Love this video. This fella showing this test is bang on. In the real world, if you can’t achieve the desired flow rate to carry out the test, you have to use your noggin’ a little more and that is where experience comes in. To the apprentices watching, listen to the old fart that is trying to teach you. We may not be ‘cool’ but the odd few of us know a thing or two. Top effort. 👍
When you say if you can't achieve the desired flow rate you are obviously speaking about the secondary side of the plate right. And in this case what would you do?
Double check that the water inlet isolation valve hasn't been turned down. The hot water flow usually stays about the same on a blocked plate. As it usually the flow circuit from the main heat exchanger which gets blocked . Check your mains water tap is open fully and follow the cold water feed from the boiler back. Sometimes there's an isolation valve or something similar fitted. This could also reduce the flow to all hot water outlets.
Very good video , sorry if this question seems silly, On a boiler with a 3 speed pump, Does the speed setting of the pump have any bearing on the heat transfer temperature from the main heat exchanger to the domestic hot water at the plate heat exchanger or will there be no difference what ever the pump speed is
So to recap first test between hot and cold and check for 35⁰C temperature rise and stable reading. Then test between hot water outlet and pipe between pump and main heat exchanger, there were 20⁰C difference and there should be zero or close to zero. But when it finally became 0 on third attempt, is it because you cleaned the plate or you put the clamps somewhere else? Thanks advance!
Can anyone help me diagnose my issue - basically turn tap on, might get a little bit of hot for a few seconds (in the PHE?) then cold - then takes ages, a minute maybe of completely cold water, then the hot starts to come through. Once flowing it's fine, stays how, flow rate no problem, runs all day. I swapped the DHW spinner last year, when you turn on a tap the sensor lights up solid instantly, boiler seems to start. I removed the diverter valve and stripped it, cleaned it in ultrasonic cleaner, put in new seals, rebuilt it with lashings of silicone grease Actuator works fine, tap on, tap off it moves in and out and the plunger pushes in no problem in the valve (did before cleaning anyway) - heating outlet not getting hot when waiting for water PHE off and cleaned with drain cleaner and in ultrasonic, just a bit of rusty crap coming out, no sludge in there and it's a soft water area so no limescale.... Water flows though both sides well from hose pipe. Again once running hot water is more than adequate, heating works fine Waiting for a plumber friend to come check gas pressures etc as very rarely do get an ignition failure - can't see it being that as it locks out after 3 failed starts and it's very rare (maybe 1 this year)??? Boiler did have a gas valve about half it's life ago as it had turned into a vuvuzela.... I'm stumped!! Help lol 😄
Hi Allen, thanks for your videos. Always learning something new. You mentioned that Kevin is sending you lots of in depth videos. Any chance you could put them all in a playlist?
Having watched Toms top tips ruclips.net/video/CeVRy_QQDeY/видео.html do I need to bother watching? :p Edit: Great video. I'm training, so perhaps more useful to me than for others, but some valuable info.
Mate how much would you charge to do install training? I’m gas safe, but all my gas is servicing, I want to push into installs and breakdowns but there’s no where for me to actually learn installs properly.
I'm in the same boat as you mate it's tricky. I took a job on installs and was told I would be trained. then when starting someone turned up to "watch me" change a system to combi. made me feel like a right nob then laid me off 2 weeks before Christmas after I'd been honest and told them I wasn't an experienced installer at the interview. I left a well paid job fitting meters for that as well. Awful company
Ya know, your probably right and it makes sense when you say that, but it never crossed my mind, I will level with you all, you may think from my videos that I know a lot about our industry but infact I don’t, I have never been a plumber, only a gas engineer, trained by BG, never done any renewables but stuck to my one discipline in the theory I can get really really good at the one subject rather than spread myself too thinly across a broad range of products, and be average at them all, that was my thinking so I really do not know much about plumbing etc. So I will share what I know and hopefully be educated too along the way. 👍
@@kevincranfield5235 fair play to you mate at least you're taking time to try and educate. so few people want to help anyone in this trade who wants to actually learn
Not sure of its a separate issue but a) lack of hot water via taps . Mostly goes cold ..... kitchen tap (,been fine 3+ years now is the only tap mainly that don't cause boiper to ignite . 9ccasionally it'll stop getting up upstairs bath over head shower (mixer. Both are ) a head ache indeed . New vaove cartridge here and diverter pump Thanks 4 your help
It’s the prefix, the 3 letters before the 15 numbers of the serial number. So for instance if you had a prefix which read ABE that’s pre ABK, and onwards would be alphabetic letters after that?!! Does that make sense.
