Fun fact: after Jenova depopulates a planet and kills its life stream, the planet “Dies” literally, then she uses that planet as a meteor to crash into the next planet, wounding it and starting the process over. At least, that’s what she does in OG FF7.
@@scarvello fundamentaly no, they only made minor changes to the story to the extent that it's more of a soft reboot than a remake. My two main issues with the new game are that the honey bee Inn arc is completely different, and all the damn padding, with an obscene number of side quests and unnecessary add ons, and people say "oh it adds to Midgard" no...... no it doesn't.....it makes 1/4 of a 68 hour game into a 68 hour game and let's square Enix charge you 4 times for less content. It's fucking price gouging is what it is.
@@MrRaizada well, it's a jrpg, so you play it to experience the story. The new battle mechanics and graphics are nice sure. But you'll have just as much, if not more fun telling the story to a group of friends at a bonfire. Old fans like me play for the updated graphics of one of our favorite games. I was just pissed off at the ridiculous side quests to obtain items that were freely given before. If you ignore them and focus on the main story the game is about 14 hours long. It's that short, because it's only part of the first disc from the original. That's 14 hours, of a 60+ hour game. That's called padding. My only other gripe is that they completely changed the honey bee inn arc into some ridiculous dance number That's completely off theme for the game and the arc.
Probably square's plan cause jenova is a grotesque alien being that they likely wanted to show that now with the better graphic tech they had and yeah they did a good job
One of the best things about FF7R was the music during The Drum level, where Jenova is held, along with all the pods at the bottom. Extremely unsettling atmosphere, very alien, and very unique compared to the rest of the game prior. Showed that there was more to the game's universe than a corporation vs rebels conflict.
Yeah, they basically made Jenova look like a mix between the Venom Symbiote and the grotesque monsters from the various Resident Evil viruses, which fits perfectly lol
This is the best, most informative, comprehensive and well narrated video i've ever seen about this topic. Having played both FFVII and Crisis Core a few times, Jenova's relevance to the plot was still somewhat fuzzy to me until now Excellent work, congrats to everyone involved with this channel
If there's ANYTHING I want more, is to have Cloud and Vincent in my party to fuck up Hojo in the remake. A more painful and permanent death. None of that Weiss stuff.
Been saying this for years. Then sephs madness allowed him to overcome its "will" controlling its cells as he pleases. Thus manifesting himself through the weak willed tattoo experiments for reunion and Kadaj etc. His ability to mentally attack others who were infected etc
@@larinkross9957 It also helps that in his madness, Sephiroth decided to more or less follow Jenova's example. He even said in Advent Children he would use Geostigma to use the planet as his vessel to travel the stars "just as my Mother did long ago." Jenova is very much a cosmic Virus. Just as viruses infect healthy cells to fundamentally alter the cells' DNA to produce more viruses and Spread, Jenova invaded a healthy planet in order to take advantage of its Livestream and expand across the universe. Sephiroth had a strong enough Will to seize control and retain his individual identity, but he still wanted to carry out his "Mother's" Will. A voluntary host of sorts, or at least an obedient one.
@@taqresu5865 true that's why I feel 50/50 is jenova really riding back seat cause Sephy is a willing host or did he subsume it. I say it cause despite being female in appearance we know jenova can be whatever it wants. Also by subsume I mean did he really repressed jenovas will. Because we do never see Jenova act of its own accord. It always seems to be reactionary to either a threat or sephys orders. But that still leaves it open to willfully riding shotgun, for now.
I could tell that Jenova has some heavy influences from “The Thing” given it’s ability to shape-shift, turn people into monsters and deceive people with imitations.
When i played this game when i was like 13 i had no idea of the underlying story, that the cells were the things motivating cloud, that sephiroth was actually dead or in the crater reassembling himself, until i read the lore a few years ago. Wish i had this video 2 decades ago, story would have made a lot more sense.
Won't lie. FF7's plot became a hot mess after disc 1. Videos like this should not be needed. But they are amazing to have as now the plot an make much more sense. I slightly disagree with the interpretation of Jenova being subservient to Sephiroth. It seemed more like it willingly aided Sephiroth because his plan was literally what Jenova originally intended. "Destruction". Especially since Sephiroth wanted to carry out his "mother's" (Jenova) will.
@@RemnantSoul I don't know, I think the plot holds up pretty well. It just requires a lot of backstory and understanding to put it all together. Ultimately, I think Sephiroth was in control over Jenova, but I do like your idea that Jenova went in willingly since they had some shared goals.
@@Fogdiver69 As I got older and replayed it (also I've managed to dodge the Nostalgia bullet that many fans have for it. Not accusing you. Just stating that for some fans the game can do no wrong.) I essentially came to understand the plot better. But also have come to dislike how crazy and convoluted it got. The plot started as a simple: Resistance vs Evil Corporation. (Obviously this would evolve.) Shifted to: Bio-experiments from Evil Corporation created a psychopathic super soldier and awoke an ancient threat. (Fair enough. Decent fantasy plot.) Then starts to muddy with... Clones/puppets of said super soldier that aren't actually said soldier but alien copies of said soldier because of cells infused into people. Thus creating weird bio-hybrid alien-humans who change shape and form. (Ok...sci-fi...ish...but the whole puppet thing really feels unnecessary.) To... Planet is Sentient and has now released hostile weapons in order to protect itself from the forces of the alien and super soldier. Said weapons seem to be aggressive to everything though so...uh... Anyways... Planet also uses the afterlife/lifeforce of all things dead and alive (Bare with me...the lifestream is sorta that) as a weapon to save itself. But somehow absorbing that alien and soldier into itself in the wake. The character development of the game impo is absolutely phenomenal. For me its how crazy and convoluted the plot gets that kills it for me. FF8 was one of my favorites but the whole "time twister" part also killed alot of my enthusiasm for the narrative of that game. It just sort of jumped the shark once people started getting possessed from the future, and folks who should be dead weren't dead, because "time" changes, people who could see the past and send folks into it...etc. Like 7 it just hit a point where I was like. "Why? Why is this even needed?" Oof...I hope some of that made sense. I have confused myself trying to explain it now...
@@RemnantSoul It's funny you mention FF8 because I'm in the middle of playing it through with my son right now. We just got to the part after Disc 2 ends, where you find out Edea has been controlled by Ultimecia the whole time. I love the game and all, but it takes the convoluted storyline aspect of 7 and puts it on steroids. Though, I can actually rationalize and somewhat understand the whole causal loop/time paradox, etc. What really gets on my nerves is the whole wE aLl HaD AmNeSiA! subplot. I still don't understand why that needed to be a thing. It would maybe have been enough if Squall and Rinoa had both been raised by Edea, since they were young it wouldn't be too unreasonable for them to forget or not recognize each other, especially if they were just 2 of multiple children. But every one of them, and Irvine didn't even forget but just didn't mention it? Lame, for sure.
Fun Fact again: Jenova Synthesis is Jenovas true form that attacked the Cetra all those years ago. That’s why she looks different than all the other forms.
@@猜猜我是谁-q1x depends on what exactly youre speaking of, are u talking about the Makonoid? Or Jenova's body in the container behind the mechanical representation?
@@xxreyoxx yeah I am talking about that one the one that sephiroth said “we have finally met, mother” and then zack said“Sephiroth have you completely lost your mind？”
Really makes you wonder if there's more of her kind out there and where. Not only that, but WHY did Jenova crash on Gaia and for what purpose? Have other worlds been attacked by this and possibly other creatures of her same ilk as well...?
Possibly in fact sephiroth says in advent children this line. " I shall use this planet to sail the cosmos just like my mother did long ago". Implying that jenova used a part of another planet to end up on gaia and repeat the process but Shiva and the cetra stopped him mainly Shiva as learned in remake that Shiva was the one who sealed Jenova away
this is why Jenova is pretty Lovecraft-ish as a villain. We may never know Jenova's motivations and how many crazy beings are out there. But She/It was able to wrestle even the planet itself and influence its living things, which is horrifying when you consider the power levels beyond our own earth out there.
The why could very well just be an interstellar parasite. She exists by corrupting and consuming. If anything this just underlies how strong Sephiroth is to take a strong parasite and weaponize it for himself whereas many Cetra had been tricked or overpowered by her
Great video. Just one theory though. We don't know who actually won the battle of wills between Jenova and Sephiroth. Since so much of Jenova was put in Sephiroth as a fetus, he is pretty much her child too. And for all we know, Jenova won the battle of wills and is using Sephiroth's body now as it is much stronger than her own body. Notice how quickly during the Nibelheim incident that Sephiroth changes (when he gets close to Jenova) and all of a sudden all of his goals now become Jenova's goals. He wants everything Jenova wants. And for the rest of the game, even after his body is found in the crater, everything he does is in service to what Jenova really wants. Jenova is a master of disguise and manipulation. Just before Cloud and Tifa get to the crater, Jenova (in Sephiroth's form) convinces Cloud that he's just a clone, and not even real (a lie but he believes it). Also casts major doubt on Tifa to question her own reality and memories. Jenova killed Aerith. Jenova (again using Sephiroth's form) is in the temple of the ancients manipulating Cloud to give her the black materia. Think about this, every major event that happens in the game (except for the flashback, just before nibelheim incident), it is actually Jenova doing it. All the iconic things Sephiroth does, was actually Jenova doing it in Sephiroth's form. If Jenova is powerful enough to trick the Cetra and make herself look like them, manipulate them and wipe out most of them; I think she's more than capable of beating Sephiroth in a battle of wills. Especially when her own cells are inside of him. Look how easily she manipulated and controlled Cloud, and he has less of her DNA in him. I think it's fully plausible that Jenova is fully controlling Sephiroth. And also possible in the final battle that the "Jenova" you fight is just a piece of her or a shadow of herself, and extension just like the other pieces of her that are falling off through the game, that you fight. I think her body is deteriorating, and it is possible she now put her own consciousness into Sephiroth's body so she has a physical host. The other theory is that both Sephiroth and Jenova's goals are exactly the same and they are both willing participants and that their wills join forces and combine, creating a whole new entity filled with both of them.
actually, after reading the first part of jenova winning over sephiroth in nibelheim.... this could explain why cloud was able to all of a sudden over power sephiroth and throw him into the lifestream( sephiroth was way stronger than cloud at this moment) but rather Jenova allowed it as it wanted to enter the lifestream
I like this explanation. I think what happened is that Sephiroth didn't exactly go mad when he discovered the truth, he simply had a mental breakdown and that allowed Jenova to take over his mind completely. From that point in Jenova was in control of all it's parts and the people hosting it's cells.
@@salsamancerI think it's better to look at it indirectly, moreso through Jenova guiding Sephiroth to have his mental state crumble at the realization that he was the same as the "monsters" from Soldier he was sent to kill and Jenova taking advantage of that to persuade him to do her bidding... Much moreso than Jenova actually taking possession of Sephiroth's will and actually controlling and dictating his actions.
If you look at the mural in the temple of the ancients, it seems like the ancients were the ones to summon meteor. You can see people burning in the image, so maybe they used it to attack another group. I always thought it would have been interesting if that was the case and Jenova rode in on that very meteor.
