Quick Look: Synology DS920+ NAS! w/SMR FRAUD Information!
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- Опубликовано: 19 ноя 2024
- sy.to/ztthy Check out the synology NAS there for more info :D
Thanks again to Synology and Seagate for sending over this hardware for me to look at. "Hey, does the SMB multichannel hack work on this box?" Yes, yes it does.
Want to read more about the SMR debacle? Serve The Home has a good writeup:
www.servetheho...
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Наука
Your attempt at the pun was NASty
UnNASessary roughNAS,...... :)
@@jodajackson4489 I like your cleverNAS.
As an administrator for both ds916+ and ds918+ in a small office, Synology has made a great product for office backups. Both realtime back up (up to 32 per hour) and a long term versioning backup (where the older the files gets to keep less versions per day/week/months the older they get) and both of them works amazingly together.
Only downside on these ds920+ "mid business" or "high home office" tier is the network speed and the RAM for VM.
Synology if you read these comments PLEASE ADD a 5-10GB nic because file server NEEDS it these days.... and an option for a faster cpu + more ram for us who runs VMs.
Our NAS runs both file server, backup and license servers in form of a VMs, all in one neat little Synology box.
I really enjoy your NAS videos.
My current PC (6c/12th, 32GB RAM) might be retired soon to become a NAS so the knowledge you provide has lots of value for me.
Thank you
Underrated, running a PiHole on your Synology.
WTB instructional video
or just use unraid. its 3 clicks to get piehole installed and running
@@jon4715 mariushosting.com/how-to-install-pi-hole-on-your-synology-nas/
I don't have time for shit Pi's, give me a Synology and end of the story.
@@JohnSmith-zl8rz PiHole is software.
I get the extra features coming with Snyology NAS, but in reality, most of us are way better off with an old PC with plenty of SATA ports or PCI lanes and maybe even a few Dell Perc H310 or similar SAS/SATA controllers and you get to plug in a dozen or so drives into a single PC for the fraction of the price. In comparison, $550 for hosting only 4 drives can be seen ridiculous. Instead, you could spend the money or bigger/better drives - which is the main point of a NAS.
Another strong opinon of mine is that SMR drives should not be defended for NAS or I dare to say any non-archival workload. No reason to accept SMR as a widespread solution, regardless of the recent WD marketing drama.
I agree that it should have more than 4 slots for hard drives!
The point in something like this is that its minimal effort, small and low power, so if you barely know what you're doing and just want somewhere to store backups or something and be able to hide it in your closet then something like this isn't too bad, as well an old PC might use upwards of 50W+ just to sit idle all day, aside from that I do agree I'd never buy one for myself especially when old laptops make for almost ideal NAS computers, they usually have one if not two sata ports, sometimes an M.2 and you can always toss the wifi card for a sata adapter for more ports or simply use usb enclosures as they tend to have 2-4 usb ports and as long as it isn't too old it'll probably even have a gigabit nic too.
@@vgamesx1 I can see that, but 50 watts (difference) is 40-50 bucks a year. That's a few years price put into shelf-ready NAS. Honestly, the best reason I heard for these smaller prebuilts ones is they are being neat looking and hassle free. And I don't mind these devices but if you want a prebuilt NAS with like 8+ drives, the prices are really becoming crazy.
It's about the software and ease of use and setup
Nice to see you showing a "server" i can afford ;)
if you want to live on the edge, do raid-0 for your nas.
Pretty sure that eSATA port is only supposed to be used for their expansion units (DX517/1215).
No you can use it as a drive, Ive tested this feature, the bigger challenge is finding an out-of-the-box drive with an e-sata.
HAMR drives really need to show up faster, then we can be done with all this SMR business.
HAMR disks will also be using SMR recording technology, the large density increase the heat assistance gives also allows for much higher write performance which offsets the performance loss. So basically don't get too excited and wait for actual tests so you know what you are getting. arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/02/hamr-dont-hurt-em-laser-assisted-hard-drives-are-coming-in-2020/
"He who controls the Spice." Is it bad that I immediately got the Dune reference. Too Funny Wendle.
