It's a £15.000 (copper wires or £18.000 for silver plated wires) switchbox with an attenuator. It has two transformers to galvanically separate the signals from the input to the left and right outputs and those transformers are the only ones that will colour the sound, as no transformer are totally transparent to the sound and usually affects the treble making it softer and not sharp enough. A transformer works by having one winding that are feed the audio signal and will then create a magnetic field and that field are picked up by a second winding and converted back to sound. It's not a lossless function and will also colour the sound as the inductance in the windings works as a low pass filter, and all transformers have less efficiency at higher levels as it will need to create a stronger magnetic field and could reduce the dynamic range, but that could be a good thing as it adds more presence to the sound as it gets more compressed and the low level details gets more pronounced when they are raised in level. As the box has no loudness function, to increase bass at lower listening levels, you will need to listen at an ear blistering reference level. I also prefer to adjust bass and treble depending of the music production and also to tailor the sound to the room, which will be different for each listener and in most cases will need correction. You usually have only one source that you use for really high end content so you can take that and connect to a box you build with a double rotary switch and solder resistors to it to make it a stepped attenuator and connect the output to one of the inputs of the amplifier, that usually have two selectable inputs. You can even have a toggle switch that short circuit most of the volume resistors to ground for a mute function. It would cost you £100 for gold plated switches and will have a more true audio as it doesn't have any transformers. But people doesn't do that as they would like to have more control over their audio, with loudness and bass and treble controls and room calibration functions to make your speakers more adapted to the room.
Bespoke? Might as well call it ultra boutique! A good review and very interesting but only hypothetical for most including me. I couldn't imagine what an entire system including that preamp would cost.
Wonderful review as usual Terry. As a TT2 owner myself, with no analogue sources, this did seem like an intriguing product. During the review I was guessing price would be around £5-6k and I was thinking “how about TT2+Pre amp vs TT2+Mscaler?” When you revealed the price (I’m guessing your review unit you with silver wiring and VAT would be around £18k) it suddenly became very much of academic interest only.
In my experience the tension you describe can be caused partly by a source component slightly overloading an input stage on an active preamp. A passive preamp can't be overloaded in the same way so the shouty tension doesn't exist. I've actually been able to solve the problem with active preamps by using attenuators on the inputs to reduce the signal enough to avoid the problem. Everything sounds more relaxed. The other advantage of a passive preamp though, is that there shouldn't be any distortion at all, at any level.
This is very true. Blame THX, line levels standards doubled in output levels after it came out. Poweramps with attenuators on the input also reduce the 'tension'. There are sound technical reasons for it. I made a balanced receiver in my preamp that converts to unbalanced and attenuates signal before going on to the unity gain buffer > alps pot > unity gain output buffer.
Terry, very good description of the “sound” of how passive preamps sound. I had a Sonic Euphoria preamp many moons ago and used it mainly with digital playback. I eventually stopped using it because I missed having tone controls. But if someone is listening to a system without any additional equalization or adjustments, it is definitely worth spending time for an audition. The Sonic Euphoria was using RCA connectors with unbalanced inputs and outputs and was one of the few components where I could hear a difference between different interconnect cables. I eventually settled with Cardas Clear 1 meter cables.
I've never heard an active preamp as good as a passive. When you analyze the sound you soon realise that anything which sounds better with a passive, remains better, and it doesn't matter what sort of music you're listenng to. On the other hand, active pre amps where there is an aspect which you think might be an improvement, quickly reveals itself to be an exaggeration or a distortion (in the truest sense of the word) of the sound.
This review is spot on. It's so true that using digital volume has it's merits, but digital highs punish and the stage flattens as depth collapses [compared to the Bespoke]. But also, digital attenuation is actually lossy, and that only gets worse at lower volumes. While the beeswax encased transformers were mentioned, the TVC/autoformer design was not (which is where all the money is going). Where most passive and active preamps attenuate signal via a POT or multiple resisters (both of which convert signal to heat), this unit uses the 46 taps on those transformers.
This is a super deluxe product but much cheaper options are available. The Tisbury Audio passive pre is quite nice. I have one of these and also Goldpoint balanced passive pre. These are both stepped attenuator designs. Passives are also available with transformers for attenuators instead of resistors for attenuation. I think Townsend Audio used to make one at a much lower price. I have never liked the volume controls in Dacs and like to run Dacs at maximum output. Some power amps don't like passives and some run better with active pre's . I have several power amps and some are better with passives and some are better with actives.
Great review Terry. I've been using passive preamps for years. It's all about controlling the potentiometer with line level devices. There's some amazing solutions out there.
I've been using passive pre-amps for years. When the system suits them - ie no significant loss in dynamics due to the source being able to drive the signal through the pre-amp OK - they work very well. As Richard Dunn used to say: the only thing better sounding than the finest component is no component at all. Less is more. If you ever get the chance, try an NVA P90SA or P50SA.
Richard was a genius . I initially thought his ideas a bit far fetched until I got hold of some NVA power amps . I was shocked. Such a natural refined musical experience..
You can pick up a passive pre amp for £100 . Townshend Allegri and Allegri Reference are worth a punt albeit they cost £2k,£8k respectively. With a decent digital volume control one could argue you don’t need any kind of pre amp but they can make a huge difference . I had a preamp which does an ADC of analogue sources and upsamples and I found this sound to be better than compared to a reference tube pre amp . As always this is a fun Hobby ( and can get very expensive!)
Great review, way above my budget. Compared to the pre of my integrated amp, I prefer the Schiit Pre. The comments suggest I should try different output levels of the DAC, interesting!
The preamp is the most important piece in the system to get right. But its not something anyone can tell you. You have to hear it for yourself. Now that you've heard it, I may be able to give you some insight as to what you are hearing. I noticed the first thing you said was how much better digital music sounded. I can only speculate, because I haven't heard your system, but I would say that's partially right, at best. What you're really hearing is how much damage a lesser preamp is doing to the sound. And that's why I say the preamp is the most important piece to get right. Its usually overlooked. Ask any good high end audio designer and they will all tell you the same thing. Its much harder to build a good preamp, than a power amp. The weaker the signal, the bigger effect that changes have on the sound. For example, to design a preamp to equally match a power amp in sound quality, the preamp has to be built to a higher standard than the power amp. A line level signal is much more susceptible to damage than what goes to your speakers. The same applies to a MM phono stage. Its much weaker than a line level signal. And for an MC cart, its even more important. That's why some of these pieces cost so much. The application demands better quality. I'm willing to bet that you've heard many passive preamps over the years, and just didn't realize it. Creek, Naim, Ayre, McCormack, Pass and many others have all used passive preamps in their designs. Moving forward, you don't have to spend a huge amount of money on a passive like this to get good sound. You just need to be aware of how important the preamp is in the context of your system. I know the one you reviewed is expensive, but most of the time, passive preamps are a low cost way to get better sound. A good active preamp is expensive, and not everyone has the money to get one. However, if cost was not a object, most of us that support the use of passive preamps would buy an active preamp. Its just now that you are hearing how important the preamp is, its throwing you off balance. Your definition of what an audio system is, has been redefined. Knowing what you know now, you can spend half the money on a new preamp (active or passive), and get a massive improvement in sound quality. You may even find something you like better. You'll see this as you listen to more equipment. But you can't tell someone this. You have to experience the difference for yourself like you did in this review.
