29:32 there is a way to make it 6 voice polyphonic. If you press edit under Unison Detune and scroll through the different voice settings you should see “Poly-6” which will limit it to 6 voices.
Haha thanks - I found it the day after I uploaded this!! So many options I must have scrolled straight past it. Really wish I’d found it earlier!! Hope you found some of it useful/interesting. Cheers.
Does Poly-6 mode on the DM12 effetely use 2 voices per note? Limiting the poly to match the Juno but is the juno using one or two voices per note? Essentially is this still actuate or different from the Juno?@@StarskyCarr
@@JoshRichmanDesign It still uses 1 voice per note, as with the 12 voice or 8 voice mode, but just limits the number voices to 6. This gives note stealing like the juno 106, while still limiting to the 2 oscillators per voice. So if you use Osc2 as a sub you're in Juno territory.
@@JoshRichmanDesign just wanted to add, so others who click on this answer can see, that selecting "unison-2" does indeed use 2 voices per note, which makes them thicker. Options for unison are "unison-1/2/3/4/6/12"
By far the BEST detailed video showing a TRUE comparison of the Juno-106 with the Deep mind 12. This is the video that tells us that Behringer has a winner here. We all would love to have the vintage gear, But honestly if the Deepmind 12 has the Roland chip in it for the true filters and can come 97 percent exact of the sounds, that's good enough for me to get those lush chorus tones from the 80's.
I have been waiting for something like this. I got the DM 12D a few months ago and have just been preset surfing because I've just been more focused on songwriting. But I have wanted so bad to kind of dive in and make some vintage tones from scratch. This is such a wonderful lesson, thank you so much! Its such a daunting synth for a novice like myself, and having a roadmap like this is priceless! Tomorrow is my first day of in weeks, I'm going to treat myself to going through all of this. Thanks a bajillion 🖤🖤🖤
Rarely comment on videos but I really loved this. I have a stack of Juno-106's in various state of disrepair (one fully functional, all voices still working)... the DM 12 is now at the top of my GAS list. The part where you get to the chorus... I fell in love all over again. Just a very visceral feeling.
@@garljoens I only have one fully working juno-106 and the others are for parts to keep that one running. I got all of them except my original from e-bay... you should check there.
I've never owned a 106, but I do have the DeepMind 6 and it's an extraordinary achievement on Behringer's part. The menu-diving, such as it is, I thought would be off-putting, but it actually makes total sense when you're building sounds. You are building a sound and think, "Man, I just wish I could assign an ASDR to this parameter" or something, and then you realize it's right there for you. I've found it to be flexible and exciting to program. Also, the build quality is awesome (mine fell down a flight of stairs and still functions perfectly; a little worse for wear cosmetically though), and it feels great to handle. I know I sound like a shill for Behringer, but I think it's just incredible that you can get so much synth for your money. That said, if I were blindfolded, I think would prefer the 106 on a purely sonic level. And as soon as I find one in perfect condition for 500.00, I will buy one. **And thanks for the excellent post, by the way!**
Very useful, thorough demo. I didn't realize deepmind was inspired by the 106 until I saw this video. It sounds just as good as the 106 to my ears, and I suppose it can do a lot more than the 106. Your video has convinced me to get me a deepmind. Thanks!
The rate on the chorus of the deep mind on chorus 2 setting needs to be slightly faster and the depth needs to be turned up. That's the only difference. You can clearly hear the Juno 106 modulating, it's chorus effect it's turned up higher than the deep mind
From my ears, it sounds like there’s some filtering going on with the deepmind. I hear about the same signal coming from both, despite the higher frequencies being cut on the deepmind. I have one, and I’m not an expert but I’ve heard it be as bright as the Juno. I feel like it could easily produce that sound with tweaks.
When I bought my Juno 106 in the late 90s, people were still saying it was a crappy DCO synth. But the 106 had something special about the sound (the chorus was part of it). We appreciate it now, Deepmind is not bad at all, I like the 12 voice desktop version personally!
Digitally controlled analog oscillators. A lot of people mistakenly thought it was “Digital Oscillators”. All these years later and the 106 is still beloved by so many. Maybe even more than the vastly superior Jupiter 8 just because of how affordable/common it was.
Just great video. Never heard the Juno 106 "with the pants down" before. I have for a long time thought about buying a DM12. This made me wake up that thought again.
You could practically buy 3 or four of these for the price of one Juno. I’d imagine that would put you in polysynth heaven if you stacked the sounds and used one controller. And plus you would never have to worry about voice chips going bad. Awesome demonstration 👌
Waiting for my Deepmind 12 to arrive at the local shop. What a fantastic display of the Deepmind's extraordinary chameleon-like abilities. I'm more than excited to delve into these beautiful soundscapes.
Super useful. Thanks for taking the time to show that "default Juno setup". Making this an init patch is an excellent workflow starting point. Appreciated.
Just struck a deal with someone on a secondhand site for the Deepmind 12D, going to pick it up tomorrow. Too bad so many of the demos I heard so far are drowning in fx. This demo shows how good it can sound without. Can't wait to make some of my own raw presets.
I loved my Juno-6 back in the day (my first synth, unless you count the Casio SK-1). I love my DM-12 today. If you lust after the vintage analogs, that's understandable, but if you have a DM just enjoy the awesome sounds and capabilities and how close it can get to the vintage Juno's at a fraction of todays prices, and much much more beyond; with twice the polyphony (I tend to stick to 12 voice poly, because having a 12 voice analog poly is just gorgeous for pads), a great mod matrix and excellent effects x4. Behringer really did a stellar job on it. These are great days for synths! Now, if only Uli could replace the Synthex I moronically sold decades ago...
Just got my Deepmind 6 and followed this tutorial. Thankyou , i love these sounds. Such a good affordable synth. Thankyou for sharing your knowledge and love for these synths.
I think the intention was more to show that the DM can sound exactly like a classic synth. I mean, folks have been touting the “nothing compares to a Moog/Jupiter/Juno/...” line for years. The point is the DM isn’t a modern gimmick that “just doesn’t quite sound the same”.
