I love his final point. Carrying doesn’t make you a Superman. If your head isn’t in the right place, and you can’t control your emotions under stress, you are potentially a danger to yourself and others. Keeping cool can keep you from even having to “defend your actions “
My CCL instructor said the process begins with the 911 call. Anything you say to them can also be used against you. Just tell them there's been a firearm incident, please send police. Call your attorney while they're in route, and if your attorney has a call service, don't say anything to them because they are not protected by attorney/client privilege. If you can get your attorney on the phone before police arrive, he/she can guide you exactly what to say or not say.
This is certainly true. You have to balance that with "How bad can the responding officer make this for you if you piss him off by being rude?" The more I learn the more questions I have.
@@papimaximus95 Cops are not your friend. Law enforcement officers, are enforcers. Speaking to LEO's is likely going to be frustrating and not diplomatic. Talking to armed enforcers who are confrontational ( the nature of their occupation ) and trained to be aggressive, and not trained to be diplomatic could escalate the situation. They have disarmed you and you are not able to protect yourself. They will shoot you if you say the wrong thing, or get frustrated.
@Mary Smith let me guess... you subscribe to the theory that if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide. A notion that encourages the dismal of civil rights.
Thanks for recording this! People will agree or disagree and each will have to make that personal decision, but I applaud you for having Ayoob defend his position.
I am former Military and have held a CHL in numerous States for most of my life. I am now 75 years old. I train often and it is very high quality training. I am also a motorcycle Biker and frequently go to seminars to learn how to interact with police during traffic stops. I've also attended a few "adjudicator" training courses where you experience real life examples of shoot/no-shoot situations. Still, having to shoot someone in civilian life and dealing with the aftermath is something I don't look forward to. This was a very valuable video for me and I wish all my NRA course participants spent time watching clips like these. Great job and thanks!
My CCW Instructor, a County Sheriffs Deputy, told us to just repeat "I had to stop the attack". But I like the statement that "Officer you will have my complete cooperation after I have spoken with council", that really sets the stage in my opinion.
WOW!!! This was really great to know. Good things to help, should the circumstances arise. Not too much, but just some main points to let the cops know of your intent to assist, but also not more than they need to hear, or more than you need to say. I've been keeping a binder of key things learned here on Extra, and ASP original. I hear it, I write it, I say it out loud. It helps me retain info.
Good on you for giving Massad Ayoob time on your channel. A wise friend pointed me in his direction back around 1990 when I was taking an interest in self-defense. He's the real deal.
I know it is tough to do in a short video, but one issue with the "limited statement" given to responding officers is That You Cannot Stop The Officer's Questions while you are giving your story.....and I think that is why a lot of good defense attorneys counsel for you to say nothing. Telling a story to officials is a Learned Skill Set. Thanks For Your Great Work !
In short, the brief fight for your life with your weapon won't be nearly as scary, dangerous, or drawn out as the following battle. You took them out of the loop by protecting yourself. So they now have to punish you with their unlimited resources.
You have to have that same fighting instinct about more than just the violent incident. Self-righteous indignation. Determination not to go down like a wuss, because you were not the bad guy.
So let me get this straight. You kill a perp who has a history of robbery & other crimes, and now they want to make you the criminal. Sounds like they trying to railroad you and make themselves look like heroes, by framing you. That's why you say nothing, except" where the fock is my lawyer"
1. Establish the active dynamic 2. Reinforce active dynamic: I will testify against him 3. Point out evidence 4. Point out witnesses 5. Officer, you will have my full cooperation after I’ve spoken with counsel
I understand the list he gave and agree but have a question: what if several or even one of the witnesses you point out are friends of the perp? I mean if witnesses lie to damage your case that cant be good. Just for discussion...should there be guidelines for what one should think about before pointing out a witness?
@@PlanktoniusRex That witness is going to testify against you anyway. Better to point him out where he stands and it will be recorded in the officers duty camera so he doesn't come back and say he was someplace else on the scene.
unfortunately it seems like perpetrators have more rights than victims in our justice system. i'll take my chances being silent and talking with my attorney first.
@@Morggin You have never been in a physically demanding situation like that, have you, my friend? Have you ever been in combat or even something like a fist fight or something? Do you remember how you felt after that and can you even remember how you felt during? By saying "of sound mind" - I think the gentleman was merely saying relaxed and calm. I agree, though, that not being "of sound mind" does sound bad, though. I think the person put it wrong, my friend, but just consider that.
@@Morggin Just out of curiosity - you don't notice your entire sympathetic nervous system going crazy in those times? The adrenaline doesn't make you say or do some things that you might not in regular circumstances? I just think perhaps some are effected this way, so if it applies to them, it might be good to do their best to remember to stick only with what was said in the video there. For folks like yourself, I don't think you would have to worry about it. I am a combat vet, but I never got used to it or comfortable, so I better try to keep the advice if possible as well lol. Anyhow, nice having the chance of discussing this with you. Have a great day :) . .
@Fafhrd 2 A few years ago the Virginia State Police pulled a guy over who had several rifles, shotguns, pistols, ammo, a knife and a map of Washington D.C. with an X on the White House. After seeing all of this the cops said "Yup you are good to go" Two weeks later the guy drove to the White House. Left behind everything but the knife. Jumped the fence ran across the grounds, entered the front door, knocked the Secret Service agent at the door down and ran around inside the White House for a little while.
Been watching your videos for years, and they are great. But now that you have had Mas on your channel, you have a new subscriber. Today, there are way too many videos about tacticool gear and zombie toys. So your channel is a refreshing change. Took my first class with Mas over 20 yrs ago. Mas is absolutely the best trainer ever, and I still have all my notes. EVERYONE with a CCW permit should be REQUIRED to take his class, or at least watch every Mas video you can find. and yes, his videos from the 1980s are still being reposted. Plus, buy and read all his books!
I suspect that Ayoob has been a very valuable associate in formulating what a cop should say to an internal affairs "investigation" but I wouldn't trust him to give me advice of how to protect myself as a citizen from giving statements to police at the scene of a crime or at a interrogation after the event happened. He knows what the police want and they know how to get it from a person who is accused of a crime, even if they have to lie, intimidate and threaten the perp. It's better to have someone beside you during any communication who can tell you to shut up because he realizes what the police are trying to get you to say and what its effect will be at trial. What the police want is self-incriminating statements that can be used to put you away...or worse. They have no sympathy for someone who will say something inadvisably that will result in him being shut away for a long time or for the remainder of his life, or even if the statement was not true as interpreted. The police if not your buddy. They are your accuser, your jailer and your punisher even if they lie to get you to talk. NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE. it won't help you at trial.
Even invoking your 5th, you answer ANY questioning afterwards, you reliquished your 5th protections for that line of questioning. Those answers are admissible. God help you, if it's the questioning officers hand written notes of what you 'said'.
Thirty years Los Angeles DA: It's not enough to say I"m invoking the 5th. You must say, "I want my lawyer present before answering any questions". The interrogation must stop. Any continued questioning that gets a response is inadmissible.
@Tom Gulbranson you are wrong. Mason is correct. You must invoke your right to remain silent. www.justia.com/criminal/procedure/miranda-rights/right-to-silence/ You are wrong. And likewise wrong to use appeal to authority argument, which is a fallacious argument en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
With all due respect to Massad, who I continue to respect, I disagree for several reasons based upon my representing people in gun cases for the past 26 years. I'd be happy to have a friendly round table discussion on the issue!
How many of your gun cases where the Shooter had an open carry permit and was truly defending his Home after someone broke in with a crowbar and you the permit carrying Homeowner with an impeccable military and Civilian career did you lose. Or simply your win vs loss record? With all due respect your statement isn't a specific statement but could be legally a generalization.
@@WAGNERONE1978 Every case is unique. There is too much here for a short answer. Feel free to contact the firm and set a time for us to discuss your question in detail. Thanks!
@@ourcorrectopinions6824 Massad Ayoob is a former police officer, in fact retired Police Captain. Take his advice to speak with police to your own peril. His assertion that invoking your 5th is grounds for suspicion, is unconstitutional. ... Can I search? No. Well that gives me reasonable suspicion for a warrant to search. It does not work like that.
@@ourcorrectopinions6824 your assumption is wrong. I fully understood that you don't agree with retired Police Captain Ayoob's reasoning. I supported your previous assertion with vital omitted and very relevant information Massad Ayoob was a police officer for nearly three decades.
To review: 1) Establish the active dynamic (i.e. you are the victim and acted in self defense) 2) Confirm dynamic ("I will testify against him") 3) Point out the evidence 4) Point out the witnesses 5) "You will have my full cooperation after I have spoken with counsel" and now shut up
Parts of #1, and all of 2, 3, 4 and 5 are no-gos. Basically say “he/she” did this (in one sentence or less), then "I’d like to speak to my attorney." End of story.
@@ourcorrectopinions6824 - I agree with that statement expect #3. In the rare scenario that a perp tosses their weapon over a picket fence or some other obstacle out of sight, it's in you best immediate interest to have it found and secured by Investigators.
Thank you Pom for sponsoring this channel. I carry Pom OC spray every day. I was proud during training over the weekend when the instructor asked what non-lethal tools the students had, I held up my Pom and looked around to realize that I was the only one.
Just remember- This is advice from someone with a LAW ENFORCEMENT background.. Remember a large part of their job is devoted to EXTRACTING information from people to be used AGAINST (their words) them. To hear both sides, make sure you listen to LEGAL experts that are faced with defending/prosecuting people every day.
You think Massad is trying to trick you? Ha ha. He is a highly respected expert in self-defense and a professional witness and you know more than he does? What he's saying is besides saying " I fear for my life so I shot him" you should go a little bit beyond that if appropriate. Like they were breaking down my door, there were two of them and one got away. Then you say I'm not going to speak anymore. I'm in shock but later I will fully cooperate. If you play belligerent and the one got away goes to Police and says you murdered his friend, that is the narrative and you stay silent? Get your story out then shut up.
