I'm a lever guy and love the history behind the 45/70 . And the fact it will drop anything on the North American continent is an added plus. I wouldn't give up my Marlin for nothing.
The Thumper concept was not for hunting. It was about short range combat engagements. It was supposed to be a team with thumpers and 1 soldier armed with a long range scoped bolt rifle. He lays it out in "To Ride, Shoot Straight and Speak the Truth".
You are indeed correct. Going back and looking at things, I admit I worded that part of the video poorly. It would have been better if I said something along the lines of "the 450 Bushmaster was based on Jeff Cooper's "Thumper" concept with some modifications and was originally designed for hunting large game out to 250 yards."
I got a Mossberg Patriot .450 Bushmaster. Love it. Cheap gun, so I'm not banging a $1,200.00+ Henry/Marlin through the woods and elements. 250gr ftx Hornady Black/customs have been droppin the hammer on White tails.
I like the breakdown using data and facts to make recommendations. In particular I like how you based recommendations based on use cases with a mix going one way or another. Very well done.
Awesome Dan, glad to have you here! Hope you enjoyed our discussion last night. I'm also a big fan of the 45-70 and I'm glad to hear you've had success with it too!
Mine is a Traditions 450 Bushmaster. I have been consistently striking 6 inch steel plates at 100 yards using Hornady American Whitetail 245 grain SP loads.
I have a couple of Spanish American War issue .45-70-500 Infantry cartridges. Always been a fan of the .45-70 and a hot load using 400 or 405 grain handloads in my 1886 Saddle Ring Carbine.
I've got a 45-70 government made by Henary,& so far hogs & black bear,but I plan to take it with me as a back up for my 338 Lapua Magnum either one will take down a brown bear,so I love my 45-70& my 338 LM
The 450 Bushmaster is a recipe for a wounded buffalo, don't do it. There's just not a great selection of bullets for the 450 Bushmaster cartridge that are up to the task of killing a water buffalo or a cape buffalo. The situation is a little better with the 45-70
@@Thebiggamehuntingblog I got an AR stoner 350 legend barrel from midway USA and it refused to feed. The rounds would get halfway into the chamber and bind up. I tried all the .350 legend mags I could find so I gave gave up and sold all of my .350 stuff and now I distrust straight walled stuff. Bought half a dozen bottle necked barrels and they all work perfectly. Maybe be a fluke but I’m not putting my money on it.
@@Thebiggamehuntingblog I think if I ever put together a deer hunting AR-15 I may go with something like the .300 hammer from Wilson combat. I claims to replicate 30-30 ballistics.
Junk it and get something reliable like one of the inexpensive Ruger bolt actions if you want to shoot those calibers. At least you'll have something fairly accurate and reliable. If you happen to hunt in Iowa see my long main comment.
I like the 4570. But what is the difference of the 4570 and the 4590? Do they still make that cartridge and making that rifle? I know it's a 45 caliber over 90 butter. It's a longer casing, I know that much. But is it more effective than the 4517 and the 450 bushmaster? Ask you because you're seem very knowledgeable about everything you're saying and I have worked in a gun shop for about 10 years, and I applaud you with your information. It's been more than gracious. Thank you very much, yours, truly Ziggy.sigifredo Garcia 3.😊
I'm not aware of any company that makes 45-90 ammo and rifles right now. But yes, it can shoot the same weight bullet somewhat faster than the 45-70. As far as I know though, that cartridge was only produced in single shot rifles (like the Sharps), not "repeaters" like the 45-70. Glad you enjoyed the video!
If you reload, both are incredible bear stompers! 450 bush - 225 grain ftx loaded to 2495 fps = 3109 ft energy but I would load a 300 grain 4570 to max 2,424 fps for 3900 ft pounds for use in bear country. Levers are more reliable than semi auto....but hell I have never shot a griz but have shot a black bear..