It's like staring at your real Monet on the wall for so many years; an imitation is immediately noticeable. DM does well for itself, but to call others snobs because they prefer the character and sound of the original is a bit short-sighted. If you're happy with the DM12, be happy. Doesn't mean you have to knock others for their preference.
The difference for me is how it sits in a mix. Chromeo talk about the 106 and how much room it takes up in the mix. I used to fix audio equipment for a living and we fixed quite a few Junos. The Juno sounds great but it is definitely the big thick booming sound in the mix with the chorus. I play a lot of guitar and bass and I have quite a few synths. I’ve had a prophet 8, jx8p, jx-03,jp-08, Ultranova,microkorg, d-50, minibrute, neutron, reface cs, volca keys,bass,fm, m audio venom, op-1, circuit, minilogue, micro x, Korg triton, and micro moog. The Deepmind is thin and not as much to program as synths like the minilogue and reface cs but it sits in a mix wonderfully. Judged on its own it the Deepmind is not the most rewarding synth, but in my mixes it’s gold. The only other synth that fits that well is my monologue.
That’s a really good point. I had a Studio Electronics SE-1 for years, and although I loved the sound I rarely use it for exactly that reason. I’m a bit more adept at leaving some space now so the Minimoog doesn’t have those problems. The SE-1 completely dominated my supernova, JV2080, JP8000 and other 90,s classics!! ;)
James Reeno The reface cs had only one oscillator and still didn’t sit as well in a mix with guitars,bass, drums, and singing. I do some ambient and chill hop but no house,techno, or acid so other synths might fit better in those mixes. I think a singer songwriter who plays guitar will really appreciate the Deepmind in the mix.
Whether a synth sits well in a mix has nothing to do with whether it's got one or two or three oscillators. The DSI Prophet '08 and Prophet 6 both have two oscillators and sounds extremely different, even when you make patches on each of them as similar as possible. The Prophet 6 can easily kill all other synths in the mix, while the Prophet '08 most often fits in very well.
I just used the DM12 to do some overdubs, arps and pads in a busy mix. Once the sound is dialed in, all that is needed in DAW after recording, is a hi-pass filter. No further EQ needed. Also got a Neutron here, which is a bass monster - the 2 together sound absolutely fab!
This video makes it REALLY tough to want to get a Juno 106, other than for (potential) ability to sell for more later, and for its better aesthetics... imo.
I’ve got a 106 an enjoyed this comparison a lot. Seriously considering a deep mind 12 as well - especially because of what it does and the lovely but limited 106 can’t do. As dont think I’d like to take the 106 out of the studio either and you’ve really shown me how the deepmind is a great sounding modern alternative- especially if you need a performance synth! Thanks
The DM12 is a crazy powerful platform. Highly recommend the 'once upon a synth' channel's DM12 videos. He goes through building sounds from the ground up for all sorts of different tones, really taught me how to get started with, not only, subtractive synthesis, but also the DM12 in general. Def in love.
DEEPMIND 12 is the dream of my Old JUNO 6. 😍😍😍 LOL! So much things added by time, memories, effects, new features, He is not jealous, time is time, technology, prices... But as I'm a old 62 Grand Mother , and didn't have the money in the 90's to buy synths, I will not sold my Juno! It will stand ready to use sometimes, on dedicated stands in a room for 90's materials, and 95's 2000's computers working with old midi keyboards. I have also a Roland Sh 2000, need some job to sound well, but this mono instrument is already used by orchestral musicians on stage, for Bulgarian or Greek folklore!
I don't know I missed the portion of the video where you said what preset you started on to get the tone at 31:23, but what is it? I absolutely love it, thank you for making this video!
Watching this video was very revealing to me, thank you a lot! If I, as a non purist keyboardist, consider the fact that the J106 is much harder to get and costs a lot more, and also that the DM12 offers generally a very wide range of sound modulation for a great value, I'm absolutely happy with the DM12. I'm just about to decide if or not to buy one, but I think I just made my decision...
That rounded shape to the saw is some highpass filtering or AC coupling in the signal path. It might not even be audibly attenuating any frequencies at that point but it still affects the shape. That's also the cause of the shape of the DM12's square. You mention it being due to the way the square is derived from the saw, but that is actually the case the squares in pretty much all VCO and DCO synths. The weird shape is caused by filtering in the signal path. My best guess is it's a difference in the way the highpass is implemented between the two. The Juno highpass switches between fixed filters with different cutoff points, so "off" is likely a true bypass. The DM12 one has a variable cutoff, so even when the HP is at minimum it will be filtering some sub 20Hz frequencies. This won't audibly affect the sound but it will remove DC components from waveforms giving you that appearance of the waves curving towards 0V.
I love both synths, but I have to say that I do hear a definite difference in tone. The 106 sounds a bit more intrusive and aggressive to my ears. The DeepMind can be a little punchier sometimes, but overall it’s smoother and tame.
Thanks much for this - the first synth I owned was a 106 (it was stolen =P), so I bought the DM12d in lieu of buying another old 106. I saved the settings at the 6:43 mark as a Juno init patch.
I'm a "keyboardist", pianist or what have you, and I also prefer to have it off most of the time when creating synth patches. I created a separate "Default" patch with it turned off and then saved that so I can use it as a starting point whenever I please.
Many thx for your excellent work! I owned a Juno 6 as my main keyboard in a band in the 1980s and (unfortunately) selled it for a more "modern" keyyboard in the 1990s :( I bought a Deepmind 12D a few weeks ago to get these sounds and with your video I might be able to get them :)
Just listening through my cheap laptop speakers, the Saw comparison definitely shows a bit more "brightness" on the 106, but the Deepmind sounds like the volume is a bit lower as well. Otherwise, I've wanted a 106 for years, so I'm excited to get my Deepmind later this week and achieve similar sounds. Thanks for this comparison.
Great video!! You have definitely helped me make my decision on which Synthizer to get. I am very happy to say that I am the proud owner of a vintage Roland Juno-106.💪🏻😎👍🏻
Thank you for this. I have a knackered 106 in my closet, that I'm not willing to send out for repair (it's been there for years). I received a Deepmind 12 a few days ago, and it's wonderful. I knew it was supposed to be inspired by the 106, but didn't know how close it could match its sounds. And so much more. I love this thing!
