Just wanted to say thanks for all your WM reviews. I have found them really informative and a helpful resource and there isn’t really any WM reviews on RUclips!
You are so welcome. It was because there was so little info available when I was purchasing these bags that I am doing this now, so that others can make a more informed decision. Thanks for watching and acknowledging my efforts!
Have this bag since 2 years. It is so roomey, so comfortable. Was fine in -5 celsius and i'm freezing quick. In summer i use it as a 2 person blanket with my partner. I'm 184cm (6 foot) and 80kg. I can move in all directions in the sleeping bag without being restricted. Love it.
Sir, I was wondering it the baffles are boxed or sewn- throug? Found your video very informative and well done. Liked your channel and became a subscriber.
Thank you for subscribing! So, the Sycamore has baffling material between the outer and inner fabric, making it a box baffle construction. The only Western Mountaineering sleeping bag I own that is "sewn through", is the MityLite. I have a review of it on my channel. Thanks for watching! Matt
Congrats for including the info about the YKK COIL zippers. If a person spills coffee or any other liquid on the Microfiber outer material it will absorb the liquid like a sponge. 2,000mm Hydrostatic Head rating. Their Gore-Windstopper outer fabric has a 12,000mm Hydrostatic Head rating. Liquids will roll off it, no problem. Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada
I forgot to mention the hydorstatic head ratings. I also forget to mention that the short zippers across the bottom of the semi-rectangular are indeed not coil zippers, but rather toothed zippers. I think that might be so that you can differentiate between the two in the dark? Maybe? I don't know. thanks for watching, take care. Matt
@@mattsmountainmadness Consider pouring hot coffee on the MF outer fabric, then pour hot coffee onto the GWS outer - that will tell the story loud & clear. Everyone can relate to the spilled coffee scenario. BTW, we live in different worlds; I'm 5'3" & have the "short" (5'6")version of the Antelope. I have plenty of room inside most any 1-person tent ever made. Hilleberg Enan is my choice. Goosefeet brand of 100% overfilled Goose Down booties keep my tootsies comfy warm instead of the Antelope's footbox. Get a pair for your wife, after hearing her rave comments you'll be wishing you'd also gotten a pair for yourself. And you can buy them in HER favorite color.
Years back I was cooking stew at -20F in my tent. I had a Ziploc bag with soy sauce, Worcestershire sauce, and beef bouillon tear and splash on my the new WM Cypress. I was beside myself with grief. but, with a little water and a pellet cloth, it cleaned right up. Quite literally cannot tell it was ever there. If it were my Bristlecone or Sycamore MF, I would still be looking at those brown stains today.
Matt I would appreciate your advice on winter sleeping bags. I am a side sleeper who tends to toss and turn frequently. Trust me when I say it, it's not my sleeping pad causing me to toss and turn as I do that in every bed I've slept in. Despite using a -30°C down mummy bag from a reputable manufacturer, I still feel some coldness, in temperatures as mild as 23 to to 14 F. My bag has insulation distributed equally on the top and bottom, rather than a 60-40 fill pattern. Even with another synthetic bag I used before I bought the current -30 one, I encountered the same issue. I am not a cold sleeper. I have tried various strategies such as using a high R-value (7+) sleeping mat, consuming high-fat meals before bed, using hot water bottles, changing clothes, doing jumping jacks, wearing booties, taking sleeping aids, and more. However, due to my tossing and turning during the night, I find that my rear end and the back of my legs get cold. The movement causes my sleeping bag to shift with me, potentially exposing my backside to compressed down insulation. . It seems that winter bags are primarily designed for back sleepers who move minimally during sleep. In my situation, would it be beneficial to invest in a larger sleeping bag with more girth (e.g. like the WM Kodiak) so that I can move around inside without disturbing the bags position? Alternatively, should I consider using a quilt on top of the existing bag? I am 6 feet tall , 185 lbs but use a bag designed for someone 6 foot 6 inches (I fill the bottom with gear). I would like to keep weight and pack size down as much as feasible. