The so-called "negative" Top Tens are usually my favorite to watch. I watch you mostly for entertainment and laughs and those provide plenty of both. I don't even know how many times I've watched your "Top 10 games not to play with angry people", it's such a classic.
The "negative" Top Tens aren't just more entertaining, for me they are also more useful in finding games I would like! I've found that my tastes are very different from Zee and Tom (only aligning when it comes to gateway games), so if I see them not like a game, that catches my interest. It's been proven a few times that I really like games they don't like!
I've been meaning to say how nice the numbered transition scenes using the various game components are. Whoever put those together deserves some kudos.
Man alive. I’ve been out of the BG scene for awhile because of time constraints and personal life stuff (I guess probably a few months before Sam left). And since I haven’t been playing, I haven’t been watching Dice Tower (too painful to see what you can’t have). I come back and the production level is off the charts. Dice Tower has really grown in the last few years. Keep it up, you guys rock! Also it’s great to watch a Dice Tower Top 10. I didn’t realize how much I missed this.
Thanks again for all these wonderful top 10's this year, just like every other year. I enjoy listening to these and I also appreciate the variety of choices and opinions. Thanks for the hilarious banter.
Wow - you’ve saved us so much frustration and $$ - 🙏🙏🙏 many thanks! Please do this before Black Friday - it would be such a good reminder/helper - I’m a newbie and soaking it all in.
Jasco is actually doing exactly what they suggested with Megaman to fix it - they're getting LVL99 to basically completely redesign it - and hopefully honour original backers with some kind of discount. This is actually a great partnership because LVL99 releases fantastic designs but tends to make production mistakes and cheap out a little, while Jasco is all production value. I'm excited to try whatever comes of this.
I agree that we don't want too much negativity, but at the same time, this kind of list helps us know which games to watch out for. That's especially true here, where we might be lured in by other aspects.
This and "Beautiful on the inside" were two of the most entertaining videos Dice Tower has ever put out. XD Parting thoughts: Wingspan Backlash is real. If I ever see that Mega Man game for dirt cheap, I'll buy it just for the minis and throw the rest away. Zee hates point salad (as he made abundantly clear in the Pulsar playthrough video). I only own 3/30 of these - all Zee's picks - so I don't feel too bad about myself.
Mine would be “Mice and Mystics,” and I never see anyone else talk about its problems. I love the theme - it definitely feels like playing inside a Redwall book. And it’s beautiful. But the mechanics are not fun - there’s a lot of imprecision and it all comes down to dice rolling
@@sixsmith7653, I even tried it solo with a bunch of house rules people suggested on BGG, as a last attempt to make it work, so I could experience the story. But halfway through the session, I quit because it felt like work, and I wasn’t having fun. Finally culled it from the collection.
When my friends and I play Dead of Winter we completely ignore the traitor cards (mostly because I was the traitor so often I used to get exiled immediately after the game started)
Thanks for a great vid! A bit of a hot take (from someone who couldn't care less about the IP or VGs): Dark Souls is one of the best solo board games I've ever played. The problem is, everything you are given to make it feasible to scrape by in the solo game is handled completely different in higher player counts. Because you're given more "souls" to start solo you can usually find something in the loot to give you a leg up. It's much less likely to happen right away in higher player counts and it can just as easily become a slog where you get insanely high level loot that you never live long enough to use. I agree that you shouldn't *have* to house rule, but simply tiering the loot deck or allowing more souls at the start makes all the difference for this one.
Yeah, I play the Dark Souls Board Game exclusively solo and love it. I do play with some house rules, most of them having to do with how treasure is handled because I think that's the biggest flaw. I don't play with multiple people anymore, so I don't increase the souls dropped per encounter, but I have heard that's a popular one. I don't tier out the treasure, but I might start, honestly. I usually just separate the treasure into category decks(equipment, spells, upgrade stones, etc.) and lay out a shop from each deck, but I guess I could take it a step further and maybe separate equipment into weapons and armor or tiers.
The real problem with those games is the extremely limited progression and lack of true, linked campaign style play. There just aren't enough character levels, powers, or piles of gear to be gained. It's barely more complicated than HeroQuest. The system should allow levelling to at least 10, and have better rules for creating campaigns out of multiple sets. It just seems like a massive wasted opportunity to me, that whole line of games the way they made them. They could be made to be a lot better without being too much more complicated.
@@MegaSilver Yeah I have played the newer ones a bit, only on TTS tho. The campaign structure is better, I guess? Still, the main issue for me is lack of character progression. There just isn't enough character growth to look forward to in those games, even the newer ones with their cap of level 4, and their insubstantial piles of power and item cards. They aren't bad games. There are just a bunch of games I would rather play these days than any of those. I still think it's a missed opportunity to create a much more flexible, robust system of playing D&D in the guise of a faster paced board game. Personally, I wish they would reboot the series with the goal of creating long term campaign experiences and deep character progression. At least, that is what I would want from a D&D board game and pretty much any dungeon crawler.