Proving self defence ! 1. I saw an armed individual who represented an immediate danger the my life .There is no other way that I can protect myself or the people around me (and assuming that law enforcement is not on the scene) except use a weapon which is in my possession . 2. I saw a clear path to neutralize the threat without hurting anyone else 3. I drew my loaded weapon while shouting a verbal warning 4. I aimed to neutralize the threat again making sure there is no one else that can be harmed 5. I fired my weapon once so as to neutralize the threat ( assuming that the threat didn't surrender in a split second) 6 Once the threat is neutralized , I engage the safety of my weapon and observe if there are any injured from the threats actions . 7 Give assistance to injured parties if any exist while waiting for law enforcement to arrive and take control of the situation. 8 Surrender your weapon to law enforcement and repeat the essential parts of the above order of events to the initial officers on scene and in later investigations . 9. Make sure your recount of the events is accurate and repeat the same details to every law enforcement or court which asks you to repeat the order of events . 10 Never but never change your story even if the law enforcement personel try and force you to do that . 11. Practice makes perfect . Verbally you should be repeating this sequence of events ever since you got your weapon from the store/armory .Know this sequence by heart and be able to repeat it in the middle of the night Now you guess where I learned this song .
From my experience, the absolute first thing I would say to do is put your hands in the air when they arrive and show that you are unarmed, say "I was attacked", the attacker is over here, and the weapon I used is here. From the very start it shows you are cooperative and not trying to hide anything. Also when you call 911, don't say "I just killed someone", say basically the same thing "I was attacked, I acted in self defense, please send an ambulance" It shows you don't want the attacker to die and you weren't meaning to kill them but to stop them.
@bali song i was just telling my experience with it. That’s exactly what I did when I shot an attacker dead on my front porch and I only spent one night in the police department and except for maybe a hour of being handcuffed to a table the rest if the time was in interview rooms telling what happened. No charges were ever placed. No bail. No nothing. The only issue I had was it took almost 3 years to get my gun back.
Not at all certain that I would stick around for the cops to show. You plug someone and have no idea whether his friends are close by. If I can get out of dodge, I'm gone. If my lawyer instructs me to turn myself in, that is what I do. I am under no obligation to further endanger myself for the sake of making the job of police easier. Keeping myself alive, is.
@@andrewvida3829 While I agree you dont have to risk your life, saying his friends might be close by is really weak if he could have survived if you got him an ambulance.
Just remember: The police are _NOT_ your friends when they arrive on scene. They are _NOT_ there to congratulate you on a good defensive shoot. They are _NOT_ going to take your word as the _truth_ . (Psst, criminals lie...) They _ARE_ trained in manipulating people into a potentially bad statement (it helps their case). They _ARE_ there to investigate a crime, of which you appear to be the perpetrator. They _ARE_ going to arrest you regardless of how perfectly within the law your self defense shooting was. There are exceptions of course, but be prepared to go in handcuffs. Lawyer up and shut up. If you say anything it needs to be VERY SIMPLE. "He attacked me." "I feared for my life and I defended myself and family." "I need time to process what happened." "I WILL help with your investigation, but I MUST speak with a lawyer first." I think that was along the lines of what Ayoob said, but he drug it out in more detail than I would ever do. The more you add to the equation, the more complex it becomes, and the greater the chance something potentially incriminating is said. I'm certainly not an expert, but I have worked in the CJ field for a few years...and I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night. 😉
I agree with your comment. The only part I ask for clarification on is if cops are trained to manipulate you into a "bad statement." If by bad you mean INCRIMINATING and FACTUALLY CORRECT then I'll agree. But it's of no use to anyone to coerce false statements.
gwolff but some do coerce false statements. Read “You Have the Right to Remain Innocent”.
4 года назад+21
The only thing I disagree with is "I WILL help with your investigation..." You should in NO WAY help the police with their investigation (regardless of 100% justification), and here's why: Ya know that little bit in the Miranda warnings that says, "Anything you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST you in a court of law?" Well, guess what? The opposite is equally as true: "Anything you say CANNOT and WILL NOT be used FOR you in a court of law." The cops work for the State, the prosecution. Everything their investigation uncovers can only be used against you in court. If the cops find irrefutable evidence that the shoot was completely justified, but the DA disagrees and decides to prosecute you anyway, that evidence will be quashed and never heard in court, I promise you! That piece of shit DA will never allow that evidence to enter the record because he/she has made up his/her mind to get a conviction, and fuck the facts, folks! Lawyer up and shut up!! Repeat it until you believe it!
Massad is the MAN! I love to listen to his instructions on things. Talk about real-world smarts; he's the epitome of that in the world of carrying a weapon and such. Thank you, John, for this great interview. This is great information to know!!
Thanks John for going straight to the well for this lifesaving drink of knowledge. Massad brings not only years of experience but also common sense to help us all better cover our ASP
I wanted to take LFI 1 in 2004 & LFI 2 in 2008 but $$$ & schedule problems prevented it. Ayoob has been around years!!! More CCW users, armed officers need to learn about him.
As much as I honor and respect Mr Ayoob's knowledge, and experience, My lawyer, (a former sheriff), has explained to me, that even the police don't make their documented statements for up to two weeks after a shooting. And they get coached on how to 'articulate' everything. His response and training for me has been: "be polite, but simply state you want to press charges, then politely explain you'll be glad to answer any further questions under counsel. ... Then shut up." Let me add this: I'm a union steward, and I've had to 'represent' workers at my job much the sane way. And even WE coach people to simply request their Weingarten rights, and shut up too. I too, have personal experience with people innocently saying even ONE fact that the investigator/supervisor tried to twist, making my job harder. I can defend a lack of words, and politeness, more times than not, than a missed/botched detail later. And... we all know how conveniently shoddy those body cams are. Anyways, I'll take my risks with being quiet, over trusting an officer to do his job right/working in my favor. "It's his job, but my right."
I agree. I've watched videos of Officers, Lawyers, and Judges getting pulled over and they don't say anything. Even when they get pulled over for driving intoxicated, most often, they will refuse a breathalyzer or take a field sobriety test. Do they know something we don't know? I want to know why they refuse. If a Defence Attorney says "don't talk"...I will listen to him.
@@rifleshooterchannel208 What a fking ignorant statement. Why would he be invited for an interview? And why would people be impressed that he took the time to give his opinion. You're the one who's the blowhard.
@@rifleshooterchannel208 I wouldn't say he is a _blowhard with zero credibility_ . That's somewhat inaccurate to say. If you said he was an expert in shooting techniques, but not legal stuff surrounding the aftermath of a shooting. You would be more accurate. Ayoob isn't a lawyer, he's a shooting expert. His advice was questionable. The more you talk, the more you incriminate yourself...even if you didn't do anything wrong. That's where I disagreed with his assessment of dealing with law enforcement after a shooting. He had some points that made sense on the surface, but I still would relay that information through a lawyer.
Great advice. Training doesn't end with a trigger pull. There's a whole process to be familiar with including the after action. The fight does not end until there's a final legal decision.
The back of the uscca card has those exact steps in order, and after I've followed those I will repeat the last step over and over...."Officer I will cooperate 100% but first I need my attorney" SILENCE.
Well done for going back to Mas for his differing take on the matter vis-a-vis that of Marc Victor. You have dispassionately allowed two thoughtful, articulate, if opposing, view points to be compared and contrasted.
As long and as respected as this man is I would’ve thought he would never give this kind of advice he is not an attorney and it shows , make a brief statement and shut your mouth and talk to your lawyer , my God 😳
I agree, this guy isn't a lawyer and the advice he is giving is horrible. My personal lawyer who I have paid before said this to me if I'm ever in that situation. Shut up and don't make any statements and remain silent. This guy and his so called expert advice is crazy talk.
This is true everywhere you may go. “You have the right to remain silent anything you say can and will you be used against you in the court of law”. Wait for the your mouth piece.
Agreed. I think that in a perfect world, Mas's advice isn't necessarily bad, and if you reasonably think you can follow it---go for it. But I just think it's real easy to start talking but not stop talking. Especially since cops are trained to get info from suspects and do so by pushing for it and/or appearing to be you friend. But it's not their job to be your friend. They want to get the "bad guy", and you maybe the BG to them. Also I don't trust them not to try and twist my words and screw me later. It happens all the time. I think the danger of overtalking is more than the danger of undertalking. Of course Mas would say that his method is just the right amount, but it's a gamble. I guess it's up to every individual. Now just shutting up immediately, eh I think you can say something to the effect "he tried to kill me, he had a gun/knife/pipe, and I defended myself" then shut up from there.
@@1972glm even if the best cop in the world showed up and he was your actual friend, he could still unintentionally misinterpret what you say and it'll be used against you later.
Massad Ayoob is an expert on guns and gun fighting and I will listen to every word he says on that subject. Period. But I will not listen to legal advice from someone who has never defended a shooting case in court. How many attorneys have you heard that said, "I could have gotten him off if he had kept his mouth shut!" A non-attorney cannot know what things will be taken out of context and twisted to be used against you by an ambitious DA. Do you trust police to remember exactly what you said and how you said it? And the most important of all, TALKING TO THE POLICE CAN'T HELP YOU! Nothing you say can be used FOR you in court! It's all hearsay! And who does he think he is, saying that somebody who panics after a gun fight should not be carrying a gun? I wouldn't want to know somebody who WASN'T shaken up after a gun fight.
Mas is a court appointed expert witness who has been on litigation team for hundreds of actual litigations and helped hundreds of real people defend their life in court.
@@thebubbacontinuum2645 so ... you're a lawyer. How much did your law school teach you specifically about "Deadly Force law"? Did they teach you about the doctrine of competing harms/doctrine of necessity? Are you familiar with the concept of "An Affirmative Defense"? I suggest you take one of LFI courses. Massad will teach more about deadly force than you will ever learn at law school.
@@ASPextra Are you also aware that he has been impeached on the witness stand while testifying in court as a witness? He was made a fool of while involved in court room testimony against the FBI years ago. Many of his articles written for the gun rags, "The Ayoob Files", were largely fabricated and less than factual. This plus his self enamored behavior of which I am personally aware of, leave me less than impressed. He does do a great job of marketing himself though!
It establishes that you weren't trying to kill him and once he stopped attacking you stopped shooting, using what you believed to be appropriate force.
As an attorney, its to hard to give advice that at least keeps all your defenses open wo knowing a specific fact pattern. For example, if the government can’t make its case, then saying nothing is the right answer. Personally, if I were in a defensive situation, it would be important for the police to know you were afraid and took the most reasonable course of action you could come up with. Ayoob knows what he’s doing but I don’t think this advice can be applied universally.
I understand where Massad's thought process is coming from. Though in actual practice the likelihood of someone saying what he recommended versus self incriminating themselves seems to be very risky. You are already in compromised mental state after a shooting, yet you have the ability to coherently explain the situation rationally? I think very few people would be able to do so safely, without incriminating themselves. I think it's best to say nothing.
