I love Pinot Noir! I did a wine tour through Oregon's Willamette Valley last summer and loved learning about the region. Super excited to learn more about wine!
"tilled soil"...a give away for me..I love, love the Old world terroir and how they seem to do their very best to include that in the wine. Made with love.
Oh boy, you had me just seeing the labels. Admittedly, Oregon Pinot Noir is my absolute favorite both by my palate and because I was born in the Willamette Valley. But Drouhin I’m partial to from both sides of the pond. I’ve had more from their Oregon varietals, but I’ve also had some Joseph Drouhin wines from France. Both are just so good. I haven’t lived in Oregon since before I was able to drink, but I work in television, and did a show back in 2006 in the area around Bend. The locals whose properties I shot gave me an engraved Laguiole wine tool, and a bottle of Domaine Drouhin Pinot Noir. It’s been my favorite ever since.
We were just at the Drouhin vineyard in Oregon and participated in the Burgundy vs Oregon Pinot tasting. They have a lovely vineyard and are very hospitable, be sure to make a reservation for the tasting and vineyard tour. Sure wish I had watched this video first. Thanks Madeline, love your blog, very informative.
Love this! I do blind tastings as well and my trouble is that I always second guess myself and overthink. Loved your video and your way of approaching the two wines. :)
I think that you were faced with a somewhat difficult test insofar as Willamette pinot is often the closest in profile all the New World pinots to the Cote D'Or. I suppose that's why Drouhin has a winery there. Really interesting comparison.
@Ryan Medeiros I disagree, there is broad diversity in Willamette valley points soil compositions and microclimates, as well as winemaker choices, and I like nothing better than Dundee Peat, or Jory as the locals call it
I love you're vids, I got a new job at Bouchon in Vegas French Bistro, I have no clue about french wines until I met you lol..My co workers recommend you , great decision I made. Lol..Keep it up:)
Very informative and your personality makes it even better! Personally Ive found that new world wine makers tend to talk a lot about terroir but it rarely comes through in their wines for me (it's mainly fruit forward) which is not necessarily a bad thing but I'm still trying to discern terroir variations in our US wines. Good job Madeleine, thank you!
Agreed, mostly it's more fruit and less terroir in the New World. But there are some areas in US ( and elsewhere) that show great terroir. For instance, try some good Pinot Noir from Russian Valley and let me know if you find a similar Pinot Noir anywhere else. I haven't :)
@@k-van9570 Yes! Russian River pinot noirs actually led me to a four day trip there three years ago (Guerneville) and I agree that some, such as William's Selyam and Gray Ferrell definitely have more of the earthy, mineral experience one might find in Cote D'or wines - I have visited Willamett Valley as well and although there are several excellent producers I would give the Russian River wines a higher ratings ,(of those I've tasted so far!) Cheers Keyvan!
Domain Drouhin is still harvesting their fruit at 22 brix yo produce "old world style" wines, our fruit is 24-25 brix and higher Ph 3.4 at harvest resulting in lower acid....drinkable sooner...Oregon winemaker and grower
This makes me think of the blind Rhone France vs Cali blind tasting I did recently.....so easy to get it wrong. "old world" doesn't always mean what you think it will. Vintage, style of grower, region, etc......I've had some 03 Burgs that I could have mistaken for domestic, since it was a such a hot ripe vintage. very interesting
I live in the Willamette Valley and I work with a lot of wine. I've had Drouhin many times and am very familiar with the wines in our region, so it was funny to me that on the color and your notes on the nose of each that it seemed pretty obvious to me which were which. It's a shame that Oregon Pinot doesn't come out as rich and earthy as old world wine can. I'd love to see you do more Oregon wine comparisons!
I think that with experience time Oregon wine will be the best in the US. The soil and climate doesn't lie. Burgundy has almost 900 years of wine making. What this Oregon wine has already achieved is stunning ! I am looking for Oregon wines here in France. I can't find any. It's a shame. I will order some by internet.
please help Madeleine- Ive been a certified somm for about 3 years now and find myself now working with stellar prestige wine only from two regions of France (Bordeaux and Burgundy). I opened an old vine Rothchild that I called brickish and turned. The old men in the room called me ignorant and went on to enjoy the decanted bottle. I have a case of Burgundy Echezeau by Henri Jayer 1995 that Id love to decant and have something nice to say about. How does one offer an extremely rare wine that maybe was held too long but make sound amazing anyway?
Wish you would do more from Canada. We have some fabulous wineries up here. Black Hills from BC for their Note Bene, Syrah and Alibi. Bachelder from Niagara for Pinot Noir and Chardonnay (you may recognize Thomas Bachelder’s name from Oregon. Also Thirty Bench from Niagara for Rielsling and Cab Franc.
Heya! There are not a lot of Pinot producers in Washington because the climate is a lot different (they grow mostly on the dry, hot, sunny, east side!). That being said, I've heard that Charles Smith's new brand winesofsubstance.com/ will release a Pinot from an undisclosed special vineyard. If I were to grow Pinot in Washington, I'd look to the Puget Sound area or possibly Columbia Gorge or right along the border by Okanagan, BC. I don't see anything about it on the site yet though!
