Adding Additional Sockets To An Existing Ringmain. Banter!!!
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- Additional sockets in a small bedroom. New iPad software and Wago boxes under floors.
New tools
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This video is for entertainment purposes only please do not attempt to copy or recreate this video.
Currently in college studying level 2 , so its a really handy looking at on-site work. Well explained, thanks.
I’m doing that now, how did u get on?
@@maxtv8591 went really well thanks, lots of studying and late nights but worth it
Great upload again Chris! I actually quite like filling in my own chases, I did a rewire in an empty property last year and before I left I made two big tubs of bonding, PVA'd everything and went for it. The plasterers were happy and the job looked all the better for it.
This video showing you doing the testing etc is great. More of that please
That CK tool you showed in the beginning is mainly for SWA cables. I’ve been using it for 6 years now and it definitely speeds up the process instead of using a hacksaw. Worth the money. Never tried it on pipe before
Just because it’s older tech, doesn’t mean it’s “dodgy” work, right?
that is a proper installation from start to finish enjoyed the video.
another great video chris. always look forward to seeing new and old installations you do.
Haha! Another not-too-subtle reference to Ducati man! Great Easter egg.
Andy Kirwan check the whiteboard in the van at the start
That horn bleeping the swearing out made me jump!😮
Same here, I nearly dropped my phone!! 😂
Same here it's midnight and I have headphones on full.
You know it’s good practice to fly lead the back box. The wago boxes make life easy.
Why do it if its not mandatory? Wastes time and money
Hi, obviously safety comes first but as a competent diy’er I should be able to do what I want in my own house! It’s MY house!! Inspectors, regulations & certificates drove me crazy after a recent kitchen extension!!!
If your house burns down due to DIY wiring and they ask whos wired this new extension then you won’t have a leg to stand on and your insurance is null and void.
Nice and professional job well done
I like the way you go the extra mile and do proper finishing of the walls. Quite a few out there would barely fill, let alone actually finish it off.
You can't be serious! That was some of the worst work I've ever seen.
Keep up the good work!
As a Dutch subscriber I am still amazed at how UK electrics are done as how you build your homes.
Interesting to hear how you guys do things ?
@@strongerandwiser2023 We start off with a code called NEN1010 which is made up by a group of 'Industry experts' and which in itself doesn't have a legal status.
95% of house have a single phase 35A capacity or a 3 phase 23A/phase capacity coming in.
Main fuse > meter > fuse board. No maximum of groups except for 4 groups per RCD. Maximum per single phase group is 16A. 3 phase is usually used for cookers and such and also fused 16A.
Wire is 2,5mm2 for brown, blue, green/yellow. 1,5mm2 black is used for switching light and so on.
Because most houses are totally made of concrete, we run single wires in pvc pipes to a central box which is usually a lighting point. From there it goes to switches, sockets, back to light and can branch of to another central socket.
Do you get a bare idea with this short discription? You can put 'huis bedraden' in the search function. Should give you some results.
@@Richard1977 Are you at 230-250V there? (we're meant to be 230V officially but most houses I see around 240-245V at board on my tester!)
Do you not have any electric hobs/showers/immersion heaters? Here an electric shower often wants about 45A circuit to itself, 32-40A to oven with electric hob, 16A for the immersion heater... having just 32A for the house just won't do the job in many homes (although for a small flat or apartment using gas hob/heating and shower supplied by the hot tank it would probably do).
@@Mattja1 Hi Matt,
Sorry for the late response. We are remodeling our house and combine that with a lot of appointments....
Anyway, we are mostly natural gas powered. So cooking, hot water, warming up our houses and so on is done with natural gas.
Therefore we really haven't needed heavy supplies in the past to get things done. Most power hungry machines used to be a washing machine, dryer and electric oven (all around 10A). Some houses have a small 10-15 liter close-in boiler for a single tap which is also around 10A.
So we didn't really more than 25A-35A single phase.
But now, with the energy transition because of the environment and because we are running out of natural gas (not really, but the extraction of natural gas presents problems like earth quakes and sinking of soil so 'they' decided to abandon natural gas) we need to totally switch to electricity in something like 30 years.