I’ve owned several 106’s, a Jx-3p, & a Juno 6 at different times. I own a deepmind and did a similar comparison with my 3P. You can get reeeeaallly close to recreating the sounds of the others on the deepmind. I sold my Juno6 after I got the Tal plug-in though. It’s spot on. The deepmind is close, but it could be a monster with an updated chorus. As you mention in the video, the tal chorus plugin is superb. The deepmind is it’s own thing- poly chord- built in effects- exstensive modulation matrix- !aftertouch!- and polyphony will make it a future classic . I wish behringer had kept the push button patch recall though!, menu diving for presets is fine in the studio, but not so great live! - and the favorites menu isn’t much help-(User hint: if you want the immediacy of being able to turn on/off the chorus-or any effect, assign the wet/dry signal to one of the faders of env. 3 in the mod. Matrix😉-you’re welcome!)
During the chorus comparison part at the end, the Juno has this really pleasing sizzle on the top end which the DM never quite seems to get too. The sounds when theyre both more muted were identical to me though but I was wanting to see you try and reprogram the DM to emulate that top end sizzle after the not is heald for a couple of seconds and you never did. IDK if thats an issue for the DM or if it could be programed in. Kinda new to synths.. love the 106. But weary of buying something so old.
The "sizzle" is noise coming from the chorus unit. The 106 was noisy from the factory but nearly 40 years later, those capacitors are failing. If you want to replicate the noise, just have a droning white noise sound faintly in the background with the chorus enabled.
You've got 4 effect units to add sizzle or anything else. Check out the "mood filter" with notch filter option and/or EQ and you still have 2 slots left for the chorus and a great reverb.
great pads - really does the Juno justice once you throw the chorus on top. this seems like a great synth for me to leave in my jam space for those spontaneous jam nights where I don't feel like going back to my apt to grab the moog. Great oscillators, 12 note polyphony and effects - and most of all relatively cheap for the great sounds.
They sound very close to me. I like the more precise basses on the 106. But I would definetly rather spend my money on the Deepmind. Still like Pro6 better though. But maybe I'll end up with both, who knows? :)
It’s funny to me how much people are crazy about the Juno, it was one of my first synthesizers next to the 101, polysix and Alesis ion and if I’m honest without letting nostalgia get in the way, I was much much more likely to go to the Ion for pads and the 101 for bass/leads
Nice to see clear contents written for this video! Cool video. Not heard the DeepMind 12 before properly or the 106 really. Great video - one of the clearest synth demos that I have seen, no BS just right! I liked the sound at 9:09 when you played both together! Is that a Model D in the background, an original one or a new one? You mentioned the P6 and OB6 have you demoed those? I'm going to look at your other uploads!
Thanks so much for your very good reviews. Because of your Behringer Mini D review I bought it...and because of your Deepmind 12 review I will buy it!!!
I have both of these synths and what it comes down to for me personally is the interface of the Juno 106. There is just something else there for me to be inspired. I really do believe the interface of a synth matters to creative flow. Both are great machines though. Great video as always.
Thanks. There is something great about an immediate interface. It’s part of what makes the 106 so special... and probably why everyone had one and could handle it enough to always get sensible tones from it. No accidentally knocking the cross mod into spaced out madness!
Having a single control per function is great for instant gratification, but it's not so great for flexibility. Almost all the control you have on a Juno-106 is directly available on the DM, and then it just adds a metric shit ton more with minimal menu diving. You can also get two of them new for the price of a single 2nd hand Juno-106. We're spoiled in 2020!
Hi Starsky! Erasure in their album "The Innocents" has use a lot of full bass from Juno's 106, maybe 60. I can emulate closely on the real Juno's, but not in any emulation like Deepmind, or so in Roland Boutique counterparts! Something is failed on all emulations, and don't understand what are. May be the chorus? the PWM? or so on... I'm very frustrated with modern recreations of Juno's... Thanks for your comparison, are so excellent. Greetings from Chile!
Well, the drift parameters get you pretty close to (OB/P5) VCO territory, but the DM's sub is still just a square wave, and the DM's main DCO lacks a mix control for its waveforms. As for the CS80: no, not without the ribbon controller. Get a Hydrasynth plus DM-12 module, and you'll be smiling ; - )
A few things. You played two patches with the chorus and made the comment "they sound really similar" but it doesn't take a trained ear to hear how much better the Juno chorus sounds . The Juno Chorus may very well be the richest chorus ever made. The Deepmind was inspired from the Juno in the looks, not the sound. I can't speak too much about the 106 because, when I owned both the 6 and 106, I sold the 106 as it was just so sterile by comparison. But I had a Deepmind in my studio for a few weeks and did some direct comparisons between the Deepmind and the Juno6, and the tone was very different. Playing an arp on both really made it clear how different they were, and it makes sense as the Juno 6 is like having 6 different mono synths, and it just comes alive like crazy. Whereas the Deepmind sounds sterile, and like a analog modeling synth. Both of these synths, when the chorus is off, sound similarly sterile.
Thanks, you’re right in that they don’t sound the same - but that was never the intention. I was showing how to make them sound similar and demonstrating how to get Juno-ish tones from the Deepmind. A lot of folks may well be trying as it was originally intended to be a Juno clone not only in looks (that’s from direct contact with the designer btw not conjecture). I never say the DM chorus equates to the Juno - it’s clearly different. I wish I’d kept hold of some of my older Rolands like my Jupiter 4 which I suspect had similar qualities to you Juno 6.
Excellent video. Really good to see proper spectral and waveform analysis. I wasn't aware the 106 was the inspiration for the DM. As you've demonstrated - to my ears - how you can achieve very similar tones.
The 12D is my first jump into hardware poly after a bazillion years of various modular and mono. I've been getting lost into pads for days now.. dunno how I'll use em in a mix yet.. but nice to have em at my fingertips. Thanks for the lesson!