I think everyone here immediately got the reference. Nerds!!!! :)
Okay, not boomer. 😅😂🤣Now go 😁n try out the remake cnc. Game 😘👌
The spice must flow.
I wanted a Synology Nas when I was looking for a new appliance, but they don't offer 10gbit until you get into the much more expensive models so I ended up with a qnap instead.
How good is the QNAP? Any problems?
@@Simon74 UI isnt as nice as the synology. but they seem to be similarly capable in feature set. It has been very set and forget so far. The channel "nascompares" have videos on a ton of different qnap/synology models and the UI/features etc.
5 min before watching this video I wrote to WD customer support about my drives being SMR, and I also used word "kerfuffle" to describe the SMR-gate .... great minds think alike :D
I'm a WD fanboy for no real reason but was pleasantly impressed with this NAS. Looking forward to the future for "power users". Great quick look!
the problem with synology is everything is proprietary.
i don't see any future of SMR in desktop or NAS use for anyone, who is even aware of the issue. submarined sure, but why in the world would u torture yourself for no density increase even?
the WD my book drives at 14 TB, that by all consensus are CMR drives is almost the top of desnity and for a sane price. as a customer u get 0 advantage by going SMR, u don't get cheaper prices, or almost none.
the most likely case of course is, that they would heavily submarine SMR garbage and reduce CMR to the "pro" lineup, or in other words, they will be charging more for the basic hardware, that u want so that they can icnrease their profits.
i mean hey sure, there is a place of host managed SMR drives for enterprise, where the big cheaper cost/ TB and the bit higher desnity. what is it now 18 TB SMR vs 16 TB CMR or something, not sure? i mean sure, that all makes sense for enterprise.
for small customers, DM SMR drives make 0 sense. they never made any sense. maybe in the future and i am not even talking about the software catching up here, but rather about the increased density over CMR getting more percentage wise.
SMR rightnow is just garbage for the masses, that don't know anybody, sold to them by marketing lies or rather hiding what garbage it is, because even the hardware industry knows NOT to advertise with SMR.
no one wants it, no one needs it, but i fear like QLC, it will get shoved down our throats against our wills. i certainly won't roll over when the HDD manufacturers cry for higher margins.
SMR does allow for density increase, quite a lot in fact. You're just not being sold it yet. Non heat assisted PMR has right now reached maximum density and is not increasing anymore. HAMR disks are also going to be using SMR recording technology, might not be all of them, who knows till they actually hit the market.
I recently assembled a NAS with a DS416Play with 4x Seagate Exos X16 16tb drives, 41.9TB using SHR. I am quite happy with it so far. I bought the DS416Play years ago and just did not buy the drives.
Dude, info packed vid. You blew through a ton of info! Request: vid on backing up AWS EC2 instance to the Synology. My ears perked up when you mentioned that.
12TB for $99? Hasn't the WD Black *2* TB been $120 for well over a decade now, and still is?
I just bought 4 ironwolf 12tb drives for SGD $510 per unit.
In USD it’s around 400 - 460.
Pretty cheap but not as cheap as being $99. If it’s $99 I would have bought every single drive in the shop.
8 HDD manufacturers disliked this video.
Now 16. Lol
Any reason why at 15:38 it became a DS918+, was there a time vortex in da house? :)
Is there a way to go directly to deep glacier and not just glacier ?
Also if they are PCIe M.2s you could do something evil with a M.2 to pcie adaptor and a 10 gig network card :D
I can not believe the dune reference at the start hahaha brilliant
Which house do you support?
@@mohdfaizal6773Mohd my friend,
You have won this internet duel of obsequiousness today for I can remember the quote, the plot, worms, powers, glowing eyes, deserts and force field fights. Nothing here in my brain about houses hahaha
Not much more to go Seagate Exos if you keep your eye out for deals.
Where's these exos models are made.?
Iron wolfs are whut I can afford
I got regular ironwolfs recently and the EXos drives were 100-200 more where i am. They werent that much more expensive than than the ironwolf pros though.
