i'm at this point too. i haven't watched a single episode for the last 2 full seasons or any in the current one. i've watched maybe a grand total of 2 hours of this year's feeds. the game's evolution and production decisions have edged me out of being an active fan, and that's ok. the show gave me a lot of fun during it's honey hour years.
This is a pretty good take. RUclips can highlight the satisfying narratives making the show seem way more interesting, the reality of it can be a boring slog with very little satisfying results. The editing of the episodes can also be pretty bad.
Someone had to say it. Janelle and Rachel are endlessly quotable and beyond entertaining, but I wouldn't call either of them strategic or socially savy players
Fans love Rach bc of her entertainment and character not because of her social or strategic game. It makes it hard for me to call her overrated bc of that. Seems properly rated. She's iconic in a different way than Dan or Will...
I don't think anyone really says anything to the contrary :D People think they're iconic bc of their personalities and because they kick ass in challenges, not because they're great strategists :D
@@4Tom4lepus4 :D It's so obvious who did and didn't watch the early seasons live. I did, and I read the blow-by-blow accounts people wrote of the live feeds. It's popular to hate Janelle and call her overrated, but she was more than a comp beast. :D Contrary to superfan Ethan's limited view (he didn't even know Ivette called Kaysar a sand n-word until AFTER he criticized him in a video and people set him straight) :D Janelle's social game was on point and she was a clever strategist. She made one -- yes, ONE -- terrible mistake, just like Kaysar made one terrible mistake, and those mistakes cost them. :D Never mind that the Fiendship was basically a cult and the women hated Janelle from Day 1 because she was beautiful. In that regard, it's not unlike what happened to Taylor in BB24. Janelle just didn't gaf and laughed at their attempts to bully her. She came in third that season and it wasn't solely due to comps. I could go on, but :D I think I've made my point.
@@4Tom4lepus4 Oh, and I agree about Rachel. You might not be aware of this, but BB isn't really a game show, as far as the law is concerned. The FCC said so in a 2008 response to complaints of production interference in S8. The agency puts the show in the same category as WWE. I'd quote it, but I don't think you care that much.
Here's the thing--I remember beginning of S7, Janelle tried to learn how to play a social game, but she was played by Dr. Will (whose entire game was social-based) and Mike Boogie (who used the nastiest showmance ever to get his win). Sometimes being a comp king/queen is a curse, because it puts a target on one's back and forces them to keep winning comps. It's worth noting that Janelle ended up in 3rd place in back-to-back seasons because she lost both final 3 HoH's. And then the winners of the final 3 HoH's ended up picking the other player (who won both times). Ivette lost to Maggie (when she would have beaten Janelle due to Howie's mess-up earlier in the season) and Erika lost to Boogie (Erika v. Janelle would have been a toss-up, but against Boogie, it was a no-brainer as Boogie showmanced and played Erika all game long). What was crazy is that both Ivette and Erika thought that they had won their seasons by evicting Janelle. Btw, even though the fans preferred the Sovereign Six in season 6, the editors clearly tried to make them look like the villains.
Many of my favorite players of all time are on this list and I think that’s great. I love that Big Brother isn’t a game in a vacuum and imperfect players win or go really far all the time. I would take an underdog Ian-type over a Derrick-type steamroll any day. Yes, great strategy can be fun to watch too but I can’t deny how much I like chaos and luck being on the side of rootable players that otherwise would be out. I also really enjoyed this video, Ethan! It made me reflect a lot on past players. Thanks for posting!
I still think that one of the funniest things about Rachel vs. Kristen was that Hayden thought "And you are because you have a chemistry degree" was a good comeback
I started watching Big Brother from season 9 and later went back to watch seasons 2-8. I was aware of Evel Dick because he’d be talked about during later seasons. Since I knew he won, I assumed he was some diabolical genius who was not well liked but made up for it with his strategic game (like a more aggressive Vanessa, or Russell Hantz with more win equity). When I finally got around to watching BB8, I was so disappointed to see how he actually won
same. I started watching during covid and got hooked. Season 8 was one of the last seasons and i was excited to see how good Evel was with his trash talk on social media and him being brought in later seasons as this douche genius. Guy ended up being really bad at the game and was carried by americas vote.
Evil Dick actually used to follow me on Twitter. He would respond to my tweets about Big Brother until 1 day I tweeted that I had watched Cody and Derricks podcast and enjoyed it and then he blocked me. Guess he really hates them.
Whats interesting is that all 5 of the players on the list had either a twist and/or certain people around them that either saved their game or took some bullets for them - Ian had to be saved by Boogie, then by the Pandoras Box Veto and then lastly by Dan (which granted was more Ian getting saved by coincedence) when he evicted Shane - Rachel had Brandon take enough bullets for her that he could look like swiss cheese, then the Pandoras Box and following Veto seeming almost rigged in Rachels favor only for Jordan to stick around so she could take another bullet for Rachel at the end - the Donatos game was literally depending on both of them making it to the end together and without the Americas player twist, Dick would have been booted without problems with Danni following shortly after or being kept as an easy final 2 win - Michie would have been a fish out of water if it wasnt for Holly staying loyal to him, without having her win HOH when he couldnt, Michie would have been out at the first backdoor chance, and Camp Comeback was just a safety net for his early game - Janelles biggest asset in 3 of her 4 times playing was Kaysar being there to take the fall first, and in the other game she was kept safe by the coaches twist
@@Jack-xq1eq with how the twist turned out and 3 of the 4 coaches being ready to enter the game, the coaches were probably always intended to enter the game so the 4 of them were basically playing with full immunity until they "officially" entered the game
not really, in all stars Kaysar only took the fall first because Janelle won the veto ( which she was the target ). And in BB22 Janelle left before Kaysar, so Kaysar really only served as a shield in BB6
Ian being saved by Dan was only happening because Ian proved his loyalty to Dan time and time again, which is a compliment to his game. Michie having Holly or Rachel having Brendan isn’t a knock to their games if anything it’s a compliment to it that they were able to build a tight bond with someone they didn’t know. And if you watch the show long enough people usually back out of big moves the more they think about it, nobody knows for sure if Nick would’ve targeted michie, or even if he did if michie would’ve left.
Rachel is by far the worst player to have won the game, but I'm more than happy that someone like her is among the winner's pantheon. One of the best TV characters ever.
I feel as if Davonne has to be one of the most overrated players too. She’s played in 3 seasons and has never even sniffed the late game and yet people romanticized the way she played as if she’s made at least a final 3
Somebody had to say this: I agreed with all of these the minute I saw them with the exception of Michie, not because I like him, but because I haven’t thought about him since that season, and I don’t feel the need to rewatch that season, but maybe I should.
Honestly, I would say that Michie is the person that made many people realize that winning competitions when you would otherwise get evicted does not make you a great gameplayer.
@@scottc2076 winning comps is fine, it's NEEDING to win comps that changes everything. Big Brother is a SOCIAL game, first. the competitions that come afterward shouldn't be your lifeline the majority of your time there if you're playing the game properly.
@@Dracon350 except comps is an aspect of being a good big brother player. It is only possible to “win out” from the final 7 onwards. To get to final 7 you can’t only rely on camps. Big brother is not a pure social game, it is social, strategy, and comps. If you want a pure social game watch the traitors. Ian is a great example of someone who won the game without having an amazing social game, but since Ian was amazing at strategy and comps he was able to win. In a pure social game he never wins.
@@scottc2076 i never stated it was a pure social game, i said that it was a social game FIRST, meaning that that's the biggest aspect of the game. winning comps and having elaborate strategies are apart of BB, but neither of those matter if you can't form connections with people. i agreed that winning comps is fine, and it is a sign you're not just a floater, but your entire game SHOULD NOT be do or die. that's the point i was trying to make. not winning doesn't even necessarily make you a bad player, either. Dr. Will, for example, didn't win a single HoH his entire time on the show, and yet he won a season and came in 4th during All Stars. in the end, BB is a game dominated by the social aspect, with the comps there to help spice things up to keep it from just being a popularity contest.
I'm conflicted about this. I get what you're saying about how these players were all constantly in jeopardy but at the same time I think winning comps when you need to is a huge factor in being a great player
I disagree as big brother is a social game where having your social capital in jeopardy by needing a comp is showing poor gameplay. Comps play a big part in the game but a lot of people including myself measure the social and strategic element of the game more than guessing how many gallons a big tea cup holds.
I agree. I get you don't want to rely on wins but being able to win comps is a win condition for most winners. This recap is a bit harsh on those folks.
@@waruv Depends, because there have been good winners that were solid in comps, but didn't need to rely on them for safety, like Hayden or Kaycee, because while they won when they needed to, they also would've been good even if the comp streaks hadn't been there, since they both were covered pretty well socially and were never the primary targets of the HOH on their respective seasons. Definitely different than someone like Rachel or Michie, who needed those comp wins to survive, because their social game was lacking so much that they wouldn't have had the protection even without those wins
@@NYChica23 totally. Ideally you don’t want to be in “win or out” scenarios, but the ability of even a Kaycee or Hayden to win challenges facilitated their wins a ton by shaping who was there, positioning evictions, etc. Hayden’s HoHs in particular were all essential to his win imo.
@@sixredfish6115 Comps aren't a big deal unless your name is Janelle (one of my all-time favorite players, though I haven't bothered with later seasons) or someone else who isn't conventionally attractive and popular. You people are gross.
