Long time investor. Picked up the wife a 2021 Y Long range a couple of months ago. FSD is blowing my mind! It drove us 30 miles via mostly highway, picked up my daughter and son inlaw, went to lunch and it dropped the kids back home and nobody could tell it was the car driving. Moderate to heavy traffic, I didn't have to take control at all. It has arrived!!!
Easy highway driving is no challenge to FSD. Try driving in a busy big city, during morning or afternoon rush hour. Then the truth about FSD will be revealed. It is nothing like a human driver.
I'm an investor, but have never ridden in a Tesla so also never experienced FSD. As a casual observer of FSD videos, aggressive drivers feel it's too timid and conservative drivers feel it's too aggressive. Maybe it's just safe and legal, unlike the two edges of a bell curve. Hmmm...... I do agree with "local driving culture". In Houston, Kansas City I've observed that if you're not doing 80+ mph on the interstate, you'd best be in the far right lane or risk getting run over. In other city cases, speed limit is a maximum, not a minimum. Cheers from New Orleans
Yep, you can tell self-professed aggressive drivers (this is one of them) complain about timidness, and then you have tons of people who don't care. I think some people just have a tough time being in the passenger seat, and I suppose being in the driver seat and not driving is even worse. I'm guessing these people also suffer from road rage more frequently...
@@Nakameguro97 Or: put a bunch of people in the back behind the driver's seat, have them guess if the car was driving or not. A controlled blind trial.
@@johnr5312 Experts in AI, computer science, and control systems say *minimum* 10 years until Level 5 Autonomy. And maybe much longer. Remember, people in the 1950's assumed we would have flying cars by 2000. They were dead wrong.
Your point on how speed limit expectations change per location is huge for why I'm a bit uncomfortable using the auto max speed. I turn it off in a couple areas where I know you can't go more than 4 or so MPH over the speed limit. I wish I could define zones to never go over or, better yet, just let the right scroll wheel adjust the max speed. If I'm going 9 over the speed limit and scrolling down, you'd think the car should be thinking "Oh I guess I should slow down here." I don't want to get a ticket because my car randomly decides with no traffic around that it needs to go excessively fast. I'm cool with it if it's keeping with the flow of traffic but it does this when it's alone (it once went 73 in a 55). What's the point of me making an offset speed if it doesn't follow it? Also have noticed that FSD in general seems to like to go a bit under the speed limit or a bit under what I would drive (5MPH over). It's weird. I like that I can override it by accelerating but I don't like that my insurance will ding me if I override it and it does something unsafe...so I tend to not override it unless I'm out on open highway.
Hey John. 3.4 seems like a big step forward. Yesterday it did my six mile trip to the gym with zero interventions - the first time any version has managed it.
I don’t get why people are mad for FSD is driving just below speed limit . That’s why speed limits are for , you can’t really go above speed limit in theory.
V12.3.4 , issues to resolve- recognize toll roads, right turn on red, doesn’t recognize school zone to slowdown, penchant for unwarranted lane changes on highways, changes lane within a short distance from exit lane and misses exit, too frequent nags , on auto speed the car speeds by 10-15 mph on a 35 mph speed zone, certainly don’t want to get a ticket for speeding.
Right turn on red is working well for me. Also unwarranted lane changes on highways were minimal and easily corrected via the turn signals thus accelerating improvements. It's getting exponentially better with each release.
I’ve experienced all that and more. While impressive, it is still only a level 2 by definition. I personally have not experienced exponential Improvements with each release. Many of the V11 issues still exist and V12 has added a few of its own. AI has its work cut out for it.
I use FSD on the highway ever day, and it always tries to force its way into the middle lane. Today it tried to force it's way over out of an empty lane and into a lane in front of a state trooper who was uncomfortably close. I am sure I would have gotten pulled over if I didn't take over. Why can't FSD remember that I prefer minimal lane changes?
I wish mine was trying to stay in the middle lane. I had the opposite issue of it trying to boldly jump into the fast lane with people zooming at 20 over the speed limit and it would still do this with around 1 mile left to the exit. It's infuriating. No, Tesla; you will not be able to reasonably get past the 8 people lined up in front of you in the middle lane before the exit. It also annoyingly tries to stay on the left when lanes open up regardless of whether it needs to pass someone. Why can't default behavior be: stay right unless you need to pass?
@@gaydybwad1321 You mean like how I signal for my Tesla to go right when a passing lane opens up, it starts moving a bit and goes back and cancels the signal, so I angrily hit the signal again, and it almost passive-aggressively slowly eases into the slow lane while some jackass is trying to rev past me at 20 over the speed limit? Like that? Yeah yeah. It's perfect.
Your observations are similar to mine on 12.3.4 so hopefully Tesla will focus on these things. Just some constructive criticism (everyone is a critic) 😉 I don't know if you can control this but the sharpness is cranked up so high on your video that there are halos around everything. Makes everything look like it has a layer of "frost" on it.
ON a recent trip back from CA on FSD12.3.3 we had a similar experience. On AZ state route 85 between Interstate 8 and Interstate 10. The speed limit moved up from 35 mph to 65 mph but FSD remained at 35 mph for at least 16 miles was very frustrating scrolling up at 30 mph over programed speed limit.
They are getting close. Three areas to work on. One, slowing down for barcode readers to open the gate at a gated community. Two, slowing down and taking the SunPass lanes at toll booths. Three, slowing down to flashing “20 mph School Speed limit zone” signs.
Agree. 12.3.4 was to get it to legacy, like my computer upgraded MS 2017. Thank goodness. Insanely better than 11.4.9 was. Looking forward to further improvements but very happy with current version.
