The hidden danger in 747s
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- Corry Will, Luke Cutforth and Jordan Harrod discuss a question about a discreet danger.
LATERAL is a weekly podcast about interesting questions and even more interesting answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit www.lateralcas...
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HOST: Tom Scott.
QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe.
EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin.
GRAPHICS: Chris Hanel at Support Class. Assistant: Dillon Pentz.
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FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd.
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© Pad 26 Limited (www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2024.
This is definitely late in the recording session because the silliness meter is very high.
RUclips's favorite Viking Man!
And I'm all here for it.
too.too.
Given the comments at the end of the video, I feel duty bound as a nuclear engineer to say: depleted uranium (DU) is less radioactive than most rocks. Precautions have to be taken during handling due to chemical reactivity and the potential for heavy metal poisoning, not for nuclear reasons. If DU were even vaguely harmful from a radioactive perspective, it would be categorised as nuclear waste and would not be available for industrial use (such as this). End of rant.
I think I've heard somewhere that if you ate depleted uranium, the toxicity of the metal would kill you long before the radioactivity would.
i guessed in another reply, but does DU have a chance of getting "reactivated" in an air crash? or perhaps having it left in the open/wild is another form of risk?
@@alveolateonly if it was left in a particle accelerator. I don't remember much of my nuclear physics but I want to say you'd have to transmute it up the periodic table to make it fissile again
@@porygonalbreasts You're right that it would take special equipment. Depleted Uranium is just the leftovers from uranium enrichment. It's made up of about 99.5% U-238, which, while it is technically radioactive, is not only so low in radioactivity that you are at a much greater risk for heavy metal poisoning than you are from the radiation itself, but most of the radiation it gives off is alpha radiation, which doesn't even have enough energy to get through the top layer of our skin.
However, it is a fertile isotope, meaning if you have a neutron source you can transmute it into U-239 which then decays into Plutonium-239, which _is_ an isotope readily capable of nuclear fission. This requires a functional nuclear reactor with its own fuel source, though.
Basically, if you have the resources to be able to turn depleted uranium into the more dangerous plutonium 239, then you have the resources to just buy U-238 from the normal industrial channels, you aren't going to be scavenging it from airplanes.
We use the stuff in tank rounds. It literally bursts apart and catches on fire in doing so.
"You Sassy, Sassy Boy! Who Hurt you?"
Gary Brannan. Gary Brannan did.
Hurt him? But but... he's everyone's favorite Gary Brannan!
Tom just confirmed that Pluto IS a planet. Justice for Pluto, thank you for joining the tiny planet resistance Tom!
Yet you guys don't care for Ceres or Eris.
Your resistance is a sham!
I prefer Mungo however do take your towel with you. You need it.
Did he?
@@dojelnotmyrealname4018He said "other planets", implying that Pluto is a planet.
That said, it _is_ a planet, just a dwarf planet.
Can't wait for Ceres to become a planet again
4:44 🎵Cheese That Makes Your Head Explode🎵
O hi, TomSka enjoyer :D
Corry's reaction to the Caesium guess was outstanding
I scrolled past a lot of pictures of liquid cesium before I found anything that looks like cheese; but the stuff that looks like cheese *really* looks like cheese.
Either I can't find the correct photos or y'all are eating some strange cheese I'm not aware of 🤔
There were concerns regarding those things being missing during aviation accidents involving 747s such as when El Al 1862 crashed into a residential building in the Netherlands or when Korean Air Cargo 8509 crashed in the UK.
I remember hearing about this incident and it made me figure out the answer to Tom's question before it was done reading. If I remember correctly, several people who were present at the crash site have presented symptoms similar to Gulf War Syndrome which has caused more suspicion on why GWS happened to so many Gulf War veterans, since DU could have been used in armor piercing ammunition during the conflict that afflicted the soldiers.
Reminds me of the old "The Nth Degree"
The tail wagging the dog.
@lightningwingdragon973's comment was noticed, so they have won the Nth Degree.
I don't understand that reference. For me, it was right to the movie Wag the Dog (1997).
@@sophiamarchildon3998 The Format Laboratory - Experiment 3 (Matt and Tom)
3:19
With this lightning Tom's pupils look vertical.
Tom, are you becoming a witcher?
Tom is a reptilian
I got it the SECOND you said that itnwas the exact opposite of Hydrogen. And then I thought... 'God, Tom... Please tell me they DIDN'T use depleted Uranium for this...!'🤦🤦🤦 And yes... Yes they did.🤣🤦
Yep; that's when I got it.
My immediate guess is asbetos, lead or depleted uranium.
