19:05 You would have to be insane to try and bake the air suspension receiver into the casting. The number one design rule for large castings is to minimize your scrap rate. To reject an entire giga casting because there's a problem with the air receiver is setting yourself up for failure. Not to mention that reservoir is a cookie cutter part to build coming pre-tested from a tier supplier.
Kevin is a top notch engineer , he knows his stuff , would be cool to see another engineer to fireside chat with Kevin to draw him out and highlight the extent of his knowledge and previous engineering wins.
The upper control arm does not just control camber. It locates the upper ball joint both laterally and longitudinally, so in combination with the lower arm it contributes to lateral location, longitudinal location, camber, and caster. The only things it doesn't do are support vertical load (because the spring acts on the lower arm in this case) and steer. Yes, loads are lower than those of the lower control arm, because it is acting at the end of a long lever - this and shorter upper arm length are why extended hub carriers are used.
20:28 same! this is the clearest video I've seen of this part of the CT and I can easily say I prefer without the air suspension and doing without the auto/collapsing tonneau cover. Consider all the space, cost, weight, complexity savings without those.
People just have to learn that it's ok to have silent moments. We develop these auto responses to fill in dead time and they are just bad habits. It's ok to have thought moments of silence
@@MunroLiveI will say air ride might not be on performance vehicles that are on road but military vehicles have suspension that is constantly variable and reading the terrain that it's driving on and adapting its suspension to match that Terrain... I feel a software update is going to allow this inside of the cybertruck
Dave Sparks got problems with the upper control arm when modding the truck. If you increase the wheel offset extensively, the upper control arm will probably give up, so the aftermarket parts builder has to take that in consideration.
Wonderful overview!! My reservation is still in the queue. However, I feel like I'm getting to know the vehicle beforehand with these videos.. Thank You!
Phenomenal video! From a geometry perspective, the long tesla knuckle wraping around the tire will change the camber significantly less at high steering angles compared to the Ford and Rivian. It would be interesting to test, but it could improve tire life.
Munro must consider what there is a demand for, so if you don't see ID4 then no Munro customer is interested in benchmarking VW. Munro sells a product from teardowns.
The front lower control arm is being shown upside-down, which only matters when it is (loosely) assembled with the hub carrier (knuckle) to illustrate the suspension configuration.
At 8:30 time stamp Kevin fails to explain how the cybertruck axle shaft interface works in that GKN style interface bearing assembly. Instead he goes into detail on the Ionic wheel bearing/axle interface assembly. I am very curious on how the "GKN styled" axle interface works.
Not a huge fan of those gooseneck steering knuckles but as long as you are ok with stock tires they keep the scrub radius down and make for good suspension geometry, but what’s with the polka dot styling /s.
Heavy D Sparks put very wide tracks on and crumpled the A arm. I think lower.. The tracks act like a pry bar, he gave a example crushing a can with no pry bar then, with a pry bar. Good Data
Damper: A damper is a mechanical or hydraulic device that absorbs and reduces shock impulses. Dampener: A dampener is something that makes something else damp, or moist
Again.. Making the air tank integrated with the main casting would be a bad idea IMO.. If it had a leak for any reason, you would need to replace the entire casting just to fix it; that's just a terrible idea. When you have something as fickle as an air system, everything about it needs to be easily replaced. It can still be integrated with things, other mounts, acting as a cross member, etc. etc.. Just as long as it's still easily replaceable. There is a very important line to draw between total integration and right to repair.
@@imconsequetau5275 Some systems are going to be more finicky by the way they work. An air suspension is always going to be less reliable than a traditional spring/shock system. For a start, the struts are way more complex, then you add a complete air control system with pump, reservoir, hoses, valves, sensors, electric harness, computer, etc...
@@ameunier41 I suspect that the reason these fail is not because of complexity, but because of bean counters that try to get the cheaper components installed. Engineers can design for endurance or for low cost.
@@imconsequetau5275 you can build a cheap spring/shock suspension and it will be reliable. I agree with you that with enough money it would be possible, but at some point the ROI isn't there anymore.
@@ameunier41 All Semi tractor trailers use air suspension and are truly reliable. Look at how reliable air brake systems are. It comes down to engineering expertise in selecting or designing reliable pneumatic components - and keeping bean counter mentality out of power.
It would be nice if Kevin (and other speakers) used a color pointer so the camera person knew what to shoot and the audience knew what part on the table to focus on.
The rear quarter panels bolt to the rear Giga casting. The rear quarter is made of a 1.4mm thick outer skin that is laser welded to a thinner SS inner skin that is stamped.
Why not incorporate the steel cradle into the casting. Is it because you want to isolate the motor and suspension points from the body for nvh? Makes sense but why not make it out of a big casting as well? Is steel better for a cradle somehow?
According to an earlier video from Munro, a steel cradle is strong, easy to make, and cost effective. A part that doesn't really need any insane engineering.
I bet the are cabin air vents. You need somewhere for air to exit the cabin when all the windows are up and you're bringing in fresh air from the front.
"Damper" is, indeed, the scientific and formally educated engineering term. But the NASCAR-type guys like to "dampen" an oscillating system, sometimes with a can of beer. 🙂
I would like to see the suspension of the Cybertruck in 2028 when i plan to buy. Bet there will be improvements...... But great great work Kevin and the entire Munro team.
It will be vastly superior and cheaper by then if the model 3 and y are anything to go by. I suspect they will design areas of the pack, suspension, and air ride system by then. There will likely be a plethora of aftermarket suspension options as well.
Air ride systems will usually go 23:45 80,000-100,000 miles before they go. They a couple grand to replace. Really the more concerning issues arise later which deal with leaks in the system around hose connections. Those can be difficult to find and there is more labor involved to fix them. Traditional shocks and struts have varying lifespans. Those that are more basic can easily last over 100,000 before being replaced while more high performance options such as those from fox need to be serviced about every 50,000 miles.