Agree with all of these except Janelle. She was targeted immediately in bb6 due to jealousy and also bc james told ivette day 1 that janelle was going after her (which was a lie). In bb7 the season 5 HGs pregamed with her as the main target which is why the bb6 alliance spent the first month of the game picking them off one by one. As for BB14 that was Boogie's doing. Ian was on a podcast where he said that had Dan kept Janelle in the game, he could have easily won in the end bc they probably would've teamed up. It's understandable why she's considered overrated but i feel like she was always dealt shitty cards and had to deal with insecure people.
This is so well said. In bb22 Janelle was also targeted due to jealousy from Dani, Nicole f, and Cody. Janelle had great social relationships with most of the other hg like Keesha, bay, Davonne, Kaysar of course, Nicole A, Memphis and even Tyler
The only part of this assessment that I don't agree with is all the people dismissed because they had to win a lot of competitions. I would measure social vs comp as 50/50 for an ideal winner. Edit: Thinking about it, I think your list is right, but maybe phrasing your points more as defining what makes a good player overall first, and then discussing how these players all only fullfil 1 of 2 criteria (they all are good comp players but not good social players) would be a bit more effective of a framework. That being said, i enjoyed this video. Id also like to see a version of this focusing on players who had great social games but are overrated because they didnt win any comps.
You should do an underrated big brother list. And if you want an idea on who to add I would say Michelle from big brother 11. Your video yesterday reminded me of her game play and I never hear about her on any big brother content.
OK here is my take : having to win every competition to be able to stay in the game because you have such a bad social game is technically a strategy, and i respect that strategy as it is very difficult. A lot of us fans who hyper analyze the show are interested in watching more interesting strategies that involve deception and social manipulation and we are less likely to be satisfied by season where one of these types of winners wins but I share a lot of the sentiments you have in this video and for me I think it’s because I just don’t find their games as interesting to watch. that being said, I completely agree that evil dick is overrated 😅
Ian has owned that he thought he did well but that he was not in the list of the best of the best players. He admitted his game would have gone vastly different in bb14 with boogie and Dan. Boogie taught him a lot of the social aspects of the game and what he was doing that was making people uncomfortable around him. And in the later stages Dan reminded him alot to never let people’s personal attacks get to him and to remember it was just a game and it’s not the real world. Which it kept his head on straight forsure
Really interesting video topic and solid points all around! With Rachel specifically - I was never a fan growing up, and on rewatches I have come to respect her win more than I used to when it aired, but I've always thought as a gamer/strategist people hyped her up more than I ever saw exhibited. However, I also would really love to see her again. Listening to her in interviews and watching her on The Traitors, sure she's still firey/gets in fights, but I think she's matured a lot and gained a stronger strategic grasp. I would be so interested to see her play BB again at this stage in her life.
“Nick said he would have targeted Jack and Jackson if not for camp comeback” lmaooooo that is such revisionist history. Nick was 100% duped by them and thought he was ~one of the boys hence why he completely ratted out Nicole and targeted her when she tried telling him that the boys were after him
Janelle played to her strengths, showed loyalty and never kissed ass to anyone she didn't like. And her comp wins is what makes her ELITE. All the big returnees have been targeted, and 1 slip up costs you. She made it to final 3 on 6 and 7 with a target. Her most recent 2 appearances taint her reputation, but she just couldn't hold up with the physicality of the players on 14 and 21. That being said, she is an amazing competitior. Plus on 6 she almost got April against Ivette in final 4. Thats good social game. And she evicted the best player, Will. He vendetta stemed from her threat level and some jealous by other female cast members.
as a huge ian fan, i totally understand what you mean. a lot of my appreciation for ian - game wise - comes from the fact that he was a clutch competitor, but i also hold a lot of respect for him due to some snide comments and exclusion he’s faced in the house. him being unliked in week one of bb14 and managing to reposition himself in the house made me respect him, but his kindness to fellow houseguests that were blatantly rude to him about his autism in bb22 made me respect him even more. i think that, in a game of manipulation and lying, he still managed to give off the persona of someone who valued honesty and staying true to his values.
He won a season where Boogie Frank Janelle Dan and Britney where on, i cannot seriously agree on calling that overrated, that was a shark infested ocean and he won against the big one in final 2, if Dan is "The Best" and Ian defeated "The Best" what does that make Ian...
Boogie basically didn’t want to play the game, Janelle was immediately backdoored the second she entered the game proper and gets taken out by Dan if he isn’t able to clutch out comps that test a serious variety of skills
@@AliFrankTheTank Exactly. He's a small, awkward guy on the spectrum who doesn't fit the image of a winner to people who idolize handsome and charming sociopaths.
The only one I disagree with is Ian. Dan admitted he is smart and a very dangerous player and it worried Dan. If you worry the best BB player of all-time, you got to have a pretty good game. Plus, when he was in danger he always saved himself while the pressure was high. Love your videos.
@@ohwowwewoo1842 idk, Frank was worse off than Ian when it came to having to win comps. As I remember, a lot of people thought Frank was a great player that season.
Ian is overrated but Ethanimale underrates him. He’s not #19/24 like Ethanimale says or top 10 like people say he’s a lower mid tier winner so maybe about #15
Have two possible video ideas. Canadian winners ranked (especially want to see how you rank Kevin and Haleena, easily the best Canadian alliance ever formed) and the other is ranking the runner ups. Rewatched your video of players we got wrong and about Big D. Would love to hear you thoughts on all this stuff. Either way, enjoy the content a lot. I am a big brother fan that I created a playable version for family and friends lol
unpopular opinion: if daniele could’ve articulated herself in big brother 8, she could have beat dick. her resume was much more impressive through the game, not to mention tying a record, that’s very hard to do while lying under the radar.
Seems like these players having volatile games that required them to win a lot of competitions to stay safe is what made them so legendary in the first place. Their games are memorable and wild and flashy, but not necessarily good from a strategic standpoint, which makes them special because they made it to the end in spite of the odds rather than having the odds in their favor the whole time because they played a great but less memorable game that didn't leave them in danger at all.
why penalize Janelle for clutching competitions, that’s part of the game. You get ahead by socializing or winning competitions, she was winning and it got her to the final 3 twice! If anything it makes her one of the best players to have played with a competitive strategy
To be honest, I don't think Ethanimale articulated his argument on Janelle's gameplay very well. You see, Janelle's competiton skills aren't what make her a questionable player. Her issue is that she frequently puts herself in a position to where she HAS to clutch competitons in order to stay in the game. Winning competitions is such an inconsistent and unrealistic strategy. You can't expect any human being to just win every single comp. Whenever Janelle COULDN'T clutch out a competition, she was never able to save herself from eviction. Janelle's sharp tongue made a lot of enemies in the house. The real reason why many people don't respect Janelle's gameplay is that so many of her houseguests would happily evict her once she wasn't safe.
@@DVal-bl7hm That's absurd. Janelle is up against some fierce competition and strong alliances. Were you alive when BB6 aired? Ethan wasn't, so he's mostly clueless about what BB6 was really like. He didn't even know Ivette called Kaysar a sand n-word. He idiotically criticized Kaysar for his reaction and had to be told what happened. The Friendship just picked everyone off and Janelle still nearly beat them. He didn't -- and you didn't -- articulate your reasons for calling Janelle overrated because she isn't.
I think it’s hard to say if Ian is great or not because the best part of his strategy only really works the first time around. It’s really hard to be the underdog twice.
Risky video, but I like it. And I think you explained your reasonings fairly well. However, I challenge you with an even risker video idea that's in the same vein as this. Top 5 Overrated FAN FAVORITES! Not to say they had to win America's favorite overall, but this would have to be a more subjective list of players who a lot of people like, but you don't. And no, you don't *have* to do this, I just feel this'd be an interesting direction to go in.
Listen I’m not trying to die in these BB streets, so idk about that one. For real though, that would be an interesting and “scary” video to make, all depending on the approach. If it’s talking about like overall fan favorites, that would be easy as I could just choose the players that won AFP that are generally disliked (Jeff, Frank, Cody). The harder route would obviously be leaving those easy players off the list and instead going for more modern beloved figures, which would be hard! Im having trouble thinking of any off the top of my head, plus tbh I don’t love the idea of delving into reasons why I don’t like people that are generally likable, as it’s kinda mean and unnecessary. The REAL spicy video idea would be 5 hated houseguests that I secretly like. That would be a hot take video, but also could have issues with the concerns I just mentioned before. That is also a video I would never make but it’s fun to speculate (although I don’t think any of my takes would be too egregious. If anything it’s likely to be filled with players that were “annoying but mostly harmless”, and not anyone who’s actually a terrible person)
I’m not sure if “if they didn’t win veto” is a good excuse for labeling someone “lucky” and “overrated” though… I understand the Dick getting assisted from America’s player and Rachel with the pandora conspiracy and Ian with the few lives he had but Michie and Janelle just balled out and were better than the rest …
I think janelle’s game play would be seen as better, if she was a he. Janelle almost always was in the worst position, her having to win to stay shouldn’t be a detriment.
Great list and another great video. I am not sure that Michie is overrated. If anything I think he might be underrated given how much he is disliked. He was only targeted because he was dominating the game. His ability to come through with clutch comp wins was incredible to watch. He also played Holly, Cliff, and Nicole like a fiddle during the end game.
