As a kettlebell practitioner former physio, pressing in scaption plane is fine, from a biomechanic standpoint. Side pressing is kinda different that you can leverage under the bell. Personally I press in the scaption plane always have and it works for me. For jerks keeping everything straight is best, shortest distance and less having to muscle the bell. Find what works for you within the limits
I am so glad for these videos . I just acquired my kettlebells & tried some presses & wow that didn't feel right after watching this video now I see what I was doing wrong.
Say whatever you want but I have tennis elbow and golf elbow in the same arm so I do feel right away the pain that comes with bad technique, since I began to do them as demonstrated the pain just disappeared. Thanks a lot man
Wonderful video: you perfectly explain the correct form of execution. This mistake is due in most cases to use of a weight too heavy for one's own strenght. Greetings from Italy😉
Very Good advice. Most people have no idea of the correct Top Position and the correct Path with which to get there. They keep using Dumbbell principles for muscular hypertrophy and that does NOT apply to Kettlebell Lifting, unless you want to perfect the wrong movement.
@@signkutter9218 the whole purpose of keeping the elbow in front of the body, and NOT moving laterally, is to move on to the next skill, the Push Press. That leads to the Jerk. The Press, when staying in the front of the body, allows for the elbows to reach the iliac crest (front of the hip). This allows the Lifter to employ the hip thrust VERTICALLY and not forward or sideward. If a lifter does not learn the proper plane of movement for the press, then the Push Press and Jerk will NEVER reach itself optimum potential. Gregory demonstrates this movement perfectly for a reason. If you employ a lateral press (which engages the side Delt) you will NEVER learn how to launch from the hips straight up. That’s what I mean by wrong way. I never said you couldn’t move laterally, however any lateral movement will not allow for the Lifter to Push Press or Jerk with any real power
@@VegasMoe Yep, I get it,,,but keeping the kettlebell in the correct position for the movement chain leaves out the side delts...side delts are a great thing to have in balance with the rest of the shoulder muscles...I use a more stable form a Scaption Press in corporated with a clean and jerk with a stable isolated flared out press...it hits the side delts much more than the "correct" version. I dont launch from the hips in this version...Clean gets the kettle bells racked...the elbows go out to the sides, the press happens totally powered by the shoulders with no "push" from the hips or legs. All in slow motion As much as i enjoy and learn from Lebe Stark instruction...i am not looking to be a Kettle Bell expert in as much as i am looking to incorporate the great benefits of Kettlebell dynamics into my own goals for strength and conditioning. I also do the proper movement when i am concentrating on the front delts
@@signkutter9218 Understood. I believe Gregory is teaching this specific "method" so that it leads to the next skill(s). A progression if you will. Again, to reiterate what I said before, most people press, push press, and jerk laterally. That movement plane is very close to what a person would do with a dumbbell. Dumbbells and Kettlebells are 2 different objects. They CAN be used in similar ways, however in order to really maximize your skill level, you might want to consider learning more of a "straight up" path. I realize you may have no desire to employ that particular path, but I do believe if you ever want to develop the POWER to put as much weight as you can in the Top Position, you might want to learn the KB Sport "straight up" path. Respect to you.
I fucked up a nerve in my right shoulder real good doing it the wrong way (i.e. flaring my elbows out). Took a couple years to heal. Hopefully it won't happen when I use this technique instead.
Was able to check myself because I normally work out facing my patio door and at night you can see your reflection in the glass. The elbow lines up as it should though my forearm actually moves towards the center of my body when racked. Considering how long I’ve been doing presses I’m lucky it’s correct because otherwise it would be a challenge to fix after practicing doing it wrong for so long.
I too do this, use the glass reflection especially when squatting and doing C+P. It is good to try and check your own form and make sure silly things like you are hinging enough. Its a really good tip actually for people.
Thank you for specifically confirming how my elbow should be positioned during this press! The only question I have is how should my shoulder be positioned and should I keep it at that position during the press? The way that I rack the kettlebell is that I have a tendency to push my shoulders forward to keep it balanced on my body and I push it back as my elbow reaches my ears. Should i keep it pushed back and down like when I do farmer carries and should i keep it that way throughout the entire motion from rack to overhead?
