Their business is solely concerned about "lean manufacturing" which pretty much answers your question. There are some instances where ease of manufacturing, assembly and cost reduction can lead to ease of repair, but not very many.
Q1: Does the Munro group care about ease of repair(?) A1: no. Q2: or does everything have to be about how fast a company can ship these things out and profit(?) A2: yes. okay next question.
Most people are not going to realize what they are getting into as far as "WEIGHT"-- unless they are already driving a one ton diesel, this thing is going to feel nothing like their regular gas trucks. That extra weight drives very differently and you have to get used to it; it takes some adjustment. It takes longer for braking, it wears tires faster, it sinks in the mud immediately, etc. Heavy trucks are a different animal
Anyone wanting an idea of this weight should know it doesn't feel much different from towing an extra 3-5k pounds. To reduce it is where EREV fits well in the truck market, giving those who generally travel unhitched more traditional weight (of ~6k possibly instead of 9k lbs) and a 60-90KWh battery, instead of ~200KWh. Chrysler's Ramcharger is supposed to do this and have a 3.0l 6cyl on board. Looking fwd to my deposit giving me a crack at this formula.
I posted elsewhere that F-250s make up 43% of F-Series production and they weigh 7,700 lbs which is within 500 - 700 pounds of GM’s BEV pickups. Although I never found the data to support, another viewer stated the diesel F-250s were >8K pounds.
The Sierra EV feels surprisingly light. I've driven cars that handled worse. Didn't take it off-road or try any serious corners, but it's great in a straight line.
Regarding the brake size, regen braking is almost insignificant when you start talking about emergency/panic stops. Some EVs will disable regen braking as soon as the ABS is active (my old Bolt and Model 3 did this). So, while the friction brakes are not used much during typical driving, they must be sized to stop the vehicle (and any additional weight it might be towing/hauling) in a panic stop situation or in the event of a drive system fault when regen may be disabled (or even when the battery is 100% charged and regen braking is limited). My EV9 is capable of over 250kw of regenerative braking (which is about 350hp) but still has 14" brakes at all 4 corners because it weighs 6000lbs, rated to carry 1200lbs and rated to tow 5000lbs.
Agreed! Also not only emergency panic stops, but also when the battery is full (100-80%) regen braking is affected so appropriately sized friction brakes are needed to safely stop the vehicle for the first few km of driving around after a charge.
I too would like to see the "as found" configuration on everything looked at, at least in photos. The setting shot in a video clip is very important to orient the viewer.
You might have taken a picture of the air shields before you took them off. Then you do an insert during edit with a brief voice-over. So we could see what you started with.
Car and Driver did not like the brakes. We also have reservations about braking performance while towing considering the fact that during our regular 70-to-zero-mph braking routine of six stops in close succession, the unloaded Silverado demonstrated significant fade, emitting puffs of smoke from the brakes during the later stops and the distances growing by nearly 20 feet between the first and last stops.
Now that it's public knowledge that GM sells all the data its vehicles gather about their customers' driving times, speeds, style and routes to third parties for its own profit, I'm amazed anyone is still willing to buy anything they make.
Yeah that's pretty crazy, a brake pad upgrade looks like it would be a necessity for anyone towing with these. Though most trailers will have trailer brakes for anything over a certain weight.
The battery pack has to be contributing to a good chunk of the curb weight. It is the larger than Cyber and Lightening. Over 200KW is huge and the only reason it can tow a distance.
And the only reason I bought a Silverado EV. Range is king on a truck and I'm not a Chevy fan. If a cyber truck would have had 500 mi range for the lightning have 500 mi range I would have bought it at first. But I'm loving the Chevy so far
Hey gang, I finally this episode to be extremely informative and helpful in my day-to-day work and the stamping plant. Please use my motto. The kindness is always free the Highlander.😊
It weighs a staggering 2,000-3,200# more than the similar trim rivian lightning and cts though. It's even heavier than a loaded first gen h1 with full fluids. 🙂 Makes me wonder how much the upcoming ram rev 1500 ev truck will weigh with a rumored 229kwh large pack&168kwh entry level pack. As the new dodge charger daytone evs are 5,800# with just 100kwh pack's and 2 motors. So 400# over a loaded model X in weight. 🤔
Were there aero covers under the drive units which were removed off camera? Seems as if there should be. Also the battery pack, there were a lot of small holes that seem as if they would allow water, mud, salt, snow, etc. to pack up in there and cause corrosion.
As someone that is currently re-engineering an old ICE car into an EV, I can see that the weight vs range tradeoff is significant. A way to get a rough estimate of this is to take one tenth of the weight figure of the complete vehicle in lbs and divide that number into the battery kWh storage capacity number. It appears illogical but the result provides an reasonable estimate of the vehicles range in miles. For example, one tenth of the weight of a 5500 lb vehicle is 550. Divide that into a battery capacity of 105 kWh (105000/550) and you get the result of 191 miles of range. Were the vehicle 1000 lbs lighter the range would increase to 234 miles. A 22.5% increase. Or it could achieve the same 191 mile range with a 86kWh battery, which would have contributed to the significant weight reduction. From simple calculations like this we can see that the vehicle weight has a big effect on an EV's range.
Thanks for the overview guys, excellent as always. I assume there is rear cover removed from the rear motor, but still that cable on the bottom of the motor is just looking to get crushed or gashed!
And the flat heat exchanger next to it. Those are very soft / fragile. If there's a rock underneath while the bed gets loaded w a pallet it'll squat and possibly hit the rock... Hopefully there was a strong protection plate of some sort there that they removed prior to filming ?