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks for watching and reaching out. It sounds like you are in a pretty frustrating situation that is keeping you from fully enjoying your outdoor adventures. In reading through your comment, you state a couple of things of which only one can be true. The bag is rated to -30C, and that you are not a cold sleeper (I.E. You tend to sleep comfortable at lower temperatures.). I would be more inclined to believe that it is not you but rather your sleeping bag that is the issue. It sounds like you sleep a lot like I do. Side sleeper, toss from side to side a couple few times throughout the night and my knees, thighs and backside are what get chilled first. I am putting together a video about how to side sleep in a mummy bag. Only about 11 percent of the population sleep on their backs, leaving 8 out of 9 people to figure it out on their own. I am not here to bad mouth other manufacturer's bags at all, but at the end of the day, thickness of insulation is what matters most in how cold a sleeping bag will take you. It is what I learned 40 year ago and I believe it still holds true today. My WM Bristlecone is rated to -23C. It is 9" thick. I have slept warm at -26C in it. If it were 6" thick, I would sleep comfortably at -12C (my WM Badger is 6" thick). If your -30C bag is under 6" thick, I would be getting chills at 14F. Extra space in the bag reduces thermal efficiency but is necessary for side sleeping comfort ( I too use 6' 6" models). Having a good neck collar is key to keeping that warm air in the body of the bag. As side sleepers, we require some extra room to sleep comfortably. You are just a bit taller and heavier than me. I can tell you that the Kodiak has all the room that you will ever need to side sleep comfortably in. If you can at all afford the price, I really believe your troubles would be over. As a fellow side sleeper, I too don't want the bag to "roll with me". The Kodiak is light, very compressible and extremely warm. The neck collar is very efficient at keeping the warm air in the body of the bag so that I don't get chilled when I turn from side to side. With the Kodiak, you likely won't need the additional quilt (which likely won't stay put anyway) ,and, the bag will stay in place when you move from side to side. With the neck collar employed, you won't be getting chills from air slipping in from outside. That is my 2 cents worth my friend. I am a small framed man that needs extra space to sleep comfortably. There is no shame in that. If you haven't already, check out my review of the Kodiak as well as the Kodiak vs Sequoia, these videos may help further. You shouldn't be having to employ all the "tricks" you have been using just to get a decent night's sleep. So, my advice to you is, stop torturing yourself, buy a big, thick, roomy down filled WM sleeping bag and put this problem to bed. I know that that is easier said than done, but once I did that, all of my sleeping bag frustrations were over. I have had some very nice down bags from other manufacturers over the years, (North face, REI etc.) but after the first night sleeping in a Western Mountaineering bag, I knew that they were on a whole different level regarding warmth and comfort. That is my honest experience. If you aren't a cold sleeper, the Kodiak should keep you comfortable and chill free down to at least 5F and probably colder. Seriously. I have slept comfortably in my Sequoia which is even roomier than the Kodiak below zero with only a base layer on. In conclusion, I tout Western Mountaineering sleeping bags only because they are so much better than any other bag that I've ever used. But at the end of the day, regardless of the brand, thickness and space are what is required in a sleeping bag to sleep comfortably as a side sleeper in the cold. Additionally, a proper neck collar is also key. Man I hope all this helps. We all sleep differently, and have different constraints that need to be addressed. My hope is that you get this problem solved so that you can get on with enjoying your outdoor adventures. If you could, I'd love to hear what you ultimately decide to go with. Take care, Matt
@@mattsmountainmadnessThank you Matt for your very thorough answer. You went beyond my expectations. I haven't measured the loft on my current bag but I do believe it's around 7 inches. It's very tight inside for me as the shoulder girth is 57 inches and hip girth is 53 inches. I know the WM bags are expensive but so are the ones from other manufacturers. The good thing is we have a few dealers locally that will likely let me lay inside the bag to test it out. The cold winter camping season here is pretty so the following months will give me some extra time some more investigating on specifically which bag to get. I will let you know which one. I'm really looking forward to your side sleeping video 👍👍 I know how much work and time goes into putting such videos together.
