This one is a bit rough but I needed to get it out to get it off my chest. I've been stuck for a while not getting anything done, so this was actually quite hard to get done without throwing it out again cuz i didnt feel it was good enough. so yea, now I feel lighter and ready to move on to the next thing.
Feeling like its not good enough sucks, but it happens. I can tell you from an unbiased POV that this video was great, and very much on par with your other works. Amazing job on the coin designs and i particularly liked the different sayings regarding the finger symbolism. This goes without saying but stunning art as always too :)
Hey man I just wanted to say that I love your art and the world you’re building, your lore is always so in depth, it truly feels like you’re chiseling the history and stories of the world out and it’s all very impressive
the video was great man, don't push yourself too hard. it's always so entertaining listening to you talking about your world, be it about the great war or the tiniest little detail in a random soup shop
Wow! You are amazing at making your world feel so alive and unique, I don’t think I’ve seen fantasy currency as creative as this. I’m planning on writing my own fantasy story and I find your videos inspiring. Your “human, but…” argument you made on designing fantasy creatures a while has steered me in a good direction for my own designs.
Verus's currency could be sheets of bronze which can be cut into 30 smaller rectangular strips of equal size and value; that way the currency can be divided by 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, and 15, making it convenient for converting into other currencies.
@@matt2328 Hmmm I think Nailbiter would be more along the lines of a suspicous person? The reasoning being that historically coins were bitten on to check if they were mixed with other metals. so Nailbiting would be the act of checking for the authenticity, right?
"Bite my thumb" could be someone giving away a lot of money, but not because they want to, either due to something like a price increases, taxes, or to a landlord collecting their money.
I could also see "bite my thumb" being a response to someone saying your lying. Kinda like "no cap" since biting a coin is a stereotypical way of testing if the coin was real or fake. If someone saying something to you "bite my thumb" would be like saying "prove it"
Yeah, my first instinct is that'd be a term of mistrust. Like saying someone might try using a fake thumb to pay you (this wouldn't work so well with everything being bronze but as a term that predated the war it'd make sense)
i dont like this one, i would take "nail biter" as someone who doesnt trust others, IRL coins were often bitten to ensure they were infact gold so its a sign of mistrust or at the very least a sign of confirming what someone says so since the coins here are fingers it would be reasonable to assume that coins were also bitten (but since most coins got replaced by bronze the term nail biter has since taken on a more broad meaning of someone who is generally distrustfull) "penny pincher" would be better as "nail clipper" as someone in another comment pointed out, coins were often clipped/shaved to make more coins which would also fit with the nail clipper nicely
If someone is rich, but bad with money or who is slow to spend (frugal), you could say their "All Thumbs", which typically means _lacking or showing a lack of nimbleness in using one's hands._
What if this actually originated with a practice of cutting off digits to settle debts? The currency arose as a standardized replacement for real fingers, probably when rulers started to realize that institutionally disabling your workers isn't great for the economy. That'd also explain the different values - you don't want to lose a pinky, but you really don't want to lose a finger, and you're screwed if you lose either or both of your thumbs In real life, currency originally developed for the purpose of paying and tracking debts (despite common misconceptions - read Debt: The First 5000 Years by David Graeber), so it'd make a lot of sense
I also like that this incorporates the cutting off digits thing while still making sense of the fact that they're worth so little as to be useful as everyday currency, since the it's long enough ago that it's reasonable for the worth of the coins to have since changed
I'm sure having a "green thumb" could be a connotation for being a stingy spender or something since bronze is known to turn green from oxidation if left out for too long. The Statue of Liberty in New York is a perfect example as it's actually made of bronze and has been exposed to the ocean air for so damn long. just an idea Alternatively, "Pull My Finger" could also be used for something but I can't think of anything at the moment "XD
I guess "Pulling my Finger" could just be a losing a tough bet or managing to borrowing from a stingy person, or just "pulling a finger" as barely meeting payments
I think copper coins in circulation don't usually develop green patina. The everyday usage of copper coinage keeps it buffed and oiled from our natural skin oils and movements. Only if they're rarely spent, or saved for a long time will the copper/bronze be oxidized. Being the largest domination, thumbs would be used less, and develop a green patina faster. The less used a thumb, the greener it'll get. So having a green thumb be a connotation of being stingy or careful with your money is excellent.
Mostergarden soon needs its own dictionary or wiki to search up words we forget in these episodes, so that you don’t have to explain everything in every video
"Don't bite the hand that feeds you" got an enhanced meaning. I also imagine green thumb could mean. Perhaps a talent in agriculture is subsidized during the war? How about rule of thumb? -Not to mention finger fetish-
I'm thinking about "snap your fingers" as a somewhat sarcastic metaphor to talk about money and power. For example, "just snap your fingers, and it will be done" could be a sarcastic way of saying that real power comes from money, or that people's only motivation is money, or it even could be a witty remark to remind someone powerful that he's only as powerful as he is rich (and that the moment he loses his money, he'll lose his power). Another idea: saying that something costs "three thumbs" to mean "more than you can pay". Another: "losing a finger" to mean "taking a hard financial blow". Yet another: "point a finger" at someone as mercenary slang to "put a bounty on someone's head" And even yet another: "a thumb war", meaning "a high stakes conflict"... Okay, one last one and I'll leave it there: "rule of thumb" instead of "might makes right".
My one critique is with the coins being the same metal. Part of the reason for different materials to prevent counterfeiting or reminting. You cant melt down 5 copper coins and turn them into 2 or 3 gold coins to artificially double or triple your wealth. But if a pinky is 1/3rd the size of a finger, you could melt 9 pinkies into 3 fingers and triple your wealth
@@monlenz Lead and arsenic used to be common components of bronze alloys, longterm exposure to arsenic can cause arsenical keratosis which show up as hard lessions on primarily the hands (and fingers) and feet. Maybe it could be seen as a divine punishment that taints ones own fingers for tampering with the currency, due to exposure to lead and arsenic fumes when melting down clippings.
As @sentane8031 said, you could use different types of bronze, for example, instead of normal bronze, for the thumbs, you could use aluminum bronze, it's more dense than normal bronze, so it feels more significant, and has a pale gold color. Also, it is more resistant to tarnishing, which would make it more valuable @@monlenz
In relation of what you were talking about "clipping". Historically, coins have been cut in half, cuarters etc when a fraction was needed. In your case you could either do the same or fraction a coin in "phalanges"!
like this idea, though personally I'd call them joints. as for historical examples, if I remember right, the "bits" of Shave and a Haircut fame was half a quarter each, or 12 and a half cents.