24:43 There's no replacement for dis... capacity. Especially in the world of trucks. And there's no amount of aero work that can be done to replace the raw energy capacity needed for many truck functions. Yes, we understand that the Silverado EV is heavy, but delete the partially structural battery pack, and the result is a complete chassis and powertrain with a very similar weight to the curb weight of an ICE Silverado. I get that some people are Tesla super fans, but we also need to acknowledge that up to this point, we could buy any format Tesla we wanted, so long as it's a sedan. But building trucks requires a different design philosophy and toolkit. The Cybertruck was Tesla's attempt to break away from their sedan/crossover mindset, but what they ended up building was a nice SUV. We could also compare Rivian's strategy, which was to just make a smaller truck with 10-15% less frontal area. In either case, though, open the Tonneau cover and/or hitch up a trailer, and you're now stuck with EV "trucks" that have 40% smaller batteries but 50% less towing range than the Silverado EV. Any long-time truck owner already knows this, and they already understand that there are inherent tradeoffs required to build a truck with the required capabilities. Sure, it might be less efficient in base trim, but if you're buying a truck to drive it around in the base configuration, you didn't really need a truck in the first place. You just needed a commuter car.
The idea that long range towing = work truck is the telltale sign of someone who has no idea what he's talking about. Work trucks don't typically drive long distances, look no further than BEV commercial vans. Work trucks are all about cost and massive battery packs are antithetical to that. Now if you mean a truck to tow your toys then yes, that's where brute pack size becomes important.
@@boostav Nice cope. It depends on what the truck is used for and where. I totally agree that not all work trucks need more than 300 miles of range, and GM does offer trucks with smaller batteries for that. However, claiming that no work trucks need 400 to 600 miles of base range is just ignorant, and it tells me that you have very limited experience using trucks for work. Not that I care to make this a pissing contest, but I have been actively working on, in, and with trucks for over 30 years now.
I'm avg 2.5 mi/kw on my Silverado EV. EPA is 450. I'm getting close to 500 highway 70mph. Who cares if efficiency is a little higher in the cyber truck if it doesn't have the range to accomplish your use case. I'm loving it so far.
Not terrible for a vehicle that size. Same as my wife's I-pace, which is much smaller. Aero is the biggest contributor to aero efficiency. Weight causes friction but at highway speeds aerodynamics are far more of an issue.
The more I see the more this truck turns me off. The fact that someone forgot to attach the brake hose on the assembly line doesn’t inspire confidence about the torque settings throughout the rest of the vehicle. In the I could see the bottom of that truck and it’s thin protective sheet metal with random open threaded holes, for the battery rusting out pronto!
@@bad50 I have no doubt of this. However I would expect anything this expensive to have proper corrosion resistance. Regardless of who manufacturers it. It's indicative of cost cutting. Understandable on a Kia or lesser vehicle, not on this. Not to me anyway.
@@johnnicol8598 re: "Understandable on a Kia or lesser vehicle, not on this." you will find this same rusting on the half shafts of the ROLLS ROYCE SPECTRE.
My theory on the weight is the rush to production. They wanted to get these out as fast as possible to join the EV market and made cost effective construction moves. The big Ultium packs in these weigh as much as a small car (3000lbs), their in house motors are very large and heavy. Its GM's "2nd" gen BEV but its a first gen product otherwise.
They actually chose the ambitious route. Anyone could stick a 120-140kWh battery in a truck and end up with crappy towing range and terrible charging. Innovation was pushing range and charging to the next level, which is what this does.
The Ford F-150 Lightning has a large aluminum alloy rear control arm because it is a very different suspension design: the Lightning has semi-trailing arms, but the Silverado EV has double A-arms.
Suggestion: y’all dive deeply into micro details too soon. Starting with general overview first would be helpful to those of us that are not automotive engineers
The true value of a vehicle review, is knowing if you are getting a good value vs other vehicles. So the technical info in these videos is great, but it needs to be put into context for the layman. I get you sell your more in depth reports, but for these videos, maybe you could "grade" different aspects of the reviewed vehicle. Like you give the suspension a B or a B+, give the materials used a C- , the assembly of all the part a A, the durability gets a C+, that kind of thing. Sandy's videos are great, but Munro has gone way to far into advertising for other companies and products, and if Sandy is not in a video saying what is crap, then people would get better value in understanding WHY they should get 1 vehicle over another, as THAT info is really helpful to the public.
GM loves their steel and MASSIVE bolts/fasteners, this thing is nearly 9000lbs, a full 2000 lbs heavier than cyberbeast. I know that 450mi range 200kwh battery pack is driving the oversized suspension and brake system. Curious to see how the GEN 2 modules look.
What wheel diameter does this truck have? There is a lot of clearance from the front brake calipers to the wheels, so it looks like these are brakes designed to fit in the 17" wheels of the WT trim, but in an RST truck, perhaps with optional wheels... which are up to 24". The sidewalls are so short that it does likely have the 275/50R24 tires (leaving 3.5" of spare room radially around the caliper).
I think those front brakes are more of a universal setup. Those 4 big bolts allow for mounting different size brackets to account for multiple different caliper sizes. This way they can adapt to whatever size wheel is needed, but still using the same control arms across everything.. This makes it very future proof across different platforms also.
@@brianb-p6586 Yes.. that's why I gave my opinion on why I think they didn't do that in this case. They didn't suddenly change the design for no reason. Also, I've changed brakes on many different vehicles.. I've pulled engines and rebuilt them.. I've pulled apart manual transmissions and put in new synchronizer kits.. rebuilt differentials, etc. I have scan tools and oscilloscope and do diagnostics also. I'm not new here. ;)
15:17 GM outsourced the manufacturing of the battery enclosure to Magna, so it might be worth clarifying who is responsible for which aspects of the pack manufacturing.
Looks like the engineers worked backwards and designed a truck around a huge battery pack. Rather than to design the battery pack to fit the needs of the truck. The result is a heavy inefficient truck.
Tell that to the people that want to use something like this to haul a big trailer around and not have to find a charging station every hour and a half! The vehicle manufacturer can control the aerodynamics of the vehicle itself, but they can not control the aerodynamics of what someone wants to tow behind it, and that means, in order to have halfway decent range, it's gonna need a big battery like this in order to do it. If you don't need a vehicle this big to do whatever you are doing with your particular use case, then buy something smaller.
I wonder why the EV Silverado switched to cast aluminum UCA's from forged aluminum on Sierra and ICE Silverado? My guess is its supply chain related as forgings are in limited supply.