Exos are great for enterprise scenarios but at their price point you really have to ask yourself what is your most likely use case. Will you have to increase your HD space first or will you suffer a drive failure first? If you are going to have to increase HD space within 2 or 3 years then get Ironwolf(s). If you have very sensitive data that doesn't grow that fast then get Exos or IronWolf(s) Pro. Same thing with how frequently you access the data. From least access to constant access; Ironwolf < IronWolf Pro < Exos.
@@jaimemartinez9792 I wouldn't trust these large sized IW or Reds in an array unless it was raid 1 or 10. Anything I consider worth saving to storage i consider worth not losing. And again the price isn't much more unless you are looking at the very latest capacities.
Nice video and review! Thanks for the info about SMR drives. Had no idea. Just purchased this to help streamline my workflow and for storing photos/videos. Really excited to explore its capabilities.
Not a huge upgrade over the DS918+ it would seem. CPU has better base and boost clocks, and now the memory is DDR4 rather than DDR3 memory. Disappointed that they didn't move to using 10GbE on the network side, as this is perhaps what I miss the most on the DS918+.
With the DS918+ both memory sticks were SODIMM so nothing was soldered on, and was easily swapped out with higher capacity (I went with a third party Kingston XMP Beast 16GB CL11 2400MHz kit, accepting I'm outside of warranty). It would seem from the specs that on the DS920+ there is only a single SODIMM slot, so this is a bit of a disappointment too, although perhaps you won't run into many situations where a lot of memory is used in any case. Still, would have been nice of them not to remove the option.
Well Done, I had to watch the video 3xtime to get all the juicy good geek/tech info.
Wendel, you may have just made my day with the VSAN witness. Got parts coming, but if it works on my 418play or 1517+, then I may do that instead.
17:40 hello from 2022! 20tb drives are still $300-$400
Thank you for the great review. What RAM and SSD for Cache did you use?
I'm just going to say the same thing I say always.
Synology needs a dead simple way to do NAS backup to another Synology NAS over the internet.
An average customer needs offsite backup to approach reliability of cloud solutions. Aside from that, Synology will start selling two NAS devices where they used to sell only one.
Make it a dead simple option, as you can, to connect a NAS at your grandma's house to yours (with VPN option) and select what needs to be backed up to and from each NAS and done.
After that is done, use created connection in a federated manner to share photos accross two instances of Moments (photo app) and so on.
Oh, and get traffic control working with it.
Leon Nat I don’t know if they can make Hyper Backup, Drive Sync or Snapshot Replication any easier.
One thing I don't get about SMR is, when writing fully sequential data you are going to rewrite the following tracks anyway. Do you still pay shingled write penalty?
The sound was a bit quiet compared to the background music when i was listening on headphones. Made it difficult to hear what was being said in some segments.
I’m a photographer/videographer, I want to get the 5 bay model of this NAS. You recommend RAID 6 with 5 6TB drives?
If i want to create a small "dropbox" like service for 4 people with no more than 2TB of space, what should the hardrive configuration be?
I considered using SSDs to expedite speed, but, after watching your video I wonder if I should do something else.
Maybe use some mechanical drives in some RAID configuration and a SSD M.2. drive as cache? Honestly I never really understood what a NAS cache drive does. I can see how it would be helpful on a system when you are streaming into it, or working on large files, but not on a NAS.
Thanks for any thoughts you may have
Great video but very difficult to listen to. Any chance you can post again without the background sound track?
Look, I’m sure you know your stuff and did your homework so I just have to ask. It’s been my understanding that Synology makes it difficult or near impossible to use the eSATA port for anything other then a Synology branded expansion unit which usually starts at around ~$500 USD for 4 bays. So are you sure the eSATA can accept a HDD for backup as you say.
I’m sure the USB drives can do this but I question the eSATA.
Joda Jackson eSata has no problem being recognized you just can’t raid an eSATA multiplier
@@sturmbreakers7817 There shouldn't be any technical reason why you cannot RAID drives behind sata multiplier?
I want to build a home server so bad but don't know what the heck to buy to build. I would prefer ecc memory with a moderate cpu and 6 to 8 drives, probably 4 or 6tb drives. Having trouble figuring out good used or new hardware to buy.
