balance is three point, not two. the left, the right, and center.
Messenia waged war on Sparta, Hanson omits this part of history. If Sparta wasn't victorious against the Messenians, the Messenians may have been victorious against Sparta. It was this struggle for survival in constant wars that shaped Sparta. Its funny, Sparta always gets a bad rap, seems they are still victim to Athenian Propaganda. Athens at her height held more slaves than Sparta and Sparta was a good ally to its peers where as Athens ruled over its allies through an oppressive imperialism. Interestingly America's government mirrors that of Sparta more than Athens. Both these great cities our are heritage and the world is better for them both. These two city-states made each other better too. I lament so many small minded people of today to consign either to their narrow bigoted cultural relativism that seems so poplar today. That is pure ignorance.
Women in Sparta had ownership . Even in divorce a woman cold keep her fortune intact . Sparta is very falsely described by historians also Athens recovered because Sparta allowed ti to happen . The allies of Sparta (Thebes and corinth ) demanded that Athens must become a place for sheep and cattle. and that every memory of Athens must be erased from history . But spartan disagreed saying that " We will not make Greece limp" (meaning that Athens was one of the two pillars of Greeks) . and thus Athens was allowed to survive
It looks like a coven to me. Look up that Macarena dance back in 1996; in some versions the audio saying "I'm not trying to seduce you" is censored out. From what has unfold as of late, I no longer believe it was harmless fun.
The major problem sparta had was that they never evolved. Whereas athens did. Sparta never like changed but kept to status quote. It was her down fall.
Oversimplification and misleading...in many ways but here are a few....Athens also had an infantry and it was arguably as good.....Sparta had a navy and bested the athenians on more than one occasion....the spartas had the sciences and imagination and are known for their "laconian" wit, brevity....athenians also had slavery, a type at least, in the Delian league......I dont think the Romans were all that imaginative.....and you leave out the fact that much of greek thinking was held outside of the mainland in the ionian islands and anatolian coast.....very misleading
Any political scientist past or present will agree that a republican form of government depends on a virtuous people. Since a republic is immortal, at least in the sense that a jellyfish is immortal, a virtuous people will often found one; only to find that a century or two later it has fallen into the hands of their vain, godless, dissolute descendants. Fewer prophets preach to these descendants on how to escape from a republic they are too weak to operate. Not least because only the virtuous would listen. No-generally, the prophets just go full Jeremiah. Again, the System is the Republic-from a different perspective. The System is real, just as the Republic is real. The ceremonial processes of the Republic continue in force. The operational procedures of the System have the power in their hands. We can imagine a System that no longer needed the old ceremonies The Republic is a shell. Any shell can be cast aside-so long as its protection is no longer needed. The System did not kill the Republic. Caesar did not kill the Roman Republic. He saved it, as best he could. For many centuries there were still consuls and a Senate. He certainly saved Rome. The Empire at its best worked quite well. Same with the System There is just nothing historically weird about the System. It’s a normal thing. It’s also an old thing. It does not seem to be functioning perfectly at present. In fact, it seems to be deteriorating, and there is no obvious way to repair it. Regime change is always possible-and always dangerous. At best, a change of regime is the rescue and renewal of a nation. At worst, a disorderly transition in sovereignty is arbitrarily catastrophic. It is easy to imagine regimes far better than the System; or far worse. Nor can we merely cast out the System. We cannot imagine a live Republic no longer animated by this guest. All organs of the Republic have become organs of the System. The Republic without the System is an empty shell, home to neither snail nor crab. Since nature and sovereignty both abhor a vacuum, the Republic is not a description of a complete and operational regime. Some other sea-creature would have to move in. In any situation in which any sovereign organ, individual or collective, is inherently incapable, from intellect or temperament, of exercising its legitimate responsibilities, those responsibilities will be raptured, covertly or overtly, by some other power. Scottish history is particularly notorious for the use of child-kings as mascots for coalitions of rapacious earls. This rapture is exactly what the System has done with the Republic-not temporarily. Children grow up. Decaying societies decay more. And an etiolated republic has a harder and harder time in holding any significant popular attention-a vicious cycle. The reason the next regime cannot be the Republic is that the next regime starts right away with the people it actually has. The next regime does not have the privilege, like early New England, of ruling a homogeneous society of staunch Puritan pilgrims. It is ruling a population without the culture, habit, or capacity to in any real way rule itself. America, the birthplace of democracy, is no longer suited to democracy. It happens. Better to know it than to keep pretending. History can go on. It must and will go on. We realized this truth, in the shape of our institutions, four generations ago. It is long past time for us to admit it openly to each other. But on a social graph, America today looks more like a refugee camp than a stable and thriving national community. And the men in this camp are Nietzsche’s last men, CS Lewis’s men without chests. If the Republic did not exist, no one would invent it. It is not just that this refugee camp would operate the vehicle badly. It is that they are too weak to operate it at all-so it will be taken from them. As it has been. So any plan involving permanently returning power to the American people is not a practical plan. True: every regime in history-every dynasty, every republic, even every church-has considered itself immortal. True: there’s a first time for everything. But
10 COMMANDMENTS #4 HONER MY SABBATH DAY AND KEEP IT HOLY!!! DO YOU KNOW WHAT DAY IS GOD'S SABBATH? IT IS THE LAST DAY OF THE WEEK WHICH IS SATURDAY. WHO THEN ARE WE WORSHIPING? SATAN'S SUNDAY???