12:08 So what I heard is GM is okay with increased costs that result in increased redundancy and improved safety, but some automakers are attempting to reduce costs in ways that could affect redundancy and safety.
re: "some automakers are attempting to reduce costs in ways that could affect redundancy and safety." bingo, because no OEM "willfully" wants to risk a Class Action Suit or "willfully" wants to risk having to pay out a $ Billion (with a "B") in Warranty Claims on the back end. # WE'VE SEEN THIS MOVIE
Can you do a rough cost estimate video? Super curious to hear your thoughts on how much it costs GM to build these and how much would they cost if they ever reach volume (100k/year?)
If rotated regularly, kept at the proper inflation psi, and the alignment is in spec. Baring heavy tow usage or aggressive acceleration? It should do just fine like any other heavy powerful vehicle on the market. 👍🏻
@@bad50 Yeah, even Ford had a good shot at it, got them power outlet for the tradies. But same range issue so redneck folks need something that can be repaired in the sticks. Ford is bleeding with lightnings converted for desperation sales in countries that are run by rednecks and drive on the left. GM would be bankrupt if not Joe got to like Mary.....
Has anyone discussed the possibility of wiring major roads, red lights and highways with above mounted electric lines like on trains and then using a smaller battery for in between? Think of how much weight could be saved and this how much more efficient…. The cost would be huge yes, but…
And when they routinely fall down, still live, in bad weather they ebergize wet ground and water. The vehicle pantographs fail and tangle. They're fragile and subject to mobs pulling them down to disrupt traffic. No, pantographs and catenary lines solve fewer problems than they can cause.
@@calholliit wasn't my comment. I was just explaining what "mos" meant. With that said, you're right; a vehicle is a depreciating asset. Tesl also hasn't broken even on its investment in the Cybertruck yet either; at best, it will do so by the end of this year, according to Elon Musk. He had initially stated that it would take 18 months of production to become profitable.
Q: Can I get a cybertruck with no stainless body at a reduced cost? A: no, you're just going to have to sever your whole hand clear to the bone AND LIKE IT. (as a fashion statement) legit Pirate Hooks are now making a come back. enjoy.
The battery cover is going to rust in a hurry in Michigan. That super thin sheet metal he pulled down with one finger is gonna rust thru as soon as the paint gets chipped. I don't know anyone who looks at the mpg and worries about range, unless you live in Montanna maybe.
Exactly what I was thinking it seems so thin and the battery enclosure is probably made out of steel like all Tesla this no good in salty roads if you look at the VW iD4 it’s all made of aluminum and the bash plate too.
@@V10PDTDI At least with the 4680 Y, Tesla is moving to an aluminum lower panel. This has the side benefit of melting and dropping the batteries in the event of a fire.
@@4rwayner7 - When parked on a steep hill with a maximum (or overloaded) towing load, the vehicle must be able to remain parked and not slide backwards!
You can't tow with an EV.. just get it out of your head. It overheats and runs out of juice in 100 miles.. Just forget about towing, unless it's a short trip. It has the power-- it just doesn't have the battery.
Given that both the Hummer and Silverado are high priced, low volume vehicles it is puzzling that not much shared between the platforms. A lot of parallel investment and development with neither vehicle likely to make any profit. Like the Ford F-150, GM is going to haemorrhage money building and selling these vehicles.
Not shared between the BT1XX platforms? Almost everything under the skin is shared. Sierra EV and Silverado EV are the same under the skin. Hummer is a widened version of the same platform - the control arms and steering tie-rods are longer to get the wheels out further. Battery module is the same. There's more coming on the same platform, too.
All wheel steering. Presumably electric & 12 volt system? I guess next video. It’s easy to build a prototype, ladder frame, no innovation. Same old. Please point out the compromises.
good question ... i wish they would read comments on other videos and find questions that matter and talk about those because they aren't saying anything that matters here
?? Not sure what you are asking. Yes, this has a 12 volt electrical system. And no, it is not at all easy to design and build a prototype. FYI this vehicle structure is unibody and has no major components shared with the combustion-engine T1XX vehicles. It has been in the works for years.
@@bikeaddictbp thanks for reply, AWS was biggest reason for Tesla to go to 48 volt, otherwise need HD jumper cable size wiring. Tesla also gets on-board air compressor for adjustable suspension. I don’t know what else justifies move to 48v. I am surprised it’s unibody, but then I’m surprised people,still buy the Hummer - which IS basically an unrefined prototype. This video was very superficial - I’ll wait on a teardown.
@@websitemartian yes, quick look, but mostly to discuss aero, plastic parts. It was like in-store product appraisal without opening the box. From the missus.
Thanks Jordan and Kevin gor pointing out how the GM twin trucks are made and its design cost fails and how inefficient it is, it is one BIG🐄 Pig🐷, IMHO, I'm sure there is no profit in those trucks.
20:52 - because: TRUCK. despite any fancy add-ons over and above a WT (unlike the Cyber Camino) the Silverado RST must be able to go out and perform REAL WORK for at least 5 minutes without something breaking or having parts fall off the bloody thing, and is thus spec'd to carry 1400 lbs in the bed. this payload rating of course is in ADDITION to having to support the 2818 lbs of the 200 kWh battery pack already married to chassis (ie, a measurement btw that comes from your own scales there at Munro). okay this is the reason then for the use of steel over aluminum for the rear lower control arms, so see you don't have to your waste time disassembling anything at that wheel end because the answer's RIGHT THERE. 👀
No manufacturer designs a trailer hitch and mounting location on the frame to take a vertical drop with the entire weight of the vehicle from several feet onto concrete.
@@dvader3263 You must not have seen his video today. lol... and you're just wrong. The fact that it broke that easily is a huge problem that Elon is going to be confronted with one way or another. I hope he gets ahead of it and makes them stronger immediately. If not, he's going to get another class action lawsuit. The clock is ticking now.. EVERYONE is now aware of the problem and if he just ignores it, a judge is going to throw the book at him in a few years.
@@dvader3263 WhistlinDiesel Made a follow up video to address this. I love the CT. I am order number ~187,000th and plan to get it after they fix the range, but this is a real concern that I am sure Tesla can fix. ruclips.net/video/_scBKKHi7WQ/видео.html
Munro - Silverado EV main problem is, its NOT very efficient. its too HEAVY and has Large battery for really DUMB range. not maxing out DU and themal system for efficiency. Silverado EV in 2024 stil cant use NACS , has wrong location for charge port.