This was great to watch. It was also painful to watch: reliving those painful epiphanies of the pretty games you backed on Kickstarter turning out to be stinkers. I backed Island of El Dorado and Batman, and they've been valuable lessons on me NOT to back new unestablished kickstarters.
One thing that can be said for Ki We Tin is that it is quite fun with young kids. Useful to teach basic maths. Sadly yeah, the rules are quite simple and the game wasn't tested enough (tiny mouse wins much more often than the large mouse from the trend we see). The event cards (you get 3 for the race) do add some minor tactical decisions, but not enough.
With the D&D games, there's one monster that you can avoid indefinitely, because he only attacks adjacent heroes, but he never moves adjacent! Also, there's a lot of sameness to the scenarios (only the main bad guy really changes). I don't hate the games, though.
I love that Tom put Dark Souls on this list, because I just watched his review again yesterday before deciding if I wanted to buy my friend's copy, and he saved me!!!
ahahah. I Love Dead of Winter. But I love it with the variant that there is no traitor. Play advanced goals and in order to win everyone needs to get their personal goal too. But you aren’t allowed to talk about your personal goals.
Why can't you talk about your personal goals? The only reason they exist is to make people suspicious of other players or provide cover for the traitor. Without a traitor who cares about the personal goals?
@@dolphycj it’s just another challenge to make getting the end game more difficult. We are really good at the game and tend to win most of the time. This adds more challenge to the game.
Street Fighter: The Miniatures Game. Such a great game design but if you only got the Core Box, very disappointing. I went all in on the KS & absolutely love it. So many ways to play & so many characters to choose from.
Mike you are 100% right about Massive Darkness - what a stinker! I went all in in the kickstarter back in the day and OMG it was like they didn't even play test the game. We sunk hours into it hoping it was just our interpretation of the rules but nope - it's just a terrible game. Hardcore defenders of the game will say you need to house rule the hell out of it - but I was so upset I sold my copy on ebay (admittedly for a very good price). Great miniatures though.
I agree that MD1 is terrible; however, MD2 fixes a lot of issues with the game and it has been a lot of fun. It is still a CMON game so those issues are still present. The classes are unique and fun, the missions are interesting, and the models are gorgeous. The black dice can be painful but easily mitigated. I would suggest giving MD2 a try on TTS to see if you would like it, but it is a significantly better game.
100% agree about Treasure Island. It’s essentially “Euclidean Geometry: The Board Game”, except that in geometry you actually accomplish something interesting. Such a letdown.
I love Vladimír Suchý’s games, and I had a good first experience with Pulsar 2849, even though I went with a “structures” strategy and lost. But the second time was different. The game has a bunch of technologies and structures that are different each time you set the game up. The second game, someone just did all the spinning gyros, paying no attention to the techs or the structures (basically, doing the things that are the same in every game) and that player won handily, and it made most of the game seem purposeless. It was such a letdown!
I think tabletop really oversold Dead of Winter to the masses. It took some very funny personalities being very silly just to make that game work, and somehow everyone decided that being silly about your background and motives during a zombie apocalypse was “thematic”
I love the fact that they are willing to make videos that are NOT all sunshine and rainbows. I respect the Dice Tower's opinions more than anyone else's in part for their willingness to make videos like this. Keep it up....Okay, I LOVE the Buck Rogers appearance! Man, it's been a long time. Love that game, though. I also really love Island of El Dorado. It's not nearly as bad as they were saying in this video. There's a high learning curve, but that game is underrated in my mind. Also, Seafall SUUUUUUUCKED. I totally agree with that pick from the people.
Recently discovered the dice tower and really enjoying watching these top 10 videos 😊 However, like the ones on best covers, I definitely don’t have the same opinion of « beautiful » as Tom and Zee (phoenix????)😂
Tragedy Looper is great but I got rid of it because everyone I showed it to was immediately turned off it. It’s not even that hard a concept - it’s just a competitive deduction game with a bit of bluffing. A bit like Mr Jack one player/team is trying to arrange the board so they can deduce information, whilst the other is trying to delay them as long as possible. The deducing team gets a certain number of attempts to figure it out. That’s basically it
Here are some "take-that ish" replacement suggestions: - Stabby - Heavy on the pain reversals - Giddy meanness - Dog pillsy (because in my experience dogs dont like to take their pills)
Not surprised how many of these were kickstarters. Kickstarter is about hype and looking good and does not reward time spent on quality of gameplay. If a game is kickstartered, I'll ignore it for at least a year and see if the people who've played it say it's worthwhile.
It would be great if Dice Tower would put a list either in the description or at the end of the video. I really like their reviews, their opinions are well-founded, but I don't always have the time to watch for a whole hour! Consider it guys?