I defo agree with some of this but please don’t think this is my first rodeo with very high end gear. I have listened to many big value systems half million and so on. I can only think of a handful where digital sounded smooth like this but when it’s a whole system you don’t know what is the cause. This has not been an overall discovery for me as much as this is just an excellent pre amp that sounds superb
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I wasn't suggesting that you don't know what good equipment is, or have no experience with it. Its just very common that audiophiles at all levels don't always realize how important the preamp is, and how it effects the sound. It shouldn't be overlooked is all I'm saying. Watching your video, it looks like you are just finding this out.
There is a little bit of theatre in that for getting the point across , but also I have spent a lot of time with integrated's so you dont get to choose or think about it so its also true
With a digital source, I've found the speakers to be the most important part of the system. With vinyl it's a tie between the speakers and the analogue source being the most important. But then I've always used either integrated amps or affordable passive pre-amps.
'Passive Preamplifier' is not a very helpful category. This is a Transformer Volume Control (TVC) preamplifier, it is very different in both sound and impedance characteristics to the potentiometer/resistor passive preamplifiers some people are writing about in these comments
Interesting- as an EE and an audio fanatic I am intrigued by what they are after here. It appears to be a coupled transformer system that is literally stepping up the line analog signal via two transformers? I would suspect those windings are extremely tight, and hearing/seeing 1.6KM of copper wire into those units gives you a sense of just how tightly wound they are. Tugs on the interesting 'end goal' as we say in the audio community: "the best (amps/preamps) would be a straight wire with gain." Have they achieved that here??? Pioneering product perhaps!? Great review, cheers.
Anyone considering passive volume attenuation NEEDS to read up on impedance matching between source, pre and amplifier. Check your system spec and do the homework before buying!
Wow! Very nice Terry it looks the goods. I have an original Rotel Michi RHC10 passive preamp that goes along with the RHB10 power amp. I agree with your description the RHC10 also sounds very organic 3-dimensional enveloping when you are listening to it. The only thing is you just have to push things a little further around on the volume control because there is no active signal amplification from the preamp. Great video I really enjoyed this review.
WOW! Beautiful piece…but out of the price capabilities of this audiophile….I guess that I will just have to keep slumming it here in The States with my Schiit Freya+, which has a 1. Passive, 2. Differential Buffer and 3. Differential Tube Mode (that I just upgraded the capacitors & resistors in the tube stage's circuit and I also vented the top plate on it for better heat dissipation). I am sure that the passive mode on my Freya+ is NOTHING like the Bespoke…but it would be fun to compare them!!! Very interesting video, Terry. 👍🏼😀
I think these are becoming more popular because of digital audio; DAC output signal strong & lends itself to passive preamp (which is just a volume control, with no gain). All volume controls are attenuators - they don’t turn the volume up - they actually just reduce the volume from “unity gain” - can be done at widely varying levels of quality and this piece is an example of exactly the right way to make one
This looks amazing. A few thoughts of mine. I use passive preamps to test facts as it tells you how the dac sounds and not how the preamp sounds. Normally I use a class d amp because they normally don’t color. As for the transformers that’s really interesting. I’m building a streamer dac with transformer outputs as it gives you that amazing soundstage you describe but with limitations as you also describe. Mine can swap also to op amp output for leading edge sounds. The preamp you have is very impressive but did they mention anything about impedance? Transformers normally change impedance and this can be a drawback for some systems. Thanks for the amazing review
Transformers always act as somewhat of a filter. That is why they are so important to the sound of tube amps, and why companies like McIntosh wind their own transformers.
Thanks Terry. Given the materials used, theres no justification for those prices, but once you are at these prices I guess people are not looking for value. My previous experiences with passive pre amps suggests they work only in very specific circumstances, though im pleased you managed to tune your output so you felt you had achieved these. Your comments on digital 'tension' were interesting, as im completely unaware of it and have never heard anyone else suggest its exsistance either. I like a smooth laid back delivery and have not had difficulty in achieving this with digital sources, ive never felt like im battling an inherent tension with the format, but im operating at lower levels (Auralic altair g1. 1 feeding Naim NAP 250DR), and simply dont have the breadth of experience you will have. Not something I would consider even if I had that type of cash to squander , but its an interesting unit and Im grateful for your piece on it, thanks!
To be fair it worked fine with in my setup, including my phono stage which is good but not super high end or super esoteric etc, all with no issues at all so I think if your system is not super wacky then this preamp will be totally fine. Maybe that is why its costs more as its solving issues other designs have. I dont know enough to look at that any deeper
Great video! I'm quite familiar with passive-pre's and their schematics, never really cared for them to be honest, but this one with all the balanced options looks nice! Way off my budget though... I am actually putting the funds together for an all-balanced pre-power set with lot's on in/out options on both units to combine with my home theater system. Plus things like tape-loops that I've recently started using again a lot!
Thanks for a very good review. It would be interesting to hear if the same effect is present when paired with the Chord Dave. Thanks for your usual honest and carefully considered work. Greetings
H Terry, I found this to be a particularly interesting review as I have a very similar passive preamp from Music First Audio in line with Chord TT2/M-Scaler. I use the the TT2 in DAC mode and never considered the possibility of using the MFA into the preamp of the TT2. These types of preamps are also know as Transformer Volume Control devices (TVC) as essentially they are just performing as a volume control (with input selection). I much prefer the overall sound quality resulting from using the TT2 as a DAC with the MFA; however, I am intrigued by your experimentation in using a TVC as an attenuator into the Chord TT2 and will try it myself. It will be interesting to try the different gain adjustments through the TT2 settings.
Lovely review. What a fantastic product. I would love to hear what one would do to compliment my system. Unfortunately I shall never know because of the cost. ...and that's a sad thing.
A passive pre-amp, should not add anything to the sound, it's just an attenuator & it just let the power amp do it's thing, so what your hearing is just the sound from the power amp on it's own, the power amp has had the shackles removed, ie a pre-amp can change the sound of the power-amp, it's just my experience, great video Terry 👍
Beeswax is used to seal the transformers. Technically passive is not a preamplifier. They are a sound attenuator/impedance matching device. All the "wire" specified is because the device is primaily matching transfers and reostats/potentiometers. There is no amplification, so of course it would be less volume level. The "volume" on a passive, is actually an attenuation of the audio signal. As there is no amplification, no active components, it doesn't add any artifacting to the sound and there is a lot less chance of a source "overloading" an input stage, as it takes a lot more signal than to saturate a transformer.
You do have to accommodate the fact that it's a passive pre. I have found after trying a high quality UK made one and making my own version they can be problematic and fussy of the rest of the system.
Impedance matching of source, pre and amp, along with length, capacitance and inductance of the interconnects affect the performance of the passive preamps.
This is the main consideration with passives and no one else has really pointed it out. Impedance matching of each stage will vary widely with different sources and amps. And it is absolutely necessary to investigate this beforehand... Find out source output impedance, amp input impedance, pre in and ou impedance... Do homework and maths to confirm it is technically within correct parameters at different volume levels.
I didnt have any impedance matching issues, using the gear shown in the video, maybe if you have esoteric gear there could be issues but this pre seemed totally fine even with my phono stage which is very normal
Great review Terry. Kiss (keep it simple, stupid) is what came to my mind. I like the concept very much. But, considering the price, I will mind more complicated issues like DIRAC options my NAD M33 and C658. I’m told Terry can help with those too.