MUNRO live - so in 2024 Chevy is making a Silverado EV that's built with outdated horse & buggy technology......lol. it's too bad TESLA Cybertruck is outselling it and every other EV truck in the USA. Cybertruck even outsells Rivian by 3:1.....lol.
The only way I’d own a cyber truck is parking it in a storage unit on the other side of town and taking an Uber home. There’s no way I’d want to be seen in that silly machine.
Watching now @ 7:54 and my question is, in what ways can you say that the anticipated “TRAIL BOSS” trim will be different from the meat and potatoes of this trim? Thanks.
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It's always great to have Kevin and Jordan. No koolaid fanboy stuff, no nonsense, just engineering. Love it.
Your comment was cringe af
Jordan is the most articulate and eloquent engineer I’ve ever seen on YT. More of him, please.
Thank you Jordan and Kevin for an excellent engineering analysis.
Our pleasure!
Leave it to Munro to discover a new Silverado EV recall for a missing brake line retaining bolt
nah, that was intentional weight reduction.
Doh! Wow, yeah that was kinda serious!
This needs more attention.
Silverado quality control, depends on how much alcohol the workers had on the job......😂
@@markplott4820 That is bad form - did you start the day with alcohol?
Great explanation of cost trade-offs at the end.
Thanks
Does the Munro group care about ease of repair or does everything have to be about how fast a company can ship these things out and profit
WATCH A FEW MORE VIDEOS TO SEE WHAT'S IMPORTANT.
Their business is solely concerned about "lean manufacturing" which pretty much answers your question. There are some instances where ease of manufacturing, assembly and cost reduction can lead to ease of repair, but not very many.
Sandy's ideal car would be made of Legos; all plastic and snaps together.
Q1: Does the Munro group care about ease of repair(?) A1: no.
Q2: or does everything have to be about how fast a company can ship these things out and profit(?) A2: yes.
okay next question.
@@pasad335 Not quite - Lego pieces can be disassembled and re-assembled... unlike Sandy's ideal disposable vehicle.
Most people are not going to realize what they are getting into as far as "WEIGHT"-- unless they are already driving a one ton diesel, this thing is going to feel nothing like their regular gas trucks. That extra weight drives very differently and you have to get used to it; it takes some adjustment. It takes longer for braking, it wears tires faster, it sinks in the mud immediately, etc. Heavy trucks are a different animal
Anyone wanting an idea of this weight should know it doesn't feel much different from towing an extra 3-5k pounds. To reduce it is where EREV fits well in the truck market, giving those who generally travel unhitched more traditional weight (of ~6k possibly instead of 9k lbs) and a 60-90KWh battery, instead of ~200KWh. Chrysler's Ramcharger is supposed to do this and have a 3.0l 6cyl on board. Looking fwd to my deposit giving me a crack at this formula.
I posted elsewhere that F-250s make up 43% of F-Series production and they weigh 7,700 lbs which is within 500 - 700 pounds of GM’s BEV pickups. Although I never found the data to support, another viewer stated the diesel F-250s were >8K pounds.
She's a heavy beast for sure. Won't win too many acceleration races. But she's a truck so who cares, as long as she is functional.
The Sierra EV feels surprisingly light. I've driven cars that handled worse. Didn't take it off-road or try any serious corners, but it's great in a straight line.
@@luckylanno A bulldozer is great in a straight line.. that doesn't mean much.
Regarding the brake size, regen braking is almost insignificant when you start talking about emergency/panic stops. Some EVs will disable regen braking as soon as the ABS is active (my old Bolt and Model 3 did this). So, while the friction brakes are not used much during typical driving, they must be sized to stop the vehicle (and any additional weight it might be towing/hauling) in a panic stop situation or in the event of a drive system fault when regen may be disabled (or even when the battery is 100% charged and regen braking is limited). My EV9 is capable of over 250kw of regenerative braking (which is about 350hp) but still has 14" brakes at all 4 corners because it weighs 6000lbs, rated to carry 1200lbs and rated to tow 5000lbs.
Agreed! Also not only emergency panic stops, but also when the battery is full (100-80%) regen braking is affected so appropriately sized friction brakes are needed to safely stop the vehicle for the first few km of driving around after a charge.
Great presentation, and thanks to Andrew from Spain! 👏👏👏
Glad you enjoyed it!
Happy I put this in my watch later and finally got around to this video!
I've read that there's quite a bit of NVH geberated inside the cab due to the Mid-Gate. Have you observed this?
I too would like to see the "as found" configuration on everything looked at, at least in photos. The setting shot in a video clip is very important to orient the viewer.
Andrew is the Real Deal
thank you both for the great analysis.
Our pleasure!
You might have taken a picture of the air shields before you took them off. Then you do an insert during edit with a brief voice-over. So we could see what you started with.
That would be a good idea, but they never do that... perhaps to keep the "Live" theme (although we know these are not live).
Munro Live, great video keep it up
Thanks!
Thank you, Andrew! They owe you a bolt 😂
Car and Driver did not like the brakes.
We also have reservations about braking performance while towing considering the fact that during our regular 70-to-zero-mph braking routine of six stops in close succession, the unloaded Silverado demonstrated significant fade, emitting puffs of smoke from the brakes during the later stops and the distances growing by nearly 20 feet between the first and last stops.
That's very concerning...
Now that it's public knowledge that GM sells all the data its vehicles gather about their customers' driving times, speeds, style and routes to third parties for its own profit, I'm amazed anyone is still willing to buy anything they make.
Yeah that's pretty crazy, a brake pad upgrade looks like it would be a necessity for anyone towing with these. Though most trailers will have trailer brakes for anything over a certain weight.
@@anydaynow01 If they are smoking brakes empty that is not a good look. More like larger brakes.
The battery pack has to be contributing to a good chunk of the curb weight. It is the larger than Cyber and Lightening. Over 200KW is huge and the only reason it can tow a distance.
