Telling My Life Story To Explain Why I Hate Dark Souls
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
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Intro/Outro by SKONK - / @bigskonk
Intro/Outro track by KEIFERGR33N - / @keifergr33n
Edited by @shishi4 / yon_shishi
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Игры
I feel as though saying "you're playing the game wrong" or "you've approached with a wrong mindset" not only misses the entire point of why he even had the rant in the first place, but only further exemplifies Phi's point about the community and their ideas on suffering. People should focus more on the Sekiro part of the rant:
Phi explains that he doesn't like the Souls games because he feels most of his time is spent waiting and evading before he can counter attack, and if he dies, more time is spent on running back to the boss and avoiding enemies before trying again. I've seen some comments mentioning that shields can help players learn patterns, but
1) a decently sized portion of the Souls community tends to shit on shields as a "crutch"
2) you have to adjust your build around the weight-to-damage-blocked ratio you want so you don't big roll
Contrast this to SekiBorne, where your defensive mechanics are also offensive with gun parrying/recoverable health in Bloodborne or the posture mechanics in Sekiro. Rather than waiting for an opening between combos, or constantly repositioning yourself so that you can get a single attack or two in, SekiBorne tells you to be more offensive once you're comfortable and engage with the deeper mechanics of the game. Hitting enemies in Bloodborne lets you get recoverable health, and you can almost always have your gun on hand for parrying. Posture in Sekiro encourages you to constantly attack to stagger enemies for a deathblow, but since posture also applies to you as well, parrying becomes a skillful way of avoiding being staggered yourself.
Parrying also exists in Souls, but the mechanics of it aren't nearly as straight forward (shields having varying counter frames is still weird and never mentioned in-game, to my knowledge). It makes sense that he'd vibe with SekiBorne's more active ways of handling combat, especially as a FG player.
Sending you back to the bonfire was giving you the opertunity to get stronger by leveling up or get new gear. All bosses are easy if you prepare for them. Running back to the boss over and over avoiding enemy's? I guess the game would suck if you played like that but I don't think that was what you were soposed to do well atleast I didn't do that.
kinda feel like phi has come to terms with his younger self. like he forgives and respects his past self, instead of beating himself up for how hard he was on himself.
We love to see it.
story pretty interesting but you can definitely get an intuition for from soft games.
Towards the end of the video he ends up dialing back a bit on the "no intuition" for FromSoft games. His problem is mostly that "getting better at dark souls 1" (i.e. building that intuition) means interacting with bosses less and less.
Which I kind of get where he's coming from even if I disagree. Because in Dark Souls it is generally true that there is no "I will learn to squeeze in a hit here and there between the attacks in this string." In reality, getting better at dark souls becomes "I will learn to not attack the boss and I will dodge / wait for this whole string to finish before I AM able to fit in an attack."
I do understand the frustration there because the moves are so slow and the game really tests your patience. So it feels like you're just waiting around most of the fight. To me though my tekken brain does see boss moves as punishable strings, you just have to learn when those strings actually finish.
the instantaneous scrubquoting bout Dark Souls lmfaoooo
Honestly dodged a bullet not getting into Harvard.
More like dodged a cannon ball.
PhiDX Unhinged indeed. Explaining that in FG you can build intuition, and then thinking he is explaining why dark souls you do not, where the whole game is building intuition. New soulsborne game comes out, you get into a bossfight, they twist their torso to the right you know it will be a grab, and can act accordingly. A dragon does a paw swipe, you know you have to stay down, because the 2nd swipe WILL be timed exatly to the fast roll getup. You have small arena boss, you don't chain-roll, because the attack pattern will be tuned to roll-catch you, you do roll, half second pause, roll, always INTO the enemy, not away from them.
literally! I went into the DLC of ER with pure instinct. Almost every boss was like 5-7 tries. Except Sennesax, fk Sennesax.
@@apolloisnotashirt Same. all the bosses were absolute bangers. except Senessax
@@hiester6519 when people complained about cheap AOEs I was like wtf u guys talking about. Then she came along. I get it now.
Phi: _Pours his heart out trauma dumping_
Chatter: "Bro why aren't you ducking that string?!"
His audience is not his therapist, they are watching him to be entertained and watching him misplay isn't fun.
@@OdaSwifteye First off watching streamers misplay is VERY funny since it gives chat ammo to troll them. Interacting with them is part of the fun.
Second, someone explicitly asked him what led to his current mindset in the game. It's a very loaded question that in order to give a full answer, meant he'd have to go into details about his life. Cause that's also part of being a successful streamer, is establishing a connection with your audience. If Phi or any streamer as people didn't matter, they could all just play with no camera, no mic, and just gameplay. But those kind of streams rarely work if ever.
I love Fromsoft games, Dark Souls 1 is my favorite, but I understand what you're describing. The amount of information that bridges Boss A to Boss B is pretty small. For the most part each boss is it's own challenge because most of what the player is doing is learning their unique animations / hitboxes / whatever. I would argue there is some carry over, but it's minimal. After you learn that some attacks can be slow, some attacks can be fast, some have delayed wind-up animations, some strings have branching paths, and some bosses have phases; then you've pretty much gained most of the intuition that will be usable across the game. And, like you said, what that boils down to is: can I attack now or am I rolling / waiting?
And, also like you said, the masochism and shared masochism is an enjoyable part. I love hearing stories of how my friends suffered as I have suffered. There's camaraderie in that, and also in having the patience to persist in the face of growing frustration.
smough is easy
well said!
"It means I wait, or I wait more, or I wait even more."
No, you can use the time to reposition, and/or use fast attacks that move you out of the range for their attack box.
You're right about one thing though. Playing the Souls games is like playing against a Tekken player who only knows fake knowledge checks.
You don't actually need to die over and over to learn the attack patterns in the Souls games though if your build is good. You can hide behind shields, and things like that, to give yourself room to learn the attack patterns.
Phi played Souls like playing Tekken without things like sidestepping lol. If all you do is wait, you just didn't learn to play the game
Bro really tried to refute the claim fromsoft games are about waiting and then ended it by saying you can wait lmfao
@@Vexinz The game plan isn't to wait. The shield is only there to cover for lack of knowledge while you're learning the game.
PhiDX just casually explaining his life story in an incredibly cohesive and interesting way while also whooping opponents is mind-boggling to me.
That's so sick and it makes me wanna get so good at a fighting game that I don't need to dedicate all my focus in a match just to survive 😂
go for it man you can do it!
i feel like this is less a matter of intuition and more a problem of enemy cohesion and player agency. in ds1 espc, theres much less in the realm of humanoid or grounded bosses; thus, as a means of providing a universal and consistent way to deal with things that would otherwise have no way to compare and contrast them, rolling through attacks, punishing, and maintaining a proper stamina economy were the concepts that tied the bosses together in a somewhat cohesive manner, but can fail due to its rather linear and boring presentation and dynamics. in order to subvert this boring presentation, though, variables like attack timing or speed are manipulated heavily as an attempt to make bosses feel different, to much varying effect.
in contrast, sekiro and its much more grounded cast of enemies and bosses has much more leeway in how it can present concepts and teach the player to intuit a bosses counters when first seeing them. after all, a humanoid can only do so much, so naturally many enemies will fall into similar patterns. the economy of what can be presented and interpreted is much wider, and allows for significantly more emergent tactics ans gameplay.
also git gud /s
This video is just low quality bait, you can't be serious making these claims while playing tekken, just lmao.
he went from "I love this topic" to "I hate this conversation" 😭
Bro the cut at 18:02 😂😂😂
Was lookin for a comment that heard this lmfaoooo
Weird question, would you consider playing make a good mega man level 1,2,3?