Agreed. You are more likely to say something that will be detrimental to your case then helpful. We are not lawyers and certainly not competent to navigate the legal realm of giving a statement or answering questions without counsel.
It's a good starting point, but there is one big difference between them and you: their colleagues are *not trying* to get them locked up. They're trying to find ways to get them off the hook. .So all they have to do is avoid saying anything incriminating, and it will generally be interpreted in the most favorable light. You can't assume that they'll interpret your actions in the same light.
@J K. WRONG. Their job isn’t even in the top ten if dangerous jobs. They should be held to the highest standards. They should be severely punished for indiscretions. You’re either a cop or very naive.
This channel had been recommended to me previously and this is the first video that I've watched. And while I was pretty interested in the subject and the person being interviewed, I can't even get through half the video without being inundated with ads every 90-120 seconds. I don't see a reason to try another video from this channel as I'm not even going to finish this one.
Thanks for uploading this for us to see. Another issue that wasn't discussed is obvious to us, but just not covered. Your concealed carry permit. CCW permit holders are some of the most lawful citizens in the country. They break the laws LESS than LE. The arriving LE personnel need to be told, and reinforced, that you have a lawful concealed weapon, and that you had a serious threat and you had to deal with it. You will cooperate in any way necessary, but wish to seek guidance from your attorney.
I think Mass is telling us what he would do and framing it as what we should do. I don't think he realizes the difference between us and him. The guy is a professional orator with many decades of experience as an expert witness, firearms instructor, and police officer. He's well spoken, and extremely seasoned and intelligent. But as humans we are terrible judges of other people's knowledge versus our own, and this is a blindspot for everyone, including him. He is pulling from experience of particular cases he was involved with and thinking "ahh it would have been easier for this guy if he had done xyz at the scene!" but then not ALSO thinking about "hmmm, what if he talked more and said THIS, then he'd be FUGGED". You can be cooperative without saying a darn thing, don't be belligerent with the cops, listen to their verbal commands and enjoy your free ride downtown for questioning with consul present.
Mass was my teacher in the 80s when I had a carry permit in NYC just had it not renewed last year This man is an Icon in the world of self defense my courses at LFI were invaluable but in those days there was one criteria for self defense and Mass always said so many are in jail because they didn’t respect the Avoidably aspect of the statute an essential ingredient to a sane self defense law leave it to Florida and others to remove the avoidably aspect of the law Stand your ground means goad someone into an act that qualifies as worthy of deadly force and use it what a perversion of self defense this is thanks Mass for making this so obvious to me
While I agree with the sentiment I can't get over the fact that I need to make sure I tell the police enough to make sure the "Professionals" personal bias is satisfied to the point that he can function in an unbiased "professional" manner
It's not a personal bias, it's a professional one. As a teacher, I don't believe everything a kid tells me about what happens at their home, or why their homework looks like it was written by mommy. It's not that I don't trust the kid, I just know that it's human nature to protect oneself and one's ego - just as your comment suggests, actually.
I would respectfully disagree for a few reasons: 1) All that nice stuff you explained to the officer probably will not be admissible. 2) If your story now changes at all, you have just compounded a problem that was easily avoidable if you had just shut up. 3) You are going to get brought in regardless. 4) You are not on trial right there on the scene! The responding officer is not pressing the charges! He is, generally, taking notes and controlling the situation. You have rights for a reason; use them!
Yes and no. If the stakes are high, you simply say Ill answer your questions in the presence of an attorney. Leave it at that. You can say he's the perp, Im the victim and nothing more.
I feel like this advice rings true to the person giving it - from the perspective of an old school police officer. I think it’s important to take the time and discuss this aspect of exercising one’s right to carry or own a firearm. But I also think its important to remember that it is also your right to stay silent. The police can think all they want about your guilt or innocence, but it is not the police who have the power to make that decision. Murderers cooperate all the time with police investigations and put themselves in jail. Police are trained to talk you into giving up your rights and no amount of blue striped flags in your yard or on your vehicle is going to change that. However one chooses to act in the aftermath of a self defense incident is entirely a personal decision so thank you for taking the time to share this video and bring the discussion forward to the firearms and self defense community. What ever you believe is the best way to react for you personally, I think the most important take away, like with anything else in the realm of firearms and self defense, is to assess what’s in front you, process it, and make a decision that you will be comfortable with for the rest of your life because there is no taking back bullets, or words.
It’s amazing and also outrageous of the amount of Steps and training and guidance good civilians take to defend themselves in the aftermath of a shooting but But criminals don’t think twice about any laws. Their mind fit is get what you want by any means necessary. Now they’re wearing body armor to do robberies and mass shootings and Civilians get punished with stricter gun laws
I disagree with Massad on this. The Police don't decide your fate. The Prosecutor, Judge and Jury do. IMO you're better off lawyering up than saying something to convince the Police on scene you're innocent. It's not really their opinion that matters. By saying things to them you could hurt the opinions of those people who DO matter.
As a woman I really appreciate your videos, I’ve been wanting to get a concealed carry license, but need training before I feel comfortable carrying. I have learned so much from you, I’m looking forward to more hands on training, but in the meantime I’ll be watching all ads to show my support of all the effort you put into your videos :) Thank you so much!!
I do know this. Detectives are trained at interrogation which includes manipulative tactics. As the shooter, you are the primary suspect. Their primary motivation is getting a conviction which may or not lead to the truth. They can lie about having 'evidence' to scare you into making a false statement and saying something stupid that isn't even true. Agreed to be the first one to call 911, mention there's been a defensive shooting, and fully comply with getting arrested having the gun on the ground and hands in the air upon arrival. Probably after an incident, there will be too many emotions to say anything calculated. Just let them know you want to execute the right to remain silent and need representation from an attorney. Being 'cooperative' doesn't mean blabbing away to them and exerting your right to counsel doesn't make you guilty. My thoughts on this anyways.
Having been a street cop and investigator... Not saying anything to the initial responding officer is a horrible idea. After you say I defended my life because he tried to kill me, then shut up. Never talk to police inside an interrogation room without a lawyer. Telling responding officers enough to know you're the good guy is a must tho
There's zero chance you're talking yourself out of anything without a LEOSA card. There's no way you can guide the investigation to your advantage by talking. The risk of saying even the most benign things is huge. You will not make a proper statement when you're in extreme stress that goes with self defence. There's a reason why self defence lawyers do not give Massads advice.
@@JumaiPL ehh bullshit... I've been in plenty of super high stress situations, including weapons and suspects and dead people and everything in between.. I'll be just fine. What I'm not gonna do is stand there like a dumbass over a dead body and say nothing other than "I want a lawyer". But hey, I'll do me, you do you. Someone who's never had huge adrenaline dumps on a regular basis would likely be better off just keeping their mouth shut. Idk. Last time I was involved (as just a regular guy) in a life or death situation, I looked around and there were 3 people just standing there watching and I was the only one moving and doing anything so you're likely correct.
@@WideAwakeHuman I can't tell you your experience is wrong, there's a good chance you're so experienced with stress you can do fine. The reason I've started with that is, there's a ton of bodycam videos that show on duty cops get into 100% justified shootings and even they can't hold their shit together- they start to ramble, move around etc, they exhibit the typical adrenaline dump behavior. If I ever get in a justified shooting, I'm taking the county holiday over saying anything but invocation of rights.
@@JumaiPL yeah I'm likely in a fairly unique situation where my experience + the fact that I know most of the law enforcement in my area probably makes me feel different. But I know I've been a responding officer to a self defense shooting and the shooter just said a quick sentence about what happened and then asked if he could call his lawyer. If he had refused to even tell me he was defending himself and just said he wanted a lawyer I wouldn't have known he was anything other than a murderer. But you're probably right, if you can't keep your mouth shut just say you want to cooperate but want to talk to a lawyer first. I don't think we really disagree about it
1). Call 911- it’s recording while ringing - keep your mouth shut 2). Once they answer - give name -location - you were ATTACKED - Yiunwere FORCED to defend yourself- you need 2 ambulances (minimum- 1 for you and 1 for bad guy) - you need the police - HANG UP if safe to do so - immediately call your attorney 3) once police arrive - ID yourself - If firearm is used advise what direction you fired- that way they can make sure no innocents have been hit and need medical attention. 4) politely advise them that you will be more than happy to cooperate with investigation and answer any and all questions......once you have met with your attorney - INVOKE YOUR RIGHTS!! Everyone has the right to remain silent most don’t have the ability. It’s a natural reaction to explain or defend their actions. This is NOT the time or place for that.
Thank you, sir, for your help. Immensely appreciate it. I would have been one of the EMS with the guerney and ambo attempting to help the injured. Sorry.
@ so are you intimately familiar with the use of force laws then? What's your stance on Affirmative defense as it relates to the use of force shootings? Have you also heard of the doctrine of competing harms or the doctrine of necessity? (they are the same thing just different terms used in different states). Are you familiar with the Bernhard Getz case? I believe as many others do that Bernhard Getz's biggest mistake is going to a guilty man's lawyer. A lawyer that is famous for getting guilty men off the hook. I honestly believe it's because of his choice of lawyers that Bernhard had to spend almost a year on Rikers Island.
Exactly! They tell you anything you say CAN and WILL be used against you in a court of law. The deck is already stacked against you before you even go to court.
Great content. I train with a five-time champion for SASS, and his advice is very similar. Cooperate with the officer on scene. Your statement should be: 'I was forced to shoot because...' Point out evidence on scene. Make no further comments. Great advice.
Thank you Mas and John for sharing this video. I say ditto!!! to a few of the other comments on (somehow) getting Mas, Terry and Marc all together for a conversation on this subject. That would be a great video! Thank you again Mas and John! 😃👍 Keep yourselves safe! Randy
This was one of the biggest takeaways I had from Mas' MAG20 - Armed Citizen’s Rules of Engagement course. Highly recommended for anyone who carries a gun!