What's a man gotta do to get a hand around here? Hell, I'd settle for a thumbs-up and a prayer - I got skin in the game, and I'm gonna break my fingers if I can't scrape some clippings together. I'm dug in with both hands, and if I can't get so much as a nail out of this pit, they're gonna start counting up my TOES! Not to point fingers at glad-handing friends, but I need CASH!
I like the idea that beggars might come up to you asking "give us a hand?" And having someone 'wrapped around one's finger' might mean they are a good customer or gracious tipper in a neat reversal of the idiom.
It was a blast being on discord with you Simon. When the first jokes began popping up, it felt like we hit a goldmine. Thank you for participating in our chaos Simon.
Truly a worldbuilding moment. "Any ideas on how to implement an economy for dwarfs?" "Lets make coins based on them" "How original, let me guess, they are round and shiny?" "Uh no they are just fingers model based coins so we can make jokes" "Revolutionary get to work"
0:38 I think it'd make sense that the average wage would pay enough money an hour to buy a meal, so the average worker could get two pinkies an hour. This wage to meal ratio is something I've noticed in my home town, but I'm not sure if that's universal or anything
a small tid bit of info about currency conversion, in medieval Europe most coinage would of been used interchangeably, you could see pennies or groats from England all the way in Spain as England did at the time have some of the highest silver content which made them popular to trade with and because of the cross design on medieval coinage it made them easy to cut up legally into smaller denominations such as half pennies or farthings. most of Europe actually used very similar coinage that all evolved from the same set of roman coins. their value was dependant on weight so most traders and shops would carry weighing scales with lead weights so check to see if the silver or gold content was in check. great video though really enjoying this series
there could be a set of rare fingers that when all gathered through, trading or exploring or combat, and displayed on a key ring resembling a hand, it could be a social status symbol of like, "don't mess with this guy, he has a extra hand" , or "be wary of the false hands, they are not to be underestimated".
This is cool:) Missed opportunity for base 12 count on the coins - a knucklebone based currency system is “kind of metal” in exactly the right way for the Monstergarden🩸 3 pinkie’s to a finger, 4 fingers to a “hand”, or a thumb - clippings could measure out to pinky for weight for small currency, akin to how people actually used to use metal-backed money back when let’s say ≈ 10 bits to pinky. This was a lot more common than people give it credit for, and pretty much the reason why scales are such a big money thing iconographically - i mean that and debasement which was MASSIVE problem, hence the stamps and face of the law
@@Noeyk200Well, the four fingers to a thumb is fairly obvious. That's just a hand. The three pinkies is partially just to get to a base twelve, but there are three knuckles on the pinkie.
A Few idea Someone is handy- They are great with Money All Thumbs- Rich and careless with their money Finger Cutter- Thief or Thug Palmed- To be stolen from cuffed - to have no spare income stubber- Cheapskate Fister- Rich but Evil Person Splayed- To have an accurate count Hugger- Someone who is generous Nail Trimming/ Trimming my Nails- Paying a fee or taxes Clutching the Clippings- Embezzlement Shaking- To Engage in an illicit trade
I love that “giving the middle finger” is almost like your insulting people by saying they’re not good enough, like calling them average, they aren’t worth the money
"Hand holders" banks, share holders, insurance companies(?) "Their twiddl'n them thumbs" could be a phase for when someone gets cold feet on a deal, or can't make up their mind even though they already said yes, or second-guessing I guess. "Fingers crossed" could be hoping for financial wealth or lying about some sort of bet. "Can't put my finger on it" could be not willing to bet on something. "Finger Snappers" could be someone really wealthy and having a lot of coins that jingle when they walk or something like that. "All fingers and thumbs" being really confident "Stick out like a sore thumb" a rich person on the Poor Side of Town or someone making a bet and not being happy with the result "Finger in every pie" many financial back up plans, or fail safes. "Picking up clippings" beggars And so on and so forth......
"Give me all your fingers, and no one gets hurt!" Okay, jokes aside, I love this kind of little detail (and will probably be shown once or a couple of times), but it shows the love and care for worldbuilding. This stuff is stupidly cool to think about, and with the neat slag and terms used for coins, the idea that people who have lost a finger or two are either workers or are hiding the fact they're in debt is just *chef's kiss* I love it!
Calling someone a nail biter could mean they're too suspicious or paranoid, referencing how people would bite coins to see if they were legitimate ones or counterfeit. EDIT: Also you need to vertically flip one of the sides of the thumb coin otherwise it doesn't make sense.
The crystal-clear german caught me off-guard. :D In regards of the (Nail)Clippings: The "Injection point" of the blanks or end of the dyes could be at the fingernail. This would give the nail a flared adge, so to trim them could also be a way of the rich to show of they have money (by wasting the clipping and giving the coin they use a finished look) and a way for the poor to get more money out of the money, as you saied. The rough nail would also be logical because you would want to get the hole at the end perfect, from a manufacturing point of view, to hang them on a string which would be a purse
This is amazing, currencies were one of my favourite parts of my own world building. Just one thing, you said Gold and Silver were scarce, because there’s a war going on, so they’re using bronze. But bronze is traditionally hugely important during war time (so much so, they melted down all our beautiful fountain pieces during WW1, and then again during WW2 here in Germany. Bronze is also significantly more expensive (in the real world) than other copper alloys like brass, due to the rarity of tin. I think brass would be a more believable choice of material for the narrative, as in our own history, it has often been used as a cheap alternative to gold or bronze.
I was realy surprised when i heard you speak german for a second, especially without an accent, So i thought I'd share some of my favourite german expressions which I thought could work really well with your ideas: 1. "Jemanden um den (kleinen) Finger wickeln" which translates to something along the lines of "wrapping someone around ones finger/pinky" and essentially means to play or inflence someone in a small way. 2. "Sich keinen Finger krumm machen" or "won't bend a finger" could be used to display someone who's unwilling to work for themselves and rather pays others to do it. 3. "Seine Finger überall im Spiel haben" or "having ones fingers everywhere". Maybe some corrupt criminal is paying of law enforcement to go unprosecuted I realy love this idea for currency and all the fun stuff you were able to do with it :)
Those sayings also exist in English: 1. "Have [someone] wound around [one's] (little) finger" 2. "Won't lift a finger" 3. "Having a finger in every pie"
@@monlenz Another saying that is a perfect fit would be "Wenn man ihm den kleinen Finger reicht, nimmt er gleich die ganze Hand" or "If you extend your pinky, he grabs the entire hand". It means that someone is taking advantage of your generosity. That expression actually makes more sense in your world, than it does in real life.