I have FSD 12.3.4 on my car. I notice that it turns smoother than earlier versions. However, I notice that there is a consistent flaw. When there is a temporary lane that merges left (bus stop or highway on-ramp) it does not react properly when there is a car on the left side. It tries to race the car on the left when the merge lane does not have enough room. I then disengage the FSD and wait for the car on the left to pass so I can then safely merge into the left lane. I think the problem is that FSD does not yield to cars on the left. Would you please investigate this phenomenon in your FSD testing. Thanks.
That left turn is similar to one that I make often, onto South Candler northbound in Decatur GA. There is a 'suicide lane' and lots of traffic. I've found that I need to goose the accelerator fairly often when in FSD.
@@benholdeman174 Are you flipping kidding? FSD is *nothing* without a human watching like a hawk for *every* *second* of the road trip. FSD cannot be trusted to drive alone on any mildly challengine route. FSD is a simple minded Level 2 assistant. Period.
The good thing is, even with these slow accelerations into turns etc, you have not had any accidents. I know you have taken over a few times, but even some of those might have been okay. Which is good, hopefully that data is getting through to Tesla and they can optimise the speed etc
When you first engage, I'm on 12.3.4, you get a window (bottom left) that's says, "Please keep your hands on the wheel." In a couple of videos, you have said that's not needed, but between the notification and the still ever-present wheel nags, suggests the opposite. Am I missing something? Love your videos, btw.
I'm with you John! I haven't seen any Improvement between 12. 3. 3 and 12.3. 4 it appears the last two or three dot releases have just been to add new vehicles specifically the last for Legacy. I'm still optimistic the rate of improvement will increase. Let's see a real update though
As a police officer, we were taught that there is the “letter” of the law, and the “spirit” of the law. Discretion is what we as “police officers” enforce those rules what society requires of all of us as citizens.👮🏻♀️
My MY slowed for any emergency vehicle with just its light on yesterday. It couldn’t move over because of traffic in the left lane. Just what a human driver would be expected to do.
I get stuck when out of nowhere a speed of 25 mph shows up… is this from the navigation system?? … not sure, but it won’t go as fast as the speed limit actually is. It is also having trouble reading speed limit signs, also now days the signs in CA say ‘End 35 MPH’ and do not give you the speed limit for the road section you are now embarking on. Overall 12.3.4 is best version so far!!
Just an observation--we don't normally see speed limits above 35 on "residential" streets like this, here in Commifornia. 2:00 plus Driveways opening to 50mph traffic, lawns to road edge, seems hazardous by my expectations. I imagine lot size and density is a factor.
Thanks for the video. 0:25 Not trying to be funny but is it because that's the law? If FSD gets into a crash (supervised or not) and it was just over the speed limit, it will not be a good look for it's proliferation?
I didn't notice much of a change. Timidity, lane selection, and speed continue to be my main issues... which is now being nitpicky. Looking forward to V12.4 and above.
My FSD also goes under the speed limit, embarrassingly so. It often does 45 on a 55 speed limit, and I almost always have to disengage the FSD or press on the gas, making the whole concept of self-driving pointless.
I had assumed that v12.3.4 would be functionally equivalent to v12.3.3 but compatible with the 2024.8.x software tree, allowing the last ~12% of us to get the FSD free month. Did you see any improvements from the previous rev?
Dr Know it all thinks his style of driving is the only one that is acceptable, that's a teacher for your. The amount of acceleration you wish it to apply is probably beyond all those Georgia pickup trucks. If a friend or an UBER was driving you would you be comfortable that is the criteria. I don't believe that every driver in Georgia exceeds the speed limits, some people are rule followers and what do you do when a Georgia Highway Patrol is on the side of the road with a radar gun?
I really can’t understand how you say, the speed limit should be higher and it should drive faster than allowed… Here in Germany many stupids drive too fast nearly everywhere but I do not. I don’t want to get a fine for that and everyone who is stressed about me driving as fast as it is allowed, should calm down. Sure, on some roads you could drive faster but how the F. is it the case, that intelligent people drive faster only because everyone else does it? It is not a safety issue to drive the speeding the sign, it’s one to drive faster! I am very interested, what comes first, cars, that fine you automatically when you drive too fast or Robotaxis that drive like the sign says. 😅 In the EU every new car must beep when you drive even 1kmh too fast but sadly it can be deactivated.
I find it REALLY annoying that it lead-foot it accelerates after every stop if there is no one in front off you. I could see if there was traffic coming up behind you after a turn onto a road, but it does it when nobody is around every time. I'll need new tires at this rate.
It’s crazy thinking back to the first videos of V12 that popped up, before it went wide, how aggressive it was. Just seems like it’s been a bit over-tuned. Obviously, it must be near impossible to find the sweet spot.
I am a (minor) investor, and I paid full price for FSD. Not only is 12.3.4 not better, it is in many ways worse than the late v11.x FSD(Beta) it replaced. It handles turning from a full stop at clear intersections horribly, frequently taking 20-30 seconds to commit on intersections with zero cross traffic and no visibility instructions. Autospeed is awful. On upcoming left turns, it will change lanes into the right lane less than a quarter mile before the left turn and then be unable to get back to the left turn lane because of traffic. Within the last 3 days, FSD has missed 3 turns or exits because of failure to position itself in the correct lane early enough. As in the video, the car frequently wanders from lane to lane and back before committing to the final lane change. My travel is in and around the DC suburbs, where traffic is maddening to begin with. Using FSD is significantly more stressful than just driving myself without the software between me and the road. It's pretty clear that, for a variety of reasons, FSD on current hardware will never support Level 3 self-driving, even on full-stack neural network. They are locked in a cycle where every software update improves some things but introduces new problems (sometimes safety-related). I'm deeply sorry I spent so much money on a system that will never deliver an experience that is better than driving the car yourself.
Tesla gave me a 30 day trial (v12.3.3). Given the current quality, I wouldn’t pay more than $2-3k for the current quality of FSD. The real test for me is, if it can drive more safely than my 80yo mother, never mind an average driver. As a software dev, I’m guessing we’re still 5-10 years out until we reach that point.