It would have helped (at least, for a non-car expert like myself) if you had started with a photo: Tire removed and all the parts under discussion with labels and arrows pointing to them. Maybe even tint each part in the photo a different color to tell them apart. Just holding a part up and saying it wraps around the wheel doesn't exactly mean much on its own. Thanks.
Sports cars with high end active suspensions have different requirements. A truck has a much wider possible payload range that the suspension must be able to compensate for, this is ideal for air suspension. Sports cars typically have very small payload ranges, they are designed for high-speed compliance because it's not a truck capable of towing and hauling. Always use the right tool for the job. I've driven the Dual Motor Cybertruck extensively off-road, from 350 lbs. payload, up to 2400 lbs. and am surprised how it adapts to different speeds and surfaces almost seamlessly, regardless of the load it's packing. So smooth, so quiet and responsive to every control input, steering or throttle. The brakes? I almost never use them, even loaded to the full GVWR and descending steep terrain. The regen steps up its game for controlling descents when heavily loaded and the air suspension keeps the load level so the suspension geometry doesn't change. It drives like a large but nimble sports touring sedan whether empty or loaded. The Cybertruck is just so composed when packing a heavy load, I've never seen anything like it in my 45 years of driving various trucks from light-duty pickups to heavy duty commercial trucks. Congrats to the Cybertruck Development Team, they had some real engineering leadership happening there. It's like Tesla keeps getting better and Elon knew to wait until his best engineers had cut their teeth on easier cars before putting them on the Cybertruck. I think Tesla has learned more in their 20 years than legacy auto learned in over 100 years!
It looks like the Cybertruck is a large unibody design with SS panels hanging from it. The only stressed “exoskeleton” piece may be the quarter panels.
YES , simply attach 5th wheel to HITCH Adapter , do NOT Exceed 11,000+ lb TOW rating. you CAN buy 12,000+ lb TOW bar w/ hitch from Unplugged Performance f/ Cybertruck.
@@markplott4820 bullshit!!! stop talking crap on internet! you dont even have the range to tow 11,000 let alone 12,000! there isnt any 5th wheel let alone a dually configuration possible.... nothing will ever beat body on frame trucks!
@@markplott4820 on body on frame truck you can very easily upgrade the towing capacity, refinforce the and extend the chassis, install a longer range fuel tank, even convert to 6x6...... tons of mods possible.
Hey Munrolive are you guys able to make a video / content with what you've seen regarding RHD markets and retooling costs. Lot of people wana know if it has been designed with that in mind.
Those upper control arms looks paper thin, and using stamp steel will be rusting quickly. Add to that, those casting spindles could become an issue off-roading, being prone to cracking.
@@mayflowerconsulting5540 Not with this extent. Look at the shape of that spindle. A stress fracture in the upper section will mean an extensive work to replace it. Plus replacing the wheel bearings.
@@RogerM88 F150, Silverado and Ram all have cast aluminum front knuckles with a goose neck, yet prly not as tall as the CT. And, they are about 1,000 LBS lower in curb weight.
Is there an upcoming video on the exoskeleton and if it increased or decreased overall costs? Videos like suspension analysis are interesting but feel mundane compared to some of the wackier new ideas in this vehicle.
Why doesn't Tesla use electric suspension? A bit like NIO ET9 does with its full active suspension? It would even allow energy recovery. Montréal, Québec
Definitely seemed nervous specifically talking about the upper control arm and claims that it's too weak and has bent in use. Like maybe he's worried about pissing off Tesla and getting in legal trouble.
Pneumatic suspension is _way_ better than hydraulic in the long run. Really not that hard to work on and despite the higher cost of struts (that's still cheaper than hydraulic or magnetic) it's easier to replace them than conventional shock and spring
Hydraulic has massive performance advantages. It's simply too expensive for most vehicles. If you have any experience with the Mercedes SLS or BMW rear hydraulic system, you'll realize that the parts are almost bulletproof.
Tesla should use dual-ball-joint system on the knuckle side for lower control arm, and upper control arm, straight knuckle, good geometry / scrub radius
@1903tx It doesn't need a lift kit. It already has more clear ground clearance than most lifted trucks. Remember, no differentials hanging down, no shock mounts hanging down.
"Dampeners"? Did I hear that right? Is this a new or secret feature on EV's? Lemmie guess... the "dampeners" spray a shower of water on the undercarriage when the battery spontaniously ignites. It's "dampers". NOT "dampeners".
I feel like Cybertruck won't be able to support large sidewall 33" or 35" mud tires like 305/70 R16 or 35x12.5 R18 without heavy mods because I the smallest rims it can take are 19 inch and there isn't space for a wider tire, either. I see a highly-rated mud tire for less than $200. It's a 32" on a 255/75 R16 Would fit great on CT were it not for the brakes. Even being able to do 17" wheels would be helpful for fuel economy with road tires while helping mudders & rock climbers.
The weight of the vehicle “hangs” from the ball joints rather than pushes into it. Terrible design. When that ball joint pulls in two you instinctively stab the brakes which steers the tire into the fender/door area.
Yeah , it's amazing to think the full weight of the vehicle is hanging from a small ball , which generally wear out quickly enough. If the rubber booth gets damaged grit gets in and wears away quickly. But it's a cheap and easy way to get the job done , so not too bad.
No, it does not load the ball joints in tension. The "loose" assembly illustration had the control arm upside down, placing the ball joint incorrectly. You can see the actual assembly in other videos, such as Munro's "Tesla Cybertruck Underbody".
Powershare. We have a Cybertruck. A Tesla-approved electrical contractor just installed a Powershare gateway so our Cybertruck, in the event of a power grid blackout, can quickly take over powering our home. The Cybertruck packs battery power equivalent to 8 Powerwalls. This Cybertruck backup power benefit provides big value to us. We were told only Cybertrucks in the Tesla family currently have this home powersharing capability. What unique components in the Cybertruck enable this function? How costly are these components? Is there anything preventing this capability from eventually appearing in other new Teslas models?