Go get used or reconfigure a sold off set. Hunt for deals.
@@mohdfaizal6773 I've been looking, the problem is that the tutorials and some reddit posts or other forum posts I have read usually have parts that became popular on the second hand market and the listed prices are higher than what was in the tutorial/forum and I don't know what stuff is good. Its not like desktop pc's with a plethora of information where there are so many reviews and threads that you know a lot more about what is good and bad. I'm thinking about the dell or hp ones but they have proprietary power supplies and chasis. I have an extra ATX case that would be good for a build but trying to find a board and CPU with ecc that would work well is a little more challenging. Wish I had wendell or someone that could pick out parts that could be 95% trusted.
How big of an M.2 (or two M.2's) should I look for this sort of setup? Or does it depend on the size of the drives that I'll end up using?
Bigger is better as the ladies say.
It's a scratch disk.
As big as you want, it's not as if there's a minimum or anything just know that a with very small disk you may not see much of a performance benefit due to files being shuffled in and out often, but with a larger disk the effect you get becomes negligible after a certain point so for example a 64GB ssd is probably more than enough to speed up a 1-3TB hdd but upping that to 128GB might only make it the tinniest bit faster.
To me the only reason to go much higher than 128GB is to have a write-cache but I've never really understood why someone would like that idea very much, I mean it takes the same amount of time to copy something, the only difference is it just does it in the background instead.
@@vgamesx1 yah, go watch the linus xmr hard disk explains.
Posted recently too
Run it for a few weeks, then run the Synology tool that analyzes and shows you the GB's you need (or don't need) for considering an M.2 cache.
Nice review. One Quick Question.
Lets say I have DS 920+, and I put in 4 drives. Can I have 2 drives working in RAID 1 (Mirroring) and another 2 drives without any RAID.?
So let say I insert 4*4TB disks, I have now 4TB (RAID1) and another 8TB from NO-RAID configuration making total usable storage of 12TB?
Yes disk 1 and 2 as the raid drives would be volume 1 4tb usable and the other two disks would be disk 3= volume 2 4tb and disk 4 volume 3 4tb. You could also do a jbod of disk 3 and 4 as one volume 2 with 8tb but ypu would loose all data if one disk fails.
So the OS unix-like, but proprietary? then I'd prefer the control of building my own nas.
Thanks, very informative and useful.
Best review ever! Thank you!
Really very good. Just a nit: That background music is distracting. It's easier to listen if you're talking over good old-fashioned silence.
Just wondering why you recommended a RAID 5 instead of a SHR setup as the drives can be replaced with same size or bigger (to gain the space 2 or more needed BUT one at a time replacement) because if you use RAID 5 then even if you put in bigger drives then you never gain the space unless you replace them ALL.
www.synology.com/en-global/knowledgebase/DSM/help/DSM/StorageManager/storage_pool_expand_replace_disk
I also wonder why no mention of SHR and SHR-2.
Links with topics on the bar helps allot. Like Gamers nexus has.
Never SMR :-(
Guys, 1 GB LAN NAS and is NOT upgradable, you will be stuck with 100MB transfer speeds for years to come, forget it, just go for a NAS with at least 2.5G Nic's.
How does this stack up against the Helios64? The expandable memory is neat, but it seems like the rest of the cost is for the software. Would running ZFS RAID-Z6 on one of these two be realistic? I'm probably only looking at four 1-2 TB drives.
Does SHR-2 provide equivalent corruption protection to Raid-6?
Yes. SHR is designed for 1 disk failure and SHR-2 is designed for 2 disk failure but you need a minimum of 4 drives to implement it. SHR is just software that selects the appropriate raid configurations to maximize your available space but its true value is that it can apply a combination of different types of raids when the hard drives are of different sizes. Google "Synology Raid Calculator" to play around with raid different sizes of hard drives and raid settings.
@zack
Not by itself as that is a file system feature (outside of ZFS)
On a synology you can prevent data corruption by using the BTRS file system for your volumes, enabling checksums, and enabling data scrubbing.