Fun fact - Here in Canada we have small cities named Uranium City, and Asbestos
Tom did a video a while back about the town of asbestos
I was pretty sure it was depleted uranium, because some other planes have a lump of it in the nose to move the center of mass forward and improve stability. (easier to add a weight than to move the wings back).
I can't say this question felt particularly Lateral to me. It was a very straightforward question with a straightforward answer.
I thought it had to do with the bathrooms and the material clue was leading to biohazard. This was very straightforward indeed.
my thoughts even after 'dense' went to osmium because its oxide is very dangerous and it is used in small weights for very heavy things
Hydraulic is liquid, not necessarily water. The point is to have a fluid that is not compressible.
This is the comment I came looking for.
In fact isn't an oil used more commonly as amongst other reasons, water could freeze or boil in the tubes.
Talk about hot topic subject. Boeing being in such a mess right now. 5:21I got it, depleted uranium, Tom gave it away with saying military use.
First guess: leaky toilets.
The design sometimes caused certain fluids to build up in a remote area where it seeped to.
I wish Tom would have bleeped "asbestos" every time it was used. leave everyone to wonder why you beeped "asbestoses."
My initial guess is Halon, though this is informed by my time working at Cessna, and the baggage compartment in the tail being where the fire suppression system is mounted. I've got no idea about it on the 747, but it seems logical that it would be similar, since the baggage area would be at higher risk of fire.
Well, did not expect that
Cheesium, the creamiest, explodingest element.
Hydraulics is liquid, not necessarily water specifically. In many use cases, water has poor properties for being used in hydraulics. The freezing point is low, it will gather mold etc… mineral oil is a better alternative.
"All of the ones on that end go boom"
Cheesium
I wasn't sure which "danger" this was going to be until Tom mentioned military use.
Followed by an audible "What? Noooo... Why?!"
Asbestos might not have been such a bad guess. Planes have APU in the tail section (small(er) engine that powers the electronics and all the pumps and stuff before the start of the main engines)... and since it is inside the aircraft, some thermal insulation may be required... not sure what is used in b-747 though
What does Corry's t-shirt say about ADHD?
"Sorry, I have ADHD" from what I can make out.
For some reason I was thinking Beryllium Copper, since it was used in products (Ping Eye 2 BeCu golf clubs came to mind) for a long time before people realized it could be extremely toxic, especially when ground into a powder, like when being cut as part of a demolition.
To Corry's point, ever since I learned about Cesium in AP Chem some 22-odd years ago (*GOD* i'm freakin old), I've wanted to take a chunk of it up in a helicopter, wrapped in a thin layer of dissolves-in-water-y gel, and go fishing in, like, lake superior or something with it. Just drop it in, wait a bit, and kablooie!
... and then collect the stunned/dead fish from the surface.
Corry's final question was brilliant.
Initial thoughts: because the structure was under great tension "at rest" and remove some part could release that energy suddenly and hurt someone. Something like cables that actuate the control surfaces, or the trim of such surfaces (no fly-by-wire back then).
Funny. My first instinct was that they had some glass windows made from uranium glass...
The risks of depleted uranium is a little exaggerated in this video. Unless you are investing it you are probably ok
I just woke my wife up by shouting depleted uranium so I really, really hope that's the right answer.
How did Jordan not know this? That she didn't happen to know depleted uranium counterweights were used in aviation, sure - but I would have expected her to have figured it out no later than "something near plutonium, yes."
I am now going to try to re-imagine turbulence as the plane being happy and wagging its tail. 😛
(Also, the synchronized facepalm around 4:48.)
two thirds through, i thought:
.
.
.
.
"URANIUM?!"
And here we have some delicious food for the algorithm ;-)
Oh yes, I got it immediately!
I guessed it as soon as Tom mentioned tungsten.
not at all rare and really not that hazardous.
I was thinking Mercury, figured the 70s were too early for depleted uranium.
Depleted uranium dates to WWII
Uranium fever has done and got me down
Uranium fever is spreadin' all around
I looked up what cesium looks like, and... dear Lord, what kind of cheese do you *have* in the UK? 😂
Question about the book: I live in Canada so I can get the US edition for $24.99 or the UK edition for $27.99. What are the differences between the two?
Are we just all gonna ignore Corry's attempt to bring "perusing" Tiktok back? 😅
it's depleted, so it shouldn't be radioactive anymore
my guess is that in the event of a crash, high temperatures and/or pressures may reactivate it or something? either that or depleted uranium is only 99.x% depleted and that fraction left over might cause issues if lost in the field.
@@alveolate It doesn't "reactivate". Uranium is chemically very poisonous, quite separately from being radioactive. Depleted uranium, from which most of the U-235 isotype has been removed, is only weakly radioactive but it remains just as toxic.