I agree... I think winning physical comps and keeping yourself safe is apart of the game and shouldn't count against someone. Taylor should be on this list if we start doing that.
He is overrated for a number of reasons. One of them is Holly is probably the only one in the Final 6 he even beats in a jury vote. I guess maybe Nicole, but she is iffy. Another is not being punished for eating as a Have Not. Another is needing so many comp wins to survive.
Time or poor quality of some later years can help some winners. I remember how polarizing Ian was during BB14. I think one of the players (was it Britney?) even said that a bottle of ketchup sitting beside Dan would have won. And she liked Ian. The negative response to a number of post-14 seasons and the perception that some later winners like Steve were just Ian clones (not fair - to me Steve had one of the hardest winner games) meant that Ian's reputation improved. Or more recently, people saying it's wrong to compare Ian to Cory and Ian was much better (even though Ian's strategic game in BB14 was about as uninformed as Cory's has become). I liked Ian and if anyone beat Dan I'm glad it was him (of the players left post-Britney), but his game outside of comps was not really there. I can't speak on BB22 as I have no interest in watching that season and I heard Ian was treated very poorly in the house. I'm just keeping my BB14 memories. Rachel is a player I never knew was highly regarded, especially after BB13, but I think she was smart to never return, letting people just remember the good times. I don't think Janelle returning ruined her image, as nothing she did in BB14 (or apparently BB22) was severely regarded, but neither season did her any favors. I never thought ED was good (if not for America he would have been out instead of Dustin), it was just an unlikeable cast and some people enjoyed seeing him go off on them. It fed into the fantasy that you don't have to play cautious on BB, you can just do whatever you want and win.
Agreed with all but Janelle. You make a fantastic argument, however, she was targeted constantly and managed to fight her way to final 3 twice. She was cut because they knew they couldn’t beat her due to the jury. She beats anyone sitting next to them both seasons.
Thank god somebody said about Rachel. 2nd worst winner in my opinion other than Josh. Rachel was a comp beast, but absolutely awful strategic big brother player. One of the worst social games of all time.
Im surprises you didnt include Jeff Shroeder on this video. I might have swapped out Janelle or Ian and included him because i think he has a worse resume and gets hero level worship from some fans. But generally id agree with this video. Ive thought Rachel and Dick were overrated and flat out annoying for years now
@@olivermensingeror just add Jeff period because while I love Janelle and Ian, the arguments made in this video are logical and understandable. Jackson I don't remember very well, I more remember how much I thought half the cast that seasons were annoying and forgettable except Nicole LOL
Speaking of Dick, something that'll always be funny to me is: Dick: Daniele's my daughter 😗 Joe: Ohhh! 😄✨👏👏 Dick: She hasn't spoken to me in 8 years. Joe: Ohh... 😶😬
I'm surprised you didn't put Paul on the list, because they're even more overrated than Janelle is. At least no one is constantly arguing that Janelle was robbed of a win, while I can't say the same for Paul, because not a day goes by when I don't see a post about how they should've beaten Nicole or Josh had it not been for bitter juries, while at the same time, those people ignore that the reason both juries Paul faced were completely bitter against them was because the jury management was just not there, and so the bitterness was a natural result of the way people got treated by Paul. Bottom line is that while it is possible to win BB without being a comp beast or the person who orchestrates all the moves, it's impossible to be a winner if your jury management is nonexistent, so that should tell you all about how much of a social game this truly is
This video is basically just “Who wouldn’t have done well if they hadn’t won competitions”. Part of the game is competitions. Winning them doesn’t make them bad players, it contributes to their gameplay.
I feel like you're underestimating Ian, despite not watching the show nor disagreeing he seems overrrated, he won when he needed, he did his best, he was smart, and manipulated enough to win, definitely above 19th on winners
@@PBGellie I don't, because if you have to rely on comp wins to get yourself out of tough situations, it means that the social/strategic parts of your game are lacking, since you don't have enough of a good relationship with people that they'll want to keep you around. Huge difference between a strong comp player like Michie, where his only options were win or be evicted, and a comp beast like Kaycee, who didn't need to exclusively rely on comp wins due to having enough of a good relationship with the non L6 side of the house that they would come for other members of that alliance before they'd set their sights on her
@@NYChica23 I see your point. And it's valid. You should aim to not having to be in these sorts of situations. But #2 most overrated because of it? Of all time? I'd say its impressive that he managed to pull these wins off. It's not great that he found himself in that situation, but he still pulled it off. Calling this more overrated than Dick and Rachel being pulled to the end with twists is just goofy.
It's always bothered me that Rachel's response to " you have no common sense " with her going " I won two HOHs " Like it's at all a metric for common sense
@@becbec7879 x also gets eliminated wayyy earlier without the black alliance. Tiffany would have kept Claire and Brittany over him anyday she just wasn’t playing for herself unfortunately
Genuine question for anyone who watched All Stars 2 the live feeds or the aired episodes. Do you think now that Janelle is older her social game would have been better? I'm not saying it is, but I can see some of her actions in her first two seasons being because she was younger. I don't remember Ian's season too well but I do think she was calmer in that one from what I do remember. I would rewatch big brother if i knew ways to do it in canada lol
My controversial opinion is that big brother itself is boring and that the RUclips content is more interesting… also haven’t managed to finish a single season
Maggie should also be on this list. Shes a mid tier winner but people act like shes elite. Dont get me wrong shes a good player but everything about her game is overrated. Shes not that good scoially as half the house hated her and she was always 1 comp away from being evicted. She gets benefited from circumstances such as getting spoonfed Cappy's minions and Kaysar coming back as if not Janelle evicts Maggie at the final 9. Maggie wouldnt do that well on many seasons either as shed be an easy target most of the cases. Shes not bad but shes overrated. Dan, Derrick, Cody, Will Hayden, Andy, Drew, Jun, Nicole F, Boogie, Xavier, Michie, Kaycee are all better winners. Danielle, Vanessa, Tyler, Paul, Eric, i could go on are better players. Maggie isnt a top 10 winner and she isnt even a top 25 player ever. Maggie is one of the most overrated Big Brother players ever
So why is Janelle hated? Did the people just want her to stand there and not win comps? Each player had the same opportunity to win those comps. And she did make social bonds with Howie and Kayser . She and Erika got Dr.Will out too that's impressive.
Janelle is not hated. Ethan may be a superfan but he wasn't even alive when BB6 aired. The Friendship remains one of the most toxic alliances in the history of BB. We loved Janelle. We loved Kaysar. I can't remember what their alliance was called [ETA: the Sovereign Six] but its were very popular (at least initially) because Cappy's Cult was so awful. Ivette called Kaysar a sand n-word in the live and production edited it out in a pathetic attempt to make her look less awful. It didn't work. Janelle was our last hope to win and she almost did. Janelle has never been hated. Ethan is just clueless.
I disagree. Ian has proved he can consistently reach the end game of buddy games and is never in danger during the early game. Plus he was on this show called big brother and he did alright there I guess
Omg yes! You posted it! I don’t know if I had any influence on this after saying you should do a video like this on your community polls, but regardless it’s still cool to see. I knew people would respect your opinion 😎 great video!
People aren’t gonna like this, but Taylor Hale definitely falls in this category. It’s okay to love someone for who they are, but people REALLY exaggerate her game play. She’s the most overrated winner of the modern era.
I completely agree. Her as a person is fine but her as a player was awful. She needed people to win comps for her in order to stay safe because she couldn’t and she had no strategy throughout the entire game. If Paloma didn’t quit I do think she would’ve been evicted first. I don’t think she deserved to win against Monte and I don’t respect her as a player. But before people do get mad I do like her as a person and I can respect her on a human level but game wise? No way.
Completely disagree, her social game was unmatched. It was so subtle people don't give her the credit. How do you go from most hated for weeks to the winner (and most liked) with absolutely no strategy at all? Rachel remained hated even when she won bc she had no social game at all.
One of the vetos he won he needed a random ass twist out of nowhere where there was a second veto and he needed to get save by Dan when he was vulernable due to no work he did.
If we are saying Janelle is overrated, than I'm gonna take a bullet and say BB 24's Taylor is overrated and only won because everyone else felt bad for her. Poor girl was bullied and harassed for the first few weeks and then when half the house came in to save her, they felt the need to protect her for the rest of the game and then vote for her to win. Turner helped make all of that happen AND managed to keep himself safe that whole time, he (IN MY MIND) was the more deserving winner, and I think Taylor is just a tad overrated from a gameplay perspective.
Your logic of good players not being good players because they would be evicted if they didn’t win comps is not good logic. They wouldn’t be targets if they weren’t good players…
Well if they had to win comps in order to stay in the game that isn’t very good social game, yet they’re hyped up to the max which makes them overrated.
Jordan was UNDERrated. I will always stick to that. No one paid her any attention any season and they thought she just was so sweet (she was nice but you know what I mean). She wins and gets close the next season she’s on to winning. That girl ain’t stupid like a lot think by any means…she knows people. Jordan absolutely deserved her win.
Amen! She definitely clutched in the final 3. Sure Jeff helped her along the way but she got herself to the final 2. I love the moment we're she goes off on Russell.
He admitted to cheating in comps. That being said, I agree with you. Winning comps when your safety is on the line is great gameplay. Superfans are weird.
