I was at Berklee from 86-88. It was tough learning that I was someone with low musical aptitude. I also had very little musical training. I am the slowest learning musician that I know. So I had to work much harder for much less knowledge and I had to let go of certain dreams (I’m still not a world class jazz musician) BUT ...... these are things we need to learn. I had to find my own way, and I did. After Berklee I gave up music for a year or so...... but since then I came to the realization that I still wanted to learn and play, and that set me on a goal of practicing every day for at least two hours. Decades later I still do. The key for me was not letting my learning disabilities get me down (I have short term memory disorder so learning even simple tunes takes years) I was laughed at on gigs many times by other musicians for not knowing tunes, but I made a promise to myself to never apologize for not knowing something as long as I was trying hard every day.
Thank you for sharing the story of your journey/struggle/adventure and much respect for carrying on despite the difficulties you faced. This is an example, to me, of the positive side of internet commentary: we gather around the virtual campfire and share our stories and inspire and encourage each other in the process...
As a current Berklee student I am happy to say that this is not how the school is anymore. Berklee is very open to all styles of music now even pop music. There are definitely still students who think in the way you speak of but most are doing whatever suits them best personally. The teachers encourage us to explore our own musical growth in ways that suit us the best and there’s room to pursue things the things we want
@@melodic21 from my experience it's been great. I've learned so much from the professors and fellow students. It also fit my schedule a lot better allowing me to work and not move to Boston. I've loved every professor I've had and every course I've taken. Compared to my last college which was roughly half the price per course I only enjoyed half the courses and the other half I despised. You'll more likely develop a lot of skills and still have some rough patches, since on campus you will practice in ensembles a lot (meaning you get to play with other musicians), and that prepares you for a career in performance pretty well. but online you don't really develop those skills as much. Instead you have to record all your assignments so you actually learn a lot from listening to yourself play. they provide backing tracks for everything so it's kinda a simulation of playing with others, so it's really a different skill set that gets developed. on the positive you can't rewind a live ensemble till you get it right. I believe also that the only private lessons you can get is for guitar majors at the moment so that's one area most music student benefit the most by taking private lessons from their professors. I decided to hire one of my previous professors for private lessons after my course finished to get that same experience. All the courses provide really high quality learning materials, listening examples to develop your ear etc. I've gotten some really helpful feedback from my professors which have made me a much better musician and overall I'm really happy with the experience. I'd say it's a good value for what they're providing. they also have discounts every semester on selected courses up to 300$ off and if you pay for a certificate program all at once you can get an additional 10% off.
Excellent advice. I've graduated from Berklee in 99. Piano. During my second year I've discovered the beauty of classical music. On my third year I found out, hanging out with friends at Boston Conservatory, that classical was another heavy "indoctrination camp". By the end of the third year I was a lonely guy, loving music so much and hating the idea of becoming a "professional musician". Had to teach for a few years to make a living, played awful gigs. That was 16 years ago. I'm back at my "youth", a happy amateur, playing ballads, improvising solo piano, having a friend over to simply play for the fun and love of it. There's more than enough music and noise out there for people to indulge on. Sensory overload in the music and in the arts. An old wise men once said that a variety of girls, of food of music, is all the same. An orgy...
Yes classical music can be a big indoctrination camp. I did expierence this after studying classical guitar on a university in germany. It is now 40 years ago but I was so much in that camp that I thought strumming only chords is nothing. 🤣
@@samyard Oh, yes, strumming is sinful. I've studied some classical at Berklee. I would show up and play Ravel to my teacher, half way I would start improvising, lol. He didn't like that..😂😂😂😂
@@Beyondabsence Ravel like all the other great composers such as Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin etc were excellent improvisors. And the music we have today of all these composers on a piece of paper is like a screenshot of how it could possibly sound
It's the options paralysis, in part. I think we have so much knowledge & resources available to us, that we often make it a substitute for the sense of joy of playing & exploring by doing so. I've fallen into that trap myself, but now I remain focused on exploring music by playing, not the other way around. Naturally, it's taken years to realize that :) Thanks for sharing your experience!
I think it's a mix of humility (understanding we need to grow) and self-esteem (believing we can grow). Most of the times people have one but lack the other.
My Berklee grad confession: the $200,000 tuition is basically an access ticket to an invitation-only social networking group of industry leading figures and people who pretend to be just that. If you're in it for the music, there's nothing you can't learn online or in any community/state school. It was a great experience but not a $200,000 one.
Jazz music education is a business for the establishments selling the courses. Music is about personal development, sharing experiences and communication. As a friend of mine, a top class soprano player, says - you need enough technique to say what you want to say. The pursuit of technique in and of itself is meaningless and potentially counter-productive. Now in my seventies, I have great fun busking with a friend of mine (Steve on tenor, me on soprano) playing everything from standards, through pop, gotan, blues, funk. I now play almost exclusively by ear. Steve starts a track and I just start playing. NO, I don’t have perfect pitch but somehow the fingers find the notes and the groove. Thanks NIck for sharing this and for your inspirational materials.
There are still good aspects of modern jazz ed., including these RUclips channels (this channel, Mr Sunny Bass, Backingtracks Jazz, Jens Larsen, Aimee Nolte, etc.) and publishers like Sher Music.
Thank you for writing this! "you need enough technique to say what you want to say"... I find myself getting tired with repeating technical jazz drills over and I er and still not being able to play what I want and it's literally because my practice has been suited to sound like a good jazz musician, not one who can play anything by ear... While theory is good, it can get really stifling at some point.. Thank you for this
Much respect for this gentleman as he proved that being a high class professional is more of a state of mind than having a set of particular skills. Every musician should hear this
Excellent points... these are exactly the problems many "jazz" musicians have faced when they decided to "go mainstream".... Herbie Hancock faced much derision when he shifted to the "Head Hunters" Band.... and each step of growth since then.... there is an elitism that comes somehow inbred into many musicians that keeps them from just going back to the Blues or R&B Roots.... and having fun... their loss I imagine.
Head Hunters is my all-time favorite album...It’s the bedrock of all that I do! That record opened up such amazing new places for me creatively. You’re right - it’s their loss, those who cannot dare to open their minds.
The truth is, most horn players don't play what they hear. They play from muscle memory. That makes it impossible to improvise! The problem is, horns are difficult instrument to truly improvise on, so what you have to do, is play what you scat! Let's say you're practicing to a backing track, record it. Then take that same backing track and Scat to it and record it. I bet 99.9% of Anyone who reads this message and tries it will realize they are not playing what they hear once they try to play along to their scat. It took me 10 years to figure this out. A good practice to do is 2 scat while you're practicing your horn over a backing track, skat a phrase, then play it on your horn. And make sure it's identical! Once you get this concept into your head you will be able to improvise much better without having to scat when you practice. But synchronizing what you hear with your fingers over your horn is extremely difficult. This is why Charlie Parker practiced 15 hours a day for 4 years. and I'm sure he was working on tunes that he wanted to play, and I'm sure he played those Tunes in a schedule for that entire time. the best chance at being able to play what you hear at will over any changes is to learn to play what you hear over many different chord progressions. and many different tempos. and if you ever feel like you're not cutting it with your practicing, start scatting! It will show you that you're mind to Fingers is the problem, and not your musical conception.
I used to teach students how to play by ear. If you want to play in more than one key don't waste your time with a valved instrument. (Unless if you have perfect pitch).
I think it's a bit of both...all of the home practice gives you a basket of licks and ideas to pull from...what you pull from at any given night or tune is the improvising part...picking and choosing ideas at will and allowing the music to play you and not the other way around. This is a skill better developed outside of jazz...in key-centric, modal music like blues, funk soul and jam band....breaking away from the chord centric arpeggio based music that is jazz....
@canniblecannibal carnival I would like to clarify that, since I guess I did not do that well enough. Playing what you scat on your horn allows you to be able to access the fluidity of your conscious mind! I don't have to play what I scat anymore, because my fingers and my conscious are almost in perfect alignment now, and I never know what I'm going to play when I improvise! And for the first time in years, I'm actually almost completely happy with the way I play! And yes, if I know a Melody but have never played it before, or if I hear anything at all, I can pretty much play it right the first time around, like you're supposed to be able to do it! And no, if you improvise right the first idea that comes to your mind will be the best! You don't want to script out a solo, unless you're playing classical music! And even then, Mozart, Beethoven, and Bach we're all improvising musicians , there were just no recording equipment in those days. If there was I'm sure classical music would be entirely different today than it is.
Under different circumstances, the same is true for studying classical music in music school. Regardless of our main style/discipline, we should be well-versed in other styles. Music is a lifetime study. Thanks for your honesty in this video!
You're more than right. As once Billie Holiday said: "there is no good or bad music, there are only good or bad musicians". So, the purists at Berkley should start to enjoy all kind of good music in the world, unless they want to become mummies.
Very honest and insightful video! Thank you for sharing. I was a Berklee student from 1983-1985 (2 year program at the time) and previously studied with a very accomplished jazz and fusion guitarist who invited the likes of Mike Stern to appear on his albums. My sole purpose at Berklee was to become a great jazz guitarist - another Joe Pass. What saved me from becoming a jazz snob was the fact that I needed to make money to stay alive, like most of us, and played in several pop bands as well as general business wedding bands. I was fortunate enough to play with people who explored all genres of music, but more importantly, encouraged band members to explore 'jazz' like techniques and chord structures - up to a degree of course. But I agree that most of the amazing accomplished jazz students at Berklee tended to be jazz purists/snobs and looked down on musicians like myself who 'wasted' their time playing over 1-4 simple chords. Nevertheless, Berklee represents the best time of my life. It was tough to get through all those courses (remember Advanced Ear Training? Goodness!), but it helped set a high standard for learning and performance that still lives in me today. Unfortunately, I was one of those 90% who didn't make it in the music industry, but a day doesn't go by that I do not lock myself in my basement studio after work, write music and play one of my guitars.
Reminded me of Kenny Werner's book Effortless Mastery, which also contains stories like that. This is the knowledge that puts us back on track on why are we even making music after all. Thank you. Takes courage to share all of that with us!
That was fabulous! Thanks for your honest take on your "after Berkley* experiences. Academic study is way different than gigging. Just getting out of that pressure cooker environment forces you to stop playing for grades and actually play music. Good work mate.
In 1984 I was also able to meet with a counselor at Berklee College of Music.. he said I was a slow learner. I just turned 54 and I teach private drum set/theory/audio editing, and will always be a student of life. Thanks for the vid and I totally dug your story!
I don't recall ever hearing an audience member complaining that the musicians aren't playing enough 8th notes, or not enough notes period; they either like it or they don't.
We should be very careful about what we want to learn...if we are blind then more chances we will follow somebody's advice without even knowing where we are travelling.
" Humiliating roast-up " for the win; sometimes a jarring, uncomfortable experience can open us up to greater possibilities...😎 Thanks for sharing your experiences and insights! Definitely sharing this!👍🏽❤
Thank you! Thats a very good thing you did, gonna save some music souls, hope some classical music students hear this too, I've been a victim of that too and just starting my path out of that old mentality, thx again!
i never had the privilege of academical music education but i too started off trying to play jazz as i naively thought "well it's the most complex so i'll automatically cover everything else". but once i started to learn parker licks (nothing wrong with that per say ofc) i started what i call "reciting instead of playing". the reason why i love this channel is because it does something more valuable. trying to grasp music in terms of colors, patterns and concepts. basically giving you the toys and then you're sent off to play. which what imrpovisational music should be about imho. playing around with ideas instead of overpreparing a bunch of specific lines to perfection ending up creating a golden cage for yourself.