Actually universal citizenship was granted to all subjects of Rome in 212 AD with the Edict of Caracalla. Prior to that only a man born of both parents as citizens was a citizen of Rome. This was the Spartan model. It is from this concept of citizenship that the idea of a “natural born” citizen is derived and incorporated into the US Constitution as a requirement for the presidency. It is this requirement that obama and now harris do not satisfy. Obama is the only president that failed to meet this constitutional requirement and he was an illegitimate president who must be called to account.
@@Mavo936 If you read the Federalist Papers you will see that the Constitution was modeled after the Roman Republic and not English common law. That is the reason we have a Senate and not a House of Lords. And the reason we do not have a parliament. Although certain aspects of English laws such as contract law and property law were adopted from English common law, the form of government including the structure of the executive branch was modeled after the Roman Republic. Hence the concept of a “natural born citizen” as a requirement for president.
@@ngeorgalis1 Interesting point, but I would like to remark two details. Is there a difference between a Senate and a House of Lords, legislatively speaking? One could also argue about the structure of the executive branch. I would have said that I miss the most prominent and well-known Roman positions such as consulship. What would the similarities be? Besides the point; 'natural born citizen' would have been an awful requirement, as that would mean the US would have been without legitimate politicians for its first two generations.
@@Mavo936 If you read the Constitution natural born citizenship was granted to all at the time the Constitution was ratified. Also if you read the Federalist Papers you will see that the idea of a natural born citizen, i.e. where both parents are citizens at time of birth arose from the Roman Republic idea of loyalty to the nation. A man whose parents were both citizens was less likely to have divided loyalties between the country of his mother and father. The fear was that such a man might be elected and betray the nation. Indeed the fear materialized when obama was elected as his actions were all directed toward the betrayal of this nation to it enemies. He obviously was more loyal to the land and religion of his father than to the nation that elected him.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
These should air on tv every other week as PSA.
Good luck on that, the masses will always be the masses ;()
Excellent! VDH is answering questions I've wondered about for a long time regarding Western Civilization. So clear and insightful. I'm eating this up like a hungry wayfarer who just found some sustaining and delicious food!
Awesome! He explained the vast differences of Sparta and Athens and then put those two polar opposites together like the Romans and America. And it all made sense!
Love Victor Davis Hanson.
I never thought of Sparta/Athens this way before, Thank you.
He made Western history into footnotes to American ideologies and imperialism. A great job!
Dr VDH is a national treasure imo.
Dr. VDH is a personal treasure! I am immensely grateful to have as much access to him as I do.
Thank you VHD. I have several of your books. You helped me develop an appreciation for western culture.
How different the streets of Portland, Seattle, Chicago, etc would be nowadays (summer 2020) if this was taught in high schools and colleges.
Why is this not shown on 'PBS', Discovery Channel, etc.? It's this type of programming that's badly needed today.
Because it's utter anachronistic nonsense, bringing a modern day narrative to an unsuited environment
This is the education that our youth should be receiving, not the 1619 project.
An utter lack of education might be better still, if we want to instill conservative and christian values
One reason the Founders/Framers gave us A Republic (if you can keep it) is they had read their Machiavelli.
@sablin
Why do you say that? You might want to read The Discourses on Titus Livy.
@@stevenwiederholt7000 You're throwing pearls before swine.
@@falcon5467
It give me something to do. :-)
it's a shame this is not being taught in our Public Schools
Your channel is incredible.