@@olivermensinger having rewatched the season recently I strongly disagree, Eric was also in an alliance with Dick and part of what initially made the whole house dislike him was Eric making “weird” votes which were Americas votes and led to Dick forcing out Nick who was an ally for him
Janelle was to real to fake with players who hated her based on her looks. The fact that thru hard work she was voted out makes her one of the Best players ever. Period
Kinda agree except on Michie. He's completely underrated. Winning all of those comps and moving with his only ally to the correct side of the house, while being on the front seat during the whole game is a biiiiig achievement. Agree with many comments here. Taylor is immensely overrated. She goes out week 1 if Paloma doesn't have a meltdown and production decides to cancel the eviction.
I'm throwing Andy on that list, because it seems like too many people focus on what a dumpster fire season 15 was and really don't stop to pay attention to how strong of a winning game he actually had, despite purposely being invisible throughout most of the game. It's not easy to float and make alliances with practically the entire house without getting caught early on, but Andy managed to go until the very end of the game without ever being found out, which I find pretty darn impressive
Thinking about Janelle and wondering if her classic era gameplay would even give her the instant win in the modern era that it would have had she made it to final 2 in season 6 or 7. That got me thinking: You should create a fantasy cast of Classic vs Modern Big Brother. 8 and 8. Don’t even be realistic with who would or wouldn’t come back. Essentially create a cast that best represents all the different aspects of either the classic or modern era. The good and the bad.
Think about who she was up against in BB6 and you might get a clue. The Friendship would be toxic in ANY season. She won comps when the odds were completely against her and almost won the final HOH. That would be an achievement in any era.
Very well made video Ethan! Even though Rachel and Janelle are my personal fav players I do respect your opinion on them. I just can’t help but root for comp beasts/underdogs.
This may be the bravest video you’ve ever made haha! I’m not gonna disagree with your picks as you’re entitled to your opinion and you’ve rationalised your picks. My only issue in concept is undervaluing clutch wins. You said several times “X goes home if they don’t Y competition.” I don’t think you can win BB on comp wins alone, and there has to be some semblance of strategy. But it does still form a big part of the game and I think downplaying that to rank opinions on players isn’t really fair.
Great video, agree with all of these takes. I havent seen that much Ian love so wouldn't of called him overrated coming into this, but agree that he is a mediocre winner. I think I was in the camp of overrating Jackson before, but you brought up some great points that have made me reconsider that.
There's plenty of Ian love. The fact that you haven't seen it means nothing. Were you alive at the time his season aired? Then again, you can't even string a proper sentence together. It's would HAVE, not would OF.
Great list. Your best non winners bracket with holly made me reimagine Jackson’s game and also realize i overrated him until recently. I was really hoping to see carnage with you putting taylor on the list though. I guess based on responses in the same “best non winner poll” Janelle will be close enough haha
While big brother is billed as a darwinist social game where "smart players" try to make noone mad and who can lie through their teeth. Something does need to be said for the players that come in fiery and try to win it through sheer dominance of competitions. Competitions you know where the actual power lies up to the jury vote.
I never understood why people like Janelle. I watched season 6 of Big Brother, and I genuinely could not stand her she came across as superficial and self-absorbed. It’s hard to believe that she was a finalist, let alone a four-time All-Star.
Dumb luck is relavent to EVERY SINGLE BB WINNER EVER. I dont see how that is even added as an agrument to be on this list. especially Ian. (no hate dude)
It’s because constantly relied on it. W/o his other team members and his comp wins Ian is gone. We’re not saying Ian sucks, in fact he’s a great entertainer and lovely autistic representation, but he only won because of a) Boogie and B) the way Dan played the game. Nothing else. No manipulations, contrasting to Dan who KNEW his ass would be gone if he didn’t get “blood on his elbows”. And because of how pissed the jury was, (kudos to Ian for this) he still brought Dannto the end. What I’m trying to say is Ian isn’t responsible for 70-90% of evictions in that house nor did he really do that much; Ian needed a push to even vote Ashley and send her home, and after that there wasn’t really a game strategy to be held, here wasn’t really any “Hm, who would be a horrible person to be in my final 2/3/4…” he relied on Brittany and the Quack Pack too much. The point is, where “dumb luck” significantly outweighs actual strat, then we have every person on this screen. Additionally the fact that they were very popular AND were thought to be Dr Will/Dan/Cody level great, is also what got them on this list. The difference between someone like Dan and someone like Ian, is the amount of work output (manipulating, strategising, damage control) used in the game. Ian had like 5 comp wins; Dan had around 2. Both of them made it to the end, and funny enough, Ian was being targeted throughout the end at so many points, I don’t even think he realised this which shows how he also lacked social interaction skills (nonetheless, his situational skills was still alright)
I think jackson is very underrated tbh. I get Tommy had more social connections but wow for Jackson to get cliff and Nicole to keep holly over Tommy is so wild! Also combined with that fact that his closest ally was screwed over by having people she knew on the cast cuz production didn’t check insta.
Jackson is an easy pick for Ethanimale because no one likes him and he can say all he wants with him with no backlash. He should have included a player like Da'Vonne/Tiffany/Taylor, but he knew he'd get backlash. He's a coward.
@@becbec7879Why would he pick Tiffany? I could see a Taylor pick making sense (even though I love her) But Tiffany dominated BB23 and only lost because the cause mattered to her more than her own personal game did.
My controversial opinion is that I like Big Brother RUclips content more than the show itself...
It isn't controversial, it is the truth lmao
i'm at this point too. i haven't watched a single episode for the last 2 full seasons or any in the current one. i've watched maybe a grand total of 2 hours of this year's feeds.
the game's evolution and production decisions have edged me out of being an active fan, and that's ok. the show gave me a lot of fun during it's honey hour years.
Lmaoooo same!!!!
Big Brother is too childish now. It's lost its edge
This is a pretty good take. RUclips can highlight the satisfying narratives making the show seem way more interesting, the reality of it can be a boring slog with very little satisfying results. The editing of the episodes can also be pretty bad.
Someone had to say it. Janelle and Rachel are endlessly quotable and beyond entertaining, but I wouldn't call either of them strategic or socially savy players
Fans love Rach bc of her entertainment and character not because of her social or strategic game. It makes it hard for me to call her overrated bc of that. Seems properly rated. She's iconic in a different way than Dan or Will...
I don't think anyone really says anything to the contrary :D People think they're iconic bc of their personalities and because they kick ass in challenges, not because they're great strategists :D
@@4Tom4lepus4 :D It's so obvious who did and didn't watch the early seasons live. I did, and I read the blow-by-blow accounts people wrote of the live feeds. It's popular to hate Janelle and call her overrated, but she was more than a comp beast. :D Contrary to superfan Ethan's limited view (he didn't even know Ivette called Kaysar a sand n-word until AFTER he criticized him in a video and people set him straight) :D Janelle's social game was on point and she was a clever strategist. She made one -- yes, ONE -- terrible mistake, just like Kaysar made one terrible mistake, and those mistakes cost them. :D Never mind that the Fiendship was basically a cult and the women hated Janelle from Day 1 because she was beautiful. In that regard, it's not unlike what happened to Taylor in BB24. Janelle just didn't gaf and laughed at their attempts to bully her. She came in third that season and it wasn't solely due to comps. I could go on, but :D I think I've made my point.
@@4Tom4lepus4 Oh, and I agree about Rachel. You might not be aware of this, but BB isn't really a game show, as far as the law is concerned. The FCC said so in a 2008 response to complaints of production interference in S8. The agency puts the show in the same category as WWE. I'd quote it, but I don't think you care that much.
Here's the thing--I remember beginning of S7, Janelle tried to learn how to play a social game, but she was played by Dr. Will (whose entire game was social-based) and Mike Boogie (who used the nastiest showmance ever to get his win). Sometimes being a comp king/queen is a curse, because it puts a target on one's back and forces them to keep winning comps. It's worth noting that Janelle ended up in 3rd place in back-to-back seasons because she lost both final 3 HoH's. And then the winners of the final 3 HoH's ended up picking the other player (who won both times). Ivette lost to Maggie (when she would have beaten Janelle due to Howie's mess-up earlier in the season) and Erika lost to Boogie (Erika v. Janelle would have been a toss-up, but against Boogie, it was a no-brainer as Boogie showmanced and played Erika all game long). What was crazy is that both Ivette and Erika thought that they had won their seasons by evicting Janelle. Btw, even though the fans preferred the Sovereign Six in season 6, the editors clearly tried to make them look like the villains.
Many of my favorite players of all time are on this list and I think that’s great. I love that Big Brother isn’t a game in a vacuum and imperfect players win or go really far all the time. I would take an underdog Ian-type over a Derrick-type steamroll any day. Yes, great strategy can be fun to watch too but I can’t deny how much I like chaos and luck being on the side of rootable players that otherwise would be out.
I also really enjoyed this video, Ethan! It made me reflect a lot on past players. Thanks for posting!
I really enjoyed this insightful comment, thank you!
One of the truest comments, I think that’s why this season of Big Brother is pretty good because of no one is playing an over-the-top game.
I still think that one of the funniest things about Rachel vs. Kristen was that Hayden thought "And you are because you have a chemistry degree" was a good comeback
ngl I always thought it was a pretty good comeback
Especially since Rachel has no idea what a floater really is.
@@olivermensinger ya she has a VERY wide definition or what a floater is
@@Ethanimaleyou hate rachel lol
the meat of that comeback was "string together a sentence without using the word 'like'".