First story reminds me of a time when I had a weekly jazz gig for three years. It wasn’t until I picked up a top40 gig and returned to the jazz gig that suddenly had a deeper rhythmic relationship and overall joy of playing. It’s like Jaco saying “yeah but can you play Hendrix?”
I did 2 years on Berklee. Before, i had study on a jazz school in my own country. There they were more close minded than berklee. What's good about berklee is the sistem and the infrastructure. Then, different teachers will have different opinions like in all places. It all comes to what u take of what they offer and having a clear idea of what u want to become as a musician.
Gary Husband es un baterista al que grandes y famosos bateristas se han cansado de robarle ideas, usos y técnicas de su ejecución y nadie dijo nada. Es uno de los mejores músicos que he escuchado!!! Acaso no lo tendrías en tu banda si pudieras? Allan Holdsworth lo eligio.... Y mira de quien estamos hablando!!!! 👍😃🍀
I’ve definitely experienced all of these things in my musical life. “Not enough 8th notes” When I was strictly focusing on bebop I remember that sort of tunnel visioned feeling of listening to nothing else. But there is so much more out there, and being a musical snob, of any genre, only limits ones horizons.
For many years I wished I had studied at Berklee... Now, it feels like my experience (with many of those painful/hazardous moments) led me to find my very personal/original sound particularly on the fretless bass. I went the other way around from you, playing simples things first in gigs and teaching myself theory along the way, feeling many times ignorant... Just the other way from you with one chord improvisation. Knowing too much or too little... Not sure what's less embarrassing! Now I don't care, I enjoy learning and practising every day. Your videos are among the most inspiring on RUclips. Thanks for that.
I’m one of the non geniuses that has had to explore the same musical concepts from many different angles and sources. I’ve learned quite a bit but there are a thousand lifetimes of more music to learn. Very thankful for this video channel, it is one of the most motivating and inspirational places I have been able to receive information and knowledge.
One of the best pieces of advice I've heard, which applies to many areas of life... There's no shame in not knowing something. However, there is shame in not filling in those knowledge gaps once they've been revealed. Or - Being weak is nothing to be ashamed of, but staying weak is. Great video!
Hi, I am an italian pianist jazz student (I am 21 years old) and I study in Conservatory of Naples (Italy). Some years ago I did the 2weeks with Berkley teacher in Umbria. I was so fascinated by this world and my dream is to study in Berkley in Boston someday and I know it is very difficult ‘cause u must be a very great musician to be part of this college and must have lot of money to spend to. Some year ago I had the pleasure to talk with Emanuel Harrold (gregory porter drummer) and I asked him: “what do u think about Berklee? To be a good musician must We study there?” The answer was: “u dont need Berklee, but Berklee needs you”. This was impressive to me... What are you impressions about?
@@luigilombardi3441 eh sì, studiando per tanto tempo un genere in particolare c'è il rischio che ci si soffermi in maniera quasi ossessiva, tralasciando o dando minore importanza (a volte neanche volontariamente) ad altri contesti. Capita pure all'interno del jazz stesso, relativamente alle tante varianti che ci stanno, figuriamoci col resto della musica. Figo sto canale comunque eh? Lo seguo volentieri, oltre a diversi altri; ormai ci trovi tonnellate di roba trattata anche con certo dettaglio
Thanks for sharing this Nick. It's amazing how age can change your perspective. I was too narrow minded also in my youth to appreciate all the talented people outside my genre of choice.
Thanks for sharing! It's very much appreciated. Before I entered the "classical" university-conservatory system, I had learned to play a lot of blues and rock, inspired by the greats such as Hendrix and Clapton. But once I got to university and began studying "serious" music, I came to believe that I needed even to stop listening to those styles of music that I'd grown up with and come to love which weren't in the classical vein. It was only many years later that I came to see that exposure to many different kinds of music only serves to make us better, more well-rounded, and arguably more useful musicians. Fortunately, at least I now get to play pretty much every kind of music I love, and it's reminded why the verb used to denote the making of music is "play"-something we should all be reminded of from time to time. :-)
Closed mindedness is definitely an issue in Jazz. But Berklee is not just a jazz school anymore. Electronic production, engineering, Arabic music ensembles, Indian Music ensemble, etc. Yet whenever Berklee comes up in discussion, even in 2020, Berklee is discussed about what it offered in the 70’s haha. Very good points about the Jazz scene though.
This resonates on so many levels, a genuine outpouring. An enlightening, honest insight into the music world. Your story highlights so many of the issues with music education. Thanks to your channel and others like you, we are approaching a true musical democracy. We cannot afford to live in musical silos, which is hard form some institutions to adapt too! I'm a fully paid up student at the university of RUclips. Thank you, Nick!!
Just like many professions, people on the “in” want to control entry and ego of people not yet “in”. I remember a NY musician telling me that if you bring a fake book or an iPad to a jam or you’ll be laughed off stage, no matter what came out of your horn.
I'm curious about words but I'm far from music&business world and don't quite understand: can you please explain what is wrong in bringing "a fake book or an iPad to a jam"?
Thankfully, there are still persons like you out there! You are open-minded, honest, courageous and an altruistic intellectual musician! I admire you and your work; your RUclips channel, your website and your instructional materials; I also like your sound on sax. You gained my sincere respect! Please, never give up!
Hi! I can really understand what you're saying here. When I was a teenager I dreamed about attending Berklee or Git, but I live in Sicily and it was totally impossible. I studied Jazz guitar at Palermo conservatory and modern guitar in Percentomusica private academy in Rome. When I started studying in Palermo (with has a pretty good jazz scene), I came from a background of playing fusion, progressive and just one year playing classic jazz. I was blasted by the teacher for this. They said to me that electric instruments was the death of jazz. Now I laugh about all of this, but at the time I was really confused. This made me thinking about what I really cared about the study I was getting in. And I kwew that I wanted to know and understand jazz as a language, not as the end of my musical journey. I also met, lot of maestros with did study at Berkley, and although I respected them a lot for their preparation, I couldn't not think that their knowledge was somehow sterile and "globalized" to a very precise way of playing stuff. And I actually think that this globalized way of thinking is pretty good to prepare other students, but must be contextualized if you won't be a "classic jazz player" in your future but something more. And the problem is, that there aren't school that teach that "something more" it has to come to you and to your capacity to put in music where your minds really want to go. Thanks for those thoughts, they really may help young musician get better direction fort their studies.
Hey Nick.... Really enjoyed listening to your confessions. I can relate my musical friend. You know, I am 67 and have been playing off and on for almost 60 years. My best learning experiences were always a result of failure on my part. Two come to mind. I was touring with Johnny Lytle, a great jazz vibe player. During a rehearsal he expressed to me strongly in front of everyone, that I couldn't solo. You know, he was right. I never forgot that and I strive to always play my best when I do solo. The other time I remember, I was playing a gig with Hammond B3 organist Jimmie Foster. A fantastic player. I took the first solo which was a groove in concert G. After 16 bars he modulated up to G#. I wasn't very familiar with G#, so the great solo I had played turned very ugly. I was so embarrassed in front of a full house. Guess what? The next day I started working on all the keys I was not familiar with. Really expanded my playing. I did not go to college for music, however beginning in the 5th grade, I learned to play the saxophone in the school band and orchestra. After I graduated, I played professionally with Rock and Funk bands. I learned how to improvise using mainly blues and pentatonic scales. Even though at 19 Coltrane and Miles changed my life, I could not play bebop. To me the most important aspect of playing music is melody, mood and emotion. Even to this day, I do not consider myself a Jazz player, but a music creator. I just released my 1st Smooth Jazz LP. Creating it was one of the best musical experiences of my life. Words cannot express the deep emotional feelings I experienced while creating my own original music. Even though I do practice at least 2 hours a day, I know I will never be a Coltrane, but I am me and am satisfied with that.... Thank you Nick for sharing your experiences.
I have to admit that as a non-jazz musician and without context I just can't wrap my head around that one. Maybe 8ths in the song were decently fast? Or did they just want more "jazzy" runs in there, or what? Do you know? I'm honestly curious :DD I have no idea
Thank you. Important and refreshing to hear honest talk. Remarkably, I was at Berklee same time as you, and and your narrative brings it back - some nostalgic and some painful. And I too have experienced a shameful post Berklee gig for which I still have PTSD. Yes there are advantages to getting old.
Thank you for your honesty Nick. Boy did that bring up some memories! But: it's those experiences that have made the musician, mentor and all round inspiring man you are today. Cheers!
Typically the more elitist the musicians in the genre, the fewer people want to hear that genre (which causes insecurity in the musicians, causing elitism - because how can anyone not see the beauty in theoretical and technical superiorty over other genres that may or may not be to someones' taste?)
I'm going through a similar experience right now. How is it that after playing several years that I could not by ear play a common march like Battle Hymn of the Republic. I can play hendrix cream etc but could not fart out the correct phrasing of a simple march. So I got the music. The simplicity! we have all heard it. but that is the point! My blues purist arrogance. Music is Music. Music goes beyond the instrument and past the voice.
Modesty is the hallmark of the great. The longer the Quest, and the more labour of love put into the daily practice, the humbler you get because the mountain gets higher every day. The summit is just a higher point that actually remains at the same distance, because it can never be reached. Thank you for your humble, and most enlightening, testimony. May it be a lesson to us all.
THANK you! for this video. I really appreciate your insight. Back in 2001 I applied to Berklee, and just really didn’t feel right about pursuing it further. Visited there the following year...It just wasn’t the right fit for me, and I’m glad! The things that did unfold have led me to some pretty spectacular places musically. Thanks again for sharing!
I was there in 72-74. I left after 2 years, got to NYC, got a studio gig and they said, "Where's your wha wha pedal?" I assume Berklee is much more in touch today. I was totally prepared to be a radio guitarist in the '50's when i left. The things i learned there , on the other hand, have helped me all my life as a musician. As far as styles, each one needs dedication to sound decent. I often wonder if the time spent on the mechanics of music was spent on hearing instead of thinking, we'd all end up in a better place. (And hey, there are style snobs in every genre.)
i love your channel. it provides so much great information. This video is fantastic because it takes your content to another level!!! (in a positive way of course!!) Thank you for making all this and you freaking ROCK!!!!!
Maybe because of your willingness to face your areas of weakness, and your ruthlessness in breaking down and analyzing those areas, you have become an excellent teacher. I so enjoy the fresh insight you bring to so many musical topics I was so sure I already knew.
I brought a small practice guitar with me on vacation along with my small kids and wife. I unpacked the guitar at our destination for some relax time watching a sunset over the ocean. Dang!! I forgot there was only 3 strings on it, and no spares. 10 days on a crippled whatchamacallit. I always told my students to simplify. Time to eat my words. 25 years later... I only string that one guitar with EAG. I pick it up at least several times a month and is some of my best practice in getting to know Melody
I was there in 91/92 and had the opposite experience. I was a rocker kid with an interest in R and B and blues, but no background playing Jazz. I listened to it, but never had he chance to play it with anyone who was fluent in the style. I ended up leaving for a number of reasons, but one of them was that I couldn’t see myself making the transition to true Jazz musician. I am glad that it has changed. I still look back on that time happily, but I wonder what it would have been like if it was less Jazz focused back then.
