Just want to say - you guys are killing it. The channel keeps going from strength to strength. You're obviously having so much fun and it's contagious.
These list videos are so addicting. Love the banter back and forth between you three and the distinct thought processes you all go through when crafting and comparing your lists. Great chemistry. Keep up the great work
Yes, these top 10 lists have become legendary. I find them comforting. Sort of like watching an old TV show that takes you back to another time. But there are always current ones as well.
You know, so many of us have developed such a fondness for the three of you. I wish I had even one friend as fun and cool as you guys are that was also into games. I guess what I’m trying to say is that you are all loved. Thank you for being a daily source of inspiration! 🙏🏼
I would love to see a top 10 solo games list! I think you guys may have done one years ago, but I am an avid solo gamer and would love to see a new list!
The people's choice disapointed me because it seems they confused "cooling down on" and "being burned out on". Your lists are way more interesting: it's not games you simply are tired after too many plays (that's just called achievement), it's game you reevaluated for what they would be for new players today.
A great conversation. I was impressed with how respectful all three were towards the games toward which they've cooled. The Dice Tower at its best. (And congratulations, Tom!)
I agree with basically all three lists (especially Escape Room games and TIME Stories), but Seasons is still an all-time banger. What a smooth, rewarding engine builder.
At the end seeing Catan as people's choice as #1 makes so much sense to me. My game group used to love Catan when it was new. It didn't take many plays, less than 10 I'm sure, before it became a bad game for us. We pulled it out and everyone was having a terrible time so we just called it and agreed we're done with it. Reassuring to see we aren't the only ones to have cooled off on Catan.
I was just about to add a comment about how I have decided to no longer play Catan and I saw your post. I've played this game too many times and witnessed one player who virtually does nothing because their numbers are not coming up. We even added a house rule where if on somebody's turn your number does not come up, you get a coin and can later trade two coins in for a card. That still didn't help. So both my wife and I refuse to play Catan anymore.
Catan can be an utter dog if the 6 & 8 are both not rolling. No one gets anything, no one builds. Or if whatever number brick or wood arent on won't roll. It just drags the game entirely. I won't play it anymore unless someone is really new to the hobby, has it, and asks me to play. Which is rarely happens.
Yeah, it got old but you have to respect what it did for the hobby. I haven't played it in years, but my wife and I still break out Rivals For Catan on occasion.
In case anyone missed what Mike was saying from 25:10 to 25:41, it's basically that he doesn't think it's a bad game; it's just that it's a bad game for him.
When Tom said that is now a Grandfather, I turned my partner and said Melody's had a baby and we both smiled, we hope Mum and Baby are both doing well. It's an amazing thing that whilst I live in the UK the power of the internet means that I care about people I have never met, who do not know me, yet I am happy for you. Best wishes
Great idea...and great disclaimer at the end. I love how hobbyists can ebb and flow with their top games and games they don't like anymore, but Tom Vasel has to LOVE (insert game here) until the end of time because it was in his top 20 back in 2011 :D
It's enjoyable to watch your engagement with one another. You really bring out the joy and passion for gaming and your shared experience really comes through. Thanks for making these videos. I make it all the way through these videos because of your interactions. Thanks, very much.
Dominant Species was such a good pick. That game seemed magical to us when we first started playing boardgames more regularly - but it just kept ending in frustrating ways and took so long to play... It'll always have a place in my heart but I can't imagine jumping to get it to the table anymore.
I enjoyed that, a couple of genuine laugh out moments amongst the banter. Quite interesting peoples choice. And congratulations to Tom and his wife on becoming Grandparents.
Dear Sam Healey, after all this time, Tom admits you were right about TI3 as mentioned in the “games these 2 jokers don’t appreciate video”. He also had a thinly veiled attack on Bang The Dice Game so you need to promote that more (maybe Mythic can get the rights).
I see the common theme. Any game that has 1 or more of these following gets cooled eventually: 1) Take forever to set up and clean up. 2) Hard to teach, overcomplicated=hard to get new players. 3) Takes too long to play, so only hardcore gamers play them. 4) Designed around a story like a book=First read through was awesome. Second and third read through, after you know the story already, not so much.
Personal comments on games shown here that I have cooled on: Dead of Winter: Basically I cooled on it after two plays back when it was new, because in both cases the traitor (not me) had a TERRIBLE time the whole game, since his / her options seemed so limited and in the end I decided: When I want a 3 to 4 hour hidden traitor game with resource management I'd MUCH rather play Battlestar Galactica again, because it's just so much better. Also: Battlestar Galactica AND Unfathomable are bot AMAAAAAZING games! Shorter social deduction games are nice to have and I love many of them, but none of them get close to the 'experience' of BSG. (Though BSG needs at least the Cylon fleet board from the expansions, because the Cylon(s) don't have enough options in the base game.) Legends of Andor: Yeah, at first glance it seems like a great idea ... but at second glance it's a very static, heavily scripted thing ... a puzzle with that one ideal solution that you have to recognize, pick and then roll dice to see whether it works. Side-note: I tried to get rid of it when I was selling other games in a local board game group and offering that someone buying ANY of my games could just take this as a free add-on. I had five people coming by and buy my games and no one wanted a free copy of Legends of Andor. A few months later I put it up on a flea market and no one wanted it. I really don't know what to do anymore. What I also did NOT cool on: Twilight Imperium! I prefer cooperative games most of the time, but this is still in my top-3. (I DID cool on Eclipse. I thought that game was fine after my first play and after my second session I never want to play it again. Sure: It's shorter than TI4, but not enough to justify taking out EVERYTHING except the "build fleet and punch someone's face" part, which is all that Eclipse is. If I only have 4 hours I'd rather play Spirit Island ... or BSG ... or Unfathomable ... or XIA ... etc. etc. etc.)