Yeah, i saw the choices on facebook and was confused by them. Although I’ve heard Tapestry is pretty lackluster, but it looks nice. Ive never played it though.
1:19:28 - Just curious, how much/little did you three enjoy The Batman: Animated Series game with the campaign based on episodes from the show and your partners sharing your dice rolls?
I picked up Seafall earlier this year for $16 sealed. I know the game isn’t great, and I don’t have the bar set high, but for $16 it is worth a gamble. I’m also aware that interest tends to drop after game 7 or 8. That being said, so far my three kids (ages 14-23) and I have enjoyed it a lot so far. I have spent more than $16 on games that have been less enjoyable.
Yeah, I felt like this a few games in when I played it too but it just sputtered out for us like so many others have said. It just doesn't evolve enough.
As someone who puts Tragedy Looper at the top of their favorite games list… Zee isn’t entirely wrong. Those of us who like it love it, but it is not an easy game to understand. It needs a more streamlined version with much clearer rules.
As someone who really wants to like Tragedy Looper, he missed the biggest problem. It's a all against one game that puts SO much on the "one" that means the play is so uneven. That combined with hard to understand rules makes the game too hard to get to the table. Do you as the owner always play the "one"? If they have a good time do you let them try being the one, knowing how easy it is to screw up?
The whole time watching this, I kept thinking of Heroes Wanted. I kickstarted the game and was so excited. It was beautiful. Man, do I hate that game. Sold it after 2 plays.
I'm surprised no one named Dark World. I like it because I bought it when I was young and it brings back memories, but people dont like it. The production quality is great, with a big castle, working doors, even a secret door in a wall that is also working.
I'm really happy they didn't say the actual #1. They did a video on it, but it really shouldn't get any publicity so I love when it doesn't even get mentioned.
I played one box of Discover: Lands Unknown and enjoyed it. Why did it not do well and why is it hated? They didn’t really explain in this video and I’m curious.
Hmm, the Legend of Drizzt one doesn‘t have that issue. One square on each tile has a mushroom patch that tells you where the monster spawns and moves to. So Zee‘s judgement is not really accurate to throw all of them in the same category based on that flaw since it doesn‘t exist with all of those games. I actually didn‘t even know of that flaw since I only own the Drizzt one.
@@seanv3997 I agree, mistakes like this always annoy me. This is such a simple thing and it’s right there in the rules. If you missed that, what else did you miss? It’s no wonder you didn’t like the game, you didn’t read all rules.
It’s fine if they don’t like it. Learning a game takes time- and if you only play it a couple times, mistakes will happen. But that rule was his only argument in the video against it, which sadly was a misnomer.
Virferrorum yeah, I think my original comment was stated a little too harsh. I still love everyone at DT, but dang dislike a game for the written rules not because you missed some. I make it a habit to reread the rules to a game after Ive played it. It helps grasp parts I may have missed.
There is a spot on the tiles for that, yes. I'm not sure if the rules state that you MUST place the monsters there or if it's optional. But if that spot is covered, then it absolutely is the players' discretion where to place the monsters. I mentioned in another comment that the Duergar Guard can be avoided almost indefinitely because he only attacks adjacent heroes, but he never actively moves adjacent to them.
For Castle Ravenloft, the rulebook does tell you where to spawn. The problem is, it does not matter as the monster attacks the room. It does not matter where it is it will attack anyone in the room. THAT is the problem with the game.
I kind of feel like the Dice Tower top tens have been on loop for like 5 years now. Not just the topics, but the games and the conversations had about them. It's to the point that I can guess the games they're trying to guess quicker than them... which probably says more about me than the videos. smh at myself.
how about a top 10 best rulebooks? :) we always hear about the terrible no good rulebooks, which ones are your favourite? I just got Meadow and I think the rule book was wonderful! 👌🏽
Now on the "Not Positive" lists I disagree, they can be really helpful for people with limited budget, and are doing their research, also they tend to be funny, now, doing only bad lists can bad, but I think good and bad are part of life so is, in a way, needed
I don't generally like "negative" content, but the Dice Tower Roast idea sounds fun. You should do one for each of the members. Everyone else should work together to come up with the list of 10, and then present the list as an intervention.
For me the biggest WTF was Myth. Looked great, I love card mechanics, and then I got a game that said: “well, just kinda think up your own scenarios and how the whole thing works”…
I’m surprised how quickly people forgot about the catastrophe that was ‘Myth’. People keep talking about “This or that is the worst KS of all time”, but compared to the whole experience of Myth, very few compare-especially when it comes to disparity between looks and gameplay. Personally, very few of the games on this list I’ve played or own-I got Tragedy Looper for like $5-10 in a bulk trade-I plan on trying it. I do own Batman: GCC-and I totally agree with “How does this happen when you made so much AND it has a predecessor,” but I do think I eventually came around with rulebook 2.0 . I still need to play it more-I definitely has problems, but it’s nothing compared to Myth.