This is all covered by default settings when creating a file system and works with both SHR and standard RAID volumes 🙂
Here was the first hit on goggle
blog.synology.com/how-data-scrubbing-protects-against-data-corruption
Any plans to test a Synology NAS with encryption turned on? Maybe a new video?
Is it really such a good idea to use "just any" SSD as a cache drive?
I'm not sure how Synology handles the cache, but my self-build NAS using ZFS chews through SSDs.
The first SSD reached 96% wearout in ~1 1/2 years and my second SSD is now at ~10% wearout after 3 months.
I think next time I buy a SSD that is made for this amount of writes.
Ideally you'd use an optane drive, but those prices...
That Synology is likely to be using Ironwolf SSD; so use something like that. Twice the cost though almost. Look at enterprise write intensive role units.
Can RAM be used as a cache?
The reason I am asking is that I will have DIY NAS and already have 48GB spare, it will be connected to i7-8700 CPU @ 3.20GHz (6cores/12t). I think there are 4-slots motherboards for that socket.
Melvin Klein You care to elaborate this sound like a very interesting situation . Have an 18wide(raid10) NAS myself and was thinking of adding ssd cache to it.
@@ferror18 yikes, whut enterprise chores u guys doing?
Grab a proper former face book server, n use it up
Err, I wanna trust it, but Btrfs? Is that even close to a sane choice, given the available alternatives? Shouldn’t a storage appliance be bullet-proof at, you know, *storage*? Isn’t any ZFS option superior to this in nearly every way?
Edit: *sigh*, RUclips markdown strikes again.
Great video, thanks very much...
20 TB hard drives are not $250 but 18 TB hard drives were $250 yesterday at Best buy
I wouldnt use raid 5 with huge drives, sometimes during the rebuild corruption and or surviving drives ends up dying during the process
The audio mixing seems a lil off here. Lower the music, and get Wendell louder(/cleaner? voice seemed to be generally 'off')
It’s almost like the audio is delayed just slightly between L and R feels weird to hear.
4 year later , still shouldn’t use smr drives in a nas , also if your using a write cache ssd up to 900 seconds of data could be unwritten to the pool so if both ssds get booted you lose your pool and data (recovery software is needed)
What are the read and write speeds of this thing maxed out with 8gb ram, 2 ssds and some fast hard drives on raid 0; via usb? Are we talking 1,000MB/s?
Good review wendell
when using 20tb hdds (or anything beyond 8tb for that matter) arent you scared of read errors? even seagate ironwolfs only have 1/10^15 ures and are kinda likely to have a read error at 8tb. most drives are only speced at 1/10^14.
or is this generally not a problem?
DS918+ ? 15:35
Why use raid on a home nas? Raid is about up time, not data security. In a corporate setup there is a point to raid, it's really bad to have to pay 100 employees to do nothing for a couple of hours while you deal with some drive fails in a server, so raid lets you soldier on and fix the issue at a more convenient time. At home you're not in the same time of time crunch, so no need for raid - you'll want a proper backup instead.
This friday there were a thunderstorm where I live and when I got home from work I found that the storm had tripped my breakers. I powered everything up again and discovered that I had 2 dead drives in my 5 drive server. Had I been running raid, not only would I have had less capacity, but depending on my raid choice I would probably have lost all my data rather than just two fifths.
I really don't see the point of raid in a home environment, but everyone seems to be doing it because "That's what the pros does"..
I do a lot of work from home, RAID means I dont have any downtime if a drive dies mid project. For Joe Six-Pack wanting a media server JBOD and sane backups will work just fine.
strandvaskeren RAID also allows you to aggregate your speed allowing you to saturate a/or multiple 10 gigabyte links.
Those jokes as NASty
He tried. Roses are reds,
Violets are kinda blue.🤔🎉
Follow up and watch the news streams.😉
Or krisTa will suffer n haunt YoooOo 😅😜😘
"Hello people watching in 2022!"
Oh, hey!
I thought it was only one vendor that explicitly specified SMR drives for NAS (though others were not specifying some desktop/etc drives as SMR). Was it anyone else in addition to WD who did that?
_NASty_
The punisher has been dispatched to my location
How is SHR different from RAID-5?