You‘re welcome! Since you bring your elbow „to the middle“; aligning it under your wrist joint, your shoulder is already in a state of flexion. This means that you arms do move forward to a certain extent. If the weights get heavier and I still aim to strict press it for example, I tend to lean back a little to bring the weight closer to my center of mass. I hope this helps! - Gregory
In many others YTube Coach KBell training videos is normal to see that they use to move the elbow sideways to the chest (about 45°) at the start the movment (anyway not to push straight in the frontal plane like you). Is it a mistake? Are both okay? Congratulations for your work!
Both are okay Nico. It's two ways of pressing. The straight up version demonstrated in the video is the most efficient (and in my eyes beneficent) way to press for many people. - Gregory
I think my form is good, thanks to these great videos! But I’m a bit stuck on my clean and press between 16kg and 24kg. (I have no access to any other equipment) I can comfortably press 24kg with my right arm but my left needs a ‘pop’ from my legs…. Am I just over thinking things? Or do I need to do a higher volume of reps at 16kg, or maybe just persist at 24kg ? Sorry if this is too specific for a RUclips comment
@@lebe-stark sure thing, i've been using heavy tools daily; hammers, nail guns, spanners etc in my right hand for well over a decade so it is not entirely suprising.
Something that might help, I recently started C&P with my 24kg and had to use a push press to get the weight up. Then I use a slow negative and was able to do 3 sets of 3 reps and will keep working this until I can do a strict press. Also, I always work up to the level of my less stronger arm and try to reduce any imbalance. Otherwise, yes it could be a volume problem and Mark Wildman has some excellent videos on how to convert volume sets of different weights.
@@nathanvandendungen4450 nice, mark wildmans videos have been a good source of information also so i'll have a look for something specific to reducing imbalance through volume with different weights. I have been doing the push press and slow negative for about 8 weeks, similar being 3 x 5 reps. I've without doubt increased in power but it feels like a sudden stall in rate of progression just on my lefthand side thanks for the suggestions
NO. and I'll tell you why. That position that he shows is identical to what Gymnasts do when finishing every skill in a Handstand. It's very stable and can support weight extremely well.
The way this video is framed is less than ideal. Those are just two variations on the OH press - side vs front. Neither is right or wrong. They work different angles and create somewhat different stresses. KB Sport likely focuses more on front OHP and hard style likely on side OHP. Each serves a purpose.
I agree. I learned the military press from SFG practitioners and my teacher presses side. To me, it also feels better. So for me, that is more "efficient" - I can press much more weight when I press hard style (side).
@@lebe-stark "The human body prefers efficiency" Sure. And efficiency helps with endurance. But not necessarily with the stimulus for muscle growth. The two movements are neither right nor wrong, they are focuses on different goals. To frame it otherwise is inaccurate.
Hmmm. Comrade Pavel says you should flare-out slightly when starting the press. Who ya gonna believe? Hmmmm Not saying who is right/wrong or if it matters.
There is a variation called "Scaption" or "Side Press" which might work more muscle mass. Pressing up in a straight line is the most efficient way to press. I'd say we both are right. - Gregory
@@signkutter9218 I didn't say Comrade Pavel was wrong. Nor did I say Lebe was wrong. I've watched many videos regarding the Press and it's always stressed to do it one way. No one explains the difference between the two. If you make a video and stress to do it one way, "the right way" but you know that there is another acceptable way then it should be fully explained. The KettleBell moves are much more technical in their movements and not fully explaining that there are two, or more, ways to complete the exercise leaves beginners, or more experienced users learning new moves, confused. I think Lebe has a great channel with great instructional and informational videos, but Comrade Pavel wrote the book, literally.
@@lebe-stark I think I already commented this in another video, but I believe there's an argument to be made about overhead pressing following the so called "scapular plane". And is not a side press, it's a normal overhead press where you just flare your elbow a little bit, around a 45 degree angle, like when performing a pushup or a bench press. I'm not saying that's the most effcient way to press, but I think that's where most of the people can apply the most force when pressing overhead. As always, two different techniques that should be used according to your own specific goals, but I'm pretty shure that if you were to try and press the most ammount of weight overhead, without turning it into a side press, you would flare your elbow a little trying to find the scapular plane. On the other hand, if you are doing a set of multiple overhead presses or jerks for time, as fast and efficiently as possible with submaximal weights, then shure, flaring your elbow each time would be a waste of energy and time. Anyway, great video as always. Keept it up.