Anything in the path will leave a signature. When we review ANY item, it will always be OUR INDIVIDUAL preferences that will intrude and guide our choices.
it's a very interesting product, it reminds me of the Ypsilon Eelctronics, which is muck more expensive but rated as one of the best preampli with the DartZeel and CH Precision.
The thing is piano sound in person can be "sharp" if it is FF and smooth when p or pp. Violin can be pretty powerful and "sharp" in person. If piano or a violin or a trombone for that matter always sounds smooth in my system, I kown it is not reproducing the sound faithfully or the recording did not capture the true sound.
Thanks for this review. Was very intrigued by the slightly hyperbolic title! But you completely lost me when price was revealed! Love niche brands and hand-made gear but resale value is usually poor and chances to deliver on expectations at such price point is rather low IMHO. Still, interesting to look at the beauty of this piece of gear.
Interesting. I wonder what it's doing and if it can be easily replicated. I have some big old transformers I can feed my input signal through. Input resistance is very high anyway so maybe it has something to do with inductance? Also it could be the left/right windings are on the same coil so there is some cross talk/phase attenuation going on that gives the perception of a wider soundstage? Thanks for the inspiring reviews as always Terry
Beautiful piece but $12-18K in British pounds so $25K for me in Canada makes it unobtainium for me. I would be curious to demo it at my hifi dealer against similarly priced preamps from other high end manufacturers, though maybe the bespoke aspect of this piece makes pride of ownership a thing that outweighs its relative performance 🤔?
wax for potting the transformers? can't help wonder the 'trade off' (factoring cost) of using a stepped attenuator rather than a quality pot - baring in mind the signal is possibly running through 12 metres of thin hook up wire(balanced 2 channel) plus the transformer wire. I suspect where your power amp is a nice high impedance to start with the advantages of the transformers give a diminishing return? For £15k I would certainly be comparing it to other options!
I’ve tried a few passive preamps in my system. Unfortunately none of them were a good fit in my system. They all sounded flat . Just no drive and lacked dynamics. I’ve been told that my components need to be closer together with much shorter interconnects between them in order to get the benefits of a passive pre. Maybe I will revisit a passive someday but for now I’m perfectly happy with my active tube pre/ss amp combo
There is a question about that on the website and they say that is not an issue with this preamp so I think it shows not all gear is the same and created equal. Maybe partly why this pre amp is so expensive is because it’s over coming those issues. I played records just fine with nothing fancy just my usual TT setup and the volume and dynamics were all great as good as any other time if not better in some ways
@@PursuitPerfectSystem interesting. Yes , maybe that’s why it’s more costly than other units. I definitely like the concept of a passive pre and not having to move components and purchase new ic’s definitely sounds appealing
Because the amplifier would likely only receive “maximum” volume from a source like a DAC. It could blow the speakers, and/or not allow one to listen at a reasonable level to evaluate.
Welcome to the world of transformer audio... A transformer have one big advantage compared to all active parts and that is lower distortion with raising signal. All active stages have higher distortion with raisning signal. So with a transformer, low and high level signal CAN have very similar distortion level and that is the key to the good sound of a transformer. With active parts high level signal have more distortion and that is changing the reproduction of the recorded signal. Ultimately a active tube preamp with a transformer output is the way to go if you want some gain, better input and output impedances and still keep the super musical fluant sound.
I have used a passive pre since the early days of CD - the output is more than enough to drive a power amplifier. For those with relatively deep pockets, the transformer driven passive pres are the best but even a properly designed passive with a quality pot is far better than putting an active pre amp in the signal chain. Most passive pres connected to just about any half decent power amp are going to lay the source bare - as you have discovered with your TT. In this digital age, the DAC is king (and queen). Everything goes through it. CD transport, streamer, tv etc. Get that right and you are in hi-fi heaven (as long as you are happy with your speakers!). And there are a lot of DACS out there which aren't great. Before you send that lovely Bespoke back see if you can borrow a PrimaLuna tube DAC. They are not expensive in hi-fi terms (£3,000) and you will probably keep it...
Great looking product. I don't think any passive pre-amp is worth that much money + you can buy them for a hell of a lot cheaper to do the same job, maybe not as well but as you know it's all diminishing as you go up. Better off spending that sort of money somewhere else in your system. Unless of course money is no object!
Seems like it's doing the impossible, converting the puny signal from vynle to power amp compatibility. Certainly a power amp can't amplify the direct signal from a magnetic cartridge and you can't get more energy to boost the signal without an external power supply. Perplexed!
You would still need a phono stage to boost the level the same as normal but with a phono stage this preamp works fine. I tested it with my turntable setup and Avid Pellar phono stage
So it's not just crackheads in Hastings? 😆 It looks fantastic, it's the Ferrari or passive preamps. I got a Khozmo, their prices are more online with my salary 😄
It would be helpful if you would measure the ideal input voltage coming from your Chord TT2 and tell us that, along with the volume level range you are using on the passive pre for best results. Also, I am guessing that given the nature of potentiometers, you probably will get best results near the top end of the range, since the signal is passing thru much lower value resistors...
This preamplifier has a transformer volume control, there are no resistors or pot. It's output impedance decreases as you turn down the volume, so it should actually perform better at low levels.
12:50 You'd think that setting the dac output to max volume and then connecting the passive preamplifier would be the right way to connect the two but maybe the signal off the dac is too hot for the passive pre (e.g. causing some distortion due to the core saturation or other magnetic effects) or it could be that there is some synergy between the distortions of the two devices' distortion profiles. I would doubt it is the former as the pre ought to include the max input voltage etc in its specs so it would be easy to find out if the dac output would be too hot.
I sold my US $4,000 Balanced Audio Technology tube preamp after listening to my system with a passive preamplifier. Of course you don't need to spend an arm an a leg in a preamp like this one to enjoy a very transparent musical event in your own system.
A passive preamp only attenuates the volume of a power amp. It's the make or type of resistors in chain on the volume potentiometer that give it it's sound. I've never like intergrated amps, they just have a tense sound. By choosing a nice preamp (Audio research) in a system the pre amp becomes the voice of a system. I use an Audio research LS17 and a Mcinttosh MC302, it's a match made in heaven.