And the only reason I bought a Silverado EV. Range is king on a truck and I'm not a Chevy fan. If a cyber truck would have had 500 mi range for the lightning have 500 mi range I would have bought it at first. But I'm loving the Chevy so far
re: "Over 200KW is huge and the only reason it can tow a distance."
Great to see another manufacturer try to enter the electric truck market. Could one of them please build a truck with a bigger bed in mind
One step at a time. Crew cab short bed is the most popular body style, so that's what they're starting with.
Hey gang, I finally this episode to be extremely informative and helpful in my day-to-day work and the stamping plant. Please use my motto. The kindness is always free the Highlander.😊
It's clearly built to do work. I don't mind weight if it comes with serviceability in the future too. I see a lot of serviceability here.
Cybertruck doesn't need servicing for 200k miles, let that sink in...😂
It weighs a staggering 2,000-3,200# more than the similar trim rivian lightning and cts though.
It's even heavier than a loaded first gen h1 with full fluids. 🙂
Makes me wonder how much the upcoming ram rev 1500 ev truck will weigh with a rumored 229kwh large pack&168kwh entry level pack.
As the new dodge charger daytone evs are 5,800# with just 100kwh pack's and 2 motors. So 400# over a loaded model X in weight. 🤔
Cybertruck actually has more use case, & offers better UTILITY than any other truck.
It weighs+9,000 lbs like Carol Doda....😂
It was built tough to do work as long as body damages are not a big deal.
Great video they finally jacked the truck up enough so the tall man can get under comfortably to do is work.
Were there aero covers under the drive units which were removed off camera? Seems as if there should be. Also the battery pack, there were a lot of small holes that seem as if they would allow water, mud, salt, snow, etc. to pack up in there and cause corrosion.
Yes we remove the aero covers so we have a better view.
As someone that is currently re-engineering an old ICE car into an EV, I can see that the weight vs range tradeoff is significant. A way to get a rough estimate of this is to take one tenth of the weight figure of the complete vehicle in lbs and divide that number into the battery kWh storage capacity number. It appears illogical but the result provides an reasonable estimate of the vehicles range in miles.
For example, one tenth of the weight of a 5500 lb vehicle is 550. Divide that into a battery capacity of 105 kWh (105000/550) and you get the result of 191 miles of range. Were the vehicle 1000 lbs lighter the range would increase to 234 miles. A 22.5% increase. Or it could achieve the same 191 mile range with a 86kWh battery, which would have contributed to the significant weight reduction. From simple calculations like this we can see that the vehicle weight has a big effect on an EV's range.
By that logic a cybertruck would have 180 miles of range
I think your math is pretty far off, and more of just a huge fat guess
Great Show - Thank You
Why are there so many little holes under the chassis? I would think a lot of dust would get in there.
prevents sitting water from corroding out the sheet.
Kevin has dropped his "itself" habit.. Well done.
A Unibody, nice, so it wont break in the middle.
Reminds me of Jeep Cherokees in hard use. They just destroy themselves.
Thanks for the overview guys, excellent as always.
I assume there is rear cover removed from the rear motor, but still that cable on the bottom of the motor is just looking to get crushed or gashed!
And the flat heat exchanger next to it. Those are very soft / fragile. If there's a rock underneath while the bed gets loaded w a pallet it'll squat and possibly hit the rock...
Hopefully there was a strong protection plate of some sort there that they removed prior to filming ?
24:43 There's no replacement for dis... capacity. Especially in the world of trucks. And there's no amount of aero work that can be done to replace the raw energy capacity needed for many truck functions. Yes, we understand that the Silverado EV is heavy, but delete the partially structural battery pack, and the result is a complete chassis and powertrain with a very similar weight to the curb weight of an ICE Silverado.
I get that some people are Tesla super fans, but we also need to acknowledge that up to this point, we could buy any format Tesla we wanted, so long as it's a sedan. But building trucks requires a different design philosophy and toolkit. The Cybertruck was Tesla's attempt to break away from their sedan/crossover mindset, but what they ended up building was a nice SUV. We could also compare Rivian's strategy, which was to just make a smaller truck with 10-15% less frontal area. In either case, though, open the Tonneau cover and/or hitch up a trailer, and you're now stuck with EV "trucks" that have 40% smaller batteries but 50% less towing range than the Silverado EV.
Any long-time truck owner already knows this, and they already understand that there are inherent tradeoffs required to build a truck with the required capabilities. Sure, it might be less efficient in base trim, but if you're buying a truck to drive it around in the base configuration, you didn't really need a truck in the first place. You just needed a commuter car.
The idea that long range towing = work truck is the telltale sign of someone who has no idea what he's talking about. Work trucks don't typically drive long distances, look no further than BEV commercial vans. Work trucks are all about cost and massive battery packs are antithetical to that. Now if you mean a truck to tow your toys then yes, that's where brute pack size becomes important.
@@boostav Nice cope. It depends on what the truck is used for and where. I totally agree that not all work trucks need more than 300 miles of range, and GM does offer trucks with smaller batteries for that. However, claiming that no work trucks need 400 to 600 miles of base range is just ignorant, and it tells me that you have very limited experience using trucks for work. Not that I care to make this a pissing contest, but I have been actively working on, in, and with trucks for over 30 years now.
That underbody looks EXTREMELY rust prone with all of those holes and gaps in the thin sheet metal.
2-3 years with michigan winters until that thing rust out
What I'm curious about is why the efficiency is so low, for all the GM vehicles.
I'm avg 2.5 mi/kw on my Silverado EV. EPA is 450. I'm getting close to 500 highway 70mph. Who cares if efficiency is a little higher in the cyber truck if it doesn't have the range to accomplish your use case. I'm loving it so far.
re: "for all the GM vehicles." well not the Bolt, their very first modern-day EV was (and still is) a RANGE KING.
@@phillyphil1513 Cars on fire don't have good range.
Not terrible for a vehicle that size. Same as my wife's I-pace, which is much smaller. Aero is the biggest contributor to aero efficiency. Weight causes friction but at highway speeds aerodynamics are far more of an issue.