Good tests. Could you try as an experiment to swap the two cameras? because the iphone has really good quality and the action camera is... differently abled :) I think the difference in image quality will really lift your videos. Forward cameras are probably the best. Maybe click the outside so it knows to expose by that.
@Dolemite23554 A robotaxy will first need government approval. And if the regulators drive Tesla with FSD themselves, for a few weeks, they will see the truth. Robotaxy will *not* *be* *approved* .
I really struggle with the idea that the car 'should' exceed the speed limit if that's what you the locals do. Breaking the law is breaking the law, regardless of what the locals do.
I find it interesting that your legally not supposed to go into the suicide lane like that in Georgia. I was taught in drivers ed 20 some odd years ago to pull into it, and if you can't immediately get over, to slow down until you can here in Utah.
I have 12.3.3 and even regular left turns are sketchy in some case. This morning turning left on a single lane road, it pulled out and stopped in front of an oncoming car on the left side. I had to quickly try to back up. Hesitation was the main issue and is the main issue in many cases.
Tesla RUclipsr Gjeebs said his wife pulled into a suicide lane to merge and had an accident. She was cited with illegal lane usage and at fault for pulling into the lane.
The big problem is that Tesla hasn't figured out that it needs to have map data involved. Intersections are not all the same. Some are quite different from the norm. The software should have a good idea of the layout of intersections as well as what the sensors are showing. This is called map data. There is no way that this is level 3. Not close. It is a good 2 at best. But Tesla must have map data to help it with city driving. It should also know where construction is. It should never do anything illegal. NEVER!! People have the wrong idea just what self-driving needs to do and NOT DO!!
If we don’t disengage where the software does something that should be reported because of the focus on zero-disengagements how would Tesla get that information? I’ve started disengaging for actions like speeding, missing opportunities or being too slow entering traffic and so on. If we don’t report all the not so perfect actions of FSD Supervised Tesla is getting a false representation of how V12.x is actually performing. They can’t fix what they don’t know about. Personally, had I not pre-purchased FSD, I’m not so sure I would be prepared to spend $135 (CDN) per month based on my experiences with it. The vast majority of my drives are less than 10 kms and I almost never have a drive without disengagements.
I do wonder if some of the apparent hesitance wrt decisions may be directly related to the compute speed of the local hardware. Personally, I am pleased that the current release errs on the side of caution rather than the gung-ho attitude of petrol-heads or teenagers wanting a thrill. Exactly how much time, 'proportionally', did you lose because of the nannie nature of current release? Thank you for the video showing us what we all want to know.
Does anybody talk about FSD braking into a red traffic lights? It's pretty harsh and doesn't lift soon enough. And is FSD actually using the brakes and not ReGen??
_And is FSD actually using the brakes and not ReGen??_ I don't know where this idea came from. No, it's still using regen for pretty much all braking; you can confirm this for yourself by watching the energy line near the top left corner of the display extend to the left during braking, indicating the amount of regen power.
My FSD has used the actual brakes to stop in time a few times. It's pretty easy to tell because you can watch the brake pedal. It generally uses regen braking but it will apply brakes when needed for emergencies or red lights.
@@BigBen621 I do see the green bar for regen. It just feels like it is braking a lot with how jerky it is. Does it wait til the last second to brake for red lights for everybody else? I know my eyes can see further down the road, so I would start to lift to make a nice smooth stop. Where fsd isn't lifting. Small con, as this seems easily fixed.
The way FSD currently stops at Stop signs is super annoying to me. It should stop closer to the intersection unless there is a marked pedestrian path. I pull my hair out each time I use it, and I'm a Tesla bull too. 😡
Could you change the cameras so that your phone is the one pointing forwards and the "gopro" points at your face? Currently the camera you have pointing forwards is absolute trash
Why don't you supervise it more. Lol. You can change lanes or press accelerate more to get tesla to remember what to do when it finds itself in similar scenarios. That gives the AI the data it needs and helps fsd improve right...?
Lol…the solid line means don’t cross….you once again want the car to break the law like you do…..love ya but please let the car drive all the time for everyone’s sake. Definitely a back seat driver
@@BigBen621 in this case there is a dashed line that lets in traffic. Driven it many times. The folks that cross early and pass on the right are a danger to the people following the law. You should never program the car to be an aggressive driver. Assertive is fine but this isn't the scenario on this ramp. Notice how the car performed perfectly by following the road rules.
@@allieflounder5764 I don't disagree-just pointing out that crossing a solid white line *by itself* is not necessarily against the law, as you implied.
Chuck had major regressions on his turn as well with this update, so it's clearly a serious issue. It also illustrates an issue with remote updates. If something is working properly and it is somewhat taken for granted, then It changes and the driver isn't aware, that will cause major issues. The practicalities of this becoming a true FSD are more than daunting.
Chuck Cook also found that this version was inferior for all the things he regularly tests. I wonder if the suicide lane legality is a state law there. Most laws on the books aren't enforced -- they just exist to help judges make rulings if a related accident goes to trial.
Objectively, if the tires don’t scrub the curb, it doesn’t matter how close the system got them to the curb. Missing scraping by a millimeter is more than sufficient for correctness, however nerve-wracking it is. That’s how I drive at times: no harm, no foul. Of course, the problem here is you’re a spectator watching your car appear to be headed towards expensive consequences. I have no dog in this race, nowhere near buying an EV or any vehicle with anything approaching full self-drive. I’d be far more concerned with the hesitations noted, by far, because he who hesitates is roadkill.
Slow to turn? I press the accelerator to tell FSD is safe, and it goes. What's wrong w helping? I'm helping when I press the turn signal when I want the slow lane or an early set up for a turn. I help when I turn the right thumb wheel to change my speed. I like to drive a little.