pre-amps have an un needed gain stage which degrades the sound - all you need is impedance matching from digital source to amp with a way to control volume
Um, no, don't believe so. Listened to this video 3x now n nothing mentioned on macro or micro dynamics, impact or slam, weight or dynamic realism, and so forth. Thank you for correcting me or pointing me to the time frame point otherwise
I didnt say the word micro dynamics or macro, but I mentioned no obvious trade offs so that means good for both, however in the comparison between the TT2 I noticed the macro dynamics were better from the TT2, so I went about solving that and did. Then how can you get weight and slam from a pre that has no intended sound character - thats not really something to talk about here. Realism is bullshit, no hifi sounds real its impossible for it to, but i used the words pleasing, and organic (even that is total interpretation) which is about the best a hifi can do really.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Mr. Pursuit Perfect, I thank you for your best reply, kind sir! I've personally worked in 4 ultra high end audio salons, 1 big box AV chain store, and 1 custom installation company over the decades , before branching out on my own to do custom and acoustical engineering on my own. Besides all of that, been an audiophile (at least a strong enthusiast during the nearly 3 decades I've been in and around hifi, so I've seen/heard LOTS of products come and go over the years, to be straight. So when I mention dynamics, impact, slam and what not, I'm comparing what I've heard from different preamps, active, passive, digital volume controls and dacs, direct from source, and so on..(case in point, I used to sell Pass Labs many years back, and owned the Aleph L passive from that company - which was dynamically weaker sounding - which was much more expensive Aleph P preamp, which had good slam and dynamic transparency, if I remember correctly) I've found that the active line stage preamps have been , by far, the more weighty and impactful sounding of the lot from experience. Opinions on what's real/accurate/most lifelike, whatever, is, of course, up to impression and opinion. Although I'm pretty sure one can surmise that what's actually recorded probably has more dynamics, realistically, than what a hifi system can reproduce - piano key attack, drum whacks and "umfff" ,for instance. That nonsense all said now, NO, I still have absolutely no idea (other than my own guess/ theory) what those described aspect of that preamp is offered from this unit , based on your review! Thank you for the response again, however. I did try ...I think
Sorry to disappoint but I can only say the same thing again, this pre is designed to have no sound of its own, so to talk about certain sonic aspects of the its sounds is hard because its designed to no have any. I explained that straight away because its critical to the whole review. The only way to create a greater context for that would be a direct comparison to another unit, but its hard to do that because what do you choose another passive or another active preamp both create their own situations that are different and wouldnt allow me to solve your dilemma because what are talking about here one pre giving you the truth and the other adding. Or one pre giving you the truth and the other taking away. How does anyone know the answer to that. I have done a lot of audio recording and you will be surprised by the limitation of it so it's not clear really how dynamic something should sound. Here is the take away, this I did explain, I feel with this type of pre, if you like what it does, it would sit at the centre of your system and you would build your system around it, therefore if you want more slam you choose the right amplifiers and speakers / subwoofers to give you that and so on.
A passive preamp can be nice in a system and this one looks awesome - but I think that there is too much emphasis on the exterior here - while the interior is mostly forgotten. Performance of a passive preamp is determined by the synergy in a system, important is which resistors are used in what configuration, and what the output impedance of the unit is set at. Try a Khozmo Acoustic preamp for example, and you will be able to tailor the components and get similar, or perhaps even better results and you save enough money to buy a new car.
To be honest I dont see how you can say it will be the same or better results when the designs are so different, totally different. I think thats a huge assumption and best not to make then with no direct experience when you think about it,
@@PursuitPerfectSystem you could be right yes, and I most likely never will have such an expensive preamp in my system, and so I will never know. But I do know that the job of a passive is to stand as little in the way of the signal as possible - and that alone can easily be achieved with a lot less money. When I was looking for a good active preamp an expert suggested me to try a passive - and that was an eye opener for me. I guess that you as a reviewer could try out a Khozmo, compare it to the Bespoke, and give us your opinion. To be clear, I do respect you as a solid reviewer, and quite a few times your reviews helped me a lot. Only I think that interior customization of a product is a lot more important than the outside - and I don't like silver :o)
Strictly speaking, this is not a preamplifier as it provides no gain. These types of devices are normally referred too as a Transformer Volume Control (TVC). Also, it is massively important to understand how this device works as it relies on the output impedance of the source device it is connected too, as well as the input impedance of the power amplifier to work correctly. Depending on these two parameters will effect how the TVC will work. Get it right and it will work OK. Get it wrong and it will perform badly. A trait of any TVC like this, as well as any other passive volume control type device, is the dynamic range is no where near as good as with a proper active preamplifier with gain.
I highly recommend proper technical analysis so the performance can be objectively analyzed, rather than subjective impressions. "sounds softer" should be able to be quantified as let's say a roll-off in the top end. It's impossible to evaluate performance just by listening. Sure, listen but everyone will give you a different subjective impression, which overall tells us nothing about what is really going on.
I measure speakers all the time there is a distinct difference between what you might see in a freq response compared to the overall presentation, especially with a product like that as it doesn’t sound like a lot of other gear. But I bet my speakers would measure exactly the same. If you want gear lab measurements you won’t get here
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Fair enough. It just gets a bit frustrating as a technician interested in Hi Fi as there are few channels that actually use any kind of lab gear to test audio components. When people use poetry to describe what they are hearing I have no idea what they are talking about, 🙂
Passive is a volume control in a box. What do you pay for if the most expensive german volume control is only four dollars. This box must me made of gold. Anything added to the sinal line introduces noise and rubbish so what is the point. Do you not already have some kind of volume control in the system. Just to have another knob to turn.
It’s not a pre amplifier as it does not amplify. it’s a passive volume control an a source selector. As it has no ability to drive a power amp it will always sound thin.
Thanks for watching, for a more detailed review see my website here www.pursuitperfectsystem.com/the-bespoke-audio-co-passive-preamplifier-review/
It's a £15.000 (copper wires or £18.000 for silver plated wires) switchbox with an attenuator. It has two transformers to galvanically separate the signals from the input to the left and right outputs and those transformers are the only ones that will colour the sound, as no transformer are totally transparent to the sound and usually affects the treble making it softer and not sharp enough. A transformer works by having one winding that are feed the audio signal and will then create a magnetic field and that field are picked up by a second winding and converted back to sound. It's not a lossless function and will also colour the sound as the inductance in the windings works as a low pass filter, and all transformers have less efficiency at higher levels as it will need to create a stronger magnetic field and could reduce the dynamic range, but that could be a good thing as it adds more presence to the sound as it gets more compressed and the low level details gets more pronounced when they are raised in level.
As the box has no loudness function, to increase bass at lower listening levels, you will need to listen at an ear blistering reference level. I also prefer to adjust bass and treble depending of the music production and also to tailor the sound to the room, which will be different for each listener and in most cases will need correction.
You usually have only one source that you use for really high end content so you can take that and connect to a box you build with a double rotary switch and solder resistors to it to make it a stepped attenuator and connect the output to one of the inputs of the amplifier, that usually have two selectable inputs. You can even have a toggle switch that short circuit most of the volume resistors to ground for a mute function. It would cost you £100 for gold plated switches and will have a more true audio as it doesn't have any transformers. But people doesn't do that as they would like to have more control over their audio, with loudness and bass and treble controls and room calibration functions to make your speakers more adapted to the room.
Bespoke? Might as well call it ultra boutique! A good review and very interesting but only hypothetical for most including me. I couldn't imagine what an entire system including that preamp would cost.
Wonderful review as usual Terry. As a TT2 owner myself, with no analogue sources, this did seem like an intriguing product. During the review I was guessing price would be around £5-6k and I was thinking “how about TT2+Pre amp vs TT2+Mscaler?” When you revealed the price (I’m guessing your review unit you with silver wiring and VAT would be around £18k) it suddenly became very much of academic interest only.
The word “bespoke” was the tell. 😂
Was hard but I tracked down a review that stated the price at 200,000 Kroner ($29,000).
I was guessing the same, but when I heard "made individually" i guessed between 12k and 15....
I'd be in the market at $500 US
Jk.. this looks awesome. I just can't afford
Music First or a Glasshouse tvc preamp are more affordable.