Sounds like dark souls was a bit too difficult for phi 😂
Yeah, you're right that souls games are purposefully designed to make you lose until you've seen everything you can lose to, but that can be fun for different reasons. As someone who's done a bit of challenge running here and there (the basic SL1, No Upgrades, NG+? shtick), the gratification you get from perfectly learning everything a boss can do is genuine. Although the skills you develop on one boss don't carry over to the others (except for the mental fortitude, lol), that can mean more potential fun as there's more to learn and sink time into. That's just my take, though, and Fromsoft has admittedly been off the mark on occasion.
Damn I can't believe is Phi is so unbased
EDIT: Btw, have you tried Monster Hunter or Nioh or Ninja Gaiden? Since you only tried PVE these games have more complex PVE
People forget that souls games are just rpgs at their core, your build matters a shit ton in those games. and learning how to build a character in one game definitely helps in others btw. Thats really the main reason I see peoplle struggle so much in those games especially elden ring. Seriously if you know how to build your character you can breeze through most of these games' levels and bosses no sweat.
The gatekeeping around builds continues to be weird
Exactly but the problem is that almost nobody in the community is willing to admit this. They act like skill and learning move sets is everything. Even if you explain how that's factually false, they'll argue you about it. That causes many people including myself to buy and play the games just to be disappointed with an experience that's not at all as people have been describing them for the literal decade plus I've been hearing about these games without playing them during my life.
The problem you are describing does not exist in Dark Souls 3
I don't agree, not to say you're wrong in how you experience it.
You can definitelly get some intuition for how the boss works once you see it, like where are the gaps, what can roll catch or when you can heal.
You'll die a lot to get it right, but what newbie doesn't get stuck in ranked when starting a new fighting game?
The pacing of the fights being more turn based isn't all that different either, just watch a fg that is hard neutral focused like Koihime Enbu or vanilla Granblue and you'll see how it can be just as frustrating to play.
FGs are definitelly more interactive with complex mind games since you're dealing with different humans all the time, but the process of learning and enjoying both doesn't feel different to me at all.
I'd be interested to hear how PhiDX feels about monster hunter. I have a lot of the same gripes with the darksouls combat loop, and it's exacerbated by the fact that the weapons in the souls games just aren't very interesting to use like they are in monster hunter. There is still pattern recognition learning in monster hunter, but it doesn't feel like the monsters are specifically designed to punish you for building intuition on attack timings. Every monster in monster hunter also uses their anatomy and the environment to attack you, so you can actually have an intuition for what kinds of attacks they will do just from looking at them. Tack onto that the depth and resource management inherent in each of the weapon designs, and you end up with an amazingly deep game with a seemingly endless skill ceiling.
Gotta call cap. If you learn how to dodge, block, upgrade, parry, and space yourself in the first quarter of Dark Souls you can apply it to the rest of the game. Playing Dark Souls before Dark Souls II, Dark Souls III, and Elden Ring allowed me to have a much easier time and flatter learning curve. It doesn't sound you played the game very much. There's no attacks in Dark Souls that will one shot you if you are even close to appropriately leveled/armored. It may be the case that you weren't appropriately equipped and you can argue that the game could have been more intuitive about how it explains building your character for survivability but that is a separate argument. Complaining about having to walk, roll, and learn enemy patterns is just complaining about having to play the game. All while saying "I'm not playing the game, I'm having to walk and roll" That's the game bro. Do you not like playing Tekken because you have to space and attack? That's just gameplay.
therefore, he doesnt like the game. and thats fine, he doesnt have to like what you like. pretty simple
Holy paragraph, take that reddit man calm down
@@kenshisankiIt took like 10 seconds to read…
@@BanditTools Didn't ask, don't care
@@kenshisanki Didn't ask, don't care
Me personally, I find genuine enjoyment in learning the battle of most Souls games, learning the lore of the world, and mainly exploring it. You think you have to experience every one of the Boss' move, you dont though? First time playing Elden Ring, I die a few times to a couple of the bosses, but wanna know what I realize? The thing that I was able to nail down, is their rhythm. Fromsoft has this way of telling you when an attack is extremely fast or extremely slow, you don't need to die to every move, you just need to die enough to learn the general rhythm of the game. For example, Elden Ring mostly has bosses with extremely delayed moves with a rare mix of instant moves. Bloodborne is different, its more visceral, more animalistic, beastlike, and if you don't dodge you are fked. And at some point, I've played ER so much that I am able to recognize most attacks and combos of newer bosses from the DLC without even dying so much as 5 times. You CAN develop intuition.
DarkSoouls REALLY is exactly that. It was why i fell in love with the series because before i played it, i would avoid anything
that seemed to be a negative experience. Tried to learn C++, it was hard, i quit. Tried to learn how to Rap, disliked my voice, i quit.
Gaming was all i was naturally good at, so when DarkSouls was too hard, i DID alt f4, but it nagged at me. It pissed me off.
I alt F4'd like 50 times if not more, but my ego wouldnt let me quit so when i beat it (and with each boss i defeated) i noticed
what it means to not quit something just because you cant do it first or even 50th attempt. It was a lesson i needed badly.
It will always be special to me, but Tekken is just so much more fun ngl. I barely finished Eldenring cuz the DS1 experience will never come back.
There will be some exceptions but I do think the trajectory of Souls games proves that there are transferable skills and that prior knowledge and intuition becomes useful going forward. FromSoftware has had to continually keep outdoing themselves when it comes to challenge because the player base has learned and adapted so much. You can also see evidence of this when you go backwards too because suddenly things that seemed difficult in earlier Souls games now feel incredibly easy.
Dark Souls is built upon repeated trial and error for every major boss, where as fighting games in general are much more about intuition based on situations and circumstances. They both share a learning process but FGs make it more dynamic which can be either wildly more frustrating, or much more fun, depending on the person
I beat 70% of Elden Ring bosses on first try.
Until you try PVP, in which every match is dynamic...just like Tekken fighting vs a real person instead of AI 🤯
@@Walamonga1313 He explicitly stated that he wasn't talking about the PvP aspect. PvP and PvE of souls games are two vastly different experiences.
"Dark Souls is built upon repeated trial and error for every major boss"
That is part of it, yes. Though, not entirely. There is plenty of intuition/reaction based on circumstances in souls games as well, even for bosses (minus the more "gimmicky" fights). But fighting games lean into that more heavily, whereas souls games are more about the trial/error and slower paced learning/reacting and execution. Both mix each aspect to differing degrees and both have merit.
Love the theme of this talk but that Dark Souls take is nonsense. There is absolutely an intuition that you can develop which will serve you in future Souls environments. Elden Ring pulled away from that a bit in order to convince players to explore and inflate play time, but that wasn't the case in 1-3. Looping trial and error for specific setups over hundreds and hours isn't fun and wouldn't have let that series sell as well as it did. Masocore losers looking to lord their achievement over you are only the loudest of those you run into talking about this game online, they're not the largest demographic buying the game.
No seriously though what oneshot knowledge check boss move is there in DS1? Did I just get lucky and miss all those?