Great information, Kevin. For the love of all that is holy please please please find a different filler word than “Essentially”. I almost had stop watching after the 10th “Essentially”.
@@vipahman - Why not? Seems the alternative would require far more parts and labor that would either drive the cost higher or profits negative (or both). Might be why the Rivian is losing $40K/vehicle for the company.
@@tesla_tap what a joke! the alternative doesnt mean far more parts! a body on frame truck doesnt need far more parts its just two tubes the long of the vehicle with lateral tubes to carry and reinforce everything plus the chassis makes modifiyng a breeze!
I am surprise to still see pressed steel in there. Why not go all in castings at this point? Can't the increase of cost in metal be recovered in saving in batteries saved because of weight reduction?
Steel is just unbeatable! its not only amazing for towing ability but to very easily attach accessories to a truck or vehicle! thats why nothing beats body on frame vehicles for not just towing but also modifications.
Everyone has told you the same thing, but I have seen the actual OE parts costs A to B here. Stamped and welded steel is cheap cheap. There is a massive cost save. Plus by definition there is substantially more ductility in that upper control arm than if it were cast aluminum. Controlling the movement of that front corner assembly in a crash might be part of the decision process as well.
@@markplott4820 its utter garbage troll! take a chill pill! a 90hp toyota hilux made 30 years ago is tougher than than that crap and has been in use n very harsch environments around the world.
Welding DAMAGING PROPERTIES of the steel: It is better to say it changes properties of steel AT AND NEAR THE WELD POINT. This type of welding application is pretty much a proven process used for 50 years. Similar: it could be said, STAMPING a part changes the properties of steel not damages properties. I have spent decades looking at welds for failure points.
I find it interesting you don't really analyze the air bag system. Is there no definitive consensus? You said you know people that work them and they don't like them. I think you are saying they are good for height adjustment but not for quality of ride. I have eight bags on my motorhome, which are great for leveling, and my Town Car came with them but they were replaced with springs because of cost. But I have them and could put them back in. I suppose that is where you are at in the analysis of this suspension. More of a gimmick?
The bags themselves are not usually the problem. It's the pump and the control system that give problems down the road. Your RV is big enough to have space for a more heavy duty truck style air system. Ram was having trouble in Canada with condensation freezing in the lines or valve block for example. Automotive applications the parts are small, the whole setup is fiddly.
Is it just me or were they trying to carefully dance around calling the suspension inadequate? Like they're not doing much comparison with trucks.... mostly cars.
I have been out of the mechanic's industry for a few decades, but personally, I'm not sure what the are making that upper control are out of but with outer section as it spreads the y back, I am not comfortable with how flat that is. It seem to me one decent jolt and hopefully you just snap the ball joint off, but if you bend that upper control arm where it's at it's weakest and has no support, well it will be easier to get on a flatbed I guess, but a ball joint is cheaper than a cybertruck sourced upper control arm. And good luck getting that made aftermarket in the next 20 years. But then I offroaded with a banged up, ugly ass '75 GMC Jimmy with 3/4 ton GM rear Axle and a 1 ton GM front 4x4 axle, both off a big flat towbed. I ran 46" Swampers w/ fenders customed by Sawzall and double ducttaped edges to keep you from knicking your fingers on the edges! Didn't get the sidewalls high enough on the same rockface twice, causing me to get yanked of the rockshelf I had planted the tranny pan on by my friends 4x4 Toyota to the clapping amusement of everyone sitting atop both sides the narrow canyon, but it was all in good fun and I wasn't the only newbie then and in my defense, it was my first try at maneuver and it was before the big axles and I only had the 4" lift and 31" A/T's then. (I did make it my 3rd try a year later, but I had the 46'ers by then and didn't need to run up the rockface any, so it seemed anticlimactic) I Don't see the hard-core offroaders much anymore, is it sport that is more show than go now? I see lots of clean and waxed 4 x 4's with 20 different kinds of offroad and camping things you could ever think to mount on a vehicle,, but if you ever walk up and look at them,, it looks like there never used or dirt on the nuts or tiedowns! What's the deal? Well, the sippytrucks seem to be just for boys with little toys and big wallets and inflated egos.
So which part snaps when you drive through a dirt parking lot? As Dan Edmunds has objectively shown, it has suspension articulation of a 1985 Toyota Tercel.
@jamesengland7461 They're all hung up on "articulation" because that's how much it can flex without a wheel leaving the ground. And when you have to have all four on the ground to make traction, that's relevant. Cybertruck does not need to have all four wheels on the ground to make traction.
@@billstevens3796 CT currently has open diffs front and rear and since it’s not quad motor like Rivian, it’s relying on tire traction and brake-based traction control like some cute-ute Honda CRV to transfer power. Better hope you get the OTA unlock of the lockers before Elon goes all business genius and fires that team (the head of CT manufacturing is gone already).
So what's the need for a truck? They should get a car instead. Those upper control arms look too thin, as the large casting spindle is more prone to cracking. Towing heavy,even on the road could also stress those components.
@@DavidAMcC agreed. My point is that worrying about how it holds up off road is kinda stupid. I have a 2014 tundra crewmax and it wouldn’t hold up very well off road . Thats what i have my moto cross bikes for 👍😀
@RogerM88 Yes, exactly. Just like all the people who are driving one-ton duallies with their powerstrokes and Cummins who have never even had anything in the bed or ever towed anything. They should be driving cars too!
nope it wont! its not designed to be great suspension articulation or capabilities either! it also doesnt have a sway bar disconect..... ford has both front and rear on the bronco.
@@markplott4820 they havent fixed shit1 and wy does that upper control arm looks so flimsy? for a truck thats supposed to compete with ford raptor for fast offroad driving its utter garbage.