Thanks for another great list and video! You guys, and this channel, are great! It was nice to see you guys come around on some games I hated the first time I played them :) Lighthearted negativity and honest criticism are definitely needed in this hobby. Keep up the good work!
I'm not even through this video yet...this is such quality. Great topic and you're each making a statement with these selections and not trying to do shock drama, but really explaining how the game got here. So good...wow, really solid. I'm so glad I tuned into this video!
"the game is just too long" seems to be a pretty strong trend here. which makes sense. I hope game designers take note! great list all around. I think I'd agree with pretty much all picks (especially with the given reasons).
A lot of games do feel overpadded, but on the other hand, I do feel, admittedly, that what may be too long for a set of guys that have hundreds of games to get to and need to play a ton of them for reviews and stuff, might not *necessarily* be too long for most people.
Great list. It's one I really enjoyed. I figured Duel of Ages would be on Tom's list. It's nice to see that despite cooling he still really loves it deep down and if he only had someone to play it with it likely would go up again. It's still my favourite game out of 500+. That all being said there is a more streamlined version due out in the next couple of years called Worldspanner Factions. It's got the full 360 and has been much re-imagined despite still trying to adhere to the same feel.
I just felt Zee and Tom just had soooo much love into time stories that only when they got to the very end….that contrasts just had them talking about it…for years! Even just by judging your facial expression talking about it…there was such vivid memories and there was so much love and hate. =]
The people's choice is just a bunch of hipsters that want to show how much they don't like the games they are supposed to like nearly as much any more.
Oh Dominant Species.. I still love you enough to keep you #1. *We always get the game done in under 2 hours. I dunno what we do differently other than keeping it moving. Not for everyone, but this was the pinnacle of clashing worker placement/Action Selection. I try to get it played 1-2 times a year.
Interesting. As someone that is just really getting into the hobby (I would consider myself a serial hobbyist, and mid-level in the board game space... I know and have played more than most folks who just casually play board games, but certainly nowhere near the knowledge of the real serious board gamers), I almost use this video as a jumping off point to check out some games I've not heard of or played. Doesn't matter if I will cool on them, as long as I get some runway out of them in the beginning (Takenoko is a great example... I've already checked out some other videos and really think it's a cool concept, with a great design, so will check it out). Thanks for the amazing content, y'all!
No Zee! Andor?! With all the extra content, stories - it's so good! What an insanely good cooperative puzzler! I know the monster movements and upkeep is a bit of a pain, but it's just so fun.
I love (and kept) them both! The original is an event game, where you set aside the time and plan for it, but still well worth it. The choose an action, take the action from Marine makes it a completely different experience, and one that we enjoyed three times in two days when we first opened it (everyone home for Christmas, so had to break it in). Good stuff.
That was a fantastic list, fantastic video. You guys are so much fun to watch, and honestly, I agree with a vast majority of your picks. I will say I was appalled by the Between Two Cities pick, and I don't really agree with the reasoning, but to each his own. Congrats on the grandbaby, Tom!
Time stories has some of my best AND worst gaming experiences. We house ruled it to improve lots of things. The main thing is that once you've passed a test, it stays passed for future runs. Like you know how to pick that lock now, you don't need to roll for it again. But the ending was just SO BAD. I'm still angry.
I think a lot of games like Dead of Winter and Battlestar Galactica can be played out in groups. I still have both and we love them, but we also only play them once, maybe twice a year. Keeps it exciting for us. They are event games.
Surprised by people's choice; Terraforming Mars and Scythe were in the people's top 5 in the top 100, so for them to also be in the top 5 cooled games is a bit odd since they're seemingly still blazing hot for the people. But I guess it just shows how many people play those particular games compared to other games I guess?
Just started watching, so if my question is brought up during this video, I apologize. Are you considering a reverse of this list? That is, games that you have grown to like more over time.
I think 7th Continent has some problems but the fact that not every single encounter is 'super exciting' is not one of them. This might seem weird but I like a little mundanity in my exploration as it makes the special stuff feel more special. I greatly dislike many open world videogames for the very reason that they feel less like a world and more like a themed amusement park with activities every 5 feet.
Agreed and that's also why I disliked Sleeping Gods: every single encounter is "big" and also completely disconnected from everything else. Basically everything Zee, Tom and Mike said as reasons to like Sleeping Gods better than seventh continent are reasons I keep coming back to 7th continent and stopped Sleeping Gods after a handful of sessions
Zee's #3 is a Must-Have for me chiefly due to IP, and it will remain so. Tom's #3 plays kinda like classic PC adventure games "Myst" or LucasArts adventure titles for me (I enjoy subtle clues in the art). I'm early into enjoying these titles, so time will tell if my experience tracks similar to theirs. Great video, TDT, and spot-on takes of the People's Choice selections - thanks for the perspectives in general. Ah, JJ Abrams dropping the ball in a series? Unheard of.
While having mindless minions marching to their death provide easy income and XP during the early game, their real value as a mechanism comes in the mid and late game when the meeting point of the two sides acts as a neutral tower of sorts, sliding back and forth in the lane. Pushing it towards your opponent provides resources, but also improves your vision and can passively pressure your opponent's buildings. This pressure forces your opponent's to show on the map to push it out, giving away their position, or giving away their lack of presence in the area if they don't respond to the pressure. It's a simple mechanism that adds a lot to MOBA game-play but maybe doesn't translate as well to board games.
It's also interesting how while it's so unintuitive in a vacuum, it makes a lot of sense when you think about being a custom map for WC3. The base game is already an RTS with a big focus hero units that you want to fight but only _just_ the right amount so they level up without wasting time dead. The creeps walking obliviously to their doom is just what it would be like if a (very basic) computer controlled everything _but_ your hero for you
Great list guys. One of the best top 10 ideas, especially knowing the history of when these games were favorites for you all an myself in the past. I do like Between Two Castles as a larger group game. Never tried Cities.