Cool idea! Small criticism: The thumbs not being gold or another metal makes it harder to distinguish, so you cannot immediatly spot if there is any bigger currency. Having all coins on a ring would solve this problem somewhat because you can spot crooked/wide coins more easily. Also counterfitting would be really easy, just take a finger coin, a mold of a thumb, melt the finger and pour a thumb. I think there needs to be some mechanism that would make counterfitting thumbs hard or nearly impossible, making the thumbs gold would be the easiest, but there might be something better like magic, advanced production techniques, or just insanely high punishments on counterfitting
if i missed out on a sweet deal on something id say it slipped through my fingers if i was surprised by how expensive something was id say that shit bent my fingers back "have you seen how much a new soandso cost? they might as well just cut my hand off?!" if i was saving up for something id say it was giving me arthritis (my fingers arent movin) "i cant put my finger on it" still makes sense but now its like "i wouldnt bet on it"
I can already imagine satchels of these finger-coins, and envelopes analogous to the real-world coin wrappers AKA bank rolls, their lower-pitched jingle. You could fan these out like you do with paper money to make a many-fingered hand, or attach these fingers by the loops in them to your hand and wear it as an accessory, similar to a skeleton hand.
'Pulling my finger' would be a perfect transfusion of the dutch saying: "this costed me a rib.' (Directly translated) Plus you could also have. "This cost ne a arm and a leg." Change to "This cost me a arm!". To say that something is really expensive
As a German, I obviously had to think about German sayings about fingers and how they might work in the context of money. Here are two: "Jemanden auf die Finger schauen" = "To keep an eye on someone's fingers". Meaning to keep an eye on someone to prevent them from making mistakes. In the context of money, it could mean to make someone be frugal. "I really have to keep an eye on my friend's spending habits. He spends too much money on expensive clothes." "Seine Finger im Spiel haben" = "To have one's fingers in the game". Meaning to have influence over something. In the context of money, it can mean two things. Firstly, it could mean gambling. "I have my fingers in the game. If I lose, I am broke." Secondly, it could mean bribery. "The trial was unfair. The plaintiff had his fingers in it and bribed the judge."
Another one: „Fingerspitzengefühl haben“ = „To have fingertip feeling“ Meaning to have tact or to have a delicate touch. In the context of money it could mean having a knack for finances. „She has a talent for making hands out of digits. She has real fingertip feeling.“
Wouldn't it be easier for a wartime economy to use base copper over bronze? Since bronze is normally a mixture of two different metals, tin and copper.
I love that currency, I will say that it seems like they are in a weird way TOO good to be everyday use items that are made in mass production, maybe make a wrapped version with the writing or symbols being chipped or faded, also this saying came immediately to my head. "Give me a handful" it could mean give me 5 fingers "It's a handful job" To do this is worth 5 fingers You can also place wording for Merchants to a cruel world relating to big amounts of money as a great tragedy or maybe a magical effect can be used by spending 100 fingers which is how many fingers the god of magic has
ive been subscribed since the start, and u kinda helped getting me into drawing, its quite relaxing. however when it comes to digital painting i have NO clue about the krita management, i know u say you dont like doing tutorials and that youre bad at them, but a "heres how i do it" instead of a *tutorial* would be AWESOME. because the way you go about the technical aspect of drawing on a tablet seems to be intreaguing to me. also lov ur drawings
what do you mean the technical aspects of drawing on a tablet? do you mean like what key binds i use to make it more efficient? or like technical like my method of drawing and how i shade cuz in that case i have no clue what im doing haha
@@monlenz haha, i was thinking more on krita with your digital setup(what bars and settings you have topggled), or what brushes you use, and canvas size and all that. cuz i really like your way of doing it, it would be fun to try and incorporate some of your elements.
"Pull your finger out" could, from it's original meaning of "get to doing something", mean to donate to a cause. Another, "standing around with your prick in your hands" could mean not doing anything with your money. Regarding Veruss, perhaps they use sticks or thread of varying length, tying with their tower focus? Could make for some interesting money storage techniques. If thread, clothes could be literally made of money for the very rich. "They took everything but the shirt off my back" could become "They took nothing but the shirt off my back".
Man I love this stuff, the sheer quality of the artwork, along with the fantastical yet still somewhat logical and grounded world building makes for such thrilling and engaging bits of lore and trinkets that really get me invested in this world.
The coin clipping thing would only work during the era in which gold and silver also existed in the coins. As you have it now, with all denominations being cast in bronze, weight wouldn't matter as the largest denomination wouldn't weigh much more than the smallest. The removal of gold and sliver from the currency effectively created an easily counterfeited fiat currency that would absolutely TANK the economy as everyone takes their smallest denominations and simply re casts them into the larger ones. when you can take two single value coins and cast them into a single HUNDRED value coin. your inflation would be out of control and no one would even use anything other than thumbs anymore.
@@monlenz There could be a fingerprint on each coin. Being unique, Fingerprints are the perfect thematic authenticator. Sure, anyone can stamp a counterfeit finger, but only the Royal Molds safe in the Royal Mont have the King's Print. Or perhaps the authentic coins are imprinted by the King/Chancellor of the Mint via magic with the aid of a wizard, and the counterfeits feature an inferior copy of the print produced via the mold. The Printing Of the Coins could be a public legitimimation ritual, and could take any number if forms, from the creation of the Master Molds at the beginning of a Regime, or the collection and re-printing of coins from a previous one, to a peridoic check of all the coins to ensure that no bewitched coins have been introduced into the realm by its enemies.
Ive never thought about changing the shape of a coin, like fingers thats funky and i absolutely love it ❤❤ you really help me get inspired for my art so thankyou for that!
putting ur finger to your lip could be a way of showing youre thinking about buying something instead of shushing someone, like how you might rest ur cheek on your hand when deciding on something
Great worldbuilding, as always. Maybe it was a deliberate decision, but just to be sure: remember to flip the thumb when showcasing both sides of the coin, given that it is not symetrical. I love your work!