@@alanmay7929 - what do YOU expect , its a STOCK part. 90% Cybertruck will be DAILY DRIVER , DYI projects , Construction sites x5 week. off road will be MINOR like TOWING. thats why Unplugged offers TOTAL line to upgrade Cybertruck parts.
That is not a MacPherson strut😂! There is a clear upper control arm that acts as a pivot to steer the wheel you even talk about the upper control arm in Great lengths 🤔.
19:05 You would have to be insane to try and bake the air suspension receiver into the casting. The number one design rule for large castings is to minimize your scrap rate. To reject an entire giga casting because there's a problem with the air receiver is setting yourself up for failure. Not to mention that reservoir is a cookie cutter part to build coming pre-tested from a tier supplier.
@@otm646 It's actually hard to injection mold a hollow compartment, so no way.
Unless they really are more experienced and dont have so much scrap Z
Kevin is a top notch engineer , he knows his stuff , would be cool to see another engineer to fireside chat with Kevin to draw him out and highlight the extent of his knowledge and previous engineering wins.
The upper control arm does not just control camber. It locates the upper ball joint both laterally and longitudinally, so in combination with the lower arm it contributes to
lateral location,
longitudinal location,
camber, and
caster.
The only things it doesn't do are support vertical load (because the spring acts on the lower arm in this case) and steer. Yes, loads are lower than those of the lower control arm, because it is acting at the end of a long lever - this and shorter upper arm length are why extended hub carriers are used.
When he to get out of the manufacturing lane into the vehicle dynamics lane.. started getting a little squirrely
Thanks! It would be nice to have a video talking about exoskeleton vs traditional body structure
MUNRO already did AD Nauseum.
see - SANDY video @ SAE WCX 2024. and CT @ Texas factory tour.
There's no exoskeleton, this is unibody vehicle.
Thanks
@@simson4t - Hybrid Unibody - see Rivian.
20:28 same! this is the clearest video I've seen of this part of the CT and I can easily say I prefer without the air suspension and doing without the auto/collapsing tonneau cover. Consider all the space, cost, weight, complexity savings without those.
Aaaand lovin' Kevin "Himself" Harty in this one again!
Essentially correct
Kevin is one of our best!
@Munro Live you guys all are really the best, my top favorite channel 👍
People just have to learn that it's ok to have silent moments. We develop these auto responses to fill in dead time and they are just bad habits. It's ok to have thought moments of silence
@@calholli I think it's great fun listening to Kevin. And very informative.
Thanks - that was very informative. Good presentation.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very very informative presentation, thanks again Munro Live 👍
22:50 is the white line for emergency fill of the air ride system?
IDK, but there has to be a connection to pressurize the battery pack as well, somewhere...
Great preso with clear explanation. I'd love to see a simulation of the travel - very interesting.
Glad you liked it!
CT = 12 " Travel @ the Wheels.
That air pump and tank needs to inflate the tent accessory and they should include a compressed air outlet in the bed next to the electrical outlets.
Oh they'll move it don't worry. This is just version 1 of this truck it has a long way to go yet.
TANK, not enough Volume.
Cybertent has separate Portable AIR pump.
totally useless
@@markplott4820 are you kidding me
@@darylfortney8081 - NOT KIDDING, Facts.
🙋♂️🤗THANKS KEVIN AND THE MUNRO TEAM FOR SHARING THIS…AND WE HOPE YOU FEEL BETTER SOON 👍💚💚💚
Thanks
@@MunroLiveI will say air ride might not be on performance vehicles that are on road but military vehicles have suspension that is constantly variable and reading the terrain that it's driving on and adapting its suspension to match that Terrain... I feel a software update is going to allow this inside of the cybertruck
Dave Sparks got problems with the upper control arm when modding the truck. If you increase the wheel offset extensively, the upper control arm will probably give up, so the aftermarket parts builder has to take that in consideration.
Great video Kevin.
Thanks 👍
Great presentation! 👏👏👏
Thank you! 😃
Wonderful overview!! My reservation is still in the queue. However, I feel like I'm getting to know the vehicle beforehand with these videos.. Thank You!
That back area looks so clean in terms of design.
Phenomenal video!
From a geometry perspective, the long tesla knuckle wraping around the tire will change the camber significantly less at high steering angles compared to the Ford and Rivian. It would be interesting to test, but it could improve tire life.
Enjoyed the video! Also good source for a drinking game with the words "interesting" and "Rivian itself".
Glad you enjoyed it!
21:20 - How about the new Taycan with hydraulic suspension?
The hub bolt can back out, is it normal for no keeper to be there?
Great video ❤good job Tommy
when are we going to see an evaluation of the new VW ID4?
NOBODY wants to Teardown that GARBAGE.
meb Platform is CRAP.
Munro must consider what there is a demand for, so if you don't see ID4 then no Munro customer is interested in benchmarking VW. Munro sells a product from teardowns.
The front lower control arm is being shown upside-down, which only matters when it is (loosely) assembled with the hub carrier (knuckle) to illustrate the suspension configuration.
That front LCA is cast aluminum, right? I think he called it forged.
At 8:30 time stamp Kevin fails to explain how the cybertruck axle shaft interface works in that GKN style interface bearing assembly. Instead he goes into detail on the Ionic wheel bearing/axle interface assembly. I am very curious on how the "GKN styled" axle interface works.
RTFM.
Not a huge fan of those gooseneck steering knuckles but as long as you are ok with stock tires they keep the scrub radius down and make for good suspension geometry, but what’s with the polka dot styling /s.
Dots are for scanning components for Cad modeling.
@@user-roadwander LOL yes I was making a joke :)
@@user-roadwander It was a joke, hence the /s.
LASER scanning Dots.
Can a snow plow be used on Cybertruck?
It's the Itself man himself!
Kevin
Heavy D Sparks put very wide tracks on and crumpled the A arm.
I think lower..
