I thank you guys for prefacing everything with clarifying that where you’re coming from is your opinions, cuz, while sad and pathetic, a vast majority of the SW discourse since like 2018 has indeed been a reductive and toxic kind of, “I’m right, and you’re wrong” bullshit. So thank you for already not engaging with that. The following is, likewise, my thoughts: -10:13, I’d argue JJ was the first to do this when we factor in how TFA picked up from where RotJ left off. And given how TFA was indeed very much a carbon(ite) copy of ANH, I don’t at all blame Rian for doing the ethical thing in that context, and trying to steer the trilogy aware from just rehashing the OT… even though with JJ taking over Ep. IX, that largely ended up what happened anyway… -10:48, I agree with this to an extent, but compared to JJ, Rian did a good job of at least making his subversions of what was previously established… actually substantive and meaningful. There were some definitive things however, where Rian just blatantly dropped the ball, like Snoke having mentioning how he would now complete Kylo’s training at the end of TFA, or far more egregious: TLJ’s handling of Hux. Everyone loves to bitch and moan about Luke in TLJ, but Hux is the actual character Rian ruined. He felt like a legitimate threat in TFA, but was more of a bumbling buffoon in TLJ, a mere caricature rather than character. -11:01, the loud hatemongers of the internet have largely pushed the narrative through selective editing and whatnot that Mark Hamill disliked Luke in TLJ, or TLJ in general, but there’s all of this to counter that: “I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public. Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one!” -Mark Hamill - 12/26/2017 “I'm really enjoying the conversations about #TheLastJedi both Pro AND Con. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion-but let me make thing perfectly clear: Neither @Disney or #Lucasfilm has complained or told me what to say-EVER. #PeriodEndOfStory-mh” -Mark Hamill - 12/29/2017 (This one’s original source was on FB IIRC:) (another user) Every time Mark opens his mouth it's clearer how much disdain he has for Rian Johnson (Mark) Not so. Even when we disagreed, I respected him as a filmmaker & a friend. - 03/28/2019 (I also had pictures of other stuff Mark has said, but I legit have no idea how to send pictures via RUclips comments. 😅) -11:52, preach, brother. 😅 -13:01, you and me (and just about everything SW fan) both, man. With Disney already having the blueprint for success with the MCU at the time, they had no excuse not to AT LEAST plot out the ST FAR more than they did, which was essentially not at all. They should have either had all the writers/directors collaborating throughout the entire process, or the SAME writing/directing team, even if that was essentially just one person, throughout. -13:26, I fully disagree. I think JJ fucked over Rian far more than Rian fucked over-at the time-Trevorrow. JJ left Ep. 8 with EXTREMELY tight parameters to work with, and a buttload of stupid mystery boxes to try to answer, most important and glaring of which was why Luke was AFK, and not helping the galaxy during its time of turmoil. Whereas Rian left Ep. 9 with quite the opposite, with boundless opportunity, freed from the shackles of repeating the beats of the OT, which is why it’s so criminal what JJ did once he was given the reigns for 9. And if you check out the script Colin Trevorrow had for Ep. 9, it did a fantastic job following where TLJ left off, and seemed like night and day difference incomparably better than TRoS. -14:39, dang. Interesting. I absolutely felt this upon even my first watch, and it’s a criticism I’ve never actually heard voiced before, including from myself, but I completely agree with this as a valid criticism m for TLJ. Hearing legit criticism is always refreshing to me concerning TLJ, given so much of the discourse was (and still is) people conflating their mere preferences for criticisms, or blaming on the movie something that was really just an issue of them simply not paying enough attention. -17:13, PRETTY sure it’s mentioned they suspect there might be a spy/mole among them. Given that, and Poe’s previous mistake ignoring Leia’s orders (whom Holdo respects), which cost them, and then his subsequent demotion, while we as the audience know Poe’s a good guy… Holdo doesn’t know that, and furthermore, to her, he’s proven himself to be unreliable and even reckless on numerous occasions. So it’s completely believable why she didn’t divulge the plans to him. -18:02, yeah, I think the Canto Bight sideplot was one of the weakest elements of TLJ and felt at least kinda off and bad to most fans, including even those of us who liked or