Although that may sound as 'enough time', calculations have already shown that it's an almost impossible schedule.
With that they also want us to change to electric-only vehicles (from 2030 you can only buy electric vehicles in the Netherlands). That also puts extra demand on our distribution network (which is already on its max in some regions) so I am pretty sure that the deadlines won't be met. Apart from the biggest question: Who is going to pay for all that? Because we are talking billions and billions of Euro's to get even close to what they want.
There's a lot more to this like expected power outages but I want to keep it as simple as possible.
Your a role model for us Level 2 chaps ! Thank Mate
You should use both cpc terminals in socket-outlets because if 1 of them comes out the accessory is still earthed by the other one
Thanks for showing us the chasing fill process
tip when filling you put on one way and off the other so you did up and down let it cure a bit then take it off side to side the idea of a PVA mix isnt to make things stick its to stop the moisture out of the plaster therefore falling out and cracking
I would use a cable snake so I don't fuck the walls
Nice filling round the sockets. Waggos and box very neat solution. New sockets well tried and tested. Very professional approach to job.
Nice one Chris , have you ever tried Gyproc Easyfill for doing those little chases around boxes and conduit , goes on up to 50 mm thick in one go without sagging and dries in 30 mins ready to sand....
I don’t earth back boxes neither , as you said there’s no need too....😜
cheers mate....👍
Easyfill is a dream to sand as well. Nice and soft and easy to get a fine finish as well
@@anightin yeah, but DUST! ;-)
1:30
Nah That spider is out of order
Well done sir.a most excellent job.keep up the great work and videos.
Always good practice to earth back boxes mate regardless. Also the wagos u have used are only rated to 24amps if I’m correct.
Lights also have back boxes innit
Wera products are pretty decent sold a lot of them in my days in the tool trade. Well worth the money.
Shit myself when that first horn went off !!! 😨
A good honest video 👍👍 let us know how the rest goes mate and many thanks for taking the time to do these. Great help
we dont torque up switches and sockets, because london fire brigade does not have a problem with them being installed, they only have problems with badly installed mains boards, but who knows in the future we may only be allowed to install metal switches and sockets. if the house wiring was that bad why did the kitchen electrician even work in the place, its obvious to anyone hes modified the existing, then he did his testing, i.e the bang test, then hes hot to trot. And if its like when i go to similar jobs the customer can never remember who they were. Nice to see part p working well.
I doubt there will be a requirement for metal switches and sockets, DIYers usually get scared at the CU but they're often happy to mess around with switches and sockets, unaware that they shouldn't be putting metal switches on the old lighting circuit that lacks a cpc.
@@Mattja1 sorry that bit, was a bit of a piss take at how the country has to jump as soon as London fire brigade demand action.
And it's easier to deal with the symptoms rather than the actual cause, i.e the dicks who can't install them correctly, and take the money and run.
Wow that’s a lot of work to have to take out the carpet and underground , I guess it’s on how houses codes run , here we got almost all electric on the ceiling running just all other cables that have sub panels externally. When you guys do this it’s more like a remodeling right you got to have not only electricians but painters .
Hopefully they will make wago type connection on the back of the socket
Love it. Might be shite for doing 2 or 3 wires into one hole though, unless they had maybe 3 ports per hole available, but that sound like extra money which ain't likely for a lot of sectors considering how cheap a socket currently is
You get push in connections on German products. Not available to in the UK (at least widely)
Here in the USA we have Wago styled insertion sockets on our outlets.
MK do them
MK do them
Those Wera Allen head wrenches are fantastic!
What reference method would you assign to that circuit? I've had people say twin and earth under floor is B but OSG page 65 onwards says otherwise.
I wouldn't want that decorator decorating my house if he thinks that filling was pukka.
I think he was just being nice 😂
I used to use bonding without PVA and skim on top. I used a trowel for the bonding and a float trowel for the skim. Smooth as a baby's bum!