@@winefolly I was hoping that maybe SW Washington would have a new vineyard or two that might be successful.... that's ok. Washington makes ather great wine varietals.
my wine drinking profile notes just went to varsity level... I am definitely using your "stem inclusion" note on future tastings (because only you would be able to argue my point, right?) ;)
Old world wine is bunch of many other European countries than the three she mentioned. It's a pity that she skipped Austria, Portugal, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania just to name a few but there are certainly others too. Other than that it's a great video and I love Wine Folly! ☺
She’s so much fun! Pinot is definitely one of my main go to’s. I stick to California Pinots. Just cheaper and delicious. But for special occasions, I’ll bust out some old world goodies.
most people simply don't have a palate that can pick all the nuances of wines. That's why no matter how smart you are, most of us can never be a sommelier. In the end, we can like a $15 bottle of wine more so than a $50 bottle. Rudy Kurniawan was a scam artist who sold 20 million worth of ordinary wine as rare vintage before he was caught.
Rudy Kirwan scammed people on D.R.C. (Domaine Romanee Conti) the most expensive wine in the world. Grand cru red burgundy. Most of them would be a fool to open those bottles unless it had proper bottle age otherwise its a waste. Many people I know that have this wine will not touch it unless it has 20-25 years of bottle time, the wine is capable of being aged far longer. That being said most people buy that wine to lay down... there is a good chance a lot of them did not drink the wine. Mr Roc, people who can afford to purchase that wine (counterfeit or not) are typically no dummies.
Richard Roc If you follow Madeline’s methodical looking, smelling, tasting, and thinking method, you can slowly train yourself to become a much more discerning wine taster. It doesn’t have anything to do with being “smart”. It has everything to do with being very observant (take notes - it really focuses your attention on the details that matter). It’s about experience, and learning from each experience. Madeline has laid out a simple, but methodical regimen to follow each time, and she even sells little tasting note books to help you to stay consistent in your methodology each time. Don’t sell yourself short. There are amazing wines at $50 and less. Not so many at $15 and under, although there are good ones, and the odd gem occasionally pops up.
Super cool! I learned a lot, like pay attention to your tastebuds to notice subtleties. Q: You don’t cleanse your palette between tastings. Why not? And, how do you feel about letting wine breathe a bit after opening? Also, some people pour so carefully. Does it make a difference to you? Subscribed.
In principle I like her channel, but regarding to Pinot Noir the old world is a little bit different. Spain almost not producing Pinot Noir at all and in Italy Pinot Noir production is mainly limited to Alto Adige (Südtirol). If she is referring to the old world regarding Pinot Noir, France (burgundy) is of course in the first place, but Germany, Austria and Switzerland are countries where almost 50% of the red wine is produced by Pinot Noir. In this case only the name is different (like Spätburgurder).
Thanks for the comment Kai, I think this video is specifically about Burg and Oregon - I'm extrapolating a bit here, but it sounds like you are very familiar with where Pinot Noir grows in Europe, which probably also means you're a bit of an enthusiast with Pinot? To your statement about "old world" I would say that I use this statement as a sweeping broad stroke because the term is actually a bit nebulous if you really get into it. Obviously I know that Pinot grows in limited areas (like Oltrepo Pavese in Italy!) but when a beginner approaches this topic it's easier to go broad stroke, to less broad stroke, to small stroke. Perhaps I should get some producers to send me pinot from more places and we can do more tastings at a geekier level. ;)
@@winefolly Would love to see you doing a comparison of the Austrian pinots, like the Wienenger, vs. Oregon. That would be fascinating. They make some lovely pinots.
I’m suuuuper new to wine, and I’m really proud of myself for seeing the title and already guessing which two wines would be in the video. Then again, about 90% of the wine in my collection is from either Domaine Drouhin or Joseph Drouhin, so I might be biased.
well, they're really close in price. I think the Bourg was 55 and the Oregon is 40 - and in terms of winemaking and viticulture, they are very similar.
We can do this with logic right here and now: if we follow where wine originally spread from it's origin place in Caucasus Mountains / Eastern Anatolia then we can see how it spread into the areas around the Mediterranean long before the Dutch colonized South Africa. So, for that logic it's new world. HOWEVER, South Africa has some uniquely old world attributes given the rise of Constantia in the exact same time period as Europe was getting its wine stride (1600-1700s). So, the choice is yours depending on what logic you prefer. Do you pick the spread of Vitis vinifera (wine grapes) or the foundation of modern winemaking which happened in Europe and South Africa in the 1700s? To me, both logical proofs work. So, South Africa is both new world and old world at the same time.
You definitely will not get bergamot in Drouhin 2015, and highly unlikely that you will get savory aroma from such a young wine, unless maybe the bottle is badly stored.
I love this video. I must have the pallet of a Neanderthal. I can not pull out those flavor profiles like she can. ... Me drink wine. Me like.. Me drink more.
I would really like to do this comparisn too. Sadly i can't find any Oregon Pinot Noir over here in Germany. Listen up Yanks, don't drink all the good stuff yourself, got that!?😎
Keyvan Kalani thats not completely true. England would not be considered an old wine producing area by most. As climate change makes it more possible to produce wines in more northern regions Scandinavian countries are experimenting with wine making and they too could not be described as old world in the wine sense but are definitely part of European new world of wine. Ps Lebanon is also often considered part of the old world of wine and it is not a European country. Just more proof you can't make generalisations in wine...