Could you plz make a playlist of fundamentals beginners, there is alot of your vid's just don'no from where to start, even your basics playlist is too long and need to be reduced at least the old and repetitive, not just adding and updating it.
@@lebe-stark oh so results don't matter here? I'll leave quietly. Last time checked even CrossFit people actually developed muscle and 90% of what they do is wrong. Enjoy being weak and ordinary. Happy Thanksgiving
@@tommcgivern8020 If your understanding of results (and strength) is only limited to building muscle, you seem to be having a pretty narrow minded opinion of human performance. - Gregory
Dude I’m into cycling as well and there are bodybuilders in those topics making the same sort of comments about a totally different topic. It’s really weird😂😂
Perfect, I have to admit, i was doing it wrong all the time. From now on, I will keep more focus on my technique.
Thank you SO MUCH ! I injured my rotators cuffs and i was wondering why. I got it. Now i m gonna do it the proper way
Thank you Gregory, this was a big help. No more shoulder pain for me when following this guide.
As a kettlebell practitioner former physio, pressing in scaption plane is fine, from a biomechanic standpoint. Side pressing is kinda different that you can leverage under the bell. Personally I press in the scaption plane always have and it works for me. For jerks keeping everything straight is best, shortest distance and less having to muscle the bell. Find what works for you within the limits
Thanks for sharing Cody! From an efficiency standpoint, pressing straight up is a better way to do it. - Gregory
Does middle delt work only when you do side pressing?
I am so glad for these videos . I just acquired my kettlebells & tried some presses & wow that didn't feel right after watching this video now I see what I was doing wrong.
It's always good to get a refresher. Thanks!!
You‘re welcome Jason! - Gregory
Say whatever you want but I have tennis elbow and golf elbow in the same arm so I do feel right away the pain that comes with bad technique, since I began to do them as demonstrated the pain just disappeared. Thanks a lot man
Thanks for sharing your knowledge, you are a great teacher.
I appreciate that! I hope the tips are helpful! - Gregory
Definitely something I need to work on as I work towards 10 mins with 24s (plus flaring elbows on cleans). Thanks for the helpful and clear tips.
Very key video Gregory.
Wow, that is Amazing Video!!! Solved my problem with the Overhead movements.
You got a new fan.
Great to hear! - Gregory
Excellent, sir! Thanks a lot!
Great video instruction on basic move. I’m on holiday and joined a gym, what people do with bells in jaw dropping!
Glad it was helpful!
Wonderful video: you perfectly explain the correct form of execution. This mistake is due in most cases to use of a weight too heavy for one's own strenght. Greetings from Italy😉
Thanks G never thought about this exercise
Happy to help!
Amazing, thank you! I've been doing it wrong all the time
Happy to help!
thanks
You're welcome!
Very Good advice. Most people have no idea of the correct Top Position and the correct Path with which to get there. They keep using Dumbbell principles for muscular hypertrophy and that does NOT apply to Kettlebell Lifting, unless you want to perfect the wrong movement.
Well said!
Targeting the side delts by flaring out isnt wrong....its different...with a different target
@@signkutter9218 the whole purpose of keeping the elbow in front of the body, and NOT moving laterally, is to move on to the next skill, the Push Press. That leads to the Jerk. The Press, when staying in the front of the body, allows for the elbows to reach the iliac crest (front of the hip). This allows the Lifter to employ the hip thrust VERTICALLY and not forward or sideward. If a lifter does not learn the proper plane of movement for the press, then the Push Press and Jerk will NEVER reach itself optimum potential. Gregory demonstrates this movement perfectly for a reason.