Excellent video Allen, great tips and something to take on board. I have the testo probes myself and use for boiler commissioning.. Can you do a video on balancing radiators using the testo probes... I’ve tied but struggle to get the ideal 11 degree difference between flow and return
Great video and just one quick question: What I understand is that the heat lost in the primary circuit between flow and return should be gained by hot water side.? Lets say the primary flow was 75c then return 40c. Then the hot water would be 40c? How is that. Bec i thought the hot water temp = cold water in temp + (diff between primary flow and return) So lets say cold water is 8 c and the pFlow 75 preturn 50c( meaning a 25c lost to heat hot water) then hot water is 8c+25= 33c Sorry if that looks naive
Thanks Allen have really enjoyed your videos and learned a lot. Is it common to have initially very hot water then going luke warm if the Heat Exchanger is block or faulty?
Im relatively new to boilers and I was inspecting a hot water issue today with a eco Tec pro 28 combi boiler. Visually I could see major scale at the cold inlet to the plate heat exchanger. In addition the hot water appeared to be running well until suddenly it stopped coming out the faucet, then continued after about 12 seconds. I'm pretty sure it was the plate but does anyone have any other ideas? Wasn't isolation valves as none existed on the pipework....note: the water did reach requested temperature prior to cutting out. My guess is it's a sedement blockage, but any other suggestions are welcomed. Thanks ppl.
Thanks to Allan and the a lot whoever made the video.this is an amazing video, there no more you need for that particular fault, it is basically a significant help.
I'm assuming the tests in this video apply to all makes/models of Combi Boiler, not just Ideals? Is it also correct that you can check the temperature of the primary circuit flow and return in and out of the PHEX and that a temperature difference of more than 20 degrees indicates a blocked PHEX? I'm sure I've read this somewhere but can't recall where.
At the very end I found the part number ID to be very helpful , sick of wasting time with wrong parts. Unfortunately though he said the part was 121 and this then showed two listed 121 plate heat exchangers. I assume for different kw outputs. But which one would you chose. My supplier is clueless and I have to order exact part numbers. I would love to say get mea plate heat ex for .... But I then would get the wrong part.
It’s in the manufacturers instruction, they state what the boiler is able to deliver (temperature rise) and the maximum flow rate it can give you that rise at
@@daleprosser350 do you mind explainging what that means, in the manual it has: DHW Flow Rate (for C 35) at 35 degree's C temp. rise = 14.5 l/m DHW Specific Rate (for C 35) = 16.9 l/m What is Specific Rate and I am a little baffled with the two Rates. Thanks again mate
Great video yet again from ideal man only thing I would add is he should have tested the cold water flow rate as it could be the cold feed could have only been 10 litres per minute so putting a 35kw boiler in and thinking you would achieve 16 litres , always check water pressure and flow rates on a cold tap before you install a boiler .
I never thought I would achieve 16 litres per minute when I installed my boiler, I put a larger boiler in knowing I would infact get a better delta t, temperature rise because I had a lower water flow rate, I just forgot what my flow rate was when I was making the video and then realised I could not get the 16, it was the reason you saw in the video why I put in.a 35kw so I could get a temp diff way over 35 degrees.