Rules: Holy hell yes, and we have so many games now from "respected" publishers where the rules are so bad that they have to be thrown away and replaced with something you drop $20+ to print at Office Depot in order to be playable. Tiny Epic Dungeons has what amounts to a whole damned new set of rules, and the fact that people have paid money to have to *print their own rules* is absolute garbage.
I love Batman GCC I do agree that learning the game was unfortunate but It was easy to teach. I ignored a lot of the symbols that aren’t used for scenarios and find myself explaining things when they come up only. I know my gaming group just wants to have a good time with a few drinks and after 2-3 games we can dive in deeper to each characters abilities 🦇 🎲 P.S I’ve might of added a house rule or 2 😬🤣🤓
I wanted SO BADLY to back Kiwetin on Kickstarter, it looked gorgeous! But then I read their rulebook and phew-eee what a stinker! It's so random with no decision making, it's basically chutes and ladders. It was clearly made by people that had never played a modern boardgame before, which is such a shame cause it looked so cool.
A lot of the issues complained about in Dead of Winter are fixed by allowing players to self-exile. Put a restriction on it, such as revealing you can't win or waiting until a certain round to allow it, but it helps.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
The so-called "negative" Top Tens are usually my favorite to watch. I watch you mostly for entertainment and laughs and those provide plenty of both. I don't even know how many times I've watched your "Top 10 games not to play with angry people", it's such a classic.
And they can avoid a costly mistake buying the wrong game.
The "negative" Top Tens aren't just more entertaining, for me they are also more useful in finding games I would like! I've found that my tastes are very different from Zee and Tom (only aligning when it comes to gateway games), so if I see them not like a game, that catches my interest. It's been proven a few times that I really like games they don't like!
Thanks for the advice! I am catching up with that! :)
The one I always go back to is their first 'top 10 overrated games' they did live with Sam, Tom and Zee... Absolutely hilarious!
They’re one of the reasons I still miss Sam. He was hilarious on the more negative lists.
I love it when Zee gets intense about games he doesn't like. "Should I throw it in the trash cuz I already did" Always the highlight of the top tens.
I've been meaning to say how nice the numbered transition scenes using the various game components are. Whoever put those together deserves some kudos.
Zee managing to roast Tom while discussing doing a roast was a thing of beauty.
"Wait a week and you can say it was your idea." Hahaha.
Ah, the wonderful humor! This Top 10 has made me laugh more than than I have in a long while. Thanks, guys!
Man alive. I’ve been out of the BG scene for awhile because of time constraints and personal life stuff (I guess probably a few months before Sam left). And since I haven’t been playing, I haven’t been watching Dice Tower (too painful to see what you can’t have). I come back and the production level is off the charts. Dice Tower has really grown in the last few years. Keep it up, you guys rock!
Also it’s great to watch a Dice Tower Top 10. I didn’t realize how much I missed this.
"Abomination: The Rehearsal for Frankenstein's Dinner" LOL, even when he's roasting games that I like, Zee is hilarious
I like it too, but have never played the full length game.
@@BrandonGraham Same. Really like it, but only play with the Igor variant which takes 3 turns out of the game.
Don't you guys ever change. These lists are gold. So hilarious
Thanks again for all these wonderful top 10's this year, just like every other year. I enjoy listening to these and I also appreciate the variety of choices and opinions. Thanks for the hilarious banter.
Lol I really like Cargo Noir! This was a great video! You guys had me laughing the whole time.
Wow - you’ve saved us so much frustration and $$ - 🙏🙏🙏 many thanks! Please do this before Black Friday - it would be such a good reminder/helper - I’m a newbie and soaking it all in.
This is the best Dice Tower trio
Jasco is actually doing exactly what they suggested with Megaman to fix it - they're getting LVL99 to basically completely redesign it - and hopefully honour original backers with some kind of discount. This is actually a great partnership because LVL99 releases fantastic designs but tends to make production mistakes and cheap out a little, while Jasco is all production value. I'm excited to try whatever comes of this.
Oh wow, that’s my photo of Terror Below that was used on Mike’s #3! What a fun surprise. 🙂
I'm loving the new countdown video shorts with the board game components that turn into the numbers! A huge improvement over the old animations.
Thought the same. Kudos to the stop-motion animator! Looks great!
One of the best lists ever! Great work guys!
I agree that we don't want too much negativity, but at the same time, this kind of list helps us know which games to watch out for. That's especially true here, where we might be lured in by other aspects.
"Gorgeous Stinkers" is basically the business model for board games on kickstarter.
Negative lists are fun! It's good when you guys get a chance to blow off some steam and cut up.