Been there, done that. In 1980, I was involved in a violent incident wherein I was attacked, and I defended myself. My assailant needed medical attention when I finished with him. I made certain I was the first to contact law enforcement, and when they arrived, I gave a brief statement of the incident, looked the officer in the eyes, and asked, " What can I do to help you get this monster off the streets?" Nothing really came of it all, but the incident report did indicate that I was the victim and no one went to jail. A friend chastised me, telling me that I should never have spoken to the officers without a lawyer present ! Three years later, this same friend was involved in a similar incident. He, however, did not contact authorities. His assailant did, claiming victimhood. When the authorities arrived, my friend refused to speak to them. My friend was later arrested, what with having been charged for assault and battery over the matter, and he served a short stent in the county jail. Being his friend, THIS TIME I did not say anything. LoL
Civilians are not Leo's, they are under no obligation to make a public safety statement concerning the shooting. Exercise your right to remain silent until you've talked with your attorney. Massad is giving you what the police want to encounter and what they'd like to hear when arriving at the scene. It does not benefit the shooter in anyway, first impressions be dammed. The crime scene is not the court and the ofcrs are not the DA/ Judge and or Jury. They cannot and will not adjudicate anything there. The detectives will investigate, submit the facts, void of personal opinions to the DA or CA for further action. Remain silent, short of identifying yourself, the serialized firearm will more than likely be registered to the shooter if required by their home state.
Some people just want to do things the hard way and hope for the best. You just need to make sure that the facts present to you in the fractions of a second at the moment of the incident are equally clear to investigators or else... You get stuck with what everyone else says.
So don’t tell the officer about the security camera that clearly captured event , just wait until you see lawyer & the video is looped over? & never tell officer where perp threw his weapon/mask or other evidence, wait to tel lawyer 48 hours later?
"void of personal opinions" That is not even remotely true, there will be personal observations about the shooter, including his demeanor, state of mind willingness to cooperate etc. etc. .
If you are uncooperative when the cops arrive, you can be sure you will leave the scene in cuffs in the back of the paddy wagon. If you are friendly and cooperative, it's possible that you will be released on your own recognizance, and asked to come in later to make a statement.
The problem with revealing some information is that it jeopardizes your right to say nothing. You have a right to say nothing, but even in a courtroom or grand jury hearing you must invoke your right not to incriminate yourself immediately and at the outset. Then it is up to the judge to provide you with immunity so that you can testify without fear of prosecution. The ONLY information you should reveal at a shooting is to inform the investigating officer of any individuals at large who may be armed as a result of your incident. Then invoke your right to speak to counsel. It is not an investigating officers decision to prosecute. It is the prosecutors. When you begin to speak about the incident, you invite the investigating officer to continue to question you, which gives you a chance to say the wrong thing. It is far more difficult for your defense counsel to undo something you said, than to explain to a jury why you invoked your right to speak to counsel. In a high stress time recalling your exact story later is extremely difficult and any discrepancy in the statements made at the scene and then changed later will get you convicted.
1. Establish active dynamic. What did he do to FORCE you to defend yourself. 2. Reinforce. Make yourself the victim. "I will testify against him". 3. Point out the evidence. 4. Point out the witnesses. 5. Shut up. You will have my full cooperation after I consult with my attorney.
Although I respect Massad Ayoob greatly, I will have to greatly disagree with this line of reasoning. The realities of the legal system is, no matter what you say to the police cannot be used to help you in court!!! Under the rules of evidence, any statement you make to the police cannot be used for you, Only AGAINST YOU!!! Even if you provide information to the police about self defense, there may be other witnesses who says otherwise, even honestly by seeing from another angle many times even car accidents can have three differant statements as to who is at fault. Let alone a shooting. By having your attonrey explain the situation to the police, they can get their information and the statement cannot be used against you because of heresay under the rules of evidence. This allows to the ability to not say anything in the heat of the moment that WILL be used against you in the court of law. Remember, even police may have a misrecollection honestly of what you say, they are only human. By using a lawyer to speak for you, this gives you time to slow down, recollect your thoughts, anylize your actions, and a more concise story will appear along with the eveidence. Because if you just blasted someone, your heart is pumping, your mad, angry, confused, fight or flight, you almost always will make a statement that some element will be used to prosecute you when by being silent and getting an attorney (They have to provide you with one), this takes away much of the falacies of human conditioning when it comes to memory. Example if you cooperate and tell what you think is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then a witness who saw from a diiferant angle says it didn't happen that way, even if the evidence at the scene may be ambivilant, it is still enough to charge you and the prosecutor can get you on the stand and say that you are a lyer if you are trying to defend yourself or if you don't take the stand say you are a lyer and we have a witness to prove otherwise. In this way, your lawyer can take a look at you, see the evidence and talk to the witnesses to get them to corroborate eveidence if there is a witness. And if there are other perpatrators, you want them to run, run, run, because those are less witnesses on the scene against you. Your attorney will tell the police about them and they will most likely be caught and nine times out of ten will tell on themselves and each other. ALWAYS have an attorney present if you defend yourself because you may give the police just enough to say it wasn't self defense and the other way around is they are going to charge you no matter what and it is better when you go to court as a defendant and you can tear apart the witnesses stories, and the evidence to go along with it. At least then you will be treated more fairly and have an opportunity to tell your side of the story, REMEMBER, ASKING FOR A LWAYER CANNOT BE USED AGAINST YOU, BUT ANYTHING YOU SAY CAN AND WILL AND CANNOT BE USED FOR YOU AS IT IS HERESAY UNDER THE RULES OF EVIDENCE!!! I know, I have been through this before!!!
4 года назад+3
Sadly, it seems you need to say it again (and LOUDLY!) for the people in back! "Under the rules of evidence, any statement you make to the police cannot be used for you, Only AGAINST YOU!!!" This is not an opinion, folks, this is fact!
Of course any prosecution won't use your statement but as Mas said, it will most likely be on a body or dash cam and can certainly be used by your defense....provided it doesn't get 'lost'
Heaven forbid this happen to me but I will take your advice and shut up until a lawyer shows up. Ive read your piece over and over, makes sense to me. Thank you very much.
Well in car accidents not my fault I always give report of what happened firmly and clesely on scene and the physical evidence that supports their fault not mine
Never talk to the cops on the scene. NEVER. The responding officers are NOT the officers who investigate the scene, nor are they the prosecutor who can cut a deal or look at all the evidence. DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS WITHOUT A LAWYER. This guy is wrong.
I love his final point. Carrying doesn’t make you a Superman. If your head isn’t in the right place, and you can’t control your emotions under stress, you are potentially a danger to yourself and others. Keeping cool can keep you from even having to “defend your actions “
My CCL instructor said the process begins with the 911 call. Anything you say to them can also be used against you. Just tell them there's been a firearm incident, please send police. Call your attorney while they're in route, and if your attorney has a call service, don't say anything to them because they are not protected by attorney/client privilege. If you can get your attorney on the phone before police arrive, he/she can guide you exactly what to say or not say.
Solid advice
Fantastic advice indeed
Anything you say can and WILL be used AGAINST you in a court of law. And we all know how honest our court systems is.
This is certainly true. You have to balance that with "How bad can the responding officer make this for you if you piss him off by being rude?" The more I learn the more questions I have.
That's exactly why you need to be able to articulate the situation. Silence will be used against you as well.
@@papimaximus95 Cops are not your friend. Law enforcement officers, are enforcers. Speaking to LEO's is likely going to be frustrating and not diplomatic. Talking to armed enforcers who are confrontational ( the nature of their occupation ) and trained to be aggressive, and not trained to be diplomatic could escalate the situation. They have disarmed you and you are not able to protect yourself. They will shoot you if you say the wrong thing, or get frustrated.
@Mary Smith let me guess... you subscribe to the theory that if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide. A notion that encourages the dismal of civil rights.
@@NPS69
A lawyer can defend your silence, easier than your mistaken admission of guilt.
Thanks for recording this! People will agree or disagree and each will have to make that personal decision, but I applaud you for having Ayoob defend his position.
I am former Military and have held a CHL in numerous States for most of my life. I am now 75 years old. I train often and it is very high quality training. I am also a motorcycle Biker and frequently go to seminars to learn how to interact with police during traffic stops. I've also attended a few "adjudicator" training courses where you experience real life examples of shoot/no-shoot situations. Still, having to shoot someone in civilian life and dealing with the aftermath is something I don't look forward to. This was a very valuable video for me and I wish all my NRA course participants spent time watching clips like these. Great job and thanks!
After listening to all this--Now i can understand why lawyers advise saying nothing until you speak to lawyer. Simple.
You got folks up in Linesville, PA?
You didn't get it before? I'm hoping you're a kid or something.
In reply to Jeff Beagle: YEP!
there is NO advantage to talking to cops. shut up and lawyer up
@@mikehascats26 There is an advantage, but you have to be careful what you say..
My CCW Instructor, a County Sheriffs Deputy, told us to just repeat "I had to stop the attack". But I like the statement that "Officer you will have my complete cooperation after I have spoken with council", that really sets the stage in my opinion.
...so you stopped the attack by killing the victim you were attacking? I guess that's one way.
@@GS-cx6hv Pull your head out of your ask.
@@bearly1727 but then how will you hear me when my head is out, but yours is still firmly lodged in?
@@GS-cx6hv LOL no one cares to hear you.
Counsel
WOW!!! This was really great to know. Good things to help, should the circumstances arise. Not too much, but just some main points to let the cops know of your intent to assist, but also not more than they need to hear, or more than you need to say.
I've been keeping a binder of key things learned here on Extra, and ASP original. I hear it, I write it, I say it out loud. It helps me retain info.
You should have a round table discussion on this topic with Massad, Marc, and Terry.
It would be awesome but it’s hard to get them all together.
@@ASPextra For sure. Maybe a video call?
@@timothysherrange not enough money.
Massad is a retired police officer...
@@ASPextra ZOOM it Brother!
Good on you for giving Massad Ayoob time on your channel. A wise friend pointed me in his direction back around 1990 when I was taking an interest in self-defense. He's the real deal.
I know it is tough to do in a short video, but one issue with the "limited statement" given to responding officers is That You Cannot Stop The Officer's Questions while you are giving your story.....and I think that is why a lot of good defense attorneys counsel for you to say nothing. Telling a story to officials is a Learned Skill Set. Thanks For Your Great Work !
Massad Ayoob is nothing but pure class, character, wisdom, and knowledge. Thank you both, Mr. Correia and Mr. Ayoob. Keep fighting the good fight!
In short, the brief fight for your life with your weapon won't be nearly as scary, dangerous, or drawn out as the following battle. You took them out of the loop by protecting yourself. So they now have to punish you with their unlimited resources.
Gunfight was just the warmup for the real arena of legal quagmire.
Sad but true in most cases. Generally NOT where I live though.