Very enjoyable.
notes,
14:40 senate. is something to refine decisions from impulsive.
The solution is in the balance of athenian and spartan, liberal and conservative.
15:01 the system was called republic.
preclude the abuse of power. The problem of corrupt power.
balance is three point, not two. the left, the right, and center.
Important.
The man is a National Treasure..
good job
Messenia waged war on Sparta, Hanson omits this part of history. If Sparta wasn't victorious against the Messenians, the Messenians may have been victorious against Sparta. It was this struggle for survival in constant wars that shaped Sparta.
Its funny, Sparta always gets a bad rap, seems they are still victim to Athenian Propaganda. Athens at her height held more slaves than Sparta and Sparta was a good ally to its peers where as Athens ruled over its allies through an oppressive imperialism. Interestingly America's government mirrors that of Sparta more than Athens.
Both these great cities our are heritage and the world is better for them both. These two city-states made each other better too. I lament so many small minded people of today to consign either to their narrow bigoted cultural relativism that seems so poplar today. That is pure ignorance.
thank you for your insight!
ty
VDH is a national treasure
Bibliography on Athens, Sparta and the US republic?
I love VDH
Women in Sparta had ownership .
Even in divorce a woman cold keep her fortune intact .
Sparta is very falsely described by historians
also Athens recovered because Sparta allowed ti to happen .
The allies of Sparta (Thebes and corinth ) demanded that Athens must become a place for sheep and cattle. and that every memory of Athens must be erased from history .
But spartan disagreed saying that " We will not make Greece limp" (meaning that Athens was one of the two pillars of Greeks) . and thus Athens was allowed to survive
The Democratic Party consists of the worst of Atherns and the worst of Sparta.
It looks like a coven to me. Look up that Macarena dance back in 1996; in some versions the audio saying "I'm not trying to seduce you" is censored out. From what has unfold as of late, I no longer believe it was harmless fun.
sablin
Your comment shows he’s right! 😁
Wow. And what is your proposal? A one-party political system? You have that in China and Cuba. Do you want to live in environments like those?
@Ken Shearson yeah... the egg or the chicken first.
I think this is a fair assessment.
The major problem sparta had was that they never evolved. Whereas athens did. Sparta never like changed but kept to status quote.
It was her down fall.
Sooooo, the dream of Athens was to achieve something Sparta had, Hum........interesting hehe
everything was good until he said "we are not a democracy". Luckily he contradicted himself later by saying "we are both".
Constitutional Republic is no democracy
Oversimplification and misleading...in many ways but here are a few....Athens also had an infantry and it was arguably as good.....Sparta had a navy and bested the athenians on more than one occasion....the spartas had the sciences and imagination and are known for their "laconian" wit, brevity....athenians also had slavery, a type at least, in the Delian league......I dont think the Romans were all that imaginative.....and you leave out the fact that much of greek thinking was held outside of the mainland in the ionian islands and anatolian coast.....very misleading
We have runaway individualism.
Any political scientist past or present will agree that a republican form of government depends on a virtuous people. Since a republic is immortal, at least in the sense that a jellyfish is immortal, a virtuous people will often found one; only to find that a century or two later it has fallen into the hands of their vain, godless, dissolute descendants.
Fewer prophets preach to these descendants on how to escape from a republic they are too weak to operate. Not least because only the virtuous would listen. No-generally, the prophets just go full Jeremiah.
Again, the System is the Republic-from a different perspective. The System is real, just as the Republic is real. The ceremonial processes of the Republic continue in force. The operational procedures of the System have the power in their hands. We can imagine a System that no longer needed the old ceremonies The Republic is a shell. Any shell can be cast aside-so long as its protection is no longer needed.
The System did not kill the Republic. Caesar did not kill the Roman Republic. He saved it, as best he could. For many centuries there were still consuls and a Senate. He certainly saved Rome. The Empire at its best worked quite well. Same with the System
There is just nothing historically weird about the System. It’s a normal thing. It’s also an old thing. It does not seem to be functioning perfectly at present. In fact, it seems to be deteriorating, and there is no obvious way to repair it.
Regime change is always possible-and always dangerous. At best, a change of regime is the rescue and renewal of a nation. At worst, a disorderly transition in sovereignty is arbitrarily catastrophic. It is easy to imagine regimes far better than the System; or far worse.