@@edwardblacklock2446 you are right, I did generalise The Old World. But for sake of comprehension, it's a lot easier to grasp than the way it was presented here. There are some countries that recently started mass scale production for commercial purposes in Europe that are considered "New World Wines", although they could have a long history of wine making, like Armenia or Georgia. England and Russia have been making great sparkling wines (among mostly bad wines :) for quite some time now as well, but are of course considered "New World Wines". I just discovered that Finland produces sparkling wine, which is crazy. Not very good though I would imagine.
Old world vs new world is an old tired, and deflated comparison. A game for somm trainees. Burgundy is producing PN that can taste like something from Leyda in Chile, and Willamette is constantly changing to align to Burgundy, which is themselves dealing with climate-changed fruit. Pinot noir can be marvelous from anywhere now, including [California - mon dieu!] as in the last ten years. Time to move on.
Gevrey-Chambertin : "savory and bergamote" on the nose ??????? So first of all, bergamote is not a note that you can have in Burgundy Pinot noir. No way !! It's a citrus fruit, with an expression citrus/floral smell. And this bergamote smell is not part of any wine smell (as far as I checked the latest classification). And smelling a Grevrey-Chambertin from Drouhin and saying "savory" is a lack of understanding of the region. It must be right away dark cherry. It's from Cote de Nuit where the primary smell will be the dark/black cherry (in opposition with the red cherry in Cote de Beaune). And for a 2015 vintage, it's too young for savory smell, which will be in the "empyreumatique" chart ish. Perhaps some "mint" flavor, because of the youngness of the wine. And the legs for the Gevrey-Chambertin are perhaps more "normal" than the PN from Oregon. And certainly not high alcohol for a 2015 vintage. Concerning the extraction, I think that was for the fun, but Drouhin is not well known for high extraction. Go with Rapet or Dugat-Py, you will have a bit more extraction. Anyway, same producer, great. But 2 different terroir. Oregon as what, 100 years maximum of terroir. When gevrey-Chambertain has 1000 years of history. And the most well known one is with the Abbaye de Bèze, who created the Clos de Bèze in 630 AC.
Sometimes is necessary open your mind and taste more wines! Of course you can find Bergamote even if it is not in any technical flavor... You should read this article in Decanter Magazine.
@@MarciaAnholeti Let's start like this video : I am French, I spend my last 6 years in France in Burgundy, studied wines, sold wine and drunk wines.From 5€ to 5,000€. I have a Burgundy wine certification and WSET Level 3. I can be a certified sommelier too. But I hate customers who do not follow the advice of a sommelier, so I didn't pass the exam for that reason. And that don't bring anything at the end too. Experience does better. During my 6 years in Burgundy, I met most of the best producers. And I am in the wine business since 2006, and since 2011 in the USA, managing over 12 states. I did 3 harvests (2 in Burgundy, 1 in South Africa at Klein Constantia where I spend 6 weeks). I did spend time in Tuscany and Piedmont too. So questioning the fact that I should have an open mind is irrelevant. And then, if you spend the same amount of time in Burgundy, you will learn there is not bergamote aroma in Pinot Noir from Burgundy. That is just a fact. Now if you want to believe this, this is fine. But I think I have enough experience about Burgundy to say what I did say. Now let's be factual : Bergamot : it's a orange. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergamot_orange) Aromas in the wine : Mainly, the bergamot aroma is present in muscat family grapes (if detectable). Not in a red grape with white juice. (socialvignerons.com/2018/05/08/top-100-aromas-in-wine-a-to-z/#prettyPhoto) Decanter explained clearly where you can find bergamot in Pinot Noir, and they are not from Burgundy (www.decanter.com/learn/advice/understand-tasting-notes-decoded-344920/) Different clones, different terroirs and potentially different industrial yeast used. (more probably). So yes you can give some aromas to the wines at anytime Here all the products you can add into the winemaking process : www.predel.com/-Oenology-.html And finally, here a brochure who explained the aromas form Burgundy wines. Made by the Burgundy Wine office : www.bourgogne-wines.com/shop/gallery_files/site/12881/13105/13236.pdf So, I'm very open minded, but I have a good wine background, a good palate and I just don't like wrong informations who will mislead the consumers. That being said, enjoy your wine anyway. :)
Hiya Marcheur. We're talking comparisons here in 2 pinot noir wines. Telling me I don't smell Bergamot seems a bit silly. We're talking about many different aromatic compound groups all mulling together. Citrus / floral can easily go to the tea-bergamot area of smells especially in red wines. Savory is in reference to non-fruit smells being the primary aromas, which, compared to the Oregon Pinot Noir, is true. So... we could argue a bit more on the topic, as I'm sure you have a lot of information on Bourgogne based on your wealth of experience. But, telling me what I smell is folly.
Marcheur de Planète Her tasting, her mind, her words! Who are wrong? Could you tell that some one is wrong when find “childhood” in a glass of wine??? I work with wine 20 years and all the time I listen different opinions... Every mind is a sentence! By the way I studied a lot too... I’m WSET3 with 100, FWS and Fisar... All those certificates don’t mean that I’m better than others... I just learn a little bit more! Also I really don’t remember how many harvest I have done all those years... Let’s be less “king” of the world and accept others professionals “tasting notes”. Peace!