Totally agree Simon especially if using Toupret, decorator Chris swears by it, when he's finished never know wasn't the original surface before us sparks get to it, I personally used some of the sticky orange mesh tape and pink grip before I roughed chases in, for a mate , I didn't want it cracking away, like I've seen in past, overkill maybe
I myself always link the back box to the socket with 4mm earth wire because homeowners loosen sockets screws when decorating . you must be aware of the amateurs.
Its for armour cable not for slicing pipe up... ;)
He knows what it's for, he was messing about.
In Australia you're never more than 1m away from at least 1 spider.
Wilbert Birdner I tried to look for that red back spider when I was in Australia, the only spiders 🕷 I have seen in oz, only when a park warden pointed em out. Nice place is oz 😄☀️, just wish the uk would make it more difficult to do electrical DIY,
It would be cool if the iPad connected to the scanner with Bluetooth or something and filled in the values for you.
It would just tell you which wires to connect to, press test and then it inputs the data and tells you the next wires to clamp onto and test and fills in the results and so on.
I have always been told to earth the back box even with a fixed lug, as its an exposed conductive part, if it wasn't earthed and you pulled the faceplate forward and unknowingly damaged the cables, or maybe the cables were already damaged, the back box could now be live whilst you work on it without you knowing?
Should you be pulling the face plate with the power on?
It's good practice but only a recommendation, I think the argument is you shouldn't be removing the socket whilst live but everyone obviously does.
Shouldn’t be working live with the faceplate off 😂
Pipe down Fred
My lecturer said that exposed and extraneous conductive parts must be earthed. Fair enough. But then he said to consider the back box.....
Is it exposed?
No, it's buried in the wall.
Is it extraneous?
No, it's a part of the electrical installation.
So therefore does it need to be earthed......No.
You're working hard mate.
Hi Chris,
Hope you're alright.
I need your advise on something... I'm relocating one double socket and installing another on the other side of the bed, can I put the two old legs of the ring circuit and the two new legs going out to the new socket in the same Wago junction box?
I’m changing an old dimmer switch to a newer one just to freshen the room up. In my house I have the old black (neutral) red (live) and earth cables. When I took the dimmer off I forgot to look where the cables went. Where do I put the cables back in? Does the live go into the COM line and neutral into either L1 or L2?
You should get an electrically qualified person to do it, based on your level of understanding. (no offence).
Red com
Black L1 (switch-line)
Earths in the correct location / connector blocks mate
You don’t need someone who’s “electrically qualified” to do this
The requirement is someone who is electrically competent.
Hi, I am looking to do something similar but just to understand.
From the first socket, the one near the door, you will run a cable to the socket from left corner and then from there another cable to the other side. And from the last socket you will run another cable to the first socket near the door? That is the ring system?
Chris, may be wrong mate but I'm sure 773 wago's are only rated up to 24A if not I would love to know if they go up to 32A I would start using them !
Half the current is carried by one leg of the ring so installing a 24amp Wago is perfectly acceptable.
@@Cjrelectrical CJR ELECTRICAL a ring final is wired in parallel with cables being the same size so = 5mm so we reference below size to a 4mm CSA for cable reference. One does not carry but both do as they are in parallel.
Hey! You replied to me on the wagos figure of 8; thank you; not that youd get a mad extra resistance off those leads; I just find wagos to be the most reliable
Superb job sir.well done.
You should put your ring final cpcs in the different earth terminals as in case a terminal comes loose you would lose both cps. If you have them seperate you always have an earth connection.
No continuity then though??
Hi
Thank you for your video, but can show us how you did the wiring under the floor
Thank you
1:33 *ewewewewew* That's a big spoodler (errrm spider)
What ear protection are you using for chasing walls, I just got myself 3M 27 rating (apparently it covers range up to 90db) but I haven't tried it yet, would that be enough?
ive moved into a house and i own it now. one bedroom has just one double socket and is on a plaasterboard wall. i want to fit maybe 3 more along the wall for my office space, PC, printer, speakers etc. so i imagine something like a fused spur and then 3 double sockets. is this something I need signed off or a certificate for, if so I get a spark to do it.