The basic saw on the DM seems to be a bit less bright than the 106. Maybe I'm hearing a bit more low end information and my ears are telling me there are less highs there. Curious if maybe slight curve on the saw is responsible for that. Maybe the curve gives it a slight bit of sine or triangle quality underneath the tone. Pure speculation. Could be my head phones.
There is less high frequency content in the Deepmind's saw. I don't think it's so much the curve of the saw, but the lack of a "pip" when it resets. You can see it in the scope.
@@tehrobotjesus Right, it's visible. I guess I'm curious about what contributes the dm12 osc having less harmonics(at least in higher octaves). Seems like it would either need to be the shape of the wave or whatever is happening after it, with the filter and such. When are we going to get knob for "pip"? Haha
it is definitely related to that curve. The frequency content is basically the same between the two synths, but what's different is the *phase* of those harmonics. When you shift the phases of the harmonics very slightly over the frequency range of a waveform, what you get is a slightly 'warping' of that waveform's appearance -- straight saw waves become curved, etc. The audible effect is that harmonics don't *resonate* with each other quite as much, and the wave begins to have a softer, perhaps even warmer tone, depending on the amount of phase shift.
Awesome job dude, very in-depth! You basically convinced me to get a DM12D (I don't care about the keys, I prefer to use my external midi keys). Got an amazing deal for $449.99, super excited about it. Thanks!!!
I was in the same boat like you,i also have nice midi controllers,but I use them to control my modules only,there is a feeling of immediacy ,when pulling out my DM12 ,and just switch it on and start playing,don't have to reach out for a midi controller all the time,just plug and play.
Wonderful demonstration, thanks a lot man! I'm really impressed with the Deep Mind, especially considering the price for which you can get the 6 voice version today.
There are two differences I'm hearing between the two. The first, and most noticeable, is that his 106 is seemingly set slightly louder than his DM12. I noticed this across all of the sounds he played. The second is that the DM12 has a slightly 'smoother' sound. Judging by the waveforms on display, this is due to a very slight phase shift across the harmonics that make up the sound. All of the same harmonics are present, and likely at the same levels, but the interplay between the harmonics is slightly different since they peak at slightly different times, and thus have slightly less resonance among the harmonics. This makes the wave sound very slightly softer and gives it a curved appearance. The funny thing is, over the years I've seen comparisons of devices with straight/curved waveforms, and people always seem to have different perceptions of exactly which ones are 'fatter' or 'warmer' every time (usually determined by whichever is more expensive!)
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29:32 there is a way to make it 6 voice polyphonic. If you press edit under Unison Detune and scroll through the different voice settings you should see “Poly-6” which will limit it to 6 voices.
Haha thanks - I found it the day after I uploaded this!! So many options I must have scrolled straight past it. Really wish I’d found it earlier!! Hope you found some of it useful/interesting. Cheers.
Does Poly-6 mode on the DM12 effetely use 2 voices per note? Limiting the poly to match the Juno but is the juno using one or two voices per note? Essentially is this still actuate or different from the Juno?@@StarskyCarr
@@JoshRichmanDesign It still uses 1 voice per note, as with the 12 voice or 8 voice mode, but just limits the number voices to 6. This gives note stealing like the juno 106, while still limiting to the 2 oscillators per voice. So if you use Osc2 as a sub you're in Juno territory.
@@JoshRichmanDesign just wanted to add, so others who click on this answer can see, that selecting "unison-2" does indeed use 2 voices per note, which makes them thicker.
Options for unison are "unison-1/2/3/4/6/12"
@@marcosantacruz9086 There is option for Poly-6 and -8 which limits the voices that are used. Unison is different from this.
Just have to say I’ve probably watched this video at least 3 times...
By far the BEST detailed video showing a TRUE comparison of the Juno-106 with the Deep mind 12. This is the video that tells us that Behringer has a winner here. We all would love to have the vintage gear, But honestly if the Deepmind 12 has the Roland chip in it for the true filters and can come 97 percent exact of the sounds, that's good enough for me to get those lush chorus tones from the 80's.
I didn't really "get" the DM until I saw this. Seriously now considering selling my uninspiring Boutique JP-08 to help finance a DM.
I have been waiting for something like this. I got the DM 12D a few months ago and have just been preset surfing because I've just been more focused on songwriting. But I have wanted so bad to kind of dive in and make some vintage tones from scratch. This is such a wonderful lesson, thank you so much! Its such a daunting synth for a novice like myself, and having a roadmap like this is priceless! Tomorrow is my first day of in weeks, I'm going to treat myself to going through all of this. Thanks a bajillion 🖤🖤🖤
This video really influenced my decision to buy a Deepmind 12. So glad I did. Thanks!
5:30 made me a believer.
Rarely comment on videos but I really loved this. I have a stack of Juno-106's in various state of disrepair (one fully functional, all voices still working)... the DM 12 is now at the top of my GAS list. The part where you get to the chorus... I fell in love all over again. Just a very visceral feeling.
Please let me purchase one of your 106es!
I'll pay you very fairly!
@@garljoens I only have one fully working juno-106 and the others are for parts to keep that one running. I got all of them except my original from e-bay... you should check there.
I've never owned a 106, but I do have the DeepMind 6 and it's an extraordinary achievement on Behringer's part. The menu-diving, such as it is, I thought would be off-putting, but it actually makes total sense when you're building sounds. You are building a sound and think, "Man, I just wish I could assign an ASDR to this parameter" or something, and then you realize it's right there for you. I've found it to be flexible and exciting to program. Also, the build quality is awesome (mine fell down a flight of stairs and still functions perfectly; a little worse for wear cosmetically though), and it feels great to handle. I know I sound like a shill for Behringer, but I think it's just incredible that you can get so much synth for your money.
That said, if I were blindfolded, I think would prefer the 106 on a purely sonic level. And as soon as I find one in perfect condition for 500.00, I will buy one.
**And thanks for the excellent post, by the way!**
Why anyone would pay over $2k for the original is beyond me. Behringer did a wicked job w this unit.
