Ampeg B15N | Clicking Issue | Merch Announcement!
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Hello! I wanted to make this video in case anyone is struggling with a strange clicking issue with their tube amp. A lot of the time, clicking is attributed to filter capacitors or tube issues, but in this case, it was a little outside of the box.
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This issue is called MOTORBOATING - See D-Lab's video on diagnosing this problem. It's a failing (towards opening) winding on the output transformer.
I’ve never seen that specific fault before. I’ve been playing with tube amps off and on since my high school band days. I’m a septuagenarian now. Good work.
As soon as I heard the sound I said transformer plate movement. Sometimes a few drops of lacquer on the plates will fix it. First time I heard it was an industrial transformer 15 20 KW something like that.
Colleen, This might sound strange but can you try these steps. Using the original output transformer turn the amp off and let it cool say for like 15 minutes. Now take a hair dryer on its lowest setting and lightly apply heat around the output transformer itself until its warm to the touch might take a minute or two. Now turn the amp back on does it still make a ticking sound? I am hoping this heating process might disturb something like a winding that has arc'd over to the shell or nearest ground point. It might even shift some previously dried varnish back into place.
Neato. I played my Strat through a B-15N along with a little combo amp for overdrive and reverb. Sounded great and gave an awesome "skinny-fat" sort of tone with lots of low end thump. The flip-top really is handy and looks super cool. I don't know why more companies don't do a similar design.
I have serviced over 1000 valve amplifiers and don't recall any transformers causing clicking, but there's always something new to learn! I've had many amps that motorboated but it's not been the output transformer's fault. From your video it's not obvious whether the amp is motorboating or there's an insulation breakdown issue. Thanks for your informative videos.
That intro is fire! And cudos for figuring out that one!
My buddy used to have a B15N fliptop...... When you put the head on top of the cabinet and powered it up a plastic plate with Ampeg printed on it would light up.
The output transformers common ground must have had milliohms of resistance from the internal transformer insulation. When transformers heat up or age the insulation internally will add resistance. You can use a milliohm meter to measure the milliohms from the transformers chassis mounts to the transformers common ground wire.
Ah, the good ol' flip top ... internal arcing in the OT? Yeah, that *is* weird ...
Sporadic/intermittent noise irrespective of the volume control position usually suggests something amiss in the output section. Helps to narrow down troubleshooting. Nice job, I have a '67 that is PTP and near and dear to me.
Commenting at 3:35 in video before seeing the rest. I am thinking it’s bad resistor with crack you can’t see. Try freeze spray and chop stick to locate and keep it happening for longer.
Now at end of video. Well I was wrong on that. Thanks for sharing Colleen. Always more to learn that is for sure.
A hi-pot test on the transformer might indicate which winding is shorting to the tx core.
Nice and yes regardless if it's a solidstate or tube amp I have ran into crazy issues !
Yeah it's kinda hard to see electrons when they're not going in the right direction. Lol.
I work on all kinds of different stuff, lawnmowers, snowblowers, 4-wheelers , minibikes, snowmobiles, occasionally music equipment, but mostly cars.
But then all of a sudden 3 different people brought 4 "red" guitars for me to repair all within 2 weeks. Go figure eh?
Too bad Bob Rigoni that owned music stores in Waukegan, Illinois has passed away. He would have known how to fix that problem for sure. I almost typed fox 🦊 instead of fix 😜😎😍
In 30+ years of doing this I've replaced more Ampeg B15 transformers than I can remember. Power and output...... Not unusual for one or both to go bad.
The clicking I've only experienced once and that was in a Super Reverb and it was the power transformer. Crazy making since it was super intermittent!
Good work and thanks for sharing. Say hi to Bryan Sours for me.
well done, great troubleshooting !
I think that the arcing inside of the output transformer is caused by the constant hammering of the coils by a single note, probably an E. I think that the low note causes the coils to loosen and rub the enamel insulation to wear and cause arcing between the conductors.
Hey!, I had a clicking issue, that was steady, in an Alamo 6-A amp, I purchased in a bundle of amps, a few months back. There is no available schematic for that amp. I plugged it into my variac, and slowly bring up the power. The amp had a filter cap replacement job, and it looked a bit sketchy. I was very conservative with bringing up the power, and got no sound from the amp. I decided to swap out tubes one at a time, with known working tubes. Still no sound, except, i had no replacement for the 6SE7 tube. I looked through my stash of unknown quality tubes, and found a metal jacket 6SE7. I put that in, and all of a sudden I got sound, that clicking sound. I figured some sound was better than none. Long story short, I did not have the voltage high enough to get sound from the amp, but the clicking sound was audible with the lower voltage. I assumed I had an issue that I did not have the skillz to fix. Anyways, after some online questioning of more talented repairmen than myself, I put the original 6SE7 in the socket, and I had tone, and no clicking. Actually, the amp sounds fantastic. My problem was being over cautious, and assuming a bad tube was good, and a good tube was bad. Now, I have to figure out how to fix the tremolo, without a schematic.
Excellent video + intro!!! 👍
Such a great video! I recently had a 30s radio with two 47 power tubes fed by a transformer from the preamp. Transformer acts as phase inverter, and is wired exactly like an output transformer in reverse. Anyway, I chased a static popping sound for too long before finally condemning that transformer and replacing it. After pilling the covers of the bad trans, it could be seen that the laminations were pretty loose and deteriorated.
Hit enter too soon ;) Just wanted to close by saying that this stuff happens to professionals all the time, and you handled it like a professional, by consultation and careful troubleshooting, not just throwing parts at it. Extra credit for the resistors strapped across the caps when having to get creative making a part when one isn't available. Again, Well done!
