Thanks Terry. Great vid. I got my YZ125’s suspension totally rebuilt by you guys last year as well as my CBR600RR ten years ago. I still remember coming to one of the races at Eastern Creek helping you and Grant one Sunday. Great learning experience
Great explanation on the relationship between Spring rate and setting sag. I now understand that just dialling up preload on a soft Spring may not be the answer. Looks like a visit to Shock Treatment for my F800GS.
At the 1.38 mark I should have said that there will be "more" Static sag with the lighter rider. Sorry...my mistake. It gets sorted out later in the video.
Great video, very complex approach and good explanation. I'm wondering how far from theoretically perfect sag value You went based on rider's feedback but for sure this bike is now on completly different setting. Great job with video.
Amazing info. I have seen a lot of these and this is a masterclass. Going to watch part 3 now - I ride tarmac Supermoto so I'm looking for some insight there as sag figures will be different again 😊 Thanks 👍
Can you talk about Titanium springs? Progressive springs? Viscosity of damper fluids? Any telemetry used to measure swing arm and fork throw with position sensors + G's sensors to measure what the rider feels subjectively to dial a tune? I notice the Honda race bike has a ton of data ports...
Can you please make a video about the front sag (or not) with regards to off-road bikes? The one for road bikes made a lot of sense, but I wish you had a video for off-road bikes as well. Thanks!
Terry! Been watching your videos in America. Thank you! I have a couple questions: 1 sag is set and you go outside to test, is that the High Speed Compression you are adjusting? If rider likes increase in dampening (clockwise) what do you do to the setting of the sag at the shop? If rider likes decrease in dampening (counter-clockwise) what do you do to the setting of the sag at the shop? Finally, once sag is set where are you going with your high speed dampening? Where are you setting it at since the adjustment has now been compensated on sag.
It will vary from rider to rider. The whole point was to demonstrate that the starting figure won't necessarily yield the greatest results....you have to do the final track test.
Great videos. You say you're adjusting the preload each time with the t bar. Does the Husky have a quick adjustment compared to the YZ450F and the 2 x nuts? Or are you adjusting the compression or rebound?
Guys, thanks for the video, it's very useful! But I wanted to deduce the determination for the word sag. is it possible to call a sag a range? Sag as a manufacturer's recommended suspension compression range? A static sag is from 30mm to 40 but its a range, it is a recommended range and for a rider sag also is a recommended range. So is the sag a range first of all?
They do but if you have additional racking / panniers etc at the rear of the bike, they are prone to influencing the static sag as they are in a position of high leverage. This needs to be considered
HMM AFTER EACH TIME THE RIDER WENT OUT THEN YOU MADE A ADJUSTMENT AS PER RIDER EXPLAINED. YOU MADE ADJUSTMENT? DID YOU SOLEY ADJUST THE REBOUND HARDER OR SOFTER. ALL. I HEARD WAS SAG ADJUSTMENT?
Front sag will naturally effect geometry but it does not respond well to static measurements/adjustments due to the level of drag/binding in a telescopic fork. I prefer to set the front by a ride and adjust method (dynamic). Its more relative and doesn't mislead.
10% of 600 is 60 so why did you put the ideal static setting at 38.5mm? That is only 6.4% static sag compared to free sag. But yet you recommend 10-15%? Trying to wrap my head around 30-35% rider sag of 600mm. That would be 180mm rider sag. And you called his rider sag good at 106.5mm that is 18% of the total free sag.
Hi Romanov. Most dirt bikes have appr. 300mm of travel, 10 - 15% is 30 - 45mm......30 - 35% is 90 - 105mm. Any measurement is the garage is not final and ultimately it is what works on the track that counts. We actually had to wind on a bit more preload once we tested to get the best ride quality.
Terry! Been watching your videos in America. Thank you! I have a couple questions: 1 sag is set and you go outside to test, is that the High Speed Compression you are adjusting? If rider likes increase in dampening (clockwise) what do you do to the setting of the sag at the shop? If rider likes decrease in dampening (counter-clockwise) what do you do to the setting of the sag at the shop? Finally, once sag is set where are you going with your high speed dampening? Where are you setting it at since the adjustment has now been compensated on sag.
I am adjusting sag via an Xtrig preload adjuster using an 8mm tbar. We are chasing ideal drive characteristics. This is done as a priority before any damping changes are made. Remember....on dirt bikes it is the sag that is the primary mechanism for swingarm angle adjustment. That's the whole point
Terry, you continue to deliver more Science with each video, I never factored in chain adjustments affecting the sag, thank you !!
Thanks Terry. Great vid. I got my YZ125’s suspension totally rebuilt by you guys last year as well as my CBR600RR ten years ago. I still remember coming to one of the races at Eastern Creek helping you and Grant one Sunday. Great learning experience
Excellent indepth video explaining sag and what adjustments and changes has an effect on your setup. Spot on!!!
Great explanation on the relationship between Spring rate and setting sag. I now understand that just dialling up preload on a soft Spring may not be the answer. Looks like a visit to Shock Treatment for my F800GS.
At the 1.38 mark I should have said that there will be "more" Static sag with the lighter rider. Sorry...my mistake. It gets sorted out later in the video.
What was you turning on the track compression or rebound
How are you adjusting sag with a t handle? What is this magic! Please do tell!