I started watching Big Brother from season 9 and later went back to watch seasons 2-8. I was aware of Evel Dick because he’d be talked about during later seasons. Since I knew he won, I assumed he was some diabolical genius who was not well liked but made up for it with his strategic game (like a more aggressive Vanessa, or Russell Hantz with more win equity).
When I finally got around to watching BB8, I was so disappointed to see how he actually won
I wish that was his game lol
Honestly I love him because he goes yeah I'm a evil dick hints my name he doesn't try act nice or fake and hides it he shows it out right
same. I started watching during covid and got hooked. Season 8 was one of the last seasons and i was excited to see how good Evel was with his trash talk on social media and him being brought in later seasons as this douche genius. Guy ended up being really bad at the game and was carried by americas vote.
Is Ian overrated? Yes. Is he 19th? No way 😭
[Ethanimale has been blocked by Evel Dick]
Hasn't happened yet... patiently waiting
Rachel and Dick definitely stick out, because their wins were RIGGED
Evil Dick actually used to follow me on Twitter. He would respond to my tweets about Big Brother until 1 day I tweeted that I had watched Cody and Derricks podcast and enjoyed it and then he blocked me. Guess he really hates them.
Whats interesting is that all 5 of the players on the list had either a twist and/or certain people around them that either saved their game or took some bullets for them
- Ian had to be saved by Boogie, then by the Pandoras Box Veto and then lastly by Dan (which granted was more Ian getting saved by coincedence) when he evicted Shane
- Rachel had Brandon take enough bullets for her that he could look like swiss cheese, then the Pandoras Box and following Veto seeming almost rigged in Rachels favor only for Jordan to stick around so she could take another bullet for Rachel at the end
- the Donatos game was literally depending on both of them making it to the end together and without the Americas player twist, Dick would have been booted without problems with Danni following shortly after or being kept as an easy final 2 win
- Michie would have been a fish out of water if it wasnt for Holly staying loyal to him, without having her win HOH when he couldnt, Michie would have been out at the first backdoor chance, and Camp Comeback was just a safety net for his early game
- Janelles biggest asset in 3 of her 4 times playing was Kaysar being there to take the fall first, and in the other game she was kept safe by the coaches twist
the coaches twist was basically just a reset by the time she was in and she gone really fast after so that doesn't really do anything for her at all
@@Jack-xq1eq with how the twist turned out and 3 of the 4 coaches being ready to enter the game, the coaches were probably always intended to enter the game so the 4 of them were basically playing with full immunity until they "officially" entered the game
not really, in all stars Kaysar only took the fall first because Janelle won the veto ( which she was the target ). And in BB22 Janelle left before Kaysar, so Kaysar really only served as a shield in BB6
She had Ashlea for like a week
Ian being saved by Dan was only happening because Ian proved his loyalty to Dan time and time again, which is a compliment to his game.
Michie having Holly or Rachel having Brendan isn’t a knock to their games if anything it’s a compliment to it that they were able to build a tight bond with someone they didn’t know. And if you watch the show long enough people usually back out of big moves the more they think about it, nobody knows for sure if Nick would’ve targeted michie, or even if he did if michie would’ve left.
Rachel is by far the worst player to have won the game, but I'm more than happy that someone like her is among the winner's pantheon. One of the best TV characters ever.
Don't get between her and her man lmao 🤣 my favorite thing about her was her goodbye messages to the people getting evicted.
I feel as if Davonne has to be one of the most overrated players too. She’s played in 3 seasons and has never even sniffed the late game and yet people romanticized the way she played as if she’s made at least a final 3
it’s not the way she played it’s mainly bc she’s an icon
Somebody had to say this: I agreed with all of these the minute I saw them with the exception of Michie, not because I like him, but because I haven’t thought about him since that season, and I don’t feel the need to rewatch that season, but maybe I should.
Honestly, I would say that Michie is the person that made many people realize that winning competitions when you would otherwise get evicted does not make you a great gameplayer.
@@DVal-bl7hmwinning comps is an aspect of being a good player. Cody is considered a top 5 winner but he needed to win comps to win.
@@scottc2076 winning comps is fine, it's NEEDING to win comps that changes everything. Big Brother is a SOCIAL game, first. the competitions that come afterward shouldn't be your lifeline the majority of your time there if you're playing the game properly.
@@Dracon350 except comps is an aspect of being a good big brother player. It is only possible to “win out” from the final 7 onwards. To get to final 7 you can’t only rely on camps. Big brother is not a pure social game, it is social, strategy, and comps. If you want a pure social game watch the traitors. Ian is a great example of someone who won the game without having an amazing social game, but since Ian was amazing at strategy and comps he was able to win. In a pure social game he never wins.
@@scottc2076 i never stated it was a pure social game, i said that it was a social game FIRST, meaning that that's the biggest aspect of the game. winning comps and having elaborate strategies are apart of BB, but neither of those matter if you can't form connections with people.
i agreed that winning comps is fine, and it is a sign you're not just a floater, but your entire game SHOULD NOT be do or die. that's the point i was trying to make. not winning doesn't even necessarily make you a bad player, either. Dr. Will, for example, didn't win a single HoH his entire time on the show, and yet he won a season and came in 4th during All Stars.
in the end, BB is a game dominated by the social aspect, with the comps there to help spice things up to keep it from just being a popularity contest.
I'm conflicted about this. I get what you're saying about how these players were all constantly in jeopardy but at the same time I think winning comps when you need to is a huge factor in being a great player
I disagree as big brother is a social game where having your social capital in jeopardy by needing a comp is showing poor gameplay. Comps play a big part in the game but a lot of people including myself measure the social and strategic element of the game more than guessing how many gallons a big tea cup holds.
I agree. I get you don't want to rely on wins but being able to win comps is a win condition for most winners. This recap is a bit harsh on those folks.
@@waruv Depends, because there have been good winners that were solid in comps, but didn't need to rely on them for safety, like Hayden or Kaycee, because while they won when they needed to, they also would've been good even if the comp streaks hadn't been there, since they both were covered pretty well socially and were never the primary targets of the HOH on their respective seasons. Definitely different than someone like Rachel or Michie, who needed those comp wins to survive, because their social game was lacking so much that they wouldn't have had the protection even without those wins
@@NYChica23 totally. Ideally you don’t want to be in “win or out” scenarios, but the ability of even a Kaycee or Hayden to win challenges facilitated their wins a ton by shaping who was there, positioning evictions, etc. Hayden’s HoHs in particular were all essential to his win imo.
@@sixredfish6115 Comps aren't a big deal unless your name is Janelle (one of my all-time favorite players, though I haven't bothered with later seasons) or someone else who isn't conventionally attractive and popular. You people are gross.
Agree with all of these except Janelle. She was targeted immediately in bb6 due to jealousy and also bc james told ivette day 1 that janelle was going after her (which was a lie). In bb7 the season 5 HGs pregamed with her as the main target which is why the bb6 alliance spent the first month of the game picking them off one by one. As for BB14 that was Boogie's doing. Ian was on a podcast where he said that had Dan kept Janelle in the game, he could have easily won in the end bc they probably would've teamed up. It's understandable why she's considered overrated but i feel like she was always dealt shitty cards and had to deal with insecure people.
This is so well said. In bb22 Janelle was also targeted due to jealousy from Dani, Nicole f, and Cody. Janelle had great social relationships with most of the other hg like Keesha, bay, Davonne, Kaysar of course, Nicole A, Memphis and even Tyler
Agreed, Janelle will always be the queen of BB for me, I started watching bb with season 6 tho so may be abit biased 😅
I'm so glad someone remembers what really happened in S6!
@@KB-dn6mhBy BB22 she was a hag I just don’t think she was good socially
at some point you should rank the house themes, just like how you did with the Diary Room
I have this video written out actually, but it’s gonna be a loooong video and quite the hard task when I get to it
@@Ethanimale king as you should!
The only part of this assessment that I don't agree with is all the people dismissed because they had to win a lot of competitions. I would measure social vs comp as 50/50 for an ideal winner.
Edit: Thinking about it, I think your list is right, but maybe phrasing your points more as defining what makes a good player overall first, and then discussing how these players all only fullfil 1 of 2 criteria (they all are good comp players but not good social players) would be a bit more effective of a framework.
That being said, i enjoyed this video. Id also like to see a version of this focusing on players who had great social games but are overrated because they didnt win any comps.
You should do an underrated big brother list. And if you want an idea on who to add I would say Michelle from big brother 11. Your video yesterday reminded me of her game play and I never hear about her on any big brother content.
OK here is my take : having to win every competition to be able to stay in the game because you have such a bad social game is technically a strategy, and i respect that strategy as it is very difficult. A lot of us fans who hyper analyze the show are interested in watching more interesting strategies that involve deception and social manipulation and we are less likely to be satisfied by season where one of these types of winners wins but I share a lot of the sentiments you have in this video and for me I think it’s because I just don’t find their games as interesting to watch.
that being said, I completely agree that evil dick is overrated 😅
Ian has owned that he thought he did well but that he was not in the list of the best of the best players. He admitted his game would have gone vastly different in bb14 with boogie and Dan. Boogie taught him a lot of the social aspects of the game and what he was doing that was making people uncomfortable around him. And in the later stages Dan reminded him alot to never let people’s personal attacks get to him and to remember it was just a game and it’s not the real world. Which it kept his head on straight forsure
Very much that, if the coaches twist did not happen, most likely Frank or Shane will win season 14.