To be fair to Ex Libris. The second printing included player aids for all location cards, which greatly improved the playability. Even though I too cooled on it. There’s better tableau builders these days.
I definitely cooled on: Catan - too lucky/reliant on convincing others to trade, and the expansion that makes it more enjoyable (Cities & Knights) makes it take too long Chess - had fun with it growing up, but people started taking it way too seriously and the matches went from manageable 30-60 minute affairs to multiple hours long and I just really grew so fatigued with it I just have zero desire to ever play a match ever again Sushi Go! - first I loved it for its simplicity, but now I find it dull for the same reason Tokaido - same as with Sushi Go, eventually the simplicity became dull for me Takenoko - I find it a bit on the simpler side for me, but unlike the two above, this one I would still say yes to playing if someone else brought it.
I think Pandemic isnt there because other games do it better now. But because once you "get good at it" you almost cannot lose. We had this with the Legacy one. We lost once. And partially because we were trying at that point, because we were trying to make that game at least bit difficult, as it was breeze...
I've cooled on social deduction, the only one I still own is bang the dice game because it still has a fun dice game at its core. Deception murder in hong kong was my biggest fall from grace. I just feel like we're having the same experience and the same conversations each time, I'm just over it and dont care to play it anymore.
I really liked watching this series. I haven't played most of these games, even found a few that sounded interesting to me that I may try. However, I completely disagree with Catan being #1 for people's choice. I have been playing it for years and years, probably played over 100 games of it if not more, and I still enjoy it.
Spot-on regarding Dead of Winter. And that’s why I think New Angeles is such a genius design that brings about the same conflict organically. It’s a shame that it is such a long game which really limits its play.
Couple of things re: One Deck Dungeon: You don't know in advance what's in the rooms, but once you reveal the room you can choose to start that encounter, or flee (which does cost you time so it's a meaningful choice). And you can't further explore while there are four doors so you need to resolve at least one of them before you can move on. Putting them in a stack *would* just remove all choice. And yeah, the final fight does come down to rolling dice, but how well you do at that fight depends *so* much on how well you've prepared for that fight over the course of the game. You can be unlucky, but for the most part there's quite a bit of mitigation available.
Great video guys!! For me Roborally. I have a friend who loves it and I will play if she chooses it , but I find it tedious and frustrating, not fun. Also, Libertalia. The mechanics are fine, just too many negative outcomes for my taste. Thanks guys!!
Lost is one of those shows that KILLED my interest in serialized television. If you get invested in a movie and it has a shit ending, that's one night and a few hours. If you get invested in tv series that last years and it has a shit ending... that's 100s of hours plus anticipation stores.
For me, it was Game of Thrones that killed my interest in serialized television. I still watch comedy series (straight comedies, not dramedies) but I don't have the energy to get into a drama anymore.
For me it would be Munchkin and Pandemic. I really think Pandemic was the first good coop and that’s what made it huge. To me it’s pretty easily replaced by other coops, Flash Point for example. I would also say Catan, but I still enjoy the Cities and Knights expansion and I would agree it’s a classic game at this point.
Evolution really does simulate evolutionary pressures. Seriously, it's impressive. It intuitively nudges you into reacting just as evolution does. Very cool game, hyper thematic. Oceans is OK. It had a lot of potential, but sort of.....I don't know. It doesn't rise to the potential It has in the box. Very beautiful though.
I was expecting for Tom to put Terraforming Mars around 10 or 9 since it fell so much on his rankings this last year. But I guess he still loves it a lot and it wouldn't make sense to put it here. That Roy's exasperation reaction at 38:13 for Tom's choice killed me xD
I wasn’t sure what to think of this ‘Games I’m Cooling on’ idea, bit it was really good, except that I own four of the games named. I haven’t cooled on them, yet. Anyway, hearing your reasons for why you cooled was well, cool.
I don't often disagree with the analysis of Zee, but Among the Stars is still one of my favourite games with a great theme (building a starbase!) and one of my favourite artworks of any game. I agree, the setup is still a bear, but I don't see myself ever cooling on it (especially thanks to the amazing expansion content out for the game).
I love real life escape rooms. I live in canada, and here we have a few really amazing ones that change the rooms every few months so you can keep going back again and again. They never seem to lose originality and there's always some gimmick that make them interesting enough to enjoy the whole way through. As for escape room board games, I feel like i've already seen everything they have to offer. The first time I played an EXIT game, I was blown away by what boundaries they could push and unique things they could do with the medium. After playing a bunch of those and a few Unlock! games, I find it hard to get excited anymore. We just played EXIT's 2-parter catacombs puzzle which is supposed to be their "big deluxe" one and has a ton of positive reviews- I felt underwhelmed. Most of the puzzles you will figure out before you even find all the pieces to properly solve it, one puzzle will be worded poorly or very abstract and end up frustrating you more than it should, and the final puzzle is usually the only impressive thing in the box. I haven't tried a ton of Unlock! games so maybe that would bring more variety, but I feel like i'm still waiting for something to truly blow me away like the first time I played one and had no idea what I was getting into.
Playing Dead of Winter as a pure co-op is what put the nail in the coffin for me. My group was starting to cool on it already and decided to try and mix it up, but the game is completely dead when you remove the forced tension from the personal objectives/traitor. The decision making process becomes 'where do I get x' then 'go to x and search until you find it'. The highlight of the game is the Crossroad cards but that doesn't hold the rest of the game together.
I think the length is what makes BSG so special. It's really the only social deduction came where you can sabotage the good side and then lie low for a while and the ultimate betrayal is so much sweeter when you managed to fool everybody for 3 hours.
Came here to say exactly this. We'd purposely play it at the end of the night so we were tired and irritable and having a 3 hour trek ahead of us just made it all the better..mine and my friends favourite game.