Interesting, I was considering a lever action in 454 Cassul that for deer and pig. Mainly using hot loaded 45LC and carrying the cassul for bear protection. But then there is the 38-55
Several FYI's: 1. I didn't know SAAMI had raised the MAP for 45-70 to 28,000 psi. I have the latest SAAMI specs using the piezo electric transducer method and you are correct. With that in mind anyone shooting a trapdoor Springfield or Remington Rolling Block had better read the box on whatever factory ammo they're shooting! Prior to that all the major manufacturers kept their 45-70 loads to not over around 24,000 psi. 2. There is published loading data strictly for Ruger Number and Siamese Mauser 45-70 that can push a 400 grain jacketed bullet to over 2000 fps. That comes close to 458 Win Mag and should be plenty good for elk, moose, etc out to somewhat past 200 yards if you know how to sight your rifle and can handle the recoil. Pressures are as high as 50,000 psi. The Ruger Number 1 is not really very heavy with its medium sporter barrel. I think those really heavy load 45-70's in that one would be somewhat punishing to shoot but I don't have any experience with it. Even with standard loads the 1895 Marlin will get your attention. I do have experience with the the early 1970's 1895 both with factory and low and mid power hand loads. I also have a custom Siamese Mauser with a 24" heavy barrel. Even with the extra weight the super heavy loads still DEFINITELY get your attention. 3: Over two years ago Iowa changed it's deer hunting regulations. Those truly straight walled cased cartridges like 45-70 and 444 Marlin are no longer required. They have a minimum 35 caliber through but not over 50 cal and minimum energy requirement for both rifles and hand gun. Using their metric, 35 Remington, 358 Winchester, 35 Whelen and several others are legal. They have a list but state that their published list is not complete. They do include 350 Legend and 450 Bushmaster on their list. If you want to use a 30-30 or other similar powered cartridge that does not meet the minimum (I believe .350 ) bullet diameter regardless of energy and case shape, you're still SOL. To further complicate matters they now allow 223 Remington in AR's in certain zones during certain portions of their deer seasons. Check the Iowa DNR website for details. I'm a former Iowa resident from days long ago when it was shotguns with slugs only so I keep track of their regs in case I go up there to hunt with my relatives. They grow some big, heavy corn fed deer. Other Midwest states like Indiana and Illinois are changing too. Happy hunting boys and girls! 😄
I own a lot of guns and have shot a lot of guns. I choose the 65 Creedmoor. I call it the laser beam. Nothing can touch it I don't know what it is. But again it's not anything to be compared to these
I'm a lever guy and love the history behind the 45/70 . And the fact it will drop anything on the North American continent is an added plus. I wouldn't give up my Marlin for nothing.
i have taken 6 bigfoots with the 450 bashmonster... it is absolutely my favorite squatch stomper
Haha. Tell me more!
The Thumper concept was not for hunting. It was about short range combat engagements. It was supposed to be a team with thumpers and 1 soldier armed with a long range scoped bolt rifle. He lays it out in "To Ride, Shoot Straight and Speak the Truth".
You are indeed correct. Going back and looking at things, I admit I worded that part of the video poorly. It would have been better if I said something along the lines of "the 450 Bushmaster was based on Jeff Cooper's "Thumper" concept with some modifications and was originally designed for hunting large game out to 250 yards."
@@Thebiggamehuntingblog I'm surprised I don't see more online about 450 for bear.
@@brianc9374 I can tell you it does a great job on black bears. My buddy hunts with a .450 and has taken 2 with it. Neither went more than 30 yards.
I got a Mossberg Patriot .450 Bushmaster. Love it. Cheap gun, so I'm not banging a $1,200.00+ Henry/Marlin through the woods and elements. 250gr ftx Hornady Black/customs have been droppin the hammer on White tails.
I like the breakdown using data and facts to make recommendations. In particular I like how you based recommendations based on use cases with a mix going one way or another. Very well done.
Glad you enjoyed!
This was the most interesting history lesson on shells I’ve ever heard. Bravo. And thank you. I subscribed as a result !!!