@@TheJakeJackson if you go a dex build and do not put more then 20 points in health, then Artorias the abyss walker has like 2-3 move that will one shot you most of the time and then once in dark mode he will one shot you almost every time and manos combos also kill you most of the time. I know this because I was dumb and didn't think I need health I was wrong and wasted 3 days trying to beat Artorias without getting hit once
One thing I hate about souls games is how superficial and pretentious their "rpg/build" system is, where the only stat that remotely affects your actual playstyle is stamina. Everything else is simply numbers, and the combat is always going to be that dull, input-delayed souls combat with mediocre animations. No skill trees, no new abilities as you progress.
"so you've defeated a boss, guess what, the enemies in the next area will deal more damage and can tank more hits!" What is your answer? Increase YOUR own attack power and HP. It's just a game of cat and mouse
@@user-ob4dc3px1g You have a point but it's a bit reductive, and i think you're overlooking how impactful finding a new weapon or spell is in changing your options. Going into a boss, observing, and testing your different offensive options is half the game, then mastering it is the other half. If you complain about the game's options being simple then it seems like you're ignoring the other possibilities being offered
@@mattgibson9337 Thank you, I did play DS1 as a dex build with 13 points into health but I never had the DLC so I never saw that
i think he quit on smough cuz his lighting stuff 1 shots
I think I was watching LS' stream and picking up the same extremely self-critical habits and I was watching when you had a coaching session and asked about getting good to be a booster on his stream. Glad I could pick up the positive/self-caring mindset from you while being on a similar path. :) I think you've overlooked a key similarity between fighting games and dark souls just like the chatter talking about constructive and destructive personalities was mentioning, both communities can be very elitist and it is the power of perseverance against challenges like those types of elitist personalities and trolls that proves rewarding.
While I agree SOME bosses are like that is dark souls, there is ABSOLUTELY intuition on a majority of bosses. Otherwise the dark souls/fromsoft experts wouldnt complete the new games so much faster and easier than players who arent experts in the genre. Like bed of chaos is a complete dogshit boss design and there is no intuition there u just have to trial and error that. Its a literal knowledge check that one shots u if u attempt to walk up to interact with the boss. its dumb. but saying after ur fights with iron golem and the gargoyles that u have not developed any intuition against ornstein and smough is just completely not true. they gave u a basis for baiting out attacks from a certain boss to attack the other in a duo boss fight, they taught u how to split them apart. they taught u how to avoid big swings by hugging the boss and rotating around them in the iron golem fight. ornstein is there to keep u on ur toes. u bait a swing, space, whichever way works in ur mind. I think that YOU turned it into a pattern recognition thing my looking at bosses individually like a match up. they are all just dark souls and have similarities that will absolutely transfer from boss to boss. the ones that have NO transferable or even little transferable skills are outliers and generally looked at as bad bosses.
ex bosses that are shit that take this patter: seath, bed of chaos, idiot horse chariot thingy from ds2, ds2 dlc the whole thing tbh that dlc kinda stinks. other than that I just dont see the rest of them at all.
I do agree that bloodborne does have better designed bosses though and some fights, especially in older games, could be made much better if they were modernized. I think some of this comes from just how old ds1 is. Like pinwheel is just... what the fuck? its not hard its just like... who made that and why.
Got academic probation halfway through college, eventually adopted the mindset you're talking about. Graduated a year ago, can't believe I spent so much time thinking that way before.
PhiDX: "I hate that i didnt edit out that akward pause, it infuriates me!"
Also PhiDX: 17:59 hahaha (That honestly was a perfect cut tho xD)
coming around this to shit on DS1 is crazy 😭😭😭 DS1 is FINE... the other ones DS3 and up are more of a memory game than anything... DS1 is literally just a turn based game
edit: in souls many souls games... you gain intuition of knowing when to attack... I got to like the 15:00 ish minute mark and you cant attack DS1 still because their movesets arent complex at all 😭😭😭 idk man... I feel like I've gained alot of experience starting DS1 last year... I I beat all DS2 bosses either first or 2nd try... DS3 and Elden Ring is where it gets weird because their attack patterns are not Turn Based, but more memorize a shit ton of patterns because said bosses barely have an attack cooldown... I wont lie tho... I beat alot of Elden Ring Bosses quickly because I wasnt scared to try and jump over attacks BUT(that is knowledge checks and memorizing patterns as you said) BUT I like it tho
rip orange name lmao
LMAO @18:39 I wonder if he actually stfu! 😂😂😂😂
I had a friend who played dark souls and he had anger issues lel
I respect your opinion, I personally love the pattern recognition gameplay in dark souls. It feels like each individual boss is a new violent dance that I have to adapt to and overcome, which I enjoy. I don't enjoy souls elitists, it's a game to be enjoyed. Also, I don't think the white signs in dark souls telling you to jump are out of malice, I just see it as a funny part of the community. You fall for it once then smirk at the rest. Tekken 8 is my first Tekken and I love the gameplay/the learning more than Souls, but the journey of a souls game is satisfiying in a different way, to me at least.
Thanks bro, as someone who also had that notion that of got to a big college or your life is over, this really helped. I didn't even end up finishing HS so you can imagine how low my self esteem got lmao.
if there wasn't sekiro i was a souls hater and now im a fan
The Asian parent stereotypes really aren't jokes, are they?
I think every souls game is a masterpiece can’t lie but you’re the goat so you can have this one
Also agree the community is shit and it’s normally a dick measuring contest but the games imo are just peak
The lore and story and world design is amazing!
@@PhiDXUnhinged Dont forget the gameplay. And the graphics
@@Nathan-zd8ew And the music
@@Walamonga1313 and the multiplayer (most of the time), coop and invasions
Doesnt surprise me. Keep in mind PhiDX is a dedicated Tekken player/streamer. Games for a streamer are a double edged sword, they must also entairtain their audience.
Learning another game & especially a game that is considered hard from the beginning must be a humbling experience for PhiDX, he probably went to his early fighting game years back when he was still a noob playing against other low tier players (like everyone who start a new game).
To be fair i dont really consider DS games particularly hard games, they just require a different mindset which is patience. If you dont have that things are going to be tough. However PhiDX should have plenty of patience since he is a dedicated fighting game player (Even if Tekken has extremely limited projectile zoning or teleport, let me tell you if you play a grappler vs projectile zoners you are going be the zen master or fail miserably). But its possible he doesnt have the stamina/patience to learn Souls, compete at T8 top level & also be a streamer.
That said you can beat Souls games by many ways. You can beat them without reactions if you read attacks (a bit more difficult in later games, but IMO the later games become easier in other ways), You can beat them with Reactions alone, you can even beat them without any of those things (by just farming enemies/consumables). The farming strat is true in every Souls clone as well (example in Lies of P etc).
Also another crucial part of Soulslike games is the hunt for lore content via items/dialogue. Souls story is quite poor (very simple plot once you figure out whats happening but the lore/worldbuilding are top notch, only comparable with other classic RPGs. This is a crucial part of the game that probably went unnoticed by PhiDX. As a Tekken player, even Tekken with its joke storylines would have more interest (even if Souls surpass T8 story in other areas).
Also why no DS2 in your list? If you didnt know DS2 is probably the hardest Soulslike. DS2 is the reason why DS3 had so many bonfires, was more accessible, had low mob density, low mob aggro radius, no weapon degredation, no CoC had tons of QoL (s not tied to agility, no CoC) etc. ER has even lower mob density.
His kinda right about souls community though. Look at ER for example. People gatekeeping using summons on the base game. Now for the DLC using shields to take no minimal to no damage. But with that said, I like both fighting games and ER in the same way that I like to learn how to actually fight.