It would be interesting to see if the list was substantially different if instead of "games we've cooled on", it was "games which in hindsight weren't great". Several of these games I played and just never understood the hype. Photosynthesis, Bang, Citadels, Exit games, all felt to me worn out after a handful of plays or less. This list makes me feel better about my "gaming instincts" in justifying my hesitation on many of these games. Great video and thanks for the list!
Mine are: -Betrayal at House on the Hill (still nostalgic for it as it got me into the hobby back in 2004) -Mansions of Madness. I thought this game killed Betrayal, but similarly, there's not much of a game here. -Resistance: Avalon. I just played this game too much that it got to the point where I no longer enjoyed it unless I was the traitor. -Pandemic Classic. Still consider it to be a great game but I'm burnt out on it. The Legacy games were enjoyable but also the final nail. It was an obligation to get the group together and the whole ting felt like work. Horrified is just way more fun. -Heroscape. I'll always love Heroscape, the idea of it, the pre-painted minis, the maps, the fan content, all of it. But it's just too impractical...Not just the setup/tear down but also storage demands if you have a massive collection. Forget about moving to other countries. Different game but Unmatched replaced this. -Chronicles of Crime. I initially thought this was the perfect replacement to Consulting Detective but I felt you spend too much of the game scanning and scanning until the answer is obvious. Tried 1400 and didn't feel any different. -Monikers/Time's Up/Blockbuster. These kinds of party games are touted as "hilarious" and I enjoyed them initially but I realized no one else in my group really cared for them. Ironically, they prefer classic charades or a game with more meat.
Wingspan on the ppls isn’t to surprising as I was getting stale on it but Oceania expansion changed everything for me with the new boards. It has many paths to victory now
I would say Legacy Games, as a whole. For a similar reason that they said about Twilight Imperium. I think I rather mix up my games a lot more, than replaying the same game 10+ times, in a row. I think it could be a better choice, if you have a really small collection, between you and your friends. But, as a host for boardgaming events, I just can't put that much time into one game, when many people want me to play others, with them. I still get invited to join Legacy games, but I respectfully decline.
TIME Stories is not a game in not my opinion. There was nothing revealed during the game that helped us make better decisions later in the game. It was simply a slog where we did stuff until we visited every location and therefore stumbled upon the ending.
Quite an entertaining video, thank you :) . A similar style list you could do would be games you were excited for, played once, and just felt like you had seen everything the game had to offer and weren't interested in playing it again. Atlantis Rising is that game for me. In terms of this video, Pandemic has gone from an okay game to one I won't play after being burned out by two of the legacy versions of it that I didn't find that interesting but had to play 15 or 16 games of it in a very short time frame (twice!).
I honestly couldn't disagree more about Between Two Cities. All the things Mike and Tom mention seem to be a player and player group problem. I think this game is amazing and unique (and they shouldn't have made that sequel which gave the original a worse name).
I strongly disagree about 7th continent. It being a sandbox game where you can pick up clues for other curses and learn the map makes the game all the enjoyable to me. Also I like the risk of dying and starting over because you learn stuff about the map as you go. The fact you can go anywhere is what makes the game amazing.
Just want to say - you guys are killing it. The channel keeps going from strength to strength. You're obviously having so much fun and it's contagious.
Yeah, the content has been quite strong lately... haveta agree. :-) Great job, guys!
These list videos are so addicting. Love the banter back and forth between you three and the distinct thought processes you all go through when crafting and comparing your lists. Great chemistry. Keep up the great work
Yes, these top 10 lists have become legendary. I find them comforting. Sort of like watching an old TV show that takes you back to another time. But there are always current ones as well.
This was great. I’d love to see this list revisited in 3 to 5 years.
This could be an annual list. 😊👍
"Top 10 Games We Cooled On Then Warmed On Again"
@@metallsnubben Top Ten Cold Pizzas Revisited
You know, so many of us have developed such a fondness for the three of you. I wish I had even one friend as fun and cool as you guys are that was also into games. I guess what I’m trying to say is that you are all loved. Thank you for being a daily source of inspiration! 🙏🏼
Agreed!
I love the camaraderie you three have. You can tell you are all really good friends and it comes across in every video you do together.
I only watch the top 10s that are only Tom, Zee, and Mike, these days. Just not a fan of the others.
I would love to see a top 10 solo games list! I think you guys may have done one years ago, but I am an avid solo gamer and would love to see a new list!
The people's choice disapointed me because it seems they confused "cooling down on" and "being burned out on". Your lists are way more interesting: it's not games you simply are tired after too many plays (that's just called achievement), it's game you reevaluated for what they would be for new players today.
"being burned out on" - that was Evolution and the Escape Room games though.
Yeah that’s pretty much the same thing. “Burned out” and “cooling down” are almost synonyms themselves 😂
Congratulations on becoming a grandfather, Tom! I hope everyone is well.
A huge AMEN to that! :-D
wait what?
A great conversation. I was impressed with how respectful all three were towards the games toward which they've cooled. The Dice Tower at its best. (And congratulations, Tom!)
Could rename this list “Top 10 games the Dice Tower convinced me to buy and are now trash.”
Sell them to people and make them realise after years of having fun that the games are soon "trash"
I appreciate their honesty
I feel you but everything becomes old eventually.
😂
Thats like saying they told me to use windows 7 but its old now
I agree with basically all three lists (especially Escape Room games and TIME Stories), but Seasons is still an all-time banger. What a smooth, rewarding engine builder.
At the end seeing Catan as people's choice as #1 makes so much sense to me. My game group used to love Catan when it was new. It didn't take many plays, less than 10 I'm sure, before it became a bad game for us. We pulled it out and everyone was having a terrible time so we just called it and agreed we're done with it. Reassuring to see we aren't the only ones to have cooled off on Catan.