I like and appreciate, that you sharing your experience on your way through this humiliating moments on your journey with other musicians. I think this message that you bring up in this video is the most important thing to keep in mind if you think of being a professional musician.
I really appreciate you sharing your story. When I was trying to get better I was always working on technique. But I wasn’t working on other aspects of music. One of my close friends didn’t have my technical ability. But he could play guitar, sing melody and harmony, wrote his own songs, and had played solo, in a duo, And in a full band . He learned to play and sing by learning Every Beatles song out of a songbook. this taught me that there are so many different avenues to play and perform music. That really opened my mind . My breakthrough came one night when I was trying to play a John Hiatt song called alone in the dark which is a song that’s on the movie True Lies while I was watching Jamie Lee Curtis dance in the hotel room. I couldn’t figure it out, but I had a happy accident and played a cool riff of my own . OMG! I discovered playing music is actually fun! Who would have thunk it? 😂
I think that the essential ability we all have to develop is the ability to be able to play what you hear in your head without thinking in terms of intervals or theory. It involves hearing your inner ear whilst playing, which is tough. No matter how fast your fingers are, it doesn’t matter if you cant guide them with your inner ear. The rest is knowing language, whether it’s R and B or Jazz or Pop. Slow learners are great teachers, which is why I am always great full for your contributions!
Me siento identificado Nick, con la diferencia que yo no fuí a escuelas de jazz., a muy duras penas estudié particularmente con músicos competentes en jazz.., el resto fue mi búsqueda ecléctica de información - y de cómo aprenderla - y llevarla a la práctica.. No tuve tiempo de ensayos.. todo en mi caso, el aprendizaje, fue en vivo. Abrazo Nick
I saw one of my favourite guitarist dropped out of Berklee and turned himself into one of the biggest pop star ever. His name is John Mayer. Then I met Jimi Hendrix, SRV, BB King, Albert King, Robben Ford, Tommy Emmanuel, Bucky Pizzarelli, Frank Vignola, Kenny Burrell, Grant Green. Most of them understand music in theoretical way. They are speaking in terms that I can't understand. So I tried to learn it just to find the endless colours that it contains. When I finally got a little grasp upon it, I feel good towards myself. I thought that "Hey, I can play and understand this!". Yet as I saw my friends who are musicians, playing their own tune, I realized that I am nowhere near them. My level of understanding is not matching with my ability of playing. Always thought that if I can play or at least understand the multifaceted Jazz, I can play them all. I tried and it helped. A lot. But still, I need to learn other genres too. Jazz helped me to understand better, and maybe someday, play better. I am still envious for those who are capable to enter Berklee. Either dropped out or graduated from it. To me, all of you musicians out there are still above me. That's what's keeps me going. I really want to have a conversation with all of you in a musical way. And I want you to enjoy having a conversation with me. Judge me anyway you want. I will pay a close attention to it. It will help me grow. It will help me to be in the same level as you. Whoever you are. Whatever language do you speak. Wherever you are in this world. I wish that whoever reading this comment will shoot me their Instagram profile so we can connect, share our knowledge and play whatever we want to play. I want to talk with you. Truly sorry for the rants. Sincerely yours
don't be jealous. The music reflects our journey. You have yours and no one will ever be able to express it the same way. It's not the technicality but what are you saying what does it mean to you? Esperanza Spalding former student alumni teacher and Grammy winner for a very good reason agrees on this. It is the truth.
@@Larindarr Thank you. It truly means a lot. Once, the great Tommy Emmanuel said that, musical theory will help you to express your journey in a better way. My way of thinking stems from that. However, you have your point by saying what you have said. It's a journey to oneself and depends on how the want to tell a story. Either its a simple story of having a cup of coffee in a foggy morning or other hardships in life. What kind of instruments do you play? How long have you been playing? Where are you from? I want to know you and everyone that replies to my comment. Thank you
I did a year at Berklee. I can totally relate. I do think suffering a bit of humiliation from time to time can become a positive growth experiences as a musician. Keeps you focused, open and helps temper the ego a bit. Thanks for sharing.
Without a true and strong understanding of fundamentals one's output will reflect their superficial understanding. It will be all decoration without proper architecture: a pretty room on the brink of collapse.
This is an excellent video! I hope some of these kids listen to what you have to say. It’s good advice. I’ve been playing music for 44 years. 43 of those years as a professional. Even though I never went to music school I’ve worked as an arranger and conductor for several national acts. Music is all about “what sounds good.” Yes, I can blow over Giant Steps at warp speed. But that never got me a gig. LOL. But being able to play behind a singer and make that singer sound good has kept me working.
I think what you describe is true of other fields. Part of what is taught you will never use. Part of what you thought was worth learning actually holds you back. Much of what you need to know you are not ready for at that point in your life. There is no Yoda who can supply what is missing.
Back in your day Berklee was pretty much the destination for aspring Jazz instrumentalist. More than a few major dudes passed thru there for a year or two. They began diversifying probably on the late 70s to early 80s. Like any institution theyve probably had to reinvent themselves to stay financially viable. Aint nobody interested in paying to learn to be playing Jazz. Sadly. The true American art form
I can totally relate to what you are saying, and I am afraid it's even worse in a lot of ways. I've met plenty of musicians lately who just graduated from college and all they want to do is really out, modern stuff that is odd meter..etc. They find standards to be boring, and these jazz musicians actually look down at people who play too "traditional"! But then again, these guys are still glued to the realbook whenever they play any easy standards, and they don't seem to have a solid grasp of the vocabulary and swing feel that are essential for playing that type of music. Ask them to play a ballad or blues, and they will throw all sort of crazy stuff, but they have no clue as to how to play in pocket and play melodically. I have nothing against modern jazz, and I actually love it, and IMO the best modern jazz players are firmly rooted in the traditional stuff, but then again I see people who are so caught up in following trends.. and it's like jazz elitism you described taken to the extreme. You are right, at the end of the day it's about being open about all kinds of music and appreciating for what they are, and not get caught up in thinking that there is one genre of music that is "serious" and worthy your attention. I was guilty of that as well, and I feel like I neglected big part of musicianship because of that attitude, and I wish I realized that a lot earlier.
Just discovered your channel and subscribed... I was humbled, when my new wife and I moved to Boston in '88, to learn that I was only one of like thirteen hundred guitar students and found myself playing gigs as 2nd guitarist to players for whom guitar was not even their primary instrument. Mixed experience with the school in general. My only audition was for the purpose of placement into classes. I was asked to play a couple of triad chord in three positions and two scales...no problem, right? 1. The two instructors placed me into Chord Lab II, where from day one I was increasingly behind having never played ANY of the complex extended chord voicings; That instructor, who was really quite a good player, became increasingly antagonistic until I finally took a W. 2. I was placed in sight reading lab with a handful of students who resented the instructor politely correcting them on the first day that they should've tuned before class started. I was the only one who came to class after that except one student from Israel who returned on finals day so he wouldn't fail. The soft-spoken teacher obliged. I became aware during that semester that my sight reading teacher, a fantastic teacher, had written a book on jazz improvisation and I'd had chances to hear him play, so once I realized I wouldn't have the next semester's tuition I arranged to study privately with him for the next year. 3. I was placed with a private instructor who acted as if I should know the lesson before the lesson. I can't ever recall him even being pleasant. I mentioned it once to my sight reading teacher (who I didn't know at the time was his office mate) and he agreed, stating that he really wanted to be playing in New York, not teaching. 4. While in the Berklee aura, I also had a chance to play in the back-up group for arguably the fastest emerging Contemporary Christian recording artist in the New England area. The band leader was a Berklee ear training prof and fantastic drummer. I learned so much about arranging from him. 5. The highlights at Berklee proper were meeting that sight reading teacher who changed my life opening me up to Jazz, Harmony II, Ear Training, Rhythm Section Arranging, Hearing Kenny Burrell speak and enjoying a Robben Ford clinic, but as many of my "musical gaps" (and I still have plenty) were filled being in proximity to Berklee as by paying tuition to Berklee. That place is a money-making machine! Sorry this was so long. Also, I just started a channel in December and am struggling for Subscribers. It'd mean a lot if you'd give me a subscribe. Thanks and God bless.
I’m currently a Berklee student and there is no closed mindedness, there are classes that study metal musicians, rock, jazz, fusion, everything. There are also specific teachers and ensembles for all of those genres as well. Berklee is only concerned with analyzing your potential going in and then fulfilling it by the time you graduate. When you go to Berklee you’re going to realize that you’re not as “special” as you think you are and find that there are a lot more talented people, but that shouldnt discourage you, use that to motivate you to get better. Things may have changed though, my dad also went but when went it was an all jazz school.
Current Berklee student as well. Berklee is becoming less of a jazz school, since we are implementing more “post jazz” as well as classical elements to our curriculum. I can still see people being close minded about their genre, though. I feel like a good fraction of people are doing music for their own self-satisfaction.
Without naming names, one other online teacher says that it is all to blame on academia. Straight up. Same thing they were thought before them. Get the teaching job, make tenure, ride it out for the payoff. Second generation snobs. Another, well known Jazz player, played for a couple big names, big band. Top shelf players. Solo musician. Says, what’s coming out of the schools has no idea what they are doing. They know a couple licks from some lesson books, thinks the fake books are the real deal and couldn’t arrange a backyard barbecue. Third generation snobs. Product of the above. I really want to meet this guy someday! I can comp a ii-V-I but I’ll admit I don’t know what to do with it or how choruses to play, but man I learned something myself. My question though, were any of your instructors/teachers of any renown? Did they play for Lionel Hampton? Buddy Rich? Doc Severson? Play with Kenny? Pat? Miles?
Thank you for opening up on this kind of topics there are very necessary, I think you are making good use of the platform you’ve created to reach people, you´re an inspiration in various aspects; at this point in my musical journey I´m giving lessons at a well known bachelor´s school in the north of México solving the continuous puzzle of living of music and having time to study and having access to all the possible areas that I find that music touches, for me as a composer/bassist the past 20 years have been a continuous search of different kinds of music and musical expressions in the world and it´s been a difficult and lonely journey in the sense of finding musicians that not only appreciate different languages or styles of music, but that are also willing to get into them, I often encounter with the type of elitism or pride that you mention in the video, but not only of jazz or classical, this is present in many languages and styles of music its like an ideological battle with very little humility, respect and sense of admiration and wonder for other musical expressions, like not being able to admire the properties of plants or abilities of animals you don’t know they have and simply chop them down or relate or use them in a superficial utilitarian or decorative manner, I think is sad and and it dose not make justice for what lot of what music expresses or contains within, and it dose deviates a great deal of it´s function as a intelligent sensible and spiritual human communication device
I have been teaching "jazz history" (a tag I hate) for 45 years. I have engaged a lifelong battle against the type of "jazz teaching" you refer to. I totally understand your problem. You have my deepest solidarity. You are one of many victims of a way of teaching jazz that passes on a distorted wisdom, based on a distorted description of the past. Nothing good can come out of such nonsense. Please feel free to contact me on FB or in any other way, if you feel so inclined.
Adding my two cents worth to the excellent comments, as a professional musician for many years, I've ALWAYS seen my goal and responsibility as one of making music out of anything I'm handed regardless of genre. If i can't do that, I'm not doing what I set out to do as an inspired musician.