I’m curious why you’re so sure that Sephiroth is commanding Jenova? I always thought the whole point of the story was to make you think he was the big bad, but actually looking deeper and realising a horrific eldritch space horror was controlling him through her cells…
Exactly !!!!! Take a look at the most recent trailer for First Soldier Part 2..... it's obviously Sephiroth being controlled by Jenova or he wouldn't have the head grab which is signature of Jenova control due to Cellullar Degradation .... video to come
I think he comes from the perspective that it was always Sephiroth's prerogative to decide what he would with the information he was given regarding the circumstances with his birth... Extremely similarly, Mewtwo from Mewtwo Strikes Back also becomes evil after learning he was a science experiment. Granted, there's no Jenova there to persuade Mewtwo but Sephiroth did, very willingly and voluntarily, allow Jenova's will to become his own. It's for that reason that he wantonly uses his own mother's limbs as weapons, I doubt Jenova would think too highly of that
@@ChrrolloDI I mean..... you could use Mews influence on Mewtwo...... since they added the new line in the Strikes Back " I cannot forget the world where a certain someone flew away from me" ... which would be exactly what I am stating now.."In Evercrisis sephiroth says the line " I just want to be a nomal human"... while talking to Glenn forshadowing ...and also in the later FIrst Soldier depiction Hojo is lit by the Same Purple Hue of Jenova....AND we see Sephiroth remember his conversation with Glenn" that he can do better and that Glenn believes in him".... Sephiroth is no longer the mastermind... he is a fallen soldier who was experimented on by Hojo who will come back to the good side once he is told the truth about his birth.... we have already fought him twice in both games... and his final form from OG..... the Temple of Ancients dialogue reveals way more then you are accepting because.... maybe an FFVII purist? who knows.... We just fought final form Sephiroth in Rebirth... so who is the big bad now hahaha Answer... JENOVA
@@FungiFilmReviews Yes, he did come to that conclusion of wanting to be "normal" because he was more or less aware of his result being an experiment like the monsters he foughtz although that is a deconstruction of logic considering the fact that, again as Mewtwo realized, the circumstances of your birth don't decide who you are, yet Sephiroth still decided to give in to despair and madness, by his own will. If Jenova was truly in control, then Sephiroth should have known who she was from the start seeing as Jenova would clearly recognize herself, not to mention the only reason Sephiroth was curious about Jenova to begin with was because of his vague understanding of his relationship with her, not because Jenova had begun to influence Sephiroth then and there. Him coming to the good side after being told the truth literally makes no sense... Jenova already showed everything to him and he was still evil. At first, he wanted to promote the existence of the Cetra before learning that Jenova hunted the Cetra. Then, after knowing that Jenova was a monster who revaged the Earth, including the Cetra, he STILL wanted to end life on Earth and become a God. You could argue Jenova influenced Sephiroth, which of course she did because of all the information and revelations she gave to him, but by no means did she actually control Sephiroth and possess his mind as some people think. He did what he did regardless of his circumstances. Not to mention, Advent Children has nearly nothing to do with Jenova as far as Sephiroth is concerned. At that point, he's mostly hellbent on his own resurrection and dominance over the world.
@@ChrrolloDI Also hahaha How are you going to leave out the issues with this argument... Mewtwo is cloned through Mew's DNA.... Sephiroth is conceived through Jenova DNA.... Mewtwo cannot defeat Mew... Sephiroth cannot defeat Jenova.... Mewtwo comes to the realization that eventhough he is a clone he still has meaning... Sephiroth will come to the conclusion that even though he is a clone he still has meaning... haha there thats the most simple rebuttle versus anything else hahaha "I see now that the circumstances of ones birth are irrelevant. It is what you DO with the gift of LIFE that determines WHO YOU ARE" - Mewtwo final scene after ash depetrifies hahaha..... poor example for ya ...
Alot of players never got that meaning and that's fine. I believed that for a while too but after playing the original game 5 or more times it clicked that sephiroth was using jenova.
@@jeremybrandt5779 That's right, after Nibelheim Sephiroth was likely killed or crippled and trapped within the life stream, his body was all that Jenova needed, after all he has perfected Jenova's cells wich cannot degrade or die and the greatest power of all soldier, yet the real villain was Jenova all along. That plot device that he somehow overtook Jenova's mind control due to him being stronger doesn't make any sense, there is no evidence of him having any kind of psychic power or resiliance prior to the awakening of the Jenova's cells in his blood, wich are Jenova itself. If he had a stronger will like they presume then he wouldn't have fallen to Jenova's influence that easy to begin with, because we know that after he learns the truth of his origins it gets all down hill straight to madness, there was no resistance or hesitation. This statement is nothing but a convenient attempt to elevate Sephiroth's fanboysm further. Furthermore Jenova came from the word Jehoba who is believed to be God who came to Earth and Sephiroth is a word that means messanger or God's manifestation in hebrew i think, so there you have it.
@@Bluedude08 makes sense cause sephiroth was always a good guy, it was only after he learned of his birth, so pretty much all the "bad" sephiroth who wants to destroy the world and somehow always returns is Jenova using his body and soul, cause that was Jenovas plan all along to destroy the planet, this is why "sephiroth" can influence cloud is actually Jenova using cloud jenova cells to manipulate him, cause is weird how sephiroth somehow has become immortal? that's jenova disguising as sephiroth
All of Jenova's cells couldn't be gathered together, because some still live inside the frozen Lucrecia, which is why she was frozen in the first place so that she wouldn't become a monster.
Perfect timing. My playthrough of FF7RI reignited my curiosity about Jenova. Have also really been enjoying your guys podcast at work. Thanks for the great content.
I always wondered why we never got a scene or scenario where the weapons try to attack sephiroth or the northern crater. Sephiroth was always a bigger threat than shinra
I always thought of it this way: the weapons were always doomed to fail as a threat to Jenova. The Cetra realized this as Jenova was cunning as opposed to just massively strong (even though they probably didn't know the depth of Jenova's distributed consciousness). And, as they were primal mega-creatures made by the planet itself, as a reaction to the devastation caused by the meteor that Jenova rode in on, it could have been a reason why the Cetra settled for sealing Jenova instead of letting the conflict drag on and allowing the weapons become a problem (either as a third party in the war that viewed them all as a threats, an ineffective ally of the Cetra due to the nature of the enemy, or even infiltrated and used by Jenova at worst). The Cetra are portrayed as being a wise people, above all other attributes. So I think they understood that raw power was a poor strategy when dealing with a deceptive entity. And that is the lead up to why I don't think that was ever in the cards. Jenova, and by extension Sephiroth, can deceive something that isn't smart enough to realize it's the problem. And I feel like the weapons fall into that category. They know there IS a threat because the black materia summoned meteor, but in the absence of a clear enemy to fight-since the crater was practically impenetrable, and there's an argument that it concealed Sephiroth-they turned to either patrolling for that enemy or attacking large concentrations of humans.
@@gogauze I was always under the impression they were attacking the things that were sucking up all the planet's energy. That's why they were attacking Midgar and the Port Town (forget the name) with the cannon. They were created to stop a Planet Ending threat, and Shinra sucking up all that energy deemed them that threat upon waking up.
Both are of unknown origin, both hit the planet like a meteorite subsequently wiping out a dominant species, both are extraterrestrials. Yeah, there’s a similarity there for sure.
not related to Square, but I found the best way to visualize... or think of it, was the Naruto series and the Ōtsutsuki, with a splash of Yggdrasil is actually more like a mushroom infestation, or a tree growing out of a book, eating a world..but ohh, so this was what people meant by Chrono Trigger connections
With the direction they took the remake I could only see them trying to make the origins to support the bat shit ideas they tried to shoehorn into the narrative.
Proper though not changing everything or make it seperate I hate when they go away like the resident evil movies the Aninated version from Japans better
Love FF7!👍♥️👍♥️👍♥️ As far as I'm concerned, Square needs to bring all the major characters back including Sephiroth, Zack, Vincent Rufas, Aerith, Genesis and Kadaj! I don't play the game, but I watch the movies, purchase the movies and love watching all the shorts on RUclips and story lines about ff7. ❤️♥️👍 I would love to see Sephiroth and Kadaj turn good, team together and fight other forces. Would love Square to make a major motion picture that comes on HBO, like they have done in the past with other FF movies, except they need to introduce the public to these awesome FF7 characters. Vincent is so handsome and mysterious, love the way his Red clothing moves around as if it has a life of its own!Zack needs to stay alive and definitely not die, and would like to see his relationship develop with Aerith and friendship with Cloud. Zack can come close to death, but get better and continue on in these videos and movies. Just love this character and his relationship and close friendship with cloud. This group should become almost like the marvel avengers, group together, and become heroes!👍♥️👍♥️👍♥️👍♥️
I loved Final Fantasy 7 and Crisis Core, but the relationship between her and Sephiroth was always very confusing to me. I didn't even realize I was missing so many details. This video cleared it up a lot for me.
I think it's a mistake to say Sephiroth won out over Jenova. Much of FF7 revolves around how we understand our own identities. Not only Cloud struggles with who they are and who they can be. Sephiroth makes for an successful antagonist by the end because he no longer has a singular identity. Narratively speaking his goals are the same as Jenova. To consume the power of the life stream and move on to the next planet. I argue that Reunion didn't begin when Sephiroth fell in to the life stream. It began when he became aware of his true nature in the mansion basement. It's only then that Sephiroth starts to exhibit a singular purpose bordering on madness. The same drive that forced Cloud to chase Sephiroth around the world. But unlike our blond pin cushion protagonist. Sephiroth dosen't fight that calling. Knowingly or otherwise, he embraces it. Janova is a shapeshifter and master manipulator. It may not even have the same sense of self that humans hold dear. So I ask you. If Sephiroth want's what Jenova wants. If he's made of Jenova cells and uses Jenova cells in other's to progress his designs. Is he narratively distinct from Jenova? Or has his identiy and that of Jenova fused in to something indistinguishable from a single person? Was Jenova subservient to Sephiroth when it tried to stop Cloud at the expense of it's own life at the end of the game? Or is what we saw more akin to the hands rising up to protect the head from attack.
I think one underrated aspect of Jenova is that essentially she (or it) is a parasite. Initially, on a planetary scale, travelling from world to world sucking them dry. There's a lack of evidence as to how she did this previously, but as you've pointed out, if Sephiroth achieved his goal at the end of FF7, it would result in Jenova's goal. Many parasites have the ability to manipulate or control their hosts in some way, and Jenova acting on a larger scale infects the "cells" of the planet (living organisms, like humans). Interestingly, Ilfana mentions the use of viral warfare, and like parasites, viruses can also manipulate the behaviour of their hosts (like Rabies). So I completely agree with the idea that Jenova's consciousness and will are not perceptible in the same sense as humans see it. And personally, I will always lean towards Jenova being the real antagonist intelligent enough to manipulate Sephiroth in the most apt way, without him even being aware of it.
@@Molotov_Milkshake The "They" in that sentence is meant to convey the rest of the team including Cloud. Unless you were joking. I hope you're joking anyway.
After seeing the Ancients Flash back in Remake, I really hope we to see a flashback of the Cetra fighting and sealing away Jenova. Sephirtoh was always the villain but....honestly he too was a victim. But Jenova was always the REAL threat, An wanted to destroy the planet. Also Jenova was always Sephiroths motivator, he wanted to destroy the planet or become a God like her. An truly believed that was his destiny. But we know so little of Jenova, an it would be cool if she actually returned. In her real form, instead of just possessing people or trying to control people. But the real her, an Cloud and the gang, trying to stop her for good. As much as I loved FF7 story, I always didn’t like how we didn’t get enough Jenova. Like why did she return to earth...did she plan to come back one day. Or would she if it weren’t for Cloud and the gang defeating Sephiroth. But instead Sephiroth was just always the main focus villain. Hopefully we see her in the sequels of remake story.
Why she go to earth* You put return for some reason, i theorized like many others that Jenova was a weapon from another planet why she went to earth who knows
@@tonyinfinite5174 Nope....You read correctly I meant what I said *returned* as in her returning in the flesh. In the present time. As a villain. She arrived thousands of years ago and was sealed away and Shinra found her and created pretty much Super Soliders of her DNA, She IS in the main story however....it’s just her dead body, and pieces that turn into monsters, or her possessing people or manipulating them, or even under her influence. But for her to *return* to the present and being a villain besides Sephiroth that would be interesting. Then we could possibly hear her motives on why she arrived on Gaia in the first place.