I was just about to add a comment about how I have decided to no longer play Catan and I saw your post. I've played this game too many times and witnessed one player who virtually does nothing because their numbers are not coming up. We even added a house rule where if on somebody's turn your number does not come up, you get a coin and can later trade two coins in for a card. That still didn't help. So both my wife and I refuse to play Catan anymore.
Catan can be an utter dog if the 6 & 8 are both not rolling. No one gets anything, no one builds. Or if whatever number brick or wood arent on won't roll. It just drags the game entirely. I won't play it anymore unless someone is really new to the hobby, has it, and asks me to play. Which is rarely happens.
Yeah, it got old but you have to respect what it did for the hobby. I haven't played it in years, but my wife and I still break out Rivals For Catan on occasion.
In case anyone missed what Mike was saying from 25:10 to 25:41, it's basically that he doesn't think it's a bad game; it's just that it's a bad game for him.
He says the same thing about Scythe in reverse. “I’m not saying it’s a perfect game, it’s just a perfect game for me.”
LOL! I noticed that part, as well. ;-)
@@middleclassboardgamer He’s said it about Dwellings of Eldervale, as well
This was a great list! Seeing all the top 10 lists, this is so out of the box. I hope this would be an annual thing or something.
Hey Tom, congratulations on becoming a grandfather! Best wishes to you and your entire family! This is a very cool Top 10 list.
When Tom said that is now a Grandfather, I turned my partner and said Melody's had a baby and we both smiled, we hope Mum and Baby are both doing well. It's an amazing thing that whilst I live in the UK the power of the internet means that I care about people I have never met, who do not know me, yet I am happy for you. Best wishes
This was the sweetest comment. Glad to always be reminded their are wonderful people out there!
Great idea...and great disclaimer at the end. I love how hobbyists can ebb and flow with their top games and games they don't like anymore, but Tom Vasel has to LOVE (insert game here) until the end of time because it was in his top 20 back in 2011 :D
We need a: Top 10 games we most agree on. It will only be 1 joint top 10 with both positive and negative games the guys agree on.
This is a great idea!
It's enjoyable to watch your engagement with one another. You really bring out the joy and passion for gaming and your shared experience really comes through. Thanks for making these videos. I make it all the way through these videos because of your interactions. Thanks, very much.
Dominant Species was such a good pick. That game seemed magical to us when we first started playing boardgames more regularly - but it just kept ending in frustrating ways and took so long to play... It'll always have a place in my heart but I can't imagine jumping to get it to the table anymore.
I had it on my shelf of shame for three years and I'm afraid this video finally convinced me to sell it unopened 🙈
I enjoyed that, a couple of genuine laugh out moments amongst the banter. Quite interesting peoples choice. And congratulations to Tom and his wife on becoming Grandparents.
Dear Sam Healey, after all this time, Tom admits you were right about TI3 as mentioned in the “games these 2 jokers don’t appreciate video”. He also had a thinly veiled attack on Bang The Dice Game so you need to promote that more (maybe Mythic can get the rights).
I see the common theme. Any game that has 1 or more of these following gets cooled eventually:
1) Take forever to set up and clean up.
2) Hard to teach, overcomplicated=hard to get new players.
3) Takes too long to play, so only hardcore gamers play them.
4) Designed around a story like a book=First read through was awesome. Second and third read through, after you know the story already, not so much.
Personal comments on games shown here that I have cooled on:
Dead of Winter: Basically I cooled on it after two plays back when it was new, because in both cases the traitor (not me) had a TERRIBLE time the whole game, since his / her options seemed so limited and in the end I decided: When I want a 3 to 4 hour hidden traitor game with resource management I'd MUCH rather play Battlestar Galactica again, because it's just so much better.
Also: Battlestar Galactica AND Unfathomable are bot AMAAAAAZING games! Shorter social deduction games are nice to have and I love many of them, but none of them get close to the 'experience' of BSG. (Though BSG needs at least the Cylon fleet board from the expansions, because the Cylon(s) don't have enough options in the base game.)
Legends of Andor: Yeah, at first glance it seems like a great idea ... but at second glance it's a very static, heavily scripted thing ... a puzzle with that one ideal solution that you have to recognize, pick and then roll dice to see whether it works. Side-note: I tried to get rid of it when I was selling other games in a local board game group and offering that someone buying ANY of my games could just take this as a free add-on. I had five people coming by and buy my games and no one wanted a free copy of Legends of Andor. A few months later I put it up on a flea market and no one wanted it. I really don't know what to do anymore.
What I also did NOT cool on:
Twilight Imperium! I prefer cooperative games most of the time, but this is still in my top-3.
(I DID cool on Eclipse. I thought that game was fine after my first play and after my second session I never want to play it again. Sure: It's shorter than TI4, but not enough to justify taking out EVERYTHING except the "build fleet and punch someone's face" part, which is all that Eclipse is. If I only have 4 hours I'd rather play Spirit Island ... or BSG ... or Unfathomable ... or XIA ... etc. etc. etc.)
Thanks for another great list and video! You guys, and this channel, are great! It was nice to see you guys come around on some games I hated the first time I played them :) Lighthearted negativity and honest criticism are definitely needed in this hobby. Keep up the good work!
I'm not even through this video yet...this is such quality. Great topic and you're each making a statement with these selections and not trying to do shock drama, but really explaining how the game got here. So good...wow, really solid. I'm so glad I tuned into this video!
For me Catan has grown on me, so much. First 15 years of knowing about it I always said it was my least favourite game, but now it's my most played.
Great video as always. You three are my favorite folks to listen to on all of RUclips board games
I love these top videos you 3 do together. You just bounce off each other so well. It’s just fun and relaxing. Thanks guys!
"the game is just too long" seems to be a pretty strong trend here. which makes sense. I hope game designers take note!
great list all around. I think I'd agree with pretty much all picks (especially with the given reasons).