Does Adding sockets such as this in the UK, require signing off by an electrician ? Or is this allowed as a DIY install ? Did some internet research but not clear what the refs are....thanks
It's definitely a bold green
Good work!
Good relaxed video Chris
I hope you covered up the Moses basket looks new wouldn’t want a newborn to be sleeping in dusty one! Otherwise great vid!
Yes was moved into the office and other rooms where work wasn’t.
Subscribed... Less forced swearing than Thomas Nagy..
The horn made me laugh! Plenty of other trades like that! Notice you use the "cheese wire" method of stripping the outer of T&E? I used to get bollocked for that! I couldn't see anything wrong with it personally but my mentors were a bit "old school" (going back a few years you'll appreciate!) Keep up the good work!
Ring mains are so old school. 20amp radials are so much easier to adapt and test
I don't know why they don't install a seperate circuit for each room and put each on a 20 amp rcbo for maximum safety and minimal outage. Why bother with split load consumer units, rings any of that. Fuk code, common sense.
You can do that, code has nothing to do with it
Damn, I was told I didn't need to PVA the bricks.. worried it's all going to fall out now.
Okay I won't twist the Earth CPC's anymore....
Nice work
Massive thumbs up for torx on sockets!!!👍
Torques
We are not supposed to pin the earth live or the neutral together no more the wires are supposed to be inserted as they are with the first trimmings
Thanks for sharing your videos, nice to pick up some good tips, thanks again
That “pipe slice” looks to me like a armoured cable sheath remover but I cloud be wrong
SIMUL8TOR it is for armoured
Looks like the CK armoured cable stripper to me. Thomas Nagy was using one on a load of armoured a couple of videos back. DSS Electrical as well.
It’s the CK Armour Slice. It’s for SWA and it’s brilliant if you know how to use it!
my predition instead of torque screwdrivers for sockets, they will just change them out for a push fit connection, like on a downlighter.
I’ve been waiting for push fit sockets for 40 years
Good to see a sparky take some pride in the filling, be good to see what the finish was like though
I ❤️ T.N 😂
Aww I bet he loves you too :-D
If you payed attention its behind him in the van
@@benwoodcraft9403 I did pay attention dude, that's why I replied ;-)
Lucky British people! You get 32 amps for a ring and i get 32 amps for the whole house.
@@AndyK.1 Okay so I live in Hungary and the electricity supplier is eon. The setup is like this: you have got an mcb which is the main fuse {the owner can turn that off to isolate the property} above it the electricity meter and the fuseboard. Now my problem is that the "main mcb" of ours is single phase B32. But it can get still worse. In a new property they give only 16 AMPS AS A NORMAL. IT'S CRAZY AND SHIT! Upgrade £15/amp. In my case the fuseboard is sadly missing. The whole house is on a 32 amp ring WITH 27 AMP ALUMINIUM CABLES (except the kitchen which is wired in 4mil copper. No other circuits not even an rcd. Now i'm an electrician myself. I live with my parents. Old people are Conservative. They said that they don't want a rewire no matter how hard i try to convince them.
In today’s modern houses the don’t require electric heating 32amps is all you need, my house is on a 40amp mcb,
I have had a energy monitor on my home and the maximum demand has only been 5kw.
Same in NL. 32A or 40A breaker single phase, bullocks.
How did you feed the cables under the floor across the joists? Also, did you just have the cabling resting on the plasterboard when running along the joists? I’ve only ever done wiring during a big house renovation when all the plasterboard was off the ceiling and there were strict regulations on wire clips and positioning. Is there an exception for retrofitting where access is limited?
Yes of course there’s a reference method for touching plasterboard get it clipped where practicable to do so.
Thanks, good to know!
Chris 773 are classed at 24amps is that ok on ring F/S
What happens if you connect it all like shown here and that is not a ring main(circuit) Cheers.
not being a sparky I would love to know what you do when faced with laminated floors and tiled kitchens ?.