loved TLJ. That whole part suffered from being a bit too bloated, and then poor editing, leaving us bogged down in that sideplot for far too prolonged of a time. Most agree it’s one of the weakest parts of the movie for sure. I reject the notion that it was pointless though, depending on what one means by that. Like, in lore, and the bigger picture, sure, their attempts were ultimately fruitless, but in terms of the scriptwriting, it wasn’t pointless at all. It furthered Finn’s character and also was how The First Order was made aware (through DJ) of The Resistance’s plan, thus forcing them to change plans, and make a kind of last stand on Crait. -19:05, THANK YOU. This is another criticism that I’ve noticed no one mention, but it seemed super glaring to me at least. Again, I wish the haters would bring up the actual criticisms like this rather than BS ones. -20:19, completely agree with you guys on the kiss being unnecessary. That said, I hardly thing it’s all that bad, I just hate that the wall gets exploded in the background AS they kiss so that it looks like fireworks are going off as they kiss. How it SHOULD have happened is that she kisses him, there’s a beat where it’s ever so slightly awkward, and then the wall getting exploded takes them out of it, and it shows them trying to get to the trenches or something to get back, before cutting to the next bit of the action. 🤷♂️ -Fully agree on Rey being a ‘nobody.’ I REALLY liked that, and LOATHED when TRoS effectively retconned that. Feel like most of the people who prefer Rey being Palpatine’s essentially granddaughter also preferred the PT, and those of us who preferred Rey being a ‘nobody’ prefer the OT. 🤷♂️ That ain’t true in every case of course, but I’m pretty sure this is mostly true, at least based on my own observations over the years arguing Star Wars online. 😅 -Again, thank you guys for leading with ethical discourse on the matter. It’s sadly rare these days within the online Star Wars community. You’ve earned a sub. 👍
BTW, if you have any interest in touching another Star Wars hotbed of controversy, I’d love your guys’ take on The Acolyte! I personally loved it, and while I definitely agree it wasn’t perfect, I think the show was doomed from the start via its obscene budget and how, due to where the fandom is right now (super toxic), the show was never going to get the ratings it would need to justify a 2nd season, again, given its budget.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I thank you guys for prefacing everything with clarifying that where you’re coming from is your opinions, cuz, while sad and pathetic, a vast majority of the SW discourse since like 2018 has indeed been a reductive and toxic kind of, “I’m right, and you’re wrong” bullshit. So thank you for already not engaging with that.
The following is, likewise, my thoughts:
-10:13, I’d argue JJ was the first to do this when we factor in how TFA picked up from where RotJ left off. And given how TFA was indeed very much a carbon(ite) copy of ANH, I don’t at all blame Rian for doing the ethical thing in that context, and trying to steer the trilogy aware from just rehashing the OT… even though with JJ taking over Ep. IX, that largely ended up what happened anyway…
-10:48, I agree with this to an extent, but compared to JJ, Rian did a good job of at least making his subversions of what was previously established… actually substantive and meaningful. There were some definitive things however, where Rian just blatantly dropped the ball, like Snoke having mentioning how he would now complete Kylo’s training at the end of TFA, or far more egregious: TLJ’s handling of Hux. Everyone loves to bitch and moan about Luke in TLJ, but Hux is the actual character Rian ruined. He felt like a legitimate threat in TFA, but was more of a bumbling buffoon in TLJ, a mere caricature rather than character.
-11:01, the loud hatemongers of the internet have largely pushed the narrative through selective editing and whatnot that Mark Hamill disliked Luke in TLJ, or TLJ in general, but there’s all of this to counter that:
“I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public. Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one!”
-Mark Hamill - 12/26/2017
“I'm really enjoying the conversations about #TheLastJedi both Pro AND Con. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion-but let me make thing perfectly clear: Neither @Disney or #Lucasfilm has complained or told me what to say-EVER. #PeriodEndOfStory-mh”
-Mark Hamill - 12/29/2017
(This one’s original source was on FB IIRC:)
(another user) Every time Mark opens his mouth it's clearer how much disdain he has for Rian Johnson
(Mark) Not so. Even when we disagreed, I respected him as a filmmaker & a friend.