A lot of games do feel overpadded, but on the other hand, I do feel, admittedly, that what may be too long for a set of guys that have hundreds of games to get to and need to play a ton of them for reviews and stuff, might not *necessarily* be too long for most people.
I think I'm addicted to Dice Tower Top 10s. I literally don't watch any other Dice Tower videos, I just go on Top 10 binges all the time
I'm gonna say that's what most of us do
There should be a game called "A Bear to Teach" which has overcomplicated rules, but which is also about the players teaching a bear.
😆😆😆 so good
Give this suggestion to The Oatmeal, he'd make something brilliant out of it!
I think The Dice Tower should still design Tom’s slip up once with Eric: “Crooks and Nannies” (instead of Nooks and Crannies).
Great list. It's one I really enjoyed. I figured Duel of Ages would be on Tom's list. It's nice to see that despite cooling he still really loves it deep down and if he only had someone to play it with it likely would go up again. It's still my favourite game out of 500+. That all being said there is a more streamlined version due out in the next couple of years called Worldspanner Factions. It's got the full 360 and has been much re-imagined despite still trying to adhere to the same feel.
massive congrats to the Vasel family, best of health to you all! :) and maybe, just maybe, one day do go and play Duel of Ages with the little fellow!
I just felt Zee and Tom just had soooo much love into time stories that only when they got to the very end….that contrasts just had them talking about it…for years!
Even just by judging your facial expression talking about it…there was such vivid memories and there was so much love and hate. =]
This was a great episode. Thanks Zee, Tom and Mike!
The people's choice is just a bunch of hipsters that want to show how much they don't like the games they are supposed to like nearly as much any more.
Watched the first two minutes, had Mike mention Castor Oil, and thought, "Man, I love Mike being in the Dice Tower!"
Oh Dominant Species.. I still love you enough to keep you #1. *We always get the game done in under 2 hours. I dunno what we do differently other than keeping it moving.
Not for everyone, but this was the pinnacle of clashing worker placement/Action Selection. I try to get it played 1-2 times a year.
Thank you for the laughs - needed them today!
Interesting. As someone that is just really getting into the hobby (I would consider myself a serial hobbyist, and mid-level in the board game space... I know and have played more than most folks who just casually play board games, but certainly nowhere near the knowledge of the real serious board gamers), I almost use this video as a jumping off point to check out some games I've not heard of or played. Doesn't matter if I will cool on them, as long as I get some runway out of them in the beginning (Takenoko is a great example... I've already checked out some other videos and really think it's a cool concept, with a great design, so will check it out).
Thanks for the amazing content, y'all!
No Zee! Andor?! With all the extra content, stories - it's so good! What an insanely good cooperative puzzler! I know the monster movements and upkeep is a bit of a pain, but it's just so fun.
Tom is turning into an Amish farmer more and more all the time.
Dominant Species is still my favorite long euro game. Love it. Brilliant design. I haven't played the new version, but willing to give it a try.
I love (and kept) them both! The original is an event game, where you set aside the time and plan for it, but still well worth it. The choose an action, take the action from Marine makes it a completely different experience, and one that we enjoyed three times in two days when we first opened it (everyone home for Christmas, so had to break it in). Good stuff.
That was a fantastic list, fantastic video. You guys are so much fun to watch, and honestly, I agree with a vast majority of your picks. I will say I was appalled by the Between Two Cities pick, and I don't really agree with the reasoning, but to each his own. Congrats on the grandbaby, Tom!
Never understood the hate that Dominate Species gets for the look. I absolutely love the look of this game.
Respectfully
Time stories has some of my best AND worst gaming experiences.
We house ruled it to improve lots of things. The main thing is that once you've passed a test, it stays passed for future runs. Like you know how to pick that lock now, you don't need to roll for it again.
But the ending was just SO BAD. I'm still angry.
I haven’t watched in a month or two and seriously thought Tom aged overnight 😂😂😂
I think a lot of games like Dead of Winter and Battlestar Galactica can be played out in groups. I still have both and we love them, but we also only play them once, maybe twice a year. Keeps it exciting for us. They are event games.
Surprised by people's choice; Terraforming Mars and Scythe were in the people's top 5 in the top 100, so for them to also be in the top 5 cooled games is a bit odd since they're seemingly still blazing hot for the people. But I guess it just shows how many people play those particular games compared to other games I guess?
Great video, guys! I love it when the panel is squirrelly, you're so funny!
Just started watching, so if my question is brought up during this video, I apologize.
Are you considering a reverse of this list? That is, games that you have grown to like more over time.
They did a "Top 10 Games that Got Better" about 4 years ago.
I still love bang and dead of winter despite some of the flaws. Really fun list. Thanks guys. Love the banter
Tom was heading the charge on that fad of escape room games.
Gloomhaven's setup killed it after a while.
I think 7th Continent has some problems but the fact that not every single encounter is 'super exciting' is not one of them. This might seem weird but I like a little mundanity in my exploration as it makes the special stuff feel more special. I greatly dislike many open world videogames for the very reason that they feel less like a world and more like a themed amusement park with activities every 5 feet.
Agreed and that's also why I disliked Sleeping Gods: every single encounter is "big" and also completely disconnected from everything else. Basically everything Zee, Tom and Mike said as reasons to like Sleeping Gods better than seventh continent are reasons I keep coming back to 7th continent and stopped Sleeping Gods after a handful of sessions
It's a lot of mundane stuff in a really long game.
Zee's #3 is a Must-Have for me chiefly due to IP, and it will remain so. Tom's #3 plays kinda like classic PC adventure games "Myst" or LucasArts adventure titles for me (I enjoy subtle clues in the art). I'm early into enjoying these titles, so time will tell if my experience tracks similar to theirs. Great video, TDT, and spot-on takes of the People's Choice selections - thanks for the perspectives in general. Ah, JJ Abrams dropping the ball in a series? Unheard of.