2022 Model Y: 3.4 has been a regression from 3.3 for me. Auto-speed is useless on my rural roads?! I guess due to few speed limit signs, improper speed limit map data, lack of follow traffic, etc. I have some navigation regression…actual missed a simple turn that was mapped…first time in 5-6 years 🤷♂️ I experience some harsh braking and excessive acceleration. Perfectly smooth driving normally; generally the v12.x series has been much better than previous versions, but not close to robo-taxi ready.
Nope, fsd must stick to the speed limits. If you don't like that, take it up with the relevant authorities, and have the legal speed limit increased. Strict adherence to speed limits will become essential when Tesla accepts full legal responsibility on level 4 and 5
12.3.4 is an absolute shyt show with lane behavior. It’s wildly swinging all over the damn place when switching lanes and anchors too much to the side. Regression for sure.
@@DerekDavis213 they are clearly compute constrained or everything would be solved already. I have plenty of zero-intervention drives from central Houston to north Texas, but there is definitely something iffy about this version. They will solve it as major progress has been made, but they gotta start nailing this down.
I was being sarcastic. After 4 years in beta, and many v12 point releases, FSD is still full of flaws and bugs, requiring many interventions. I drive every day for 10 years without an accident. I can drive in any city in America, even if I've never been there before. FSD is nothing like a human driver!
You don't get nags for looking at the display when wearing sunglasses, because the internal camera can't see your eyes. But I haven't noticed any reduction in nags for steering wheel torque when wearing sunglasses.
Doesn't exceeding the speed limits mean you're breaking the law? Why do you want the car to break the law? Speeding causes accidents let the car follow the rules.
I like to brake and accelerate more smoothly than FSD. And I like to optimize speed to avoid red lights. FSD like teenager gunning up to speed quickly then waiting at light.
I don't think they will but, so far, my FSD has not demonstrated safe driving. I'm a very safe driver and it annoys me on a regular basis by doing things like not stopping at correct spots, fluctuating its speed quite a lot, not properly yielding to people in merges or passing lanes, etc. I love having it and it's an adventure to use but man does it annoy/stress me out to the point of disengaging it in any high-stress situation.
I think u are an agressove driver. I think u know this but u never tell us what settings u use. R u on chill or averge. If you are on the agressive setting then yeah I would agree with you but still, what is agressive to u might no be for others and the other was around. Chill, average and agressive are subjective levels. So it is pointeless talking about it every time. You use the settings that is "close" to your driving style that is all you are every going to get. There will be a distribution around these settings that is all Tesla cares about, if it is good enough for you, who cares, as long as it is good enough for most people.
You drive me crazy! What in hell makes you the best driver. I bet if I was driving you would be telling me how to drive. Does it get you from point a to point b? Did the car get in an accident? Were you safe the whole time? I have watched other FSD videos and they don't have nearly the problems you have. I can't watch you driving anymore. All your big problems with the car driving and your interventions don't prove anything.
![NLE Choppa - Or What ft. 41 (Orchestra Mix) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/biOFASEgSOM/mqdefault.jpg)
Long time investor. Picked up the wife a 2021 Y Long range a couple of months ago. FSD is blowing my mind! It drove us 30 miles via mostly highway, picked up my daughter and son inlaw, went to lunch and it dropped the kids back home and nobody could tell it was the car driving. Moderate to heavy traffic, I didn't have to take control at all. It has arrived!!!
Easy highway driving is no challenge to FSD.
Try driving in a busy big city, during morning or afternoon rush hour. Then the truth about FSD will be revealed. It is nothing like a human driver.
I'm an investor, but have never ridden in a Tesla so also never experienced FSD. As a casual observer of FSD videos, aggressive drivers feel it's too timid and conservative drivers feel it's too aggressive. Maybe it's just safe and legal, unlike the two edges of a bell curve. Hmmm...... I do agree with "local driving culture". In Houston, Kansas City I've observed that if you're not doing 80+ mph on the interstate, you'd best be in the far right lane or risk getting run over. In other city cases, speed limit is a maximum, not a minimum. Cheers from New Orleans
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Yep, you can tell self-professed aggressive drivers (this is one of them) complain about timidness, and then you have tons of people who don't care. I think some people just have a tough time being in the passenger seat, and I suppose being in the driver seat and not driving is even worse. I'm guessing these people also suffer from road rage more frequently...
Dad having cooked for the US Army--"If half say eggs are overcooked and half say undercooked, they are just right." 😊
The real test is if >other< local drivers can’t tell if you’re using FSD.
@@Nakameguro97 Or: put a bunch of people in the back behind the driver's seat, have them guess if the car was driving or not. A controlled blind trial.
My experience with 12.3.4 for the past few days has been awesome and the rate of improvements is exponential.
Exponential? Then Level 5 is a few months away. Right?
@@DerekDavis213 Level 5 will be here long before you realize it, Derek. Enjoy yourself until then.
@@johnr5312 Experts in AI, computer science, and control systems say *minimum* 10 years until Level 5 Autonomy. And maybe much longer.
Remember, people in the 1950's assumed we would have flying cars by 2000. They were dead wrong.
What metric(s) did you use to arrive at that conclusion?
@@DerekDavis213 LOL this guys on every channel saying the same thing. Wild
Your point on how speed limit expectations change per location is huge for why I'm a bit uncomfortable using the auto max speed. I turn it off in a couple areas where I know you can't go more than 4 or so MPH over the speed limit. I wish I could define zones to never go over or, better yet, just let the right scroll wheel adjust the max speed. If I'm going 9 over the speed limit and scrolling down, you'd think the car should be thinking "Oh I guess I should slow down here." I don't want to get a ticket because my car randomly decides with no traffic around that it needs to go excessively fast. I'm cool with it if it's keeping with the flow of traffic but it does this when it's alone (it once went 73 in a 55). What's the point of me making an offset speed if it doesn't follow it?