Awesome, glad you enjoyed it!
Who-Tee-Who sent me. Took 2 whitetail with the 45-70 Henry last year. Love it.
Awesome Dan, glad to have you here! Hope you enjoyed our discussion last night. I'm also a big fan of the 45-70 and I'm glad to hear you've had success with it too!
My preference is the 45-70 , it has always served me well
PS. Thank you for the video it was very interesting and informative
👍👍👍👍👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
Mine is a Traditions 450 Bushmaster. I have been consistently striking 6 inch steel plates at 100 yards using Hornady American Whitetail 245 grain SP loads.
Ruger American making clover leafs at 100 using Hornady Black
I have a couple of Spanish American War issue .45-70-500 Infantry cartridges. Always been a fan of the .45-70 and a hot load using 400 or 405 grain handloads in my 1886 Saddle Ring Carbine.
Another EXCELLENT video! Thanks for all the great information.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I've got a 45-70 government made by Henary,& so far hogs & black bear,but I plan to take it with me as a back up for my 338 Lapua Magnum either one will take down a brown bear,so I love my 45-70& my 338 LM
Great job on a very good comparison sir.
Have took deer with both here in the mountains of Virginia
Thanks 👍
Great video and thank you!
I just need to look up pictures of these other cool rifles you were referencing.
👍👍
Very. Informative. Video. Now. Like. You.said. the. Different. Reasons. To. Make. Things. Work. Individually. For. You. In. Specialized. Use. I. Find. The. Rimmed. Cartridges. Interesting. For. Levers. As. You. Mentioned. And. They. Seem. To. Be. Favorable. In. Sxs. Olu. And. Sls. Rifles. Thats. All. I. Know. But. That. Is. My. Uniqueness. Kinda. Traditional. In. An. Old. Fashioned. Way. Have. A. Nice. Day...
I inherited a Winchester firing the 405 Winchester round . From everything I’ve found it was made for Teddy Rosevelt 3:28
Great info mate
Luv my 450 for anything under 150metrea, drops anything in oz at close range , awesome for thick scrub work
Cheers
Rob in
Thanks 👍
Thinking of a 450 for buffalo up the territory do you think it will be effective enough
The 450 Bushmaster is a recipe for a wounded buffalo, don't do it. There's just not a great selection of bullets for the 450 Bushmaster cartridge that are up to the task of killing a water buffalo or a cape buffalo. The situation is a little better with the 45-70
My other choice I was thinking was 300 win mag
@@Thebiggamehuntingblog Agreed mate, sorry my bad, should have probably said anything but buffalo and camel,
cheers
Rob
Great video! I’d consider a .450 bushmaster but I have had bad luck with straight walled cartridges in ARs.
Tell me more about the issues you've had.
@@Thebiggamehuntingblog I got an AR stoner 350 legend barrel from midway USA and it refused to feed. The rounds would get halfway into the chamber and bind up. I tried all the .350 legend mags I could find so I gave gave up and sold all of my .350 stuff and now I distrust straight walled stuff. Bought half a dozen bottle necked barrels and they all work perfectly. Maybe be a fluke but I’m not putting my money on it.
Man that's frustrating. I've heard similar stories. Not sure how common this is, but it's definitely an issue to some extent for some people.
@@Thebiggamehuntingblog I think if I ever put together a deer hunting AR-15 I may go with something like the .300 hammer from Wilson combat. I claims to replicate 30-30 ballistics.
Junk it and get something reliable like one of the inexpensive Ruger bolt actions if you want to shoot those calibers. At least you'll have something fairly accurate and reliable. If you happen to hunt in Iowa see my long main comment.
I like the 4570.