Interesting video 👍
The more I see the more this truck turns me off. The fact that someone forgot to attach the brake hose on the assembly line doesn’t inspire confidence about the torque settings throughout the rest of the vehicle.
In the I could see the bottom of that truck and it’s thin protective sheet metal with random open threaded holes, for the battery rusting out pronto!
Right on the brake hose! Paper thin sheet metal. CV's already rusting to $hit. Typical GM cheap $hit.
Look under any new truck. Spot rust is very common.
@@bad50 I have no doubt of this. However I would expect anything this expensive to have proper corrosion resistance. Regardless of who manufacturers it. It's indicative of cost cutting. Understandable on a Kia or lesser vehicle, not on this. Not to me anyway.
@@johnnicol8598 re: "Understandable on a Kia or lesser vehicle, not on this." you will find this same rusting on the half shafts of the ROLLS ROYCE SPECTRE.
My theory on the weight is the rush to production. They wanted to get these out as fast as possible to join the EV market and made cost effective construction moves. The big Ultium packs in these weigh as much as a small car (3000lbs), their in house motors are very large and heavy. Its GM's "2nd" gen BEV but its a first gen product otherwise.
They actually chose the ambitious route. Anyone could stick a 120-140kWh battery in a truck and end up with crappy towing range and terrible charging. Innovation was pushing range and charging to the next level, which is what this does.
They should have taken the existing body on frame Silverado and done a battery version. Not this avalanche redux.
And where is the electric express van already!?
@@LakeLake123 And anyone can slap another 100KWh into their electric pickup and get a sad 100 miles more range. Physics is a bitch.
@@rtz549 Ford tried that.
Seperate lower front end parts for easy replacement when they get broken..? No need for whole complete part.
You didn't say how easily your BENDPAK lift raised it
The hummer lift was done with great concern, the lifts hold it but it sure was nerve wracking.
The Ford F-150 Lightning has a large aluminum alloy rear control arm because it is a very different suspension design: the Lightning has semi-trailing arms, but the Silverado EV has double A-arms.
Suggestion: y’all dive deeply into micro details too soon. Starting with general overview first would be helpful to those of us that are not automotive engineers
The true value of a vehicle review, is knowing if you are getting a good value vs other vehicles. So the technical info in these videos is great, but it needs to be put into context for the layman. I get you sell your more in depth reports, but for these videos, maybe you could "grade" different aspects of the reviewed vehicle. Like you give the suspension a B or a B+, give the materials used a C- , the assembly of all the part a A, the durability gets a C+, that kind of thing. Sandy's videos are great, but Munro has gone way to far into advertising for other companies and products, and if Sandy is not in a video saying what is crap, then people would get better value in understanding WHY they should get 1 vehicle over another, as THAT info is really helpful to the public.
GM loves their steel and MASSIVE bolts/fasteners, this thing is nearly 9000lbs, a full 2000 lbs heavier than cyberbeast. I know that 450mi range 200kwh battery pack is driving the oversized suspension and brake system. Curious to see how the GEN 2 modules look.
What wheel diameter does this truck have? There is a lot of clearance from the front brake calipers to the wheels, so it looks like these are brakes designed to fit in the 17" wheels of the WT trim, but in an RST truck, perhaps with optional wheels... which are up to 24". The sidewalls are so short that it does likely have the 275/50R24 tires (leaving 3.5" of spare room radially around the caliper).
I think those front brakes are more of a universal setup. Those 4 big bolts allow for mounting different size brackets to account for multiple different caliper sizes. This way they can adapt to whatever size wheel is needed, but still using the same control arms across everything.. This makes it very future proof across different platforms also.
Perhaps you have never worked on brakes... the caliper frame is typically bolted on, and only two bolts (one at each end) are normally used.
@@brianb-p6586 Yes.. that's why I gave my opinion on why I think they didn't do that in this case. They didn't suddenly change the design for no reason. Also, I've changed brakes on many different vehicles.. I've pulled engines and rebuilt them.. I've pulled apart manual transmissions and put in new synchronizer kits.. rebuilt differentials, etc. I have scan tools and oscilloscope and do diagnostics also. I'm not new here. ;)
15:17 GM outsourced the manufacturing of the battery enclosure to Magna, so it might be worth clarifying who is responsible for which aspects of the pack manufacturing.
Looks like the engineers worked backwards and designed a truck around a huge battery pack. Rather than to design the battery pack to fit the needs of the truck. The result is a heavy inefficient truck.
Tell that to the people that want to use something like this to haul a big trailer around and not have to find a charging station every hour and a half! The vehicle manufacturer can control the aerodynamics of the vehicle itself, but they can not control the aerodynamics of what someone wants to tow behind it, and that means, in order to have halfway decent range, it's gonna need a big battery like this in order to do it. If you don't need a vehicle this big to do whatever you are doing with your particular use case, then buy something smaller.
re: "The result is a heavy inefficient truck." not so much, the result is an ACTUAL TRUCK (ie, one with a 450 mile range that can tow).
Those layers of battery pack protection look like a corrosion sponge.
I wonder why the EV Silverado switched to cast aluminum UCA's from forged aluminum on Sierra and ICE Silverado? My guess is its supply chain related as forgings are in limited supply.
Obviously heavier than a half ton but performance is closer to a 3/4 so how does weight compare to a 3/4 ton ice.
About a ton heavier.
its heavy because its huge, and has a massive battery pack. Mystery solved.
12:08 So what I heard is GM is okay with increased costs that result in increased redundancy and improved safety, but some automakers are attempting to reduce costs in ways that could affect redundancy and safety.
re: "some automakers are attempting to reduce costs in ways that could affect redundancy and safety." bingo, because no OEM "willfully" wants to risk a
Class Action Suit or "willfully" wants to risk having to pay out a $ Billion (with a "B") in Warranty Claims on the back end. # WE'VE SEEN THIS MOVIE
Can you do a rough cost estimate video? Super curious to hear your thoughts on how much it costs GM to build these and how much would they cost if they ever reach volume (100k/year?)
Sorry but thats what our reports are for!
I expect gm go bankrupt 2026
@@markplott4820 GM " Too Big to fail" the US govt has unlimited money for bailouts.