Also have noticed that FSD in general seems to like to go a bit under the speed limit or a bit under what I would drive (5MPH over). It's weird. I like that I can override it by accelerating but I don't like that my insurance will ding me if I override it and it does something unsafe...so I tend to not override it unless I'm out on open highway.
Hey John. 3.4 seems like a big step forward. Yesterday it did my six mile trip to the gym with zero interventions - the first time any version has managed it.
Is there an unprotected left in the route?
I don’t get why people are mad for FSD is driving just below speed limit . That’s why speed limits are for , you can’t really go above speed limit in theory.
yeah the confusion at why it's going at or just below the speed limit always cracks me up
V12.3.4 , issues to resolve- recognize toll roads, right turn on red, doesn’t recognize school zone to slowdown, penchant for unwarranted lane changes on highways, changes lane within a short distance from exit lane and misses exit, too frequent nags , on auto speed the car speeds by 10-15 mph on a 35 mph speed zone, certainly don’t want to get a ticket for speeding.
Well said! That’s my experience too.
Right turn on red is working well for me. Also unwarranted lane changes on highways were minimal and easily corrected via the turn signals thus accelerating improvements. It's getting exponentially better with each release.
I’ve experienced all that and more. While impressive, it is still only a level 2 by definition. I personally have not experienced exponential Improvements with each release. Many of the V11 issues still exist and V12 has added a few of its own. AI has its work cut out for it.
On 12.3.4, I have none of these issues.
Wow! Still many issues with FSD, the Level 2 assistant.
I’ve been using FSD v12.3 every day since it was available. I’ve found most of the time when it does not drive like me it is actually an improvement!
I use FSD on the highway ever day, and it always tries to force its way into the middle lane. Today it tried to force it's way over out of an empty lane and into a lane in front of a state trooper who was uncomfortably close. I am sure I would have gotten pulled over if I didn't take over. Why can't FSD remember that I prefer minimal lane changes?
Who doesn’t?? lol, I’m in the same boat. It’s a bit mind boggling that we can’t save that setting by now!
I wish mine was trying to stay in the middle lane. I had the opposite issue of it trying to boldly jump into the fast lane with people zooming at 20 over the speed limit and it would still do this with around 1 mile left to the exit. It's infuriating. No, Tesla; you will not be able to reasonably get past the 8 people lined up in front of you in the middle lane before the exit. It also annoyingly tries to stay on the left when lanes open up regardless of whether it needs to pass someone. Why can't default behavior be: stay right unless you need to pass?
FSD can't remember much of anything.
It is a simple minded Level 2 assistant. Nothing more.
So use your blinker to force it into a better lane. You can drive to help.
@@gaydybwad1321 You mean like how I signal for my Tesla to go right when a passing lane opens up, it starts moving a bit and goes back and cancels the signal, so I angrily hit the signal again, and it almost passive-aggressively slowly eases into the slow lane while some jackass is trying to rev past me at 20 over the speed limit? Like that? Yeah yeah. It's perfect.
Your observations are similar to mine on 12.3.4 so hopefully Tesla will focus on these things. Just some constructive criticism (everyone is a critic) 😉 I don't know if you can control this but the sharpness is cranked up so high on your video that there are halos around everything. Makes everything look like it has a layer of "frost" on it.
After many v12 point releases, FSD still struggles with Left turns. When is the training going to *teach* the car what to do? omg
Man Dont you have anything better to do than just bashing FSD. Such a sad life man. Seek help man!
ON a recent trip back from CA on FSD12.3.3 we had a similar experience. On AZ state route 85 between Interstate 8 and Interstate 10. The speed limit moved up from 35 mph to 65 mph but FSD remained at 35 mph for at least 16 miles was very frustrating scrolling up at 30 mph over programed speed limit.
They are getting close. Three areas to work on. One, slowing down for barcode readers to open the gate at a gated community. Two, slowing down and taking the SunPass lanes at toll booths. Three, slowing down to flashing “20 mph School Speed limit zone” signs.
FSD cannot see gates, it will drive right thru them without intervention.
Agree. 12.3.4 was to get it to legacy, like my computer upgraded MS 2017. Thank goodness. Insanely better than 11.4.9 was. Looking forward to further improvements but very happy with current version.
I have FSD 12.3.4 on my car. I notice that it turns smoother than earlier versions. However, I notice that there is a consistent flaw. When there is a temporary lane that merges left (bus stop or highway on-ramp) it does not react properly when there is a car on the left side. It tries to race the car on the left when the merge lane does not have enough room. I then disengage the FSD and wait for the car on the left to pass so I can then safely merge into the left lane. I think the problem is that FSD does not yield to cars on the left. Would you please investigate this phenomenon in your FSD testing. Thanks.
That left turn is similar to one that I make often, onto South Candler northbound in Decatur GA. There is a 'suicide lane' and lots of traffic. I've found that I need to goose the accelerator fairly often when in FSD.
I was actually getting much better drives on 12.3.3 and have had several regressions such as lane positioning and driving in the bike lane on 12.3.4
Yep, me to. 0 safety critical interventions on 12.3.3 after 30+ drives. 3-4 safety critical interventions in 5 drives on 12.3.4.
@@benholdeman174 Critical interventions? omg why is this beta software allowed on public roads?
@@DerekDavis213 FSD is safer just a human...check the data. That is why it is allowed on public roads.
@@benholdeman174 Are you flipping kidding? FSD is *nothing* without a human watching like a hawk for *every* *second* of the road trip.
FSD cannot be trusted to drive alone on any mildly challengine route. FSD is a simple minded Level 2 assistant. Period.
The good thing is, even with these slow accelerations into turns etc, you have not had any accidents.
I know you have taken over a few times, but even some of those might have been okay. Which is good, hopefully that data is getting through to Tesla and they can optimise the speed etc
When you first engage, I'm on 12.3.4, you get a window (bottom left) that's says, "Please keep your hands on the wheel." In a couple of videos, you have said that's not needed, but between the notification and the still ever-present wheel nags, suggests the opposite. Am I missing something? Love your videos, btw.