@@TheKira708 Shit well if we take FF10 into account here me out, it's speculated that humans are from Sphyra from FF10 how they got to earth was likely do to Omega since him and Chaos aren't present during the Jenova vs Cetra wars
@@tonyinfinite5174 It’s possible but, I don’t think will connect them. Since each game is its own Fantasy. Also it wouldn’t exactly explain why and Jenova go there as well as why did she kill all the Cetra and wannted to take over the planet etc. But hopefully we find out.
I believe the female form we see is essentially a Cetra hero that contained Jenova within herself as a self sacrifice last ditch effort to deal with the calamity. This would explain why Gast was fooled into believing Jenova was a Cetra, as well as why Sephiroth is able to manipulate the lifestream, something only the Cetra should be able to do. He can do this because the Jenova cells are impure, containing cells of the Cetra who imprisoned Jenova.
Jenova can manipulate the life stream because she/it is a planetary predator that goes around the universe consuming planets, it had probably consumed many other life streams... Don't forget that in ff7 the life stream is in fact a physical location for the afterlife, all the dead go there. The same energy Shinra uses to make electricity is just food for Jenova.
@@mikelfc2010 I do agree but like OP I can also agree that the person they call Jenova to not be the alien but a sacrifice made by the Cetra to contain the alien.
My fellow FF7 appreciator, you did an excellent job on summarizing "Mother's" backstory. It took me some years in the fandom to find all those facts, but your narration was the perfect review I needed to continue a fanfiction about her re-rise as an individual. Also I liked how you made clear for us that in the end, Sephiroth was the one in control, in antithesis with the relationships the other ff villains showed with their respective source of outer evil.
The things that I find most fascinating about the story of Final Fantasy VII, particularly the antagonists, is firstly, Jenova becomes a lot more horrifying when you read and understand some of Lovecraft's works and the concept of Eldritch horrors. Jenova could easily be an entity from Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythos and a lot of fans of this game and the 1982 movie "The Thing" have noted that there are some stark similarities between the titular monster/alien in the movie and Jenova. Particularly that both assimilated others and took their forms to sew mistrust and paranoia. The second thing that fascinates me is the incredibly tragic story of Sephiroth. Most people who knew him maintained that, before the Nibelheim incident, he was a heroic and inspirational leader. He's very much surrounded in myth within the FFVII lore. When he and the other ShinRa personnel for to Nibelheim, before Cloud even asks, Sephiroth gives him permission to visit his friends and family. Likewise, in Crisis Core, he's shown to care very much for his subordinates. When Angeal clones are reported in Midgar, Sephiroth takes immediate notice of Zack's concern for Aerith and simply says "Permission to go to Midgar is granted." I'm also not sure if this was taken into consideration as well, but it's certainly a fascinating coincidence at the very least, but Sephiroth's English voice actor for Advent Children, Crisis Core, etc. also did the voice for Superman in numerous animated adaptations. Sephiroth was, by all accounts, a kind and noble figure. I always interpreted his turn as a villain as a descent into madness. Perhaps the realization of the experiments that birthed him drove him mad, maybe he became power hungry. What I used to believe, thanks to the localization errors and confusion, is that Jenova took over Sephiroth after his defeat at Nibelheim. The revelation that Sephiroth is actually the one in full control is shocking. His disposition has changed completely and, rather than continuing on as a heroic figure after learning to exert his will over Jenova, he's fully on board with her plans.
Sephiroth always felt he was different from others and that he was special not to mention being a living legend who is praised and loved by all,sephiroth really bought in to his own hype when you think about it.
The interpretation I got back then was that Sephiroth merged with the Jenova remains while on the stream, becoming a new entity that got the characteristics of both, with Seph being the "front", face and memories and the alien the "back" as in desire and instinct of it.
Its cuz seph has a hyper high spirit. I realized when i saw he has a ring that greatly raises spirit how important the basic will to fight is possibly sephs highest importance. Seen many times strangely from artificial beings in games/film.
In my headcanon I always believed that Jenova and Sephiroth fused together. There was no real battle of wills they just wanted the same thing, and Jenova saw the opportunity that Sephiroth presented by having a really powerful physical form.
I have the impression that the process of his birth created a sort of layer of humanity over the alien entity. Sephiroth isn't exactly separate, he just had an independent identity until the division was broken
Jenova is one of the main reasons why this is my favorite FF. I love the fact that the main villain isn’t actually the main villain. Sephiroth isn’t really the main baddie, it’s Jenova. Everything that happens in the story is because of Jenova. And they left it as such a mystery character you can only kind of understand what she is but never entirely. Almost makes you feel sorry for Sephiroth because she was manipulating him just as much as she was Cloud. And even Hojo is just as much to blame as anyone. He played his part willingly without any manipulation. Sephiroth might be the final boss and technically the big bad, but in the end Sephiroth was just Jenova’s weapon.
The Cetra didn’t “Die out” the Cetra had peace for so long that they didn’t use their powers anymore and simply forgot about them and effectively became humans
not entirely correct. The Cetra originally were travellers, traveling around the world in order to find their "promised land". But a lot of Cetra gave up and just settled at random spots. Those Cetra would be the ancestors of the common people in the world. The remaining Cetra traveled to where Jenova (an alien with illusion powers) crashlanded, and Jenova pretended to be a Cetra, only to them battle them and ultimately die, with a majority of the Cetra being annihilated.
i seem to remember... when playing the original FF7, i found an abandoned laboratory, and some recordings of Aerith's Mother talking to an ex-Shinra scientist, and she said that Jenova pretended to be friendly, but gave the Ancients a VIrus that turned them into monsters! but they managed to chop Jenova into pieces and scatter the pieces all over the planet before they succumbed.
@@ericb3157 Thats the recordings of Professor Gast, which you find in the Icicle Inn city. Professor Gast was a researcher doing research on the Ancients, Weapon, and came up with the Jenova Theory, which Hojo later stole after he had Gast executed (and Ifalna shot, but she escaped). I dont know where you read the stuff on the virus and such. It sounds like either a bad fanfiction or something from Dirge of Cerberus.
Could not have clicked on a video quicker 😂 But yeah fantastic video again guys! Very informative and put a new perspective on Jenovas role and how that role married up with the other antagonists within the series!!
In remake it was Shiva who sealed Jenova away not kidding, so when you play the original just remember when you get Shiva that she was the one who imprisoned jenova
3 года назад+1
Considering it’s the first remake..... and the game was made 20 years ago....... and they’re obviously changing shit already...... that’s like saying they’re upgrading the graphics
Been playing the OG game almost once a year since 97, played through every EU game at least once, yadda yadda - you still gave me some clarity about some standing questions especially surrounding Jenova appearing as Sephiroth during OG, and how sephiroth survived falling in the lifestream during the incident and surviving until you find his body at north crater
So I took it upon myself to find the exact pages within the Ultimania Omega that pinpoint this topic and have found some very interesting information that actually states that both Sephiroth and Jenova are involved together, but there’s a big asterix on the “both” and “Jenova” parts to this. There are actually pages dedicated completely to parsing which specific Sephiroth sightings are Sephiroth or Jenova (pg. 212), but again, there’s still a caveat to the latter. I had a hard time translating that particular page, but I believe my simple layout in the next two paragraphs states it accurately. Beginning with Sephiroth, anything and everything to do with Cloud and the Sephiroth clones who had Jenova cells injected into them (the black cloaked people who were mentally broken from the Nibelheim fire and experimentally tested upon by Hojo) are being controlled by Sephiroth. That’s confirmed clearly on pg. 211 on a picture excerpt, the second from the bottom. The exact quote states: “Reunion is an ability as a Jenova (part/cell), but orders to Sephiroth Copies are for (from) Sephiroth as their master.” (Direct translation, but anything in parentheses here is actually what I believe the imperfect translation is saying. I don’t think any of my additions are stretches, merely clarifications that make it easier to read). The other part to it is Jenova, more specifically her body parts (throughout the game, not including the one names SYNTHESIS at the end) which as I stated before, are confirmed to be acting purely on the impulse of mimicking Sephiroth’s will instinctively, even if there was a time thousands of years ago where she was alive and aware of the use of her abilities to shapeshift, deceive, close proximity, and infect. So during FF7 proper she’s not conscious of this, and also Sephiroth is not directly controlling her, but she is still carrying out his will instinctively because she’s instinctively mimicking is personality, memories, desires, and thus his will. She is simply a husk of her former self, the same way the Cetra are also not conscious anymore, but expressed now through the judgement of the planet. So instead of being more of a puppet being controlled by Sephiroth, she’s really more of a minion, albeit one for a super being who is congruent with her instinctive purpose. This is also clearly confirmed on pg. 211, on the second large paragraph of the page: “Once upon a time (said in this way as to insinuate not anymore), Jenova used this ability to get close to the Ancients and plant a virus in them, causing them to die.” Continuing in that very same paragraph, again on pg. 211, it’s even confirmed that Cloud’s cool demeanor during the beginning of the game is actually not him at all OR even a front, but the Jenova cells within him instinctively copying Tifa’s memory of Cloud whenever they met just before the start OG FF7 before Cloud agreed to help Avalanche, where he started acting very funny and unstable until he meets Tifa. Tifa elaborates on this before they really delve deep into Cloud’s subconscious in the lifestream if my memory serves me well. The quote on that page states: “Not only Jenova itself, but also those who possess the cell have the ability to speak (not sure exactly what this is supposed to mean exactly), albeit imperfectly. Just before the start of the story, Cloud, who had a mental breakdown, returned to a seemingly normal state as soon as he met Tifa. By Jenova’s ability within him, because Jenova’s cells read Cloud in Tifa’s memory and Cloud's ideal image, it formed a new personality” (which is the personality Cloud is expressing in the start of the OG FF7). It’s confirmed again on pg. 213, where the quote states: “Cloud, perhaps because he was weaker than ordinary people both mentally and physically, could not become a SOLDIER and could not even maintain himself as a Sephiroth copy like the other residents of Nibelheim, and his spirit completely collapsed. After reuniting with his childhood friend Tifa in Midgar, he was supported by a false personality that was neither a copy of himself nor his original self.” These examples are here to show how Jenova(‘s remains) can have her (their, in relation to her remains) abilities instinctively (also to say unconsciously) work in other aspects even outside of the Jenova/Sephiroth original debate. So while both Sephy and Jenova are involved and shown in Sephiroth’s image, sometimes it’s Sephy actually taking control (like the cases of Cloud and those in black cloaks) and sometimes it’s an instinctive Jenova part, which instinctually mimics the shape, memories, and will of Sephiroth, again more like a minion, as Sephiroth isn’t actually directly controlling her 3 main parts, but she is robotically going through the motions of doing what she does as a mimic, and she has most likely instinctively mimicked what would most closely serve her instinctive purpose of destroying a planet and moving on to the next one to do the same. Sephy probably learns of Aeris’ death on his own, as she went back to the lifestream he was inhabiting when she passed (maybe Sephiroth also has some way of learning what parts of his will are carried out by her parts somehow as well? Not sure and can’t speak to it atm, but just a thought that came to my mind along this logical path of thought). Something else that speaks to Sephiroth and his power is stated on pg. 213 regarding why some like Cloud get overcome, some like Zack don’t, but again mainly why Sephy has his power: “The case of Sephiroth is extremely special. Until he learned the secret of his birth, he lived as a human despite his legendary strength, and five years ago he began to walk a different path from humans. However, instead of being placed under Jenova's control, he seizes Jenova's initiative and controls their actions. This fact makes us feel the extraordinary strength of the life form Sephiroth.” It’s also stated within the book that Sephiroth does officially die in Nibelheim 5 years ago (around the same pages mentioned already but if you want a specific passage I’d gladly go back in and find it), showing within FF7 proper itself how the great mechanic of the lifestream that speaks to the beautiful theme of life that the game is conveying is also what allows Sephiroth to be this Lovecraftian type fear and entity, one who does not die or completely cease, always looming, who can actually come back to the surface through the means of a weak/broken mind (or possibly even a willing participant). Please let me know if you would like pdfs of these pages as well in case you would like to copy and paste them into translation programs to see it for yourself. Pdfs of the Ultimania Omega can also be found on google, as well as more translations about these topics and many other pages of support from the Ultimania Omega on gamefaqs.com (can also provide that to you as well). I’d also love to hear your opinion on all this as well. Let me know if you have anything you’d like to share.