Really interesting video topic and solid points all around! With Rachel specifically - I was never a fan growing up, and on rewatches I have come to respect her win more than I used to when it aired, but I've always thought as a gamer/strategist people hyped her up more than I ever saw exhibited. However, I also would really love to see her again. Listening to her in interviews and watching her on The Traitors, sure she's still firey/gets in fights, but I think she's matured a lot and gained a stronger strategic grasp. I would be so interested to see her play BB again at this stage in her life.
“Nick said he would have targeted Jack and Jackson if not for camp comeback” lmaooooo that is such revisionist history. Nick was 100% duped by them and thought he was ~one of the boys hence why he completely ratted out Nicole and targeted her when she tried telling him that the boys were after him
Janelle played to her strengths, showed loyalty and never kissed ass to anyone she didn't like. And her comp wins is what makes her ELITE. All the big returnees have been targeted, and 1 slip up costs you. She made it to final 3 on 6 and 7 with a target. Her most recent 2 appearances taint her reputation, but she just couldn't hold up with the physicality of the players on 14 and 21. That being said, she is an amazing competitior. Plus on 6 she almost got April against Ivette in final 4. Thats good social game. And she evicted the best player, Will. He vendetta stemed from her threat level and some jealous by other female cast members.
Nailed it. And superfanboys like Ethan think Maggot was a good player. 🙄
@@ninedaysjane2466Maggie is a great player though, you just hate the Friendship alliance
as a huge ian fan, i totally understand what you mean. a lot of my appreciation for ian - game wise - comes from the fact that he was a clutch competitor, but i also hold a lot of respect for him due to some snide comments and exclusion he’s faced in the house. him being unliked in week one of bb14 and managing to reposition himself in the house made me respect him, but his kindness to fellow houseguests that were blatantly rude to him about his autism in bb22 made me respect him even more. i think that, in a game of manipulation and lying, he still managed to give off the persona of someone who valued honesty and staying true to his values.
He won a season where Boogie Frank Janelle Dan and Britney where on, i cannot seriously agree on calling that overrated, that was a shark infested ocean and he won against the big one in final 2, if Dan is "The Best" and Ian defeated "The Best" what does that make Ian...
@@Pamaguthey smokin rocks. He just looks underrated i guess idk 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
Boogie basically didn’t want to play the game, Janelle was immediately backdoored the second she entered the game proper and gets taken out by Dan if he isn’t able to clutch out comps that test a serious variety of skills
@@AliFrankTheTank Exactly. He's a small, awkward guy on the spectrum who doesn't fit the image of a winner to people who idolize handsome and charming sociopaths.
The only one I disagree with is Ian. Dan admitted he is smart and a very dangerous player and it worried Dan. If you worry the best BB player of all-time, you got to have a pretty good game. Plus, when he was in danger he always saved himself while the pressure was high. Love your videos.
If people kept coming after him and his only choice was to win comps, that's not too good imo
@@ohwowwewoo1842 idk, Frank was worse off than Ian when it came to having to win comps. As I remember, a lot of people thought Frank was a great player that season.
@@iamlost461 I don't disagree with you there, I think Frank was more of a mess that season
Ian is overrated but Ethanimale underrates him. He’s not #19/24 like Ethanimale says or top 10 like people say he’s a lower mid tier winner so maybe about #15
@@iamlost461 Yes, but Frank is genuinely one of the worst players of all time
I don't know why it took all these years to wonder.....how did the other BB8 HGs feel when they found out about America's Player???
Have two possible video ideas. Canadian winners ranked (especially want to see how you rank Kevin and Haleena, easily the best Canadian alliance ever formed) and the other is ranking the runner ups. Rewatched your video of players we got wrong and about Big D. Would love to hear you thoughts on all this stuff. Either way, enjoy the content a lot. I am a big brother fan that I created a playable version for family and friends lol
No one watches big brother Canada goofy
unpopular opinion: if daniele could’ve articulated herself in big brother 8, she could have beat dick. her resume was much more impressive through the game, not to mention tying a record, that’s very hard to do while lying under the radar.
Seems like these players having volatile games that required them to win a lot of competitions to stay safe is what made them so legendary in the first place. Their games are memorable and wild and flashy, but not necessarily good from a strategic standpoint, which makes them special because they made it to the end in spite of the odds rather than having the odds in their favor the whole time because they played a great but less memorable game that didn't leave them in danger at all.
Yeah, Ethan doesn't get that.
why penalize Janelle for clutching competitions, that’s part of the game. You get ahead by socializing or winning competitions, she was winning and it got her to the final 3 twice! If anything it makes her one of the best players to have played with a competitive strategy
To be honest, I don't think Ethanimale articulated his argument on Janelle's gameplay very well. You see, Janelle's competiton skills aren't what make her a questionable player. Her issue is that she frequently puts herself in a position to where she HAS to clutch competitons in order to stay in the game. Winning competitions is such an inconsistent and unrealistic strategy. You can't expect any human being to just win every single comp. Whenever Janelle COULDN'T clutch out a competition, she was never able to save herself from eviction. Janelle's sharp tongue made a lot of enemies in the house. The real reason why many people don't respect Janelle's gameplay is that so many of her houseguests would happily evict her once she wasn't safe.
@@DVal-bl7hm That's absurd. Janelle is up against some fierce competition and strong alliances. Were you alive when BB6 aired? Ethan wasn't, so he's mostly clueless about what BB6 was really like. He didn't even know Ivette called Kaysar a sand n-word. He idiotically criticized Kaysar for his reaction and had to be told what happened. The Friendship just picked everyone off and Janelle still nearly beat them. He didn't -- and you didn't -- articulate your reasons for calling Janelle overrated because she isn't.
I think it’s hard to say if Ian is great or not because the best part of his strategy only really works the first time around. It’s really hard to be the underdog twice.
Risky video, but I like it. And I think you explained your reasonings fairly well.
However, I challenge you with an even risker video idea that's in the same vein as this. Top 5 Overrated FAN FAVORITES! Not to say they had to win America's favorite overall, but this would have to be a more subjective list of players who a lot of people like, but you don't. And no, you don't *have* to do this, I just feel this'd be an interesting direction to go in.
Listen I’m not trying to die in these BB streets, so idk about that one.
For real though, that would be an interesting and “scary” video to make, all depending on the approach. If it’s talking about like overall fan favorites, that would be easy as I could just choose the players that won AFP that are generally disliked (Jeff, Frank, Cody).
The harder route would obviously be leaving those easy players off the list and instead going for more modern beloved figures, which would be hard! Im having trouble thinking of any off the top of my head, plus tbh I don’t love the idea of delving into reasons why I don’t like people that are generally likable, as it’s kinda mean and unnecessary.
The REAL spicy video idea would be 5 hated houseguests that I secretly like. That would be a hot take video, but also could have issues with the concerns I just mentioned before. That is also a video I would never make but it’s fun to speculate (although I don’t think any of my takes would be too egregious. If anything it’s likely to be filled with players that were “annoying but mostly harmless”, and not anyone who’s actually a terrible person)
@@Ethanimale That'd actually be a neat compromise, HGs you like that everyone else seems to hate.
That's easy: AMERICA 😅
Good gawd you breathe wrong bout her tween fanbase are crying foul play.
@@Ethanimale You think Maggie is a good player, so I wouldn't be surprised if you liked Aryan -- I mean Aaryn. No, I mean Aryan.
I’m not sure if “if they didn’t win veto” is a good excuse for labeling someone “lucky” and “overrated” though… I understand the Dick getting assisted from America’s player and Rachel with the pandora conspiracy and Ian with the few lives he had but Michie and Janelle just balled out and were better than the rest …
Dick and Daniele were still impressive together…I have to say. They both were very unique too…no one can copy them.
I think janelle’s game play would be seen as better, if she was a he. Janelle almost always was in the worst position, her having to win to stay shouldn’t be a detriment.
100%
Great list and another great video. I am not sure that Michie is overrated. If anything I think he might be underrated given how much he is disliked. He was only targeted because he was dominating the game. His ability to come through with clutch comp wins was incredible to watch. He also played Holly, Cliff, and Nicole like a fiddle during the end game.
I agree... I think winning physical comps and keeping yourself safe is apart of the game and shouldn't count against someone. Taylor should be on this list if we start doing that.
He is overrated for a number of reasons. One of them is Holly is probably the only one in the Final 6 he even beats in a jury vote. I guess maybe Nicole, but she is iffy. Another is not being punished for eating as a Have Not. Another is needing so many comp wins to survive.
Time or poor quality of some later years can help some winners. I remember how polarizing Ian was during BB14. I think one of the players (was it Britney?) even said that a bottle of ketchup sitting beside Dan would have won. And she liked Ian. The negative response to a number of post-14 seasons and the perception that some later winners like Steve were just Ian clones (not fair - to me Steve had one of the hardest winner games) meant that Ian's reputation improved. Or more recently, people saying it's wrong to compare Ian to Cory and Ian was much better (even though Ian's strategic game in BB14 was about as uninformed as Cory's has become). I liked Ian and if anyone beat Dan I'm glad it was him (of the players left post-Britney), but his game outside of comps was not really there. I can't speak on BB22 as I have no interest in watching that season and I heard Ian was treated very poorly in the house. I'm just keeping my BB14 memories.