If you employ a lateral press (which engages the side Delt) you will NEVER learn how to launch from the hips straight up. That’s what I mean by wrong way. I never said you couldn’t move laterally, however any lateral movement will not allow for the Lifter to Push Press or Jerk with any real power
@@VegasMoe Yep, I get it,,,but keeping the kettlebell in the correct position for the movement chain leaves out the side delts...side delts are a great thing to have in balance with the rest of the shoulder muscles...I use a more stable form a Scaption Press in corporated with a clean and jerk with a stable isolated flared out press...it hits the side delts much more than the "correct" version. I dont launch from the hips in this version...Clean gets the kettle bells racked...the elbows go out to the sides, the press happens totally powered by the shoulders with no "push" from the hips or legs. All in slow motion
As much as i enjoy and learn from Lebe Stark instruction...i am not looking to be a Kettle Bell expert in as much as i am looking to incorporate the great benefits of Kettlebell dynamics into my own goals for strength and conditioning. I also do the proper movement when i am concentrating on the front delts
@@signkutter9218 Understood. I believe Gregory is teaching this specific "method" so that it leads to the next skill(s). A progression if you will. Again, to reiterate what I said before, most people press, push press, and jerk laterally. That movement plane is very close to what a person would do with a dumbbell. Dumbbells and Kettlebells are 2 different objects. They CAN be used in similar ways, however in order to really maximize your skill level, you might want to consider learning more of a "straight up" path. I realize you may have no desire to employ that particular path, but I do believe if you ever want to develop the POWER to put as much weight as you can in the Top Position, you might want to learn the KB Sport "straight up" path. Respect to you.
Thanks for the great video, question for you, in regards to the wrist dispostion at the top, would this also apply to snatches?
Exactly! - Gregory
I fucked up a nerve in my right shoulder real good doing it the wrong way (i.e. flaring my elbows out). Took a couple years to heal. Hopefully it won't happen when I use this technique instead.
great
have you watched dan johns demonstration of the kb press? the elbows are very flared out.
Yes, because most Hardstyle/RKC guys never press up in a straight line.
@@lebe-stark thanks for the answer. Pressing it as shown in your video feels healthier in my shoulder.
Was able to check myself because I normally work out facing my patio door and at night you can see your reflection in the glass.
The elbow lines up as it should though my forearm actually moves towards the center of my body when racked.
Considering how long I’ve been doing presses I’m lucky it’s correct because otherwise it would be a challenge to fix after practicing doing it wrong for so long.
Great to hear you got it right from the start Mark! - Gregory
I too do this, use the glass reflection especially when squatting and doing C+P. It is good to try and check your own form and make sure silly things like you are hinging enough. Its a really good tip actually for people.
Thank you for specifically confirming how my elbow should be positioned during this press! The only question I have is how should my shoulder be positioned and should I keep it at that position during the press? The way that I rack the kettlebell is that I have a tendency to push my shoulders forward to keep it balanced on my body and I push it back as my elbow reaches my ears. Should i keep it pushed back and down like when I do farmer carries and should i keep it that way throughout the entire motion from rack to overhead?
You‘re welcome! Since you bring your elbow „to the middle“; aligning it under your wrist joint, your shoulder is already in a state of flexion.
This means that you arms do move forward to a certain extent.
If the weights get heavier and I still aim to strict press it for example, I tend to lean back a little to bring the weight closer to my center of mass.
I hope this helps! - Gregory
In many others YTube Coach KBell training videos is normal to see that they use to move the elbow sideways to the chest (about 45°) at the start the movment (anyway not to push straight in the frontal plane like you). Is it a mistake? Are both okay? Congratulations for your work!
Both are okay Nico. It's two ways of pressing. The straight up version demonstrated in the video is the most efficient (and in my eyes beneficent) way to press for many people. - Gregory
I think my form is good, thanks to these great videos! But I’m a bit stuck on my clean and press between 16kg and 24kg. (I have no access to any other equipment)
I can comfortably press 24kg with my right arm but my left needs a ‘pop’ from my legs…. Am I just over thinking things? Or do I need to do a higher volume of reps at 16kg, or maybe just persist at 24kg ?
Sorry if this is too specific for a RUclips comment
Thanks for sharing Chris! A certain level of imbalance is normal and something many of us have to live with. - Gregory
@@lebe-stark sure thing, i've been using heavy tools daily; hammers, nail guns, spanners etc in my right hand for well over a decade so it is not entirely suprising.
Something that might help, I recently started C&P with my 24kg and had to use a push press to get the weight up. Then I use a slow negative and was able to do 3 sets of 3 reps and will keep working this until I can do a strict press. Also, I always work up to the level of my less stronger arm and try to reduce any imbalance. Otherwise, yes it could be a volume problem and Mark Wildman has some excellent videos on how to convert volume sets of different weights.