I have noticed other RUclipsrs say that also but I have the message as well on 12.3.4.
I'm with you John! I haven't seen any Improvement between 12. 3. 3 and 12.3. 4 it appears the last two or three dot releases have just been to add new vehicles specifically the last for Legacy. I'm still optimistic the rate of improvement will increase. Let's see a real update though
Maybe you should talk to other FSD RUclipsrs about your video equipment setup. Quality is... from 2010. Otherwise great videos!
He can't afford a gopro because all his money is in TSLA
I think your left turns are great data for the FSD team. This type of unprotected left is applicable everywhere.
As a police officer, we were taught that there is the “letter” of the law, and the “spirit” of the law. Discretion is what we as “police officers” enforce those rules what society requires of all of us as citizens.👮🏻♀️
How well does FSD support lit up emergency vehicles with or without sirens blaring coming up from the rear to 1) pull you over and 2) to overtake you?
My MY slowed for any emergency vehicle with just its light on yesterday. It couldn’t move over because of traffic in the left lane. Just what a human driver would be expected to do.
I get stuck when out of nowhere a speed of 25 mph shows up… is this from the navigation system?? … not sure, but it won’t go as fast as the speed limit actually is. It is also having trouble reading speed limit signs, also now days the signs in CA say ‘End 35 MPH’ and do not give you the speed limit for the road section you are now embarking on. Overall 12.3.4 is best version so far!!
Just an observation--we don't normally see speed limits above 35 on "residential" streets like this, here in Commifornia. 2:00 plus
Driveways opening to 50mph traffic, lawns to road edge, seems hazardous by my expectations.
I imagine lot size and density is a factor.
Thanks for the video.
0:25 Not trying to be funny but is it because that's the law? If FSD gets into a crash (supervised or not) and it was just over the speed limit, it will not be a good look for it's proliferation?
Totally agree using "suicide lane" as you would is proper, it's a matter of conditions, use it safely as required, legal technicalities a distant 2nd.
I didn't notice much of a change. Timidity, lane selection, and speed continue to be my main issues... which is now being nitpicky. Looking forward to V12.4 and above.
For me, I'm impressed w the things it can do that it couldn't do before.
My FSD also goes under the speed limit, embarrassingly so. It often does 45 on a 55 speed limit, and I almost always have to disengage the FSD or press on the gas, making the whole concept of self-driving pointless.
IR lights for the cabin camera are not new to HW4 - my HW3 2023 Model Y has them.
I had assumed that v12.3.4 would be functionally equivalent to v12.3.3 but compatible with the 2024.8.x software tree, allowing the last ~12% of us to get the FSD free month. Did you see any improvements from the previous rev?
Dr Know it all thinks his style of driving is the only one that is acceptable, that's a teacher for your.
The amount of acceleration you wish it to apply is probably beyond all those Georgia pickup trucks. If a friend or an UBER was driving you would you be comfortable that is the criteria. I don't believe that every driver in Georgia exceeds the speed limits, some people are rule followers and what do you do when a Georgia Highway Patrol is on the side of the road with a radar gun?
21:00 avoiding tractor units is more important than avoiding pot holes.
Not sure why people keep saying the message for hands on the wheel is gone. My 12.3.4 still has that message.
I really can’t understand how you say, the speed limit should be higher and it should drive faster than allowed…
Here in Germany many stupids drive too fast nearly everywhere but I do not.
I don’t want to get a fine for that and everyone who is stressed about me driving as fast as it is allowed, should calm down.
Sure, on some roads you could drive faster but how the F. is it the case, that intelligent people drive faster only because everyone else does it?
It is not a safety issue to drive the speeding the sign, it’s one to drive faster!
I am very interested, what comes first, cars, that fine you automatically when you drive too fast or Robotaxis that drive like the sign says. 😅
In the EU every new car must beep when you drive even 1kmh too fast but sadly it can be deactivated.
I am so bummed that I didn't get the FSD free trial because I had latest update 2024.8.9. My co-worker got it the first week.
I find it REALLY annoying that it lead-foot it accelerates after every stop if there is no one in front off you. I could see if there was traffic coming up behind you after a turn onto a road, but it does it when nobody is around every time. I'll need new tires at this rate.
It’s crazy thinking back to the first videos of V12 that popped up, before it went wide, how aggressive it was. Just seems like it’s been a bit over-tuned. Obviously, it must be near impossible to find the sweet spot.
But...but....AI....Neural nets 😄
I am a (minor) investor, and I paid full price for FSD. Not only is 12.3.4 not better, it is in many ways worse than the late v11.x FSD(Beta) it replaced. It handles turning from a full stop at clear intersections horribly, frequently taking 20-30 seconds to commit on intersections with zero cross traffic and no visibility instructions. Autospeed is awful. On upcoming left turns, it will change lanes into the right lane less than a quarter mile before the left turn and then be unable to get back to the left turn lane because of traffic. Within the last 3 days, FSD has missed 3 turns or exits because of failure to position itself in the correct lane early enough. As in the video, the car frequently wanders from lane to lane and back before committing to the final lane change.
My travel is in and around the DC suburbs, where traffic is maddening to begin with. Using FSD is significantly more stressful than just driving myself without the software between me and the road.
It's pretty clear that, for a variety of reasons, FSD on current hardware will never support Level 3 self-driving, even on full-stack neural network. They are locked in a cycle where every software update improves some things but introduces new problems (sometimes safety-related).
I'm deeply sorry I spent so much money on a system that will never deliver an experience that is better than driving the car yourself.
I believe those "suicide" lanes can be used in CA to expedite left turns. If not, I do it anyhow when necessary.