Why did you guys withhold so much info on the Cybertruck?
Curious to know the tire life of a vehicle this heavy.
2 burnouts?
Depends on how YOU use it.
If rotated regularly, kept at the proper inflation psi, and the alignment is in spec. Baring heavy tow usage or aggressive acceleration?
It should do just fine like any other heavy powerful vehicle on the market. 👍🏻
With, or without brake line retention bolts?
Super Swampers are soft compound and no wear rating.
Put some 40" semi truck tires on it for some real miles.
Yes, we know that Munro's favourite design is for manufacturing... not for maintenance or repair.
Expensive repairs are good for OEMS.
GM having a good shot at it. But it ain't even close to a Cybertruck.
CT ain't a work truck. Not enough range. Im a Tesla fan boy. But when they failed to deliver a 500 mile truck I bought the Silverado wt4.
@@bad50 Yeah, even Ford had a good shot at it, got them power outlet for the tradies. But same range issue so redneck folks need something that can be repaired in the sticks. Ford is bleeding with lightnings converted for desperation sales in countries that are run by rednecks and drive on the left. GM would be bankrupt if not Joe got to like Mary.....
@@bad50 re: "But when they failed to deliver a 500 mile truck I bought the Silverado wt4." "GFY ELON...!!!"
@@bad50BS
Has anyone discussed the possibility of wiring major roads, red lights and highways with above mounted electric lines like on trains and then using a smaller battery for in between? Think of how much weight could be saved and this how much more efficient…. The cost would be huge yes, but…
And when they routinely fall down, still live, in bad weather they ebergize wet ground and water. The vehicle pantographs fail and tangle. They're fragile and subject to mobs pulling them down to disrupt traffic.
No, pantographs and catenary lines solve fewer problems than they can cause.
Gm batteries are like the big block v8 of the 80s
Chevy will be lucky to be in business in 10 years. They can't even copy the better designs from others
Are the four stands in place because you don’t trust your lift with the heavier electric truck?
No, it’s for safety. We use them all the time.
I'm sure it's for insurance purposes.
Skid plate looks like a rust problem
Cybertruck only has 3 mos ROI, let that sink in......😂
What is 3 mos ??
@@calholli 3 months
@@alanrivaldo-h How are you getting ROI in a depreciating asset? I don't get it. Fuel savings equivalent maybe?
@@calholliit wasn't my comment. I was just explaining what "mos" meant. With that said, you're right; a vehicle is a depreciating asset.
Tesl also hasn't broken even on its investment in the Cybertruck yet either; at best, it will do so by the end of this year, according to Elon Musk. He had initially stated that it would take 18 months of production to become profitable.
Does anyone happen to know if it has mag ride shocks. Specifically, how does it achieve different dampening modes, if it does not have mag ride?
Does GM powerboat frames yet ? They get rusty fast
Can I get a cybertruck with no stainless body at a reduced cost?
Q: Can I get a cybertruck with no stainless body at a reduced cost? A: no, you're just going to have to sever your whole hand clear to the bone AND LIKE IT. (as a fashion statement) legit Pirate Hooks are now making a come back. enjoy.
The battery cover is going to rust in a hurry in Michigan. That super thin sheet metal he pulled down with one finger is gonna rust thru as soon as the paint gets chipped. I don't know anyone who looks at the mpg and worries about range, unless you live in Montanna maybe.
you can get composite ones.
Exactly what I was thinking it seems so thin and the battery enclosure is probably made out of steel like all Tesla this no good in salty roads if you look at the VW iD4 it’s all made of aluminum and the bash plate too.
@@V10PDTDI At least with the 4680 Y, Tesla is moving to an aluminum lower panel. This has the side benefit of melting and dropping the batteries in the event of a fire.
Marry say I'm not ding no Giga cast I ain't got no time for that and I'm not doing that lead thing anymore!
It could get the same range with a smaller battery thus making it lighter but then it would suffer in towing Range I think
I guess they wanted to build a real heavy metal truck for lodging and hauling hundreds of tons. Just like Topsy from Edison Motors.
GM maybe late in the game for EV-TRUCK but they built a better Truck for long term.🤙🤙
I'm not a Chevy fan but my Silverado EV is a great work truck. No range anxiety
When talking about vehicle weight, please put it on an actual scale and show the actual value in kg and lbs.
First
🏆
Is that rust on the frame rail drain at 509?
I don’t understand the parking pawl/overloading while towing reference.
@@4rwayner7 - When parked on a steep hill with a maximum (or overloaded) towing load, the vehicle must be able to remain parked and not slide backwards!
What happens with an ev if you overload the towing capacity. Go slow like an ice or just quit?
smoke
@@websitemartianYes smoke, or smoke and steam as on an overloaded and overheated ICE or transmission, or brakes.
You can't tow with an EV.. just get it out of your head. It overheats and runs out of juice in 100 miles.. Just forget about towing, unless it's a short trip. It has the power-- it just doesn't have the battery.
@@calholliyou know nothing 😂😂. I tow my 16ft dump trailer and it weighs 6k empty and 10k loaded. Silverado can go 200-250 miles.
@@bad50 I'd like to see a video of you towing a 10k lb trailer for 200 miles. Let see it.
Where is Sandy
In his office…
Hope the back of his hand heals soon. Which EV was he in a fight with?
@@andrewradford3953 Probaly just gnawed his hand in frustration...
Thankfully silent
So I guess chevy frames are going to rust in two still. Looks like nothing has changed.
That underside sheetmetal mess looks like a flourishing rust bucket after a few winters and salted roads. Just an opinion.
Barra says it has to be $1000 per pound.....pretty simple
Given that both the Hummer and Silverado are high priced, low volume vehicles it is puzzling that not much shared between the platforms. A lot of parallel investment and development with neither vehicle likely to make any profit. Like the Ford F-150, GM is going to haemorrhage money building and selling these vehicles.
they are NOT selling, lack of DEMAND...😂
Not shared between the BT1XX platforms? Almost everything under the skin is shared. Sierra EV and Silverado EV are the same under the skin. Hummer is a widened version of the same platform - the control arms and steering tie-rods are longer to get the wheels out further. Battery module is the same. There's more coming on the same platform, too.