I really love this concept. Perhaps there could be a blood magic cult that will do a very literal exchange for those most destitute. If you give them a digit and the blood of it's wound, you will be given a coin of equivalent type. Calling a specific string intended to hold coins on a 'Palm' would be pretty cool way of naming a simple string too. Perhaps losing a hand would be considered something to be exiled over, as a man without a hand can hold no fingers, and therefore cannot contribute to society/the war.
I have a similar system! My world's main metal source is the race of golems that are buried beneath the surface of the world. Because of this, metal is measured in digits, fingers, fists, etc.
in dutch weve got a saying called "having a finger in the stew", which means to have influence over something in the context of your coins it could refer more specifically to lobbying or bribery
This video has actually inspired me to make my own unconventionally shaped coins. I came up with the idea of petals, flower shaped coins. I don’t know if they’re already a thing though.
You can bring a lot of history into the designs as well: For one there may be coins with different exact motifs depending on where and when they were coined. I'd expect the Thumb for example to depict the respective class of worker that was deemed the most important by those overseeing the process. Other cultures may have also co-opted these coins because they were so widespread, but replacing the religious iconography with their own mystical kings and heroes. And the longer those kinds of coins are in circulation, the more abstract they may become. People can easily identify them by shape, so over time the organic details on the "tails" side may get replaced with other symbolism. In some cases they may end up covered in entire prayers, others may depict plants, animals or items from prominent myths, or simply information about when, where and under whose reign they were coined. The general shape of early ones would also be much more anatomically correct, with later ones gradually getting simplified, until you eventually end up with very rectangular shapes. Somewhere down the line a culture may even fuse the Finger and Pinky into a set of roughly finger-shaped coins of different sizes, denoting their value with a number pressed into them. That would effectively make the original Finger and Pinky the equivalents to 10 and 1 cent coins respectively, to the curved Thumb as a dollar/euro equivalent. The original inventors wouldn't be happy about it, with it muddying the underlying concept - but at that point their currency had grown beyond their control.
"Lend me a hand" Could refer to asking someone to lend you some money, or a predetermined specific amount such as 1 thumb, 3 fingers and 1 pinky. "It cost me a hand and a foot" or "It cost me my hands and feet" could have the same meaning as "It cost me an arm and a leg"
Adding feminine fingers could advance the nail clipping concept by way of feminine coins having longer nails you'd get a higher yield to the clippings.
This one is a bit rough but I needed to get it out to get it off my chest. I've been stuck for a while not getting anything done, so this was actually quite hard to get done without throwing it out again cuz i didnt feel it was good enough. so yea, now I feel lighter and ready to move on to the next thing.
Feeling like its not good enough sucks, but it happens. I can tell you from an unbiased POV that this video was great, and very much on par with your other works. Amazing job on the coin designs and i particularly liked the different sayings regarding the finger symbolism. This goes without saying but stunning art as always too :)
Hey man I just wanted to say that I love your art and the world you’re building, your lore is always so in depth, it truly feels like you’re chiseling the history and stories of the world out and it’s all very impressive
the video was great man, don't push yourself too hard. it's always so entertaining listening to you talking about your world, be it about the great war or the tiniest little detail in a random soup shop
Wow! You are amazing at making your world feel so alive and unique, I don’t think I’ve seen fantasy currency as creative as this. I’m planning on writing my own fantasy story and I find your videos inspiring.
Your “human, but…” argument you made on designing fantasy creatures a while has steered me in a good direction for my own designs.
Verus's currency could be sheets of bronze which can be cut into 30 smaller rectangular strips of equal size and value; that way the currency can be divided by 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, and 15, making it convenient for converting into other currencies.
I think calling someone a "Nailclipper" would be a way of calling someone a miser.
"Nail biter" could be another one
@@matt2328 Hmmm I think Nailbiter would be more along the lines of a suspicous person? The reasoning being that historically coins were bitten on to check if they were mixed with other metals. so Nailbiting would be the act of checking for the authenticity, right?
Nail biter might be someone who practices debasement like they used to in Rome?
I fuckin LOVE this idea!
Could also mean someone who consistently rips others off, you know like removing some of the value from the coin/transaction
"His prick and his pocket share a pinky" translation, "Your broke."
I love this one!
"He's short on digits" is another.
“He can only count on one hand”
Also quite poor.
@@derfliv206"he's on single digits"
Why does this sound so realistic??
"Bite my thumb" could be someone giving away a lot of money, but not because they want to, either due to something like a price increases, taxes, or to a landlord collecting their money.
OR! It could be akin to looking a gift horse in the mouth, via biting a coin to tell if it's real!
I could also see "bite my thumb" being a response to someone saying your lying. Kinda like "no cap" since biting a coin is a stereotypical way of testing if the coin was real or fake. If someone saying something to you "bite my thumb" would be like saying "prove it"
Yeah, my first instinct is that'd be a term of mistrust. Like saying someone might try using a fake thumb to pay you (this wouldn't work so well with everything being bronze but as a term that predated the war it'd make sense)
You could say you'd bite someone's thumb to indicate you do not trust them, and would check if his money is not counterfeit!
“Do you bite your thumb at _me_ sir?”
“Oh no I do not bite my thumb at _you_ , sir, but I _do_ bite my thumb, sir!”
“Nail biter” would be synonymous with “Penny pincher”
Ooo great one!
i dont like this one, i would take "nail biter" as someone who doesnt trust others, IRL coins were often bitten to ensure they were infact gold so its a sign of mistrust or at the very least a sign of confirming what someone says so since the coins here are fingers it would be reasonable to assume that coins were also bitten (but since most coins got replaced by bronze the term nail biter has since taken on a more broad meaning of someone who is generally distrustfull) "penny pincher" would be better as "nail clipper" as someone in another comment pointed out, coins were often clipped/shaved to make more coins which would also fit with the nail clipper nicely
If someone is rich, but bad with money or who is slow to spend (frugal), you could say their "All Thumbs", which typically means _lacking or showing a lack of nimbleness in using one's hands._
I like the implication that someone might be called "thumb-clutcher"
love it
"all thumbs and no fingers"
That’s cool yeah
"crossing fingers" could mean making bookkeeping errors, or engaging in financial trickery in the same vein as "cooking the books"
as in crossing fingers behind your back when shaking someones hand... so nearly the same meaning as cartoons had me believe
Also sounds like someones who gambling with all his cash, "damn all on black? He's really crossing his fingers on that one"
Crossing fingers is cool
“Yo bro can I borrow some fingers”
Lend me a hand
@@ruralmason9729dont worry i gladly give both
"Mom, can I have a thumb? I'm going to the market."; "Keep the pinkies"
Michael here. Where are your fingers?