It can’t do auto park forward. There’s no cameras to tell it when to stop so that’s why it has to back in.
Tesla gave me a 30 day trial (v12.3.3). Given the current quality, I wouldn’t pay more than $2-3k for the current quality of FSD. The real test for me is, if it can drive more safely than my 80yo mother, never mind an average driver. As a software dev, I’m guessing we’re still 5-10 years out until we reach that point.
Easy way to know if on the V12 or V11 stack. Look at Speed to tell. Max XX is V11 and Auto is V12.
Back-in parking is superior because when it is time for your next trip, off you go!
What if you want to put groceries in the trunk? Straight-in parking is superior. But FSD cannot handle that, for some unknown reason.
Good tests. Could you try as an experiment to swap the two cameras? because the iphone has really good quality and the action camera is... differently abled :)
I think the difference in image quality will really lift your videos. Forward cameras are probably the best. Maybe click the outside so it knows to expose by that.
Many states require you to be in the right lane on the highway. Does Georgia have that law?
Funny i hear it drives slow from others, my drivers have consistently been over the speed limit
if you expect FSD to drive like you, you’re gonna have a long wait
But the fanboys are saying "FSD is better than a human" LOL
@@DerekDavis213 Humans are shit drivers typically so that isn't contradictory.
@Dolemite23554 A robotaxy will first need government approval.
And if the regulators drive Tesla with FSD themselves, for a few weeks, they will see the truth. Robotaxy will *not* *be* *approved* .
It's a turn lane, not an on-ramp. The turn lane only got the name "suicide lane" because people continue to use it as an on-ramp.
Did anyone else who does FSD monthly not get credit for April FSD V12.3.3? Seems like my email said this would be a free month using V12.3.3… Thanks!!
Thank you John. Don't forget to get the milk 😂 let's wait for the next version.
I really struggle with the idea that the car 'should' exceed the speed limit if that's what you the locals do. Breaking the law is breaking the law, regardless of what the locals do.
I find it interesting that your legally not supposed to go into the suicide lane like that in Georgia. I was taught in drivers ed 20 some odd years ago to pull into it, and if you can't immediately get over, to slow down until you can here in Utah.
I have 12.3.3 and even regular left turns are sketchy in some case. This morning turning left on a single lane road, it pulled out and stopped in front of an oncoming car on the left side. I had to quickly try to back up. Hesitation was the main issue and is the main issue in many cases.
100% agree
Tesla RUclipsr Gjeebs said his wife pulled into a suicide lane to merge and had an accident. She was cited with illegal lane usage and at fault for pulling into the lane.
The big problem is that Tesla hasn't figured out that it needs to have map data involved. Intersections are not all the same. Some are quite different from the norm. The software should have a good idea of the layout of intersections as well as what the sensors are showing. This is called map data. There is no way that this is level 3. Not close. It is a good 2 at best. But Tesla must have map data to help it with city driving. It should also know where construction is. It should never do anything illegal. NEVER!! People have the wrong idea just what self-driving needs to do and NOT DO!!
If we don’t disengage where the software does something that should be reported because of the focus on zero-disengagements how would Tesla get that information? I’ve started disengaging for actions like speeding, missing opportunities or being too slow entering traffic and so on. If we don’t report all the not so perfect actions of FSD Supervised Tesla is getting a false representation of how V12.x is actually performing. They can’t fix what they don’t know about.
Personally, had I not pre-purchased FSD, I’m not so sure I would be prepared to spend $135 (CDN) per month based on my experiences with it. The vast majority of my drives are less than 10 kms and I almost never have a drive without disengagements.
I do wonder if some of the apparent hesitance wrt decisions may be directly related to the compute speed of the local hardware. Personally, I am pleased that the current release errs on the side of caution rather than the gung-ho attitude of petrol-heads or teenagers wanting a thrill.
Exactly how much time, 'proportionally', did you lose because of the nannie nature of current release?
Thank you for the video showing us what we all want to know.
the anyway counter reaches a new all time high.
Please increase the camera quality, you almost have 100k subs!
Does anybody talk about FSD braking into a red traffic lights? It's pretty harsh and doesn't lift soon enough. And is FSD actually using the brakes and not ReGen??
_And is FSD actually using the brakes and not ReGen??_
I don't know where this idea came from. No, it's still using regen for pretty much all braking; you can confirm this for yourself by watching the energy line near the top left corner of the display extend to the left during braking, indicating the amount of regen power.
My FSD has used the actual brakes to stop in time a few times. It's pretty easy to tell because you can watch the brake pedal. It generally uses regen braking but it will apply brakes when needed for emergencies or red lights.
@@kyleb8117 _it will apply brakes when needed for emergencies or red lights._
Yes, I agree-which is why I qualified is as *"pretty much* all braking".
@Big_Ben_from_La_Mesa Sorry, I probably should've clarified I was responding to the original post.
@@BigBen621 I do see the green bar for regen. It just feels like it is braking a lot with how jerky it is. Does it wait til the last second to brake for red lights for everybody else? I know my eyes can see further down the road, so I would start to lift to make a nice smooth stop. Where fsd isn't lifting. Small con, as this seems easily fixed.
On on HW3, so maybe HW4 better cameras work better at stopping smoother
Good to know you have a traffic engineering degree.
Nice presentation
The way FSD currently stops at Stop signs is super annoying to me. It should stop closer to the intersection unless there is a marked pedestrian path. I pull my hair out each time I use it, and I'm a Tesla bull too. 😡
Could you change the cameras so that your phone is the one pointing forwards and the "gopro" points at your face? Currently the camera you have pointing forwards is absolute trash
Why don't you supervise it more. Lol. You can change lanes or press accelerate more to get tesla to remember what to do when it finds itself in similar scenarios. That gives the AI the data it needs and helps fsd improve right...?