I got so confused when Angeal and Genesis started rapidly degenerating out of nowhere during Crisis Core. I never made it far into FF7 as a kid and playing Crisis Core as a teen I was really lost at a lot of different points. This explains a lot for me. Regardless of what I missed on plot when younger, the emotional attachment was always strong.
I still tend to prefer my own head Cannon wherein Jenova slowly turned Sephiroth into what he became. I like the idea of some insane Lovecraftian monster changing someone by merely being.
I loved how in Remake they basically showed us that the Ancients were the pre-FF7 Amano type of characters. What if 4 is the past of 7 (Cecil and Kain and Rosa and all them are Cetra) and Jenova is a Lunarian? Perhaps a descendant of Zemus? I see a connection in those two universes. Maybe it’s the extraterrestrial thing?
The best cutscene in FF7 Original is when the Weapons awake seeing Diamond climb up the cliff, and look up to Ultima where he is screaming with the Highwind next to it. And then the crater explodes a d Ruby and Sapphire fly out as well
Ever since FF7R implied that Shiva was the one to seal Jenova in ice, it's now my headcanon that Jenova's female torso and head is a mimicry of Shiva herself. They look quite alike, don't they? And yes yes, I'm sure there is some other official explanation like Jenova is meant to resemble Sephiroth or Aerith. I just thought it would be a decent explanation for Jenova's feminine appearance.
Great video as usual, guys! I seriously wouldn't know 1/4 of the actual story of FFVII if not for you guys and these origins videos. These continue to renew my interest in the games I already love.
It's not too dissimilar from The Thing. Except that Jenova is able to maintain control over its constituent parts, whereas the Thing will split into separate instance with no shared consciousness (or so I assume, given that each piece of the Thing acts individually, hence how they were able to do the blood test in the movie).
It's kinda of crazy that, not counting flashbacks, you don't see the real sephiroth until you give him the black materia in the northern crater, and then you don't fight him until the final boss fight of the game.
@@TheKnizzine a woman named Lucrecia Crescent...she's was a scientist who agreed to marry Hojo and willingly allowed her unborn baby--Sephiroth--to be experimented on.
Thanks for the vid guys, it's nice to re-learn the lore, especially when Jenova is a core element in the grand scale of things. Imagine the things we'll discover in due time!
Jenova is the great mystery to me. Iv heard her name since i was a child, caught glimpses of her from Advent Children, and am currently awaiting the rest of the remake because iv never played the original FF7 game
Great vid man. Definitely for those of us that are intrigued by the lore but didn’t have all the pieces. This ties a lot of the interest I had altogether. I like it!
I thought that during the game when jenova looks like sephroth, it’s because he is possessing her body essentially. Not that she was just under orders, more like she was a half dead corpse he is puppeting.
I really can not anticipate a re-imagining of Jenova as the final boss for the FFVII Compilation as a godly Cosmic being. Hopefully as a beautiful female, that has multiple transformations. That is what i wish for at least!
I absolutely love that after playing this game when it came out on the original PS1 (and then again years later on PS3), that we're still out here chatting about this story. I. LUV. IT. My wife thinks I'm a huge nerd, and when it comes to FF7, I totally F*$&# am. Nice work!
I think you hit the nail on the head, Jenova's role as an existential threat that served more as the catalyst rather than the main threat felt extremely unique for JRPGs. It being an evolution of something like The Thing made its presence in the story so, so eerie
Awesome video!!! Love hearing all these facts complied to help make more sense to these complicated characters! Especially one like JENOVA! I remember playing FF7 for the first time and when it became clear that JENOVA was controlling all these bodies it was terrifying. Also that such a creature and Sephiroth seemed to be working together helped the feeling of intimidation from facing such antagonists! I can't wait to see what direction the Remake takes with this. I'm also curious if there will be more possibly revealed in the new adaptions of the FF7 Compilation. In Crisis Core, Genesis had such a large role. Then is taken away by a mysterious duo at the end. (Possibly Weiss and Nero?) Then his reappearance at the very end of Dirge of Cerberus, in the scene with Weiss, always made me wonder if that was somehow because of JENOVA as well. It gave that game almost a hopeless feeling simply because it seemed at that point that there was no way to get rid of the alien entity entirely.
Sephiroth being taken from Lucrecia is probably the most heartbreaking moment from the story of ff7 for me... Her whole story broke my heart in DoC. 🥺 and it hits harder now that I have my own baby son.
Great video!!! I’m 25 years old and I been playing Final Fantasy 7 since the 1st grade. I played all the spin-offs, remake, watch the movie, and I’m still learning about the story. The story is complex and confusing but after watching this video, I get it now lol.
Thank you! This is my favorite FF game of all time. You gave an outstanding origin story. Jenova is one of the best villians along with Sephiroth. Cloud is my favorite hero of all time. I wish Aerith didn't die... Honestly, I loved every character and their stories.
I have always wondered if Jenova was a creature that feeds on planets and their lifestreams or if it was another Planets Omega weapon, similar to the plot of Spirits Within.
I have a headcanon that Jenova learned about earth culture while being experimented on, particularly the concept of motherhood. When Sephiroth came to be, she literally saw him as her child, which is why she worked with Sephiroth and seemingly protected him on multiple occasions. Jenova also has an interest in Cloud as he is one of a select few she directly communicates with, further cemented in the remake by Cloud saying "mother" when his mind was being filled with visions.
Jenova kinda reminds me of the monster from The Thing. It crashed onto the planet from space, it has Shapeshifting abilities, and it can infect people turning them into monsters.
If after all of this Jenova isn't scary enough for you, watch "The New Reunion: Final Fantasy Remake Solved". you'll see how truly terrifying Jenova is.
@@christopherbravo1813 Sephiroth isn't responsible for the mental break he had. I am still convinced that Jenova was the one controlling him right up until Jenova (synthesis) was killed.
FF7 is still my fav of all time because of HOW DEEP and HOW DARK the story is ... GAWD DAMN !!!!!!! I wish there were more weapons for us to fight tho .... threy were always to interesting in the lore.
Jenova has always been very mysterious. I remember back when I played FF7, I was wondering what her origins were and why they left it out. That was before Final Fantasy games had sequels and movies.
Fun fact: after Jenova depopulates a planet and kills its life stream, the planet “Dies” literally, then she uses that planet as a meteor to crash into the next planet, wounding it and starting the process over. At least, that’s what she does in OG FF7.
Then that's what she does, the new games are bullshit and God I hope people figure it out.
@@johnaeryns5364 what do you mean the new games are bs? You mean they changed the story?
@@scarvello fundamentaly no, they only made minor changes to the story to the extent that it's more of a soft reboot than a remake. My two main issues with the new game are that the honey bee Inn arc is completely different, and all the damn padding, with an obscene number of side quests and unnecessary add ons, and people say "oh it adds to Midgard" no...... no it doesn't.....it makes 1/4 of a 68 hour game into a 68 hour game and let's square Enix charge you 4 times for less content. It's fucking price gouging is what it is.
@@johnaeryns5364 Its not price gouging if it is fun. After all why do you play the game?
@@MrRaizada well, it's a jrpg, so you play it to experience the story. The new battle mechanics and graphics are nice sure. But you'll have just as much, if not more fun telling the story to a group of friends at a bonfire. Old fans like me play for the updated graphics of one of our favorite games. I was just pissed off at the ridiculous side quests to obtain items that were freely given before. If you ignore them and focus on the main story the game is about 14 hours long. It's that short, because it's only part of the first disc from the original. That's 14 hours, of a 60+ hour game. That's called padding. My only other gripe is that they completely changed the honey bee inn arc into some ridiculous dance number That's completely off theme for the game and the arc.
The images of Jenova just got more terrifying in the remake. Very unsettled so job well done on the developers
Probably square's plan cause jenova is a grotesque alien being that they likely wanted to show that now with the better graphic tech they had and yeah they did a good job
One of the best things about FF7R was the music during The Drum level, where Jenova is held, along with all the pods at the bottom. Extremely unsettling atmosphere, very alien, and very unique compared to the rest of the game prior. Showed that there was more to the game's universe than a corporation vs rebels conflict.
Yeah, they basically made Jenova look like a mix between the Venom Symbiote and the grotesque monsters from the various Resident Evil viruses, which fits perfectly lol
I dunno man. Those prerendered, blurry images of Jenova messed me up as a kid 😅
Would love to see it be more like The Thing since its slightly referencing
I would love to see a game set in the original battle of the Cetra against Jenova. With a The Thing vibe.
I can only imagine it would be just as horrific. Think of the dog scene, but with Chocobos
cosmic Eldritch horror. King in yellow vibe
This would be awesome
Magician vs Witch.. and the Coco Raider
I would love for FF 17 to do that. Make no reference to FF7 until the very end of it.
This is the best, most informative, comprehensive and well narrated video i've ever seen about this topic.
Having played both FFVII and Crisis Core a few times, Jenova's relevance to the plot was still somewhat fuzzy to me until now
Excellent work, congrats to everyone involved with this channel
I couldn't agree more. I always got a bit lost when trying to follow the entire plot around sephiroth, jenova, and the whole reunion thing.
If there's ANYTHING I want more, is to have Cloud and Vincent in my party to fuck up Hojo in the remake. A more painful and permanent death. None of that Weiss stuff.
Redxiii should be there as well and bite Hojo's head off.
Nah screw that, Sephiroth should be the one to do it.
Damn right bastard has it coming
My party will be Vincent Cloud and Red when I fuck up Hojo.
If you want Vincent, you're going to get Weiss. DoC is canon.
Jenova is literally "The Thing", but in jrpg form.
Maybe mixed in with the Venom Symbiote.
@Jason P Well I was just saying that Jenova also show showed traits similar to Venom from Marvel, as well as the Thing.
Been saying this for years. Then sephs madness allowed him to overcome its "will" controlling its cells as he pleases.
Thus manifesting himself through the weak willed tattoo experiments for reunion and Kadaj etc.
His ability to mentally attack others who were infected etc
@@larinkross9957 It also helps that in his madness, Sephiroth decided to more or less follow Jenova's example. He even said in Advent Children he would use Geostigma to use the planet as his vessel to travel the stars "just as my Mother did long ago."
Jenova is very much a cosmic Virus. Just as viruses infect healthy cells to fundamentally alter the cells' DNA to produce more viruses and Spread, Jenova invaded a healthy planet in order to take advantage of its Livestream and expand across the universe. Sephiroth had a strong enough Will to seize control and retain his individual identity, but he still wanted to carry out his "Mother's" Will. A voluntary host of sorts, or at least an obedient one.
@@taqresu5865 true that's why I feel 50/50 is jenova really riding back seat cause Sephy is a willing host or did he subsume it. I say it cause despite being female in appearance we know jenova can be whatever it wants.
Also by subsume I mean did he really repressed jenovas will. Because we do never see Jenova act of its own accord. It always seems to be reactionary to either a threat or sephys orders. But that still leaves it open to willfully riding shotgun, for now.
I could tell that Jenova has some heavy influences from “The Thing” given it’s ability to shape-shift, turn people into monsters and deceive people with imitations.