@@markplott4820lack of demand for GM to sell such a costly vehicle and less demand for customers to buy such an expensive vehicle. Shame
I learned it's a truck, trucks are heavy and GM cannot get the brake line right.
All wheel steering. Presumably electric & 12 volt system?
I guess next video.
It’s easy to build a prototype, ladder frame, no innovation.
Same old.
Please point out the compromises.
good question ... i wish they would read comments on other videos and find questions that matter and talk about those because they aren't saying anything that matters here
?? Not sure what you are asking. Yes, this has a 12 volt electrical system. And no, it is not at all easy to design and build a prototype. FYI this vehicle structure is unibody and has no major components shared with the combustion-engine T1XX vehicles. It has been in the works for years.
@@bikeaddictbp thanks for reply, AWS was biggest reason for Tesla to go to 48 volt, otherwise need HD jumper cable size wiring.
Tesla also gets on-board air compressor for adjustable suspension. I don’t know what else justifies move to 48v.
I am surprised it’s unibody, but then I’m surprised people,still buy the Hummer - which IS basically an unrefined prototype.
This video was very superficial - I’ll wait on a teardown.
@@websitemartian yes, quick look, but mostly to discuss aero, plastic parts.
It was like in-store product appraisal without opening the box. From the missus.
This wasn't a teardown...
Give me single motor mini truck not this overpriced rig
Your best bet is to drop a 4bt into an old toyota or ford chassis..
Sadly, Silverado & other gm vehicles are still using very crappy made POUCH lithium cells from LG....😂
Ultium-ately, they will all die with Mexican built Chinese EVs coming in about 5 years.
I hope they last 250-300k miles. I bought my wt4 for 66k
Thanks Jordan and Kevin gor pointing out how the GM twin trucks are made and its design cost fails and how inefficient it is, it is one BIG🐄 Pig🐷, IMHO, I'm sure there is no profit in those trucks.
sadly, Silverado is no longer the BENCHMARK, that goes to Cybertruck.
Silverado was never the benchmark. It has always been Ford.
Silverado EV dosent have Discreet cast front & rear axles, too many stamped parts & fastener, & brackets holding up more brackets.....😂
The Silverado EV WON the EV cannonball.
Get a grip.
Wow.this is amazing,the Silverado is the best!
it's NOT even the BEST selling EV truck in North America.....lol.
@@markplott4820 That is a production and profit issue and you know it.
@@davidbeppler3032 Exactly. If GM sold it for $10 they would have the worlds best selling truck, and lose less money per vehicle than Lucid.
@markplott4820 GM full size trucks combined, Chevy and GMC have outsold Ford for years. Get with it, potty mouth Mary
20:52 - because: TRUCK. despite any fancy add-ons over and above a WT (unlike the Cyber Camino) the Silverado RST must be able to go out and perform REAL WORK for at least 5 minutes without something breaking or having parts fall off the bloody thing, and is thus spec'd to carry 1400 lbs in the bed. this payload rating of course is in ADDITION to having to support the 2818 lbs of the 200 kWh battery pack already married to chassis (ie, a measurement btw that comes from your own scales there at Munro). okay this is the reason then for the use of steel over aluminum for the rear lower control arms, so see you don't have to your waste time disassembling anything at that wheel end because the answer's RIGHT THERE. 👀
Idea for next video. Is @WhistlinDiesel 's Cybertruck durability test with the rear end cast breaking a real concern?
Who?
@@MunroLive ruclips.net/video/PK_EJ3DyiiA/видео.htmlsi=iDxLe3E8bcZhYtG4
No manufacturer designs a trailer hitch and mounting location on the frame to take a vertical drop with the entire weight of the vehicle from several feet onto concrete.
@@dvader3263 You must not have seen his video today. lol... and you're just wrong. The fact that it broke that easily is a huge problem that Elon is going to be confronted with one way or another. I hope he gets ahead of it and makes them stronger immediately. If not, he's going to get another class action lawsuit. The clock is ticking now.. EVERYONE is now aware of the problem and if he just ignores it, a judge is going to throw the book at him in a few years.
@@dvader3263 WhistlinDiesel Made a follow up video to address this. I love the CT. I am order number ~187,000th and plan to get it after they fix the range, but this is a real concern that I am sure Tesla can fix. ruclips.net/video/_scBKKHi7WQ/видео.html
Munro - Silverado EV main problem is, its NOT very efficient.
its too HEAVY and has Large battery for really DUMB range.
not maxing out DU and themal system for efficiency.
Silverado EV in 2024 stil cant use NACS , has wrong location for charge port.
...bad engineering.
Munro is an EV fanboy
Tesla fanboys
PerspectivePerspectivePerspectivePerspectivePerspectivePerspectivePerspectivePerspective.
Omg lol
Shitty Silverado EV in one word = OUTDATED.
the Shitty Silverado EV is made just like a DUMB ICE truck and w/ outdated legacy parts bin....😂
MUNRO live - so in 2024 Chevy is making a Silverado EV that's built with outdated horse & buggy technology......lol.
it's too bad TESLA Cybertruck is outselling it and every other EV truck in the USA.
Cybertruck even outsells Rivian by 3:1.....lol.
The only way I’d own a cyber truck is parking it in a storage unit on the other side of town and taking an Uber home. There’s no way I’d want to be seen in that silly machine.
The tesla incelcamino has much to learn from GM
Production and profit. That is the Cybertruck game. What can Tesla learn from GM? How to fail?
This comment reveals you have much to learn yourself. GM is nowhere near scale, or profitability. Tesla is on the cusp of both.
Learn how to go BANKRUPT you mean🤔?...LOL😂
I am so glad the big 3 doesn't take advice from these guys.
Who said they don’t?
What advice did they give? lol
Watching now @ 7:54 and my question is, in what ways can you say that the anticipated “TRAIL BOSS” trim will be different from the meat and potatoes of this trim? Thanks.
Cybertruck is already outselling Silverado EV.....lol.
My non engineering background take: it’s dated with no innovation.