That would be great if you can actually get inside a bag or two to truly know what a given bag feels like. Sounds like the bag you are in has an extremely efficient cut to it. The Kodiak will feel big as a house in comparison. You've inspired me to make the side sleeping video next. I've been wanting to do it for a long time. So stay tuned and good luck in your quest. Oh, and by the way, I didn't mean to imply that your sleeping bag isn't rated to -30, but rather that it isn't able to keep you warm anywhere near it's rating in your experiences. Take care and I wish you the best in your quest for the right sleeping bag. Matt
@@mattsmountainmadness The bag I own is called the MEC Thor -30. MEC is the equivalent to REI in the US. They don't make it anymore but if you do a google search on it (I would share the link but RUclips does not allow that in comments), the product page will come up. They don;t list whether the -30 C limit is the extreme rating or comfort rating. They have come out with a new model of the bag called the MEC Talon -30. Oh, and if you ever make a winter sleeping bag / side sleepers video, I'm pretty sure it will be the only one on RUclips.
I own a -20f REI bag, and I think that is about -30c. As a side sleeper, I can say that the width of the bag is a major contributing factor to how cold the bag sleeps. Although the bag is rated to -20, I start to get cold at -10 because my knees are pressed against the zipper and my backside is compressing the down. A bag with more room, like the WM Kodiak, would likely solve your problem, at least in my experience. I also own a WM Kodiak, and I can take it down to colder temperatures than the REI bag.
Hi Matt- nice video. I am wondering how you find the fit of the Sycamore compared to the Bristlecone. The specs on the Bristlecone show that it's a little bit wider, especially in the shoulder area, but I am wondering if you feel there is a noticeable difference once you are in the bag. Since the Sycamore is only 6' it may be an apples: apples comparison but I am wondering which bag has a better fit for you, at least girth-wise. Thanks!
My Sycamore will fit perfectly inside of my Bristlecone. The waist and footbox measurements are only two inches bigger on the Bristlecone but the shoulder measurement is 4 inches bigger. I find the 62" shoulder in the Sycamore to be comfortable.....for me. 20 years ago I had 15 pounds more muscle on me I was climbing and strength training alot. I think back then the shoulder size of this bag may have been issue....maybe? but at 5' 10" 160 lbs. I find the shoulder area plenty wide and roomy for me, and the 59" waist is more than enough to accommodate side sleeping. The Bristlecone is too big for my scrawny ass, but I love it and it keeps me warm. hope that helps, Matt
No, but I've been drooling over them for years. I just don't have much of an application for one. I have a couple cheap down blankets that fill any needs I might have for a comforter. I bet they are very warm and luxurious. Maybe if I lived in a cabin.....
Hey Matt. Great video. I don't think anyone else has done a video review of this one. When you and the bag brands talk about loft, does that mean the total height of the bag from the sleeping pad / mat when it is closed and zipped up, or does that mean the thickness of just the top or bottom of the bag, and so the loft of the baffles themselves, not the entire bag? So for example, when the bag is fully unzipped and laid out flat, should it still be 5 inches thick all over, or would it then be half that, about 2.5 inches thick? Thanks.
That's a really good question as I never defined it. The loft measurement is for the entire bag, zipped up, from the surface of the pad to the top of the bag. Now this bag has continuous baffles which allow you to shift the down from the topside of the bag to the bottom, or vise versa. So you could have say 4" on the top of down insulation and about 1" on the bottom for a cooler night. I hope that clears it up. Thanks for watching, take care, Matt
Just wanted to say thanks for all your WM reviews. I have found them really informative and a helpful resource and there isn’t really any WM reviews on RUclips!
You are so welcome. It was because there was so little info available when I was purchasing these bags that I am doing this now, so that others can make a more informed decision. Thanks for watching and acknowledging my efforts!