Exactly
You can also see some Lovecraft influences as well, deceiving the mind, body, and soul.
Also a fair bit of Frankenstein with the "man creates monster, who then tries to find its own humanity".
Yes, The Thing is clearly the inspiration for Jenova.
@@fendelphi Sephiroth wasn't a monster though. He was a human who'd been injected with Jenova cells whilst he was a foetus.
When i played this game when i was like 13 i had no idea of the underlying story, that the cells were the things motivating cloud, that sephiroth was actually dead or in the crater reassembling himself, until i read the lore a few years ago. Wish i had this video 2 decades ago, story would have made a lot more sense.
Same
Won't lie.
FF7's plot became a hot mess after disc 1.
Videos like this should not be needed. But they are amazing to have as now the plot an make much more sense.
I slightly disagree with the interpretation of Jenova being subservient to Sephiroth.
It seemed more like it willingly aided Sephiroth because his plan was literally what Jenova originally intended.
"Destruction".
Especially since Sephiroth wanted to carry out his "mother's" (Jenova) will.
@@RemnantSoul I don't know, I think the plot holds up pretty well. It just requires a lot of backstory and understanding to put it all together. Ultimately, I think Sephiroth was in control over Jenova, but I do like your idea that Jenova went in willingly since they had some shared goals.
@@Fogdiver69
As I got older and replayed it (also I've managed to dodge the Nostalgia bullet that many fans have for it. Not accusing you. Just stating that for some fans the game can do no wrong.) I essentially came to understand the plot better. But also have come to dislike how crazy and convoluted it got.
The plot started as a simple:
Resistance vs Evil Corporation. (Obviously this would evolve.)
Shifted to: Bio-experiments from Evil Corporation created a psychopathic super soldier and awoke an ancient threat.
(Fair enough. Decent fantasy plot.)
Then starts to muddy with...
Clones/puppets of said super soldier that aren't actually said soldier but alien copies of said soldier because of cells infused into people. Thus creating weird bio-hybrid alien-humans who change shape and form.
(Ok...sci-fi...ish...but the whole puppet thing really feels unnecessary.)
To...
Planet is Sentient and has now released hostile weapons in order to protect itself from the forces of the alien and super soldier. Said weapons seem to be aggressive to everything though so...uh...
Anyways...
Planet also uses the afterlife/lifeforce of all things dead and alive (Bare with me...the lifestream is sorta that) as a weapon to save itself. But somehow absorbing that alien and soldier into itself in the wake.
The character development of the game impo is absolutely phenomenal.
For me its how crazy and convoluted the plot gets that kills it for me.
FF8 was one of my favorites but the whole "time twister" part also killed alot of my enthusiasm for the narrative of that game.
It just sort of jumped the shark once people started getting possessed from the future, and folks who should be dead weren't dead, because "time" changes, people who could see the past and send folks into it...etc.
Like 7 it just hit a point where I was like. "Why? Why is this even needed?"
Oof...I hope some of that made sense. I have confused myself trying to explain it now...
@@RemnantSoul It's funny you mention FF8 because I'm in the middle of playing it through with my son right now. We just got to the part after Disc 2 ends, where you find out Edea has been controlled by Ultimecia the whole time.
I love the game and all, but it takes the convoluted storyline aspect of 7 and puts it on steroids. Though, I can actually rationalize and somewhat understand the whole causal loop/time paradox, etc. What really gets on my nerves is the whole wE aLl HaD AmNeSiA! subplot.
I still don't understand why that needed to be a thing. It would maybe have been enough if Squall and Rinoa had both been raised by Edea, since they were young it wouldn't be too unreasonable for them to forget or not recognize each other, especially if they were just 2 of multiple children. But every one of them, and Irvine didn't even forget but just didn't mention it? Lame, for sure.
Fun Fact again: Jenova Synthesis is Jenovas true form that attacked the Cetra all those years ago. That’s why she looks different than all the other forms.
She WAS the meteorite..
@@xxreyoxx then what is the thing sephiroth saw in mt nebulium
@@猜猜我是谁-q1x depends on what exactly youre speaking of, are u talking about the Makonoid? Or Jenova's body in the container behind the mechanical representation?
@@xxreyoxx yeah I am talking about that one the one that sephiroth said “we have finally met, mother” and then zack said“Sephiroth have you completely lost your mind？”
@@猜猜我是谁-q1x that was Jenova's body that Hojo and Gast found. Remember Sephiroth took her head but Shinra kept the body.
Really makes you wonder if there's more of her kind out there and where. Not only that, but WHY did Jenova crash on Gaia and for what purpose? Have other worlds been attacked by this and possibly other creatures of her same ilk as well...?
An interesting possibility.
I wonder the same thing about lavos from chrono trigger
Possibly in fact sephiroth says in advent children this line. " I shall use this planet to sail the cosmos just like my mother did long ago". Implying that jenova used a part of another planet to end up on gaia and repeat the process but Shiva and the cetra stopped him mainly Shiva as learned in remake that Shiva was the one who sealed Jenova away
this is why Jenova is pretty Lovecraft-ish as a villain. We may never know Jenova's motivations and how many crazy beings are out there. But She/It was able to wrestle even the planet itself and influence its living things, which is horrifying when you consider the power levels beyond our own earth out there.
The why could very well just be an interstellar parasite. She exists by corrupting and consuming. If anything this just underlies how strong Sephiroth is to take a strong parasite and weaponize it for himself whereas many Cetra had been tricked or overpowered by her
Great video. Just one theory though. We don't know who actually won the battle of wills between Jenova and Sephiroth. Since so much of Jenova was put in Sephiroth as a fetus, he is pretty much her child too. And for all we know, Jenova won the battle of wills and is using Sephiroth's body now as it is much stronger than her own body. Notice how quickly during the Nibelheim incident that Sephiroth changes (when he gets close to Jenova) and all of a sudden all of his goals now become Jenova's goals. He wants everything Jenova wants. And for the rest of the game, even after his body is found in the crater, everything he does is in service to what Jenova really wants.
Jenova is a master of disguise and manipulation. Just before Cloud and Tifa get to the crater, Jenova (in Sephiroth's form) convinces Cloud that he's just a clone, and not even real (a lie but he believes it). Also casts major doubt on Tifa to question her own reality and memories. Jenova killed Aerith. Jenova (again using Sephiroth's form) is in the temple of the ancients manipulating Cloud to give her the black materia. Think about this, every major event that happens in the game (except for the flashback, just before nibelheim incident), it is actually Jenova doing it. All the iconic things Sephiroth does, was actually Jenova doing it in Sephiroth's form. If Jenova is powerful enough to trick the Cetra and make herself look like them, manipulate them and wipe out most of them; I think she's more than capable of beating Sephiroth in a battle of wills. Especially when her own cells are inside of him. Look how easily she manipulated and controlled Cloud, and he has less of her DNA in him. I think it's fully plausible that Jenova is fully controlling Sephiroth. And also possible in the final battle that the "Jenova" you fight is just a piece of her or a shadow of herself, and extension just like the other pieces of her that are falling off through the game, that you fight. I think her body is deteriorating, and it is possible she now put her own consciousness into Sephiroth's body so she has a physical host.
The other theory is that both Sephiroth and Jenova's goals are exactly the same and they are both willing participants and that their wills join forces and combine, creating a whole new entity filled with both of them.
actually, after reading the first part of jenova winning over sephiroth in nibelheim.... this could explain why cloud was able to all of a sudden over power sephiroth and throw him into the lifestream( sephiroth was way stronger than cloud at this moment) but rather Jenova allowed it as it wanted to enter the lifestream
I like this explanation. I think what happened is that Sephiroth didn't exactly go mad when he discovered the truth, he simply had a mental breakdown and that allowed Jenova to take over his mind completely. From that point in Jenova was in control of all it's parts and the people hosting it's cells.
@@salsamancerI think it's better to look at it indirectly, moreso through Jenova guiding Sephiroth to have his mental state crumble at the realization that he was the same as the "monsters" from Soldier he was sent to kill and Jenova taking advantage of that to persuade him to do her bidding...
Much moreso than Jenova actually taking possession of Sephiroth's will and actually controlling and dictating his actions.
If you look at the mural in the temple of the ancients, it seems like the ancients were the ones to summon meteor. You can see people burning in the image, so maybe they used it to attack another group. I always thought it would have been interesting if that was the case and Jenova rode in on that very meteor.
I’m curious why you’re so sure that Sephiroth is commanding Jenova? I always thought the whole point of the story was to make you think he was the big bad, but actually looking deeper and realising a horrific eldritch space horror was controlling him through her cells…
Exactly !!!!! Take a look at the most recent trailer for First Soldier Part 2..... it's obviously Sephiroth being controlled by Jenova or he wouldn't have the head grab which is signature of Jenova control due to Cellullar Degradation .... video to come
I think he comes from the perspective that it was always Sephiroth's prerogative to decide what he would with the information he was given regarding the circumstances with his birth...
Extremely similarly, Mewtwo from Mewtwo Strikes Back also becomes evil after learning he was a science experiment. Granted, there's no Jenova there to persuade Mewtwo but Sephiroth did, very willingly and voluntarily, allow Jenova's will to become his own. It's for that reason that he wantonly uses his own mother's limbs as weapons, I doubt Jenova would think too highly of that
@@ChrrolloDI I mean..... you could use Mews influence on Mewtwo...... since they added the new line in the Strikes Back " I cannot forget the world where a certain someone flew away from me" ... which would be exactly what I am stating now.."In Evercrisis sephiroth says the line " I just want to be a nomal human"... while talking to Glenn forshadowing ...and also in the later FIrst Soldier depiction Hojo is lit by the Same Purple Hue of Jenova....AND we see Sephiroth remember his conversation with Glenn" that he can do better and that Glenn believes in him".... Sephiroth is no longer the mastermind... he is a fallen soldier who was experimented on by Hojo who will come back to the good side once he is told the truth about his birth.... we have already fought him twice in both games... and his final form from OG..... the Temple of Ancients dialogue reveals way more then you are accepting because.... maybe an FFVII purist? who knows.... We just fought final form Sephiroth in Rebirth... so who is the big bad now hahaha Answer... JENOVA
@@FungiFilmReviews Yes, he did come to that conclusion of wanting to be "normal" because he was more or less aware of his result being an experiment like the monsters he foughtz although that is a deconstruction of logic considering the fact that, again as Mewtwo realized, the circumstances of your birth don't decide who you are, yet Sephiroth still decided to give in to despair and madness, by his own will.
If Jenova was truly in control, then Sephiroth should have known who she was from the start seeing as Jenova would clearly recognize herself, not to mention the only reason Sephiroth was curious about Jenova to begin with was because of his vague understanding of his relationship with her, not because Jenova had begun to influence Sephiroth then and there.
Him coming to the good side after being told the truth literally makes no sense... Jenova already showed everything to him and he was still evil. At first, he wanted to promote the existence of the Cetra before learning that Jenova hunted the Cetra. Then, after knowing that Jenova was a monster who revaged the Earth, including the Cetra, he STILL wanted to end life on Earth and become a God.
You could argue Jenova influenced Sephiroth, which of course she did because of all the information and revelations she gave to him, but by no means did she actually control Sephiroth and possess his mind as some people think. He did what he did regardless of his circumstances.
Not to mention, Advent Children has nearly nothing to do with Jenova as far as Sephiroth is concerned. At that point, he's mostly hellbent on his own resurrection and dominance over the world.
@@ChrrolloDI Also hahaha How are you going to leave out the issues with this argument...
Mewtwo is cloned through Mew's DNA.... Sephiroth is conceived through Jenova DNA....
Mewtwo cannot defeat Mew... Sephiroth cannot defeat Jenova....