I had the same kind of thing happen to me at UNT. There was no way in hell I could've afforded Berklee, even back then. (late 80's) Luckilyl for me, UNT was in my back yard. I went to UNT as a grad student only to find undergrads that could play circles around me. My big "learning opportunity" was around sight reading. Strange that a place that emphasizes the need for sight reading didn't really have a method for teaching it... A quote from an instructor that was there at our "Welcome" meeting: "If you can't sight read, you are musically illiterate." I could sight read, just not well. In any case, I tried and tried and did get better, but not remarkably so until many years later when a friend said one thing and a great deal rapidly fell into place. I still work on sight reading to this day. Music schools are great for finding out what we need to work on. That's what they're supposed to do. And of course, once you graduate and look back on it, you find it was really only the beginning of the story and not the end. 8-)
If every video had at least 10 or 20 comments like the ones below, the internet coud be a much better place. Im literally touched about the quality and quantity of this comments, this is the kind of actitudes we deserve, so keep those videos flowing. Greetings from Montevideo, Uruguay.
Sounds like we are the same age, i almost went to berklee after attending one of their summer camps in california, fortunately a friend who was a great bone player and had a free ride went ahead and returned a couple years later filled us in. Its great for some but ultimately is still a mill. I went through the jazz snob phase, learned giant steps.. Etc. All i can say is when one grows up they see that jazz snob = asswipe and what you thought was important..... Isnt.
Thanks for the confessions! I lived in the Boston area for several decades, and although I was a software engineer by day, I became friends with and took lessons from several Berklee professors, students and dropouts, so I was not as immersed in that culture as you were, but not too far removed. Ironically I retired to a warm place far from Boston and took several Berklee Online courses, most of which were good although I already knew much of the material. I remember one Berklee prof that I took lessons from in the late 90's for a couple years. At that point he loved me because I actually practiced (many of his foreign students apparently did not) and I recall an intense discussion where he drew me in with all kinds of theory until he started discussing the "lydian crustacean mode" at which point he told me to lighten up more and enjoy it! One thing with which I totally agree is that I regret feeling I had to have music in front of me all of the time. Of course, back then, the joke was "how do you shut up a guitar player? Put music in front of him/her". I think what I learned is that you can get a lop of help and clues, but ultimately, you are your own teacher.
Thought the same when I was young. But now I like to listen to selected music over an over again until I can fart the melodies and invoke the chords with my toes while doing push ups, drinking coffee and brushing my teeth. I think you'll learn more about the micro nuances if you stick on selected records. Listening to other music is educational no doubt, though. But the most beauty is in the details.
It depends on your musical learning path. I am 63 years old and I started playing guitar as a teenager by ear. I started with the Beatles and Rolling Stone and then moved on to progressive rock (Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Genesis, Yes). I started to seriously study the harmony of Bossa Nova and Samba at 16 years old. then I went to Miles Davis' Bitches Brew and I studied Chich Corea and the jazz greats who had gone into the electric world. Afterwards I dedicated myself to Jazz standards and bebop phrasing but my ear was always before the score. If you can sing it you can play it. I rediscovered classical music by studying Charlie Parker's solos . Even today I study and move from one ganere to another. My reading ability at first sight is not good but the ear always anticipates. I love music transversely and I think learning is a subjective experience and that it is not objectivable.
Thanks for the super video (among many) and the comments from Tom Scott. There's a great book on the problems of actually improvising and the pitfalls of using muscle memory only called, "Lee Konitz: Conversations on the Art of Improvisation." He supports Tom's comments and cites Warn Marsh and Wayne Shorter as two that approach what they play(ed) from ear. The late great Larry Sleazak would teach to pick a standard you think you already know, and play the melody with the singer as close to EXACTLY what they're doing in real time, without any pre-planning. I would pick something like The Days of Wine and Roses or There is no Greater Love and found people like Holiday, Ella, Bennett, Wilson, Sinatra, Washington, etc. singing it. What an eye-opening and useful instructional method this turned out to be. And turned out to be a lot harder than I thought. It showed the subtleties that the ear can take for granted with familiarity. Not to mention the depth that's left out when muscle memory trumps what you hear. If you want to give a listen to Larry, here's a couple of links: Just Squeeze Me ruclips.net/video/AAIgRavOkvw/видео.html The Theme ruclips.net/video/3_qBI5m4_wo/видео.html
There's a similar situation in the guitar world between the elitist and actual players, especially in the world of classical guitar. A guitar education reformation is very much needed. Guitar teachers who swear by sight-reading project an attitude that frequently inhibits the well-rounded development and growth of guitarists by discouraging them from using tabulature. Sight-reading with guitar presents many peculiar problems that is not common with other instruments. People have preconceived notions regarding tabs, mainly because of all the bad internet tabs out there, which are just as trashy as bad sheet music. In the right hands tabs provide the perfect learning tool from beginners to professionals. People need to be set free to explore music without being forced out of their own ideas of how learning takes place in the best possible way. Guitar magazines have been publishing quality tabs for over 50 years now, but the classical world doesn't want to get in on it. Tabs have been with us for at least 700 years. Somewhere in the last century, when guitar was being brought to the concert stage, it took on the elitist culture and has been plagued ever since with players having to put on a frickin' bow tie while playing. Thankfully, there have been artists like Maria Joao Pires, who are consciously aware of these unhealthy attitudes being imposed. Tabs tend to trigger elitists like nothing else. Use tabs and they won't consider you seriously, no matter how good you are. They'd banish you from the whole community if possible. ”There’s no doubt that we’re living in such a highly mechanized, computerized society, and I think it’s to be expected that all that kind of reflects itself in the way people play and in the way that people think about these works of art. You have international piano competitions. Then you have the urtext crowd. They seem to think of music as being ruled by a very rigid set of absolutes. I have said this a million times, in all my career and all my years, I have found one musical absolute that I accept. I haven’t found the second one, and I defy anyone to tell me that there is a second one. I’ve come to that conclusion. And that absolute is ’there are no absolutes in music’. Everything in music is relative - everything. Including what a composer wrote.” -Jorge Bolet ruclips.net/video/vEGgyeOjXX4/видео.html Social experiment on the war between tabs and standard music notation for guitar: instagram.com/gottabsforthat/
Just learn to read. I did after learning tab. I found that I needed to in order to play with brass and reed players who read standard notation. It was a liberation and in due course I was able to write brass parts for the music I wanted them to play. Tab is ok but if you want to be inclusive, notation is better.
@@irishmuso7129 I do sight-read music and play other instruments. The piano is perfect for standard notation, as it is perfectly laid out visually. Guitar and standard notation don't go well together at all, especially during the first 10 years of learning. The best way to teach the fretboard has always been with visual learning tools, such as patterns, shapes, block diagrams (see Ted Greene), graphs, and so forth. Tabs should always be there as a tool to use while learning to sight-read. There's no point to argue whether which is more important for you, food or water. As teachers we need to use all the tools necessary for the learning process to be made enjoyable and interesting. It's with subtle either-or attitudes that really has been destructive. The new generation is smart, but they also need things to be fast. Tabs can give a great headstart for the player to want to go on, like learning to walk before learning to run. What I'm saying is that we need to get the mental blocks out of the way. Most guitar players hate sight-reading, because it just is so difficult. For them I'd recommend learning music theory and sight-reading by playing the piano. Eventually you can combine them and it'll feel much less of an effort. It's also interesting to note that the majority of guitar players in today's world don't sight read. There's a reason for that, and it's quite interesting when you begin to look into it. For jazz, sight-reading definitely is a given. There's a reason why jazz is so inclusive. There's a reason for everything. Most guitar players would love to know jazz, but no matter how good they are, they feel learning to sight-read just isn't for everyone. Yet with all other instruments it's a given. I've had lots of students and most of them just want to play and there's plenty of material for them to do that. You can't force them to sight-read, and sheet music is usually a turn-off. That's why good, quality tabbing is critical, because that way you're constantly building up neurons, so when the time is right, sight reading becomes natural. But even after that, tabs are and have always been used by professionals. They're great for composing and arranging, finding possibilities. You work with them at the drawing board, and when things are right from all angles, playability, efficiency, tone and resonance, then the sheet music will be high quality. Sheet music is usually crap, especially with classical guitar music, always seems that so many better possibilities are overlooked, the fingerings are always off, and the reason is because of the endless variations of fingerings, string cross talk, etc. etc.
Imma keep it a buck, the fact the this video is deadass 12 of ur voice over the same screen just makes people want to click on something else. Like you’re probably giving valuable insight but I jus can bring myself to finish this shit🤣
I find it interesting hearing your struggles post berklee, because I've definitely been asked by private instructors to practice improvising over a single chord. Ear training has also been incredibly valuable in strengthening my ear, for doing things like following a melody by ear. I imagine the curriculum is different now than it was, but the issues you mentioned, I've actually seen an active attempt to mitigate in my time at Berklee
I was at Berklee from 86-88. It was tough learning that I was someone with low musical aptitude. I also had very little musical training. I am the slowest learning musician that I know. So I had to work much harder for much less knowledge and I had to let go of certain dreams (I’m still not a world class jazz musician) BUT ...... these are things we need to learn. I had to find my own way, and I did. After Berklee I gave up music for a year or so...... but since then I came to the realization that I still wanted to learn and play, and that set me on a goal of practicing every day for at least two hours. Decades later I still do. The key for me was not letting my learning disabilities get me down (I have short term memory disorder so learning even simple tunes takes years)
I was laughed at on gigs many times by other musicians for not knowing tunes, but I made a promise to myself to never apologize for not knowing something as long as I was trying hard every day.
Thank you for sharing the story of your journey/struggle/adventure and much respect for carrying on despite the difficulties you faced. This is an example, to me, of the positive side of internet commentary: we gather around the virtual campfire and share our stories and inspire and encourage each other in the process...
You are a great man, congratulations.
Keep it up and continue to be an inspiration.
Hats off to you, Sir. Such an inspiring story, and it's amazing that you have found the way. Love it!
Wow Brett that is a very humble revelation. You did’nt give up, that’s most important and having fun playing music. Grts from Europe
No music school gets you ready for real world, stage is the best teacher
iv'e heard the same from lawyers about law school. that's why the call it practicing law i suppose.
I think I'd agree on that one. "The whole world is a theatre, and we are but actors".
As a current Berklee student I am happy to say that this is not how the school is anymore. Berklee is very open to all styles of music now even pop music. There are definitely still students who think in the way you speak of but most are doing whatever suits them best personally. The teachers encourage us to explore our own musical growth in ways that suit us the best and there’s room to pursue things the things we want
I'd have to agree. I'm part of berklee online and there are a huge array of musical styles to learn including pop.
Yaakov Hassoun I was thinking of taking a few online courses. Do you think you get a truly all encompassing experience online? Is it worth the money?
@@melodic21 from my experience it's been great. I've learned so much from the professors and fellow students. It also fit my schedule a lot better allowing me to work and not move to Boston. I've loved every professor I've had and every course I've taken. Compared to my last college which was roughly half the price per course I only enjoyed half the courses and the other half I despised.
You'll more likely develop a lot of skills and still have some rough patches, since on campus you will practice in ensembles a lot (meaning you get to play with other musicians), and that prepares you for a career in performance pretty well. but online you don't really develop those skills as much. Instead you have to record all your assignments so you actually learn a lot from listening to yourself play. they provide backing tracks for everything so it's kinda a simulation of playing with others, so it's really a different skill set that gets developed. on the positive you can't rewind a live ensemble till you get it right. I believe also that the only private lessons you can get is for guitar majors at the moment so that's one area most music student benefit the most by taking private lessons from their professors. I decided to hire one of my previous professors for private lessons after my course finished to get that same experience.