The tracks act like a pry bar, he gave a example crushing a can with no pry bar then, with a pry bar.
Good Data
Is that front upper ball joint replaceable, or does a ball joint problem mean a whole new control arm? Munro likes it, so it must not be repairable.
My 2005 F150 gets a whole upper control arm if the ball joint fails. Its nothing new.
@@tabbott429 it's not new, it's just an example of Munro's philosophy of minimizing cost to the manufacturer at the expense of the customer.
Damper: A damper is a mechanical or hydraulic device that absorbs and reduces shock impulses.
Dampener: A dampener is something that makes something else damp, or moist
Thanks!
No problem!
Again.. Making the air tank integrated with the main casting would be a bad idea IMO.. If it had a leak for any reason, you would need to replace the entire casting just to fix it; that's just a terrible idea. When you have something as fickle as an air system, everything about it needs to be easily replaced. It can still be integrated with things, other mounts, acting as a cross member, etc. etc.. Just as long as it's still easily replaceable. There is a very important line to draw between total integration and right to repair.
Just my opinion, but if a system is "fickle", it was made too cheaply somewhere.
@@imconsequetau5275 Some systems are going to be more finicky by the way they work. An air suspension is always going to be less reliable than a traditional spring/shock system. For a start, the struts are way more complex, then you add a complete air control system with pump, reservoir, hoses, valves, sensors, electric harness, computer, etc...
@@ameunier41
I suspect that the reason these fail is not because of complexity, but because of bean counters that try to get the cheaper components installed. Engineers can design for endurance or for low cost.
@@imconsequetau5275 you can build a cheap spring/shock suspension and it will be reliable. I agree with you that with enough money it would be possible, but at some point the ROI isn't there anymore.
@@ameunier41
All Semi tractor trailers use air suspension and are truly reliable. Look at how reliable air brake systems are. It comes down to engineering expertise in selecting or designing reliable pneumatic components - and keeping bean counter mentality out of power.
I wonder if the bushings on the front lower control arms are replaceable.
see - Cybertruck REPAIR manual.
On most vehicles that I've seen, where you can replace the bushings.
It's not that much more to just replace the whole control arm at once.
It would be nice if Kevin (and other speakers) used a color pointer so the camera person knew what to shoot and the audience knew what part on the table to focus on.
Also very eager to see the body-in-white,
really curious about the details of how the exterior stainless steel panels are attached to the unibody
The rear quarter panels bolt to the rear Giga casting. The rear quarter is made of a 1.4mm thick outer skin that is laser welded to a thinner SS inner skin that is stamped.
we saw BIW in Last episode.
Why not incorporate the steel cradle into the casting. Is it because you want to isolate the motor and suspension points from the body for nvh? Makes sense but why not make it out of a big casting as well? Is steel better for a cradle somehow?
According to an earlier video from Munro, a steel cradle is strong, easy to make, and cost effective. A part that doesn't really need any insane engineering.
@@miscellaneousdanger Model 3 and Y use steel cradles too.
Nonsequitor: anyone know the purpose of the 2 louvered rectangular ports on the rear of the CT cab?
I bet the are cabin air vents. You need somewhere for air to exit the cabin when all the windows are up and you're bringing in fresh air from the front.
RTFM.
Maybe where the air displaced by the tonneau cover rolling in/out.
Wish they added grease fitting for the ball joints. They end up replacing the whole arm when it starts making noise.
4:40 Please don't call it "dampener". 😭
"Damper" is, indeed, the scientific and formally educated engineering term.
But the NASCAR-type guys like to "dampen" an oscillating system, sometimes with a can of beer. 🙂
Stop crying. In French, an adapter is called "Adaptater".
@@themonsterunderyourbed9408 That's French. This is English - where a dampener makes things wet.
@@BillMitchell-lm8dg the only acceptable way to dampen things in an automotive context. well, that and champagne on the podium :D
@@HannyDart Yes, champagne on the podium is best! 🙂
great video.
Thanks!
I would like to see the suspension of the Cybertruck in 2028 when i plan to buy. Bet there will be improvements...... But great great work Kevin and the entire Munro team.
My revivifier has a reservation ~1,300,000 hopes to get his October, 2026,
Wow, lol😂
It will be vastly superior and cheaper by then if the model 3 and y are anything to go by. I suspect they will design areas of the pack, suspension, and air ride system by then. There will likely be a plethora of aftermarket suspension options as well.
@@BrandonMeyer1641 nope thy wont and also the truck will not be as easy to modify as you are saying its just not even close.
AWESOME
What's the estimated lifespan of the air struts vs conventional ones using a shock and spring. Also, how much are those air struts?
Air ride systems will usually go 23:45 80,000-100,000 miles before they go. They a couple grand to replace. Really the more concerning issues arise later which deal with leaks in the system around hose connections. Those can be difficult to find and there is more labor involved to fix them.
Traditional shocks and struts have varying lifespans. Those that are more basic can easily last over 100,000 before being replaced while more high performance options such as those from fox need to be serviced about every 50,000 miles.
the BEST repair is, NO repair needed.
@@markplott4820 you are a troll!
@@alanmay7929 the fact that the two of you are arguing in the replies on several comments is just ridiculous
@@BrandonMeyer1641 even more ridiculous is you commenting too
Great!
What May 4 CT event?!?
We held a May 4th Cybertruck teardown event at our facility.
It would have helped (at least, for a non-car expert like myself) if you had started with a photo: Tire removed and all the parts under discussion with labels and arrows pointing to them. Maybe even tint each part in the photo a different color to tell them apart. Just holding a part up and saying it wraps around the wheel doesn't exactly mean much on its own. Thanks.
We inserted a clip showing it all together.
@@MunroLive Nice. Thank you very much.
There is an older video on this channel that explains suspension systems and the differences between them.
What's the labor rate for the control arms? I bet it's something like 0.2-0.6.🤦♂️
the BEST repair , is NO repair in the First place.