Just like hunting, the work starts after the shots are fired
You have to have that same fighting instinct about more than just the violent incident. Self-righteous indignation. Determination not to go down like a wuss, because you were not the bad guy.
So let me get this straight. You kill a perp who has a history of robbery & other crimes, and now they want to make you the criminal. Sounds like they trying to railroad you and make themselves look like heroes, by framing you. That's why you say nothing, except" where the fock is my lawyer"
Be the first to call 911, Identify yourself as the victim, then say I'll wait for my lawyer.
1. Establish the active dynamic
2. Reinforce active dynamic: I will testify against him
3. Point out evidence
4. Point out witnesses
5. Officer, you will have my full cooperation after I’ve spoken with counsel
This should be pinned
I think rather than I will fully cooperate say that is my only statement until I speak with counsel
I understand the list he gave and agree but have a question: what if several or even one of the witnesses you point out are friends of the perp? I mean if witnesses lie to damage your case that cant be good. Just for discussion...should there be guidelines for what one should think about before pointing out a witness?
Char Char Binks
To fully cooperate does not mean you incriminate yourself.
@@PlanktoniusRex That witness is going to testify against you anyway. Better to point him out where he stands and it will be recorded in the officers duty camera so he doesn't come back and say he was someplace else on the scene.
unfortunately it seems like perpetrators have more rights than victims in our justice system. i'll take my chances being silent and talking with my attorney first.
Well the perp is already dead, and the cops want someone to arrest. Cops LOVE arresting people.
@@Morggin You have never been in a physically demanding situation like that, have you, my friend? Have you ever been in combat or even something like a fist fight or something? Do you remember how you felt after that and can you even remember how you felt during? By saying "of sound mind" - I think the gentleman was merely saying relaxed and calm. I agree, though, that not being "of sound mind" does sound bad, though. I think the person put it wrong, my friend, but just consider that.
@@mihaeltomasovic to answer your question. Yes, I have and all I have to say is when things get hard, be hard.
@@Morggin Just out of curiosity - you don't notice your entire sympathetic nervous system going crazy in those times? The adrenaline doesn't make you say or do some things that you might not in regular circumstances? I just think perhaps some are effected this way, so if it applies to them, it might be good to do their best to remember to stick only with what was said in the video there. For folks like yourself, I don't think you would have to worry about it. I am a combat vet, but I never got used to it or comfortable, so I better try to keep the advice if possible as well lol. Anyhow, nice having the chance of discussing this with you. Have a great day :) . .
@Fafhrd 2 A few years ago the Virginia State Police pulled a guy over who had several rifles, shotguns, pistols, ammo, a knife and a map of Washington D.C. with an X on the White House.
After seeing all of this the cops said "Yup you are good to go"
Two weeks later the guy drove to the White House.
Left behind everything but the knife. Jumped the fence ran across the grounds, entered the front door, knocked the Secret Service agent at the door down and ran around inside the White House for a little while.
Love to hear more from Mr Ayoob!!
Been watching your videos for years, and they are great. But now that you have had Mas on your channel, you have a new subscriber. Today, there are way too many videos about tacticool gear and zombie toys. So your channel is a refreshing change. Took my first class with Mas over 20 yrs ago. Mas is absolutely the best trainer ever, and I still have all my notes. EVERYONE with a CCW permit should be REQUIRED to take his class, or at least watch every Mas video you can find. and yes, his videos from the 1980s are still being reposted. Plus, buy and read all his books!
I suspect that Ayoob has been a very valuable associate in formulating what a cop should say to an internal affairs "investigation" but I wouldn't trust him to give me advice of how to protect myself as a citizen from giving statements to police at the scene of a crime or at a interrogation after the event happened. He knows what the police want and they know how to get it from a person who is accused of a crime, even if they have to lie, intimidate and threaten the perp. It's better to have someone beside you during any communication who can tell you to shut up because he realizes what the police are trying to get you to say and what its effect will be at trial. What the police want is self-incriminating statements that can be used to put you away...or worse. They have no sympathy for someone who will say something inadvisably that will result in him being shut away for a long time or for the remainder of his life, or even if the statement was not true as interpreted. The police if not your buddy. They are your accuser, your jailer and your punisher even if they lie to get you to talk. NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE. it won't help you at trial.
"Anything you say can and will be used AGAINST you." Not for you. Also Being mute does not envoke your fifth amendment. You must state you envoke it.
Even invoking your 5th, you answer ANY questioning afterwards, you reliquished your 5th protections for that line of questioning.
Those answers are admissible.
God help you, if it's the questioning officers hand written notes of what you 'said'.
Thirty years Los Angeles DA: It's not enough to say I"m invoking the 5th. You must say, "I want my lawyer present before answering any questions". The interrogation must stop. Any continued questioning that gets a response is inadmissible.
Bravo
Being mute is admissible if you have not invoked your rights.
Bravo
Being mute is admissible if you have not invoked your rights.
www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/salinas-v-texas/
@Tom Gulbranson you are wrong.
Mason is correct.
You must invoke your right to remain silent.
www.justia.com/criminal/procedure/miranda-rights/right-to-silence/
You are wrong.
And likewise wrong to use appeal to authority argument, which is a fallacious argument en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
With all due respect to Massad, who I continue to respect, I disagree for several reasons based upon my representing people in gun cases for the past 26 years. I'd be happy to have a friendly round table discussion on the issue!
I would love to get you two in the same room!!!
How many of your gun cases where the Shooter had an open carry permit and was truly defending his Home after someone broke in with a crowbar and you the permit carrying Homeowner with an impeccable military and Civilian career did you lose. Or simply your win vs loss record? With all due respect your statement isn't a specific statement but could be legally a generalization.
@@WAGNERONE1978 Every case is unique. There is too much here for a short answer. Feel free to contact the firm and set a time for us to discuss your question in detail. Thanks!
@@ourcorrectopinions6824 Massad Ayoob is a former police officer, in fact retired Police Captain.
Take his advice to speak with police to your own peril.
His assertion that invoking your 5th is grounds for suspicion, is unconstitutional.
...
Can I search?
No.
Well that gives me reasonable suspicion for a warrant to search.
It does not work like that.
@@ourcorrectopinions6824 your assumption is wrong. I fully understood that you don't agree with retired Police Captain Ayoob's reasoning.
I supported your previous assertion with vital omitted and very relevant information Massad Ayoob was a police officer for nearly three decades.
To review:
1) Establish the active dynamic (i.e. you are the victim and acted in self defense)
2) Confirm dynamic ("I will testify against him")
3) Point out the evidence
4) Point out the witnesses
5) "You will have my full cooperation after I have spoken with counsel" and now shut up
I've heard that making the 911 call establishes you as the complainant (i.e. victim).
@@gblargg Make that call before any of the perps do too. as soon as possible!
Parts of #1, and all of 2, 3, 4 and 5 are no-gos. Basically say “he/she” did this (in one sentence or less), then "I’d like to speak to my attorney." End of story.
@@ourcorrectopinions6824 - I agree with that statement expect #3. In the rare scenario that a perp tosses their weapon over a picket fence or some other obstacle out of sight, it's in you best immediate interest to have it found and secured by Investigators.
To me it seems that 1 and 4 are the only ones you would want to open your mouth for as the others would be subjective beyond lawyering up
Thank you Pom for sponsoring this channel. I carry Pom OC spray every day. I was proud during training over the weekend when the instructor asked what non-lethal tools the students had, I held up my Pom and looked around to realize that I was the only one.
Just remember- This is advice from someone with a LAW ENFORCEMENT background.. Remember a large part of their job is devoted to EXTRACTING information from people to be used AGAINST (their words) them. To hear both sides, make sure you listen to LEGAL experts that are faced with defending/prosecuting people every day.
Never say a word to cops. EVER. The cops today simply cannot be trusted. Law Enforcement isn't what it once was.
Exactly!!!
You think Massad is trying to trick you? Ha ha. He is a highly respected expert in self-defense and a professional witness and you know more than he does? What he's saying is besides saying " I fear for my life so I shot him" you should go a little bit beyond that if appropriate. Like they were breaking down my door, there were two of them and one got away. Then you say I'm not going to speak anymore. I'm in shock but later I will fully cooperate. If you play belligerent and the one got away goes to Police and says you murdered his friend, that is the narrative and you stay silent? Get your story out then shut up.
@@gmcjetpilot trying to decipher your English but yes, I am saying he is (admittedly) not a legal expert and his advice should be taken as such ..
Correct
Proving self defence !
1. I saw an armed individual who represented an immediate danger the my life .There is no other way that I can protect myself or the people around me (and assuming that law enforcement is not on the scene) except use a weapon which is in my possession .
2. I saw a clear path to neutralize the threat without hurting anyone else
3. I drew my loaded weapon while shouting a verbal warning
4. I aimed to neutralize the threat again making sure there is no one else that can be harmed
5. I fired my weapon once so as to neutralize the threat ( assuming that the threat didn't surrender in a split second)
6 Once the threat is neutralized , I engage the safety of my weapon and observe if there are any injured from the threats actions .
7 Give assistance to injured parties if any exist while waiting for law enforcement to arrive and take control of the situation.
8 Surrender your weapon to law enforcement and repeat the essential parts of the above order of events to the initial officers on scene and in later investigations .
9. Make sure your recount of the events is accurate and repeat the same details to every law enforcement or court which asks you to repeat the order of events .
10 Never but never change your story even if the law enforcement personel try and force you to do that .
11. Practice makes perfect . Verbally you should be repeating this sequence of events ever since you got your weapon from the store/armory .Know this sequence by heart and be able to repeat it in the middle of the night
Now you guess where I learned this song .
What I was told to say, "I'm going to cooperate, but I want my attorney present before I answer any questions".
@bali song thanks!
a lot of good information to be learned, thank you for sharing.
Glad it was helpful!
From my experience, the absolute first thing I would say to do is put your hands in the air when they arrive and show that you are unarmed, say "I was attacked", the attacker is over here, and the weapon I used is here. From the very start it shows you are cooperative and not trying to hide anything. Also when you call 911, don't say "I just killed someone", say basically the same thing "I was attacked, I acted in self defense, please send an ambulance" It shows you don't want the attacker to die and you weren't meaning to kill them but to stop them.
@bali song i was just telling my experience with it. That’s exactly what I did when I shot an attacker dead on my front porch and I only spent one night in the police department and except for maybe a hour of being handcuffed to a table the rest if the time was in interview rooms telling what happened. No charges were ever placed. No bail. No nothing. The only issue I had was it took almost 3 years to get my gun back.