@@winefolly I guess you can be a certified whatever, but again you should read my comment before. Go in Burgundy and talk with local producers and you will see. They will think you are a crazy American !! Just a fact, there is not bergamot in Pinot Noir from Burgundy. Citrus and Floral are two different spectrum of the aromas. And the citrus is on the fruit side, not the floral side. Like when people are confusing 95% of the time "fruity" and "sweet" in the US market. Ans savory a primary aroma ?? I guess you miss the lesson that day. here a summary : Primary aromas in wine are qualities our noses detect that are characteristic of the to the grape variety used to make the wine. These aromas can be fruity, herbal and vegetal, and floral. source : winescribble.com/primary-aromas-in-wine/ Savory : These wines will not have prominent fruit characteristics like berries, jam, cherry, apples, pears, etc. Instead, savory wines will present more earthy character like mushrooms and wet earth (Pinot Noir), or bell pepper, rosemary, and licorice (Cabernet Franc and Cabernet Sauvignon). (source : www.winefrog.com/definition/1172/savory) Definition : the taste sensation that is produced by several amino acids and nucleotides (such as glutamate and aspartate) and has a rich or meaty flavor characteristic of cheese, cooked meat, mushrooms, soy, and ripe tomatoes : UMAMI Source : www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/savory but again, your Gevrey-Chambertin is not old enough to have mushrooms aromas. The primary aromas will be for sure : black cherry, red currant, raspberry. But again, if you want to smell bergamot in Pinot Noir from Burgundy, and savory in a young Pinot Noir from Burgundy, your choice. I just think it's silly. Especially when you have (potentially) no idea of the wine region, the village itself and the real identity of Burgundy Pinot Noir. Again, 6 years living there, and never heard about that ever. But for sure, American want to teach us how we do wine and how we should smell them. Great. You should do a video on Mega Purple an Big Red, and explain to your consumers how the wine below $15 are Madde, and how is easy to create what ever the aromas you want. That will be interesting and very educative.
Keep trying .... They are making some incredible wines. Different style from French (which I prefer) but there are some nice ones coming out of Oregon.
Elle me fatigue avec ses propos de sommelière non constructif, puis cette manière de déguster CE N’EST PAS UN BAIN DE BOUCHE, et pour finir ce fameux « aaaahhh » quand elle avale...
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks! Always informative and fun-and this is an experiment I’ve been planning to do myself. More, please!
Thank you!!!
I love Pinot Noir! I did a wine tour through Oregon's Willamette Valley last summer and loved learning about the region. Super excited to learn more about wine!
Sounds fantastic! Cheers :)
"tilled soil"...a give away for me..I love, love the Old world terroir and how they seem to do their very best to include that in the wine. Made with love.
To heck with the wine. Who is the fabulous artist responsible for the masterpiece over the wine rack?
That'd be Olivia. All 4 years of her. My partner's kiddo!
Oh boy, you had me just seeing the labels. Admittedly, Oregon Pinot Noir is my absolute favorite both by my palate and because I was born in the Willamette Valley. But Drouhin I’m partial to from both sides of the pond. I’ve had more from their Oregon varietals, but I’ve also had some Joseph Drouhin wines from France. Both are just so good. I haven’t lived in Oregon since before I was able to drink, but I work in television, and did a show back in 2006 in the area around Bend. The locals whose properties I shot gave me an engraved Laguiole wine tool, and a bottle of Domaine Drouhin Pinot Noir. It’s been my favorite ever since.
We were just at the Drouhin vineyard in Oregon and participated in the Burgundy vs Oregon Pinot tasting. They have a lovely vineyard and are very hospitable, be sure to make a reservation for the tasting and vineyard tour. Sure wish I had watched this video first. Thanks Madeline, love your blog, very informative.
Just bought your book through Amazon. Very informative and the artwork is great! An easy take on a complex drink.
Love this! I do blind tastings as well and my trouble is that I always second guess myself and overthink. Loved your video and your way of approaching the two wines. :)
❤️ You're so much fun!! I'm learning so much from your channel!!
I think that you were faced with a somewhat difficult test insofar as Willamette pinot is often the closest in profile all the New World pinots to the Cote D'Or. I suppose that's why Drouhin has a winery there. Really interesting comparison.
They sure do! Worth investigating!
I blind taste all the time and often get confused on what is old and new world.
@Ryan Medeiros I disagree, there is broad diversity in Willamette valley points soil compositions and microclimates, as well as winemaker choices, and I like nothing better than Dundee Peat, or Jory as the locals call it
This is awesome. I always have no idea what to say when people ask me what I think of wine! Thanks for the info.
She's a character and good at this for sure.........a lot of fun with it and informative.
Wow, my husband just said the same thing about her!
I love your channel and I continue to learn and enjoy wine more and more
Loved watching this and got a new subscriber out of me. Can’t wait to watch the other videos and see what else is to come!
Great explanation throughout!! Old World vs New World, color, taste.
She has a very informal way of speaking
I love you're vids, I got a new job at Bouchon in Vegas French Bistro, I have no clue about french wines until I met you lol..My co workers recommend you , great decision I made. Lol..Keep it up:)
Wow! Keep on spreading the good word on wine!
Madeline is very charming. Makes the videos so much more entertaining. Thanks for the good videos.
Glad you like them!
Where did you get the wine glasses???
I get the sense that the presenter was already a few glasses into each bottle before doing the video. :-)
Fun video to watch though.
Definitely! I loved every second 😂
That's just her style dude!
If you aren't having fun..................
Hi Madeline. Where do shop online for wines please ? Thanks.