Rachel is a player I never knew was highly regarded, especially after BB13, but I think she was smart to never return, letting people just remember the good times. I don't think Janelle returning ruined her image, as nothing she did in BB14 (or apparently BB22) was severely regarded, but neither season did her any favors.
I never thought ED was good (if not for America he would have been out instead of Dustin), it was just an unlikeable cast and some people enjoyed seeing him go off on them. It fed into the fantasy that you don't have to play cautious on BB, you can just do whatever you want and win.
Agreed with all but Janelle. You make a fantastic argument, however, she was targeted constantly and managed to fight her way to final 3 twice. She was cut because they knew they couldn’t beat her due to the jury. She beats anyone sitting next to them both seasons.
Thank god somebody said about Rachel. 2nd worst winner in my opinion other than Josh. Rachel was a comp beast, but absolutely awful strategic big brother player. One of the worst social games of all time.
Dick and Jordan are worse than Rachel.
Rachel is horrible but Maggie was a nightmare.
Im surprises you didnt include Jeff Shroeder on this video. I might have swapped out Janelle or Ian and included him because i think he has a worse resume and gets hero level worship from some fans. But generally id agree with this video. Ive thought Rachel and Dick were overrated and flat out annoying for years now
I'd swap Jackson for Jeff.
@@olivermensingeror just add Jeff period because while I love Janelle and Ian, the arguments made in this video are logical and understandable. Jackson I don't remember very well, I more remember how much I thought half the cast that seasons were annoying and forgettable except Nicole LOL
Agreed and almost as nasty as Dick.
Please janelle put big brother on the map
She's iconic, but not a good player.
saying janelle is an overrated contestant is a wild. sir you are bold
@@olivermensingershe wouldve won both season 6 and 7 if she went to final two whether you like her or not saying shes not a good player is a LIE
@@gabeash007bro she’s not a good player😂she’s good at competitions, thats it
@@gabeash007she was not going to win s6 the friendship dominated the jury and wouldve voted for april maggie or ivette over her
Speaking of Dick, something that'll always be funny to me is:
Dick: Daniele's my daughter 😗
Joe: Ohhh! 😄✨👏👏
Dick: She hasn't spoken to me in 8 years.
Joe: Ohh... 😶😬
Joe is an underrated gem.
Wait no Davonne? 3 seasons with 0 hoh wins, 1 veto win and very little strategy.
Add in that Snackson violated Have Not rules and wasn't penalized --- they (BB) just stopped having Have Nots
I'm surprised you didn't put Paul on the list, because they're even more overrated than Janelle is. At least no one is constantly arguing that Janelle was robbed of a win, while I can't say the same for Paul, because not a day goes by when I don't see a post about how they should've beaten Nicole or Josh had it not been for bitter juries, while at the same time, those people ignore that the reason both juries Paul faced were completely bitter against them was because the jury management was just not there, and so the bitterness was a natural result of the way people got treated by Paul. Bottom line is that while it is possible to win BB without being a comp beast or the person who orchestrates all the moves, it's impossible to be a winner if your jury management is nonexistent, so that should tell you all about how much of a social game this truly is
This video is basically just “Who wouldn’t have done well if they hadn’t won competitions”. Part of the game is competitions. Winning them doesn’t make them bad players, it contributes to their gameplay.
I feel like you're underestimating Ian, despite not watching the show nor disagreeing he seems overrrated, he won when he needed, he did his best, he was smart, and manipulated enough to win, definitely above 19th on winners
Michie being here is hilarious.
He's with players who had twists blatantly prop them up because... he won comps?
There’s a huge difference between winning comps and being forced to win comps due to the threat of being evicted
@@TyroneMcDonalds I get that, but second most overrated? I find “winning when you need to” a good thing.
@@PBGellie I don't, because if you have to rely on comp wins to get yourself out of tough situations, it means that the social/strategic parts of your game are lacking, since you don't have enough of a good relationship with people that they'll want to keep you around. Huge difference between a strong comp player like Michie, where his only options were win or be evicted, and a comp beast like Kaycee, who didn't need to exclusively rely on comp wins due to having enough of a good relationship with the non L6 side of the house that they would come for other members of that alliance before they'd set their sights on her
@@NYChica23 I see your point. And it's valid. You should aim to not having to be in these sorts of situations.
But #2 most overrated because of it? Of all time?
I'd say its impressive that he managed to pull these wins off. It's not great that he found himself in that situation, but he still pulled it off. Calling this more overrated than Dick and Rachel being pulled to the end with twists is just goofy.
I didn’t even realize that people considered jackson BB21 to be that great
Some people do. I think putting him as overrated is a bit of a stretch.
You eqaute being in danger to not being a good player. I think when they save themselves it trumps it.
It's always bothered me that Rachel's response to " you have no common sense " with her going " I won two HOHs "
Like it's at all a metric for common sense
Add Nicole Franzel to this
No…
You better open a spot up next to Michie for Cam or Matt. They are literally being carried to the win by producers, twists, Americas vote.
Most overrated big brother player? 2 words;
Tyler. Crispen.
Nice video. Could you make a video of underrated players if you haven’t already?
I wish you had included Taylor, Dr Will (Great player but that bb2 game is very mid), and X (100% doesn’t win without Tiffany or cookout)
X is underrated. It's Tiffany that is overrated.
I don't think X is overrated at this point. Taylor is underrated AND overrated.
@@becbec7879 x also gets eliminated wayyy earlier without the black alliance. Tiffany would have kept Claire and Brittany over him anyday she just wasn’t playing for herself unfortunately
@@raheemfielder-bey998That's why Tiffany was overrated. X was ALWAYS playing for herself. Tiff sabotaged herself.
Genuine question for anyone who watched All Stars 2 the live feeds or the aired episodes. Do you think now that Janelle is older her social game would have been better? I'm not saying it is, but I can see some of her actions in her first two seasons being because she was younger. I don't remember Ian's season too well but I do think she was calmer in that one from what I do remember. I would rewatch big brother if i knew ways to do it in canada lol
My controversial opinion is that big brother itself is boring and that the RUclips content is more interesting… also haven’t managed to finish a single season
If anything Michie is underrated
I agree with this
Maggie should also be on this list. Shes a mid tier winner but people act like shes elite. Dont get me wrong shes a good player but everything about her game is overrated. Shes not that good scoially as half the house hated her and she was always 1 comp away from being evicted. She gets benefited from circumstances such as getting spoonfed Cappy's minions and Kaysar coming back as if not Janelle evicts Maggie at the final 9. Maggie wouldnt do that well on many seasons either as shed be an easy target most of the cases. Shes not bad but shes overrated. Dan, Derrick, Cody, Will Hayden, Andy, Drew, Jun, Nicole F, Boogie, Xavier, Michie, Kaycee are all better winners. Danielle, Vanessa, Tyler, Paul, Eric, i could go on are better players. Maggie isnt a top 10 winner and she isnt even a top 25 player ever. Maggie is one of the most overrated Big Brother players ever
Ethan thinks Maggot is underrated.
Attempt number 1 of asking Ethanimale to do the success and failures of showmances on big brother
it's happening at some point but my plate is a little bit too full at the moment and probably wont happen this season
Meanwhile, Taylor has the distinction of simultaneously being very overrated and underrated.
She’s mostly overrated but not a bad player
She's definitely overrated.
Once the recency bias wears off I think she'll settle into the middle of the pack for winners.
@@MultiSaintsfan123 maybe to the hardcore fans but she the janelle of modern bb and people wayyy over hype her win
Taylor is not overrated. The reasons people love her have nothing to do with gameplay. No one has ever said she was a dominant player or anything
So why is Janelle hated? Did the people just want her to stand there and not win comps? Each player had the same opportunity to win those comps. And she did make social bonds with Howie and Kayser . She and Erika got Dr.Will out too that's impressive.
It’s more that the rest of her game sucks. She’s awful socially and strategically.
Janelle is not hated. Ethan may be a superfan but he wasn't even alive when BB6 aired. The Friendship remains one of the most toxic alliances in the history of BB. We loved Janelle. We loved Kaysar. I can't remember what their alliance was called [ETA: the Sovereign Six] but its were very popular (at least initially) because Cappy's Cult was so awful. Ivette called Kaysar a sand n-word in the live and production edited it out in a pathetic attempt to make her look less awful. It didn't work. Janelle was our last hope to win and she almost did. Janelle has never been hated. Ethan is just clueless.
Let's be honest, if Ian won that series without Dan being in the show, nobody would think he's that good
Xavier's game is quick to mind in terms of being overrated as a winner
Honestly, I don’t think he’s that overrated at this point.
Jeff shorcedeer is the overrated player for the causals watching t[he show
"Casuals." Because obsessed fanboys are so elite.
6:37 Lol. I am pretty sure that Hayden making this comeback is how he got Ragan's jury vote in the end.
another W video! killing it with the content. thank you
Thank you so much!!!! You’re too kind
I disagree. Ian has proved he can consistently reach the end game of buddy games and is never in danger during the early game. Plus he was on this show called big brother and he did alright there I guess
Agreed. Except for the POV he won, he was never truly in danger.
Props to you for knowing you’ll probably get hate but doing it anyway
Earned a sub
Nope. He chose the safe route. Everyone always craps on Evel Dick, Rachel, Janelle, etc.