Zee's list just destroyed every chance I had of convincing my husband of letting me buy games that I want.
Do more of these. I need to know which games are trying to tempt me. Thank you very much!
I loved both this and the previous list. Congratulations guys!
This and "Beautiful on the inside" were two of the most entertaining videos Dice Tower has ever put out. XD Parting thoughts: Wingspan Backlash is real. If I ever see that Mega Man game for dirt cheap, I'll buy it just for the minis and throw the rest away. Zee hates point salad (as he made abundantly clear in the Pulsar playthrough video). I only own 3/30 of these - all Zee's picks - so I don't feel too bad about myself.
Mine would be “Mice and Mystics,” and I never see anyone else talk about its problems. I love the theme - it definitely feels like playing inside a Redwall book. And it’s beautiful. But the mechanics are not fun - there’s a lot of imprecision and it all comes down to dice rolling
I think I’m in the same boat - I really wanted to like this one.
@@sixsmith7653, I even tried it solo with a bunch of house rules people suggested on BGG, as a last attempt to make it work, so I could experience the story. But halfway through the session, I quit because it felt like work, and I wasn’t having fun. Finally culled it from the collection.
That is a very nice looking game. Never played it though.
I love the timestamps so I can jump around if I want
Tom: "If I say I believe a game is bad, that isn't a fact" - unless you're talking about Monopoly Builder!!!
Please do The Dice Tower roasts, that was a great idea Tom had. 😁
When my friends and I play Dead of Winter we completely ignore the traitor cards (mostly because I was the traitor so often I used to get exiled immediately after the game started)
You know there's a hard mode where you just remove the traitor cards?
A DT roast would make a good KS stretch goal
Nope. They should do it for free. Public interest.
@@OriginalNuckChorris you should work for free too
Great list guys!! Loved this one
Thanks for a great vid! A bit of a hot take (from someone who couldn't care less about the IP or VGs): Dark Souls is one of the best solo board games I've ever played. The problem is, everything you are given to make it feasible to scrape by in the solo game is handled completely different in higher player counts. Because you're given more "souls" to start solo you can usually find something in the loot to give you a leg up. It's much less likely to happen right away in higher player counts and it can just as easily become a slog where you get insanely high level loot that you never live long enough to use. I agree that you shouldn't *have* to house rule, but simply tiering the loot deck or allowing more souls at the start makes all the difference for this one.
Yeah, I play the Dark Souls Board Game exclusively solo and love it. I do play with some house rules, most of them having to do with how treasure is handled because I think that's the biggest flaw. I don't play with multiple people anymore, so I don't increase the souls dropped per encounter, but I have heard that's a popular one. I don't tier out the treasure, but I might start, honestly. I usually just separate the treasure into category decks(equipment, spells, upgrade stones, etc.) and lay out a shop from each deck, but I guess I could take it a step further and maybe separate equipment into weapons and armor or tiers.
Zee is wrong on the D&D Adventure system. The rules explicitly say to place the monster on the "Bone pile" on the current tile.
Was just about to jump in and comment that if I didn't see it :)
The real problem with those games is the extremely limited progression and lack of true, linked campaign style play. There just aren't enough character levels, powers, or piles of gear to be gained. It's barely more complicated than HeroQuest. The system should allow levelling to at least 10, and have better rules for creating campaigns out of multiple sets. It just seems like a massive wasted opportunity to me, that whole line of games the way they made them. They could be made to be a lot better without being too much more complicated.
@@leadbones The newer ones (Temple of Elemental Evil) and onward do have an overarching campaign structure.
@@MegaSilver Yeah I have played the newer ones a bit, only on TTS tho. The campaign structure is better, I guess? Still, the main issue for me is lack of character progression. There just isn't enough character growth to look forward to in those games, even the newer ones with their cap of level 4, and their insubstantial piles of power and item cards. They aren't bad games. There are just a bunch of games I would rather play these days than any of those. I still think it's a missed opportunity to create a much more flexible, robust system of playing D&D in the guise of a faster paced board game. Personally, I wish they would reboot the series with the goal of creating long term campaign experiences and deep character progression. At least, that is what I would want from a D&D board game and pretty much any dungeon crawler.
@@leadbones Sounds like you want the D&D version of Descent or Gloomhaven.
This was great to watch. It was also painful to watch: reliving those painful epiphanies of the pretty games you backed on Kickstarter turning out to be stinkers. I backed Island of El Dorado and Batman, and they've been valuable lessons on me NOT to back new unestablished kickstarters.
"In this game, I'm watching everyone else at the table grind."
- Tom Vasel, 2021
🤢 Gross
One thing that can be said for Ki We Tin is that it is quite fun with young kids. Useful to teach basic maths. Sadly yeah, the rules are quite simple and the game wasn't tested enough (tiny mouse wins much more often than the large mouse from the trend we see). The event cards (you get 3 for the race) do add some minor tactical decisions, but not enough.