While having mindless minions marching to their death provide easy income and XP during the early game, their real value as a mechanism comes in the mid and late game when the meeting point of the two sides acts as a neutral tower of sorts, sliding back and forth in the lane. Pushing it towards your opponent provides resources, but also improves your vision and can passively pressure your opponent's buildings. This pressure forces your opponent's to show on the map to push it out, giving away their position, or giving away their lack of presence in the area if they don't respond to the pressure. It's a simple mechanism that adds a lot to MOBA game-play but maybe doesn't translate as well to board games.
It's also interesting how while it's so unintuitive in a vacuum, it makes a lot of sense when you think about being a custom map for WC3. The base game is already an RTS with a big focus hero units that you want to fight but only _just_ the right amount so they level up without wasting time dead. The creeps walking obliviously to their doom is just what it would be like if a (very basic) computer controlled everything _but_ your hero for you
Tom just needs a moustache to be a dead ringer for the Engineer in Great Western Trail (1st Ed.)
Great list guys. One of the best top 10 ideas, especially knowing the history of when these games were favorites for you all an myself in the past.
I do like Between Two Castles as a larger group game. Never tried Cities.
To be fair to Ex Libris. The second printing included player aids for all location cards, which greatly improved the playability. Even though I too cooled on it. There’s better tableau builders these days.
I definitely cooled on:
Catan - too lucky/reliant on convincing others to trade, and the expansion that makes it more enjoyable (Cities & Knights) makes it take too long
Chess - had fun with it growing up, but people started taking it way too seriously and the matches went from manageable 30-60 minute affairs to multiple hours long and I just really grew so fatigued with it I just have zero desire to ever play a match ever again
Sushi Go! - first I loved it for its simplicity, but now I find it dull for the same reason
Tokaido - same as with Sushi Go, eventually the simplicity became dull for me
Takenoko - I find it a bit on the simpler side for me, but unlike the two above, this one I would still say yes to playing if someone else brought it.
Was expecting Puerto Rico on at least 1 persons list and the people's choice. it was king for a long time and now I never see anyone play it anymore.
I think Pandemic isnt there because other games do it better now.
But because once you "get good at it" you almost cannot lose.
We had this with the Legacy one. We lost once. And partially because we were trying at that point, because we were trying to make that game at least bit difficult, as it was breeze...
I've cooled on Marvel Legendary. Played this game tons!
I've cooled on social deduction, the only one I still own is bang the dice game because it still has a fun dice game at its core. Deception murder in hong kong was my biggest fall from grace. I just feel like we're having the same experience and the same conversations each time, I'm just over it and dont care to play it anymore.
"There's a lot of games in the world, Garcia!" Needs to be on a shirt.
I think 10 is too small of a list for this category.
I'd love to see you guys re-visit it again (maybe with the A-Team?)
Congratulations Gramps! :-) But seriously, happy for you and your growing family.
And of course, congratulations to Melody and her husband!
I honestly have not idea why Bang even exists. Bang the Dice Game is better in every way, and yet Bang is still in print…
I've cooled big time on Feast For Odin. I still want to play with the expansion, but as is, I'm good.
I really liked watching this series. I haven't played most of these games, even found a few that sounded interesting to me that I may try. However, I completely disagree with Catan being #1 for people's choice. I have been playing it for years and years, probably played over 100 games of it if not more, and I still enjoy it.
Spot-on regarding Dead of Winter. And that’s why I think New Angeles is such a genius design that brings about the same conflict organically. It’s a shame that it is such a long game which really limits its play.
Couple of things re: One Deck Dungeon: You don't know in advance what's in the rooms, but once you reveal the room you can choose to start that encounter, or flee (which does cost you time so it's a meaningful choice). And you can't further explore while there are four doors so you need to resolve at least one of them before you can move on. Putting them in a stack *would* just remove all choice.
And yeah, the final fight does come down to rolling dice, but how well you do at that fight depends *so* much on how well you've prepared for that fight over the course of the game. You can be unlucky, but for the most part there's quite a bit of mitigation available.
Great video guys!! For me Roborally. I have a friend who loves it and I will play if she chooses it , but I find it tedious and frustrating, not fun. Also, Libertalia. The mechanics are fine, just too many negative outcomes for my taste. Thanks guys!!
Now you should make a list of games that you warmed up to.
BSG is the epitome of compressing 35 minutes of awesomeness into 2 hours of gameplay.
(hint: that's the wrong way)
Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast. - Ron Burgundy
Photosynthesis is a great abstract, open game. I love it, but I love chess as well :-)
Lost is one of those shows that KILLED my interest in serialized television. If you get invested in a movie and it has a shit ending, that's one night and a few hours. If you get invested in tv series that last years and it has a shit ending... that's 100s of hours plus anticipation stores.
For me, it was Game of Thrones that killed my interest in serialized television. I still watch comedy series (straight comedies, not dramedies) but I don't have the energy to get into a drama anymore.
For me it would be Munchkin and Pandemic. I really think Pandemic was the first good coop and that’s what made it huge. To me it’s pretty easily replaced by other coops, Flash Point for example. I would also say Catan, but I still enjoy the Cities and Knights expansion and I would agree it’s a classic game at this point.
Evolution really does simulate evolutionary pressures. Seriously, it's impressive. It intuitively nudges you into reacting just as evolution does. Very cool game, hyper thematic.
Oceans is OK. It had a lot of potential, but sort of.....I don't know. It doesn't rise to the potential It has in the box. Very beautiful though.
I was expecting for Tom to put Terraforming Mars around 10 or 9 since it fell so much on his rankings this last year. But I guess he still loves it a lot and it wouldn't make sense to put it here.