Very informative and your personality makes it even better! Personally Ive found that new world wine makers tend to talk a lot about terroir but it rarely comes through in their wines for me (it's mainly fruit forward) which is not necessarily a bad thing but I'm still trying to discern terroir variations in our US wines.
Good job Madeleine, thank you!
Agreed, mostly it's more fruit and less terroir in the New World. But there are some areas in US ( and elsewhere) that show great terroir. For instance, try some good Pinot Noir from Russian Valley and let me know if you find a similar Pinot Noir anywhere else. I haven't :)
@@k-van9570 Yes! Russian River pinot noirs actually led me to a four day trip there three years ago (Guerneville) and I agree that some, such as William's Selyam and Gray Ferrell definitely have more of the earthy, mineral experience one might find in Cote D'or wines - I have visited Willamett Valley as well and although there are several excellent producers I would give the Russian River wines a higher ratings ,(of those I've tasted so far!)
Cheers Keyvan!
Domain Drouhin is still harvesting their fruit at 22 brix yo produce "old world style" wines, our fruit is 24-25 brix and higher Ph 3.4 at harvest resulting in lower acid....drinkable sooner...Oregon winemaker and grower
STEVE O'NEILL love this comment. Thanks for adding your note!!!
This makes me think of the blind Rhone France vs Cali blind tasting I did recently.....so easy to get it wrong. "old world" doesn't always mean what you think it will. Vintage, style of grower, region, etc......I've had some 03 Burgs that I could have mistaken for domestic, since it was a such a hot ripe vintage.
very interesting
Great video love you energy and your information.
what do you recommend for for semi-sweet wine red wine
Ive been on a burgundy binge lately. I enjoy a pinot noir but their chardonnays are so different. Also dont get me started with chablis!
I was excited to look up the Charmes Chambertin - 2015 - Domaine Joseph Drouhin but oh boy that price tag... Some saving is in order.
You have an amazing sniffer. I wish I could identify all that from putting my nose in the glass. 😊😊
I live in the Willamette Valley and I work with a lot of wine. I've had Drouhin many times and am very familiar with the wines in our region, so it was funny to me that on the color and your notes on the nose of each that it seemed pretty obvious to me which were which. It's a shame that Oregon Pinot doesn't come out as rich and earthy as old world wine can. I'd love to see you do more Oregon wine comparisons!
Some can be. The first time I had Rex Hill, I got tons of secondary on the noise and it was a recent vintage.
I think that with experience time Oregon wine will be the best in the US. The soil and climate doesn't lie. Burgundy has almost 900 years of wine making. What this Oregon wine has already achieved is stunning ! I am looking for Oregon wines here in France. I can't find any. It's a shame. I will order some by internet.
True Burgundy is never "rich and earthy" unless it's Pommard. The real Burgundy is ELEGANT!
You are awesome - love the energy! We need a West Coast wine podcast - Cali to the OK. You would be perfect for the host!
please help Madeleine- Ive been a certified somm for about 3 years now and find myself now working with stellar prestige wine only from two regions of France (Bordeaux and Burgundy). I opened an old vine Rothchild that I called brickish and turned. The old men in the room called me ignorant and went on to enjoy the decanted bottle. I have a case of Burgundy Echezeau by Henri Jayer 1995 that Id love to decant and have something nice to say about.
How does one offer an extremely rare wine that maybe was held too long but make sound amazing anyway?
Wish you would do more from Canada. We have some fabulous wineries up here. Black Hills from BC for their Note Bene, Syrah and Alibi. Bachelder from Niagara for Pinot Noir and Chardonnay (you may recognize Thomas Bachelder’s name from Oregon. Also Thirty Bench from Niagara for Rielsling and Cab Franc.
Canada makes great wines. We've covered Okanagan on the blog!
Have you found any good wineries in Washington that produce a good pinot noir?
Also what is the best AVA in Oregon that produces that grape?
Heya! There are not a lot of Pinot producers in Washington because the climate is a lot different (they grow mostly on the dry, hot, sunny, east side!). That being said, I've heard that Charles Smith's new brand winesofsubstance.com/ will release a Pinot from an undisclosed special vineyard. If I were to grow Pinot in Washington, I'd look to the Puget Sound area or possibly Columbia Gorge or right along the border by Okanagan, BC.
I don't see anything about it on the site yet though!
@@winefolly I was hoping that maybe SW Washington would have a new vineyard or two that might be successful.... that's ok. Washington makes ather great wine varietals.
my wine drinking profile notes just went to varsity level... I am definitely using your "stem inclusion" note on future tastings (because only you would be able to argue my point, right?) ;)
Fun! informative! Very refreshing approach..
In the industry myself 18 years really enjoy your channel keep up the good work Cheers 🍷🍷
Rick Moro 😊 TY for saying so!
Your natural presentation Tempo and dynamics are AWESOME! Clear & Fluid....
Were those bottles from the domaine Drouhin? Cheers!
Love the video. But I couldn’t understand what you said for the first scent note on the second wine... I’m sure you didn’t say what I heard...
Maybe she meant it smelled of ammonia.
You know your stuff. Sounds like you have experience in vineyards as well
Great videos but please tell the price in future videos.
Very nice explanation. Fun
love the art, by who? and what is in that WINE FOLLY Box?