Have this bag since 2 years. It is so roomey, so comfortable. Was fine in -5 celsius and i'm freezing quick. In summer i use it as a 2 person blanket with my partner.
I'm 184cm (6 foot) and 80kg. I can move in all directions in the sleeping bag without being restricted. Love it.
@@scherry2900 That's great! Thanks for sharing your experience with this bag! Happy Trails, Matt
6'6" - Got it!
You can always throw a sweater or down jacket at the bottom to take up the extra space as well.
Sir, I was wondering it the baffles are boxed or sewn- throug? Found your video very informative and well done. Liked your channel and became a subscriber.
Thank you for subscribing! So, the Sycamore has baffling material between the outer and inner fabric, making it a box baffle construction. The only Western Mountaineering sleeping bag I own that is "sewn through", is the MityLite. I have a review of it on my channel. Thanks for watching! Matt
Congrats for including the info about the YKK COIL zippers.
If a person spills coffee or any other liquid on the Microfiber outer material it will absorb the liquid like a sponge. 2,000mm Hydrostatic Head rating.
Their Gore-Windstopper outer fabric has a 12,000mm Hydrostatic Head rating. Liquids will roll off it, no problem.
Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada
I forgot to mention the hydorstatic head ratings. I also forget to mention that the short zippers across the bottom of the semi-rectangular are indeed not coil zippers, but rather toothed zippers. I think that might be so that you can differentiate between the two in the dark? Maybe? I don't know. thanks for watching, take care. Matt
@@mattsmountainmadness Consider pouring hot coffee on the MF outer fabric, then pour hot coffee onto the GWS outer - that will tell the story loud & clear. Everyone can relate to the spilled coffee scenario.
BTW, we live in different worlds; I'm 5'3" & have the "short" (5'6")version of the Antelope. I have plenty of room inside most any 1-person tent ever made. Hilleberg Enan is my choice.
Goosefeet brand of 100% overfilled Goose Down booties keep my tootsies comfy warm instead of the Antelope's footbox. Get a pair for your wife, after hearing her rave comments you'll be wishing you'd also gotten a pair for yourself. And you can buy them in HER favorite color.
Years back I was cooking stew at -20F in my tent. I had a Ziploc bag with soy sauce, Worcestershire sauce, and beef bouillon tear and splash on my the new WM Cypress. I was beside myself with grief. but, with a little water and a pellet cloth, it cleaned right up. Quite literally cannot tell it was ever there. If it were my Bristlecone or Sycamore MF, I would still be looking at those brown stains today.
@@mattsmountainmadnessWith an experience like that I'm surprised you ever bought any WM with a MF outer.
All my bags would be GWS if it were offered. However, that is not the case, so, compromises had to be made.
valuable review - thx
Thanks for watching!
Matt I would appreciate your advice on winter sleeping bags. I am a side sleeper who tends to toss and turn frequently. Trust me when I say it, it's not my sleeping pad causing me to toss and turn as I do that in every bed I've slept in.
Despite using a -30°C down mummy bag from a reputable manufacturer, I still feel some coldness, in temperatures as mild as 23 to to 14 F. My bag has insulation distributed equally on the top and bottom, rather than a 60-40 fill pattern. Even with another synthetic bag I used before I bought the current -30 one, I encountered the same issue. I am not a cold sleeper.
I have tried various strategies such as using a high R-value (7+) sleeping mat, consuming high-fat meals before bed, using hot water bottles, changing clothes, doing jumping jacks, wearing booties, taking sleeping aids, and more. However, due to my tossing and turning during the night, I find that my rear end and the back of my legs get cold. The movement causes my sleeping bag to shift with me, potentially exposing my backside to compressed down insulation. . It seems that winter bags are primarily designed for back sleepers who move minimally during sleep.