In my experience the tension you describe can be caused partly by a source component slightly overloading an input stage on an active preamp. A passive preamp can't be overloaded in the same way so the shouty tension doesn't exist. I've actually been able to solve the problem with active preamps by using attenuators on the inputs to reduce the signal enough to avoid the problem. Everything sounds more relaxed. The other advantage of a passive preamp though, is that there shouldn't be any distortion at all, at any level.
This is very true. Blame THX, line levels standards doubled in output levels after it came out. Poweramps with attenuators on the input also reduce the 'tension'. There are sound technical reasons for it. I made a balanced receiver in my preamp that converts to unbalanced and attenuates signal before going on to the unity gain buffer > alps pot > unity gain output buffer.
Terry, very good description of the “sound” of how passive preamps sound. I had a Sonic Euphoria preamp many moons ago and used it mainly with digital playback. I eventually stopped using it because I missed having tone controls. But if someone is listening to a system without any additional equalization or adjustments, it is definitely worth spending time for an audition. The Sonic Euphoria was using RCA connectors with unbalanced inputs and outputs and was one of the few components where I could hear a difference between different interconnect cables. I eventually settled with Cardas Clear 1 meter cables.
I've never heard an active preamp as good as a passive. When you analyze the sound you soon realise that anything which sounds better with a passive, remains better, and it doesn't matter what sort of music you're listenng to. On the other hand, active pre amps where there is an aspect which you think might be an improvement, quickly reveals itself to be an exaggeration or a distortion (in the truest sense of the word) of the sound.
This review is spot on. It's so true that using digital volume has it's merits, but digital highs punish and the stage flattens as depth collapses [compared to the Bespoke]. But also, digital attenuation is actually lossy, and that only gets worse at lower volumes. While the beeswax encased transformers were mentioned, the TVC/autoformer design was not (which is where all the money is going). Where most passive and active preamps attenuate signal via a POT or multiple resisters (both of which convert signal to heat), this unit uses the 46 taps on those transformers.
This is a super deluxe product but much cheaper options are available. The Tisbury Audio passive pre is quite nice. I have one of these and also Goldpoint balanced passive pre. These are both stepped attenuator designs. Passives are also available with transformers for attenuators instead of resistors for attenuation. I think Townsend Audio used to make one at a much lower price.
I have never liked the volume controls in Dacs and like to run Dacs at maximum output. Some power amps don't like passives and some run better with active pre's . I have several power amps and some are better with passives and some are better with actives.
This preamp really has caught my attention thanks Terry 😃
Great review Terry.
I've been using passive preamps for years. It's all about controlling the potentiometer with line level devices.
There's some amazing solutions out there.
Yes! This one probably uses step-up transformers as well?
Huh, controlling what potentiometer?
I always enjoy your reviews so thank you for this one.
I have been using a AVC (autoformer volume control) unit with remote control for a while and am very happy about the sound quality!
I've been using passive pre-amps for years. When the system suits them - ie no significant loss in dynamics due to the source being able to drive the signal through the pre-amp OK - they work very well.
As Richard Dunn used to say: the only thing better sounding than the finest component is no component at all.
Less is more.
If you ever get the chance, try an NVA P90SA or P50SA.
Richard was a genius . I initially thought his ideas a bit far fetched until I got hold of some NVA power amps . I was shocked. Such a natural refined musical experience..
You can pick up a passive pre amp for £100 . Townshend Allegri and Allegri Reference are worth a punt albeit they cost £2k,£8k respectively. With a decent digital volume control one could argue you don’t need any kind of pre amp but they can make a huge difference . I had a preamp which does an ADC of analogue sources and upsamples and I found this sound to be better than compared to a reference tube pre amp . As always this is a fun
Hobby ( and can get very expensive!)
I heard your first sentence and the Source/ Preamp is the most important link in the entire chain of the sound system.
Had a StereoKnight passive pre for a couple of years. In the end I found that I preferred an active pre in the system.
Great review, way above my budget.
Compared to the pre of my integrated amp, I prefer the Schiit Pre. The comments suggest I should try different output levels of the DAC, interesting!
I use a Hattor passive pre amp with optional 3 step active stage. It's a good solution for gain matching future upgrades either side of the pre amp.
Thank you Terry. That looks an absolutely beautiful pre amplifier.
The preamp is the most important piece in the system to get right. But its not something anyone can tell you. You have to hear it for yourself. Now that you've heard it, I may be able to give you some insight as to what you are hearing. I noticed the first thing you said was how much better digital music sounded. I can only speculate, because I haven't heard your system, but I would say that's partially right, at best. What you're really hearing is how much damage a lesser preamp is doing to the sound. And that's why I say the preamp is the most important piece to get right. Its usually overlooked. Ask any good high end audio designer and they will all tell you the same thing. Its much harder to build a good preamp, than a power amp. The weaker the signal, the bigger effect that changes have on the sound. For example, to design a preamp to equally match a power amp in sound quality, the preamp has to be built to a higher standard than the power amp. A line level signal is much more susceptible to damage than what goes to your speakers. The same applies to a MM phono stage. Its much weaker than a line level signal. And for an MC cart, its even more important. That's why some of these pieces cost so much. The application demands better quality.
I'm willing to bet that you've heard many passive preamps over the years, and just didn't realize it. Creek, Naim, Ayre, McCormack, Pass and many others have all used passive preamps in their designs.
Moving forward, you don't have to spend a huge amount of money on a passive like this to get good sound. You just need to be aware of how important the preamp is in the context of your system. I know the one you reviewed is expensive, but most of the time, passive preamps are a low cost way to get better sound. A good active preamp is expensive, and not everyone has the money to get one. However, if cost was not a object, most of us that support the use of passive preamps would buy an active preamp. Its just now that you are hearing how important the preamp is, its throwing you off balance. Your definition of what an audio system is, has been redefined. Knowing what you know now, you can spend half the money on a new preamp (active or passive), and get a massive improvement in sound quality. You may even find something you like better. You'll see this as you listen to more equipment. But you can't tell someone this. You have to experience the difference for yourself like you did in this review.
I defo agree with some of this but please don’t think this is my first rodeo with very high end gear. I have listened to many big value systems half million and so on. I can only think of a handful where digital sounded smooth like this but when it’s a whole system you don’t know what is the cause. This has not been an overall discovery for me as much as this is just an excellent pre amp that sounds superb
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I wasn't suggesting that you don't know what good equipment is, or have no experience with it. Its just very common that audiophiles at all levels don't always realize how important the preamp is, and how it effects the sound. It shouldn't be overlooked is all I'm saying.
Watching your video, it looks like you are just finding this out.
There is a little bit of theatre in that for getting the point across , but also I have spent a lot of time with integrated's so you dont get to choose or think about it so its also true
With a digital source, I've found the speakers to be the most important part of the system.
With vinyl it's a tie between the speakers and the analogue source being the most important.
But then I've always used either integrated amps or affordable passive pre-amps.
'Passive Preamplifier' is not a very helpful category. This is a Transformer Volume Control (TVC) preamplifier, it is very different in both sound and impedance characteristics to the potentiometer/resistor passive preamplifiers some people are writing about in these comments
Terry has the giggles in this review!
Interesting- as an EE and an audio fanatic I am intrigued by what they are after here.
It appears to be a coupled transformer system that is literally stepping up the line analog signal via two transformers?