kid named finger
What if this actually originated with a practice of cutting off digits to settle debts? The currency arose as a standardized replacement for real fingers, probably when rulers started to realize that institutionally disabling your workers isn't great for the economy. That'd also explain the different values - you don't want to lose a pinky, but you really don't want to lose a finger, and you're screwed if you lose either or both of your thumbs
In real life, currency originally developed for the purpose of paying and tracking debts (despite common misconceptions - read Debt: The First 5000 Years by David Graeber), so it'd make a lot of sense
Wow, great idea, and some cool history
I also like that this incorporates the cutting off digits thing while still making sense of the fact that they're worth so little as to be useful as everyday currency, since the it's long enough ago that it's reasonable for the worth of the coins to have since changed
And if you do a crime you have to pay a finger or a finger
Bro cited his sources 😂
That's a really great idea honestly. And eventually they were like "hey all our peasants don't have fingers and cant farm.
I'm sure having a "green thumb" could be a connotation for being a stingy spender or something since bronze is known to turn green from oxidation if left out for too long. The Statue of Liberty in New York is a perfect example as it's actually made of bronze and has been exposed to the ocean air for so damn long.
just an idea
Alternatively, "Pull My Finger" could also be used for something but I can't think of anything at the moment "XD
I guess "Pulling my Finger" could just be a losing a tough bet or managing to borrowing from a stingy person, or just "pulling a finger" as barely meeting payments
Pull my finger would probably be a way to say "just take the deal"
Joke and cool phrase, I like it
I think copper coins in circulation don't usually develop green patina. The everyday usage of copper coinage keeps it buffed and oiled from our natural skin oils and movements. Only if they're rarely spent, or saved for a long time will the copper/bronze be oxidized. Being the largest domination, thumbs would be used less, and develop a green patina faster. The less used a thumb, the greener it'll get. So having a green thumb be a connotation of being stingy or careful with your money is excellent.
Lady Liberty is copper, but yes, the appearance is its patina from weathering. I wonder what it looked like new.
Gives 'thumb on the scale' a whole 'nother meaning.
Paying your way into the outcome coming out in your favor?
Could be a way of insinuating bribery
Political bribery
@@rickymaher3325especially if scales are a symbol of justice in this world as well.
All these phrases make so much sense and feel so natural
It's nuts
Mostergarden soon needs its own dictionary or wiki to search up words we forget in these episodes, so that you don’t have to explain everything in every video
I think this is a great idea similar to how it was donde in the dune series
I would love just like an art book that has little lore details and such
@@FoamBananaHe’s working on an art book, that’s what all these ideas are going towards for now
"He's clipping my pinkies" i.e. "He's nickel and diming me"
"Don't bite the hand that feeds you" got an enhanced meaning.
I also imagine green thumb could mean. Perhaps a talent in agriculture is subsidized during the war?
How about rule of thumb?
-Not to mention finger fetish-
wake up babe monstergarden just dropped a new video
im awake
I'm thinking about "snap your fingers" as a somewhat sarcastic metaphor to talk about money and power. For example, "just snap your fingers, and it will be done" could be a sarcastic way of saying that real power comes from money, or that people's only motivation is money, or it even could be a witty remark to remind someone powerful that he's only as powerful as he is rich (and that the moment he loses his money, he'll lose his power).
Another idea: saying that something costs "three thumbs" to mean "more than you can pay". Another: "losing a finger" to mean "taking a hard financial blow". Yet another: "point a finger" at someone as mercenary slang to "put a bounty on someone's head" And even yet another: "a thumb war", meaning "a high stakes conflict"... Okay, one last one and I'll leave it there: "rule of thumb" instead of "might makes right".
Measuring "nail clippings" by weight could lead to "putting your finger on the scales" as a saying
My one critique is with the coins being the same metal. Part of the reason for different materials to prevent counterfeiting or reminting. You cant melt down 5 copper coins and turn them into 2 or 3 gold coins to artificially double or triple your wealth. But if a pinky is 1/3rd the size of a finger, you could melt 9 pinkies into 3 fingers and triple your wealth
true so i have been thinking about what measures I can use to prevent counterfeiting as it would be an issue ram has to deal with.
Maybe they might use less tin for the lower denominations, making it more red from the copper?
@@monlenz Lead and arsenic used to be common components of bronze alloys, longterm exposure to arsenic can cause arsenical keratosis which show up as hard lessions on primarily the hands (and fingers) and feet. Maybe it could be seen as a divine punishment that taints ones own fingers for tampering with the currency, due to exposure to lead and arsenic fumes when melting down clippings.
@@monlenz different forms of bronze, or you could use brass for thumbs or fingers (since brass has a goldish colouring.)
As @sentane8031 said, you could use different types of bronze, for example, instead of normal bronze, for the thumbs, you could use aluminum bronze, it's more dense than normal bronze, so it feels more significant, and has a pale gold color. Also, it is more resistant to tarnishing, which would make it more valuable @@monlenz
If they coins are to be mounted on a string, all the faces would be upside down from the perspective of the viewer. Also I LOVE NAIL CLIPPINGS!
With the nail clipping stuff, I feel like “nail biting” would be something to do with spending generously to the point of your own detriment
Because you leave yourself with only the clippings and not even full coins
Or just biting the coin to see if it's made of quality bronze
@trazyianajones456 so calling someone a nail biter could mean they don't trust people or check þings þoroughly but in a negative way
@@casualsleepingdragon8501 hey that's not a bad idea
In relation of what you were talking about "clipping". Historically, coins have been cut in half, cuarters etc when a fraction was needed. In your case you could either do the same or fraction a coin in "phalanges"!
like this idea, though personally I'd call them joints.
as for historical examples, if I remember right, the "bits" of Shave and a Haircut fame was half a quarter each, or 12 and a half cents.