With the D&D games, there's one monster that you can avoid indefinitely, because he only attacks adjacent heroes, but he never moves adjacent! Also, there's a lot of sameness to the scenarios (only the main bad guy really changes).
I don't hate the games, though.
Just an idea for one of your videos: TOP 10 House Rules that dramatically improve a game!
You know it’s going to be a bad day when the game you just ordered is the first one mentioned on a Dice Tower Top Ten “Stinkers” list!
😂
so how was the game?
@@lolledopke Good quality components, excellent miniatures! Gameplay is okay. Needs some work balance wise but I enjoyed it solo. 6 out of 10!
I love that Tom put Dark Souls on this list, because I just watched his review again yesterday before deciding if I wanted to buy my friend's copy, and he saved me!!!
ahahah. I Love Dead of Winter. But I love it with the variant that there is no traitor. Play advanced goals and in order to win everyone needs to get their personal goal too. But you aren’t allowed to talk about your personal goals.
Why can't you talk about your personal goals? The only reason they exist is to make people suspicious of other players or provide cover for the traitor. Without a traitor who cares about the personal goals?
@@dolphycj it’s just another challenge to make getting the end game more difficult. We are really good at the game and tend to win most of the time. This adds more challenge to the game.
Please make Dice Tower Roasts a reality. That's basically what the group Top 10s are anyway, lol.
They already did one in the form of "The Top 10 Games Tom Is Wrong About".
Totally agree with you about Batman Gotham City Chronicles. Still adore the game. It is played a lot in our house. But the rule book is a frustration.
Street Fighter: The Miniatures Game. Such a great game design but if you only got the Core Box, very disappointing. I went all in on the KS & absolutely love it. So many ways to play & so many characters to choose from.
Really enjoyed this top 10!
My #1: First Martians. Such lovely components, great theme, intriguing ideas, and it all falls flat on its face.
Mike you are 100% right about Massive Darkness - what a stinker! I went all in in the kickstarter back in the day and OMG it was like they didn't even play test the game. We sunk hours into it hoping it was just our interpretation of the rules but nope - it's just a terrible game. Hardcore defenders of the game will say you need to house rule the hell out of it - but I was so upset I sold my copy on ebay (admittedly for a very good price). Great miniatures though.
I agree that MD1 is terrible; however, MD2 fixes a lot of issues with the game and it has been a lot of fun. It is still a CMON game so those issues are still present. The classes are unique and fun, the missions are interesting, and the models are gorgeous. The black dice can be painful but easily mitigated. I would suggest giving MD2 a try on TTS to see if you would like it, but it is a significantly better game.
100% agree about Treasure Island. It’s essentially “Euclidean Geometry: The Board Game”, except that in geometry you actually accomplish something interesting. Such a letdown.
I love Vladimír Suchý’s games, and I had a good first experience with Pulsar 2849, even though I went with a “structures” strategy and lost. But the second time was different. The game has a bunch of technologies and structures that are different each time you set the game up. The second game, someone just did all the spinning gyros, paying no attention to the techs or the structures (basically, doing the things that are the same in every game) and that player won handily, and it made most of the game seem purposeless. It was such a letdown!
I think tabletop really oversold Dead of Winter to the masses. It took some very funny personalities being very silly just to make that game work, and somehow everyone decided that being silly about your background and motives during a zombie apocalypse was “thematic”
Can we talk about Tom @ 17:43 saying "Whatchu gawwwwwt?" like that? 😂
I love the fact that they are willing to make videos that are NOT all sunshine and rainbows. I respect the Dice Tower's opinions more than anyone else's in part for their willingness to make videos like this. Keep it up....Okay, I LOVE the Buck Rogers appearance! Man, it's been a long time. Love that game, though. I also really love Island of El Dorado. It's not nearly as bad as they were saying in this video. There's a high learning curve, but that game is underrated in my mind. Also, Seafall SUUUUUUUCKED. I totally agree with that pick from the people.
Recently discovered the dice tower and really enjoying watching these top 10 videos 😊
However, like the ones on best covers, I definitely don’t have the same opinion of « beautiful » as Tom and Zee (phoenix????)😂
Great session with lots of Take Thatish comments 😛
BTW you guys should do Top Ten of most intuitive/easy to teach games
Unstable Unicorns has been a HIT every time I or many others I know played it!
Tragedy Looper really needs someone to teach it. It's a lot more abstract of a game than it looks. I think it's really fun and unique!
Tragedy Looper is great but I got rid of it because everyone I showed it to was immediately turned off it. It’s not even that hard a concept - it’s just a competitive deduction game with a bit of bluffing. A bit like Mr Jack one player/team is trying to arrange the board so they can deduce information, whilst the other is trying to delay them as long as possible. The deducing team gets a certain number of attempts to figure it out. That’s basically it
I love your so called negative top 10s
Here are some "take-that ish" replacement suggestions:
- Stabby
- Heavy on the pain reversals
- Giddy meanness
- Dog pillsy (because in my experience dogs dont like to take their pills)
I win! Because you lose!