I have the exact same problem on a b15NF, the clicking is way softer but is constant and won't go away (what a pleasure on sustained notes on recordings ...) i've spent hours trying to understand where it comes from ... need to check output transformer then ...
A great and interesting mystery........with a happy ending !!!!! Always fun !!! Cheers !!!
Makes you miss Rosangela's Pizza on West 95th St. Oh yeah bad OT😅
Very cool, thanks for sharing your troubleshooting process and your discoveries!
Output tx problems can be hard to trace, as you experienced. If it is loose plates in the tx, pull the covers and soak in a can of shellac for a few hours, let dry for a couple of days (Or put in conventional oven at 150- 200 deg.F for 6-8 hours), and that will fix it. I ran into the problem numerous times in TV sets, where it was more of a buzzing than a clicking; and sometimes in the antique radios I worked on, especially in the PS section. The shellac needs to totally soak into the tx winding areas and core laminations.
I saw much more internal arcing in both power & output tx is items that had been left in damp places and the customer did not bring them in to let them thoroughly dry out before turning on.. Moisture could also cause arcing between tube pins/ ground on the sets too. Good job on catching the bad tx.
Have a b 18 doin same thing thanx for the tip
My first guess would be caps too, my second something with an unstable feedback. Sometimes it is the most unexpected cause - nice job!
On my 71 Marshall super lead 100. I will get a popping sound. If I hit a cord hard with the pic turned out to be the tube socket. I had a crack in the plastic between two pins. It would ark.
What is the amp with huge pointer knobs and bare wood cabinet to the right of Colleen, in front of the Marshall combo?
Is that pizza green pepper and onion? That's my favorite!
It is probably the metal oxide varistor that is on the primary side of the power transformer circuit. You can temporarily short it out. Get rid of the death cap when you are in there also.
Great video.
....or too much time spent next to a drummer whos beat the amp was trying to emulate. A ghost in the machine and climate change causing this "Motorboat" effect.( Sorry just being silly). Your videos are almost as good as an episode of Columbo!
Cool Intro. good OT tip too, thanks for sharing!
Excellent work, as usual.
I think it is the output transformer.
So your input is the output?
@@mikeshaw4951 yeah, kinda, maybe. Haha
Plate Resistors in the Phase Inverter
very interesting ,i would of never guessed it was the output transformer ,you are a genius Miss Fazio
Hey beautiful collen❤😊
Crazy vidz 😁love them
Unless it's a modern Ampeg in which case the cause is private equity garbage milking a brand name that no longer means anything.
Ampeg destroyed its legacy after it shipped all production offshore. I know dealers that gave them up because of all the issues with failing and defective units. One regional store chain told me they had a return rate of 25% within the warranty period, and that Ampeg never improved QC or revised its return policies to make service claims easier.
Always a pleasure
Nice intro - friggin' hilarious, totally tubular!
Maybe the output transformer's insulation is breaking down. You might try mitigating voltage spikes with reverse-biased diodes across its primary (anodes to ends, cathodes to center tap) or output tubes (anode to GND and cathode to plate), or lowering the plate voltage to prevent insulation breakdown, but generally if it's dying, it's dying...
I was also thinking tube sockets - bakellite / phenolic ones sometimes show insulation breakdown from plate to heater/cathode/suppressor grid if B+ is high. That usually ends with a charred socket, pretty easy to spot.
The transformers are potted (tar? beeswax? likely *not* epoxy) and perhaps tge potting material has become conductive, or a charred arc-path developed when moisture infiltrated the can?
@@goodun2974 possible; insulating paper or magnet wire enamel breakdown may be a thing too.
Nice intro, ha ha.
😮😊👌🥰👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Witaj 🤝 Pozdrawiam z Polski 🇵🇱👋
Hey Colleen, fellow electronics enthusiast here about your age. Can't get the checkout thing to work on your site to buy the new shirt. There's no box to enter my card info, it just stops at the discount code box and won't let me go any further.
Hey there! Thanks for letting me know. A few people have mentioned this issue, but it works ok for others. Are you attempting to purchase via your phone or computer?
@@FazioElectric I am using a regular computer. I was just now able to get the page to load correctly by temporarily going around my DNS firewall (special box at work, not software). Seems that stripe or squarespace is trying to use something that is in one of the common blocklists. I'm sure it's just an error and there's nothing to worry about. You could put a note on the site if enough people have trouble. Glad I was able to place my order, love the new design! The intro was great. I love jokes like that, learned about tubes from my grandpa who was an EE in those days
@@RickBaconsAdventures I’m so glad you were able to get around it! Thank you for your persistence :) I’m chatting with tech support now just to make sure, and I added a note on my website. Thank you so much for the support and for bringing this to my attention! I’m so glad you enjoyed the intro, we had fun making that hehe. Long live tubes!!!
noiceeee
Hi fazio are you an 80’s baby ??
so Babelicious Colleen Like 👍
Freeze spray would have shortened the process.
I tried freeze spray and heat to get the issue to rear its head more - it only clicked at start up!
that's what happens when you use a tube that comes with pizza
Nice Idaa ...to Intro~~~:) ...Best regards from Poland:)
Looks like a martini tattoo on Colleen's inside right wrist; shaken, or stirred? 🤔 (James Bond says "shaken", always😉). I'm not into tattoos myself, but that's a nice subtle one ---- and Ms Fazio can do what she wants!
I would totally let Colleen do neuro surgery on me. LOLOLOLOLOL
Weird one thanks for sharing!
You are beautiful. Respectfully.... smile
so creepy
@@MiguelisNoisy Since when is a compliment creepy?
@@mikeshaw4951 if u have to ask you’re probably a creeper too.
google ‘why is it bad to tell a woman to smile’ and you’ll learn something.