All the courses provide really high quality learning materials, listening examples to develop your ear etc. I've gotten some really helpful feedback from my professors which have made me a much better musician and overall I'm really happy with the experience. I'd say it's a good value for what they're providing. they also have discounts every semester on selected courses up to 300$ off and if you pay for a certificate program all at once you can get an additional 10% off.
Heck ... Berklee even gives a bachillor in music for video games 🖤
Yes bois I agree
I've been playing for just over 40 years. This is the best advice you can give beginner and intermediate players. Well stated.
Excellent advice. I've graduated from Berklee in 99. Piano. During my second year I've discovered the beauty of classical music. On my third year I found out, hanging out with friends at Boston Conservatory, that classical was another heavy "indoctrination camp". By the end of the third year I was a lonely guy, loving music so much and hating the idea of becoming a "professional musician". Had to teach for a few years to make a living, played awful gigs. That was 16 years ago. I'm back at my "youth", a happy amateur, playing ballads, improvising solo piano, having a friend over to simply play for the fun and love of it. There's more than enough music and noise out there for people to indulge on. Sensory overload in the music and in the arts. An old wise men once said that a variety of girls, of food of music, is all the same. An orgy...
Yes classical music can be a big indoctrination camp. I did expierence this after studying classical guitar on a university in germany. It is now 40 years ago but I was so much in that camp that I thought strumming only chords is nothing. 🤣
@@samyard Oh, yes, strumming is sinful. I've studied some classical at Berklee. I would show up and play Ravel to my teacher, half way I would start improvising, lol. He didn't like that..😂😂😂😂
at University it seems that their main goal is to make you hate yourself for playing
@@Beyondabsence Ravel like all the other great composers such as Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin etc were excellent improvisors. And the music we have today of all these composers on a piece of paper is like a screenshot of how it could possibly sound
It's the options paralysis, in part. I think we have so much knowledge & resources available to us, that we often make it a substitute for the sense of joy of playing & exploring by doing so. I've fallen into that trap myself, but now I remain focused on exploring music by playing, not the other way around. Naturally, it's taken years to realize that :) Thanks for sharing your experience!
One's ego is the greatest obstacle in life and humility is the most important learning experience.
I think it's a mix of humility (understanding we need to grow) and self-esteem (believing we can grow). Most of the times people have one but lack the other.
My Berklee grad confession: the $200,000 tuition is basically an access ticket to an invitation-only social networking group of industry leading figures and people who pretend to be just that. If you're in it for the music, there's nothing you can't learn online or in any community/state school. It was a great experience but not a $200,000 one.
hi bro..need your address please
@@anatoledjoko6060 wtf??
Preach!
@@tylerthompson1842 I joined a few online courses...they are great....
This accurate class of 19' even with a business degree
Jazz music education is a business for the establishments selling the courses. Music is about personal development, sharing experiences and communication. As a friend of mine, a top class soprano player, says - you need enough technique to say what you want to say. The pursuit of technique in and of itself is meaningless and potentially counter-productive. Now in my seventies, I have great fun busking with a friend of mine (Steve on tenor, me on soprano) playing everything from standards, through pop, gotan, blues, funk. I now play almost exclusively by ear. Steve starts a track and I just start playing. NO, I don’t have perfect pitch but somehow the fingers find the notes and the groove. Thanks NIck for sharing this and for your inspirational materials.
There are still good aspects of modern jazz ed., including these RUclips channels (this channel, Mr Sunny Bass, Backingtracks Jazz, Jens Larsen, Aimee Nolte, etc.) and publishers like Sher Music.
Thank you for writing this! "you need enough technique to say what you want to say"... I find myself getting tired with repeating technical jazz drills over and I er and still not being able to play what I want and it's literally because my practice has been suited to sound like a good jazz musician, not one who can play anything by ear... While theory is good, it can get really stifling at some point.. Thank you for this
Much respect for this gentleman as he proved that being a high class professional is more of a state of mind than having a set of particular skills. Every musician should hear this
This just goes to show that when you’re a growing musician you should try to say yes to every gig no matter the style
Excellent points... these are exactly the problems many "jazz" musicians have faced when they decided to "go mainstream".... Herbie Hancock faced much derision when he shifted to the "Head Hunters" Band.... and each step of growth since then.... there is an elitism that comes somehow inbred into many musicians that keeps them from just going back to the Blues or R&B Roots.... and having fun... their loss I imagine.
Perverted Alchemist and her jazz roots gave us some beautiful melodies and harmonic touches...and that delicious Rhodes solo in “Remind Me”
Head Hunters is my all-time favorite album...It’s the bedrock of all that I do! That record opened up such amazing new places for me creatively. You’re right - it’s their loss, those who cannot dare to open their minds.
Perverted Alchemist Patrice is my favorite! I actually knew of her as an R&B singer and not a pianist/keys player.
The truth is, most horn players don't play what they hear. They play from muscle memory. That makes it impossible to improvise! The problem is, horns are difficult instrument to truly improvise on, so what you have to do, is play what you scat! Let's say you're practicing to a backing track, record it. Then take that same backing track and Scat to it and record it. I bet 99.9% of Anyone who reads this message and tries it will realize they are not playing what they hear once they try to play along to their scat. It took me 10 years to figure this out. A good practice to do is 2 scat while you're practicing your horn over a backing track, skat a phrase, then play it on your horn. And make sure it's identical! Once you get this concept into your head you will be able to improvise much better without having to scat when you practice. But synchronizing what you hear with your fingers over your horn is extremely difficult. This is why Charlie Parker practiced 15 hours a day for 4 years. and I'm sure he was working on tunes that he wanted to play, and I'm sure he played those Tunes in a schedule for that entire time. the best chance at being able to play what you hear at will over any changes is to learn to play what you hear over many different chord progressions. and many different tempos. and if you ever feel like you're not cutting it with your practicing, start scatting! It will show you that you're mind to Fingers is the problem, and not your musical conception.
And not just horn players. As a guitarist what I sing is Never what I might have played.
I used to teach students how to play by ear. If you want to play in more than one key don't waste your time with a valved instrument. (Unless if you have perfect pitch).
I think it's a bit of both...all of the home practice gives you a basket of licks and ideas to pull from...what you pull from at any given night or tune is the improvising part...picking and choosing ideas at will and allowing the music to play you and not the other way around. This is a skill better developed outside of jazz...in key-centric, modal music like blues, funk soul and jam band....breaking away from the chord centric arpeggio based music that is jazz....
I read about this in a Jamey Aebersold book, he referred to it as “finding the real you”. Great exercise.
@canniblecannibal carnival I would like to clarify that, since I guess I did not do that well enough. Playing what you scat on your horn allows you to be able to access the fluidity of your conscious mind! I don't have to play what I scat anymore, because my fingers and my conscious are almost in perfect alignment now, and I never know what I'm going to play when I improvise! And for the first time in years, I'm actually almost completely happy with the way I play! And yes, if I know a Melody but have never played it before, or if I hear anything at all, I can pretty much play it right the first time around, like you're supposed to be able to do it!
And no, if you improvise right the first idea that comes to your mind will be the best! You don't want to script out a solo, unless you're playing classical music! And even then, Mozart, Beethoven, and Bach we're all improvising musicians , there were just no recording equipment in those days. If there was I'm sure classical music would be entirely different today than it is.
Under different circumstances, the same is true for studying classical music in music school. Regardless of our main style/discipline, we should be well-versed in other styles. Music is a lifetime study. Thanks for your honesty in this video!
You're more than right. As once Billie Holiday said: "there is no good or bad music, there are only good or bad musicians". So, the purists at Berkley should start to enjoy all kind of good music in the world, unless they want to become mummies.
Very honest and insightful video! Thank you for sharing. I was a Berklee student from 1983-1985 (2 year program at the time) and previously studied with a very accomplished jazz and fusion guitarist who invited the likes of Mike Stern to appear on his albums. My sole purpose at Berklee was to become a great jazz guitarist - another Joe Pass. What saved me from becoming a jazz snob was the fact that I needed to make money to stay alive, like most of us, and played in several pop bands as well as general business wedding bands. I was fortunate enough to play with people who explored all genres of music, but more importantly, encouraged band members to explore 'jazz' like techniques and chord structures - up to a degree of course. But I agree that most of the amazing accomplished jazz students at Berklee tended to be jazz purists/snobs and looked down on musicians like myself who 'wasted' their time playing over 1-4 simple chords. Nevertheless, Berklee represents the best time of my life. It was tough to get through all those courses (remember Advanced Ear Training? Goodness!), but it helped set a high standard for learning and performance that still lives in me today. Unfortunately, I was one of those 90% who didn't make it in the music industry, but a day doesn't go by that I do not lock myself in my basement studio after work, write music and play one of my guitars.
Reminded me of Kenny Werner's book Effortless Mastery, which also contains stories like that. This is the knowledge that puts us back on track on why are we even making music after all. Thank you. Takes courage to share all of that with us!
That was fabulous! Thanks for your honest take on your "after Berkley* experiences. Academic study is way different than gigging. Just getting out of that pressure cooker environment forces you to stop playing for grades and actually play music. Good work mate.
This honesty knocks me out. Amen brother. every blessing
In 1984 I was also able to meet with a counselor at Berklee College of Music.. he said I was a slow learner. I just turned 54 and I teach private drum set/theory/audio editing, and will always be a student of life. Thanks for the vid and I totally dug your story!
I don't recall ever hearing an audience member complaining that the musicians aren't playing enough 8th notes, or not enough notes period; they either like it or they don't.
And if there's a vocalist, I think a lot of folks really want to hear the vocals and don't care so much about the other instruments(!).
We should be very careful about what we want to learn...if we are blind then more chances we will follow somebody's advice without even knowing where we are travelling.
" Humiliating roast-up " for the win; sometimes a jarring, uncomfortable experience can open us up to greater possibilities...😎 Thanks for sharing your experiences and insights! Definitely sharing this!👍🏽❤
Thank you! Thats a very good thing you did, gonna save some music souls, hope some classical music students hear this too, I've been a victim of that too and just starting my path out of that old mentality, thx again!
i never had the privilege of academical music education but i too started off trying to play jazz as i naively thought "well it's the most complex so i'll automatically cover everything else". but once i started to learn parker licks (nothing wrong with that per say ofc) i started what i call "reciting instead of playing".
the reason why i love this channel is because it does something more valuable. trying to grasp music in terms of colors, patterns and concepts. basically giving you the toys and then you're sent off to play. which what imrpovisational music should be about imho. playing around with ideas instead of overpreparing a bunch of specific lines to perfection ending up creating a golden cage for yourself.
So true.
First story reminds me of a time when I had a weekly jazz gig for three years. It wasn’t until I picked up a top40 gig and returned to the jazz gig that suddenly had a deeper rhythmic relationship and overall joy of playing. It’s like Jaco saying “yeah but can you play Hendrix?”
A lot of (most?) jazz standards started as "pop" tunes of the day. It's hard to imagine jazz being disconnected from current or past popular music.
Thank you for your story Nick. I think a reminder to let music be music is always needed. Gave me a lot to think about, thank you!
I did 2 years on Berklee. Before, i had study on a jazz school in my own country. There they were more close minded than berklee. What's good about berklee is the sistem and the infrastructure. Then, different teachers will have different opinions like in all places. It all comes to what u take of what they offer and having a clear idea of what u want to become as a musician.