Mine would be:
"Blue-shelling"
or
"Sharp-elbowing"
@@Cuuniyevo Oooo I really like "Blue-shelling"
There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing a negative list. They are just as fun as the positive lists!!!! (In my opinion)!
The section about "But it's good with house rules!" - sums up how I feel about d&d5e.
Not surprised how many of these were kickstarters. Kickstarter is about hype and looking good and does not reward time spent on quality of gameplay. If a game is kickstartered, I'll ignore it for at least a year and see if the people who've played it say it's worthwhile.
Thankfully don’t have many that would fall into this category but if the expansion content doesn’t fix it then Etherfields is my pick.
It would be great if Dice Tower would put a list either in the description or at the end of the video. I really like their reviews, their opinions are well-founded, but I don't always have the time to watch for a whole hour! Consider it guys?
People's choice showing why they can't do the job.
The People's list was basically, "this game didn't match my irrational hype and I'm mad that I don't spend money wisely."
Strangely the people’s choices for the good game bad graphics were pretty close to the Dice Tower’s picks
I would pretty much agree with the people. I would not have chosen those as my top 10, but they all were stinkers.
@@Crs9072 Unicorn is not a sticker.
Yeah, i saw the choices on facebook and was confused by them. Although I’ve heard Tapestry is pretty lackluster, but it looks nice. Ive never played it though.
I think if you guys end up roasting Eric about his taste in games you should call it the 'Top 10 games where Eric is wrong..erer'
1:24:42 Zee was shaking his head "No Way" but he himself guessed both Wingspan AND Mariposas for Mike #9 =))
I recall taking all the time to set-up a game of Buck Rogers, winning it in the first turn and then packing it all up again.
Castle of Ravenlot - watched Toms review and decided to buy it. The only reason it's not trashed is the miniatures we use elsewhere 😂
1:19:28 - Just curious, how much/little did you three enjoy The Batman: Animated Series game with the campaign based on episodes from the show and your partners sharing your dice rolls?
Tom gave the TMNT version a 9.5/10
Appreciate the video!
How about "takethatitude"?
I picked up Seafall earlier this year for $16 sealed. I know the game isn’t great, and I don’t have the bar set high, but for $16 it is worth a gamble. I’m also aware that interest tends to drop after game 7 or 8. That being said, so far my three kids (ages 14-23) and I have enjoyed it a lot so far. I have spent more than $16 on games that have been less enjoyable.
Yeah, I felt like this a few games in when I played it too but it just sputtered out for us like so many others have said. It just doesn't evolve enough.
Good discussion, fun video. And out of the 30 games selected I'm not offended by any of these picks!
As someone who puts Tragedy Looper at the top of their favorite games list… Zee isn’t entirely wrong. Those of us who like it love it, but it is not an easy game to understand. It needs a more streamlined version with much clearer rules.
As someone who really wants to like Tragedy Looper, he missed the biggest problem. It's a all against one game that puts SO much on the "one" that means the play is so uneven. That combined with hard to understand rules makes the game too hard to get to the table. Do you as the owner always play the "one"? If they have a good time do you let them try being the one, knowing how easy it is to screw up?
@@dolphycj I play it just with my wife. For a while the only board gaming I’ve been able to do is with my wife due to my work schedule.
Tragedy Looper - try it!! Clever and unique!
The whole time watching this, I kept thinking of Heroes Wanted. I kickstarted the game and was so excited. It was beautiful. Man, do I hate that game. Sold it after 2 plays.
Zee wins the human of the century award for his Dark Souls comment! I didn't know I could like him more than I already do!
I'm surprised no one named Dark World. I like it because I bought it when I was young and it brings back memories, but people dont like it. The production quality is great, with a big castle, working doors, even a secret door in a wall that is also working.
I'm really happy they didn't say the actual #1. They did a video on it, but it really shouldn't get any publicity so I love when it doesn't even get mentioned.
Yeah Mike! Tremors, one of the best movies of all time! :)
I appreciate and enjoy this video
I played one box of Discover: Lands Unknown and enjoyed it. Why did it not do well and why is it hated? They didn’t really explain in this video and I’m curious.
I too remember seeing the Buck Rogers game in comic books as a kid and thinking it looked like the best game ever.
Hmm, the Legend of Drizzt one doesn‘t have that issue. One square on each tile has a mushroom patch that tells you where the monster spawns and moves to. So Zee‘s judgement is not really accurate to throw all of them in the same category based on that flaw since it doesn‘t exist with all of those games. I actually didn‘t even know of that flaw since I only own the Drizzt one.