But I disagree with his point about boss 1 not helping you fight boss 2. I havent played any FS games besides ER and sekiro. But both of those games have a wall boss that teaches you a fundamental thing that is required to complete the game. Look at margit for example. Margit has all the annoying things all the bosses will have for the rest of the game. A super delayed attack to catch you rolling. An attack that has a possible string extension if you get close. Then the tan favourite input reading when he is in idle state and you try to heal. The same for sekiro and the DLC. For sekiro it was lady butterly and for the ER DLC it was rellana for me. Although his point that its still a trial and error, as well as memorization imo is true. But that goes for fighting games too though.
In dark souls 1 if you pay attention you can def build intuition around the game the game constantly gives you hints to the environment and teaches you to be careful. You sound like all the people in the DS community who play the game like a challenge mode then get upset because they don't like that playstyle. There's 100s of combinations of magic, summons, weapons, armor and items that help you interact in a different way with all enemy npcs. If you CHOOSE to interact with bosses by waiting for them to attack, dodge and attack because the community told you that's the way to play then that's on you lol. The fun comes from playing with builds and the "leveling up" comes from not only leveling your character but from building your game knowledge from the community about builds strats etc.
Most of the DS community are loser scrubs just like in Tekken so idk how that's relevant to the game itself. It's literally not built on anything you talked about. The game gives you the things you need to succeed and if you ignore it that's on you. If you get one shot by a boss and your only idea is to dodge better or learn the pattern you are pigeon holing yourself into a specific playstyle that you don't seem to like. You could leave and level up, change builds, summon a friend/npc to help and more. If you don't want to do any of that because of some weird sense of honor in the community or whatever that's literally your own fault. That's like playing tekken and convincing yourself that sidestepping moves and attack is the only way you should play. No blocking, no power crushs, no grabs nothing. It's like you're cucking your options then crying about getting cucked.
Idk how you rambled about needing a mindset change and don't realize you need a mindset change when it comes to Dark Souls. It's an rpg so maybe if you play it like one you might have fun...
If you didn't like dark souls fair enough but I didn't like the game because it was hard I liked it because of the world secrets items customization and most of all multiplayer. For me difficulty was about leveling up my character gave me a sense of my character becoming stronger it's not fair to compare darks oils to tekken two completely different games. Darks souls is many things tekken is just a fighting game
runbacks weren't fun yeah, they removed those ds3 onward
Man I didn't know that enjoying other's suffering was the entire souls community. Its a shame that, that has stopped you and maybe others from playing the games.
Luckily I always played offline so I never saw the messages and to me Souls games were the building blocks for developing a mindset that makes learning fun and that has translated to learning Tekken.
Yes the example you showed does apply but it doesn't go very far because there are other types of strings that end in mids and are safe and the counter play to them might be interrupting them or sidestepping. So the intuition does eventually fail just as it does in souls. On top of which the mix up in strings between high (safe, duckable) and mid (punishable) needs fuzzy ducks that require labbing the timings as they are not universal for every string. In the end, I am on a journey to learn everything that each character can do even if I have to fail against those characters while trying to find out the knowledge that I'm missing and eventually be equipped to deal with anything my opponent can throw at me. And thats basically how souls/sekiro/elden ring work for me as well.
Dark souls 1 is just dodge left every boss. Ppl overthink that genre way too much
this is true
now i feel like playing dark souls 1
Yeah. Dark Souls 1 really isn't that hard. O&S was pretty tough for me, but I one shot Gwyn and thought there had to be more to that fight since it was the last boss.
I've only played Demon's Souls, but the part about "walking back to the boss" is so true. Fucking Tower Knight, man. Or Flamelurker. That shit SUCKS.
I get what he's saying though. It's hard to put into words, but I think I have the same feelings towards these games. Also, an addition from me: they have this arcade gameplay-loop, but they're the opposite of arcade games. Like, Cuphead is basically the same thing, and yet it seems to be less divisive.
Souls games aren't for me and I know that, but it seems like me just saying that makes me the enemy.
also the fucking stamina bro
imagine if dante had to hide because he did two stingers smh
What I dislike about the whole "souls" phenomenon is that other companies are, as is always the case, just learning a superficial lesson and making "souls like" games which are basically a Dark Souls re-skin with some new/different mechanics here and there. Don't just copy their results, study their core design principles and let them inform your game. Put tons of effort into lore/worldbuilding, make intricate levels that reward exploration, don't be afraid to kick players asses, etc. Don't present the lore in the same way, make the same type of levels and the same type of combat.
Was gonna write a bunch but tl;dr
"summon signs aren't helpful" disagree there's alot showing hidden walls, genuine shortcuts, warning what type of enemy is ahead, if there's an ambush etc there's the "try jumping ones" sometimes they're funny but there's alot of actually useful ones for blind playthroughs
"Community bad and gatekeepy" agree they also gatekeep in the wrong way if they were to gatekeep which is amusing (strength builds are by far the lowest skill floor/ knowledge floor combo and I recommend them to new players) and if you want to play with a friend just do it ignore the reddit mods complaining about summons it's based
"Game not made for improving/ intuition" disagree, alot of patterns repeat among bosses and basic enemies albeit different animations and stuff but the same rules apply and are very instinctive to me fighting an enemy for the first time
"Game bad" disagree but if you don't like it that's fine noone should be telling you to or not to.
Fun side note the lore matters in taking down certain enemies. First example I can think of is "golden order = holy, their enemy uses fire, maybe stacking holy res and imbuing fire damage is good against them" (used this in my first playthrough to make some sections easier with minimal effort)
Idk why I wrote this but ty for reading enjoy your day, could write more but won't it's not worth anyones time ^^
honestly kinda just sounds like a guy who intuitised many of the DS1 stuff so quickly he didnt understand he learned anything, such as big slow move hits harder, quick fast moves hit weaker, heavy armour is for slower game plans, overhand attacks need to be dodged to the side verse back or forward. Like the first time Gwyen kicks you if you shielded there is no reason to be suprised if you ever kicked an enemy before so you should already know to roll it. Also pushing your limits on when and where you can attack and not take damage for it is "trial and error" if you dont know the weapons your using since most bosses in DS1 are very straight forward. Finally the only straight one shot moves I can think of in DS1 are so massively telegraphed idk if thats fair to call a knowledge check, the more slow and telegraphed they harder its going to hit.
Souls community in these comments are proving his point literally
To be honest, I love Dark Souls 1 but the main reason was the world design, the exploration, the atmosphere. While the game is more famous for it's difficulty and it's git gud mentality, but if you where to remove the DS1 elements I wouldn't even like it. That's why now that I am moving on DS3 or Elden Ring and other modern that focus more on epic hard insane boss battles where the boss is doing like endless attack combos and I don't know how am I supposed to fight this, I kinda am nostalgic for the old DS1. DS3 is more like path A to B to boss and even the level design is more linear and bland in my taste, but I know everyone tells me the boss battles are epic but I don't seem to enjoy them. Those games are more famous for that, I see people boasting how in Elden Ring they were playing 50 hours non stop a certain boss with over 300 attempts, and I am like what? In my playthrough after 10-20 attempts I am like, I am outa here, I go and explore and do other things till I get beefier (and use some spirit ashes, because I literally cannot get how you are supposed to avoid getting hit non stop and still have a window of opportunity to attack back or heal, old DS1 bosses would pause after 2-3 attacks at least, but since DS3 it became insane chaotic attack fest). I really do like DS for different reasons, DS1 even is one of my favorite games, and I am not some bad player, in old DS1 and even 2 I have become good enough I can reach halfway of the game with zero deaths. But what's missing is the old level design and the elements that made exploration attractive.