I would suspect those windings are extremely tight, and hearing/seeing 1.6KM of copper wire into those units gives you a sense of just how tightly wound they are.
Tugs on the interesting 'end goal' as we say in the audio community: "the best (amps/preamps) would be a straight wire with gain."
Have they achieved that here???
Pioneering product perhaps!?
Great review, cheers.
It’s beautiful inside and out for sure.
Anyone considering passive volume attenuation NEEDS to read up on impedance matching between source, pre and amplifier. Check your system spec and do the homework before buying!
Wow! Very nice Terry it looks the goods. I have an original Rotel Michi RHC10 passive preamp that goes along with the RHB10 power amp. I agree with your description the RHC10 also sounds very organic 3-dimensional enveloping when you are listening to it. The only thing is you just have to push things a little further around on the volume control because there is no active signal amplification from the preamp.
Great video I really enjoyed this review.
You're Right. It is a fine piece to build around. Very Nice. Thanks. 🔈🔉🔊
WOW! Beautiful piece…but out of the price capabilities of this audiophile….I guess that I will just have to keep slumming it here in The States with my Schiit Freya+, which has a 1. Passive, 2. Differential Buffer and 3. Differential Tube Mode (that I just upgraded the capacitors & resistors in the tube stage's circuit and I also vented the top plate on it for better heat dissipation). I am sure that the passive mode on my Freya+ is NOTHING like the Bespoke…but it would be fun to compare them!!! Very interesting video, Terry. 👍🏼😀
I think these are becoming more popular because of digital audio; DAC output signal strong & lends itself to passive preamp (which is just a volume control, with no gain). All volume controls are attenuators - they don’t turn the volume up - they actually just reduce the volume from “unity gain” - can be done at widely varying levels of quality and this piece is an example of exactly the right way to make one
It's the guy who was with usic First Audio, so it's a transformer based pre-amp. I have the MFA Classic V2 and it is excellent.
This looks amazing. A few thoughts of mine. I use passive preamps to test facts as it tells you how the dac sounds and not how the preamp sounds. Normally I use a class d amp because they normally don’t color. As for the transformers that’s really interesting. I’m building a streamer dac with transformer outputs as it gives you that amazing soundstage you describe but with limitations as you also describe. Mine can swap also to op amp output for leading edge sounds. The preamp you have is very impressive but did they mention anything about impedance? Transformers normally change impedance and this can be a drawback for some systems. Thanks for the amazing review
Gorgeous. Inside and out.
Very interesting piece of kit. You did a great job describing it. Seems like its acting more like a filter with an attenuator to control the volume.
Transformers always act as somewhat of a filter. That is why they are so important to the sound of tube amps, and why companies like McIntosh wind their own transformers.
Thanks Terry.
Given the materials used, theres no justification for those prices, but once you are at these prices I guess people are not looking for value. My previous experiences with passive pre amps suggests they work only in very specific circumstances, though im pleased you managed to tune your output so you felt you had achieved these.
Your comments on digital 'tension' were interesting, as im completely unaware of it and have never heard anyone else suggest its exsistance either. I like a smooth laid back delivery and have not had difficulty in achieving this with digital sources, ive never felt like im battling an inherent tension with the format, but im operating at lower levels (Auralic altair g1. 1 feeding Naim NAP 250DR), and simply dont have the breadth of experience you will have.
Not something I would consider even if I had that type of cash to squander , but its an interesting unit and Im grateful for your piece on it, thanks!
To be fair it worked fine with in my setup, including my phono stage which is good but not super high end or super esoteric etc, all with no issues at all so I think if your system is not super wacky then this preamp will be totally fine. Maybe that is why its costs more as its solving issues other designs have. I dont know enough to look at that any deeper
Great video! I'm quite familiar with passive-pre's and their schematics, never really cared for them to be honest, but this one with all the balanced options looks nice! Way off my budget though... I am actually putting the funds together for an all-balanced pre-power set with lot's on in/out options on both units to combine with my home theater system. Plus things like tape-loops that I've recently started using again a lot!
As always Terry great review. Interesting piece.
🙋♂️THANKS TERRY, I HAVE NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT IT,SO MY HEAD IS STILL IN THE SAND, 😅🤷♂️ But so has been my ❤budget 😁😉💚💚💚
I recently bought an old Audio Research SP11 mk 2. Made a big difference.
what were you running before it, and how would you characterize the difference?
Thanks for a very good review. It would be interesting to hear if the same effect is present when paired with the Chord Dave. Thanks for your usual honest and carefully considered work. Greetings
I don't see why you wouldn't but I obviously don't know :)
H Terry, I found this to be a particularly interesting review as I have a very similar passive preamp from Music First Audio in line with Chord TT2/M-Scaler. I use the the TT2 in DAC mode and never considered the possibility of using the MFA into the preamp of the TT2. These types of preamps are also know as Transformer Volume Control devices (TVC) as essentially they are just performing as a volume control (with input selection). I much prefer the overall sound quality resulting from using the TT2 as a DAC with the MFA; however, I am intrigued by your experimentation in using a TVC as an attenuator into the Chord TT2 and will try it myself. It will be interesting to try the different gain adjustments through the TT2 settings.
Great to be of service haha
Lovely review. What a fantastic product. I would love to hear what one would do to compliment my system. Unfortunately I shall never know because of the cost. ...and that's a sad thing.
Same here... I'm considering Khozmo Acoustic, as they seem to be very good with reasonable price.
The fact I live in a little council flat my priorities is being able to play my music at reasonable levels.
Yeah I get that mate, is a real world challenge
Knob feel satisfaction AND getting slapped in the face!....
A stunning tool for the very discerning Audiophile.
Great review 👏🏼... £12k... is bespoke to an elite few 😂
Big up RUclips channel and I like the preamp.
A passive pre-amp, should not add anything to the sound, it's just an attenuator & it just let the power amp do it's thing, so what your hearing is just the sound from the power amp on it's own, the power amp has had the shackles removed, ie a pre-amp can change the sound of the power-amp, it's just my experience, great video Terry 👍
Excellent, love to hear it, cool runnings
Beeswax is used to seal the transformers. Technically passive is not a preamplifier. They are a sound attenuator/impedance matching device. All the "wire" specified is because the device is primaily matching transfers and reostats/potentiometers. There is no amplification, so of course it would be less volume level. The "volume" on a passive, is actually an attenuation of the audio signal.
As there is no amplification, no active components, it doesn't add any artifacting to the sound and there is a lot less chance of a source "overloading" an input stage, as it takes a lot more signal than to saturate a transformer.
The Silver version Bespoke is even better Terry !
Terry wait until you listen to the new Clarisys Audio Panel Loudspeakers they are unreal !!
A very special transformer similar to the ones that were used for moving coil phono cartridges and some resistor/capacitors networks.
You do have to accommodate the fact that it's a passive pre. I have found after trying a high quality UK made one and making my own version they can be problematic and fussy of the rest of the system.
Impedance matching of source, pre and amp, along with length, capacitance and inductance of the interconnects affect the performance of the passive preamps.
This is the main consideration with passives and no one else has really pointed it out. Impedance matching of each stage will vary widely with different sources and amps. And it is absolutely necessary to investigate this beforehand... Find out source output impedance, amp input impedance, pre in and ou impedance... Do homework and maths to confirm it is technically within correct parameters at different volume levels.