I wonder if someone could stretch out the pinky to try to pass them off as a finger
I'd call partial coins "nubs" in the underclasses where most things are priced in nubs and not pinkies
"I wouldn't pay a pinky's knuckle for this!"
@@KarolOfGutovo a pinky's knuckle is so good! Beggars on the street crying "a pittance, a pinky knuckle, please!"
What's a man gotta do to get a hand around here? Hell, I'd settle for a thumbs-up and a prayer - I got skin in the game, and I'm gonna break my fingers if I can't scrape some clippings together. I'm dug in with both hands, and if I can't get so much as a nail out of this pit, they're gonna start counting up my TOES! Not to point fingers at glad-handing friends, but I need CASH!
Bravo, this is actually a pretty great in-universe monologue.
I love this. Someone pass a pinky to this man, he's earned. I would but I'm bare handed at the moment
a coin named "finger" moment
I like the idea that beggars might come up to you asking "give us a hand?" And having someone 'wrapped around one's finger' might mean they are a good customer or gracious tipper in a neat reversal of the idiom.
I þink having someone"wrapped around one's finger" would more likely mean the person is being payed off or in a deal the can't refuse financially
It was a blast being on discord with you Simon.
When the first jokes began popping up, it felt like we hit a goldmine.
Thank you for participating in our chaos Simon.
i appreciate it, thank you.
Truly a worldbuilding moment.
"Any ideas on how to implement an economy for dwarfs?"
"Lets make coins based on them"
"How original, let me guess, they are round and shiny?"
"Uh no they are just fingers model based coins so we can make jokes"
"Revolutionary get to work"
0:38 I think it'd make sense that the average wage would pay enough money an hour to buy a meal, so the average worker could get two pinkies an hour. This wage to meal ratio is something I've noticed in my home town, but I'm not sure if that's universal or anything
a small tid bit of info about currency conversion, in medieval Europe most coinage would of been used interchangeably, you could see pennies or groats from England all the way in Spain as England did at the time have some of the highest silver content which made them popular to trade with and because of the cross design on medieval coinage it made them easy to cut up legally into smaller denominations such as half pennies or farthings. most of Europe actually used very similar coinage that all evolved from the same set of roman coins. their value was dependant on weight so most traders and shops would carry weighing scales with lead weights so check to see if the silver or gold content was in check.
great video though really enjoying this series
there could be a set of rare fingers that when all gathered through, trading or exploring or combat, and displayed on a key ring resembling a hand, it could be a social status symbol of like, "don't mess with this guy, he has a extra hand" , or "be wary of the false hands, they are not to be underestimated".
The idea of a key ring being like a hand is awesome!
I love this idea
If it’s that special and rare, I still feel that could be an easy way to get robbed though.
This is cool:) Missed opportunity for base 12 count on the coins - a knucklebone based currency system is “kind of metal” in exactly the right way for the Monstergarden🩸 3 pinkie’s to a finger, 4 fingers to a “hand”, or a thumb - clippings could measure out to pinky for weight for small currency, akin to how people actually used to use metal-backed money back when let’s say ≈ 10 bits to pinky. This was a lot more common than people give it credit for, and pretty much the reason why scales are such a big money thing iconographically - i mean that and debasement which was MASSIVE problem, hence the stamps and face of the law
How exactly did you come up with three pinkies being a finger and four fingers being a thumb? It seems somewhat arbitrary to me.
@@Noeyk200Well, the four fingers to a thumb is fairly obvious. That's just a hand. The three pinkies is partially just to get to a base twelve, but there are three knuckles on the pinkie.
3:50 this caught me off guard, didn't know you spoke german haha
Same here, he should have put up a German jumpscare warning / Sprungspuk-Warnung.
inst the saying "ich drück DIR die daumen" tho ?
A Few idea
Someone is handy- They are great with Money
All Thumbs- Rich and careless with their money
Finger Cutter- Thief or Thug
Palmed- To be stolen from
cuffed - to have no spare income
stubber- Cheapskate
Fister- Rich but Evil Person
Splayed- To have an accurate count
Hugger- Someone who is generous
Nail Trimming/ Trimming my Nails- Paying a fee or taxes
Clutching the Clippings- Embezzlement
Shaking- To Engage in an illicit trade
Ohh, these are cool. The sayings, the cutting fingers off as debt collection. Lots of great details. Love the rough look of them too.
I love that “giving the middle finger” is almost like your insulting people by saying they’re not good enough, like calling them average, they aren’t worth the money
Well that is utterly horific, and yet incredibly interesting.
"Hand holders" banks, share holders, insurance companies(?)
"Their twiddl'n them thumbs" could be a phase for when someone gets cold feet on a deal, or can't make up their mind even though they already said yes, or second-guessing I guess.
"Fingers crossed" could be hoping for financial wealth or lying about some sort of bet.
"Can't put my finger on it" could be not willing to bet on something.
"Finger Snappers" could be someone really wealthy and having a lot of coins that jingle when they walk or something like that.
"All fingers and thumbs" being really confident
"Stick out like a sore thumb" a rich person on the Poor Side of Town or someone making a bet and not being happy with the result
"Finger in every pie" many financial back up plans, or fail safes.
"Picking up clippings" beggars
And so on and so forth......
"Give me all your fingers, and no one gets hurt!" Okay, jokes aside, I love this kind of little detail (and will probably be shown once or a couple of times), but it shows the love and care for worldbuilding. This stuff is stupidly cool to think about, and with the neat slag and terms used for coins, the idea that people who have lost a finger or two are either workers or are hiding the fact they're in debt is just *chef's kiss* I love it!
This is so smart. I want to cry.
Kudos to you.
I tip my hat.
I cry for the beauty before me.
😢😢😢
So beautiful.
“It’s rude to point fingers” a way of telling someone not to brag about riches
Calling someone a nail biter could mean they're too suspicious or paranoid, referencing how people would bite coins to see if they were legitimate ones or counterfeit.
EDIT: Also you need to vertically flip one of the sides of the thumb coin otherwise it doesn't make sense.