Lol…the solid line means don’t cross….you once again want the car to break the law like you do…..love ya but please let the car drive all the time for everyone’s sake. Definitely a back seat driver
_the solid line means don’t cross_
That likely varies by state. In California, crossing a solid white line is not prohibited.
@@BigBen621 in this case there is a dashed line that lets in traffic. Driven it many times. The folks that cross early and pass on the right are a danger to the people following the law. You should never program the car to be an aggressive driver. Assertive is fine but this isn't the scenario on this ramp. Notice how the car performed perfectly by following the road rules.
@@allieflounder5764 I don't disagree-just pointing out that crossing a solid white line *by itself* is not necessarily against the law, as you implied.
No u-turn?
Chuck had major regressions on his turn as well with this update, so it's clearly a serious issue. It also illustrates an issue with remote updates. If something is working properly and it is somewhat taken for granted, then It changes and the driver isn't aware, that will cause major issues. The practicalities of this becoming a true FSD are more than daunting.
I reckon that you flogged your car with a bush when the video ended
Please fix the rattling mic in your car.
Chuck Cook also found that this version was inferior for all the things he regularly tests.
I wonder if the suicide lane legality is a state law there. Most laws on the books aren't enforced -- they just exist to help judges make rulings if a related accident goes to trial.
looks good ...
Objectively, if the tires don’t scrub the curb, it doesn’t matter how close the system got them to the curb.
Missing scraping by a millimeter is more than sufficient for correctness, however nerve-wracking it is.
That’s how I drive at times: no harm, no foul.
Of course, the problem here is you’re a spectator watching your car appear to be headed towards expensive consequences.
I have no dog in this race, nowhere near buying an EV or any vehicle with anything approaching full self-drive.
I’d be far more concerned with the hesitations noted, by far, because he who hesitates is roadkill.
Culture driving awarfevess…. If culture is tailgating…shoulld you tailgate?
The car knows better
Slow to turn? I press the accelerator to tell FSD is safe, and it goes. What's wrong w helping? I'm helping when I press the turn signal when I want the slow lane or an early set up for a turn. I help when I turn the right thumb wheel to change my speed. I like to drive a little.
2022 Model Y: 3.4 has been a regression from 3.3 for me. Auto-speed is useless on my rural roads?! I guess due to few speed limit signs, improper speed limit map data, lack of follow traffic, etc. I have some navigation regression…actual missed a simple turn that was mapped…first time in 5-6 years 🤷♂️ I experience some harsh braking and excessive acceleration. Perfectly smooth driving normally; generally the v12.x series has been much better than previous versions, but not close to robo-taxi ready.
Nope, fsd must stick to the speed limits. If you don't like that, take it up with the relevant authorities, and have the legal speed limit increased. Strict adherence to speed limits will become essential when Tesla accepts full legal responsibility on level 4 and 5
yes you can pull into the "suicide lane"....at least in colorado
It's good that you were in a rush for this test. Makes your reactions more strict. Higher standards. Good info.
Using FSD is making my wife very nervous...
I have a hard time believing they are training it on examples where it stops well before the line at a stopsign. This is the most infuriating behavior
12.3.4 is an absolute shyt show with lane behavior. It’s wildly swinging all over the damn place when switching lanes and anchors too much to the side. Regression for sure.
That cannot be true. Tesla said
1. they are no longer compute constrained
2. neural nets will figure everything out
😄
@@DerekDavis213 they are clearly compute constrained or everything would be solved already. I have plenty of zero-intervention drives from central Houston to north Texas, but there is definitely something iffy about this version. They will solve it as major progress has been made, but they gotta start nailing this down.
I was being sarcastic. After 4 years in beta, and many v12 point releases, FSD is still full of flaws and bugs, requiring many interventions.
I drive every day for 10 years without an accident. I can drive in any city in America, even if I've never been there before. FSD is nothing like a human driver!
@@DerekDavis213 yep we are great drivers. FAD is not experienced human level yet.
I noticed that I get fewer nags when wearing sun glasses than not.
You don't get nags for looking at the display when wearing sunglasses, because the internal camera can't see your eyes. But I haven't noticed any reduction in nags for steering wheel torque when wearing sunglasses.
Doesn't exceeding the speed limits mean you're breaking the law? Why do you want the car to break the law? Speeding causes accidents let the car follow the rules.
I like to brake and accelerate more smoothly than FSD. And I like to optimize speed to avoid red lights. FSD like teenager gunning up to speed quickly then waiting at light.
Wow, it' really scary watching your reviews.
Perhaps others will change from their bad culture driving habits if enough self driving cars demonstrate safer driving
Im dreaming …
I don't think they will but, so far, my FSD has not demonstrated safe driving. I'm a very safe driver and it annoys me on a regular basis by doing things like not stopping at correct spots, fluctuating its speed quite a lot, not properly yielding to people in merges or passing lanes, etc.
I love having it and it's an adventure to use but man does it annoy/stress me out to the point of disengaging it in any high-stress situation.
It was a bit painful to watch this video, seeing that tesla is so close to achieve FSD yet it's so far.
Will always be like this.... So close... So far...
I think u are an agressove driver. I think u know this but u never tell us what settings u use. R u on chill or averge. If you are on the agressive setting then yeah I would agree with you but still, what is agressive to u might no be for others and the other was around.
Chill, average and agressive are subjective levels. So it is pointeless talking about it every time. You use the settings that is "close" to your driving style that is all you are every going to get. There will be a distribution around these settings that is all Tesla cares about, if it is good enough for you, who cares, as long as it is good enough for most people.
You drive me crazy! What in hell makes you the best driver. I bet if I was driving you would be telling me how to drive. Does it get you from point a to point b? Did the car get in an accident? Were you safe the whole time? I have watched other FSD videos and they don't have nearly the problems you have. I can't watch you driving anymore. All your big problems with the car driving and your interventions don't prove anything.
Ironically John is one of the worse drivers I’ve seen on YT.