I didnt have any impedance matching issues, using the gear shown in the video, maybe if you have esoteric gear there could be issues but this pre seemed totally fine even with my phono stage which is very normal
Sold my preamp for 12k and replaced it with a Lampizator Golden Atlantic for 10k. My system never sounded better.
"We don't need no stinking preamp!"
How do you change between different music sources without a pre amp? So maybe you dont need a pre amp but others do and will
Great review Terry. Kiss (keep it simple, stupid) is what came to my mind. I like the concept very much. But, considering the price, I will mind more complicated issues like DIRAC options my NAD M33 and C658. I’m told Terry can help with those too.
Terry is Mr Dirac, nuff said there
Thank you. Will look at Bespoke. What is your reference hi fi full set up? Thank you again.
All listed in the video description box
Anything in the path will leave a signature. When we review ANY item, it will always be OUR INDIVIDUAL preferences that will intrude and guide our choices.
it's a very interesting product, it reminds me of the Ypsilon Eelctronics, which is muck more expensive but rated as one of the best preampli with the DartZeel and CH Precision.
The thing is piano sound in person can be "sharp" if it is FF and smooth when p or pp. Violin can be pretty powerful and "sharp" in person. If piano or a violin or a trombone for that matter always sounds smooth in my system, I kown it is not reproducing the sound faithfully or the recording did not capture the true sound.
Thanks for this review. Was very intrigued by the slightly hyperbolic title! But you completely lost me when price was revealed! Love niche brands and hand-made gear but resale value is usually poor and chances to deliver on expectations at such price point is rather low IMHO. Still, interesting to look at the beauty of this piece of gear.
To be fair if you had this custom made for you why would you ever want to sell it. This is not gear you sell this is one for life
Interesting. I wonder what it's doing and if it can be easily replicated.
I have some big old transformers I can feed my input signal through. Input resistance is very high anyway so maybe it has something to do with inductance? Also it could be the left/right windings are on the same coil so there is some cross talk/phase attenuation going on that gives the perception of a wider soundstage?
Thanks for the inspiring reviews as always Terry
In your opinion is this holographic soundstage limit to the Bespoke or a general property of all passive preamp? Thanks.
The Fixer from Transcendent Audio is a great one
Beautiful piece but $12-18K in British pounds so $25K for me in Canada makes it unobtainium for me. I would be curious to demo it at my hifi dealer against similarly priced preamps from other high end manufacturers, though maybe the bespoke aspect of this piece makes pride of ownership a thing that outweighs its relative performance 🤔?
they arent at same actual price, i believe the lessfox is just as much as cayins
When will you review those Sparks Terry...?!
Thats the next project actually
wax for potting the transformers? can't help wonder the 'trade off' (factoring cost) of using a stepped attenuator rather than a quality pot - baring in mind the signal is possibly running through 12 metres of thin hook up wire(balanced 2 channel) plus the transformer wire. I suspect where your power amp is a nice high impedance to start with the advantages of the transformers give a diminishing return? For £15k I would certainly be comparing it to other options!
I’ve tried a few passive preamps in my system. Unfortunately none of them were a good fit in my system. They all sounded flat . Just no drive and lacked dynamics. I’ve been told that my components need to be closer together with much shorter interconnects between them in order to get the benefits of a passive pre. Maybe I will revisit a passive someday but for now I’m perfectly happy with my active tube pre/ss amp combo
There is a question about that on the website and they say that is not an issue with this preamp so I think it shows not all gear is the same and created equal. Maybe partly why this pre amp is so expensive is because it’s over coming those issues. I played records just fine with nothing fancy just my usual TT setup and the volume and dynamics were all great as good as any other time if not better in some ways
@@PursuitPerfectSystem interesting. Yes , maybe that’s why it’s more costly than other units. I definitely like the concept of a passive pre and not having to move components and purchase new ic’s definitely sounds appealing
Beautiful amp. Try comparing it to the Holo Audio Serene KTE
“Knob feel”. He-he.
lol my kind of humour!
the last timemi thought about both was a few minutes ago.
You get it then :)
oh yes, @@PursuitPerfectSystem
Why did you not remove ALL preamps including the pre from the Hugo?
Because the amplifier would likely only receive “maximum” volume from a source like a DAC. It could blow the speakers, and/or not allow one to listen at a reasonable level to evaluate.
Welcome to the world of transformer audio...
A transformer have one big advantage compared to all active parts and that is lower distortion with raising signal.
All active stages have higher distortion with raisning signal.
So with a transformer, low and high level signal CAN have very similar distortion level and that is the key to the good sound of a transformer.
With active parts high level signal have more distortion and that is changing the reproduction of the recorded signal.
Ultimately a active tube preamp with a transformer output is the way to go if you want some gain, better input and output impedances and still keep the super musical fluant sound.
For this price you can buy a very nice full stereo system.
I have used a passive pre since the early days of CD - the output is more than enough to drive a power amplifier. For those with relatively deep pockets, the transformer driven passive pres are the best but even a properly designed passive with a quality pot is far better than putting an active pre amp in the signal chain. Most passive pres connected to just about any half decent power amp are going to lay the source bare - as you have discovered with your TT. In this digital age, the DAC is king (and queen). Everything goes through it. CD transport, streamer, tv etc. Get that right and you are in hi-fi heaven (as long as you are happy with your speakers!). And there are a lot of DACS out there which aren't great. Before you send that lovely Bespoke back see if you can borrow a PrimaLuna tube DAC. They are not expensive in hi-fi terms (£3,000) and you will probably keep it...
Great looking product. I don't think any passive pre-amp is worth that much money + you can buy them for a hell of a lot cheaper to do the same job, maybe not as well but as you know it's all diminishing as you go up. Better off spending that sort of money somewhere else in your system. Unless of course money is no object!
Seems like it's doing the impossible, converting the puny signal from vynle to power amp compatibility. Certainly a power amp can't amplify the direct signal from a magnetic cartridge and you can't get more energy to boost the signal without an external power supply. Perplexed!
You would still need a phono stage to boost the level the same as normal but with a phono stage this preamp works fine. I tested it with my turntable setup and Avid Pellar phono stage
So it's not just crackheads in Hastings? 😆
It looks fantastic, it's the Ferrari or passive preamps.
I got a Khozmo, their prices are more online with my salary 😄
It would be helpful if you would measure the ideal input voltage coming from your Chord TT2 and tell us that, along with the volume level range you are using on the passive pre for best results. Also, I am guessing that given the nature of potentiometers, you probably will get best results near the top end of the range, since the signal is passing thru much lower value resistors...
This preamplifier has a transformer volume control, there are no resistors or pot. It's output impedance decreases as you turn down the volume, so it should actually perform better at low levels.
As a matter of interest, with which power amp(s) did you use the passive pre?
NAD M23
I like Hattor audio very much. If you like to have what you missed on bespoke..
Well, you might also want to take a look at another British product namely Music First. Also pricey
but not as much as bespoke .
This is remarkably similar to the Music First Audio designs which have been around for years.