I think people have different conception of what is for example artificial difficulty vs good fair difficulty, or what's learning from mistakes or punishing the player for no reason. It's all relative and first time I played DS1 I hated it, then I started learning and loved it. Then go to DS2 and I know it's the black sheep of DS, but because some things played differently, even if I had developed an intuition for these games previously, I hated it even more. But now I replay and love it and I can actually have FUN with it. And moving to DS3 I have still not finish it and I find all those FromSoft recent games have moved to the direction of bad ass fast attack spamming spectacle fighting bosses as most people know the series for that, and I don't like it, and I even find the world unintereseting to explore. But I am pretty at some time I'll start liking it. It's a matter of taste and what you enjoy from video games. I am still nostalgic for DS1 and a bit of 2 though and I've played and replayed them so much that I am good enough to traverse their worlds, try different builds and actually having FUN. So it's a bit relative if something is fun or not.
Nah, you don’t have to have some grand reason for not liking the game. Playing through the entire series, as I have, each game is easier than the last because you develop the same game sense you described. Don’t make up weird reasons for not liking it, just don’t play it.
There is absolutely intuition in Dark Souls as well. Every game has a design language that you can pick up on and learn. Souls games are no exception.
Every attack has a windup that you can see coming and react to, there's multiple ways to handle every boss, and the build-variety is insane, especially in later games. And when you play enough of it, you start to see things coming based on what bosses do, you recognize recurring windups and patterns, and you develop an intuition for what bosses are going to do before you even know it's coming. The series has been compared to Monster Hunter for this reason and I think that's a pretty accurate comparison.
There are so many different ways to handle the game, and from what it sounds like, you played in a way you considered boring and acted as if that's the one and only way to play the game, then wrote it off as not being for you and you're judging the fanbase for liking it. Why not try a different build if you're not into the one you did? It's not at all uncommon to not be into these games the first time, it kinda happened to me. I played Demon Souls back on the ps3 and I didn't really understand it. Much like you, I liked the lore and the world and level design, but I didn't "get" the combat. I thought it was slow, clunky, and I ended up using a walkthrough to get through the game, something I regret to this day. Then when Dark Souls came out, I tried that, and since I had a basic understanding of the game, I decided to try a different build. This time it was a dexterity/intelligence split and I had a lot more fun, since I could get in close and attack with quick strikes and also back away when I wasn't sure what the boss was doing, which allowed me to simultaneously watch its behavior while still being able to attack with magic.
You're also wrong about the community only being in it "for the suffering". I think that's insane, you're judging everyone by the actions of a few. There's tons of people who love the lore, the worlds, and everything else, and isn't in it for the difficulty, or at least not only that. There's also tons of people who want to see others get into the series too. There's a lot to love in it, and I like to see others discover that themselves. If you didn't like the game the first time, and you weren't willing to give it another serious go, that's fine, but let's not generalize and make assumptions.
pretty sure hating on the game rated GOAT is a skill issue
11:43
Souls games have intuition and "legacy skills" of some sort, they just don't really apply to bosses and elite enemies. I understand the point but it's not true outside bosses.
I hate the souls community and I love seeing them mad so God bless.
Edit: we basically agree further on in the video.
PhiDX is my new favorite person
He developed a loser mindset where he would mentally give up when facing seemingly insurmountable odds. He then developed another negative mindset where he would be really hard on himself and decide that playing a video game to enjoy it is a loser mindset (basically becoming a sweaty tryhard).
And this leads to his contempt for the Dark Souls games because he believes the community revels in failings while misunderstanding that dying a lot is expected but so is getting better over time.
Dark Soul fans often care quite a lot about the lore, they deeply value skill and expect you to win very hard fights with all possible training wheels off.
He needed to tell his life story to explain why he doesn't like Dark Souls because it in reality has nothing to do with Dark Souls it has to do with his mentality that the way he thinks about things and approaches subjects makes Dark Souls unpleasant for him.
TL;DR Just a lot of yapping to say that you don't like Dark Souls because you developed a loser mentality and a lot of bad habits that make playing Dark Souls games not fun.
10:54 Dark Souls is nothing more than a memory check. Miyazaki uses all the same tricks in every game. All the bosses have atel's, the only difference is the timing. Im disabled inmy right hand, and the only one I havrnt beaten is Sekiro, because after a certan amount of time my left hand cant respond quick enough. You have to be willing to adapt to the circumstances you are in. I never have a dex, or a strerngth, or a magic build. I use whatever is needed for the situation.
Is this clickbait? Just because you hate Dark Souls that doesn't mean Dark Souls suck.
So you failed at school and life so you ran to video games to compensate for your failures fueled by your narcissistic need for success? You're not playing for fun, you are playing to regulate your self worth.
Damn
holy shit lol
Men will tell their whole life story instead of enjoying dark souls. Or going to Therapy.
You will never be a woman.
I love Phi. I don’t love watching other players who plays souls games die to bs when I could’ve intervened. Me and my friends that play tell each other all about the tricks and things to watch out for. There is definitely a portion of the player base that enjoys watching others struggle. I like to think that isn’t the majority. Even when it comes to troll player notes in game, you often have others warning you via their own message. Fromsoft games are all about getting good and fighting through the odds. I like to think most players instill that in their gameplay and behavior
Not liking dark souls is of course completely fine and thinking DS1 boss design is bad and a boring time sink is fair enough but saying there isn't any skill development is wild, there is a lot of trial and error for sure just like there is in both Tekken and Mega-man but just like those games there is a LOT you learn to intuit about bosses and plenty of skills you develop that translate into other souls games and even other games
I struggled hard with DS3 and plenty of bosses were brick walls for me but when I played DS1 for the most part I kinda breezed through it while my buddy who struggled hard in Elden ring recently played DS3 and completely stomped on the same bosses that used to be brick walls for me and this is something you hear a LOT from people when they play their second souls game so clearly there are plenty of transferable skills to learn
And most of your criticisms apply to Tekken aswell, like you yourself mentioned at 20:07 Tekken also has things that go counter to what the game teaches you and you just have to learn through trial and error like how some lows are safe, some throws are unbreakable and all of the many visual discrepancies like how some mids visually hits higher many highs and some lows visually hit lower than some lows but even with the example you gave with Reina that no strings in Tekken that are that long and safe is wrong, at least in Tekken 7 Steve's FLK 1,1,1,2 is a completely safe 4 hit string, the first three hits jail and the last is a safe mid, the only way to punish it is with a parry
Your point about the community also rings pretty hollow when Tekken has one of the most toxic communities in the FGC, basically only beaten by NRS games. Both Tekken and Souls like any large fanbase have toxic assholes for sure but what you said at 19:00 also applies just as much for Souls, just like with Tekken most of the vets are pretty damn wholesome and genuinely just want to help you improve but it does sadly often get spoiled by a vocal minority of toxic people (you touched on this somewhat but I felt it bared mentioning)
Also this doesn't directly dispute anything you said here since DS1 can be very fairly criticized for having really simple boss design with overly simple patterns but let's not dog on memorization as if it's bad design to rely on it, Chess is built on memorization and knowledge checks and is still a fantastic game for it
I think it's a shame your dark souls tirade derailed the entire conversation when everything around it was really good, all in all rare Phi L but still a fan of course
Based Phi Dx
Not a single boss can 1 shot you / combo kill you in Dark Souls 1 unless you didn't level up your health. That just tells me you never really bothered to learn the game or gave it a fair shake & this is coming from someone who doesn't really like Souls games anymore. I prefer Nioh 1 & 2.