Not at all certain that I would stick around for the cops to show. You plug someone and have no idea whether his friends are close by. If I can get out of dodge, I'm gone. If my lawyer instructs me to turn myself in, that is what I do. I am under no obligation to further endanger myself for the sake of making the job of police easier. Keeping myself alive, is.
@@andrewvida3829 While I agree you dont have to risk your life, saying his friends might be close by is really weak if he could have survived if you got him an ambulance.
Excellent advice from people who know that they are talking about. Thanks Mass!
A conversation between attorney Marc Victor and Ayoob would be fantastic!
That would be an extremely useful briefing.
wonderful video and enjoy sharing this info .. thanks for this EXTRA channel
Glad you enjoy it!
Just remember:
The police are _NOT_ your friends when they arrive on scene.
They are _NOT_ there to congratulate you on a good defensive shoot.
They are _NOT_ going to take your word as the _truth_ . (Psst, criminals lie...)
They _ARE_ trained in manipulating people into a potentially bad statement (it helps their case).
They _ARE_ there to investigate a crime, of which you appear to be the perpetrator.
They _ARE_ going to arrest you regardless of how perfectly within the law your self defense shooting was. There are exceptions of course, but be prepared to go in handcuffs.
Lawyer up and shut up. If you say anything it needs to be VERY SIMPLE.
"He attacked me."
"I feared for my life and I defended myself and family."
"I need time to process what happened."
"I WILL help with your investigation, but I MUST speak with a lawyer first."
I think that was along the lines of what Ayoob said, but he drug it out in more detail than I would ever do. The more you add to the equation, the more complex it becomes, and the greater the chance something potentially incriminating is said.
I'm certainly not an expert, but I have worked in the CJ field for a few years...and I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night. 😉
Coming from a family of lawyers, more likes on this comment!
I agree with your comment. The only part I ask for clarification on is if cops are trained to manipulate you into a "bad statement." If by bad you mean INCRIMINATING and FACTUALLY CORRECT then I'll agree. But it's of no use to anyone to coerce false statements.
Good info👍
gwolff but some do coerce false statements. Read “You Have the Right to Remain Innocent”.
The only thing I disagree with is "I WILL help with your investigation..." You should in NO WAY help the police with their investigation (regardless of 100% justification), and here's why:
Ya know that little bit in the Miranda warnings that says, "Anything you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST you in a court of law?" Well, guess what? The opposite is equally as true: "Anything you say CANNOT and WILL NOT be used FOR you in a court of law."
The cops work for the State, the prosecution. Everything their investigation uncovers can only be used against you in court. If the cops find irrefutable evidence that the shoot was completely justified, but the DA disagrees and decides to prosecute you anyway, that evidence will be quashed and never heard in court, I promise you! That piece of shit DA will never allow that evidence to enter the record because he/she has made up his/her mind to get a conviction, and fuck the facts, folks!
Lawyer up and shut up!! Repeat it until you believe it!
Two excellent sources for self protection.....!
Love this dude, Mass has been setting us straight for years 💪, reminds me of my uncle.
Your uncle is a lawyer?
Two guys I could sit and talk ,mainly listen to for days .... LOVE YOUR CHANNEL MR C.. PLEASE KEEP US INFORMED..
Massad is the MAN! I love to listen to his instructions on things. Talk about real-world smarts; he's the epitome of that in the world of carrying a weapon and such. Thank you, John, for this great interview. This is great information to know!!
I appreciate the information and the reasoning behind it. Thank you!
Thanks John for going straight to the well for this lifesaving drink of knowledge. Massad brings not only years of experience but also common sense to help us all better cover our ASP
Massad is a very smart man. He brought the cop perspective. Nice. I will be watching this video a lot and showing it to friends.
He missed his calling as a bass singer
ruclips.net/video/Q9Vmx8BcmdY/видео.html
🤣🤣🤣 boomboom boom boon
I wanted to take LFI 1 in 2004 & LFI 2 in 2008 but $$$ & schedule problems prevented it. Ayoob has been around years!!! More CCW users, armed officers need to learn about him.
Ppl cpme from all around just to hear me get low on the mow mow...
His calling was law enforcement officer.
The legend! Much respect to Mr. Ayoob!
As much as I honor and respect Mr Ayoob's knowledge, and experience,
My lawyer, (a former sheriff), has explained to me, that even the police don't make their documented statements for up to two weeks after a shooting.
And they get coached on how to 'articulate' everything.
His response and training for me has been: "be polite, but simply state you want to press charges, then politely explain you'll be glad to answer any further questions under counsel.
... Then shut up."
Let me add this:
I'm a union steward, and I've had to 'represent' workers at my job much the sane way.
And even WE coach people to simply request their Weingarten rights, and shut up too.
I too, have personal experience with people innocently saying even ONE fact that the investigator/supervisor tried to twist, making my job harder.
I can defend a lack of words, and politeness, more times than not, than a missed/botched detail later.
And... we all know how conveniently shoddy those body cams are.
Anyways, I'll take my risks with being quiet, over trusting an officer to do his job right/working in my favor.
"It's his job, but my right."
Thanks for the counterpoints.
I agree. I've watched videos of Officers, Lawyers, and Judges getting pulled over and they don't say anything.
Even when they get pulled over for driving intoxicated, most often, they will refuse a breathalyzer or take a field sobriety test.
Do they know something we don't know? I want to know why they refuse.
If a Defence Attorney says "don't talk"...I will listen to him.
Anyone that’s ever been questioned/interrogated knows not to say a word.
@@rifleshooterchannel208 What a fking ignorant statement. Why would he be invited for an interview? And why would people be impressed that he took the time to give his opinion. You're the one who's the blowhard.
@@rifleshooterchannel208 I wouldn't say he is a _blowhard with zero credibility_ . That's somewhat inaccurate to say. If you said he was an expert in shooting techniques, but not legal stuff surrounding the aftermath of a shooting. You would be more accurate.
Ayoob isn't a lawyer, he's a shooting expert. His advice was questionable. The more you talk, the more you incriminate yourself...even if you didn't do anything wrong. That's where I disagreed with his assessment of dealing with law enforcement after a shooting. He had some points that made sense on the surface, but I still would relay that information through a lawyer.
Great advice. Training doesn't end with a trigger pull. There's a whole process to be familiar with including the after action. The fight does not end until there's a final legal decision.
Every bullet has a lawyer attached to it.
The back of the uscca card has those exact steps in order, and after I've followed those I will repeat the last step over and over...."Officer I will cooperate 100% but first I need my attorney" SILENCE.
I wouldn't even bother saying you'll cooperate, as now you're making promises you don't intend to keep.
Well done for going back to Mas for his differing take on the matter vis-a-vis that of Marc Victor. You have dispassionately allowed two thoughtful, articulate, if opposing, view points to be compared and contrasted.
As long and as respected as this man is I would’ve thought he would never give this kind of advice he is not an attorney and it shows , make a brief statement and shut your mouth and talk to your lawyer , my God 😳
That's exactly what he said to do.
Do not make statements!
@@ASPextra he needs to stay in his lane , not a lawyer
I agree, this guy isn't a lawyer and the advice he is giving is horrible. My personal lawyer who I have paid before said this to me if I'm ever in that situation. Shut up and don't make any statements and remain silent. This guy and his so called expert advice is crazy talk.
This is true everywhere you may go. “You have the right to remain silent anything you say can and will you be used against you in the court of law”. Wait for the your mouth piece.
Still wont say anything without a lawyer present.
Agreed. I think that in a perfect world, Mas's advice isn't necessarily bad, and if you reasonably think you can follow it---go for it. But I just think it's real easy to start talking but not stop talking. Especially since cops are trained to get info from suspects and do so by pushing for it and/or appearing to be you friend. But it's not their job to be your friend. They want to get the "bad guy", and you maybe the BG to them. Also I don't trust them not to try and twist my words and screw me later. It happens all the time. I think the danger of overtalking is more than the danger of undertalking. Of course Mas would say that his method is just the right amount, but it's a gamble. I guess it's up to every individual.
Now just shutting up immediately, eh I think you can say something to the effect "he tried to kill me, he had a gun/knife/pipe, and I defended myself" then shut up from there.
@@1972glm agreed. I'd say. Here's the body. There's the gun. I need my lawyer.
Bad guys can paint a picture and you won't be in it wearing a good guy hat.
@@1972glm even if the best cop in the world showed up and he was your actual friend, he could still unintentionally misinterpret what you say and it'll be used against you later.
Another fool that ignores the expert.
Excellent advice. I'll remember that and hope I never have to use it. Thanks to you both for the video.
Massad Ayoob is an expert on guns and gun fighting and I will listen to every word he says on that subject. Period. But I will not listen to legal advice from someone who has never defended a shooting case in court. How many attorneys have you heard that said, "I could have gotten him off if he had kept his mouth shut!" A non-attorney cannot know what things will be taken out of context and twisted to be used against you by an ambitious DA. Do you trust police to remember exactly what you said and how you said it? And the most important of all, TALKING TO THE POLICE CAN'T HELP YOU! Nothing you say can be used FOR you in court! It's all hearsay! And who does he think he is, saying that somebody who panics after a gun fight should not be carrying a gun? I wouldn't want to know somebody who WASN'T shaken up after a gun fight.
Mas is a court appointed expert witness who has been on litigation team for hundreds of actual litigations and helped hundreds of real people defend their life in court.
@@ASPextra That's interesting to know, but he is an expert witness, not an attorney. Big difference.
@@thebubbacontinuum2645 so ... you're a lawyer. How much did your law school teach you specifically about "Deadly Force law"? Did they teach you about the doctrine of competing harms/doctrine of necessity? Are you familiar with the concept of "An Affirmative Defense"? I suggest you take one of LFI courses. Massad will teach more about deadly force than you will ever learn at law school.
@@ASPextra Are you also aware that he has been impeached on the witness stand while testifying in court as a witness? He was made a fool of while involved in court room testimony against the FBI years ago. Many of his articles written for the gun rags, "The Ayoob Files", were largely fabricated and less than factual. This plus his self enamored behavior of which I am personally aware of, leave me less than impressed. He does do a great job of marketing himself though!
@@marctrundle1416 Where can I read about this case? I read "FBI" and immediately think "scumbags", but I'd be interested in knowing the whole story.
Very very helpful! Thank You!