Raised my hopes there Terry and then cruelly dashed them. It is a beautiful thing though
Happens to me all the time as well, you can imagine whats its like keep sending this awesome gear back when you just got it sounding great
12:50 You'd think that setting the dac output to max volume and then connecting the passive preamplifier would be the right way to connect the two but maybe the signal off the dac is too hot for the passive pre (e.g. causing some distortion due to the core saturation or other magnetic effects) or it could be that there is some synergy between the distortions of the two devices' distortion profiles. I would doubt it is the former as the pre ought to include the max input voltage etc in its specs so it would be easy to find out if the dac output would be too hot.
Not maximum just in a higher range, with more time maybe I could find a better way but for the review period this is just what I discovered
I sold my US $4,000 Balanced Audio Technology tube preamp after listening to my system with a passive preamplifier. Of course you don't need to spend an arm an a leg in a preamp like this one to enjoy a very transparent musical event in your own system.
A passive preamp only attenuates the volume of a power amp. It's the make or type of resistors in chain on the volume potentiometer that give it it's sound. I've never like intergrated amps, they just have a tense sound. By choosing a nice preamp (Audio research) in a system the pre amp becomes the voice of a system. I use an Audio research LS17 and a Mcinttosh MC302, it's a match made in heaven.
pre-amps have an un needed gain stage which degrades the sound - all you need is impedance matching from digital source to amp with a way to control volume
No resistors here Will that is a different design
Hows the overall dynamics compared to actives? I've always found the dynamics are at least 15% less impactful with passives
I spoke about this at length
Um, no, don't believe so. Listened to this video 3x now n nothing mentioned on macro or micro dynamics, impact or slam, weight or dynamic realism, and so forth. Thank you for correcting me or pointing me to the time frame point otherwise
I didnt say the word micro dynamics or macro, but I mentioned no obvious trade offs so that means good for both, however in the comparison between the TT2 I noticed the macro dynamics were better from the TT2, so I went about solving that and did. Then how can you get weight and slam from a pre that has no intended sound character - thats not really something to talk about here. Realism is bullshit, no hifi sounds real its impossible for it to, but i used the words pleasing, and organic (even that is total interpretation) which is about the best a hifi can do really.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Mr. Pursuit Perfect, I thank you for your best reply, kind sir! I've personally worked in 4 ultra high end audio salons, 1 big box AV chain store, and 1 custom installation company over the decades , before branching out on my own to do custom and acoustical engineering on my own. Besides all of that, been an audiophile (at least a strong enthusiast during the nearly 3 decades I've been in and around hifi, so I've seen/heard LOTS of products come and go over the years, to be straight. So when I mention dynamics, impact, slam and what not, I'm comparing what I've heard from different preamps, active, passive, digital volume controls and dacs, direct from source, and so on..(case in point, I used to sell Pass Labs many years back, and owned the Aleph L passive from that company - which was dynamically weaker sounding - which was much more expensive Aleph P preamp, which had good slam and dynamic transparency, if I remember correctly) I've found that the active line stage preamps have been , by far, the more weighty and impactful sounding of the lot from experience. Opinions on what's real/accurate/most lifelike, whatever, is, of course, up to impression and opinion. Although I'm pretty sure one can surmise that what's actually recorded probably has more dynamics, realistically, than what a hifi system can reproduce - piano key attack, drum whacks and "umfff" ,for instance. That nonsense all said now, NO, I still have absolutely no idea (other than my own guess/ theory) what those described aspect of that preamp is offered from this unit , based on your review! Thank you for the response again, however. I did try ...I think
Sorry to disappoint but I can only say the same thing again, this pre is designed to have no sound of its own, so to talk about certain sonic aspects of the its sounds is hard because its designed to no have any. I explained that straight away because its critical to the whole review.
The only way to create a greater context for that would be a direct comparison to another unit, but its hard to do that because what do you choose another passive or another active preamp both create their own situations that are different and wouldnt allow me to solve your dilemma because what are talking about here one pre giving you the truth and the other adding. Or one pre giving you the truth and the other taking away. How does anyone know the answer to that.
I have done a lot of audio recording and you will be surprised by the limitation of it so it's not clear really how dynamic something should sound.
Here is the take away, this I did explain, I feel with this type of pre, if you like what it does, it would sit at the centre of your system and you would build your system around it, therefore if you want more slam you choose the right amplifiers and speakers / subwoofers to give you that and so on.
A passive preamp can be nice in a system and this one looks awesome - but I think that there is too much emphasis on the exterior here - while the interior is mostly forgotten. Performance of a passive preamp is determined by the synergy in a system, important is which resistors are used in what configuration, and what the output impedance of the unit is set at. Try a Khozmo Acoustic preamp for example, and you will be able to tailor the components and get similar, or perhaps even better results and you save enough money to buy a new car.
To be honest I dont see how you can say it will be the same or better results when the designs are so different, totally different. I think thats a huge assumption and best not to make then with no direct experience when you think about it,
@@PursuitPerfectSystem you could be right yes, and I most likely never will have such an expensive preamp in my system, and so I will never know. But I do know that the job of a passive is to stand as little in the way of the signal as possible - and that alone can easily be achieved with a lot less money. When I was looking for a good active preamp an expert suggested me to try a passive - and that was an eye opener for me. I guess that you as a reviewer could try out a Khozmo, compare it to the Bespoke, and give us your opinion. To be clear, I do respect you as a solid reviewer, and quite a few times your reviews helped me a lot. Only I think that interior customization of a product is a lot more important than the outside - and I don't like silver :o)
iconpro4 which is a avc would be a fun review
theres no tone controls on my ps audio pre. not an issue
Strictly speaking, this is not a preamplifier as it provides no gain. These types of devices are normally referred too as a Transformer Volume Control (TVC). Also, it is massively important to understand how this device works as it relies on the output impedance of the source device it is connected too, as well as the input impedance of the power amplifier to work correctly. Depending on these two parameters will effect how the TVC will work. Get it right and it will work OK. Get it wrong and it will perform badly. A trait of any TVC like this, as well as any other passive volume control type device, is the dynamic range is no where near as good as with a proper active preamplifier with gain.
Should have called it the Overunity.
Sounded really nice. Then I looked up the price...
Not sure why you were breathless on this one?! 🤪
I highly recommend proper technical analysis so the performance can be objectively analyzed, rather than subjective impressions. "sounds softer" should be able to be quantified as let's say a roll-off in the top end. It's impossible to evaluate performance just by listening. Sure, listen but everyone will give you a different subjective impression, which overall tells us nothing about what is really going on.
I measure speakers all the time there is a distinct difference between what you might see in a freq response compared to the overall presentation, especially with a product like that as it doesn’t sound like a lot of other gear. But I bet my speakers would measure exactly the same. If you want gear lab measurements you won’t get here
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Fair enough. It just gets a bit frustrating as a technician interested in Hi Fi as there are few channels that actually use any kind of lab gear to test audio components. When people use poetry to describe what they are hearing I have no idea what they are talking about, 🙂
Passive is a volume control in a box. What do you pay for if the most expensive german volume control is only four dollars. This box must me made of gold. Anything added to the sinal line introduces noise and rubbish so what is the point. Do you not already have some kind of volume control in the system. Just to have another knob to turn.
Always found passive preamps to be thin and unengaging.
Wow what ever happened to listening and enjoying music.
It’s not a pre amplifier as it does not amplify. it’s a passive volume control an a source selector. As it has no ability to drive a power amp it will always sound thin.
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