@@nathanvandendungen4450 nice, mark wildmans videos have been a good source of information also so i'll have a look for something specific to reducing imbalance through volume with different weights.
I have been doing the push press and slow negative for about 8 weeks, similar being 3 x 5 reps. I've without doubt increased in power but it feels like a sudden stall in rate of progression just on my lefthand side
thanks for the suggestions
Thanks for helping out Nathan! - Gregory
isn't going fully all the way up and close gonna irritate the acromion?
NO. and I'll tell you why. That position that he shows is identical to what Gymnasts do when finishing every skill in a Handstand. It's very stable and can support weight extremely well.
The way this video is framed is less than ideal. Those are just two variations on the OH press - side vs front. Neither is right or wrong. They work different angles and create somewhat different stresses. KB Sport likely focuses more on front OHP and hard style likely on side OHP. Each serves a purpose.
The human body prefers efficiency; so from that standpoint a press where the shortest distance is covered is better. - Gregory
I agree. I learned the military press from SFG practitioners and my teacher presses side. To me, it also feels better. So for me, that is more "efficient" - I can press much more weight when I press hard style (side).
@@lebe-stark "The human body prefers efficiency"
Sure. And efficiency helps with endurance. But not necessarily with the stimulus for muscle growth. The two movements are neither right nor wrong, they are focuses on different goals. To frame it otherwise is inaccurate.
Hmmm. Comrade Pavel says you should flare-out slightly when starting the press. Who ya gonna believe? Hmmmm Not saying who is right/wrong or if it matters.
There is a variation called "Scaption" or "Side Press" which might work more muscle mass. Pressing up in a straight line is the most efficient way to press. I'd say we both are right. - Gregory
Pavel isnt wrong...he is describing a slightly different movement. I train both of these movements
@@signkutter9218 I didn't say Comrade Pavel was wrong. Nor did I say Lebe was wrong. I've watched many videos regarding the Press and it's always stressed to do it one way. No one explains the difference between the two. If you make a video and stress to do it one way, "the right way" but you know that there is another acceptable way then it should be fully explained. The KettleBell moves are much more technical in their movements and not fully explaining that there are two, or more, ways to complete the exercise leaves beginners, or more experienced users learning new moves, confused. I think Lebe has a great channel with great instructional and informational videos, but Comrade Pavel wrote the book, literally.
@@lebe-stark I think I already commented this in another video, but I believe there's an argument to be made about overhead pressing following the so called "scapular plane". And is not a side press, it's a normal overhead press where you just flare your elbow a little bit, around a 45 degree angle, like when performing a pushup or a bench press. I'm not saying that's the most effcient way to press, but I think that's where most of the people can apply the most force when pressing overhead. As always, two different techniques that should be used according to your own specific goals, but I'm pretty shure that if you were to try and press the most ammount of weight overhead, without turning it into a side press, you would flare your elbow a little trying to find the scapular plane. On the other hand, if you are doing a set of multiple overhead presses or jerks for time, as fast and efficiently as possible with submaximal weights, then shure, flaring your elbow each time would be a waste of energy and time. Anyway, great video as always. Keept it up.
Could you plz make a playlist of fundamentals beginners, there is alot of your vid's just don'no from where to start, even your basics playlist is too long and need to be reduced at least the old and repetitive, not just adding and updating it.
If you're looking for structure, check out our courses: academy.lebestark.ch - Gregory
Boost
The biggest mistake in my gym is not wearing a shirt.
Bro, your body hair is the envy of lesser men.
Appreciate the video, but please put a shirt on.
The guy with no shoulders says...
This channel isn‘t about Bodybuilding Tom. Let us know if you need directions to the Generation Iron forum! 💪 - Gregory
@@lebe-stark oh so results don't matter here? I'll leave quietly. Last time checked even CrossFit people actually developed muscle and 90% of what they do is wrong. Enjoy being weak and ordinary. Happy Thanksgiving
@@tommcgivern8020 If your understanding of results (and strength) is only limited to building muscle, you seem to be having a pretty narrow minded opinion of human performance. - Gregory
Dude I’m into cycling as well and there are bodybuilders in those topics making the same sort of comments about a totally different topic. It’s really weird😂😂
Different body goals. Some people don't want to be a pumped up loaf who can lift a boulder for 15 seconds before gassing out.