Love this video. This fella showing this test is bang on. In the real world, if you can’t achieve the desired flow rate to carry out the test, you have to use your noggin’ a little more and that is where experience comes in. To the apprentices watching, listen to the old fart that is trying to teach you. We may not be ‘cool’ but the odd few of us know a thing or two. Top effort. 👍
i think that was a compliment? even though you called me an old fart and not cool....?
@@kevincranfield5235 I’m have often been called an old fart and the working day should be 10:00 haha
😂😂😂😂You are both amazing.
When you say if you can't achieve the desired flow rate you are obviously speaking about the secondary side of the plate right. And in this case what would you do?
Fair play to that man for taken the time to educate both me and others a very informative video thank you.
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I always worked on the principle a max of 5c dt it’s ok. Good to know though. I was working on Vaillant parameters.
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Great video 👍😊
Good tip that. 👍🏽
Hi Allen, i have hot water running very slow in all tap in my apt,do you think is cause block exchanger? Many thanks
Most likely
Double check that the water inlet isolation valve hasn't been turned down. The hot water flow usually stays about the same on a blocked plate. As it usually the flow circuit from the main heat exchanger which gets blocked . Check your mains water tap is open fully and follow the cold water feed from the boiler back. Sometimes there's an isolation valve or something similar fitted. This could also reduce the flow to all hot water outlets.
@@rayc1503 the cold water inlet to the plate exchanger could be blocked up with scale if he’s living in that type of area
Great video Alan.
A big thank you to Ideal man.
Next video leak in main heat exchanger 👍😂 please.
Very good video ,
sorry if this question seems silly, On a boiler with a 3 speed pump, Does the speed setting of the pump have any bearing on the heat transfer temperature from the main heat exchanger to the domestic hot water at the plate heat exchanger or will there be no difference what ever the pump speed is
Yes it does..you stick it on 1 on a 3 speed and it will cause you probs
Very good video. Good to share the knowledge. Can't understand why some thumbs down? 👍👍
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Excellent presentation.
Thank you.
So to recap first test between hot and cold and check for 35⁰C temperature rise and stable reading. Then test between hot water outlet and pipe between pump and main heat exchanger, there were 20⁰C difference and there should be zero or close to zero. But when it finally became 0 on third attempt, is it because you cleaned the plate or you put the clamps somewhere else? Thanks advance!
Can anyone help me diagnose my issue - basically turn tap on, might get a little bit of hot for a few seconds (in the PHE?) then cold - then takes ages, a minute maybe of completely cold water, then the hot starts to come through. Once flowing it's fine, stays how, flow rate no problem, runs all day.
I swapped the DHW spinner last year, when you turn on a tap the sensor lights up solid instantly, boiler seems to start.
I removed the diverter valve and stripped it, cleaned it in ultrasonic cleaner, put in new seals, rebuilt it with lashings of silicone grease
Actuator works fine, tap on, tap off it moves in and out and the plunger pushes in no problem in the valve (did before cleaning anyway) - heating outlet not getting hot when waiting for water
PHE off and cleaned with drain cleaner and in ultrasonic, just a bit of rusty crap coming out, no sludge in there and it's a soft water area so no limescale.... Water flows though both sides well from hose pipe.
Again once running hot water is more than adequate, heating works fine
Waiting for a plumber friend to come check gas pressures etc as very rarely do get an ignition failure - can't see it being that as it locks out after 3 failed starts and it's very rare (maybe 1 this year)??? Boiler did have a gas valve about half it's life ago as it had turned into a vuvuzela....
I'm stumped!! Help lol 😄
Thanks Mr Ideal for taking the time.
Hi Allen, thanks for your videos. Always learning something new.
You mentioned that Kevin is sending you lots of in depth videos. Any chance you could put them all in a playlist?
Mr Ideals videos are absolutely brilliant, I also have some other guests on the channel soon. Thanks
If reduce to 10mins, much better.
What do you mean? Thanks.