Sparkys try to find a different route. Maybe a different room with carpet, etc. If not then they could try fishing it through, last step would be lifting floor
Hi Chris mate I need help on how to wire up a basic 2.5mm ring socket. How do you run both cables and where to can you do a video on running the cables. You block it out every time
I would have put that crib out of the way if I was the owner.
I thought if taking more than 1 socket off existing socket it had to be done on a fused spur?
Another great video, why do you use a Wago box instead of a junction box? What is the advantages?
Hi. What make and type of chisel do you use on your sds?
Another great video mate 👍
Great video mate 👍🏻
From the USA here, when running multiple sockets we would pigtail or run them in parallel. This way if one socket goes down the down stream sockets are not affected. I'm going to Italy to rewire a house soon, are parallel circuits not done for a reason with 220v? Or maybe I'm not seeing something here?
Multiple sockets are always run in parallel in the UK. Maybe you are confused by the term 'ring' which refers to a ring final circuit. This doesnt mean the sockets are wired in series - they are in parallel but the final socket is also wired back to the consumer unit. The point being that you then essentially have two radial circuits with split load and can therefore use a smaller sized cable. As far as I know, this method of installing socket circuits is peculiar to the UK so I wouldnt assume that they do it in Italy. I guess you will have to look into their codes and regs anyway.
Pigtailing isn't done as standard on UK sockets (that means bringing your neutral from the socket to a wire nut or connector with the incoming and outgoing neutrals right?) as our sockets are bigger than US ones and the terminals are designed to accept two conductors which are typically 2.5mm^2 (awg 14) and so there is nothing in our regulations to state that you cant rely on the socket to maintain continuity.
@@jakeg12345 ok, I see what you are saying. I'm not an electrician and really only applying mechanical knowledge here. Pigtailing here in the US, the load, neutrals and the ground are wire nutted to incoming and outgoing.
Wouldn't having the socket create the parallel increases the chance that any non performing socket may cut all downstream flow of electricity?
If I pigtail to the socket would this create an unsafe condition due to the either socket design or Europe's use of 220v? Thanks for the info, all I want is a safe well performing service..
@@johndallara3257 Its possible but then in the UK socket circuits are mostly wired as a ring so each socket is essentially two circuits so if you completely unterminated a socket, the rest of them would then be on two seperate radials albeit with potentially insufficient conductor size. I dont know what local regs say in Italy but for a start, I doubt they use ring final circuits. In any case, if you don't know local code - you should certainly find out before you do a rewire. In the UK, as an unqualified person you would not be able to do such work without having the local authority test and inspect it for approval. Even then, as an unqualified person you would still need to be a competent person i.e. show knowledge of the techniques and standards expected to be used. Pigtailing sockets may be the standard solution in Italy - I have no idea other than to say that if they do, they would be more likely to use wago spring lever connectors or some other connector rather than wirenuts as the latter are not common in Europe
Is there any real risk if no cable tie is used on the wagon junction box
Nope
@@Cjrelectrical thank you - I was also wondering about the new inserts released by wago for the 221 connectors inside the boxes - there are many boxes already installed without those inserts !
How does he run cables from wall to wall as the joists are in the way. Would he have to lift all floor boards up to drill holes through
Er yes he would
It's ground floor so there is an open void under the joists
21:02 this is the attitude that encourages dodgy practices. When someone asks a professional for their expert view or experience and they can’t be bothered.
I recently worked on a project where the client hadn’t thought ahead and booked a sparks. Now the job wasn’t urgent and we could wait but I tried 12 qualified tradesmen who couldn’t be bothered as it was arse of a job. In the end she got a friend to do the works. Now I don’t agree with this but I can clearly see how it happens.
John Smith - I agree with your comment. I just find it hard to swallow that important trades should not be complicit in dodgy practices. Complicit only in distancing themselves by not helping. If you understand what I mean.
It is important that you quote and advise. If people take it upon themselves to ignore and break the law then it’s on them. I agree that some will do whatever the fuck they want. But lots wouldn’t.
I have a friend who quotes for staged works. Even letting customers chase the walls, pull the floorboards etc. I mean it saves him a load of time as well. Plus he advises what customers can and can’t do.