Nor can we merely cast out the System. We cannot imagine a live Republic no longer animated by this guest. All organs of the Republic have become organs of the System. The Republic without the System is an empty shell, home to neither snail nor crab. Since nature and sovereignty both abhor a vacuum, the Republic is not a description of a complete and operational regime. Some other sea-creature would have to move in.
In any situation in which any sovereign organ, individual or collective, is inherently incapable, from intellect or temperament, of exercising its legitimate responsibilities, those responsibilities will be raptured, covertly or overtly, by some other power. Scottish history is particularly notorious for the use of child-kings as mascots for coalitions of rapacious earls.
This rapture is exactly what the System has done with the Republic-not temporarily. Children grow up. Decaying societies decay more. And an etiolated republic has a harder and harder time in holding any significant popular attention-a vicious cycle.
The reason the next regime cannot be the Republic is that the next regime starts right away with the people it actually has. The next regime does not have the privilege, like early New England, of ruling a homogeneous society of staunch Puritan pilgrims. It is ruling a population without the culture, habit, or capacity to in any real way rule itself.
America, the birthplace of democracy, is no longer suited to democracy. It happens. Better to know it than to keep pretending. History can go on. It must and will go on. We realized this truth, in the shape of our institutions, four generations ago. It is long past time for us to admit it openly to each other.
But on a social graph, America today looks more like a refugee camp than a stable and thriving national community. And the men in this camp are Nietzsche’s last men, CS Lewis’s men without chests. If the Republic did not exist, no one would invent it.
It is not just that this refugee camp would operate the vehicle badly. It is that they are too weak to operate it at all-so it will be taken from them. As it has been. So any plan involving permanently returning power to the American people is not a practical plan.
True: every regime in history-every dynasty, every republic, even every church-has considered itself immortal. True: there’s a first time for everything. But
Athens against Socrates
Sparta wasn't as disciplined as they think. I think militarily they may have been but they were also debauched megamaniacs.
Free movies
The.living.word.
Spiritual truth.
Christ.who.i.am
10 COMMANDMENTS #4 HONER MY SABBATH DAY AND KEEP IT HOLY!!! DO YOU
KNOW WHAT DAY IS GOD'S SABBATH? IT IS THE LAST DAY OF THE WEEK WHICH IS
SATURDAY. WHO THEN ARE WE WORSHIPING? SATAN'S SUNDAY???
Athens won because it had walls and Sparta did not.
The mob rules
I'm like number 400
Actually universal citizenship was granted to all subjects of Rome in 212 AD with the Edict of Caracalla. Prior to that only a man born of both parents as citizens was a citizen of Rome. This was the Spartan model. It is from this concept of citizenship that the idea of a “natural born” citizen is derived and incorporated into the US Constitution as a requirement for the presidency. It is this requirement that obama and now harris do not satisfy. Obama is the only president that failed to meet this constitutional requirement and he was an illegitimate president who must be called to account.
But Anglo-saxon law is different from Roman law and its subsidiaries... Why would the concept of naturally born matter then?
@@Mavo936 If you read the Federalist Papers you will see that the Constitution was modeled after the Roman Republic and not English common law. That is the reason we have a Senate and not a House of Lords. And the reason we do not have a parliament. Although certain aspects of English laws such as contract law and property law were adopted from English common law, the form of government including the structure of the executive branch was modeled after the Roman Republic. Hence the concept of a “natural born citizen” as a requirement for president.
@@ngeorgalis1 Interesting point, but I would like to remark two details. Is there a difference between a Senate and a House of Lords, legislatively speaking? One could also argue about the structure of the executive branch. I would have said that I miss the most prominent and well-known Roman positions such as consulship. What would the similarities be? Besides the point; 'natural born citizen' would have been an awful requirement, as that would mean the US would have been without legitimate politicians for its first two generations.
@@Mavo936 If you read the Constitution natural born citizenship was granted to all at the time the Constitution was ratified. Also if you read the Federalist Papers you will see that the idea of a natural born citizen, i.e. where both parents are citizens at time of birth arose from the Roman Republic idea of loyalty to the nation. A man whose parents were both citizens was less likely to have divided loyalties between the country of his mother and father. The fear was that such a man might be elected and betray the nation. Indeed the fear materialized when obama was elected as his actions were all directed toward the betrayal of this nation to it enemies. He obviously was more loyal to the land and religion of his father than to the nation that elected him.
@@Mavo936 Read the Federalist Papers and the Constitution. You need an education.
Now let's become Roman Catholic to the core
@Zeljko Trifunovic what I'd ball religion are you involved in?
VDH is an American treasure.