Gary Husband is an underrated, underappreciated beast on drums never mind the fact that he's just as mean on piano.
Gary Husband es un baterista al que grandes y famosos bateristas se han cansado de robarle ideas, usos y técnicas de su ejecución y nadie dijo nada. Es uno de los mejores músicos que he escuchado!!! Acaso no lo tendrías en tu banda si pudieras? Allan Holdsworth lo eligio.... Y mira de quien estamos hablando!!!! 👍😃🍀
I would agree about his drumming, if I hadn’t heard sharing the stage with Ranjit Barot...now HE is a Drummer...
One of my all time favorite musicians!
I’ve definitely experienced all of these things in my musical life.
“Not enough 8th notes”
When I was strictly focusing on bebop I remember that sort of tunnel visioned feeling of listening to nothing else. But there is so much more out there, and being a musical snob, of any genre, only limits ones horizons.
For many years I wished I had studied at Berklee... Now, it feels like my experience (with many of those painful/hazardous moments) led me to find my very personal/original sound particularly on the fretless bass.
I went the other way around from you, playing simples things first in gigs and teaching myself theory along the way, feeling many times ignorant... Just the other way from you with one chord improvisation. Knowing too much or too little... Not sure what's less embarrassing!
Now I don't care, I enjoy learning and practising every day. Your videos are among the most inspiring on RUclips. Thanks for that.
I’m one of the non geniuses that has had to explore the same musical concepts from many different angles and sources. I’ve learned quite a bit but there are a thousand lifetimes of more music to learn. Very thankful for this video channel, it is one of the most motivating and inspirational places I have been able to receive information and knowledge.
Melody always wins over cute or speed. No one in wants to hear a bubble bee sound on any instrument .
melody and groove
You mean to say "cuteness". People take way too damn many liberties with language these days.
@@dethronedb okay, I"ll take your correction. But you got the gist Ksaxman.com
Unless you're into contemporary music
@@HobelRosier true many tastes.
One of the best pieces of advice I've heard, which applies to many areas of life... There's no shame in not knowing something. However, there is shame in not filling in those knowledge gaps once they've been revealed. Or - Being weak is nothing to be ashamed of, but staying weak is. Great video!
Hi, I am an italian pianist jazz student (I am 21 years old) and I study in Conservatory of Naples (Italy). Some years ago I did the 2weeks with Berkley teacher in Umbria. I was so fascinated by this world and my dream is to study in Berkley in Boston someday and I know it is very difficult ‘cause u must be a very great musician to be part of this college and must have lot of money to spend to.
Some year ago I had the pleasure to talk with Emanuel Harrold (gregory porter drummer) and I asked him: “what do u think about Berklee? To be a good musician must We study there?”
The answer was: “u dont need Berklee, but Berklee needs you”.
This was impressive to me...
What are you impressions about?
Ue Giggi! Guarda chi si incontra in giro per yt, haha
Giuseppe Savarese ue bello, eh hai visto??😂 ha detto delle cose interessanti nel video
@@luigilombardi3441 eh sì, studiando per tanto tempo un genere in particolare c'è il rischio che ci si soffermi in maniera quasi ossessiva, tralasciando o dando minore importanza (a volte neanche volontariamente) ad altri contesti. Capita pure all'interno del jazz stesso, relativamente alle tante varianti che ci stanno, figuriamoci col resto della musica. Figo sto canale comunque eh? Lo seguo volentieri, oltre a diversi altri; ormai ci trovi tonnellate di roba trattata anche con certo dettaglio
Giuseppe Savarese yes, sono d’accordo! Il canale ti da tantissimi spunti per studiare, si vede che è uno che ne sa! Davvero interessante
Thanks for sharing this Nick. It's amazing how age can change your perspective. I was too narrow minded also in my youth to appreciate all the talented people outside my genre of choice.
Such an articulate, meaningful "confession". Thanks for this.
Thanks for sharing! It's very much appreciated. Before I entered the "classical" university-conservatory system, I had learned to play a lot of blues and rock, inspired by the greats such as Hendrix and Clapton. But once I got to university and began studying "serious" music, I came to believe that I needed even to stop listening to those styles of music that I'd grown up with and come to love which weren't in the classical vein. It was only many years later that I came to see that exposure to many different kinds of music only serves to make us better, more well-rounded, and arguably more useful musicians. Fortunately, at least I now get to play pretty much every kind of music I love, and it's reminded why the verb used to denote the making of music is "play"-something we should all be reminded of from time to time. :-)
Closed mindedness is definitely an issue in Jazz. But Berklee is not just a jazz school anymore. Electronic production, engineering, Arabic music ensembles, Indian Music ensemble, etc. Yet whenever Berklee comes up in discussion, even in 2020, Berklee is discussed about what it offered in the 70’s haha. Very good points about the Jazz scene though.
This resonates on so many levels, a genuine outpouring. An enlightening, honest insight into the music world. Your story highlights so many of the issues with music education. Thanks to your channel and others like you, we are approaching a true musical democracy. We cannot afford to live in musical silos, which is hard form some institutions to adapt too! I'm a fully paid up student at the university of RUclips. Thank you, Nick!!
Just like many professions, people on the “in” want to control entry and ego of people not yet “in”. I remember a NY musician telling me that if you bring a fake book or an iPad to a jam or you’ll be laughed off stage, no matter what came out of your horn.
True Thing...
Happens everywhere..
They are like bodybuilders on steroids laughing at an elite sportsman.
Sad, but true. They are A holes.
I'm curious about words but I'm far from music&business world and don't quite understand: can you please explain what is wrong in bringing "a fake book or an iPad to a jam"?
Thankfully, there are still persons like you out there! You are open-minded, honest, courageous and an altruistic intellectual musician!
I admire you and your work; your RUclips channel, your website and your instructional materials; I also like your sound on sax.
You gained my sincere respect! Please, never give up!
thank you for your valuable advice since i have just begun my music path.
Hi! I can really understand what you're saying here. When I was a teenager I dreamed about attending Berklee or Git, but I live in Sicily and it was totally impossible. I studied Jazz guitar at Palermo conservatory and modern guitar in Percentomusica private academy in Rome. When I started studying in Palermo (with has a pretty good jazz scene), I came from a background of playing fusion, progressive and just one year playing classic jazz. I was blasted by the teacher for this. They said to me that electric instruments was the death of jazz. Now I laugh about all of this, but at the time I was really confused. This made me thinking about what I really cared about the study I was getting in. And I kwew that I wanted to know and understand jazz as a language, not as the end of my musical journey. I also met, lot of maestros with did study at Berkley, and although I respected them a lot for their preparation, I couldn't not think that their knowledge was somehow sterile and "globalized" to a very precise way of playing stuff. And I actually think that this globalized way of thinking is pretty good to prepare other students, but must be contextualized if you won't be a "classic jazz player" in your future but something more. And the problem is, that there aren't school that teach that "something more" it has to come to you and to your capacity to put in music where your minds really want to go. Thanks for those thoughts, they really may help young musician get better direction fort their studies.
Hey Nick.... Really enjoyed listening to your confessions. I can relate my musical friend. You know, I am 67 and have been playing off and on for almost 60 years. My best learning experiences were always a result of failure on my part. Two come to mind. I was touring with Johnny Lytle, a great jazz vibe player. During a rehearsal he expressed to me strongly in front of everyone, that I couldn't solo. You know, he was right. I never forgot that and I strive to always play my best when I do solo. The other time I remember, I was playing a gig with Hammond B3 organist Jimmie Foster. A fantastic player. I took the first solo which was a groove in concert G. After 16 bars he modulated up to G#. I wasn't very familiar with G#, so the great solo I had played turned very ugly. I was so embarrassed in front of a full house. Guess what? The next day I started working on all the keys I was not familiar with. Really expanded my playing. I did not go to college for music, however beginning in the 5th grade, I learned to play the saxophone in the school band and orchestra. After I graduated, I played professionally with Rock and Funk bands. I learned how to improvise using mainly blues and pentatonic scales. Even though at 19 Coltrane and Miles changed my life, I could not play bebop. To me the most important aspect of playing music is melody, mood and emotion. Even to this day, I do not consider myself a Jazz player, but a music creator. I just released my 1st Smooth Jazz LP. Creating it was one of the best musical experiences of my life. Words cannot express the deep emotional feelings I experienced while creating my own original music. Even though I do practice at least 2 hours a day, I know I will never be a Coltrane, but I am me and am satisfied with that.... Thank you Nick for sharing your experiences.
“Didn’t play enough eighth notes”
My god, if I told that to my peers, I would be shunned to eternity 😂
Also funniest line I heard all day 🤣
I have to admit that as a non-jazz musician and without context I just can't wrap my head around that one.
Maybe 8ths in the song were decently fast? Or did they just want more "jazzy" runs in there, or what? Do you know? I'm honestly curious :DD I have no idea
Bebop Jazz is rooted in 8th note lines. The head cutters know this. :)
Thank you. Important and refreshing to hear honest talk. Remarkably, I was at Berklee same time as you, and and your narrative brings it back - some nostalgic and some painful. And I too have experienced a shameful post Berklee gig for which I still have PTSD. Yes there are advantages to getting old.
Thank you for your honesty Nick. Boy did that bring up some memories! But: it's those experiences that have made the musician, mentor and all round inspiring man you are today. Cheers!
Typically the more elitist the musicians in the genre, the fewer people want to hear that genre (which causes insecurity in the musicians, causing elitism - because how can anyone not see the beauty in theoretical and technical superiorty over other genres that may or may not be to someones' taste?)
I'm going through a similar experience right now. How is it that after playing several years that I could not by ear play a common march like Battle Hymn of the Republic. I can play hendrix cream etc but could not fart out the correct phrasing of a simple march. So I got the music. The simplicity! we have all heard it. but that is the point! My blues purist arrogance. Music is Music. Music goes beyond the instrument and past the voice.
Thank you for sharing your perspective on these matters
Gracias Nico por tus palabras! Thanks Nick to share with us your experiences
This is a great video, sent to 3 horn players, thanks for this great Lesson, listener in St. Lucia Caribbean.
Modesty is the hallmark of the great. The longer the Quest, and the more labour of love put into the daily practice, the humbler you get because the mountain gets higher every day. The summit is just a higher point that actually remains at the same distance, because it can never be reached.
Thank you for your humble, and most enlightening, testimony. May it be a lesson to us all.
THANK you! for this video. I really appreciate your insight. Back in 2001 I applied to Berklee, and just really didn’t feel right about pursuing it further. Visited there the following year...It just wasn’t the right fit for me, and I’m glad! The things that did unfold have led me to some pretty spectacular places musically. Thanks again for sharing!
I was there in 72-74. I left after 2 years, got to NYC, got a studio gig and they said, "Where's your wha wha pedal?" I assume Berklee is much more in touch today. I was totally prepared to be a radio guitarist in the '50's when i left. The things i learned there , on the other hand, have helped me all my life as a musician. As far as styles, each one needs dedication to sound decent. I often wonder if the time spent on the mechanics of music was spent on hearing instead of thinking, we'd all end up in a better place. (And hey, there are style snobs in every genre.)
Yes!!!!! Thank you for being honest!!!!!!! My Goodness I am so grateful you turned yourself around! Enjoy the real experience.