Is beating the game not a fair shake?
@@PhiDXUnhinged I mean technically it is a fair shake but some of the things you were saying were flat out wrong. Then again you probably only played it 1 time so that makes sense. It's ok not to like the game & that you don't enjoy the gameplay. I totally understand that. I myself don't really like Souls games anymore. I'm probably burnt out or don't like how it's changed over the years. Not sure. For the record I hated Sekiro. I do agree with you it's more interactive but it felt too much of the same. The only difference you don't dodge, you parry instead. I do agree it's a lot harder than any Souls game.
I really wanna respect your opinion but you're just wrong. The entire point of those games is that they can't be intuitively learned, but instead need to be triumphed through trial and error. That's also the reason why in elden ring the bosses had stupidly delayed attacks to prevent souls vets from intuitively dodging and instead having them learn patterns and encouraging them to try out different play styles. Yeah I'll admit DS1 bosses are kinda lame, but using just one old ass game to represent the entire soulsborne franchise gives an extremely close minded view of the games, especially considering just how different all of them are.
It's totally fine to dislike DS1 or even the entire souls series, but just because you don't get why people enjoy them doesn't mean you need to bitch and whine about it. I don't understand why people spend hundreds of hours playing fighting games but you don't hear me complaining.
I think a lot of people that hate on the souls series just fail to understand that failing is integral to learning, the games are literally built on dying and not giving up, you have to be willing to die and learn to be good at them. I think that there is some intuition you can learn like waiting for an opening and recognizing openings when they come up, but like you said the games aren't meant to be learned intuitively. This video makes him honestly just comes off as a dude who fell for a troll message and now hates the franchise.
I don't think PhiDX is wrong besides the intuition from experience part. I think it is possible to learn some basic things like dodging in the direction that a boss is swinging their weapon to get behind them and take your turn for example, or generally how certain weapon attacks structure their delays and how to position yourself around them. Basic things like that.
But what I found compelling in the video was 14:30, where the different wind-ups really amount to waiting, waiting more, or waiting even more. It's not like Tekken where you can act in a way that allows you to start your turn early on defense (unless you're parrying them, but not even all bosses in fromsoft games can be parried), or Sekiro where there is some leniency in cancelling your attack into block to allow you stay on the offensive-and even parrying a boss' attack will get them closer to death.
While a lot of people are right to point out the intuition part of the video, it's not the main reason that's keeping PhiDX from wanting to play Elden Ring / other fromsoft games. It's the gameplay and the process of learning wind-ups, without much active gameplay for the player to take advantage of in between; it really just boils down to him disliking the passivity, and some aspects of the community. It's telling that he seems to like what he sees of Bloodborne and Sekiro, two of Fromsoft's most aggressive games.
@@acearistocrat749 I understand your argument however I have to disagree, while dark souls 1&2 and arguably demons souls have slower paced, more deliberate combat, pretty much every post-bloodborne fromsoft game has had faster paced and aggressive combat. This is what I mean when I say he's wrong to judge the entire soulsborne series from his experience with just one game.
I still hold the opinion that the point of the game went over his head, as is obvious by the fact that he keeps compering it to tekken and mega man. In those games the fun comes from mastering their combat systems and using that mastery to be able to adapt to different challenges, the fun in souls games comes from the fact that every time you fight a new boss or enter an area for the first time, you have to learn all their different aspects regardless of how well you performed in the last bossfight/area. If all the bosses had similar attacks and learning one attack pattern could help you beat all the others, the game would cease to be difficult after the first couple areas/bosses.
If he doesn't want to play elden ring, I respect that decision, but he shouldn't be shitting on us for enjoying something he doesn't understand.
@@tazah101 You're correct in that series gradually has faster combat, I've played them and have seen the pace increase-but there's a world of difference between the fast-paced nature of a game like Sekiro and Bloodborne vs. Dark Souls / Elden Ring.
I think you describe the appeal of fromsoft games well; in general I think, fromsoft games intend for you to use everything in your arsenal to beat them, and gets a lot deeper when you explore resistances/weaknesses, consumables, in addition to learning attack patterns-however, that may not make someone that already dislikes the more passive & deliberate gameplay of souls games suddenly enjoy them, right?
I don't think he's shitting on souls fans for enjoying the game, what made you feel that way? I watched the video and I didn't take it like that. In the end, it's just him describing his preferences and hang ups with the game because people have been asking him to play Elden Ring. Giving reasons for why he doesn't tend to like souls-games is a fair response.
@@acearistocrat749 You're right to say the DS trilogy and elden ring are not as fast paced as sekiro or bloodborne, however I do think there is a big leap in speed between the first two dark souls games and the third thanks to faster animations and more rolling I frames, also because of how overpowered dex builds are the game nudges you into a more aggressive playstyle (as opposed to DS1 and 2 where you're pretty much railroaded into a sword and shield build from the start). As for elden ring, the amount of build variety in that game means that the pace of combat is pretty much in the player's hands. But considering that bleed builds have been dominating the meta from the start and how near the endgame and in the DLC bosses will be attacking so fast you can barely get a few heals in, it's safe to say it falls into the same category as DS3.
I just felt like it was kind of unnecessary for him to call out the souls community like that just because he had a bad experience. Similarly to how the anime community gets a bad reputation because of shippers and powerscalers and such who only make up a small percentage of the community, there is a vocal minority of souls tryhards who make it their life's work to ruin everybody's day. But if that's such a big issue then why not just play offline?
I actually think if he gave elden ring a try he might actually enjoy it a lot, but I understand if he doesn't want to do that since playing a game just to prove your own negative bias will only lead to frustration.
I saw a Steam thread poster seething about Seamless Co-op after the Elden Ring's DLC update. Seamless Co-op is a mod with which you can play in multiplayer with friends, tackling the whole game without having to worry about invasions or your co-op buddies being sent back to their world after a boss kill or after moving to a different region. I have friends that are very new to Souls games and want to play specifically with friends, but I try to stay lower level with them. We often get invaded with people who have meta PvP kits and who are much higher level if we're not using Seamless Co-op.
The OP was really happy to see that Seamless Co-op was temporarily not working because of the DLC update and they expressed their hopes that it would either never work again or, better yet, that the mod developer would receive a cease and desist notice from FromSoft or something. They were really annoyed at how people wanted to bypass a critical game component (invasions and PvP). Funnily enough, Miyazaki has expressed that they might make changes to their multiplayer system in future games, taking inspiration from mods like Seamless Co-op. I don't exactly remember the quote but it was something along those lines.
I think there's a massive component of the community that doesn't really want people to go through pain and BS, at least not in a malicious way. The jump messages can be a pain, probably much more so in Dark Souls 1 than it is in Elden Ring. The part of the community that finds joy in it has a spectrum to it, and I think the OP of that Steam thread is part of the truly problematic part. Someone who would not only want you to deal with hardship and misfortune in the game, but would legally restrict you from bypassing it if they could, and at the same time want to literally BE the mechanic they want to force on you. That kind of person enjoys being the invader, being much more OP or at least able to win, and wants to fuck you up right before the boss fog gate. You, probably someone who's already on your 20th try with the boss.