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Having watched Toms top tips ruclips.net/video/CeVRy_QQDeY/видео.html do I need to bother watching? :p
Edit: Great video. I'm training, so perhaps more useful to me than for others, but some valuable info.
I love to watch Tom,s Videos. I would love to meet him one days.
Thank u for sharing knowledge brilliant video help alot bless ya
This is one of the best video Thank you so much
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Where did you get the 35c from?
Mate how much would you charge to do install training? I’m gas safe, but all my gas is servicing, I want to push into installs and breakdowns but there’s no where for me to actually learn installs properly.
I'm in the same boat as you mate it's tricky. I took a job on installs and was told I would be trained. then when starting someone turned up to "watch me" change a system to combi. made me feel like a right nob then laid me off 2 weeks before Christmas after I'd been honest and told them I wasn't an experienced installer at the interview. I left a well paid job fitting meters for that as well. Awful company
what would happen if you put a 35kw plate on a 24kw ideal combi?
Not a lot really unless you reprogrammed the pcb and changed the injector.
👍👍👍
Good 👌
You’ll only getting 10 litres a min out that tap because it has a restrictor in it. Otherwise that tap would spray out the sink!
That's a bath
Ya know, your probably right and it makes sense when you say that, but it never crossed my mind, I will level with you all, you may think from my videos that I know a lot about our industry but infact I don’t, I have never been a plumber, only a gas engineer, trained by BG, never done any renewables but stuck to my one discipline in the theory I can get really really good at the one subject rather than spread myself too thinly across a broad range of products, and be average at them all, that was my thinking so I really do not know much about plumbing etc. So I will share what I know and hopefully be educated too along the way. 👍
@@kevincranfield5235 fair play to you mate at least you're taking time to try and educate. so few people want to help anyone in this trade who wants to actually learn
You are doing an amazing job educating people with these videos. I really enjoy them and are very grateful. Thank You
What a fantastic video. Never seen the 2nd test, brilliant and thank you
Thank you very much!
Thanks very helpful 👍
Very welcome!
Very informative video of diagnosis. Also especially finding the ideal boiler parts. Cheers for that.
Not sure of its a separate issue but a) lack of hot water via taps . Mostly goes cold ..... kitchen tap (,been fine 3+ years now is the only tap mainly that don't cause boiper to ignite . 9ccasionally it'll stop getting up upstairs bath over head shower (mixer. Both are ) a head ache indeed .
New vaove cartridge here and diverter pump
Thanks 4 your help
Very informative video 👍
Thanks very much for your comment, please consider subscribing to support the channel 🙂
I already am Allen 😉
Great information there guys. What is pre ABK & ABK onwards when it relates to ideal boilers? Any answers people? 👍
It’s the prefix, the 3 letters before the 15 numbers of the serial number. So for instance if you had a prefix which read ABE that’s pre ABK, and onwards would be alphabetic letters after that?!! Does that make sense.
@@kevincranfield5235 excellent understood, thank you. Thanks for the clarification 👍
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 very good
Excellent video Allen, great tips and something to take on board. I have the testo probes myself and use for boiler commissioning..
Can you do a video on balancing radiators using the testo probes... I’ve tied but struggle to get the ideal 11 degree difference between flow and return
Great video and just one quick question:
What I understand is that the heat lost in the primary circuit between flow and return should be gained by hot water side.?
Lets say the primary flow was 75c then return 40c. Then the hot water would be 40c? How is that. Bec i thought the hot water temp = cold water in temp + (diff between primary flow and return)
So lets say cold water is 8 c and the pFlow 75 preturn 50c( meaning a 25c lost to heat hot water) then hot water is 8c+25= 33c
Sorry if that looks naive
Thanks Allen have really enjoyed your videos and learned a lot.
Is it common to have initially very hot water then going luke warm if the Heat Exchanger is block or faulty?
couldn't the diverter valve be letting by not giving the temp rise?