Mewtwo comes to the realization that eventhough he is a clone he still has meaning... Sephiroth will come to the conclusion that even though he is a clone he still has meaning... haha there thats the most simple rebuttle versus anything else hahaha
"I see now that the circumstances of ones birth are irrelevant. It is what you DO with the gift of LIFE that determines WHO YOU ARE" - Mewtwo final scene after ash depetrifies hahaha..... poor example for ya ...
Shinra's dark secret.
Hojo's treasure.
My kink
@@lohankarachay476
Ah, a man of culture as well
Sephiroth's mom.
I'm just a kid......
Referring to final fantasy X-2 ? @@moreknowledge2553
I never suspected that Jenova killed Aerith, or that it could even take Sephiroth's form.
Alot of players never got that meaning and that's fine. I believed that for a while too but after playing the original game 5 or more times it clicked that sephiroth was using jenova.
I’ve played the game like 3 times and I just found out today lol basically jenova is the main villain not Sephiroth..
@@jeremybrandt5779 That's right, after Nibelheim Sephiroth was likely killed or crippled and trapped within the life stream, his body was all that Jenova needed, after all he has perfected Jenova's cells wich cannot degrade or die and the greatest power of all soldier, yet the real villain was Jenova all along. That plot device that he somehow overtook Jenova's mind control due to him being stronger doesn't make any sense, there is no evidence of him having any kind of psychic power or resiliance prior to the awakening of the Jenova's cells in his blood, wich are Jenova itself. If he had a stronger will like they presume then he wouldn't have fallen to Jenova's influence that easy to begin with, because we know that after he learns the truth of his origins it gets all down hill straight to madness, there was no resistance or hesitation. This statement is nothing but a convenient attempt to elevate Sephiroth's fanboysm further. Furthermore Jenova came from the word Jehoba who is believed to be God who came to Earth and Sephiroth is a word that means messanger or God's manifestation in hebrew i think, so there you have it.
@@Swordyplayrebel so your saying all of 7 sephiroth is really jenova inside his body, I never realized that crazy.
@@Bluedude08 makes sense cause sephiroth was always a good guy, it was only after he learned of his birth, so pretty much all the "bad" sephiroth who wants to destroy the world and somehow always returns is Jenova using his body and soul, cause that was Jenovas plan all along to destroy the planet, this is why "sephiroth" can influence cloud is actually Jenova using cloud jenova cells to manipulate him, cause is weird how sephiroth somehow has become immortal? that's jenova disguising as sephiroth
All of Jenova's cells couldn't be gathered together, because some still live inside the frozen Lucrecia, which is why she was frozen in the first place so that she wouldn't become a monster.
Perfect timing. My playthrough of FF7RI reignited my curiosity about Jenova. Have also really been enjoying your guys podcast at work. Thanks for the great content.
Our pleasure Oliver, glad to hear you enjoy our content! :) ~Darryl
Podcast? Where?👀
@@thatonedudenamedvalentine7836 IOS podcast app. They have a FF/KH union podcast where they do episodes about each.
Oliver Hill I typed their channel name on it, no luck. What is their name?
@@thatonedudenamedvalentine7836 I found it just by typing in "Final Fantasy", but the official title is "Final Fantasy & Kingdom Hearts Union"
I always wondered why we never got a scene or scenario where the weapons try to attack sephiroth or the northern crater. Sephiroth was always a bigger threat than shinra
Because the weapons see humanity as the biggest threat
@@perrydunetz882 I doubt that considering their very existence is to destroy Jenova.
I always thought of it this way: the weapons were always doomed to fail as a threat to Jenova. The Cetra realized this as Jenova was cunning as opposed to just massively strong (even though they probably didn't know the depth of Jenova's distributed consciousness). And, as they were primal mega-creatures made by the planet itself, as a reaction to the devastation caused by the meteor that Jenova rode in on, it could have been a reason why the Cetra settled for sealing Jenova instead of letting the conflict drag on and allowing the weapons become a problem (either as a third party in the war that viewed them all as a threats, an ineffective ally of the Cetra due to the nature of the enemy, or even infiltrated and used by Jenova at worst). The Cetra are portrayed as being a wise people, above all other attributes. So I think they understood that raw power was a poor strategy when dealing with a deceptive entity. And that is the lead up to why I don't think that was ever in the cards. Jenova, and by extension Sephiroth, can deceive something that isn't smart enough to realize it's the problem. And I feel like the weapons fall into that category. They know there IS a threat because the black materia summoned meteor, but in the absence of a clear enemy to fight-since the crater was practically impenetrable, and there's an argument that it concealed Sephiroth-they turned to either patrolling for that enemy or attacking large concentrations of humans.
@@gogauze I was always under the impression they were attacking the things that were sucking up all the planet's energy. That's why they were attacking Midgar and the Port Town (forget the name) with the cannon. They were created to stop a Planet Ending threat, and Shinra sucking up all that energy deemed them that threat upon waking up.
The weapons are just dumb. That's why.
I've always liked to believe that JENOVA is an offshoot of the Lavos species from Crono Trigger. Thus putting both games in the same universe.
Both are of unknown origin, both hit the planet like a meteorite subsequently wiping out a dominant species, both are extraterrestrials. Yeah, there’s a similarity there for sure.
not related to Square, but I found the best way to visualize... or think of it, was the Naruto series and the Ōtsutsuki, with a splash of Yggdrasil is actually more like a mushroom infestation, or a tree growing out of a book, eating a world..but ohh, so this was what people meant by Chrono Trigger connections
guess story telling wise, they human shaped the aliens, keeping the infestation and energy taking parts
looks at the Great Serpent of Ronka... no... no it couldn't be....
yeah same thoughts
Square should make a movie about the origins of all this stuff leading up to the start of FF7.
Wait this is a cool idea
With the direction they took the remake I could only see them trying to make the origins to support the bat shit ideas they tried to shoehorn into the narrative.
Watch they just put announcement and say go play final fantasy x and support idea of 10-3 to happen
Proper though not changing everything or make it seperate I hate when they go away like the resident evil movies the Aninated version from Japans better
Love FF7!👍♥️👍♥️👍♥️
As far as I'm concerned, Square needs to bring all the major characters back including Sephiroth, Zack, Vincent Rufas, Aerith, Genesis and Kadaj!
I don't play the game, but I watch the movies, purchase the movies and love watching all the shorts on RUclips and story lines about ff7. ❤️♥️👍
I would love to see Sephiroth and Kadaj turn good, team together and fight other forces.
Would love Square to make a major motion picture that comes on HBO, like they have done in the past with other FF movies, except they need to introduce the public to these awesome FF7 characters. Vincent is so handsome and mysterious, love the way his Red clothing moves around as if it has a life of its own!Zack needs to stay alive and definitely not die, and would like to see his relationship develop with Aerith and friendship with Cloud. Zack can come close to death, but get better and continue on in these videos and movies. Just love this character and his relationship and close friendship with cloud. This group should become almost like the marvel avengers, group together, and become heroes!👍♥️👍♥️👍♥️👍♥️
I loved Final Fantasy 7 and Crisis Core, but the relationship between her and Sephiroth was always very confusing to me. I didn't even realize I was missing so many details. This video cleared it up a lot for me.
I think it's a mistake to say Sephiroth won out over Jenova. Much of FF7 revolves around how we understand our own identities. Not only Cloud struggles with who they are and who they can be. Sephiroth makes for an successful antagonist by the end because he no longer has a singular identity. Narratively speaking his goals are the same as Jenova. To consume the power of the life stream and move on to the next planet.
I argue that Reunion didn't begin when Sephiroth fell in to the life stream. It began when he became aware of his true nature in the mansion basement. It's only then that Sephiroth starts to exhibit a singular purpose bordering on madness. The same drive that forced Cloud to chase Sephiroth around the world. But unlike our blond pin cushion protagonist. Sephiroth dosen't fight that calling. Knowingly or otherwise, he embraces it.
Janova is a shapeshifter and master manipulator. It may not even have the same sense of self that humans hold dear. So I ask you. If Sephiroth want's what Jenova wants. If he's made of Jenova cells and uses Jenova cells in other's to progress his designs. Is he narratively distinct from Jenova? Or has his identiy and that of Jenova fused in to something indistinguishable from a single person? Was Jenova subservient to Sephiroth when it tried to stop Cloud at the expense of it's own life at the end of the game? Or is what we saw more akin to the hands rising up to protect the head from attack.
agreed!
I think one underrated aspect of Jenova is that essentially she (or it) is a parasite. Initially, on a planetary scale, travelling from world to world sucking them dry.
There's a lack of evidence as to how she did this previously, but as you've pointed out, if Sephiroth achieved his goal at the end of FF7, it would result in Jenova's goal.
Many parasites have the ability to manipulate or control their hosts in some way, and Jenova acting on a larger scale infects the "cells" of the planet (living organisms, like humans).
Interestingly, Ilfana mentions the use of viral warfare, and like parasites, viruses can also manipulate the behaviour of their hosts (like Rabies).
So I completely agree with the idea that Jenova's consciousness and will are not perceptible in the same sense as humans see it. And personally, I will always lean towards Jenova being the real antagonist intelligent enough to manipulate Sephiroth in the most apt way, without him even being aware of it.
Did you assume Cloud Strife is nonbinary?
@@Molotov_Milkshake The "They" in that sentence is meant to convey the rest of the team including Cloud. Unless you were joking. I hope you're joking anyway.
@@lordundeadrat yes I was joking lol
After seeing the Ancients Flash back in Remake, I really hope we to see a flashback of the Cetra fighting and sealing away Jenova. Sephirtoh was always the villain but....honestly he too was a victim. But Jenova was always the REAL threat, An wanted to destroy the planet. Also Jenova was always Sephiroths motivator, he wanted to destroy the planet or become a God like her. An truly believed that was his destiny. But we know so little of Jenova, an it would be cool if she actually returned. In her real form, instead of just possessing people or trying to control people. But the real her, an Cloud and the gang, trying to stop her for good.
As much as I loved FF7 story, I always didn’t like how we didn’t get enough Jenova. Like why did she return to earth...did she plan to come back one day. Or would she if it weren’t for Cloud and the gang defeating Sephiroth. But instead Sephiroth was just always the main focus villain. Hopefully we see her in the sequels of remake story.
Why she go to earth*
You put return for some reason, i theorized like many others that Jenova was a weapon from another planet why she went to earth who knows
@@tonyinfinite5174 Nope....You read correctly I meant what I said *returned* as in her returning in the flesh. In the present time. As a villain. She arrived thousands of years ago and was sealed away and Shinra found her and created pretty much Super Soliders of her DNA, She IS in the main story however....it’s just her dead body, and pieces that turn into monsters, or her possessing people or manipulating them, or even under her influence. But for her to *return* to the present and being a villain besides Sephiroth that would be interesting. Then we could possibly hear her motives on why she arrived on Gaia in the first place.
@@TheKira708 Shit well if we take FF10 into account here me out, it's speculated that humans are from Sphyra from FF10 how they got to earth was likely do to Omega since him and Chaos aren't present during the Jenova vs Cetra wars
@@tonyinfinite5174 It’s possible but, I don’t think will connect them. Since each game is its own Fantasy. Also it wouldn’t exactly explain why and Jenova go there as well as why did she kill all the Cetra and wannted to take over the planet etc. But hopefully we find out.
Maaan. Even better they should let us play that fight out a a flashback.
I believe the female form we see is essentially a Cetra hero that contained Jenova within herself as a self sacrifice last ditch effort to deal with the calamity. This would explain why Gast was fooled into believing Jenova was a Cetra, as well as why Sephiroth is able to manipulate the lifestream, something only the Cetra should be able to do. He can do this because the Jenova cells are impure, containing cells of the Cetra who imprisoned Jenova.