Lift the boards first then the crap goes under the floor . Plus you can put your feet through the floor 😀
Why are you bearing joints in the floor when you could put your joint in the box this way if you ever have to do any testing it's accessible behind one of the outlets versus having to take the carpet up take the wood up and find your connection in the floor
Is that the dual CK utility knife? I’ve got one and love the larger blade for stripping armoured. The armour slice is decent mate! That reminds me I need to get some more blades
Great work buddy. Not sure if the circuit was on a 32a mcb but those wagos you used are only rated at 24A. Need to use the lever wagos for 32A circuits or the red push fit ones are rated at 41A
Just seen other comments on this about half the load going down each leg. Obviously that is correct but I'd personally use the 32a lever connectors.
Your incorrect mate sorry.
Could you tell me please where you get your cable capping for the cable chase to the sockets? I can only see flat stuff on screwfix. Thanks but>>>>
Literally my new favourite channel, I’m not a sparky to trade, I was an alarm technician for 17yrs cctv alarms etc etc mostly installation work and a few years as a service technician, I’ve been out the game for 4yrs but this has helped me rewire my house with the advice of my electrician mate, basically I’m doing the labour and cabling and fit out taking it up to the point the board needs done. My old electrics in this house are scary bad so currently rewired my upstairs lighting and ring main sockets and downstairs lighting, I am leaving my downstairs sockets/kitchen early next year as we have a new kitchen going in.
Its on the screwfix website 100% search for oval conduit
As you were on about torque setting on the socket screws , you could use a German torque setting ie. Good -en-tight. ha ha
Do you charge the same hourly for the painting as the electrics? 🤔
Price work
Fucking shat myself at that spider
Have i seen it wrong or you havnt grounded the backbox?
Awesome as always Chris!
See the socket you connected into, I would have just cut the 2.5mm in half and made a joint, would have saved you a raggle? But may have to used 2x wago boxes?
Or mayb my way is junk? 😂
Yeah the cable wasn’t under the floor I lifted and was below the tiles bathroom floor so had no option to remove and reroute
What a nightmare😞.
Wasn’t picking mate was just curious if I was in the wrong or not 😂,
Also good to see I’m not the only sparky that fills there own raggles. Do admit not as good as that 🙈😯
Do you bond your metal boxes?
Not required under the regs if one of the fixing lugs is fixed.
Chris the slice is for armour cable slice
I know the theory that you don't need to put an earthing cable on the back box - but as this takes 30 seconds - why not do it ?
I recently put some electrical tape over the rubber shroud cable of an Apple computer charger. It has been on the cable for about four months and took it off the other day only to find the rubber sleeve of teh cable to have gone all mushy . I think this is dangerous but can't understand how it could happen when it was proper electrical tape used. Any thoughts ? Should the rubber electrical cable from the power supply charger have deteriorated like that ?
It's the plastic used on the USB cables. It reacts with the adhesive. Some plastics don't like tape.
Likely nothing to do with the tape and more to do with the type of plastic used by Apple. It's not really designed to be taped up.
@@EsotericArctos Thanks for the reply. You'd think that electrical tape could be placed around electrical cables though without fear of the cable deteriorating. Im going to take the charger back to Apple and tell them I think its a danger and should be replaced or recalled.
Elfin4 Apple would never recommend taping up their chargers though, if it’s damaged, it should be replaced. Just because you’ve damaged it doesn’t mean it’s an inherent design flaw that Apple should replace every time you need it. And it definitely doesn’t need recalling
Chris if extending a ring to add 3 extra sockets is a minor works job, so what is a radial circuit say a fcu for a alarm or whatever would that be a full eic because new circuit new mcb etc
Correct
CJR ELECTRICAL
But the additional load of the sockets outweighs anything the single circuit would pull obviiusly not a cooker or shower circuit so makes no sense to minor one and not the other i understand the addition to existing and all that jazz but should be minor all round what you reckon mate
RK 180 no if your installing a new circuit then you need to issue an electrical installation certificate has nothing to do with load or number of points.
I use the same software it’s pretty good