WP and Xtrig have wind up preload adjusters that are activated via an 8mm bolt. These come standard on the Pro shocks@@shaneburesh9173
Great video, very complex approach and good explanation.
I'm wondering how far from theoretically perfect sag value You went based on rider's feedback but for sure this bike is now on completly different setting.
Great job with video.
Amazing info. I have seen a lot of these and this is a masterclass. Going to watch part 3 now - I ride tarmac Supermoto so I'm looking for some insight there as sag figures will be different again 😊 Thanks 👍
Can you talk about Titanium springs? Progressive springs? Viscosity of damper fluids? Any telemetry used to measure swing arm and fork throw with position sensors + G's sensors to measure what the rider feels subjectively to dial a tune? I notice the Honda race bike has a ton of data ports...
Yes. I would be happy to go over that. It would make for an interesting video
Can you please make a video about the front sag (or not) with regards to off-road bikes? The one for road bikes made a lot of sense, but I wish you had a video for off-road bikes as well. Thanks!
Great video! Love the full walk through!
Do you take measurements with 1/2 tank of fuel to average out the bike's weight?
Terry! Been watching your videos in America. Thank you!
I have a couple questions:
1 sag is set and you go outside to test, is that the High Speed Compression you are adjusting?
If rider likes increase in dampening (clockwise) what do you do to the setting of the sag at the shop?
If rider likes decrease in dampening (counter-clockwise) what do you do to the setting of the sag at the shop?
Finally, once sag is set where are you going with your high speed dampening? Where are you setting it at since the adjustment has now been compensated on sag.
Cheers Matthew
At the track you added more preload but didn't say what the final numbers were. That would have been good to know vs the shop measurements.
It will vary from rider to rider. The whole point was to demonstrate that the starting figure won't necessarily yield the greatest results....you have to do the final track test.
Great videos. You say you're adjusting the preload each time with the t bar. Does the Husky have a quick adjustment compared to the YZ450F and the 2 x nuts? Or are you adjusting the compression or rebound?
it's a quick adjust, listen to the squeak of the spring. compression/rebound will just click quietly and won't change sag.
I believe he's using an X-Trig shock adjuster.
great job teaching
Thank you!
should i assume this is all being done at the factory rebound/compression setting?
Guys, thanks for the video, it's very useful! But I wanted to deduce the determination for the word sag. is it possible to call a sag a range? Sag as a manufacturer's recommended suspension compression range? A static sag is from 30mm to 40 but its a range, it is a recommended range and for a rider sag also is a recommended range. So is the sag a range first of all?
Have a safe And Happy Easter
Same to you. Jan has told me I can " self Isolate" in her garden over the break.....bet there's no eggs in there'......
Shock Treatment haha!
Nice. Do the same percentages apply to ADV bikes?
They do but if you have additional racking / panniers etc at the rear of the bike, they are prone to influencing the static sag as they are in a position of high leverage. This needs to be considered
Do you worry about fork sag to confirm correct preload ?
HMM AFTER EACH TIME THE RIDER WENT OUT THEN YOU MADE A ADJUSTMENT AS PER RIDER EXPLAINED. YOU MADE ADJUSTMENT? DID YOU SOLEY ADJUST THE REBOUND HARDER OR SOFTER. ALL. I HEARD WAS SAG ADJUSTMENT?
Do you record the preferred sag setting for future use or do you repeat the process?
Terry, why is front end never checked for sag? Surely this affects the geometry?
Front sag will naturally effect geometry but it does not respond well to static measurements/adjustments due to the level of drag/binding in a telescopic fork. I prefer to set the front by a ride and adjust method (dynamic). Its more relative and doesn't mislead.
Does this apply to a hard enduro setup as well?
It applies to all bikes
does the lowering kit affect that meassurements ???
No
10% of 600 is 60 so why did you put the ideal static setting at 38.5mm? That is only 6.4% static sag compared to free sag. But yet you recommend 10-15%? Trying to wrap my head around 30-35% rider sag of 600mm. That would be 180mm rider sag. And you called his rider sag good at 106.5mm that is 18% of the total free sag.
Hi Romanov. Most dirt bikes have appr. 300mm of travel, 10 - 15% is 30 - 45mm......30 - 35% is 90 - 105mm. Any measurement is the garage is not final and ultimately it is what works on the track that counts. We actually had to wind on a bit more preload once we tested to get the best ride quality.
@@shocktreatment5495 thank you for clarifying.
7:10
It would be good to know the rider weight, just to know
Terry! Been watching your videos in America. Thank you!
I have a couple questions:
1 sag is set and you go outside to test, is that the High Speed Compression you are adjusting?
If rider likes increase in dampening (clockwise) what do you do to the setting of the sag at the shop?
If rider likes decrease in dampening (counter-clockwise) what do you do to the setting of the sag at the shop?
Finally, once sag is set where are you going with your high speed dampening? Where are you setting it at since the adjustment has now been compensated on sag.
I am adjusting sag via an Xtrig preload adjuster using an 8mm tbar. We are chasing ideal drive characteristics. This is done as a priority before any damping changes are made. Remember....on dirt bikes it is the sag that is the primary mechanism for swingarm angle adjustment. That's the whole point
Nice. Do the same percentages apply to ADV bikes?