I love this video, because I was just homebrewing a currency for a tabletop game that didn't go too deeply into it.
costing "an arm and a leg" could mean the exact same thing, but that's only if people think of the limbs as huge finger-like digits.
in the wise words of mister crabs, "i like money"
The crystal-clear german caught me off-guard. :D
In regards of the (Nail)Clippings:
The "Injection point" of the blanks or end of the dyes could be at the fingernail. This would give the nail a flared adge, so to trim them could also be a way of the rich to show of they have money (by wasting the clipping and giving the coin they use a finished look) and a way for the poor to get more money out of the money, as you saied. The rough nail would also be logical because you would want to get the hole at the end perfect, from a manufacturing point of view, to hang them on a string which would be a purse
This is amazing, currencies were one of my favourite parts of my own world building. Just one thing, you said Gold and Silver were scarce, because there’s a war going on, so they’re using bronze. But bronze is traditionally hugely important during war time (so much so, they melted down all our beautiful fountain pieces during WW1, and then again during WW2 here in Germany. Bronze is also significantly more expensive (in the real world) than other copper alloys like brass, due to the rarity of tin. I think brass would be a more believable choice of material for the narrative, as in our own history, it has often been used as a cheap alternative to gold or bronze.
I was realy surprised when i heard you speak german for a second, especially without an accent, So i thought I'd share some of my favourite german expressions which I thought could work really well with your ideas:
1. "Jemanden um den (kleinen) Finger wickeln" which translates to something along the lines of "wrapping someone around ones finger/pinky" and essentially means to play or inflence someone in a small way.
2. "Sich keinen Finger krumm machen" or "won't bend a finger" could be used to display someone who's unwilling to work for themselves and rather pays others to do it.
3. "Seine Finger überall im Spiel haben" or "having ones fingers everywhere". Maybe some corrupt criminal is paying of law enforcement to go unprosecuted
I realy love this idea for currency and all the fun stuff you were able to do with it :)
yea i was born in germany so i can speak german. though i dont know that many german sayings so this is great information thank you.
Those sayings also exist in English:
1. "Have [someone] wound around [one's] (little) finger"
2. "Won't lift a finger"
3. "Having a finger in every pie"
@@tb_eest Oh wow, I actually didn't know these existed, thanks.
@@monlenzInteresting. Yet, it should be "Ich drücke dir die Daumen". It sounded like you said "mir". Perhaps I misheard it, though.
@@monlenz Another saying that is a perfect fit would be "Wenn man ihm den kleinen Finger reicht, nimmt er gleich die ganze Hand" or "If you extend your pinky, he grabs the entire hand". It means that someone is taking advantage of your generosity. That expression actually makes more sense in your world, than it does in real life.
Cool idea! Small criticism:
The thumbs not being gold or another metal makes it harder to distinguish, so you cannot immediatly spot if there is any bigger currency. Having all coins on a ring would solve this problem somewhat because you can spot crooked/wide coins more easily.
Also counterfitting would be really easy, just take a finger coin, a mold of a thumb, melt the finger and pour a thumb. I think there needs to be some mechanism that would make counterfitting thumbs hard or nearly impossible, making the thumbs gold would be the easiest, but there might be something better like magic, advanced production techniques, or just insanely high punishments on counterfitting
if i missed out on a sweet deal on something id say it slipped through my fingers
if i was surprised by how expensive something was id say that shit bent my fingers back
"have you seen how much a new soandso cost? they might as well just cut my hand off?!"
if i was saving up for something id say it was giving me arthritis (my fingers arent movin)
"i cant put my finger on it" still makes sense but now its like "i wouldnt bet on it"
I can already imagine satchels of these finger-coins, and envelopes analogous to the real-world coin wrappers AKA bank rolls, their lower-pitched jingle. You could fan these out like you do with paper money to make a many-fingered hand, or attach these fingers by the loops in them to your hand and wear it as an accessory, similar to a skeleton hand.
„Pinky Promise“: A promise where if you break it, you owe the other person a pinky
Let's give him a Big Hand(or lot's of fingers) for this concept. It's awsome!
"the main thing that allows for worldbuilding with coins is the writing and images on them"
damn, not the economy??
i mean, fair enough, i guess
Such a fascinating subject! I most certainly enjoy odd currencies
"Take my hand" is an interesting one. You are helping someone and depending on context it could mean physically, mentally, or financially!
A "heavy handed approach" would just mean the expensive option for getting something done.
Dude your concepts are f*kin' AMAZING!!!!
I'd wager this video is worth five thumbs at least. Nice work.
It's worth shall be measured by the whole community using the "Thumbs Up" button.
'Pulling my finger' would be a perfect transfusion of the dutch saying: "this costed me a rib.' (Directly translated)
Plus you could also have. "This cost ne a arm and a leg." Change to "This cost me a arm!". To say that something is really expensive
"Hey brother, could you lend me a hand?"
In time, a game will be made with this art style.
As a German, I obviously had to think about German sayings about fingers and how they might work in the context of money. Here are two:
"Jemanden auf die Finger schauen" = "To keep an eye on someone's fingers". Meaning to keep an eye on someone to prevent them from making mistakes. In the context of money, it could mean to make someone be frugal. "I really have to keep an eye on my friend's spending habits. He spends too much money on expensive clothes."
"Seine Finger im Spiel haben" = "To have one's fingers in the game". Meaning to have influence over something. In the context of money, it can mean two things. Firstly, it could mean gambling. "I have my fingers in the game. If I lose, I am broke." Secondly, it could mean bribery. "The trial was unfair. The plaintiff had his fingers in it and bribed the judge."
Another one:
„Fingerspitzengefühl haben“ = „To have fingertip feeling“ Meaning to have tact or to have a delicate touch. In the context of money it could mean having a knack for finances. „She has a talent for making hands out of digits. She has real fingertip feeling.“
Let them pay small stuff with "broken" fingers!
worldbuilding is fun because whenever someone makes a currency other people make creative slang to call people broke
Value of clipped coins are determined by weight and market value of the metals the original coins are made from
Wouldn't it be easier for a wartime economy to use base copper over bronze? Since bronze is normally a mixture of two different metals, tin and copper.
I love that currency, I will say that it seems like they are in a weird way TOO good to be everyday use items that are made in mass production, maybe make a wrapped version with the writing or symbols being chipped or faded, also this saying came immediately to my head.