Jenova can manipulate the life stream because she/it is a planetary predator that goes around the universe consuming planets, it had probably consumed many other life streams... Don't forget that in ff7 the life stream is in fact a physical location for the afterlife, all the dead go there. The same energy Shinra uses to make electricity is just food for Jenova.
@@mikelfc2010 I do agree but like OP I can also agree that the person they call Jenova to not be the alien but a sacrifice made by the Cetra to contain the alien.
Nice theory! After watching this video, I really want a prequel where you play as the Cetra heros
You don't need that to exmaplin her appearance. It was said that Jenova shape shifted in Cetra to cheat them.
big brain right here
My fellow FF7 appreciator, you did an excellent job on summarizing "Mother's" backstory. It took me some years in the fandom to find all those facts, but your narration was the perfect review I needed to continue a fanfiction about her re-rise as an individual. Also I liked how you made clear for us that in the end, Sephiroth was the one in control, in antithesis with the relationships the other ff villains showed with their respective source of outer evil.
The things that I find most fascinating about the story of Final Fantasy VII, particularly the antagonists, is firstly, Jenova becomes a lot more horrifying when you read and understand some of Lovecraft's works and the concept of Eldritch horrors. Jenova could easily be an entity from Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythos and a lot of fans of this game and the 1982 movie "The Thing" have noted that there are some stark similarities between the titular monster/alien in the movie and Jenova. Particularly that both assimilated others and took their forms to sew mistrust and paranoia.
The second thing that fascinates me is the incredibly tragic story of Sephiroth. Most people who knew him maintained that, before the Nibelheim incident, he was a heroic and inspirational leader. He's very much surrounded in myth within the FFVII lore. When he and the other ShinRa personnel for to Nibelheim, before Cloud even asks, Sephiroth gives him permission to visit his friends and family. Likewise, in Crisis Core, he's shown to care very much for his subordinates. When Angeal clones are reported in Midgar, Sephiroth takes immediate notice of Zack's concern for Aerith and simply says "Permission to go to Midgar is granted." I'm also not sure if this was taken into consideration as well, but it's certainly a fascinating coincidence at the very least, but Sephiroth's English voice actor for Advent Children, Crisis Core, etc. also did the voice for Superman in numerous animated adaptations.
Sephiroth was, by all accounts, a kind and noble figure. I always interpreted his turn as a villain as a descent into madness. Perhaps the realization of the experiments that birthed him drove him mad, maybe he became power hungry. What I used to believe, thanks to the localization errors and confusion, is that Jenova took over Sephiroth after his defeat at Nibelheim. The revelation that Sephiroth is actually the one in full control is shocking. His disposition has changed completely and, rather than continuing on as a heroic figure after learning to exert his will over Jenova, he's fully on board with her plans.
Sephiroth always felt he was different from others and that he was special not to mention being a living legend who is praised and loved by all,sephiroth really bought in to his own hype when you think about it.
I like this
The interpretation I got back then was that Sephiroth merged with the Jenova remains while on the stream, becoming a new entity that got the characteristics of both, with Seph being the "front", face and memories and the alien the "back" as in desire and instinct of it.
Would love a prequel game taking place during the events of her arrival on Earth and the ancients first encounter with her and her eventual defeat.
My thoughts exactly
THE best Final Fantasy RUclips channel answering the question we didn’t know we needed answers to. Love love love your stuff 👌🏻
Jenova has so much lore to be explored in the remake, I really hope the developers don't drop the ball this time.
They better not explain too much. Some things are better left a mystery and part of jenova's charm is her mystique.
There's no FF7 without Jenova. This is an area that the remake has an opportunity to do better than the original.
Its cuz seph has a hyper high spirit. I realized when i saw he has a ring that greatly raises spirit how important the basic will to fight is possibly sephs highest importance. Seen many times strangely from artificial beings in games/film.
In my headcanon I always believed that Jenova and Sephiroth fused together. There was no real battle of wills they just wanted the same thing, and Jenova saw the opportunity that Sephiroth presented by having a really powerful physical form.
I don't think you are far off. Though it does beg the question... Are they truly separate entities at all? Or are they a singular mind?
@@fishdish9835 Considering he was injected when he was a fetus when he had no personality, that seems right.
I'm a fan of this theory for sure.
I have the impression that the process of his birth created a sort of layer of humanity over the alien entity. Sephiroth isn't exactly separate, he just had an independent identity until the division was broken
Jenova was always in complete control of Sephiroth
Jenova is one of the main reasons why this is my favorite FF. I love the fact that the main villain isn’t actually the main villain. Sephiroth isn’t really the main baddie, it’s Jenova. Everything that happens in the story is because of Jenova. And they left it as such a mystery character you can only kind of understand what she is but never entirely. Almost makes you feel sorry for Sephiroth because she was manipulating him just as much as she was Cloud. And even Hojo is just as much to blame as anyone. He played his part willingly without any manipulation. Sephiroth might be the final boss and technically the big bad, but in the end Sephiroth was just Jenova’s weapon.
Thanks a million to actually produce a video on my suggestion on Patreon! Ever thankful. 👏🏻
So she’s “the thing” but was released on a global scale.
And better looking
Basically yes
The Cetra didn’t “Die out” the Cetra had peace for so long that they didn’t use their powers anymore and simply forgot about them and effectively became humans
Half true, many took a life of leisure, but most died out because of Jenova.
not entirely correct. The Cetra originally were travellers, traveling around the world in order to find their "promised land". But a lot of Cetra gave up and just settled at random spots. Those Cetra would be the ancestors of the common people in the world.
The remaining Cetra traveled to where Jenova (an alien with illusion powers) crashlanded, and Jenova pretended to be a Cetra, only to them battle them and ultimately die, with a majority of the Cetra being annihilated.
i seem to remember...
when playing the original FF7, i found an abandoned laboratory, and some recordings of Aerith's Mother talking to an ex-Shinra scientist, and she said that Jenova pretended to be friendly, but gave the Ancients a VIrus that turned them into monsters!
but they managed to chop Jenova into pieces and scatter the pieces all over the planet before they succumbed.
@@ericb3157 Thats the recordings of Professor Gast, which you find in the Icicle Inn city. Professor Gast was a researcher doing research on the Ancients, Weapon, and came up with the Jenova Theory, which Hojo later stole after he had Gast executed (and Ifalna shot, but she escaped).
I dont know where you read the stuff on the virus and such. It sounds like either a bad fanfiction or something from Dirge of Cerberus.
@@michelvanderlinden8363 I thought the virus that killed most of the Cetra is geostigma? Wasn't it referenced in an ultimania?
Could not have clicked on a video quicker 😂
But yeah fantastic video again guys! Very informative and put a new perspective on Jenovas role and how that role married up with the other antagonists within the series!!
I've been waiting 24 years for this video.
Me 2
Me as well.. over all that time I had my own weird origin theories
Great video. I literally remember the first trailers for ff7 back in 1997. Insane so much time has passed but I am still a huge fan
FF7R-2 will more than likely delve deeper into Jenova in a way we haven't seen before.
It better
I hope you're right
God I hope so! They have the chance to expand the lore in so many ways and I can’t wait for Pt II to come out
In remake it was Shiva who sealed Jenova away not kidding, so when you play the original just remember when you get Shiva that she was the one who imprisoned jenova
Considering it’s the first remake..... and the game was made 20 years ago....... and they’re obviously changing shit already...... that’s like saying they’re upgrading the graphics
Been playing the OG game almost once a year since 97, played through every EU game at least once, yadda yadda - you still gave me some clarity about some standing questions especially surrounding Jenova appearing as Sephiroth during OG, and how sephiroth survived falling in the lifestream during the incident and surviving until you find his body at north crater
I would love to see an Emet-Selch origin video. His part in Shadowbringers was absolutely astounding. Plus, I believe his tale isn’t quite over yet.
So I took it upon myself to find the exact pages within the Ultimania Omega that pinpoint this topic and have found some very interesting information that actually states that both Sephiroth and Jenova are involved together, but there’s a big asterix on the “both” and “Jenova” parts to this.
There are actually pages dedicated completely to parsing which specific Sephiroth sightings are Sephiroth or Jenova (pg. 212), but again, there’s still a caveat to the latter. I had a hard time translating that particular page, but I believe my simple layout in the next two paragraphs states it accurately.
Beginning with Sephiroth, anything and everything to do with Cloud and the Sephiroth clones who had Jenova cells injected into them (the black cloaked people who were mentally broken from the Nibelheim fire and experimentally tested upon by Hojo) are being controlled by Sephiroth. That’s confirmed clearly on pg. 211 on a picture excerpt, the second from the bottom. The exact quote states:
“Reunion is an ability as a
Jenova (part/cell), but orders to Sephiroth Copies are for (from) Sephiroth as their master.” (Direct translation, but anything in parentheses here is actually what I believe the imperfect translation is saying. I don’t think any of my additions are stretches, merely clarifications that make it easier to read).
The other part to it is Jenova, more specifically her body parts (throughout the game, not including the one names SYNTHESIS at the end) which as I stated before, are confirmed to be acting purely on the impulse of mimicking Sephiroth’s will instinctively, even if there was a time thousands of years ago where she was alive and aware of the use of her abilities to shapeshift, deceive, close proximity, and infect. So during FF7 proper she’s not conscious of this, and also Sephiroth is not directly controlling her, but she is still carrying out his will instinctively because she’s instinctively mimicking is personality, memories, desires, and thus his will. She is simply a husk of her former self, the same way the Cetra are also not conscious anymore, but expressed now through the judgement of the planet. So instead of being more of a puppet being controlled by Sephiroth, she’s really more of a minion, albeit one for a super being who is congruent with her instinctive purpose. This is also clearly confirmed on pg. 211, on the second large paragraph of the page:
“Once upon a time (said in this way as to insinuate not anymore), Jenova used this ability to get close to the Ancients and plant a virus in them, causing them to die.”
Continuing in that very same paragraph, again on pg. 211, it’s even confirmed that Cloud’s cool demeanor during the beginning of the game is actually not him at all OR even a front, but the Jenova cells within him instinctively copying Tifa’s memory of Cloud whenever they met just before the start OG FF7 before Cloud agreed to help Avalanche, where he started acting very funny and unstable until he meets Tifa. Tifa elaborates on this before they really delve deep into Cloud’s subconscious in the lifestream if my memory serves me well. The quote on that page states:
“Not only Jenova itself, but also those who possess the cell have the ability to speak (not sure exactly what this is supposed to mean exactly), albeit imperfectly. Just before the start of the story, Cloud, who had a mental breakdown, returned to a seemingly normal state as soon as he met Tifa. By Jenova’s ability within him, because Jenova’s cells read Cloud in Tifa’s memory and Cloud's ideal image, it formed a new personality” (which is the personality Cloud is expressing in the start of the OG FF7).
It’s confirmed again on pg. 213, where the quote states:
“Cloud, perhaps because he was weaker than ordinary people both mentally and physically, could not become a SOLDIER and could not even maintain himself as a Sephiroth copy like the other residents of Nibelheim, and his spirit completely collapsed. After reuniting with his childhood friend Tifa in Midgar, he was supported by a false personality that was neither a copy of himself nor his original self.”
These examples are here to show how Jenova(‘s remains) can have her (their, in relation to her remains) abilities instinctively (also to say unconsciously) work in other aspects even outside of the Jenova/Sephiroth original debate.
So while both Sephy and Jenova are involved and shown in Sephiroth’s image, sometimes it’s Sephy actually taking control (like the cases of Cloud and those in black cloaks) and sometimes it’s an instinctive Jenova part, which instinctually mimics the shape, memories, and will of Sephiroth, again more like a minion, as Sephiroth isn’t actually directly controlling her 3 main parts, but she is robotically going through the motions of doing what she does as a mimic, and she has most likely instinctively mimicked what would most closely serve her instinctive purpose of destroying a planet and moving on to the next one to do the same. Sephy probably learns of Aeris’ death on his own, as she went back to the lifestream he was inhabiting when she passed (maybe Sephiroth also has some way of learning what parts of his will are carried out by her parts somehow as well? Not sure and can’t speak to it atm, but just a thought that came to my mind along this logical path of thought).