Oregon pinot I think are more tannic
So was i....great descriptors... and tonight is my wine Wed
Gorgeous explanation
great vid as always Maddie
Thank you Tony! :) :)
Old world wine is bunch of many other European countries than the three she mentioned. It's a pity that she skipped Austria, Portugal, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania just to name a few but there are certainly others too. Other than that it's a great video and I love Wine Folly! ☺
You should add your subscribe link in the description below.
Maison Drouhin Beaune(FRANCE) and Oregon
She’s so much fun! Pinot is definitely one of my main go to’s. I stick to California Pinots. Just cheaper and delicious. But for special occasions, I’ll bust out some old world goodies.
most people simply don't have a palate that can pick all the nuances of wines. That's why no matter how smart you are, most of us can never be a sommelier. In the end, we can like a $15 bottle of wine more so than a $50 bottle. Rudy Kurniawan was a scam artist who sold 20 million worth of ordinary
wine as rare vintage before he was caught.
Rudy Kirwan scammed people on D.R.C. (Domaine Romanee Conti) the most expensive wine in the world. Grand cru red burgundy. Most of them would be a fool to open those bottles unless it had proper bottle age otherwise its a waste. Many people I know that have this wine will not touch it unless it has 20-25 years of bottle time, the wine is capable of being aged far longer. That being said most people buy that wine to lay down... there is a good chance a lot of them did not drink the wine. Mr Roc, people who can afford to purchase that wine (counterfeit or not) are typically no dummies.
and if you don't enjoy a 50 bottle of wine more than a 15 bottle of wine... you are buying from the wrong person!
Richard Roc If you follow Madeline’s methodical looking, smelling, tasting, and thinking method, you can slowly train yourself to become a much more discerning wine taster. It doesn’t have anything to do with being “smart”. It has everything to do with being very observant (take notes - it really focuses your attention on the details that matter). It’s about experience, and learning from each experience. Madeline has laid out a simple, but methodical regimen to follow each time, and she even sells little tasting note books to help you to stay consistent in your methodology each time. Don’t sell yourself short. There are amazing wines at $50 and less. Not so many at $15 and under, although there are good ones, and the odd gem occasionally pops up.
Confusion? This is how Pinot Noir is supposed to taste! This wine asks more questions as he is willing to answer!
Great comparison!
Super cool! I learned a lot, like pay attention to your tastebuds to notice subtleties. Q: You don’t cleanse your palette between tastings. Why not? And, how do you feel about letting wine breathe a bit after opening? Also, some people pour so carefully. Does it make a difference to you? Subscribed.
Make sure to spit even though it's Gevrey Chambertin. Great clip 👌
I’ll take a Louis Jadot 2015 any day. Hands down
I like a Pinot noir. But my favorite is a Spaniard Bordeaux. 😀🍇🍷
The best Pinot I've had was a Napa, from ZD wines.
I have heard that Oregon climate is very close to Burgundy!
omg. yes. They have different soils, but there are similarities galore. No wonder several Burgundians set up wineries there!
Awesome channel!
Yay! Love this video Madeleine
Wine Folly is excellent
In principle I like her channel, but regarding to Pinot Noir the old world is a little bit different. Spain almost not producing Pinot Noir at all and in Italy Pinot Noir production is mainly limited to Alto Adige (Südtirol). If she is referring to the old world regarding Pinot Noir, France (burgundy) is of course in the first place, but Germany, Austria and Switzerland are countries where almost 50% of the red wine is produced by Pinot Noir. In this case only the name is different (like Spätburgurder).
Thanks for the comment Kai, I think this video is specifically about Burg and Oregon - I'm extrapolating a bit here, but it sounds like you are very familiar with where Pinot Noir grows in Europe, which probably also means you're a bit of an enthusiast with Pinot?
To your statement about "old world" I would say that I use this statement as a sweeping broad stroke because the term is actually a bit nebulous if you really get into it. Obviously I know that Pinot grows in limited areas (like Oltrepo Pavese in Italy!) but when a beginner approaches this topic it's easier to go broad stroke, to less broad stroke, to small stroke.
Perhaps I should get some producers to send me pinot from more places and we can do more tastings at a geekier level. ;)
@@winefolly Would love to see you doing a comparison of the Austrian pinots, like the Wienenger, vs. Oregon. That would be fascinating. They make some lovely pinots.
Simply love it.
Bravo 🎊 from France !
ID VIN SCHOOL 🏫❤️ 🇫🇷 🍷
did u go to the Piper Blush school of You tube videos?
Please Sauvignon Blanc Challenge!
I’m suuuuper new to wine, and I’m really proud of myself for seeing the title and already guessing which two wines would be in the video. Then again, about 90% of the wine in my collection is from either Domaine Drouhin or Joseph Drouhin, so I might be biased.
Well done .. and fun. Must say tho, I've pretty much given up on west coast pinot .... far too many taste like cola and cotton candy.
Good video.
Sometimes Oregon, sometimes Burgundy... depends on the mood :)
I love pinot noirs
If they were wines in the same price range it would have been really easy to tell the difference, not really fair spending 3x more on the burgundy
well, they're really close in price. I think the Bourg was 55 and the Oregon is 40 - and in terms of winemaking and viticulture, they are very similar.
@@winefolly sounds like a great deal then, will have to pick some up😀
Looks like it's really difficult :D
Find out if South Africa is old world or new world .