A living legend. If your attacker is dead, you can't say "I"ll testify against him". Dead men don't go to trial.
It establishes that you weren't trying to kill him and once he stopped attacking you stopped shooting, using what you believed to be appropriate force.
Sometimes it’s not obvious they are dead. I would think you911 call also request Medical.
@@sc666666 Agreed.
Anything you say CAN AND WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU in a court of law. IT CAN NOT HELP YOU.
As an attorney, its to hard to give advice that at least keeps all your defenses open wo knowing a specific fact pattern. For example, if the government can’t make its case, then saying nothing is the right answer.
Personally, if I were in a defensive situation, it would be important for the police to know you were afraid and took the most reasonable course of action you could come up with.
Ayoob knows what he’s doing but I don’t think this advice can be applied universally.
I think he gives principles and not a script, and for that, I think it has value.
@@ASPextra
Why are y’all at a church talking about guns?
@@travelinman482 why not?
@@Vergoso_42
Um, Jesus was against ‘living by the sword’ (aka the modern day AR rifle).
@What saith the scripture?
Keep lying to yourself.
Mass has the best input. Excellent. Thanks for the info.
I understand where Massad's thought process is coming from. Though in actual practice the likelihood of someone saying what he recommended versus self incriminating themselves seems to be very risky. You are already in compromised mental state after a shooting, yet you have the ability to coherently explain the situation rationally? I think very few people would be able to do so safely, without incriminating themselves. I think it's best to say nothing.
Agreed. You are more likely to say something that will be detrimental to your case then helpful. We are not lawyers and certainly not competent to navigate the legal realm of giving a statement or answering questions without counsel.
Nice, I met Massad Ayoob in 2011, great guy with a wealth of Knowledge!!!
What are cops told to do when they're involved in a shooting? I think we should do that.
They ask for their union rep. Police Unions are far more powerful and connected than defense attorneys, unfortunately.
@@Scientist_Salarian Fortunately, not unfortunately. Cops risk it all for us for very little money. They deserve more.
Public pressure gets them fired for no reason.
It's a good starting point, but there is one big difference between them and you: their colleagues are *not trying* to get them locked up. They're trying to find ways to get them off the hook. .So all they have to do is avoid saying anything incriminating, and it will generally be interpreted in the most favorable light. You can't assume that they'll interpret your actions in the same light.
@J K. WRONG. Their job isn’t even in the top ten if dangerous jobs. They should be held to the highest standards. They should be severely punished for indiscretions. You’re either a cop or very naive.
This channel had been recommended to me previously and this is the first video that I've watched. And while I was pretty interested in the subject and the person being interviewed, I can't even get through half the video without being inundated with ads every 90-120 seconds. I don't see a reason to try another video from this channel as I'm not even going to finish this one.
That’s on RUclips not me.
Thanks for uploading this for us to see. Another issue that wasn't discussed is obvious to us, but just not covered. Your concealed carry permit. CCW permit holders are some of the most lawful citizens in the country. They break the laws LESS than LE. The arriving LE personnel need to be told, and reinforced, that you have a lawful concealed weapon, and that you had a serious threat and you had to deal with it. You will cooperate in any way necessary, but wish to seek guidance from your attorney.
I really like the concise statement you advise someone to make.
Nope, listen to your lawyer not him
I think Mass is telling us what he would do and framing it as what we should do. I don't think he realizes the difference between us and him. The guy is a professional orator with many decades of experience as an expert witness, firearms instructor, and police officer. He's well spoken, and extremely seasoned and intelligent. But as humans we are terrible judges of other people's knowledge versus our own, and this is a blindspot for everyone, including him. He is pulling from experience of particular cases he was involved with and thinking "ahh it would have been easier for this guy if he had done xyz at the scene!" but then not ALSO thinking about "hmmm, what if he talked more and said THIS, then he'd be FUGGED". You can be cooperative without saying a darn thing, don't be belligerent with the cops, listen to their verbal commands and enjoy your free ride downtown for questioning with consul present.
All he has to do is show his badge to get off a self defense charge
Mass was my teacher in the 80s when I had a carry permit in NYC just had it not renewed last year This man is an Icon in the world of self defense my courses at LFI were invaluable but in those days there was one criteria for self defense and Mass always said so many are in jail because they didn’t respect the Avoidably aspect of the statute an essential ingredient to a sane self defense law leave it to Florida and others to remove the avoidably aspect of the law Stand your ground means goad someone into an act that qualifies as worthy of deadly force and use it what a perversion of self defense this is thanks Mass for making this so obvious to me
i bookmarked this video and plan on watching it at least once everyday until i have it memorized.
Me too.
Lots to memorize in a 12 minute video...
He is right in the specific contexts that he’s clarified.
While I agree with the sentiment I can't get over the fact that I need to make sure I tell the police enough to make sure the "Professionals" personal bias is satisfied to the point that he can function in an unbiased "professional" manner
It's not a personal bias, it's a professional one. As a teacher, I don't believe everything a kid tells me about what happens at their home, or why their homework looks like it was written by mommy. It's not that I don't trust the kid, I just know that it's human nature to protect oneself and one's ego - just as your comment suggests, actually.
Excellent. Thank you.
I would respectfully disagree for a few reasons:
1) All that nice stuff you explained to the officer probably will not be admissible.
2) If your story now changes at all, you have just compounded a problem that was easily avoidable if you had just shut up.
3) You are going to get brought in regardless.
4) You are not on trial right there on the scene! The responding officer is not pressing the charges! He is, generally, taking notes and controlling the situation. You have rights for a reason; use them!
Good points, well put. :)
Thank You Professor!
Yes and no. If the stakes are high, you simply say Ill answer your questions in the presence of an attorney. Leave it at that. You can say he's the perp, Im the victim and nothing more.
I feel like this advice rings true to the person giving it - from the perspective of an old school police officer. I think it’s important to take the time and discuss this aspect of exercising one’s right to carry or own a firearm. But I also think its important to remember that it is also your right to stay silent.
The police can think all they want about your guilt or innocence, but it is not the police who have the power to make that decision. Murderers cooperate all the time with police investigations and put themselves in jail. Police are trained to talk you into giving up your rights and no amount of blue striped flags in your yard or on your vehicle is going to change that.
However one chooses to act in the aftermath of a self defense incident is entirely a personal decision so thank you for taking the time to share this video and bring the discussion forward to the firearms and self defense community. What ever you believe is the best way to react for you personally, I think the most important take away, like with anything else in the realm of firearms and self defense, is to assess what’s in front you, process it, and make a decision that you will be comfortable with for the rest of your life because there is no taking back bullets, or words.
It’s amazing and also outrageous of the amount of Steps and training and guidance good civilians take to defend themselves in the aftermath of a shooting but But criminals don’t think twice about any laws. Their mind fit is get what you want by any means necessary.
Now they’re wearing body armor to do robberies and mass shootings and Civilians get punished with stricter gun laws
Bob, I am glad to see you with Massad Ayoob. I have trusted him for a few decades.
I was taught "I was in fear for my life, I want to talk to my lawyer" is the only thing you say. I like Mas's more in depth tutorial here.
Yeah, that statement isn't magic words for sure.
I disagree with Massad on this. The Police don't decide your fate. The Prosecutor, Judge and Jury do. IMO you're better off lawyering up than saying something to convince the Police on scene you're innocent. It's not really their opinion that matters. By saying things to them you could hurt the opinions of those people who DO matter.
Got to remember Massad is talking from cops' perspective as he is (was?) one
Why, because you need MORE ways to incriminate yourself?
@@codemonkeymojo Ding ding ding. The cops never decide to prosecute, the DA,AG does. Focus on the long game, not making friends. Terrible advice.
WOW WHAT A GREAT TOPIC!! IM YELLING SO HOPEFULLY YOU SEE THIS BETTER!! HE TALKS SO MUCH ABOUT THE SAME THINGS BUT THIS IS GREAT
As a woman I really appreciate your videos, I’ve been wanting to get a concealed carry license, but need training before I feel comfortable carrying. I have learned so much from you, I’m looking forward to more hands on training, but in the meantime I’ll be watching all ads to show my support of all the effort you put into your videos :) Thank you so much!!
ANYTHING you say CAN & WILL be used AGAINST you.
I do know this. Detectives are trained at interrogation which includes manipulative tactics. As the shooter, you are the primary suspect. Their primary motivation is getting a conviction which may or not lead to the truth. They can lie about having 'evidence' to scare you into making a false statement and saying something stupid that isn't even true. Agreed to be the first one to call 911, mention there's been a defensive shooting, and fully comply with getting arrested having the gun on the ground and hands in the air upon arrival. Probably after an incident, there will be too many emotions to say anything calculated. Just let them know you want to execute the right to remain silent and need representation from an attorney. Being 'cooperative' doesn't mean blabbing away to them and exerting your right to counsel doesn't make you guilty. My thoughts on this anyways.
Always impressed by his knowledge
Pass. I'll be polite, I'll be courteous, but I will say as little as humanly possible to cops.
Having been a street cop and investigator... Not saying anything to the initial responding officer is a horrible idea. After you say I defended my life because he tried to kill me, then shut up. Never talk to police inside an interrogation room without a lawyer. Telling responding officers enough to know you're the good guy is a must tho
There's zero chance you're talking yourself out of anything without a LEOSA card. There's no way you can guide the investigation to your advantage by talking. The risk of saying even the most benign things is huge. You will not make a proper statement when you're in extreme stress that goes with self defence. There's a reason why self defence lawyers do not give Massads advice.
@@JumaiPL ehh bullshit... I've been in plenty of super high stress situations, including weapons and suspects and dead people and everything in between.. I'll be just fine. What I'm not gonna do is stand there like a dumbass over a dead body and say nothing other than "I want a lawyer". But hey, I'll do me, you do you. Someone who's never had huge adrenaline dumps on a regular basis would likely be better off just keeping their mouth shut. Idk. Last time I was involved (as just a regular guy) in a life or death situation, I looked around and there were 3 people just standing there watching and I was the only one moving and doing anything so you're likely correct.
@@WideAwakeHuman I can't tell you your experience is wrong, there's a good chance you're so experienced with stress you can do fine. The reason I've started with that is, there's a ton of bodycam videos that show on duty cops get into 100% justified shootings and even they can't hold their shit together- they start to ramble, move around etc, they exhibit the typical adrenaline dump behavior.
If I ever get in a justified shooting, I'm taking the county holiday over saying anything but invocation of rights.