Sports cars with high end active suspensions have different requirements. A truck has a much wider possible payload range that the suspension must be able to compensate for, this is ideal for air suspension. Sports cars typically have very small payload ranges, they are designed for high-speed compliance because it's not a truck capable of towing and hauling. Always use the right tool for the job.
I've driven the Dual Motor Cybertruck extensively off-road, from 350 lbs. payload, up to 2400 lbs. and am surprised how it adapts to different speeds and surfaces almost seamlessly, regardless of the load it's packing. So smooth, so quiet and responsive to every control input, steering or throttle. The brakes? I almost never use them, even loaded to the full GVWR and descending steep terrain. The regen steps up its game for controlling descents when heavily loaded and the air suspension keeps the load level so the suspension geometry doesn't change. It drives like a large but nimble sports touring sedan whether empty or loaded. The Cybertruck is just so composed when packing a heavy load, I've never seen anything like it in my 45 years of driving various trucks from light-duty pickups to heavy duty commercial trucks. Congrats to the Cybertruck Development Team, they had some real engineering leadership happening there.
It's like Tesla keeps getting better and Elon knew to wait until his best engineers had cut their teeth on easier cars before putting them on the Cybertruck. I think Tesla has learned more in their 20 years than legacy auto learned in over 100 years!
It looks like the Cybertruck is a large unibody design with SS panels hanging from it. The only stressed “exoskeleton” piece may be the quarter panels.
NONE of HFS panels are Stressed , they ARE Martensite very TOUGH.
I'm curious, will the engineered design of the rear casting and suspension system allow for a 5th wheel hitch to be easily mounted to the truck?
@leowanner1228
Asking the *real* questions! I will probably have to cancel my order if it won't support a gooseneck hitch setup.
YES , simply attach 5th wheel to HITCH Adapter , do NOT Exceed 11,000+ lb TOW rating.
you CAN buy 12,000+ lb TOW bar w/ hitch from Unplugged Performance f/ Cybertruck.
@@markplott4820 bullshit!!! stop talking crap on internet! you dont even have the range to tow 11,000 let alone 12,000! there isnt any 5th wheel let alone a dually configuration possible.... nothing will ever beat body on frame trucks!
@@markplott4820 on body on frame truck you can very easily upgrade the towing capacity, refinforce the and extend the chassis, install a longer range fuel tank, even convert to 6x6...... tons of mods possible.
@@billstevens3796 youre too funny! a gooseneck really!
Hey Munrolive are you guys able to make a video / content with what you've seen regarding RHD markets and retooling costs. Lot of people wana know if it has been designed with that in mind.
READ the Tesla RHD repair manual.
Those upper control arms looks paper thin, and using stamp steel will be rusting quickly. Add to that, those casting spindles could become an issue off-roading, being prone to cracking.
@RogerM88
Yeah rust. Because *no-one* has *ever* used stamped steel for suspension components before. SMH.
@@billstevens3796 There's a reason why most OEM building trucks through decades, use double stamps welded together.
Cast aluminum spindles (knuckles) are common on pickup trucks, front and rear.
@@mayflowerconsulting5540 Not with this extent. Look at the shape of that spindle. A stress fracture in the upper section will mean an extensive work to replace it. Plus replacing the wheel bearings.
@@RogerM88 F150, Silverado and Ram all have cast aluminum front knuckles with a goose neck, yet prly not as tall as the CT. And, they are about 1,000 LBS lower in curb weight.
Is there an upcoming video on the exoskeleton and if it increased or decreased overall costs? Videos like suspension analysis are interesting but feel mundane compared to some of the wackier new ideas in this vehicle.
Yes
see - Sandy video - Cybertruck @ Texas Factory tour.
Why doesn't Tesla use electric suspension? A bit like NIO ET9 does with its full active suspension? It would even allow energy recovery.
Montréal, Québec
Thank you.
Content Grade A
Delivery Grade B - seemed a little nervous for no apparent reason and this affected smoothness of delivery.
@deanrhodenizer938
We apparently didn't watch the same video. I detected no nervousness whatsoever.
Definitely seemed nervous specifically talking about the upper control arm and claims that it's too weak and has bent in use. Like maybe he's worried about pissing off Tesla and getting in legal trouble.
nice
Pneumatic suspension is _way_ better than hydraulic in the long run. Really not that hard to work on and despite the higher cost of struts (that's still cheaper than hydraulic or magnetic) it's easier to replace them than conventional shock and spring
Hydraulic has massive performance advantages. It's simply too expensive for most vehicles. If you have any experience with the Mercedes SLS or BMW rear hydraulic system, you'll realize that the parts are almost bulletproof.
Jesus, that upper control arm is paper thin. If you hit the brakes hard that thing is going to turn into Origami.
As long as the upper control arms won't trap water and rust like they do on model 3 and Y then I will be happy.
@2:10 That sucks. That's gonna add a ton of cost to lift kits.
I honestly wonder if that was intentional to minimize poorly executed mods…
Tesla should use dual-ball-joint system on the knuckle side for lower control arm, and upper control arm, straight knuckle, good geometry / scrub radius
@1903tx
It doesn't need a lift kit. It already has more clear ground clearance than most lifted trucks. Remember, no differentials hanging down, no shock mounts hanging down.
NOPE - see Unplugged Performance.
@@markplott4820 Does that kit use spacers to push the unit bearings out? If so, that seems like a bad idea.
It really is just a big unibody car through and through... The style of suspension construction reinforces that fact.
I’m not sure if you’re trying to make a point, or if you’re just making a statement.
Hybrid UNIBODY w/ Massive FRONT & REAR Gigacastings & 4680 Structural battery pack , Structural ROOF.
@@markplott4820 its just lame unibody nothing structural lol!!! the honda ridgeline is just as "structural"
you sound offended :)
@@mphRagnarok thats what she said lol...