I think that people like that really need a mindset shift. Mods have generally only gone a long way to breathing new life into a game for people who have played it out enough or change things up for someone when the base game just doesn't click with them. It hasn't caused major issues in the community. It hasn't made multiplayer match-making or PvP die out to any notice-able degree. Someone like that just wants you to play an already hard game exactly the way they want you to play it, especially if they get to be the ones to make it worse for you directly.
What a sad, cowardly and coping essay you wrote. The whole point of invasions is to counter the increases that a host gets through either summoning help, summoning coopers, being embered or having humanity in the older games. Also, people being sent back after they help you with a boss IS A GOOD THING, because it allows you to play with a larger variety of players instead of storming through the game with one set of overlevelled phantoms. IDK why yall want this to be an easy mode coop focused game like Destiny or Monster Hunter; the invasion and coop systems already present are part of the design and vision philosophy of the Souls series.
The coop also allowing stuff like horseriding and optional invasion severely limits multiplayer functions; the game just wasn't built to function like that. There's a reason they had to reduce the player limit from 6 to 4 in ER. Also, IDK what you mean by "jumping messages", do you mean the light-hearted trolling messages of "jump here" to trick people into thinking there's a secret there? It's like yall want to go into a community and completely gut the series and what makes it unique and popular just so you don't have to deal with any of the challenges that exist in said game community.
You're the one who needs a mindset shift. I don't go into Street Fighter or Tekken communities and ask for their games to be easier and more intuitive; I took the time to learn them from square 0 and learn every morsel of info like I did for the Souls games.
Like, I love people using this argument over and over of "I'm helping an underleveled new player, and these invaders keep mollywhopping us so invaders need to be nerfed more!" First off, invaders were nerfed going into ER; the only way to get invaded is to be in a coop session with one or 2 people helping you, meaning you always have the numbers advantage. The host can use a rune arc, has more heals, summons who can use healing incants and don't have friendly fire like invaders.
Second, the host can turn on the blue cipher ring to have unlimited blues to come save you from the scary invader! The host can also resummon their coopers if they're coordinating and near the site of grace. They also nerfed most of the tools invaders have to get ganking hosts and gank squads off of them, and with the garbage poise system means that coopers can "blender" an invader while they're staggered and one-shot them.
So TLDR, there's nothing you should be complaining about when it comes to invaders. If you lost it's your fault; grow up and stop wanting everything to cater to you. Hosts have all the advantages in their favor, even MORE SO than past games, and people still complain and want to remove invasions. What, so you can storm through the PVE stunlocking every enemy and not worrying about anything?
@@Blittsplitt5 The *host* in this case is both so new to the game and such a casual gamer that he dies to Soldiers of Godrick pretty often at this point. Also, it's not about helping him. He wants to have fun playing the game throughout with someone else. Like I said, some people want to play the game differently and some people legitimately just want people to play a game the way they want them to play. And, *like I said* , I play underleveled with no armor and an un-upgraded weapon *so that we don't* breeze through PvE content and I try to encourage him to be active in combat, even if we die often. I never carry him. I don't want him to lose that experience. But even with him dying just as much as the average player (if not more, tbh), PvP makes him not want to play the game.
I really hope this sticks, too. Both points are make are just as important: 1.) we don't breeze through content and I don't carry him. Lots of content I see with people playing with friends on first playthroughs have them messing about and dying a billion times. 2.) He doesn't like how PvP feels in this equation. It doesn't make him want to play the game when he's already dealing with such a massive learning curve and he shouldn't be forced to play the way other people want him to play. Anyone who would make a thread happy-seething about the idea that people will be forced to play their way has an issue or two they have to sort out.
elden ring is actually just this but much worse lol people mentioning Malenia not doing this are... wrong? she's like the core of this concept.
the 'maybe they'll switch to a 4th delayed move' thing mentioned was rare in DS1 but is now standard for practically every boss, and combo strings are now 8+ moves long instead with switchups during movesets.
it's anti-intuition and more or less pure memorization. they're actually just as easy to dodge and memorize as ever, it's just longer wait times.
the RPG aspects are also much more pronounced now. with ashes, summons, leveling, magic, blessings, there's about a hundred ways to make the game easier in an external way that doesn't involve you getting better at it.
not that there's anything wrong with any of that honestly. people enjoy it for what it is and that's kinda great. the only real problem is the ultra-elitist 'git gud' part of the community that gets off on suffering and likes to look down on everyone that doesn't play identically to them under the same limitations and responds to every issue brought up with the boss design with "you're just bad at the game". it's effectively impossible to criticize any aspect without people looking down on you.
it's pretty much the epitome of the 'success based mindset' that you go over the video with. "if you're not succeeding the exact way i am, maybe there's something wrong with you"
remember everyone failing is integral to succeeding this is why these games are built on that.
Dark souls 1 is definitely overrated, it was so jank and bonfires near the bosses in the newer games is definitely the right approach
I finished DS1 and DS3 and DLCs
I think Sekiro is pretty cool
I wanna try Armored Core
My opinion should not change your enjoyment of the games you like ❤
i think you played the game with a wrong mindset. there's way too much you got wrong. walk back are no longer an issue cuz shortcuts and stake of marica. plus we like it when noobs fall for something because we want to relive that experience. there's alot more to experiment with in these game. there's probably stuff that you alrdy heard of but succeeding 1st try bosses isn't rly a thing in fromsoft game. try it with a friend or a guide and you might have a much more enjoyable experience. if your not enjoying it try it in a different view. you have all the tools you just gotta figure it out which is kinda like tekken. you can win just gotta know how.
you know, I was gonna write a comment about how intuition is actually huge in fromsoft, but no, actually, you’re kinda right. Ceaseless Discharge, Seath, Nito, Bed of Chaos, and Four Kings are all just kinda bullshit. Dark Souls 3 is much better about having intuitive gameplay though, with bosses like Dancer and Abyss Watchers having the bosses clearly telegraph their moves but still being fast and sketchy.
Wow, it's almost like the game from 2011 had dated mechanics compared to a game from 2016... who would've thought!!!!!
I love how people cherrypick the gimmick or less intuitive bosses from Demons or Dark Souls 1, then say "all Dark Souls bosses are just bs and there's no way to figure them out other than dying for 5 hours!!" As if DS1 and even DS2 and Bloodborne don't have the simplest bosses ever created, making Elden Ring look like a fighting game or DMC because of how fast and mobile the bosses are now..
@@Blittsplitt5 Notice how all of the bosses they mention are all from the same section of the game? It's not just its age, Dark Souls was a _rushed_ game, and this led to numerous problems with the boss fights in the latter half of the game. Ceaseless and Bed of Chaos are the most obvious examples of this, but the others are like that as well. I'm surprised they didn't bring up Centipede Demon, IMO that boss is more bullshit than Ceaseless is, but it's from the same section of the game.
phi basing his entire argument off the experimental stage of soulsborne series (ds1)
fromdrones inbound
Nah, Phi got the right of Dark Souls. It’s like certain Sonic games where they put a pit after a spring.
You didn’t really get better once you jump, you just learned the stage
what you said about dark souls 1 100% true, I would love to see you play elden ring, I'm souls fan and I started player tekken 8 I love it and I suck at it I'm stuck ay cavalry and tekken8 is way more harder then any game I have played, sefu is bit closer to tekken8 in difficulty, one more thing I don't love game because the're hard
a quiter will never finish school. quitnt dark souls says it all. when going gets tough. quitera quit. copium is strong with this one.