Thank you for sharing this Nick, we all need some one to shine the light of knowledge on all of us to learn all types of music thank you🎶🎶✌🏽😎
i love your channel. it provides so much great information. This video is fantastic because it takes your content to another level!!! (in a positive way of course!!) Thank you for making all this and you freaking ROCK!!!!!
Thanks very much. Love the conclusion! Superb. It’s healthy to love the journey of learning.
Maybe because of your willingness to face your areas of weakness, and your ruthlessness in breaking down and analyzing those areas, you have become an excellent teacher. I so enjoy the fresh insight you bring to so many musical topics I was so sure I already knew.
I brought a small practice guitar with me on vacation along with my small kids and wife. I unpacked the guitar at our destination for some relax time watching a sunset over the ocean. Dang!! I forgot there was only 3 strings on it, and no spares. 10 days on a crippled whatchamacallit. I always told my students to simplify. Time to eat my words. 25 years later... I only string that one guitar with EAG. I pick it up at least several times a month and is some of my best practice in getting to know Melody
I was there in 91/92 and had the opposite experience. I was a rocker kid with an interest in R and B and blues, but no background playing Jazz. I listened to it, but never had he chance to play it with anyone who was fluent in the style. I ended up leaving for a number of reasons, but one of them was that I couldn’t see myself making the transition to true Jazz musician. I am glad that it has changed. I still look back on that time happily, but I wonder what it would have been like if it was less Jazz focused back then.
Thank you for sharing this, those are the kind of words that help people to really grow in life. This is gold!
I like and appreciate, that you sharing your experience on your way through this humiliating moments on your journey with other musicians.
I think this message that you bring up in this video is the most important thing to keep in mind if you think of being a professional musician.
I really appreciate you sharing your story.
When I was trying to get better I was always working on technique. But I wasn’t working on other aspects of music. One of my close friends didn’t have my technical ability. But he could play guitar, sing melody and harmony, wrote his own songs, and had played solo, in a duo, And in a full band . He learned to play and sing by learning Every Beatles song out of a songbook. this taught me that there are so many different avenues to play and perform music. That really opened my mind .
My breakthrough came one night when I was trying to play a John Hiatt song called alone in the dark which is a song that’s on the movie True Lies while I was watching Jamie Lee Curtis dance in the hotel room. I couldn’t figure it out, but I had a happy accident and played a cool riff of my own . OMG! I discovered playing music is actually fun! Who would have thunk it? 😂
I think that the essential ability we all have to develop is the ability to be able to play what you hear in your head without thinking in terms of intervals or theory. It involves hearing your inner ear whilst playing, which is tough. No matter how fast your fingers are, it doesn’t matter if you cant guide them with your inner ear. The rest is knowing language, whether it’s R and B or Jazz or Pop. Slow learners are great teachers, which is why I am always great full for your contributions!
Beware the Berklee Funk.
Super good advice throughout the video for all musicians.
Thank you.
Me siento identificado Nick, con la diferencia que yo no fuí a escuelas de jazz., a muy duras penas estudié particularmente con músicos competentes en jazz.., el resto fue mi búsqueda ecléctica de información - y de cómo aprenderla - y llevarla a la práctica.. No tuve tiempo de ensayos.. todo en mi caso, el aprendizaje, fue en vivo. Abrazo Nick
Thank you very much for your audio ( video ) it is possible to have the subtitles? I’m from Spain and I don’t understand everything.... thank you !!!
I saw one of my favourite guitarist dropped out of Berklee and turned himself into one of the biggest pop star ever. His name is John Mayer. Then I met Jimi Hendrix, SRV, BB King, Albert King, Robben Ford, Tommy Emmanuel, Bucky Pizzarelli, Frank Vignola, Kenny Burrell, Grant Green. Most of them understand music in theoretical way. They are speaking in terms that I can't understand. So I tried to learn it just to find the endless colours that it contains. When I finally got a little grasp upon it, I feel good towards myself. I thought that "Hey, I can play and understand this!". Yet as I saw my friends who are musicians, playing their own tune, I realized that I am nowhere near them. My level of understanding is not matching with my ability of playing. Always thought that if I can play or at least understand the multifaceted Jazz, I can play them all. I tried and it helped. A lot. But still, I need to learn other genres too. Jazz helped me to understand better, and maybe someday, play better. I am still envious for those who are capable to enter Berklee. Either dropped out or graduated from it. To me, all of you musicians out there are still above me. That's what's keeps me going. I really want to have a conversation with all of you in a musical way. And I want you to enjoy having a conversation with me. Judge me anyway you want. I will pay a close attention to it. It will help me grow. It will help me to be in the same level as you. Whoever you are. Whatever language do you speak. Wherever you are in this world. I wish that whoever reading this comment will shoot me their Instagram profile so we can connect, share our knowledge and play whatever we want to play. I want to talk with you.
Truly sorry for the rants.
Sincerely yours
don't be jealous. The music reflects our journey. You have yours and no one will ever be able to express it the same way. It's not the technicality but what are you saying what does it mean to you? Esperanza Spalding former student alumni teacher and Grammy winner for a very good reason agrees on this. It is the truth.
@@Larindarr Thank you. It truly means a lot. Once, the great Tommy Emmanuel said that, musical theory will help you to express your journey in a better way. My way of thinking stems from that. However, you have your point by saying what you have said. It's a journey to oneself and depends on how the want to tell a story. Either its a simple story of having a cup of coffee in a foggy morning or other hardships in life. What kind of instruments do you play? How long have you been playing? Where are you from? I want to know you and everyone that replies to my comment. Thank you
Coltrane said that there's nothing harder than playing a straight melody without ornamentation, with a good clean sound.
I did a year at Berklee. I can totally relate. I do think suffering a bit of humiliation from time to time can become a positive growth experiences as a musician. Keeps you focused, open and helps temper the ego a bit. Thanks for sharing.
Get into a jam and get absolutely humiliated. Go home shed your ass off so you don't experience that again. Rinse and repeat!
Without a true and strong understanding of fundamentals one's output will reflect their superficial understanding. It will be all decoration without proper architecture: a pretty room on the brink of collapse.
This is an excellent video! I hope some of these kids listen to what you have to say. It’s good advice. I’ve been playing music for 44 years. 43 of those years as a professional. Even though I never went to music school I’ve worked as an arranger and conductor for several national acts. Music is all about “what sounds good.” Yes, I can blow over Giant Steps at warp speed. But that never got me a gig. LOL. But being able to play behind a singer and make that singer sound good has kept me working.
I think what you describe is true of other fields. Part of what is taught you will never use. Part of what you thought was worth learning actually holds you back. Much of what you need to know you are not ready for at that point in your life. There is no Yoda who can supply what is missing.
"you can never look at the absence of something and feel good"
Back in your day Berklee was pretty much the destination for aspring Jazz instrumentalist. More than a few major dudes passed thru there for a year or two. They began diversifying probably on the late 70s to early 80s. Like any institution theyve probably had to reinvent themselves to stay financially viable. Aint nobody interested in paying to learn to be playing Jazz. Sadly. The true American art form
Great that you share this kind of experience ! Thanks a lot ... Rasmus
As a slow music learner, this was heartwarming, thank you.
I can totally relate to what you are saying, and I am afraid it's even worse in a lot of ways. I've met plenty of musicians lately who just graduated from college and all they want to do is really out, modern stuff that is odd meter..etc. They find standards to be boring, and these jazz musicians actually look down at people who play too "traditional"! But then again, these guys are still glued to the realbook whenever they play any easy standards, and they don't seem to have a solid grasp of the vocabulary and swing feel that are essential for playing that type of music. Ask them to play a ballad or blues, and they will throw all sort of crazy stuff, but they have no clue as to how to play in pocket and play melodically.
I have nothing against modern jazz, and I actually love it, and IMO the best modern jazz players are firmly rooted in the traditional stuff, but then again I see people who are so caught up in following trends.. and it's like jazz elitism you described taken to the extreme.
You are right, at the end of the day it's about being open about all kinds of music and appreciating for what they are, and not get caught up in thinking that there is one genre of music that is "serious" and worthy your attention. I was guilty of that as well, and I feel like I neglected big part of musicianship because of that attitude, and I wish I realized that a lot earlier.
Great testimony. You are brave enough to talk with honesty about the issues and dificulties Of being a musician in the real World.
Just discovered your channel and subscribed...
I was humbled, when my new wife and I moved to Boston in '88, to learn that I was only one of like thirteen hundred guitar students and found myself playing gigs as 2nd guitarist to players for whom guitar was not even their primary instrument. Mixed experience with the school in general. My only audition was for the purpose of placement into classes. I was asked to play a couple of triad chord in three positions and two scales...no problem, right?
1. The two instructors placed me into Chord Lab II, where from day one I was increasingly behind having never played ANY of the complex extended chord voicings; That instructor, who was really quite a good player, became increasingly antagonistic until I finally took a W.
2. I was placed in sight reading lab with a handful of students who resented the instructor politely correcting them on the first day that they should've tuned before class started. I was the only one who came to class after that except one student from Israel who returned on finals day so he wouldn't fail. The soft-spoken teacher obliged. I became aware during that semester that my sight reading teacher, a fantastic teacher, had written a book on jazz improvisation and I'd had chances to hear him play, so once I realized I wouldn't have the next semester's tuition I arranged to study privately with him for the next year.
3. I was placed with a private instructor who acted as if I should know the lesson before the lesson. I can't ever recall him even being pleasant. I mentioned it once to my sight reading teacher (who I didn't know at the time was his office mate) and he agreed, stating that he really wanted to be playing in New York, not teaching.
4. While in the Berklee aura, I also had a chance to play in the back-up group for arguably the fastest emerging Contemporary Christian recording artist in the New England area. The band leader was a Berklee ear training prof and fantastic drummer. I learned so much about arranging from him.
5. The highlights at Berklee proper were meeting that sight reading teacher who changed my life opening me up to Jazz, Harmony II, Ear Training, Rhythm Section Arranging, Hearing Kenny Burrell speak and enjoying a Robben Ford clinic, but as many of my "musical gaps" (and I still have plenty) were filled being in proximity to Berklee as by paying tuition to Berklee. That place is a money-making machine!
Sorry this was so long. Also, I just started a channel in December and am struggling for Subscribers. It'd mean a lot if you'd give me a subscribe. Thanks and God bless.
I’m currently a Berklee student and there is no closed mindedness, there are classes that study metal musicians, rock, jazz, fusion, everything. There are also specific teachers and ensembles for all of those genres as well. Berklee is only concerned with analyzing your potential going in and then fulfilling it by the time you graduate. When you go to Berklee you’re going to realize that you’re not as “special” as you think you are and find that there are a lot more talented people, but that shouldnt discourage you, use that to motivate you to get better. Things may have changed though, my dad also went but when went it was an all jazz school.
Current Berklee student as well. Berklee is becoming less of a jazz school, since we are implementing more “post jazz” as well as classical elements to our curriculum. I can still see people being close minded about their genre, though. I feel like a good fraction of people are doing music for their own self-satisfaction.
I can relate about the advantages of getting older.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Without naming names, one other online teacher says that it is all to blame on academia.
Straight up. Same thing they were thought before them. Get the teaching job, make tenure, ride it out for the payoff. Second generation snobs.
Another, well known Jazz player, played for a couple big names, big band. Top shelf players. Solo musician. Says, what’s coming out of the schools has no idea what they are doing. They know a couple licks from some lesson books, thinks the fake books are the real deal and couldn’t arrange a backyard barbecue. Third generation snobs. Product of the above.