- 03/28/2019
(I also had pictures of other stuff Mark has said, but I legit have no idea how to send pictures via RUclips comments. 😅)
-11:52, preach, brother. 😅
-13:01, you and me (and just about everything SW fan) both, man. With Disney already having the blueprint for success with the MCU at the time, they had no excuse not to AT LEAST plot out the ST FAR more than they did, which was essentially not at all. They should have either had all the writers/directors collaborating throughout the entire process, or the SAME writing/directing team, even if that was essentially just one person, throughout.
-13:26, I fully disagree. I think JJ fucked over Rian far more than Rian fucked over-at the time-Trevorrow. JJ left Ep. 8 with EXTREMELY tight parameters to work with, and a buttload of stupid mystery boxes to try to answer, most important and glaring of which was why Luke was AFK, and not helping the galaxy during its time of turmoil. Whereas Rian left Ep. 9 with quite the opposite, with boundless opportunity, freed from the shackles of repeating the beats of the OT, which is why it’s so criminal what JJ did once he was given the reigns for 9. And if you check out the script Colin Trevorrow had for Ep. 9, it did a fantastic job following where TLJ left off, and seemed like night and day difference incomparably better than TRoS.
-14:39, dang. Interesting. I absolutely felt this upon even my first watch, and it’s a criticism I’ve never actually heard voiced before, including from myself, but I completely agree with this as a valid criticism m for TLJ. Hearing legit criticism is always refreshing to me concerning TLJ, given so much of the discourse was (and still is) people conflating their mere preferences for criticisms, or blaming on the movie something that was really just an issue of them simply not paying enough attention.
-17:13, PRETTY sure it’s mentioned they suspect there might be a spy/mole among them. Given that, and Poe’s previous mistake ignoring Leia’s orders (whom Holdo respects), which cost them, and then his subsequent demotion, while we as the audience know Poe’s a good guy… Holdo doesn’t know that, and furthermore, to her, he’s proven himself to be unreliable and even reckless on numerous occasions. So it’s completely believable why she didn’t divulge the plans to him.
-18:02, yeah, I think the Canto Bight sideplot was one of the weakest elements of TLJ and felt at least kinda off and bad to most fans, including even those of us who liked or loved TLJ. That whole part suffered from being a bit too bloated, and then poor editing, leaving us bogged down in that sideplot for far too prolonged of a time. Most agree it’s one of the weakest parts of the movie for sure.
I reject the notion that it was pointless though, depending on what one means by that. Like, in lore, and the bigger picture, sure, their attempts were ultimately fruitless, but in terms of the scriptwriting, it wasn’t pointless at all. It furthered Finn’s character and also was how The First Order was made aware (through DJ) of The Resistance’s plan, thus forcing them to change plans, and make a kind of last stand on Crait.
-19:05, THANK YOU. This is another criticism that I’ve noticed no one mention, but it seemed super glaring to me at least. Again, I wish the haters would bring up the actual criticisms like this rather than BS ones.
-20:19, completely agree with you guys on the kiss being unnecessary. That said, I hardly thing it’s all that bad, I just hate that the wall gets exploded in the background AS they kiss so that it looks like fireworks are going off as they kiss. How it SHOULD have happened is that she kisses him, there’s a beat where it’s ever so slightly awkward, and then the wall getting exploded takes them out of it, and it shows them trying to get to the trenches or something to get back, before cutting to the next bit of the action. 🤷♂️
-Fully agree on Rey being a ‘nobody.’ I REALLY liked that, and LOATHED when TRoS effectively retconned that. Feel like most of the people who prefer Rey being Palpatine’s essentially granddaughter also preferred the PT, and those of us who preferred Rey being a ‘nobody’ prefer the OT. 🤷♂️
That ain’t true in every case of course, but I’m pretty sure this is mostly true, at least based on my own observations over the years arguing Star Wars online. 😅
-Again, thank you guys for leading with ethical discourse on the matter. It’s sadly rare these days within the online Star Wars community. You’ve earned a sub. 👍
BTW, if you have any interest in touching another Star Wars hotbed of controversy, I’d love your guys’ take on The Acolyte! I personally loved it, and while I definitely agree it wasn’t perfect, I think the show was doomed from the start via its obscene budget and how, due to where the fandom is right now (super toxic), the show was never going to get the ratings it would need to justify a 2nd season, again, given its budget.