"Dampeners"? Did I hear that right? Is this a new or secret feature on EV's? Lemmie guess... the "dampeners" spray a shower of water on the undercarriage when the battery spontaniously ignites.
It's "dampers". NOT "dampeners".
No stabilizer bars ? if not why not?
CT has massive sway bars, that's why aftermarket made manual disconnects for off roading. Also why it handles so well on road
see Unplugged Performance , Cybertruck parts.
But the adaptive air suspension still needs the electromagnetic dampers to change the ride stiffness without changing ride height or am I wrong here?
WRONG - see CT manual.
@@markplott4820 troll!
Curious, what kind of pressure is used in the storage tank for normal operation?
RTFM.
who really cares?!
I feel like Cybertruck won't be able to support large sidewall 33" or 35" mud tires like 305/70 R16 or 35x12.5 R18 without heavy mods because I the smallest rims it can take are 19 inch and there isn't space for a wider tire, either. I see a highly-rated mud tire for less than $200. It's a 32" on a 255/75 R16 Would fit great on CT were it not for the brakes. Even being able to do 17" wheels would be helpful for fuel economy with road tires while helping mudders & rock climbers.
Is it mean if we did an "itself" or "in and of itself" counter? Just messing with you, Kevin, you're awesome!
We have one planned for his next video
👍👍
Itself itsself itself Itself itsself itself Itself itsself itself Itself itsself itself Itself itsself itself
The weight of the vehicle “hangs” from the ball joints rather than pushes into it. Terrible design.
When that ball joint pulls in two you instinctively stab the brakes which steers the tire into the fender/door area.
Yeah , it's amazing to think the full weight of the vehicle is hanging from a small ball , which generally wear out quickly enough. If the rubber booth gets damaged grit gets in and wears away quickly. But it's a cheap and easy way to get the job done , so not too bad.
No, it does not load the ball joints in tension. The "loose" assembly illustration had the control arm upside down, placing the ball joint incorrectly. You can see the actual assembly in other videos, such as Munro's "Tesla Cybertruck Underbody".
Say it with me: "DAMPER"
😉👍
"Dampener," seriously?
Take a shot of whiskey every time he says “essentially.” 😳
I dont drink whisky 😂
He’s an engineer, not a presenter. Cut him some slack.
Powershare. We have a Cybertruck. A Tesla-approved electrical contractor just installed a Powershare gateway so our Cybertruck, in the event of a power grid blackout, can quickly take over powering our home. The Cybertruck packs battery power equivalent to 8 Powerwalls. This Cybertruck backup power benefit provides big value to us.
We were told only Cybertrucks in the Tesla family currently have this home powersharing capability.
What unique components in the Cybertruck enable this function? How costly are these components? Is there anything preventing this capability from eventually appearing in other new Teslas models?
There is nothing unique about using an EV to power a home. Plenty of EVs do this.
Great information, Kevin. For the love of all that is holy please please please find a different filler word than “Essentially”. I almost had stop watching after the 10th “Essentially”.
Sweet mother of god....the size of that rear casting for the cybertruck....that is pure profit for tesla
Profit that does not translate to a vehicle cost reduction.
@@vipahman - Why not? Seems the alternative would require far more parts and labor that would either drive the cost higher or profits negative (or both). Might be why the Rivian is losing $40K/vehicle for the company.
@@vipahman - then YOU did not ANALIZE correctly.
its not a pure profit also its not a single cast its multiple pieces bolted together if you arent blind to see well.
@@tesla_tap what a joke! the alternative doesnt mean far more parts! a body on frame truck doesnt need far more parts its just two tubes the long of the vehicle with lateral tubes to carry and reinforce everything plus the chassis makes modifiyng a breeze!
I am surprise to still see pressed steel in there.
Why not go all in castings at this point? Can't the increase of cost in metal be recovered in saving in batteries saved because of weight reduction?
@alexforget
Cost benefit analyses are your friends in manufacturing.
COST of Forged Castings is prohibitive.
Steel is just unbeatable! its not only amazing for towing ability but to very easily attach accessories to a truck or vehicle! thats why nothing beats body on frame vehicles for not just towing but also modifications.
Everyone has told you the same thing, but I have seen the actual OE parts costs A to B here. Stamped and welded steel is cheap cheap. There is a massive cost save. Plus by definition there is substantially more ductility in that upper control arm than if it were cast aluminum. Controlling the movement of that front corner assembly in a crash might be part of the decision process as well.
@@otm646 - all within spec , for NON off road use.
CT is NOT under Warranty for off road use.
A comment meant for other video
Please RESPOND is English.
@@markplott4820 I was writing a comment on other video, the playlist kept going on and I kept writing and posted, so It posted on this video instead.
The engineering is sub par but it’s the “tooling” to cut cost and that’s a win? For who? The shareholders or the owners?
for those who would buy one at $120k but not at, say, $180k?
@cmnhl1329
Another armchair engineer...
CT Engineering it WORLD Class execution.
NO one else has a 48v Truck, that is Built REAL TOUGH, not fake tough , like EVERYONE else.
@@markplott4820 its utter garbage troll! take a chill pill! a 90hp toyota hilux made 30 years ago is tougher than than that crap and has been in use n very harsch environments around the world.
Welding DAMAGING PROPERTIES of the steel: It is better to say it changes properties of steel AT AND NEAR THE WELD POINT. This type of welding application is pretty much a proven process used for 50 years. Similar: it could be said, STAMPING a part changes the properties of steel not damages properties. I have spent decades looking at welds for failure points.
VERY WELCOME 🤗👍
Oh man good thing you'll never have to change a CV shaft on an Hyundai Ionic out on the trail. #nightmare
😮
I find it interesting you don't really analyze the air bag system. Is there no definitive consensus? You said you know people that work them and they don't like them. I think you are saying they are good for height adjustment but not for quality of ride. I have eight bags on my motorhome, which are great for leveling, and my Town Car came with them but they were replaced with springs because of cost. But I have them and could put them back in. I suppose that is where you are at in the analysis of this suspension. More of a gimmick?