@@JumaiPL yeah I'm likely in a fairly unique situation where my experience + the fact that I know most of the law enforcement in my area probably makes me feel different. But I know I've been a responding officer to a self defense shooting and the shooter just said a quick sentence about what happened and then asked if he could call his lawyer. If he had refused to even tell me he was defending himself and just said he wanted a lawyer I wouldn't have known he was anything other than a murderer. But you're probably right, if you can't keep your mouth shut just say you want to cooperate but want to talk to a lawyer first. I don't think we really disagree about it
I’ll follow legal advice
So you're calling your attorney before you call 911?
Peter Mahoney um, no. The legal advice I’ve been given is call 911 first. Tell them certain needed info, hang up. Call attorney.
@@petergunn1701 As Ben said, immediately after.
1). Call 911- it’s recording while ringing - keep your mouth shut
2). Once they answer - give name -location - you were ATTACKED - Yiunwere FORCED to defend yourself- you need 2 ambulances (minimum- 1 for you and 1 for bad guy) - you need the police - HANG UP if safe to do so - immediately call your attorney
3) once police arrive - ID yourself - If firearm is used advise what direction you fired- that way they can make sure no innocents have been hit and need medical attention.
4) politely advise them that you will be more than happy to cooperate with investigation and answer any and all questions......once you have met with your attorney - INVOKE YOUR RIGHTS!!
Everyone has the right to remain silent most don’t have the ability. It’s a natural reaction to explain or defend their actions. This is NOT the time or place for that.
Thank you, sir, for your help. Immensely appreciate it. I would have been one of the EMS with the guerney and ambo attempting to help the injured. Sorry.
Mr Ayoob is such a legend. John is on his way too.
Honestly, I think they're both badasses 😁
Hope John never NDs into a range line roof in front of a crowd. Love Ayoob for decades but oof.
A legendary idiot.
@@yoyo762 yes,., yes you are.
I Really appreciate this one!
I don't see anything in a Miranda script about anything you say will be used for your defense. It's called a Miranda WARNING for a reason.
@ maybe you haven't seen that cops now have to wear a body camera.
@ so are you intimately familiar with the use of force laws then? What's your stance on Affirmative defense as it relates to the use of force shootings? Have you also heard of the doctrine of competing harms or the doctrine of necessity? (they are the same thing just different terms used in different states). Are you familiar with the Bernhard Getz case? I believe as many others do that Bernhard Getz's biggest mistake is going to a guilty man's lawyer. A lawyer that is famous for getting guilty men off the hook. I honestly believe it's because of his choice of lawyers that Bernhard had to spend almost a year on Rikers Island.
Exactly! They tell you anything you say CAN and WILL be used against you in a court of law. The deck is already stacked against you before you even go to court.
@@richb.4374 the word you should have highlighted is against.........notice nothing about anything you say might help you? That's cause it won't
Great job, both of you. Thanks.
Great content.
I train with a five-time champion for SASS, and his advice is very similar.
Cooperate with the officer on scene. Your statement should be: 'I was forced to shoot because...'
Point out evidence on scene. Make no further comments.
Great advice.
Massad Ayoob is a police officer.
Make it as easy as possible for your lawyer say nothing.
Thank you Mas and John for sharing this video.
I say ditto!!! to a few of the other comments on (somehow) getting Mas, Terry and
Marc all together for a conversation on this subject. That would be a great video!
Thank you again Mas and John! 😃👍
Keep yourselves safe!
Randy
This was one of the biggest takeaways I had from Mas' MAG20 - Armed Citizen’s Rules of Engagement course. Highly recommended for anyone who carries a gun!
Been there, done that. In 1980, I was involved in a violent incident wherein I was attacked, and I defended myself. My assailant needed medical attention when I finished with him. I made certain I was the first to contact law enforcement, and when they arrived, I gave a brief statement of the incident, looked the officer in the eyes, and asked, " What can I do to help you get this monster off the streets?" Nothing really came of it all, but the incident report did indicate that I was the victim and no one went to jail.
A friend chastised me, telling me that I should never have spoken to the officers without a lawyer present ! Three years later, this same friend was involved in a similar incident. He, however, did not contact authorities. His assailant did, claiming victimhood. When the authorities arrived, my friend refused to speak to them. My friend was later arrested, what with having been charged for assault and battery over the matter, and he served a short stent in the county jail. Being his friend, THIS TIME I did not say anything. LoL
Civilians are not Leo's, they are under no obligation to make a public safety statement concerning the shooting. Exercise your right to remain silent until you've talked with your attorney. Massad is giving you what the police want to encounter and what they'd like to hear when arriving at the scene. It does not benefit the shooter in anyway, first impressions be dammed. The crime scene is not the court and the ofcrs are not the DA/ Judge and or Jury. They cannot and will not adjudicate anything there. The detectives will investigate, submit the facts, void of personal opinions to the DA or CA for further action. Remain silent, short of identifying yourself, the serialized firearm will more than likely be registered to the shooter if required by their home state.
Some people just want to do things the hard way and hope for the best. You just need to make sure that the facts present to you in the fractions of a second at the moment of the incident are equally clear to investigators or else... You get stuck with what everyone else says.
Hey John, when/where were you in Navy? Nuke EM (SS) here
So don’t tell the officer about the security camera that clearly captured event , just wait until you see lawyer & the video is looped over?
& never tell officer where perp threw his weapon/mask or other evidence, wait to tel lawyer 48 hours later?
"void of personal opinions" That is not even remotely true, there will be personal observations about the shooter, including his demeanor, state of mind willingness to cooperate etc. etc. .
If you are uncooperative when the cops arrive, you can be sure you will leave the scene in cuffs in the back of the paddy wagon. If you are friendly and cooperative, it's possible that you will be released on your own recognizance, and asked to come in later to make a statement.
Much respect Mas. Thank you for sharing your insights.
The problem with revealing some information is that it jeopardizes your right to say nothing. You have a right to say nothing, but even in a courtroom or grand jury hearing you must invoke your right not to incriminate yourself immediately and at the outset. Then it is up to the judge to provide you with immunity so that you can testify without fear of prosecution. The ONLY information you should reveal at a shooting is to inform the investigating officer of any individuals at large who may be armed as a result of your incident. Then invoke your right to speak to counsel. It is not an investigating officers decision to prosecute. It is the prosecutors. When you begin to speak about the incident, you invite the investigating officer to continue to question you, which gives you a chance to say the wrong thing. It is far more difficult for your defense counsel to undo something you said, than to explain to a jury why you invoked your right to speak to counsel. In a high stress time recalling your exact story later is extremely difficult and any discrepancy in the statements made at the scene and then changed later will get you convicted.
Great points and info!
1. Establish active dynamic. What did he do to FORCE you to defend yourself.
2. Reinforce. Make yourself the victim. "I will testify against him".
3. Point out the evidence.
4. Point out the witnesses.
5. Shut up. You will have my full cooperation after I consult with my attorney.
Miss the first 4 steps, all of them can be easily contradicted, twisted and used against you. Say nothing.
This is so important, thanks so much for sharing!
Although I respect Massad Ayoob greatly, I will have to greatly disagree with this line of reasoning. The realities of the legal system is, no matter what you say to the police cannot be used to help you in court!!! Under the rules of evidence, any statement you make to the police cannot be used for you, Only AGAINST YOU!!! Even if you provide information to the police about self defense, there may be other witnesses who says otherwise, even honestly by seeing from another angle many times even car accidents can have three differant statements as to who is at fault. Let alone a shooting. By having your attonrey explain the situation to the police, they can get their information and the statement cannot be used against you because of heresay under the rules of evidence. This allows to the ability to not say anything in the heat of the moment that WILL be used against you in the court of law. Remember, even police may have a misrecollection honestly of what you say, they are only human. By using a lawyer to speak for you, this gives you time to slow down, recollect your thoughts, anylize your actions, and a more concise story will appear along with the eveidence. Because if you just blasted someone, your heart is pumping, your mad, angry, confused, fight or flight, you almost always will make a statement that some element will be used to prosecute you when by being silent and getting an attorney (They have to provide you with one), this takes away much of the falacies of human conditioning when it comes to memory. Example if you cooperate and tell what you think is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then a witness who saw from a diiferant angle says it didn't happen that way, even if the evidence at the scene may be ambivilant, it is still enough to charge you and the prosecutor can get you on the stand and say that you are a lyer if you are trying to defend yourself or if you don't take the stand say you are a lyer and we have a witness to prove otherwise. In this way, your lawyer can take a look at you, see the evidence and talk to the witnesses to get them to corroborate eveidence if there is a witness. And if there are other perpatrators, you want them to run, run, run, because those are less witnesses on the scene against you. Your attorney will tell the police about them and they will most likely be caught and nine times out of ten will tell on themselves and each other. ALWAYS have an attorney present if you defend yourself because you may give the police just enough to say it wasn't self defense and the other way around is they are going to charge you no matter what and it is better when you go to court as a defendant and you can tear apart the witnesses stories, and the evidence to go along with it. At least then you will be treated more fairly and have an opportunity to tell your side of the story, REMEMBER, ASKING FOR A LWAYER CANNOT BE USED AGAINST YOU, BUT ANYTHING YOU SAY CAN AND WILL AND CANNOT BE USED FOR YOU AS IT IS HERESAY UNDER THE RULES OF EVIDENCE!!! I know, I have been through this before!!!
Sadly, it seems you need to say it again (and LOUDLY!) for the people in back! "Under the rules of evidence, any statement you make to the police cannot be used for you, Only AGAINST YOU!!!"
This is not an opinion, folks, this is fact!
Of course any prosecution won't use your statement but as Mas said, it will most likely be on a body or dash cam and can certainly be used by your defense....provided it doesn't get 'lost'
Heaven forbid this happen to me but I will take your advice and shut up until a lawyer shows up. Ive read your piece over and over, makes sense to me. Thank you very much.
Well in car accidents not my fault I always give report of what happened firmly and clesely on scene and the physical evidence that supports their fault not mine
@@glenncaswell9062 Lost??? The police wouldn't let that happen would they????
Look at all the experts here. I'm impressed...
Never talk to the cops on the scene. NEVER. The responding officers are NOT the officers who investigate the scene, nor are they the prosecutor who can cut a deal or look at all the evidence. DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS WITHOUT A LAWYER. This guy is wrong.
Do you know who "this guy" is?
More Mass!!! please. So much to learn from him.
A great teacher.
Thanks