We can do this with logic right here and now: if we follow where wine originally spread from it's origin place in Caucasus Mountains / Eastern Anatolia then we can see how it spread into the areas around the Mediterranean long before the Dutch colonized South Africa. So, for that logic it's new world. HOWEVER, South Africa has some uniquely old world attributes given the rise of Constantia in the exact same time period as Europe was getting its wine stride (1600-1700s). So, the choice is yours depending on what logic you prefer.
Do you pick the spread of Vitis vinifera (wine grapes) or the foundation of modern winemaking which happened in Europe and South Africa in the 1700s?
To me, both logical proofs work. So, South Africa is both new world and old world at the same time.
@@winefolly satisfied follower from me that's a good insight . I hope you not thinking I was being spiteful I'm just seeking info
@@winefolly Excellent explanation!! New World ......
Good and informative...
Hello. Old world must include Portugal that by the way has much better wines than Spain.
Norberto Reis Portuguese wine is awesome and offers amazing value for money!
You definitely will not get bergamot in Drouhin 2015, and highly unlikely that you will get savory aroma from such a young wine, unless maybe the bottle is badly stored.
I do the ahhhhhhhhh thing too but not to test the alcohol level.
AHahahahahahahahah. you just made me smile super wide :)
Cute video. Keep drinking!
3-rd time I see someone tasting the wine like is mouthwash hahahahahhaa!
Too fancy for words
watching you make me want to know more abt wine. Btw I respect someone who can dance move their neck
I love this video. I must have the pallet of a Neanderthal. I can not pull out those flavor profiles like she can. ... Me drink wine. Me like.. Me drink more.
came for the wine and the main thing I learned is that you're married...lol
Rtee723 classic facepalm 🤦♀️
I would really like to do this comparisn too. Sadly i can't find any Oregon Pinot Noir over here in Germany. Listen up Yanks, don't drink all the good stuff yourself, got that!?😎
Do it with something from Ahr!!! :) :)
Just to clarify. The Old world is the whole Europe and everywhere outside Europe is the New world.
Keyvan Kalani thats not completely true. England would not be considered an old wine producing area by most. As climate change makes it more possible to produce wines in more northern regions Scandinavian countries are experimenting with wine making and they too could not be described as old world in the wine sense but are definitely part of European new world of wine.
Ps Lebanon is also often considered part of the old world of wine and it is not a European country. Just more proof you can't make generalisations in wine...
@@edwardblacklock2446 you are right, I did generalise The Old World. But for sake of comprehension, it's a lot easier to grasp than the way it was presented here. There are some countries that recently started mass scale production for commercial purposes in Europe that are considered "New World Wines", although they could have a long history of wine making, like Armenia or Georgia. England and Russia have been making great sparkling wines (among mostly bad wines :) for quite some time now as well, but are of course considered "New World Wines". I just discovered that Finland produces sparkling wine, which is crazy. Not very good though I would imagine.
Love
This dawg over here 😂
Old world vs new world is an old tired, and deflated comparison. A game for somm trainees. Burgundy is producing PN that can taste like something from Leyda in Chile, and Willamette is constantly changing to align to Burgundy, which is themselves dealing with climate-changed fruit. Pinot noir can be marvelous from anywhere now, including [California - mon dieu!] as in the last ten years. Time to move on.
New world over extracts
Gevrey-Chambertin : "savory and bergamote" on the nose ???????
So first of all, bergamote is not a note that you can have in Burgundy Pinot noir. No way !! It's a citrus fruit, with an expression citrus/floral smell. And this bergamote smell is not part of any wine smell (as far as I checked the latest classification).
And smelling a Grevrey-Chambertin from Drouhin and saying "savory" is a lack of understanding of the region. It must be right away dark cherry. It's from Cote de Nuit where the primary smell will be the dark/black cherry (in opposition with the red cherry in Cote de Beaune).
And for a 2015 vintage, it's too young for savory smell, which will be in the "empyreumatique" chart ish. Perhaps some "mint" flavor, because of the youngness of the wine.
And the legs for the Gevrey-Chambertin are perhaps more "normal" than the PN from Oregon. And certainly not high alcohol for a 2015 vintage.
Concerning the extraction, I think that was for the fun, but Drouhin is not well known for high extraction.
Go with Rapet or Dugat-Py, you will have a bit more extraction.
Anyway, same producer, great. But 2 different terroir.
Oregon as what, 100 years maximum of terroir. When gevrey-Chambertain has 1000 years of history. And the most well known one is with the Abbaye de Bèze, who created the Clos de Bèze in 630 AC.
Sometimes is necessary open your mind and taste more wines! Of course you can find Bergamote even if it is not in any technical flavor... You should read this article in Decanter Magazine.
@@MarciaAnholeti Let's start like this video : I am French, I spend my last 6 years in France in Burgundy, studied wines, sold wine and drunk wines.From 5€ to 5,000€.
I have a Burgundy wine certification and WSET Level 3. I can be a certified sommelier too. But I hate customers who do not follow the advice of a sommelier, so I didn't pass the exam for that reason. And that don't bring anything at the end too. Experience does better.
During my 6 years in Burgundy, I met most of the best producers. And I am in the wine business since 2006, and since 2011 in the USA, managing over 12 states.
I did 3 harvests (2 in Burgundy, 1 in South Africa at Klein Constantia where I spend 6 weeks). I did spend time in Tuscany and Piedmont too.
So questioning the fact that I should have an open mind is irrelevant.