That’s exactly what I mean
Hate
all these points remind me of the current winner jag, was evicted unanimously needed a power to save him, and only got by winning back to back comps
Where's Taylor ??
Omg yes! You posted it! I don’t know if I had any influence on this after saying you should do a video like this on your community polls, but regardless it’s still cool to see. I knew people would respect your opinion 😎 great video!
Mike boogie should be on this list
People aren’t gonna like this, but Taylor Hale definitely falls in this category. It’s okay to love someone for who they are, but people REALLY exaggerate her game play. She’s the most overrated winner of the modern era.
I completely agree. Her as a person is fine but her as a player was awful. She needed people to win comps for her in order to stay safe because she couldn’t and she had no strategy throughout the entire game. If Paloma didn’t quit I do think she would’ve been evicted first. I don’t think she deserved to win against Monte and I don’t respect her as a player. But before people do get mad I do like her as a person and I can respect her on a human level but game wise? No way.
@@giannapotutoEXACTLY! I’m glad I’m not the only one that thinks this!
Completely disagree, her social game was unmatched. It was so subtle people don't give her the credit. How do you go from most hated for weeks to the winner (and most liked) with absolutely no strategy at all? Rachel remained hated even when she won bc she had no social game at all.
@@giannapotutoI believe the word awful is a BIT of a stretch considering what Taylor went through
How are you gonna say Ian is overrated because he only had safety cause he won’t comps 💀 💀 💀
One of the vetos he won he needed a random ass twist out of nowhere where there was a second veto and he needed to get save by Dan when he was vulernable due to no work he did.
If we are saying Janelle is overrated, than I'm gonna take a bullet and say BB 24's Taylor is overrated and only won because everyone else felt bad for her. Poor girl was bullied and harassed for the first few weeks and then when half the house came in to save her, they felt the need to protect her for the rest of the game and then vote for her to win. Turner helped make all of that happen AND managed to keep himself safe that whole time, he (IN MY MIND) was the more deserving winner, and I think Taylor is just a tad overrated from a gameplay perspective.
Janelle is perfectly rated… I will not sit here and listen to this slander. I’m feeling very attacked.
Your logic of good players not being good players because they would be evicted if they didn’t win comps is not good logic. They wouldn’t be targets if they weren’t good players…
Well if they had to win comps in order to stay in the game that isn’t very good social game, yet they’re hyped up to the max which makes them overrated.
Jordan was UNDERrated. I will always stick to that. No one paid her any attention any season and they thought she just was so sweet (she was nice but you know what I mean). She wins and gets close the next season she’s on to winning. That girl ain’t stupid like a lot think by any means…she knows people. Jordan absolutely deserved her win.
Amen! She definitely clutched in the final 3. Sure Jeff helped her along the way but she got herself to the final 2. I love the moment we're she goes off on Russell.
Dick winning those comps proves he isn’t overrated. Idk how saying he had to win a lot of comps to win is a negative, that’s literally gameplay
It's only a part of gameplay. Dick literally only won by being next to Danielle and America's Player (the viewers) assisting him at every turn.
He admitted to cheating in comps. That being said, I agree with you. Winning comps when your safety is on the line is great gameplay. Superfans are weird.
@@olivermensinger having rewatched the season recently I strongly disagree, Eric was also in an alliance with Dick and part of what initially made the whole house dislike him was Eric making “weird” votes which were Americas votes and led to Dick forcing out Nick who was an ally for him
Janelle was to real to fake with players who hated her based on her looks. The fact that thru hard work she was voted out makes her one of the Best players ever. Period
Incredible list, I'd probably slot in Xavier over Ian but the list is fire
Kinda agree except on Michie.
He's completely underrated. Winning all of those comps and moving with his only ally to the correct side of the house, while being on the front seat during the whole game is a biiiiig achievement.
Agree with many comments here. Taylor is immensely overrated. She goes out week 1 if Paloma doesn't have a meltdown and production decides to cancel the eviction.
Remember the Backstage Boss twist was in play, so she stays through week 1. She might still go early though.
If you make a “Most underrated BB players” video and Josh isn’t on there, I’ll be severely disappointed 😂😂
I'm throwing Andy on that list, because it seems like too many people focus on what a dumpster fire season 15 was and really don't stop to pay attention to how strong of a winning game he actually had, despite purposely being invisible throughout most of the game. It's not easy to float and make alliances with practically the entire house without getting caught early on, but Andy managed to go until the very end of the game without ever being found out, which I find pretty darn impressive
Thinking about Janelle and wondering if her classic era gameplay would even give her the instant win in the modern era that it would have had she made it to final 2 in season 6 or 7.
That got me thinking:
You should create a fantasy cast of Classic vs Modern Big Brother. 8 and 8. Don’t even be realistic with who would or wouldn’t come back. Essentially create a cast that best represents all the different aspects of either the classic or modern era. The good and the bad.
Think about who she was up against in BB6 and you might get a clue. The Friendship would be toxic in ANY season. She won comps when the odds were completely against her and almost won the final HOH. That would be an achievement in any era.
Very well made video Ethan! Even though Rachel and Janelle are my personal fav players I do respect your opinion on them. I just can’t help but root for comp beasts/underdogs.
This may be the bravest video you’ve ever made haha!
I’m not gonna disagree with your picks as you’re entitled to your opinion and you’ve rationalised your picks. My only issue in concept is undervaluing clutch wins. You said several times “X goes home if they don’t Y competition.” I don’t think you can win BB on comp wins alone, and there has to be some semblance of strategy. But it does still form a big part of the game and I think downplaying that to rank opinions on players isn’t really fair.
Great video, agree with all of these takes. I havent seen that much Ian love so wouldn't of called him overrated coming into this, but agree that he is a mediocre winner. I think I was in the camp of overrating Jackson before, but you brought up some great points that have made me reconsider that.
There's plenty of Ian love. The fact that you haven't seen it means nothing. Were you alive at the time his season aired? Then again, you can't even string a proper sentence together. It's would HAVE, not would OF.
thank you so much for this. agreed with legit every single one. someone finally said it.
Great list. Your best non winners bracket with holly made me reimagine Jackson’s game and also realize i overrated him until recently. I was really hoping to see carnage with you putting taylor on the list though. I guess based on responses in the same “best non winner poll” Janelle will be close enough haha
While big brother is billed as a darwinist social game where "smart players" try to make noone mad and who can lie through their teeth. Something does need to be said for the players that come in fiery and try to win it through sheer dominance of competitions. Competitions you know where the actual power lies up to the jury vote.
you need to do top 5 underrated!
All of BB5.
I never understood why people like Janelle. I watched season 6 of Big Brother, and I genuinely could not stand her she came across as superficial and self-absorbed. It’s hard to believe that she was a finalist, let alone a four-time All-Star.
Considering in that same winner poll the other third place winner was Taylor i’m calling her overrated
No Taylor Hale?
Dumb luck is relavent to EVERY SINGLE BB WINNER EVER. I dont see how that is even added as an agrument to be on this list. especially Ian. (no hate dude)
It’s because constantly relied on it. W/o his other team members and his comp wins Ian is gone. We’re not saying Ian sucks, in fact he’s a great entertainer and lovely autistic representation, but he only won because of a) Boogie and B) the way Dan played the game. Nothing else. No manipulations, contrasting to Dan who KNEW his ass would be gone if he didn’t get “blood on his elbows”. And because of how pissed the jury was, (kudos to Ian for this) he still brought Dannto the end.
What I’m trying to say is Ian isn’t responsible for 70-90% of evictions in that house nor did he really do that much; Ian needed a push to even vote Ashley and send her home, and after that there wasn’t really a game strategy to be held, here wasn’t really any “Hm, who would be a horrible person to be in my final 2/3/4…” he relied on Brittany and the Quack Pack too much.
The point is, where “dumb luck” significantly outweighs actual strat, then we have every person on this screen. Additionally the fact that they were very popular AND were thought to be Dr Will/Dan/Cody level great, is also what got them on this list.
The difference between someone like Dan and someone like Ian, is the amount of work output (manipulating, strategising, damage control) used in the game. Ian had like 5 comp wins; Dan had around 2. Both of them made it to the end, and funny enough, Ian was being targeted throughout the end at so many points, I don’t even think he realised this which shows how he also lacked social interaction skills (nonetheless, his situational skills was still alright)
I think jackson is very underrated tbh. I get Tommy had more social connections but wow for Jackson to get cliff and Nicole to keep holly over Tommy is so wild! Also combined with that fact that his closest ally was screwed over by having people she knew on the cast cuz production didn’t check insta.
Correct literally nobody talks about him lol. Hes either underrated or properly rated.
Jackson is an easy pick for Ethanimale because no one likes him and he can say all he wants with him with no backlash. He should have included a player like Da'Vonne/Tiffany/Taylor, but he knew he'd get backlash. He's a coward.
@@becbec7879Why would he pick Tiffany? I could see a Taylor pick making sense (even though I love her)
But Tiffany dominated BB23 and only lost because the cause mattered to her more than her own personal game did.
@@becbec7879 100%
@@random_jae5886 Yeah the cause of racial supremacy how noble of her.
I agree with you about Rachel. I always thought of her as annoying, and I was happy when Ragan threw so much shade toward her.
I don't really have a way to nudge the idea in so you get a free pass Ethan.