Something else that speaks to Sephiroth and his power is stated on pg. 213 regarding why some like Cloud get overcome, some like Zack don’t, but again mainly why Sephy has his power:
“The case of Sephiroth is extremely special. Until he learned the secret of his birth, he lived as a human despite his legendary strength, and five years ago he began to walk a different path from humans.
However, instead of being placed under Jenova's control, he seizes Jenova's initiative and controls their actions. This fact makes us feel the extraordinary strength of the life form Sephiroth.”
It’s also stated within the book that Sephiroth does officially die in Nibelheim 5 years ago (around the same pages mentioned already but if you want a specific passage I’d gladly go back in and find it), showing within FF7 proper itself how the great mechanic of the lifestream that speaks to the beautiful theme of life that the game is conveying is also what allows Sephiroth to be this Lovecraftian type fear and entity, one who does not die or completely cease, always looming, who can actually come back to the surface through the means of a weak/broken mind (or possibly even a willing participant).
Please let me know if you would like pdfs of these pages as well in case you would like to copy and paste them into translation programs to see it for yourself. Pdfs of the Ultimania Omega can also be found on google, as well as more translations about these topics and many other pages of support from the Ultimania Omega on gamefaqs.com (can also provide that to you as well). I’d also love to hear your opinion on all this as well. Let me know if you have anything you’d like to share.
Hojo kills Gast, Hojo’s son kills Gast’s daughter.
@@FrozenFacade Indirectly?
@@FrozenFacade Hojo shot Gast at point blank range, and Sephiroth impaled Aerith with his sword. You cannot get any more direct.
@@callmeshaggy5166It was JENOVA under the guise of sephi that killed Aerith
I got so confused when Angeal and Genesis started rapidly degenerating out of nowhere during Crisis Core.
I never made it far into FF7 as a kid and playing Crisis Core as a teen I was really lost at a lot of different points.
This explains a lot for me. Regardless of what I missed on plot when younger, the emotional attachment was always strong.
I still tend to prefer my own head Cannon wherein Jenova slowly turned Sephiroth into what he became. I like the idea of some insane Lovecraftian monster changing someone by merely being.
Excellent video! The overlayed videos from the OG FFVII, Remake, and Crisis Core helped me a lot with characters and timeline. Nice work!
I loved how in Remake they basically showed us that the Ancients were the pre-FF7 Amano type of characters. What if 4 is the past of 7 (Cecil and Kain and Rosa and all them are Cetra) and Jenova is a Lunarian? Perhaps a descendant of Zemus? I see a connection in those two universes. Maybe it’s the extraterrestrial thing?
The best cutscene in FF7 Original is when the Weapons awake seeing Diamond climb up the cliff, and look up to Ultima where he is screaming with the Highwind next to it. And then the crater explodes a d Ruby and Sapphire fly out as well
thx for the video,actually cleared allot up for me
Same.. now everything makes sense!
Ever since FF7R implied that Shiva was the one to seal Jenova in ice, it's now my headcanon that Jenova's female torso and head is a mimicry of Shiva herself. They look quite alike, don't they? And yes yes, I'm sure there is some other official explanation like Jenova is meant to resemble Sephiroth or Aerith. I just thought it would be a decent explanation for Jenova's feminine appearance.
Apparently in the original script Aerith and Sephiroth were supposed to be brother and sister which is why they might look alike.
Great video as usual, guys! I seriously wouldn't know 1/4 of the actual story of FFVII if not for you guys and these origins videos. These continue to renew my interest in the games I already love.
great video! 21 years playing this gem and I just don´t get tired.
It's not too dissimilar from The Thing. Except that Jenova is able to maintain control over its constituent parts, whereas the Thing will split into separate instance with no shared consciousness (or so I assume, given that each piece of the Thing acts individually, hence how they were able to do the blood test in the movie).
It's kinda of crazy that, not counting flashbacks, you don't see the real sephiroth until you give him the black materia in the northern crater, and then you don't fight him until the final boss fight of the game.
You mean he doesn't attack the party right after they leave Midgar?! lol
@@Molotov_Milkshake clearly they are adding a time paradox spin to it
@@lloydvallentine2 I know, and it's fucking awful.
Sepiroths entire existence was born out of a mistake made, believing jenova was a cetra
Goes to show dont always believe what you read
2 mistakes, who willing has sex with Hojo?
@@TheKnizzine a woman named Lucrecia Crescent...she's was a scientist who agreed to marry Hojo and willingly allowed her unborn baby--Sephiroth--to be experimented on.
This is incredible.. I know the story but got chills hearing it put so perfectly. Thank you
Genova can't be the only one.. also was the the best written enemy that I can see closer to reality than fantasy
Thanks for the vid guys, it's nice to re-learn the lore, especially when Jenova is a core element in the grand scale of things. Imagine the things we'll discover in due time!
Jenova is the great mystery to me. Iv heard her name since i was a child, caught glimpses of her from Advent Children, and am currently awaiting the rest of the remake because iv never played the original FF7 game
Is this still true? You havnt played OG FF7?
@@risenfromyoutubesashesagai6302 Yep, still true.
These arnt remakes they are sequals you will need to pkay og or the story wont make sense
This explanation gives more light and clears my confusion on the Final Fantasy 7 lore
Not sure if a origins video for Noel would be too similar to Caius' but I would love to see Noel and Yeul's story again
Great vid man. Definitely for those of us that are intrigued by the lore but didn’t have all the pieces. This ties a lot of the interest I had altogether. I like it!
I thought that during the game when jenova looks like sephroth, it’s because he is possessing her body essentially. Not that she was just under orders, more like she was a half dead corpse he is puppeting.
It's the other way around. Jenova was always in control of Sephiroth.
being an FF fan since day 1 i really don't know why i waited so long to sub to your channel.
What a pleasure this was to watch. Excellent work. Thank you.
I really can not anticipate a re-imagining of Jenova as the final boss for the FFVII Compilation as a godly Cosmic being. Hopefully as a beautiful female, that has multiple transformations. That is what i wish for at least!
I want something like Kefka from 6 where you have these not epic sequences to one boss
Kind of like ultemecia? That would be so epic
Okay weeb lol
I absolutely love that after playing this game when it came out on the original PS1 (and then again years later on PS3), that we're still out here chatting about this story. I. LUV. IT. My wife thinks I'm a huge nerd, and when it comes to FF7, I totally F*$&# am. Nice work!
Finally, a FFVII Jenova origins video :D !
Your videos are so top notch, keep it up!
I love them.
watching this right now before I go to sleep 🤗🤗🤗
Good morning Sunday 🙂
I think you hit the nail on the head, Jenova's role as an existential threat that served more as the catalyst rather than the main threat felt extremely unique for JRPGs. It being an evolution of something like The Thing made its presence in the story so, so eerie
Awesome video!!! Love hearing all these facts complied to help make more sense to these complicated characters! Especially one like JENOVA! I remember playing FF7 for the first time and when it became clear that JENOVA was controlling all these bodies it was terrifying. Also that such a creature and Sephiroth seemed to be working together helped the feeling of intimidation from facing such antagonists! I can't wait to see what direction the Remake takes with this. I'm also curious if there will be more possibly revealed in the new adaptions of the FF7 Compilation. In Crisis Core, Genesis had such a large role. Then is taken away by a mysterious duo at the end. (Possibly Weiss and Nero?) Then his reappearance at the very end of Dirge of Cerberus, in the scene with Weiss, always made me wonder if that was somehow because of JENOVA as well. It gave that game almost a hopeless feeling simply because it seemed at that point that there was no way to get rid of the alien entity entirely.
it feels illegal to call it a alien now lol.
I'd love to see Square release more info about the origin of Jenova in the future.
What other info would you want? It's an alien that consumes the lifestream of planets. There's not much to it really.
Sephiroth being taken from Lucrecia is probably the most heartbreaking moment from the story of ff7 for me... Her whole story broke my heart in DoC. 🥺 and it hits harder now that I have my own baby son.
Great video!!! I’m 25 years old and I been playing Final Fantasy 7 since the 1st grade. I played all the spin-offs, remake, watch the movie, and I’m still learning about the story. The story is complex and confusing but after watching this video, I get it now lol.
Ah, so Jenova is the meteor site and Sephiroth is Pennywise.
Do you have Genesis in a can?
You do? Well, you better let the poor guy out!
Kind of..... Maybe?
Replace “meteor site” with dead lights
Omfg I love this
Thank you! This is my favorite FF game of all time. You gave an outstanding origin story. Jenova is one of the best villians along with Sephiroth. Cloud is my favorite hero of all time. I wish Aerith didn't die... Honestly, I loved every character and their stories.
this story has always felt like a mess all over the place, but you pieced it together for me to understand a bit better.
Holy carp this is amazing! Thank you so much for putting this together.
Can't wait to watch this! Have always wondered about jenovas origins! Thank you for everything you guys do!
Great video. Spot on with the description of Jenova’s influence throughout the game.
As a kid, i just thought Sephiroth was an astral projection that sprinkled Jenovah pieces in front of the party.
I have always wondered if Jenova was a creature that feeds on planets and their lifestreams or if it was another Planets Omega weapon, similar to the plot of Spirits Within.
No one:
FF Union: AND SUCH WAS…
I swear ive beaten 7 MANY times and STILL, new information brings clarification to me regarding story.
Can you make an Emet Selch origins video?
I have a headcanon that Jenova learned about earth culture while being experimented on, particularly the concept of motherhood. When Sephiroth came to be, she literally saw him as her child, which is why she worked with Sephiroth and seemingly protected him on multiple occasions. Jenova also has an interest in Cloud as he is one of a select few she directly communicates with, further cemented in the remake by Cloud saying "mother" when his mind was being filled with visions.
I have played so many games, and this has always stood out to me as the best story ever told.
I will always love the content here... but adding the soundtrack really hits the emotions man. Thank you
MY NOTIFICATIONS ARE ON, BABY
Jenova kinda reminds me of the monster from The Thing. It crashed onto the planet from space, it has Shapeshifting abilities, and it can infect people turning them into monsters.
I want to see an episode for Laguna next.
He's Squall's dad...what more do you want?
Funny how Jenova is basically Lavos from Chrono Trigger.
I'm a simple man, I see Jenova, I click.
Props for using TPR’s music. He deserves more credit
If after all of this Jenova isn't scary enough for you, watch "The New Reunion: Final Fantasy Remake Solved".
you'll see how truly terrifying Jenova is.
Does Jenova manage to retcon a bunch of nonsense into a 'remake' of FF7?! If so, that truly is terrifying.
@@Molotov_Milkshake actually that was Sephiroth. Jenova wanted to keep everything the same.
@@christopherbravo1813 it was a joke about how FF7 Remake fell into pure insanity toward the end.
@@Molotov_Milkshake I kinda figured.
seriously though, a great deal of the insanity was in fact caused by Sephiroth.
@@christopherbravo1813 Sephiroth isn't responsible for the mental break he had. I am still convinced that Jenova was the one controlling him right up until Jenova (synthesis) was killed.
FF7 is still my fav of all time because of HOW DEEP and HOW DARK the story is ... GAWD DAMN !!!!!!!
I wish there were more weapons for us to fight tho .... threy were always to interesting in the lore.
yessss, time to press play!
This video was awesome , really enjoyed this one!
Jenova has always been very mysterious. I remember back when I played FF7, I was wondering what her origins were and why they left it out. That was before Final Fantasy games had sequels and movies.
Is Sephiroth really completely in control here?
I sincerely hope that they explore that in the rest of the remake!