Basicly SHR allows for dynamicly adding a 4th disk if you set up with only 3
Firmware cannot fix the speed of dm-smr (it can fix the DNF error thought), they would have to Write 100GB per disk wait 1 hour then resume rebuild then wait again for 1 hour (software can't fix a physical problem)
anyone help with what is the better choice Seagate ST6000VN001 (most retailers list this as the 7200rpm ST6000VN0033 like amazon) or the more recent and slower 5400 rpm ST6000VNZ01
ENGAGEMENT
Dis engaging, n social distancing 😜😅
Here we are in 2022, and 20 TB hard drive is 650$ :) . Never predict the future that is too near , it can quickly proof how wrong the prediction was ;)
smr feels like 2 steps back..... (if not more)
Depends on the application. I can see it working well for cost-efficient density in the future with SMR-aware filesystems/etc. But for now drive-managed SMR is not a drip-in replacement for conventional drives in many applications.
I desperately want them to update some of the Rackstation line.
It's still a shame that 1GB is the standard and not 2,5 and 5. Even 10G on mainboard should be fine now. I pay the $100 extra if it's mandatory and not made out of gold.
Does anyone know if any synology nas will recognize or allow me to add an hba card so that I can connect my ds4243 of drives.
is the problem of write-cache still exist?
Thanks.
NO 20 TB Drives are not cheap and or exist lol
From viewer in 2022
You recommended RAID 5 for 4 x 3.5mm drive set up, but didn't mention synology's SHR, which is basically RAID5, but with the option to swap out larger drives over time, why didn't you go there, is there a good reason not to use SHR?!
new cam and sound settings? Seems worse than usual. Visuals are washed out, and sound is thin.
Yeah I don't really care about visuals personally but the sound is really bad.
weirdly, afaik, no
@@Level1Techs Well, I did just move, so maybe it's just my new room acoustics. Carl says the sound is worse off than usual as well though, so not sure, not gonna re-watch with headphones on :P
@@Bynming tbh, I don't really care much for either, just noticed that it seemed worse than usual.
"In 2022, 12TB hard drive will be $99, and 20TB will be $250. Hello people watching that in 2022"
Well, hello there :-D
Dune baby!
Thanks
Come for the tech, stay for the puns...
Hello from 2022 😉
I really want one of those but for $500 I can build my own and still have lots left over.
why not SHR?
Lol best spice reference ever
Can you use m.2 nvme for 10Gb nic?
For the DS918+ I see someone did a bit of investigation into this. On that generation it was sadly not an option:
nascompares.com/ds918-and-ds1019-10gbe-upgrade-via-m-2-slot/
So is this the best nas for 500 dollars
Why not just take an old Desktop and trick it out with better Ethernet throughput etc? Very expensive!
Thanks for your knowledge! I just bought this Unit and I'm just having a bad experience... I have 2x WD40EFAX-68JH4N0 (4TB), 1x Seagate ST3000VN000 (3TB) and 1x Seagate ST1000DM003 (1TB) in SHR (Btrfs), it has been parity checking for the last 4 days! Transfer speeds are dismal 15MB/s at most, although I have a 2 LAN connection bonded. (2000 Mbps, Full duplex, MTU 4000) Can anyone help me get this thing running like it should? Windows 10 x64 with CAT5. SMB3 is active, and Windows set to SMB Direct. But I can't' know for sure till this parity check is over, now at 45%. The Synology community blog is useless...
Shingled magnetic hard drives?
@@Level1Techs I don't know what that means. The drive is a NAS drive sold to me, the sticker shows NAS.
You really think they'll cost that little? 17:38
Good video, but the sound is TOO LOW!!
Host managed vs Drive managed is the whole difference in the SMR tech though? because SMR will be the future of rust, just gotta find a way to tame the beast...
XPENology
Too expensive not to build your own, if you can.
i need nas ;D
As cringy as ever Wendell
never change, pls ask Ryan to wear a hat or wig, his shiny dome is blinding.
edit: make it a maga hat, viewer engagement will skyrocket.
Leave Ryan alone.
SSD Cache on gigabit is pointless