Very useful, thorough demo. I didn't realize deepmind was inspired by the 106 until I saw this video. It sounds just as good as the 106 to my ears, and I suppose it can do a lot more than the 106. Your video has convinced me to get me a deepmind. Thanks!
I think the original idea was recreate 106 but it developed little further than that
hey man you commented this 1 year ago still happy with your deepmind?
@@robbinhasseltof4428 Bump, would like to know also.
Yess update us!
Yes update us please!
The rate on the chorus of the deep mind on chorus 2 setting needs to be slightly faster and the depth needs to be turned up. That's the only difference. You can clearly hear the Juno 106 modulating, it's chorus effect it's turned up higher than the deep mind
TAL UNO-LX is worth checking out too on the iPad or VST plugin, I'm a former Juno 106 owner, and it is VERY close!
From my ears, it sounds like there’s some filtering going on with the deepmind. I hear about the same signal coming from both, despite the higher frequencies being cut on the deepmind. I have one, and I’m not an expert but I’ve heard it be as bright as the Juno. I feel like it could easily produce that sound with tweaks.
When I bought my Juno 106 in the late 90s, people were still saying it was a crappy DCO synth. But the 106 had something special about the sound (the chorus was part of it). We appreciate it now, Deepmind is not bad at all, I like the 12 voice desktop version personally!
12D 🤘🏿
Digitally controlled analog oscillators. A lot of people mistakenly thought it was “Digital Oscillators”. All these years later and the 106 is still beloved by so many. Maybe even more than the vastly superior Jupiter 8 just because of how affordable/common it was.
lost it at "Sounds like it's been smoking for years" lmao
Just great video. Never heard the Juno 106 "with the pants down" before. I have for a long time thought about buying a DM12. This made me wake up that thought again.
106 has more bottom. How come these old buckets always have so much low end?
Great video! Good to see the Deepmind12 getting some love. Really is a fantastic synth.
Since the 106 there has been NOTHING that is as capable.
It’s a lot of fun. Of course it’s no Moog One but it doesn’t cost Eight Grand either!
You could practically buy 3 or four of these for the price of one Juno. I’d imagine that would put you in polysynth heaven if you stacked the sounds and used one controller. And plus you would never have to worry about voice chips going bad. Awesome demonstration 👌
I bought two junos with price of deepmind12
@@lownrgy No you didn't.
It's 2022 and I still haven't made up my mind 😵
Waiting for my Deepmind 12 to arrive at the local shop. What a fantastic display of the Deepmind's extraordinary chameleon-like abilities. I'm more than excited to delve into these beautiful soundscapes.
Is it as good as you expected?
Super useful. Thanks for taking the time to show that "default Juno setup". Making this an init patch is an excellent workflow starting point. Appreciated.
Just struck a deal with someone on a secondhand site for the Deepmind 12D, going to pick it up tomorrow. Too bad so many of the demos I heard so far are drowning in fx. This demo shows how good it can sound without. Can't wait to make some of my own raw presets.
I loved my Juno-6 back in the day (my first synth, unless you count the Casio SK-1). I love my DM-12 today. If you lust after the vintage analogs, that's understandable, but if you have a DM just enjoy the awesome sounds and capabilities and how close it can get to the vintage Juno's at a fraction of todays prices, and much much more beyond; with twice the polyphony (I tend to stick to 12 voice poly, because having a 12 voice analog poly is just gorgeous for pads), a great mod matrix and excellent effects x4. Behringer really did a stellar job on it. These are great days for synths! Now, if only Uli could replace the Synthex I moronically sold decades ago...
Perfect, my thoughts exactly
Just got my Deepmind 6 and followed this tutorial. Thankyou , i love these sounds. Such a good affordable synth. Thankyou for sharing your knowledge and love for these synths.
Hey Starsky, these demos are so invaluable. Thank you so much. I'm loving what berhinger and Music Tribe are doing ... good music making.
Comparing a Juno with the DeepMind, with all his added features, is like watching Bruce Banner becoming Hulk.
I think the intention was more to show that the DM can sound exactly like a classic synth. I mean, folks have been touting the “nothing compares to a Moog/Jupiter/Juno/...” line for years. The point is the DM isn’t a modern gimmick that “just doesn’t quite sound the same”.
The pure waveforms are better on Juno.
Sure but how often would you use pure waveforms in a musical context?
Man that Juno 106 sounds so good!!! You should make a Juno 106 sound bank for the Deepmind 12...
there is one sound bank of juno at deepmind 12 facebook page
Absolutely nice work!
your work proved this synth's ability.
I'm DeepMind12 owner too. Of course I'm enjoying this guy's power!
It's like staring at your real Monet on the wall for so many years; an imitation is immediately noticeable. DM does well for itself, but to call others snobs because they prefer the character and sound of the original is a bit short-sighted. If you're happy with the DM12, be happy. Doesn't mean you have to knock others for their preference.
The DM12 emulates the Juno 106 very good, great video. The added features on the DM12 really compliment the synth.
The difference for me is how it sits in a mix. Chromeo talk about the 106 and how much room it takes up in the mix. I used to fix audio equipment for a living and we fixed quite a few Junos. The Juno sounds great but it is definitely the big thick booming sound in the mix with the chorus. I play a lot of guitar and bass and I have quite a few synths. I’ve had a prophet 8, jx8p, jx-03,jp-08, Ultranova,microkorg, d-50, minibrute, neutron, reface cs, volca keys,bass,fm, m audio venom, op-1, circuit, minilogue, micro x, Korg triton, and micro moog. The Deepmind is thin and not as much to program as synths like the minilogue and reface cs but it sits in a mix wonderfully. Judged on its own it the Deepmind is not the most rewarding synth, but in my mixes it’s gold. The only other synth that fits that well is my monologue.
That’s a really good point. I had a Studio Electronics SE-1 for years, and although I loved the sound I rarely use it for exactly that reason. I’m a bit more adept at leaving some space now so the Minimoog doesn’t have those problems. The SE-1 completely dominated my supernova, JV2080, JP8000 and other 90,s classics!! ;)
Big Bad Wolf it does not take up space in any mix. Only ONE oscillator.