In my situation, would it be beneficial to invest in a larger sleeping bag with more girth (e.g. like the WM Kodiak) so that I can move around inside without disturbing the bags position? Alternatively, should I consider using a quilt on top of the existing bag? I am 6 feet tall , 185 lbs but use a bag designed for someone 6 foot 6 inches (I fill the bottom with gear). I would like to keep weight and pack size down as much as feasible. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks for watching and reaching out. It sounds like you are in a pretty frustrating situation that is keeping you from fully enjoying your outdoor adventures. In reading through your comment, you state a couple of things of which only one can be true. The bag is rated to -30C, and that you are not a cold sleeper (I.E. You tend to sleep comfortable at lower temperatures.). I would be more inclined to believe that it is not you but rather your sleeping bag that is the issue. It sounds like you sleep a lot like I do. Side sleeper, toss from side to side a couple few times throughout the night and my knees, thighs and backside are what get chilled first. I am putting together a video about how to side sleep in a mummy bag. Only about 11 percent of the population sleep on their backs, leaving 8 out of 9 people to figure it out on their own.
I am not here to bad mouth other manufacturer's bags at all, but at the end of the day, thickness of insulation is what matters most in how cold a sleeping bag will take you. It is what I learned 40 year ago and I believe it still holds true today. My WM Bristlecone is rated to -23C. It is 9" thick. I have slept warm at -26C in it. If it were 6" thick, I would sleep comfortably at -12C (my WM Badger is 6" thick). If your -30C bag is under 6" thick, I would be getting chills at 14F. Extra space in the bag reduces thermal efficiency but is necessary for side sleeping comfort ( I too use 6' 6" models). Having a good neck collar is key to keeping that warm air in the body of the bag.
As side sleepers, we require some extra room to sleep comfortably. You are just a bit taller and heavier than me. I can tell you that the Kodiak has all the room that you will ever need to side sleep comfortably in. If you can at all afford the price, I really believe your troubles would be over. As a fellow side sleeper, I too don't want the bag to "roll with me". The Kodiak is light, very compressible and extremely warm. The neck collar is very efficient at keeping the warm air in the body of the bag so that I don't get chilled when I turn from side to side.
With the Kodiak, you likely won't need the additional quilt (which likely won't stay put anyway) ,and, the bag will stay in place when you move from side to side. With the neck collar employed, you won't be getting chills from air slipping in from outside.
That is my 2 cents worth my friend. I am a small framed man that needs extra space to sleep comfortably. There is no shame in that. If you haven't already, check out my review of the Kodiak as well as the Kodiak vs Sequoia, these videos may help further.
You shouldn't be having to employ all the "tricks" you have been using just to get a decent night's sleep. So, my advice to you is, stop torturing yourself, buy a big, thick, roomy down filled WM sleeping bag and put this problem to bed. I know that that is easier said than done, but once I did that, all of my sleeping bag frustrations were over. I have had some very nice down bags from other manufacturers over the years, (North face, REI etc.) but after the first night sleeping in a Western Mountaineering bag, I knew that they were on a whole different level regarding warmth and comfort. That is my honest experience. If you aren't a cold sleeper, the Kodiak should keep you comfortable and chill free down to at least 5F and probably colder. Seriously. I have slept comfortably in my Sequoia which is even roomier than the Kodiak below zero with only a base layer on.
In conclusion, I tout Western Mountaineering sleeping bags only because they are so much better than any other bag that I've ever used. But at the end of the day, regardless of the brand, thickness and space are what is required in a sleeping bag to sleep comfortably as a side sleeper in the cold. Additionally, a proper neck collar is also key. Man I hope all this helps. We all sleep differently, and have different constraints that need to be addressed. My hope is that you get this problem solved so that you can get on with enjoying your outdoor adventures. If you could, I'd love to hear what you ultimately decide to go with. Take care, Matt
@@mattsmountainmadnessThank you Matt for your very thorough answer. You went beyond my expectations. I haven't measured the loft on my current bag but I do believe it's around 7 inches. It's very tight inside for me as the shoulder girth is 57 inches and hip girth is 53 inches.