But what is the difference of the 4570 and the 4590? Do they still make that cartridge and making that rifle? I know it's a 45 caliber over 90 butter. It's a longer casing, I know that much. But is it more effective than the 4517 and the 450 bushmaster? Ask you because you're seem very knowledgeable about everything you're saying and I have worked in a gun shop for about 10 years, and I applaud you with your information. It's been more than gracious. Thank you very much, yours, truly Ziggy.sigifredo Garcia 3.😊
I'm not aware of any company that makes 45-90 ammo and rifles right now. But yes, it can shoot the same weight bullet somewhat faster than the 45-70. As far as I know though, that cartridge was only produced in single shot rifles (like the Sharps), not "repeaters" like the 45-70. Glad you enjoyed the video!
If you're 450 BUSHMASTER has a 20in barrel on it. it will shoot a 250 GR bullet 2300 FPS.
Great video, very informative . Not ever planning on hunting water Buffalo.
Glad you enjoyed it!
If you reload, both are incredible bear stompers! 450 bush - 225 grain ftx loaded to 2495 fps = 3109 ft energy but I would load a 300 grain 4570 to max 2,424 fps for 3900 ft pounds for use in bear country. Levers are more reliable than semi auto....but hell I have never shot a griz but have shot a black bear..
Can the 45-70 be pushed to 4000 ft lbs from a lever gun?
One creator I asked, said he can get 4000+ ft lbs from the 45-70, but didn't give his recipe.
Interesting, I was considering a lever action in 454 Cassul that for deer and pig. Mainly using hot loaded 45LC and carrying the cassul for bear protection.
But then there is the 38-55
Thank you for this!!
Any time!
Several FYI's: 1. I didn't know SAAMI had raised the MAP for 45-70 to 28,000 psi. I have the latest SAAMI specs using the piezo electric transducer method and you are correct. With that in mind anyone shooting a trapdoor Springfield or Remington Rolling Block had better read the box on whatever factory ammo they're shooting! Prior to that all the major manufacturers kept their 45-70 loads to not over around 24,000 psi. 2. There is published loading data strictly for Ruger Number and Siamese Mauser 45-70 that can push a 400 grain jacketed bullet to over 2000 fps. That comes close to 458 Win Mag and should be plenty good for elk, moose, etc out to somewhat past 200 yards if you know how to sight your rifle and can handle the recoil. Pressures are as high as 50,000 psi. The Ruger Number 1 is not really very heavy with its medium sporter barrel. I think those really heavy load 45-70's in that one would be somewhat punishing to shoot but I don't have any experience with it. Even with standard loads the 1895 Marlin will get your attention. I do have experience with the the early 1970's 1895 both with factory and low and mid power hand loads. I also have a custom Siamese Mauser with a 24" heavy barrel. Even with the extra weight the super heavy loads still DEFINITELY get your attention. 3: Over two years ago Iowa changed it's deer hunting regulations. Those truly straight walled cased cartridges like 45-70 and 444 Marlin are no longer required. They have a minimum 35 caliber through but not over 50 cal and minimum energy requirement for both rifles and hand gun. Using their metric, 35 Remington, 358 Winchester, 35 Whelen and several others are legal. They have a list but state that their published list is not complete. They do include 350 Legend and 450 Bushmaster on their list. If you want to use a 30-30 or other similar powered cartridge that does not meet the minimum (I believe .350 ) bullet diameter regardless of energy and case shape, you're still SOL. To further complicate matters they now allow 223 Remington in AR's in certain zones during certain portions of their deer seasons. Check the Iowa DNR website for details. I'm a former Iowa resident from days long ago when it was shotguns with slugs only so I keep track of their regs in case I go up there to hunt with my relatives. They grow some big, heavy corn fed deer. Other Midwest states like Indiana and Illinois are changing too. Happy hunting boys and girls! 😄
illuminating. thank you..
Great video. Thank you
Glad you liked it!
I own a tiger no.1 450 bushmaster
But why?🥺
Why not?
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
All take the 444marlin
I own a lot of guns and have shot a lot of guns. I choose the 65 Creedmoor. I call it the laser beam. Nothing can touch it I don't know what it is. But again it's not anything to be compared to these
Profound
First yay lol
Boom!
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