James Reeno
The reface cs had only one oscillator and still didn’t sit as well in a mix with guitars,bass, drums, and singing. I do some ambient and chill hop but no house,techno, or acid so other synths might fit better in those mixes. I think a singer songwriter who plays guitar will really appreciate the Deepmind in the mix.
Whether a synth sits well in a mix has nothing to do with whether it's got one or two or three oscillators. The DSI Prophet '08 and Prophet 6 both have two oscillators and sounds extremely different, even when you make patches on each of them as similar as possible. The Prophet 6 can easily kill all other synths in the mix, while the Prophet '08 most often fits in very well.
I just used the DM12 to do some overdubs, arps and pads in a busy mix. Once the sound is dialed in, all that is needed in DAW after recording, is a hi-pass filter. No further EQ needed. Also got a Neutron here, which is a bass monster - the 2 together sound absolutely fab!
This video makes it REALLY tough to want to get a Juno 106, other than for (potential) ability to sell for more later, and for its better aesthetics... imo.
33:38 that's totally bang on! Unless you're a total snobby princess
...or have the super powers that many young idealistic youtubers claim to have.
I was also shocked by that chorus similarity - and lol'ed a bit because the moment I thought of TAL's plugin, you brought it up, haha.
The only Chorus VST anybody needs. Then for analog HW... the MF-108M Cluster Flux. Man it's too bad those were discontinued.
That TAL chorus is something else man. I almost think I overuse it.
I’ve got a 106 an enjoyed this comparison a lot. Seriously considering a deep mind 12 as well - especially because of what it does and the lovely but limited 106 can’t do. As dont think I’d like to take the 106 out of the studio either and you’ve really shown me how the deepmind is a great sounding modern alternative- especially if you need a performance synth! Thanks
The DM12 is a crazy powerful platform. Highly recommend the 'once upon a synth' channel's DM12 videos. He goes through building sounds from the ground up for all sorts of different tones, really taught me how to get started with, not only, subtractive synthesis, but also the DM12 in general. Def in love.
Great video as ever. Just ordered a DeepMind 12D - I sold two Juno 106s as I didn't have room for them... this is the perfect solution!
Thanks brother for all of your hard work. We all so appreciate what you do for the community. Much respect!
DEEPMIND 12 is the dream of my Old JUNO 6. 😍😍😍 LOL! So much things added by time, memories, effects, new features, He is not jealous, time is time, technology, prices... But as I'm a old 62 Grand Mother , and didn't have the money in the 90's to buy synths, I will not sold my Juno! It will stand ready to use sometimes, on dedicated stands in a room for 90's materials, and 95's 2000's computers working with old midi keyboards. I have also a Roland Sh 2000, need some job to sound well, but this mono instrument is already used by orchestral musicians on stage, for Bulgarian or Greek folklore!
thanks a lot ! i apreciate that with my low level of english I CAN UNDERSTAND YOU YEAAAAAHH !!! Viva Starsky !!!! Eres bueno !!!
"Some people don't like 4 octave keyboards."
I hear as I'm looking at my Deepmind 6 with it's 3 octaves.
is that just the default setting for the chorus?
I don't know I missed the portion of the video where you said what preset you started on to get the tone at 31:23, but what is it? I absolutely love it, thank you for making this video!
Watching this video was very revealing to me, thank you a lot! If I, as a non purist keyboardist, consider the fact that the J106 is much harder to get and costs a lot more, and also that the DM12 offers generally a very wide range of sound modulation for a great value, I'm absolutely happy with the DM12. I'm just about to decide if or not to buy one, but I think I just made my decision...
That rounded shape to the saw is some highpass filtering or AC coupling in the signal path. It might not even be audibly attenuating any frequencies at that point but it still affects the shape.
That's also the cause of the shape of the DM12's square. You mention it being due to the way the square is derived from the saw, but that is actually the case the squares in pretty much all VCO and DCO synths. The weird shape is caused by filtering in the signal path.
My best guess is it's a difference in the way the highpass is implemented between the two. The Juno highpass switches between fixed filters with different cutoff points, so "off" is likely a true bypass. The DM12 one has a variable cutoff, so even when the HP is at minimum it will be filtering some sub 20Hz frequencies. This won't audibly affect the sound but it will remove DC components from waveforms giving you that appearance of the waves curving towards 0V.
I love both synths, but I have to say that I do hear a definite difference in tone. The 106 sounds a bit more intrusive and aggressive to my ears. The DeepMind can be a little punchier sometimes, but overall it’s smoother and tame.
For the Price different, Deepmind Wins ;-)
what buying the juno 106, realizing you F#UP, makes you say.
@@caresseofficial6741 I got my juno for free! So I have no biases about its tone.
This video sold me on it. Bought one, and after the init tweaks, I'm blown away. There's also a Mod Matrix unison hack to get 2 saws! It's a keeper
Could you explain how to do this?
@@offwork2162 See this video, but also the first comment - use "VCA Active" not "VCA ALL" ruclips.net/video/6tQyOe9cedc/видео.html have fun!
Absolutely superb. Thank you.
Thanks much for this - the first synth I owned was a 106 (it was stolen =P), so I bought the DM12d in lieu of buying another old 106. I saved the settings at the 6:43 mark as a Juno init patch.
Just use the Synth as a synth and not as a "Juno sort-of". You can do so much more with it than you could with a Juno, it becomes pointless.
Of course... you’re right it can do so much more. This is just an idea for anyone wondering how to do it.
The velocity sensitivity being on by default is my peev with the dm. If I want velocity sensitivity I'll add it, and 90% of the time I don't want it.
It's on by default on almost anything that supports it.
Agreed, wish I could store my own init patch on it. Pretty please, Behringer?
I'm a "keyboardist", pianist or what have you, and I also prefer to have it off most of the time when creating synth patches. I created a separate "Default" patch with it turned off and then saved that so I can use it as a starting point whenever I please.