They don’t have that flaw. It’s the same on each game (the icon changes; mushrooms, bones, etc)
@@seanv3997 I agree, mistakes like this always annoy me. This is such a simple thing and it’s right there in the rules. If you missed that, what else did you miss? It’s no wonder you didn’t like the game, you didn’t read all rules.
It’s fine if they don’t like it. Learning a game takes time- and if you only play it a couple times, mistakes will happen. But that rule was his only argument in the video against it, which sadly was a misnomer.
Virferrorum yeah, I think my original comment was stated a little too harsh. I still love everyone at DT, but dang dislike a game for the written rules not because you missed some. I make it a habit to reread the rules to a game after Ive played it. It helps grasp parts I may have missed.
There is a spot on the tiles for that, yes. I'm not sure if the rules state that you MUST place the monsters there or if it's optional. But if that spot is covered, then it absolutely is the players' discretion where to place the monsters.
I mentioned in another comment that the Duergar Guard can be avoided almost indefinitely because he only attacks adjacent heroes, but he never actively moves adjacent to them.
Buck Roger....I was dreaming of that game as a kid.
Such a entertaining top 10!
For Castle Ravenloft, the rulebook does tell you where to spawn. The problem is, it does not matter as the monster attacks the room. It does not matter where it is it will attack anyone in the room. THAT is the problem with the game.
I kind of feel like the Dice Tower top tens have been on loop for like 5 years now. Not just the topics, but the games and the conversations had about them. It's to the point that I can guess the games they're trying to guess quicker than them... which probably says more about me than the videos. smh at myself.
how about a top 10 best rulebooks? :) we always hear about the terrible no good rulebooks, which ones are your favourite? I just got Meadow and I think the rule book was wonderful! 👌🏽
Fantastic Factories sets a really high bar for amazing rulebooks ❤️
Now on the "Not Positive" lists I disagree, they can be really helpful for people with limited budget, and are doing their research, also they tend to be funny, now, doing only bad lists can bad, but I think good and bad are part of life so is, in a way, needed
I don't generally like "negative" content, but the Dice Tower Roast idea sounds fun. You should do one for each of the members. Everyone else should work together to come up with the list of 10, and then present the list as an intervention.
Thanks for the timestamps
Dark Souls ... Bloodborne ... Dead of Winter ... video games and board games are epic. Other than those, these lists rock!
For me the biggest WTF was Myth. Looked great, I love card mechanics, and then I got a game that said: “well, just kinda think up your own scenarios and how the whole thing works”…
I’m surprised how quickly people forgot about the catastrophe that was ‘Myth’. People keep talking about “This or that is the worst KS of all time”, but compared to the whole experience of Myth, very few compare-especially when it comes to disparity between looks and gameplay.
Personally, very few of the games on this list I’ve played or own-I got Tragedy Looper for like $5-10 in a bulk trade-I plan on trying it. I do own Batman: GCC-and I totally agree with “How does this happen when you made so much AND it has a predecessor,” but I do think I eventually came around with rulebook 2.0 . I still need to play it more-I definitely has problems, but it’s nothing compared to Myth.
Rules: Holy hell yes, and we have so many games now from "respected" publishers where the rules are so bad that they have to be thrown away and replaced with something you drop $20+ to print at Office Depot in order to be playable. Tiny Epic Dungeons has what amounts to a whole damned new set of rules, and the fact that people have paid money to have to *print their own rules* is absolute garbage.
Hmm, all this talk about house rules makes me wonder, what are your top 10 house rules for board games?
I am so glad that I gave my Mega Man Kickstarter away without playing it once.. Yeah, I lost money but I did not loose any of my precious time...
Mike, great pic for #1! 👍🤜
I love Batman GCC
I do agree that learning the game was unfortunate but It was easy to teach.
I ignored a lot of the symbols that aren’t used for scenarios and find myself explaining things when they come up only.
I know my gaming group just wants to have a good time with a few drinks and after 2-3 games we can dive in deeper to each characters abilities 🦇 🎲
P.S I’ve might of added a house rule or 2 😬🤣🤓
That's the tragic thing. The game itself is actually really straightforward and fun, but you cannot learn it from the rulebook.
I wanted SO BADLY to back Kiwetin on Kickstarter, it looked gorgeous! But then I read their rulebook and phew-eee what a stinker! It's so random with no decision making, it's basically chutes and ladders. It was clearly made by people that had never played a modern boardgame before, which is such a shame cause it looked so cool.
A lot of the issues complained about in Dead of Winter are fixed by allowing players to self-exile. Put a restriction on it, such as revealing you can't win or waiting until a certain round to allow it, but it helps.
Best part about the Batman Kickstarter BS- The Season 2 came along, they didn't even fix up the typos in the rulebook for the 2nd edition rulebook.