That Roy's exasperation reaction at 38:13 for Tom's choice killed me xD
Dead of Winter has a shelf life--Dead of Winter The Long Night is always a great time and never boring!! Great lists!
I wasn’t sure what to think of this ‘Games I’m Cooling on’ idea, bit it was really good, except that I own four of the games named. I haven’t cooled on them, yet. Anyway, hearing your reasons for why you cooled was well, cool.
Ahh Mike Seasons is a great game.
The more i play it, the more i like it.
I don't often disagree with the analysis of Zee, but Among the Stars is still one of my favourite games with a great theme (building a starbase!) and one of my favourite artworks of any game. I agree, the setup is still a bear, but I don't see myself ever cooling on it (especially thanks to the amazing expansion content out for the game).
I love real life escape rooms. I live in canada, and here we have a few really amazing ones that change the rooms every few months so you can keep going back again and again. They never seem to lose originality and there's always some gimmick that make them interesting enough to enjoy the whole way through. As for escape room board games, I feel like i've already seen everything they have to offer. The first time I played an EXIT game, I was blown away by what boundaries they could push and unique things they could do with the medium. After playing a bunch of those and a few Unlock! games, I find it hard to get excited anymore. We just played EXIT's 2-parter catacombs puzzle which is supposed to be their "big deluxe" one and has a ton of positive reviews- I felt underwhelmed. Most of the puzzles you will figure out before you even find all the pieces to properly solve it, one puzzle will be worded poorly or very abstract and end up frustrating you more than it should, and the final puzzle is usually the only impressive thing in the box. I haven't tried a ton of Unlock! games so maybe that would bring more variety, but I feel like i'm still waiting for something to truly blow me away like the first time I played one and had no idea what I was getting into.
Playing Dead of Winter as a pure co-op is what put the nail in the coffin for me. My group was starting to cool on it already and decided to try and mix it up, but the game is completely dead when you remove the forced tension from the personal objectives/traitor. The decision making process becomes 'where do I get x' then 'go to x and search until you find it'. The highlight of the game is the Crossroad cards but that doesn't hold the rest of the game together.
I think the length is what makes BSG so special. It's really the only social deduction came where you can sabotage the good side and then lie low for a while and the ultimate betrayal is so much sweeter when you managed to fool everybody for 3 hours.
The playing time is a feature not a bug. My favorite game still.
Same. It's the epicness that makes it so special. I disagree with Tom saying that there are other shorter games that give you the same feel.
Came here to say exactly this. We'd purposely play it at the end of the night so we were tired and irritable and having a 3 hour trek ahead of us just made it all the better..mine and my friends favourite game.
I really liked this vid especially the what does it better aspect. As a relatively new gamer this is helpful
It would be interesting to see if the list was substantially different if instead of "games we've cooled on", it was "games which in hindsight weren't great". Several of these games I played and just never understood the hype. Photosynthesis, Bang, Citadels, Exit games, all felt to me worn out after a handful of plays or less. This list makes me feel better about my "gaming instincts" in justifying my hesitation on many of these games. Great video and thanks for the list!
It's uncanny how many of these games I own and still love to play.
Mine are:
-Betrayal at House on the Hill (still nostalgic for it as it got me into the hobby back in 2004)
-Mansions of Madness. I thought this game killed Betrayal, but similarly, there's not much of a game here.
-Resistance: Avalon. I just played this game too much that it got to the point where I no longer enjoyed it unless I was the traitor.
-Pandemic Classic. Still consider it to be a great game but I'm burnt out on it. The Legacy games were enjoyable but also the final nail. It was an obligation to get the group together and the whole ting felt like work. Horrified is just way more fun.
-Heroscape. I'll always love Heroscape, the idea of it, the pre-painted minis, the maps, the fan content, all of it. But it's just too impractical...Not just the setup/tear down but also storage demands if you have a massive collection. Forget about moving to other countries. Different game but Unmatched replaced this.
-Chronicles of Crime. I initially thought this was the perfect replacement to Consulting Detective but I felt you spend too much of the game scanning and scanning until the answer is obvious. Tried 1400 and didn't feel any different.
-Monikers/Time's Up/Blockbuster. These kinds of party games are touted as "hilarious" and I enjoyed them initially but I realized no one else in my group really cared for them. Ironically, they prefer classic charades or a game with more meat.
Wingspan on the ppls isn’t to surprising as I was getting stale on it but Oceania expansion changed everything for me with the new boards. It has many paths to victory now
I would say Legacy Games, as a whole.
For a similar reason that they said about Twilight Imperium. I think I rather mix up my games a lot more, than replaying the same game 10+ times, in a row.
I think it could be a better choice, if you have a really small collection, between you and your friends. But, as a host for boardgaming events, I just can't put that much time into one game, when many people want me to play others, with them. I still get invited to join Legacy games, but I respectfully decline.
TIME Stories is not a game in not my opinion. There was nothing revealed during the game that helped us make better decisions later in the game. It was simply a slog where we did stuff until we visited every location and therefore stumbled upon the ending.
Quite an entertaining video, thank you :) . A similar style list you could do would be games you were excited for, played once, and just felt like you had seen everything the game had to offer and weren't interested in playing it again. Atlantis Rising is that game for me. In terms of this video, Pandemic has gone from an okay game to one I won't play after being burned out by two of the legacy versions of it that I didn't find that interesting but had to play 15 or 16 games of it in a very short time frame (twice!).
I honestly couldn't disagree more about Between Two Cities. All the things Mike and Tom mention seem to be a player and player group problem. I think this game is amazing and unique (and they shouldn't have made that sequel which gave the original a worse name).
I strongly disagree about 7th continent. It being a sandbox game where you can pick up clues for other curses and learn the map makes the game all the enjoyable to me. Also I like the risk of dying and starting over because you learn stuff about the map as you go. The fact you can go anywhere is what makes the game amazing.