Phidix cause drama for veiws lol. Well played.
MM1 was not fun lol. MM2 was a huge overhaul. But going back to MM, it's very similar to DS. Both games are heavily built on trial and error. MM at least gave you a checkpoint before the boss admittedly. Future DS games would also adopt this.
only truth bombs 💣💣💣💣
So...because of childhood trauma? Dang son!
You said everything right in this video. Don't let the them gaslight you into thinking your yapping! They're just mad that you called you it out.
Fkn hate dark souls. My friend sold me on it by saying it's hard like ninja Gaiden which I was obsessed with. Absolutely hated dark souls. Tried again with Ellen ring still hate it.
If I don't care about or are interested in a game series, I just bother following it. If you don't follow Dark Souls then why even say you hate it? Just... don't play the games? No one is forcing you to play them or have an opinion on them.
Like, Elden Ring isn't my favorite of the series, so I beat the DLC and just moved on from it permanently. There are tons of games that have less intuition, less vague quests or mechanics than the Souls games or ER, but everyone just gripes about those without having any context at all. No the games aren't perfect, but they're definitely a cut above the rest.
I get asked to play it every day LOL
Git gud
I strongly disagree with this vid. That said i think I'll explain what i see DS1 as compared to Sekiro and Fromsofts other games as opposed to debating your valid opinion.
Imo DS1 is a game about knowledge, environmental awarness and discovery. DS1 is a very easy game when compared to anything else From ever made aside for Demon Souls which has the same design philosophy.
These games are like booting up very old fashioned dungeon crawlers and games like Kings Field, which i know is well outside your action reflex bubble Phi. In these old games you had to pay close attention to the environment, navigation, and traps. Some areas were flat out unfair until you got a specific item, or did a specific thing.
For people who like these kinds of games, the satisfaction comes not from mastering a combat system, but from learning the inns and outs of a hostile alien place and being able to trivialize it. Yes, that's a "knowledge check" but for people who like these old fashioned games thats the point.
I can't stand later Fromsoft games because they've sanded down the sense of adventure and discovery. Now, their later games lean more into reflex tests where you do turn based combat with the enemy, where you dodge or parry all their stuff before hitting with one or two slaps. Yes Bloodborne and Sekiro are better cause they make that style of gameplay more engaging with better defensive and reversal options, but imo its not what i want from games with fundamentally simplistic combat systems compared to something like DMC5.
In DS1 or Demon Souls when you walked through fog, you didn't know what the boss was gonna be. "Gimmick" bosses that were all about knowledge checks were like every other boss. Now you know exactly what waits behind the fog in Elden Ring, its another twitchy reflex test.
I highly suggest you watch MatthewMattosis's video "The Lost Soul Arts of Demon's Souls" fpr a fresh perspective of the series that echoes my thoughts.
Ultimately, i fully get having specific preferences and opinions, which is why im simply trying to explain the appeal for someone like me, and not shut you down for having your own perspective
Not gonna lie, I'm like looking into the mirror here and either you are just making excuses or it's just not something you were really into or made for you simply.
Of course I may never want to play those games, win, and get good etc... I wish you good luck though.
I adore FromSoftware games but I've never felt your sentiment more strongly than with the newest elden ring DLC. By the time I got to the final boss I'd almost completely lost interest, I knew it was just gonna be 2 hours of banging my head against the wall so I looked up a cheese build for the first time ever. And then when you mention to someone that you've played all these games and think the bosses in the DLC are just tedious, it's actually because you don't know how to play the game and need to get good. It just turns into an opportunity to dick wag for the most pathetic people who take immense pride in suffering for hours in a video game designed to make you suffer.
Just use a mimic then if the bosses are too hard for you. Why "bang your head against the wall" when you dont need to? Elden Ring including the dlc are both created to be as difficult as you want them to be. When using a +10 mimic, Elden Ring, including the DLC becomes *very* easy.
Arnt you actually the one trying to dick wag to yourself by “banging your head against the wall” instead of just using a summons to make the boss manageable?
I beat base Elden Ring and I don't have any interest in this dlc.
@@CrimsonicStormit's actually incredible that through your inclination to reflexively defend this game you've managed to not comprehend that you are literally the insufferable, pathetic person I and phidx are referring to. I know how the game works, I got the platinum trophy for the base game and only summoned for duo bosses because that was the only time that summoning didn't make the game completely trivial, this is not a "skill issue" it's a taste issue. And to answer your dumbass suggestion directly, if you had actually gotten to the final boss in the DLC yet you would know that summoning actually makes the fight harder unless you already have an insane cheese build because of how his health scales in combination with his damage.
Honestly yeah the final boss of ER dlc is insane
Skill issue, ur just bad.
i basically agree and quibbling on details is how souls fans maintain the cope that they're a sophisticated breed, that it's basically like reading literature to beat gwyn, and that people who don't enjoy their game just don't get it. souls design is, inadvertently, a form of hazing that breeds this kind of unearned in-on-the-secret attitude. if you criticise it they don't engage with the criticism they just tell you your build or setup is wrong for the encounter, or that you need an attitude adjustment. they find it physically impossible to engage on any higher level of abstraction. the urge to quibble abt this or that point without seeing ur larger point is part of this. they are institutionalised quibblers. speaking from personal experience. it rlly warps ur ability to see the value in other design philosophies, and just becomes a license to be insufferable
Agree on the Dark Souls slander pretty much. That game is not actually designed to the standards people have today. The boss runbacks are atrocious and some mechanics are extremely outdated. The developers know about this, which is why recent FromSoft games are more forgiving about those aspects (i.e.: The boss save point is right outside the door, you can move while drinking Health potions, and there are summons). The boss are still hard, but there are a lot of ways to go around that now, and I think its the beauty of Souls games. You don't have to grind your ass to remember all the bosses BS cuz there are lots of way to tackle them. And I totally agree on the hardcore fanbase of the Souls game. They want to see other people go through the bs they had to go through and they refuse to believe other wise. Overall good takes Phi!
TLDR: DS1 kinda bad but kinda good. And souls fans are kinda dicks
Isn't that just the natural progression though when looking at a developers first game to their 4th, 5th and 6th games? I would hope Fromsofts games would have gotten better over the years, thats part of the point when creating future titles: its accepting consumers feedback (what people liked and didnt like) and then adjusting things for future titles which is what they have done. Elden Ring and Sekiro are fantastic titles.
Well yeah of course it isn't. Demon's Souls is 15 years old, Dark Souls 1 is 13 years old lol. Standards a decade ago are different to now. Or do people play Tekken 8 the same that they did Tekken Tag 2?
What a lame comment. Souls fans are not dicks, people coming into the Souls community telling them how the game should work like others are the dicks. And no shit games like DS2 and before, that came out a decade ago, have older mechanics like boss runbacks and no jumping... what a stupid critique. There were summons in DS2 onwards, and some bosses in DS1, again no idea what you're crying about.
You couldn't be more wrong, too bad Dark Souls didn't click with you but you clearly don't get it.
as someone who enjoys tekken and dark souls a lot i have to disagree especially in later souls ganes tge learning curve is almost identical with how ppl learn ss and other timing based mechanics. this take is prolly cause ur a filthy lili main 🫵🏾 on a more serious note tho its all boils down to learning how turns work in said games