A good working definition for all heavy metals is _Very Toxic to living things._
@@alveolateit's possible to activate a nuclide and make it more radioactive, but it requires neutrons that transmute it into a different isotope/element. It cannot possibly happen accidentally to a 747.
At some point after all that "goes boom" I genuinely expected someone to pick up French Affair's 2000 summer hit. 😞
It was used because it is 68% denser than lead. Also, it is a by-product/waste of the nuclear industry and so possibly priced accordingly.
I was wondering "Did they put mercury in as ballast and pump it between two cylinders, to adjust for CoG shift?".
Also, at the El-Al crash in Amsterdam, were the people in white looking for the deleted uranium?
Were the notes “special precautions are needed because they contain a dangerous material”? Feels pretty obvious, no?
Why use DU though, and not a slightly greater volume of a less dense material? Like Lead or bismuth (or a slightly lesser volume of an even denser material, like tungsten). I can understand why it's not gold, but why DU specifically?
I'm a bit disappointed that, when they were talking about caesium and cheese, none of them came up with the obvious "cheesium" pun.
my guess after hearing the question: asbestos
The answer to this question was so absurd that I managed to instinctively guess it almost immediately.
depleted uranium is not that radioactive at all actually
Cheese, yum!
Girl did not know what asbestos is, and it showed lol
One would assume they where not using one of the bad isotopes. Likely using 238 where the special safety requirements are pretty much... Don't eat it. Cuz you know how those disassembly mechanics just love eating parts of planes. :p
In fairness, that is kinda implied in the term "depleted uranium". DU is what comes out of the centrifuge after you collect all the U235.
As a child of the 70s I can confirm Corry's statement that they made everything dangerous in the 70's. Maybe we had scientific breakthroughs in the 80's that showed us the error of our ways, or maybe we were just a self destructive race acting out our post-WWII PTSD.
Poor Jordan
Question: if an accident happened with one of those uranium-tail-loaded 747s, what precautions would be needed when burying the survivors? 🤔
when recovering the bodies - you would need to protect yourself from inhaling or ingesting the dust. Once the bodies are recovered you don't need any special precautions during burial.
U-238 is barely radioactive and an alpha emitter, so unless ingested or inhaled it's radiologically pretty much harmless. The problem is that it's a heavy metal (and heavy metals are toxic), it's quite reactive and flammable (when ground into dust it can even spontaneously combust).
well, you'd need to make sure they have food and water supplies and access to fresh air, seeing as they're *survivors*
it was slightly obvious what the reason was, but what the material was and the original intended use of those materials i didn't know about.
luke did sound like he could've had a career in politics or PR or something.
I'm sure that there is something radioactive in there. Glow-in-the-dark radium paint, something lead-lined, or asbestos insulation. Not very specific, but those are the big three of demolition hazards.
Ah. Damn. My original thought was beryllium alloys.
copper-beryllium wrenches and tools are used in some places, I believeit's because they don't spark
@TheAechBomb beryllium alloys are also used in some aircraft frame pieces because they're lightweight and strong... and beryllium dust is dangerous.
Tools wouldn't make sense unless every single aircraft in that timeframe had a lost tool in the same spot, but even then they could just pick it up and move it
4:33 "I've seen pictures and videos of caesium. It does look like cheese!"
Coincidentally, the Italian word for cesium is "cesio", pronounced "CHEH-zee-oh".
Give him a break! He’s doing asbestos he can!
Sorry, what pictures of cesium are you looking at? Not a single one that I can find looks like cheese
3:20 Lizardperson Tom Scott?????
Spoiler
Gggggg
Depleted Uranium used as counterweight
You don't have to say it 3 times. There is as****os literally everywhere.
For most of this i thought it'd be mercury. Even the "only couple of planets away" right before the reveal fit lol
Of course it's the one thing that you're supposed to stay away from 😂
How in the world are we still alive and kicking is beyond me
First!
Also the lack of commas in the question made it sound like the plane was built specifically to be scraped lol.
EDIT: Oh no.. I didn't mean to start comma drama.
there's nowhere in that sentence where a comma makes sense
All planes are built to be scraped... except B-52s, apparently. Yeah, yeah, not _specifically._
That's also how I first read it! 😀 "Why are extra precautions taken when disassembling the tail section of a Boeing 747, built in the 1970s, for scrap?" …would have been clearer, or maybe with dashes rather than commas.
@@lexistential "...747, built in the 1970s, for scrap."
Like that, bud.
@@blindleader42 The B-52s just have too many engines to be scrapped.
The dangers not hidden if it's Boeing!
Spoiler
5:55 "I find that when I'm making a plane, I also want it to double as a dirty bomb"
Cheesium