Many thx for your excellent work! I owned a Juno 6 as my main keyboard in a band in the 1980s and (unfortunately) selled it for a more "modern" keyyboard in the 1990s :( I bought a Deepmind 12D a few weeks ago to get these sounds and with your video I might be able to get them :)
Just listening through my cheap laptop speakers, the Saw comparison definitely shows a bit more "brightness" on the 106, but the Deepmind sounds like the volume is a bit lower as well. Otherwise, I've wanted a 106 for years, so I'm excited to get my Deepmind later this week and achieve similar sounds. Thanks for this comparison.
Great video!! You have definitely helped me make my decision on which Synthizer to get. I am very happy to say that I am the proud owner of a vintage Roland Juno-106.💪🏻😎👍🏻
“Sounds like it’s been smoking for years” haha, that’s great; made me laugh! Great video btw.
Crikey... someone actually listens. Cheers.
great video. as a new DM12 owner i'm really regretting selling my 106 years ago.
Thank you for this. I have a knackered 106 in my closet, that I'm not willing to send out for repair (it's been there for years). I received a Deepmind 12 a few days ago, and it's wonderful. I knew it was supposed to be inspired by the 106, but didn't know how close it could match its sounds. And so much more. I love this thing!
dude, i'll take your broken 106.
THANK YOU! I bought a juno but it's not working properly so I have to give it back. I will go for a DM12 after your excellent video! thanks :)
I’ve owned several 106’s, a Jx-3p, & a Juno 6 at different times. I own a deepmind and did a similar comparison with my 3P. You can get reeeeaallly close to recreating the sounds of the others on the deepmind. I sold my Juno6 after I got the Tal plug-in though. It’s spot on. The deepmind is close, but it could be a monster with an updated chorus. As you mention in the video, the tal chorus plugin is superb. The deepmind is it’s own thing- poly chord- built in effects- exstensive modulation matrix- !aftertouch!- and polyphony will make it a future classic . I wish behringer had kept the push button patch recall though!, menu diving for presets is fine in the studio, but not so great live! - and the favorites menu isn’t much help-(User hint: if you want the immediacy of being able to turn on/off the chorus-or any effect, assign the wet/dry signal to one of the faders of env. 3 in the mod. Matrix😉-you’re welcome!)
During the chorus comparison part at the end, the Juno has this really pleasing sizzle on the top end which the DM never quite seems to get too. The sounds when theyre both more muted were identical to me though but I was wanting to see you try and reprogram the DM to emulate that top end sizzle after the not is heald for a couple of seconds and you never did. IDK if thats an issue for the DM or if it could be programed in.
Kinda new to synths.. love the 106. But weary of buying something so old.
The "sizzle" is noise coming from the chorus unit. The 106 was noisy from the factory but nearly 40 years later, those capacitors are failing. If you want to replicate the noise, just have a droning white noise sound faintly in the background with the chorus enabled.
You've got 4 effect units to add sizzle or anything else. Check out the "mood filter" with notch filter option and/or EQ and you still have 2 slots left for the chorus and a great reverb.
I'm only watching this because I'm drunk and have owned the Juno . Both are fun, but thee Deepmind is wonky nutz for Great layering fun! Cheehrs!! :)
great pads - really does the Juno justice once you throw the chorus on top. this seems like a great synth for me to leave in my jam space for those spontaneous jam nights where I don't feel like going back to my apt to grab the moog. Great oscillators, 12 note polyphony and effects - and most of all relatively cheap for the great sounds.
They sound very close to me. I like the more precise basses on the 106. But I would definetly rather spend my money on the Deepmind. Still like Pro6 better though. But maybe I'll end up with both, who knows? :)
DM12, Top of my GAS list.
I like the desktop version myself
Someone is a drone fan!
What a crazy insightful video. Thanks for making it!
Very well done, thanks!
4:38 was all I needed.
It’s funny to me how much people are crazy about the Juno, it was one of my first synthesizers next to the 101, polysix and Alesis ion and if I’m honest without letting nostalgia get in the way, I was much much more likely to go to the Ion for pads and the 101 for bass/leads
Nice to see clear contents written for this video! Cool video. Not heard the DeepMind 12 before properly or the 106 really. Great video - one of the clearest synth demos that I have seen, no BS just right! I liked the sound at 9:09 when you played both together! Is that a Model D in the background, an original one or a new one? You mentioned the P6 and OB6 have you demoed those? I'm going to look at your other uploads!
This is one of the beste DM12 tutorials I allready watched it 2 times, no preparing to do this on my deepmind 12, it sounds lovely
Yep. For a Juno x6x, Behringer - take my money.
Also TAL-U-NO-LX is good too.
Thanks so much for your very good reviews. Because of your Behringer Mini D review I bought it...and because of your Deepmind 12 review I will buy it!!!
Haha - a great responsibility indeed. I hope your wife/partner doesn't mind!!
haha! No problem there! I love the passion you put into it...very funny as well :)...thanks again!
I have both of these synths and what it comes down to for me personally is the interface of the Juno 106. There is just something else there for me to be inspired. I really do believe the interface of a synth matters to creative flow. Both are great machines though. Great video as always.
Thanks. There is something great about an immediate interface. It’s part of what makes the 106 so special... and probably why everyone had one and could handle it enough to always get sensible tones from it. No accidentally knocking the cross mod into spaced out madness!
Having a single control per function is great for instant gratification, but it's not so great for flexibility. Almost all the control you have on a Juno-106 is directly available on the DM, and then it just adds a metric shit ton more with minimal menu diving. You can also get two of them new for the price of a single 2nd hand Juno-106. We're spoiled in 2020!
DM12 , a Juno series spirit with an affordable price, thx Behringer. Killer deal !
The pad starting at 36:29 is all I needed to hear to finally want the Deepmind
Hi Starsky! Erasure in their album "The Innocents" has use a lot of full bass from Juno's 106, maybe 60. I can emulate closely on the real Juno's, but not in any emulation like Deepmind, or so in Roland Boutique counterparts! Something is failed on all emulations, and don't understand what are. May be the chorus? the PWM? or so on... I'm very frustrated with modern recreations of Juno's... Thanks for your comparison, are so excellent. Greetings from Chile!