If you listen in the beginning I mention that the diverted valve or stepper paddle could be passing heat down the flow pipe
👍👍👍👍
Im relatively new to boilers and I was inspecting a hot water issue today with a eco Tec pro 28 combi boiler. Visually I could see major scale at the cold inlet to the plate heat exchanger. In addition the hot water appeared to be running well until suddenly it stopped coming out the faucet, then continued after about 12 seconds. I'm pretty sure it was the plate but does anyone have any other ideas? Wasn't isolation valves as none existed on the pipework....note: the water did reach requested temperature prior to cutting out. My guess is it's a sedement blockage, but any other suggestions are welcomed. Thanks ppl.
Thanks to Allan and the a lot whoever made the video.this is an amazing video, there no more you need for that particular fault, it is basically a significant help.
Great video. Very well explained. Top stuff.
Absolutely brilliant video Alan. Tried this today at work.
Thank you
Brilliant video thanks 👍
Thank You.
Another excellent video x
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Very good and helpful thank you Allen
Glad it was helpful!
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I'm assuming the tests in this video apply to all makes/models of Combi Boiler, not just Ideals?
Is it also correct that you can check the temperature of the primary circuit flow and return in and out of the PHEX and that a temperature difference of more than 20 degrees indicates a blocked PHEX? I'm sure I've read this somewhere but can't recall where.
No this is just the logic only due to its design, other designs may vary slightly in temperature depending on where you put your temp clamps.
Good video
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Very knowledgeable....cheers.
Brilliant. Engineer 👌
Excellent info
At the very end I found the part number ID to be very helpful , sick of wasting time with wrong parts. Unfortunately though he said the part was 121 and this then showed two listed 121 plate heat exchangers. I assume for different kw outputs. But which one would you chose. My supplier is clueless and I have to order exact part numbers. I would love to say get mea plate heat ex for ....
But I then would get the wrong part.
177529 - 24kw, 177530 - 30 & 35kw, this is the latest model, on older models this would obviously be a different part no.
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Can anyone recommend good temp clamps that fit Anton analysers? Not sure if any clamps are interchangeable with any analyser???
All you need are the AS10 clamps, think they are about £20 ish, they should for in Anton and Kane analysers. 👍
to fit a Anton the connection is K type connection
Great stuff
Brilliant
👍
Thank You
Hi,
What is the reason of having a hot water coming out only when is on full flow rate and when reduce the flow rate is getting cold?
Regards
Julian
Blocked plate maybe?
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I would think the flow sensor for the hot water may be faulty and the low flow rate may not be registering with the sensor
how did you calculate the cold water temperature rise (the 35 degrees)?
It’s in the manufacturers instruction, they state what the boiler is able to deliver (temperature rise) and the maximum flow rate it can give you that rise at
@@daleprosser350 do you mind explainging what that means, in the manual it has:
DHW Flow Rate (for C 35) at 35 degree's C temp. rise = 14.5 l/m
DHW Specific Rate (for C 35) = 16.9 l/m
What is Specific Rate and I am a little baffled with the two Rates. Thanks again mate
@@frosty_soda to be honest I’m not sure about Specific Rate and why they have the two rates
👍👍👍
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Best video to diagnose plate heat exchanger!well done
Glad it helped
Great video yet again from ideal man only thing I would add is he should have tested the cold water flow rate as it could be the cold feed could have only been 10 litres per minute so putting a 35kw boiler in and thinking you would achieve 16 litres , always check water pressure and flow rates on a cold tap before you install a boiler .
I never thought I would achieve 16 litres per minute when I installed my boiler, I put a larger boiler in knowing I would infact get a better delta t, temperature rise because I had a lower water flow rate, I just forgot what my flow rate was when I was making the video and then realised I could not get the 16, it was the reason you saw in the video why I put in.a 35kw so I could get a temp diff way over 35 degrees.
You Need some editing skills a tripod and a decent microphone if your gonna do these vidz!!