The bags themselves are not usually the problem. It's the pump and the control system that give problems down the road. Your RV is big enough to have space for a more heavy duty truck style air system. Ram was having trouble in Canada with condensation freezing in the lines or valve block for example. Automotive applications the parts are small, the whole setup is fiddly.
Is it just me or were they trying to carefully dance around calling the suspension inadequate? Like they're not doing much comparison with trucks.... mostly cars.
I have been out of the mechanic's industry for a few decades, but personally, I'm not sure what the are making that upper control are out of but with outer section as it spreads the y back, I am not comfortable with how flat that is. It seem to me one decent jolt and hopefully you just snap the ball joint off, but if you bend that upper control arm where it's at it's weakest and has no support, well it will be easier to get on a flatbed I guess, but a ball joint is cheaper than a cybertruck sourced upper control arm. And good luck getting that made aftermarket in the next 20 years. But then I offroaded with a banged up, ugly ass '75 GMC Jimmy with 3/4 ton GM rear Axle and a 1 ton GM front 4x4 axle, both off a big flat towbed. I ran 46" Swampers w/ fenders customed by Sawzall and double ducttaped edges to keep you from knicking your fingers on the edges! Didn't get the sidewalls high enough on the same rockface twice, causing me to get yanked of the rockshelf I had planted the tranny pan on by my friends 4x4 Toyota to the clapping amusement of everyone sitting atop both sides the narrow canyon, but it was all in good fun and I wasn't the only newbie then and in my defense, it was my first try at maneuver and it was before the big axles and I only had the 4" lift and 31" A/T's then. (I did make it my 3rd try a year later, but I had the 46'ers by then and didn't need to run up the rockface any, so it seemed anticlimactic) I Don't see the hard-core offroaders much anymore, is it sport that is more show than go now? I see lots of clean and waxed 4 x 4's with 20 different kinds of offroad and camping things you could ever think to mount on a vehicle,, but if you ever walk up and look at them,, it looks like there never used or dirt on the nuts or tiedowns! What's the deal? Well, the sippytrucks seem to be just for boys with little toys and big wallets and inflated egos.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻✌🏻
So which part snaps when you drive through a dirt parking lot? As Dan Edmunds has objectively shown, it has suspension articulation of a 1985 Toyota Tercel.
Your mental will snap first,
maybe
😁
It has 11" of ride height adjustment, so whatever you're spewing is nonsense
@jamesengland7461
They're all hung up on "articulation" because that's how much it can flex without a wheel leaving the ground.
And when you have to have all four on the ground to make traction, that's relevant.
Cybertruck does not need to have all four wheels on the ground to make traction.
@@billstevens3796 CT currently has open diffs front and rear and since it’s not quad motor like Rivian, it’s relying on tire traction and brake-based traction control like some cute-ute Honda CRV to transfer power. Better hope you get the OTA unlock of the lockers before Elon goes all business genius and fires that team (the head of CT manufacturing is gone already).
very HARD to break a Cybertruck.
7:22 & 14:55 . . . WTF, all Alum castings - "Made in China" !
99% of owners will not take this vehicle off road. Not because it can’t but because most trucks are used for work on the ROAD.
So what's the need for a truck? They should get a car instead. Those upper control arms look too thin, as the large casting spindle is more prone to cracking. Towing heavy,even on the road could also stress those components.
There are,probably a percentage who drive one because it's the Cybertruck and not because they need a truck.
@@DavidAMcC agreed. My point is that worrying about how it holds up off road is kinda stupid. I have a 2014 tundra crewmax and it wouldn’t hold up very well off road . Thats what i have my moto cross bikes for 👍😀
@dadman9492
I'd be willing to bet a similar percentage of Raptors are never off-roaded.
@RogerM88
Yes, exactly. Just like all the people who are driving one-ton duallies with their powerstrokes and Cummins who have never even had anything in the bed or ever towed anything.
They should be driving cars too!
They could have cut more cost by making everything just a little bit smaller. Then they probably could have sold it world wide = more proffit.
I think the cyber truck will gain a great deal of support from the aftermarket in terms of suspension.
CT already has from Unplugged Performance , already has FIX for Front Upper control ARM.
has off road & PERFORMANCE parts.
nope it wont! its not designed to be great suspension articulation or capabilities either! it also doesnt have a sway bar disconect..... ford has both front and rear on the bronco.
@@markplott4820 they havent fixed shit1 and wy does that upper control arm looks so flimsy? for a truck thats supposed to compete with ford raptor for fast offroad driving its utter garbage.
@@alanmay7929 - what do YOU expect , its a STOCK part.
90% Cybertruck will be DAILY DRIVER , DYI projects , Construction sites x5 week.
off road will be MINOR like TOWING.
thats why Unplugged offers TOTAL line to upgrade Cybertruck parts.
@@alanmay7929 - I NEVER said Tesla fixed the Upper arm.
I did say Unplugged Performance & OTHERS already have a FIX.
That is not a MacPherson strut😂! There is a clear upper control arm that acts as a pivot to steer the wheel you even talk about the upper control arm in Great lengths 🤔.
True, it is not a MacPherson strut suspension at either end... and he never said it was. It does use spring and damper struts.
I finally saw one of these IRL the other day. Elon must really love Ketamine.
It's the "it's interesting" guy again
Kevin. His name is Kevin.
This is one slow tear down. I’ll probably have my cybertruck before you’re done.
NOPE , it would take YOU Months , 3 Quarters of YEAR.
and you would Probably BREAK something to Disassemble.
MUNRO does best NOT to break anything.
Lots of contradictions and rambeling, not one of the easiest uploads to follow due to these indications.
You should have been a school teacher
The price should evwntually come down with all these cheap parts