What makes you think it was a 106 or 60? Vince Clark had access to everything under the sun.
i prefer Behringer, Juno 106 is old crap with outdated leaking capacitors. Sawtoth better on J106
Brilliant. We need more legend synth emulations by the deepmind. I m sure he can emulate OBx, P5 and CS80
Well, the drift parameters get you pretty close to (OB/P5) VCO territory, but the DM's sub is still just a square wave, and the DM's main DCO lacks a mix control for its waveforms. As for the CS80: no, not without the ribbon controller. Get a Hydrasynth plus DM-12 module, and you'll be smiling ; - )
Deepmind 12 is like a Juno 106 on steroids!
Unstable, aggressive and ultimately short-lived? I agree. JK. DM 12 does well for itself.
A few things. You played two patches with the chorus and made the comment "they sound really similar" but it doesn't take a trained ear to hear how much better the Juno chorus sounds . The Juno Chorus may very well be the richest chorus ever made. The Deepmind was inspired from the Juno in the looks, not the sound. I can't speak too much about the 106 because, when I owned both the 6 and 106, I sold the 106 as it was just so sterile by comparison. But I had a Deepmind in my studio for a few weeks and did some direct comparisons between the Deepmind and the Juno6, and the tone was very different. Playing an arp on both really made it clear how different they were, and it makes sense as the Juno 6 is like having 6 different mono synths, and it just comes alive like crazy. Whereas the Deepmind sounds sterile, and like a analog modeling synth. Both of these synths, when the chorus is off, sound similarly sterile.
Thanks, you’re right in that they don’t sound the same - but that was never the intention. I was showing how to make them sound similar and demonstrating how to get Juno-ish tones from the Deepmind. A lot of folks may well be trying as it was originally intended to be a Juno clone not only in looks (that’s from direct contact with the designer btw not conjecture). I never say the DM chorus equates to the Juno - it’s clearly different. I wish I’d kept hold of some of my older Rolands like my Jupiter 4 which I suspect had similar qualities to you Juno 6.
Seems to me the 106 is a bit punchier sounding. But for the most bit the Deepmind is pretty close.
The waveform is shaped like that because some Bass EQ as been applied to the Oscillator by default, internally.
What a great video, I hope Behringer have watched you sell them a few more thousand DM12’s!! I’ve ordered 1 👍
fantastic comparison, thanks!!! it definitely made me decide where to put my money next :)
somehow the Juno "hugs" you even when it plays an annoying frequency.
Excellent video. Really good to see proper spectral and waveform analysis. I wasn't aware the 106 was the inspiration for the DM. As you've demonstrated - to my ears - how you can achieve very similar tones.
The 12D is my first jump into hardware poly after a bazillion years of various modular and mono. I've been getting lost into pads for days now.. dunno how I'll use em in a mix yet.. but nice to have em at my fingertips.
Thanks for the lesson!
Dude I can find on your Ytube everything I need!
Sounds the same as to make no difference I have the cash but im going to have trouble getting it into the house past the boss she just dosent get it🙍
The basic saw on the DM seems to be a bit less bright than the 106. Maybe I'm hearing a bit more low end information and my ears are telling me there are less highs there. Curious if maybe slight curve on the saw is responsible for that. Maybe the curve gives it a slight bit of sine or triangle quality underneath the tone. Pure speculation. Could be my head phones.
There is less high frequency content in the Deepmind's saw. I don't think it's so much the curve of the saw, but the lack of a "pip" when it resets. You can see it in the scope.
@@tehrobotjesus Right, it's visible. I guess I'm curious about what contributes the dm12 osc having less harmonics(at least in higher octaves). Seems like it would either need to be the shape of the wave or whatever is happening after it, with the filter and such. When are we going to get knob for "pip"? Haha
it is definitely related to that curve. The frequency content is basically the same between the two synths, but what's different is the *phase* of those harmonics. When you shift the phases of the harmonics very slightly over the frequency range of a waveform, what you get is a slightly 'warping' of that waveform's appearance -- straight saw waves become curved, etc. The audible effect is that harmonics don't *resonate* with each other quite as much, and the wave begins to have a softer, perhaps even warmer tone, depending on the amount of phase shift.
Awesome job dude, very in-depth! You basically convinced me to get a DM12D (I don't care about the keys, I prefer to use my external midi keys). Got an amazing deal for $449.99, super excited about it. Thanks!!!
I was in the same boat like you,i also have nice midi controllers,but I use them to control my modules only,there is a feeling of immediacy ,when pulling out my DM12 ,and just switch it on and start playing,don't have to reach out for a midi controller all the time,just plug and play.
Wonderful demonstration, thanks a lot man! I'm really impressed with the Deep Mind, especially considering the price for which you can get the 6 voice version today.
Fantastic video, thank you so much! Just got my DM12 and loaded up your bank.
Is the pad played at the end also included in the downloadable bank?
MMMmmmm for sure. The Juno 106 was the 'cheap' polysynth of it's time. Some even had speakers built in.
HS 60, right.
I want a plain… regular Juno60 at modern affordable price..
7:45 The Juno 106 sound much fatter on the straight Saw, which seems to be a result of the cleaner, sharper Saw wave as the oscilloscope shows.
There are two differences I'm hearing between the two. The first, and most noticeable, is that his 106 is seemingly set slightly louder than his DM12. I noticed this across all of the sounds he played. The second is that the DM12 has a slightly 'smoother' sound. Judging by the waveforms on display, this is due to a very slight phase shift across the harmonics that make up the sound. All of the same harmonics are present, and likely at the same levels, but the interplay between the harmonics is slightly different since they peak at slightly different times, and thus have slightly less resonance among the harmonics. This makes the wave sound very slightly softer and gives it a curved appearance. The funny thing is, over the years I've seen comparisons of devices with straight/curved waveforms, and people always seem to have different perceptions of exactly which ones are 'fatter' or 'warmer' every time (usually determined by whichever is more expensive!)
Love your vids. Keep em coming
Yeah there's definitely a bit of grunt in the top end that the 106 has but the DM12 doesn't