I know the WM bags are expensive but so are the ones from other manufacturers. The good thing is we have a few dealers locally that will likely let me lay inside the bag to test it out. The cold winter camping season here is pretty so the following months will give me some extra time some more investigating on specifically which bag to get. I will let you know which one.
I'm really looking forward to your side sleeping video 👍👍 I know how much work and time goes into putting such videos together.
That would be great if you can actually get inside a bag or two to truly know what a given bag feels like. Sounds like the bag you are in has an extremely efficient cut to it. The Kodiak will feel big as a house in comparison. You've inspired me to make the side sleeping video next. I've been wanting to do it for a long time. So stay tuned and good luck in your quest. Oh, and by the way, I didn't mean to imply that your sleeping bag isn't rated to -30, but rather that it isn't able to keep you warm anywhere near it's rating in your experiences. Take care and I wish you the best in your quest for the right sleeping bag. Matt
@@mattsmountainmadness The bag I own is called the MEC Thor -30. MEC is the equivalent to REI in the US. They don't make it anymore but if you do a google search on it (I would share the link but RUclips does not allow that in comments), the product page will come up. They don;t list whether the -30 C limit is the extreme rating or comfort rating. They have come out with a new model of the bag called the MEC Talon -30.
Oh, and if you ever make a winter sleeping bag / side sleepers video, I'm pretty sure it will be the only one on RUclips.
I own a -20f REI bag, and I think that is about -30c. As a side sleeper, I can say that the width of the bag is a major contributing factor to how cold the bag sleeps. Although the bag is rated to -20, I start to get cold at -10 because my knees are pressed against the zipper and my backside is compressing the down. A bag with more room, like the WM Kodiak, would likely solve your problem, at least in my experience. I also own a WM Kodiak, and I can take it down to colder temperatures than the REI bag.
Hi Matt- nice video. I am wondering how you find the fit of the Sycamore compared to the Bristlecone. The specs on the Bristlecone show that it's a little bit wider, especially in the shoulder area, but I am wondering if you feel there is a noticeable difference once you are in the bag. Since the Sycamore is only 6' it may be an apples: apples comparison but I am wondering which bag has a better fit for you, at least girth-wise. Thanks!
My Sycamore will fit perfectly inside of my Bristlecone. The waist and footbox measurements are only two inches bigger on the Bristlecone but the shoulder measurement is 4 inches bigger. I find the 62" shoulder in the Sycamore to be comfortable.....for me. 20 years ago I had 15 pounds more muscle on me I was climbing and strength training alot. I think back then the shoulder size of this bag may have been issue....maybe? but at 5' 10" 160 lbs. I find the shoulder area plenty wide and roomy for me, and the 59" waist is more than enough to accommodate side sleeping. The Bristlecone is too big for my scrawny ass, but I love it and it keeps me warm. hope that helps, Matt
hi matt , i was wondering if you have used the western mountaineering cloud 9 comforter ?
No, but I've been drooling over them for years. I just don't have much of an application for one. I have a couple cheap down blankets that fill any needs I might have for a comforter. I bet they are very warm and luxurious. Maybe if I lived in a cabin.....
Hey Matt. Great video. I don't think anyone else has done a video review of this one. When you and the bag brands talk about loft, does that mean the total height of the bag from the sleeping pad / mat when it is closed and zipped up, or does that mean the thickness of just the top or bottom of the bag, and so the loft of the baffles themselves, not the entire bag? So for example, when the bag is fully unzipped and laid out flat, should it still be 5 inches thick all over, or would it then be half that, about 2.5 inches thick? Thanks.
That's a really good question as I never defined it. The loft measurement is for the entire bag, zipped up, from the surface of the pad to the top of the bag. Now this bag has continuous baffles which allow you to shift the down from the topside of the bag to the bottom, or vise versa. So you could have say 4" on the top of down insulation and about 1" on the bottom for a cooler night. I hope that clears it up. Thanks for watching, take care, Matt