I really want to meet this guy someday!
I can comp a ii-V-I but I’ll admit I don’t know what to do with it or how choruses to play, but man I learned something myself.
My question though, were any of your instructors/teachers of any renown?
Did they play for Lionel Hampton? Buddy Rich?
Doc Severson? Play with Kenny? Pat? Miles?
Thank you for opening up on this kind of topics there are very necessary, I think you are making good use of the platform you’ve created to reach people, you´re an inspiration in various aspects; at this point in my musical journey I´m giving lessons at a well known bachelor´s school in the north of México solving the continuous puzzle of living of music and having time to study and having access to all the possible areas that I find that music touches, for me as a composer/bassist the past 20 years have been a continuous search of different kinds of music and musical expressions in the world and it´s been a difficult and lonely journey in the sense of finding musicians that not only appreciate different languages or styles of music, but that are also willing to get into them, I often encounter with the type of elitism or pride that you mention in the video, but not only of jazz or classical, this is present in many languages and styles of music its like an ideological battle with very little humility, respect and sense of admiration and wonder for other musical expressions, like not being able to admire the properties of plants or abilities of animals you don’t know they have and simply chop them down or relate or use them in a superficial utilitarian or decorative manner, I think is sad and and it dose not make justice for what lot of what music expresses or contains within, and it dose deviates a great deal of it´s function as a intelligent sensible and spiritual human communication device
I think teaching constant scale playing hurts things without rythm.
I have been teaching "jazz history" (a tag I hate) for 45 years. I have engaged a lifelong battle against the type of "jazz teaching" you refer to. I totally understand your problem. You have my deepest solidarity. You are one of many victims of a way of teaching jazz that passes on a distorted wisdom, based on a distorted description of the past. Nothing good can come out of such nonsense. Please feel free to contact me on FB or in any other way, if you feel so inclined.
Adding my two cents worth to the excellent comments, as a professional musician for many years, I've ALWAYS seen my goal and responsibility as one of making music out of anything I'm handed regardless of genre. If i can't do that, I'm not doing what I set out to do as an inspired musician.
I had the same kind of thing happen to me at UNT. There was no way in hell I could've afforded Berklee, even back then. (late 80's) Luckilyl for me, UNT was in my back yard. I went to UNT as a grad student only to find undergrads that could play circles around me. My big "learning opportunity" was around sight reading. Strange that a place that emphasizes the need for sight reading didn't really have a method for teaching it... A quote from an instructor that was there at our "Welcome" meeting: "If you can't sight read, you are musically illiterate." I could sight read, just not well. In any case, I tried and tried and did get better, but not remarkably so until many years later when a friend said one thing and a great deal rapidly fell into place. I still work on sight reading to this day.
Music schools are great for finding out what we need to work on. That's what they're supposed to do. And of course, once you graduate and look back on it, you find it was really only the beginning of the story and not the end. 8-)
You're going to say all that and then not say what the one thing is your friend said to you about sight reading?! ;) Oh the suspense!
Music student here into fusion. This story could not be truer. THANKYoU for this!
Excellent points and kudos to you for bringing it up.
If every video had at least 10 or 20 comments like the ones below, the internet coud be a much better place. Im literally touched about the quality and quantity of this comments, this is the kind of actitudes we deserve, so keep those videos flowing. Greetings from Montevideo, Uruguay.
That was
Real informative and cool. Thanks for the interesting stories and info. I’ve taken this all to heart
Sounds like we are the same age, i almost went to berklee after attending one of their summer camps in california, fortunately a friend who was a great bone player and had a free ride went ahead and returned a couple years later filled us in. Its great for some but ultimately is still a mill. I went through the jazz snob phase, learned giant steps.. Etc. All i can say is when one grows up they see that jazz snob = asswipe and what you thought was important..... Isnt.
Thanks for the confessions! I lived in the Boston area for several decades, and although I was a software engineer by day, I became friends with and took lessons from several Berklee professors, students and dropouts, so I was not as immersed in that culture as you were, but not too far removed. Ironically I retired to a warm place far from Boston and took several Berklee Online courses, most of which were good although I already knew much of the material. I remember one Berklee prof that I took lessons from in the late 90's for a couple years. At that point he loved me because I actually practiced (many of his foreign students apparently did not) and I recall an intense discussion where he drew me in with all kinds of theory until he started discussing the "lydian crustacean mode" at which point he told me to lighten up more and enjoy it! One thing with which I totally agree is that I regret feeling I had to have music in front of me all of the time. Of course, back then, the joke was "how do you shut up a guitar player? Put music in front of him/her". I think what I learned is that you can get a lop of help and clues, but ultimately, you are your own teacher.
A person must listen to as many recordings as possible. Through listening are you now aware of great ideas, fantastic musicians and different styles.
Thought the same when I was young. But now I like to listen to selected music over an over again until I can fart the melodies and invoke the chords with my toes while doing push ups, drinking coffee and brushing my teeth. I think you'll learn more about the micro nuances if you stick on selected records. Listening to other music is educational no doubt, though. But the most beauty is in the details.
It depends on your musical learning path. I am 63 years old and I started playing guitar as a teenager by ear. I started with the Beatles and Rolling Stone and then moved on to progressive rock (Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Genesis, Yes). I started to seriously study the harmony of Bossa Nova and Samba at 16 years old. then I went to Miles Davis' Bitches Brew and I studied Chich Corea and the jazz greats who had gone into the electric world. Afterwards I dedicated myself to Jazz standards and bebop phrasing but my ear was always before the score. If you can sing it you can play it. I rediscovered classical music by studying Charlie Parker's solos . Even today I study and move from one ganere to another. My reading ability at first sight is not good but the ear always anticipates. I love music transversely and I think learning is a subjective experience and that it is not objectivable.
Thanks for the super video (among many) and the comments from Tom Scott. There's a great book on the problems of actually improvising and the pitfalls of using muscle memory only called, "Lee Konitz: Conversations on the Art of Improvisation." He supports Tom's comments and cites Warn Marsh and Wayne Shorter as two that approach what they play(ed) from ear. The late great Larry Sleazak would teach to pick a standard you think you already know, and play the melody with the singer as close to EXACTLY what they're doing in real time, without any pre-planning. I would pick something like The Days of Wine and Roses or There is no Greater Love and found people like Holiday, Ella, Bennett, Wilson, Sinatra, Washington, etc. singing it. What an eye-opening and useful instructional method this turned out to be. And turned out to be a lot harder than I thought. It showed the subtleties that the ear can take for granted with familiarity. Not to mention the depth that's left out when muscle memory trumps what you hear. If you want to give a listen to Larry, here's a couple of links:
Just Squeeze Me
ruclips.net/video/AAIgRavOkvw/видео.html
The Theme
ruclips.net/video/3_qBI5m4_wo/видео.html
There's a similar situation in the guitar world between the elitist and actual players, especially in the world of classical guitar. A guitar education reformation is very much needed. Guitar teachers who swear by sight-reading project an attitude that frequently inhibits the well-rounded development and growth of guitarists by discouraging them from using tabulature. Sight-reading with guitar presents many peculiar problems that is not common with other instruments. People have preconceived notions regarding tabs, mainly because of all the bad internet tabs out there, which are just as trashy as bad sheet music. In the right hands tabs provide the perfect learning tool from beginners to professionals. People need to be set free to explore music without being forced out of their own ideas of how learning takes place in the best possible way. Guitar magazines have been publishing quality tabs for over 50 years now, but the classical world doesn't want to get in on it. Tabs have been with us for at least 700 years. Somewhere in the last century, when guitar was being brought to the concert stage, it took on the elitist culture and has been plagued ever since with players having to put on a frickin' bow tie while playing. Thankfully, there have been artists like Maria Joao Pires, who are consciously aware of these unhealthy attitudes being imposed. Tabs tend to trigger elitists like nothing else. Use tabs and they won't consider you seriously, no matter how good you are. They'd banish you from the whole community if possible.
”There’s no doubt that we’re living in such a highly mechanized, computerized society, and I think it’s to be expected that all that kind of reflects itself in the way people play and in the way that people think about these works of art. You have international piano competitions. Then you have the urtext crowd. They seem to think of music as being ruled by a very rigid set of absolutes. I have said this a million times, in all my career and all my years, I have found one musical absolute that I accept. I haven’t found the second one, and I defy anyone to tell me that there is a second one. I’ve come to that conclusion. And that absolute is ’there are no absolutes in music’. Everything in music is relative - everything. Including what a composer wrote.” -Jorge Bolet
ruclips.net/video/vEGgyeOjXX4/видео.html
Social experiment on the war between tabs and standard music notation for guitar: instagram.com/gottabsforthat/
Just learn to read. I did after learning tab. I found that I needed to in order to play with brass and reed players who read standard notation. It was a liberation and in due course I was able to write brass parts for the music I wanted them to play. Tab is ok but if you want to be inclusive, notation is better.
@@irishmuso7129 I do sight-read music and play other instruments. The piano is perfect for standard notation, as it is perfectly laid out visually. Guitar and standard notation don't go well together at all, especially during the first 10 years of learning. The best way to teach the fretboard has always been with visual learning tools, such as patterns, shapes, block diagrams (see Ted Greene), graphs, and so forth. Tabs should always be there as a tool to use while learning to sight-read. There's no point to argue whether which is more important for you, food or water. As teachers we need to use all the tools necessary for the learning process to be made enjoyable and interesting. It's with subtle either-or attitudes that really has been destructive. The new generation is smart, but they also need things to be fast. Tabs can give a great headstart for the player to want to go on, like learning to walk before learning to run. What I'm saying is that we need to get the mental blocks out of the way. Most guitar players hate sight-reading, because it just is so difficult. For them I'd recommend learning music theory and sight-reading by playing the piano. Eventually you can combine them and it'll feel much less of an effort. It's also interesting to note that the majority of guitar players in today's world don't sight read. There's a reason for that, and it's quite interesting when you begin to look into it. For jazz, sight-reading definitely is a given. There's a reason why jazz is so inclusive. There's a reason for everything. Most guitar players would love to know jazz, but no matter how good they are, they feel learning to sight-read just isn't for everyone. Yet with all other instruments it's a given. I've had lots of students and most of them just want to play and there's plenty of material for them to do that. You can't force them to sight-read, and sheet music is usually a turn-off. That's why good, quality tabbing is critical, because that way you're constantly building up neurons, so when the time is right, sight reading becomes natural. But even after that, tabs are and have always been used by professionals. They're great for composing and arranging, finding possibilities. You work with them at the drawing board, and when things are right from all angles, playability, efficiency, tone and resonance, then the sheet music will be high quality. Sheet music is usually crap, especially with classical guitar music, always seems that so many better possibilities are overlooked, the fingerings are always off, and the reason is because of the endless variations of fingerings, string cross talk, etc. etc.
Imma keep it a buck, the fact the this video is deadass 12 of ur voice over the same screen just makes people want to click on something else. Like you’re probably giving valuable insight but I jus can bring myself to finish this shit🤣
I find it interesting hearing your struggles post berklee, because I've definitely been asked by private instructors to practice improvising over a single chord. Ear training has also been incredibly valuable in strengthening my ear, for doing things like following a melody by ear. I imagine the curriculum is different now than it was, but the issues you mentioned, I've actually seen an active attempt to mitigate in my time at Berklee