And then, if you spend the same amount of time in Burgundy, you will learn there is not bergamote aroma in Pinot Noir from Burgundy. That is just a fact.
Now if you want to believe this, this is fine. But I think I have enough experience about Burgundy to say what I did say.
Now let's be factual :
Bergamot : it's a orange. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergamot_orange)
Aromas in the wine : Mainly, the bergamot aroma is present in muscat family grapes (if detectable).
Not in a red grape with white juice. (socialvignerons.com/2018/05/08/top-100-aromas-in-wine-a-to-z/#prettyPhoto)
Decanter explained clearly where you can find bergamot in Pinot Noir, and they are not from Burgundy (www.decanter.com/learn/advice/understand-tasting-notes-decoded-344920/)
Different clones, different terroirs and potentially different industrial yeast used. (more probably). So yes you can give some aromas to the wines at anytime
Here all the products you can add into the winemaking process : www.predel.com/-Oenology-.html
And finally, here a brochure who explained the aromas form Burgundy wines. Made by the Burgundy Wine office : www.bourgogne-wines.com/shop/gallery_files/site/12881/13105/13236.pdf
So, I'm very open minded, but I have a good wine background, a good palate and I just don't like wrong informations who will mislead the consumers.
That being said, enjoy your wine anyway. :)
Hiya Marcheur. We're talking comparisons here in 2 pinot noir wines. Telling me I don't smell Bergamot seems a bit silly. We're talking about many different aromatic compound groups all mulling together. Citrus / floral can easily go to the tea-bergamot area of smells especially in red wines. Savory is in reference to non-fruit smells being the primary aromas, which, compared to the Oregon Pinot Noir, is true. So... we could argue a bit more on the topic, as I'm sure you have a lot of information on Bourgogne based on your wealth of experience. But, telling me what I smell is folly.
Marcheur de Planète
Her tasting, her mind, her words! Who are wrong? Could you tell that some one is wrong when find “childhood” in a glass of wine??? I work with wine 20 years and all the time I listen different opinions... Every mind is a sentence! By the way I studied a lot too... I’m WSET3 with 100, FWS and Fisar... All those certificates don’t mean that I’m better than others... I just learn a little bit more! Also I really don’t remember how many harvest I have done all those years... Let’s be less “king” of the world and accept others professionals “tasting notes”. Peace!
@@winefolly I guess you can be a certified whatever, but again you should read my comment before. Go in Burgundy and talk with local producers and you will see. They will think you are a crazy American !! Just a fact, there is not bergamot in Pinot Noir from Burgundy.
Citrus and Floral are two different spectrum of the aromas. And the citrus is on the fruit side, not the floral side.
Like when people are confusing 95% of the time "fruity" and "sweet" in the US market.
Ans savory a primary aroma ?? I guess you miss the lesson that day.
here a summary : Primary aromas in wine are qualities our noses detect that are characteristic of the to the grape variety used to make the wine. These aromas can be fruity, herbal and vegetal, and floral.
source : winescribble.com/primary-aromas-in-wine/
Savory : These wines will not have prominent fruit characteristics like berries, jam, cherry, apples, pears, etc. Instead, savory wines will present more earthy character like mushrooms and wet earth (Pinot Noir), or bell pepper, rosemary, and licorice (Cabernet Franc and Cabernet Sauvignon). (source : www.winefrog.com/definition/1172/savory)
Definition : the taste sensation that is produced by several amino acids and nucleotides (such as glutamate and aspartate) and has a rich or meaty flavor characteristic of cheese, cooked meat, mushrooms, soy, and ripe tomatoes : UMAMI
Source : www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/savory
but again, your Gevrey-Chambertin is not old enough to have mushrooms aromas. The primary aromas will be for sure : black cherry, red currant, raspberry.
But again, if you want to smell bergamot in Pinot Noir from Burgundy, and savory in a young Pinot Noir from Burgundy, your choice. I just think it's silly. Especially when you have (potentially) no idea of the wine region, the village itself and the real identity of Burgundy Pinot Noir. Again, 6 years living there, and never heard about that ever.
But for sure, American want to teach us how we do wine and how we should smell them. Great.
You should do a video on Mega Purple an Big Red, and explain to your consumers how the wine below $15 are Madde, and how is easy to create what ever the aromas you want. That will be interesting and very educative.
Confusing video and/or test method 😰 Why not have a true blind taste test with black glasses??
French wines the best in the world 🍷🍷🍷🍷
Joseph swan
Never had a good oregon wine
I mean, eveningland has been blowing my socks off lately. For example
Keep trying .... They are making some incredible wines. Different style from French (which I prefer) but there are some nice ones coming out of Oregon.
nr2 New nr 1 old
I don't think that this was a real challenge because you have always the chance to look at the label at the back.
Some tricks, not a little bit of tricks.
I now am expecting you to correct all of my mistakes from now on, okay? I'm counting on yah! ;)
Elle me fatigue avec ses propos de sommelière non constructif, puis cette manière de déguster CE N’EST PAS UN BAIN DE BOUCHE, et pour finir ce fameux « aaaahhh » quand elle avale...
Husband ? Oh no, I un-subscribe ! 😡 😎
Hahahahah! 16 years baby!
@@winefolly Huh-what!? So, you got hitched when you were like, 12? ;)
@@Professor_Carl_Satanshe aint lettin you hit bruv