"Give me a handful" it could mean give me 5 fingers
"It's a handful job" To do this is worth 5 fingers
You can also place wording for Merchants to a cruel world relating to big amounts of money as a great tragedy or maybe a magical effect can be used by spending 100 fingers which is how many fingers the god of magic has
This is super creative and sparks a lot of unique ideas. This world only becomes more and more interesting!
it was so cool to see how this idea grew
ive been subscribed since the start, and u kinda helped getting me into drawing, its quite relaxing. however when it comes to digital painting i have NO clue about the krita management, i know u say you dont like doing tutorials and that youre bad at them, but a "heres how i do it" instead of a *tutorial* would be AWESOME. because the way you go about the technical aspect of drawing on a tablet seems to be intreaguing to me. also lov ur drawings
what do you mean the technical aspects of drawing on a tablet? do you mean like what key binds i use to make it more efficient? or like technical like my method of drawing and how i shade cuz in that case i have no clue what im doing haha
@@monlenz haha, i was thinking more on krita with your digital setup(what bars and settings you have topggled), or what brushes you use, and canvas size and all that. cuz i really like your way of doing it, it would be fun to try and incorporate some of your elements.
@@monlenz Especially the brush settings maybe
"Pull your finger out" could, from it's original meaning of "get to doing something", mean to donate to a cause. Another, "standing around with your prick in your hands" could mean not doing anything with your money. Regarding Veruss, perhaps they use sticks or thread of varying length, tying with their tower focus? Could make for some interesting money storage techniques. If thread, clothes could be literally made of money for the very rich. "They took everything but the shirt off my back" could become "They took nothing but the shirt off my back".
Man I love this stuff, the sheer quality of the artwork, along with the fantastical yet still somewhat logical and grounded world building makes for such thrilling and engaging bits of lore and trinkets that really get me invested in this world.
The coin clipping thing would only work during the era in which gold and silver also existed in the coins. As you have it now, with all denominations being cast in bronze, weight wouldn't matter as the largest denomination wouldn't weigh much more than the smallest. The removal of gold and sliver from the currency effectively created an easily counterfeited fiat currency that would absolutely TANK the economy as everyone takes their smallest denominations and simply re casts them into the larger ones. when you can take two single value coins and cast them into a single HUNDRED value coin. your inflation would be out of control and no one would even use anything other than thumbs anymore.
yea i know the counterfeiting would be a problem, so im thinking of ways ram would combat it without adding more metals.
@@monlenz
There could be a fingerprint on each coin. Being unique, Fingerprints are the perfect thematic authenticator.
Sure, anyone can stamp a counterfeit finger, but only the Royal Molds safe in the Royal Mont have the King's Print.
Or perhaps the authentic coins are imprinted by the King/Chancellor of the Mint via magic with the aid of a wizard, and the counterfeits feature an inferior copy of the print produced via the mold.
The Printing Of the Coins could be a public legitimimation ritual, and could take any number if forms, from the creation of the Master Molds at the beginning of a Regime, or the collection and re-printing of coins from a previous one, to a peridoic check of all the coins to ensure that no bewitched coins have been introduced into the realm by its enemies.
Ive never thought about changing the shape of a coin, like fingers thats funky and i absolutely love it ❤❤ you really help me get inspired for my art so thankyou for that!
putting ur finger to your lip could be a way of showing youre thinking about buying something instead of shushing someone, like how you might rest ur cheek on your hand when deciding on something
Flipping the coins as a way of determining things by chance could be called heads or nails.
I love finger money
Great worldbuilding, as always. Maybe it was a deliberate decision, but just to be sure: remember to flip the thumb when showcasing both sides of the coin, given that it is not symetrical. I love your work!
wups haha
I really love this concept. Perhaps there could be a blood magic cult that will do a very literal exchange for those most destitute. If you give them a digit and the blood of it's wound, you will be given a coin of equivalent type. Calling a specific string intended to hold coins on a 'Palm' would be pretty cool way of naming a simple string too. Perhaps losing a hand would be considered something to be exiled over, as a man without a hand can hold no fingers, and therefore cannot contribute to society/the war.
I have a similar system! My world's main metal source is the race of golems that are buried beneath the surface of the world. Because of this, metal is measured in digits, fingers, fists, etc.
Your creativity, good sir, never ceases to amaze
Swedish also has "Håller tummarna" literally "Holding thumbs" meaning rooting for someone.
Man this is sick
how has nobody mentioned the possibilities of
"heads or nails"
LIKE CMON ITS PEFECT
Everything you make is at the same time outlandishly strange and immediately familiar.
First
No views? Monstergarden falling off fr.
It's really interesting to see all the creative phrases in the comments, y'all are brilliant
Number 14; Severed Finga
in dutch weve got a saying called "having a finger in the stew", which means to have influence over something
in the context of your coins it could refer more specifically to lobbying or bribery
This video has actually inspired me to make my own unconventionally shaped coins. I came up with the idea of petals, flower shaped coins. I don’t know if they’re already a thing though.
Got jumpscared when he started speaking german :o
You can bring a lot of history into the designs as well:
For one there may be coins with different exact motifs depending on where and when they were coined. I'd expect the Thumb for example to depict the respective class of worker that was deemed the most important by those overseeing the process. Other cultures may have also co-opted these coins because they were so widespread, but replacing the religious iconography with their own mystical kings and heroes.
And the longer those kinds of coins are in circulation, the more abstract they may become. People can easily identify them by shape, so over time the organic details on the "tails" side may get replaced with other symbolism. In some cases they may end up covered in entire prayers, others may depict plants, animals or items from prominent myths, or simply information about when, where and under whose reign they were coined. The general shape of early ones would also be much more anatomically correct, with later ones gradually getting simplified, until you eventually end up with very rectangular shapes.
Somewhere down the line a culture may even fuse the Finger and Pinky into a set of roughly finger-shaped coins of different sizes, denoting their value with a number pressed into them. That would effectively make the original Finger and Pinky the equivalents to 10 and 1 cent coins respectively, to the curved Thumb as a dollar/euro equivalent. The original inventors wouldn't be happy about it, with it muddying the underlying concept - but at that point their currency had grown beyond their control.
"Lend me a hand" Could refer to asking someone to lend you some money, or a predetermined specific amount such as 1 thumb, 3 fingers and 1 pinky.
"It cost me a hand and a foot" or "It cost me my hands and feet" could have the same meaning as "It cost me an arm and a leg"
Adding feminine fingers could advance the nail clipping concept by way of feminine coins having longer nails you'd get a higher yield to the clippings.
That "i bet my finger on you" kinda slaps in the context and worldbuilding
The expression makes sense and the story behind it is beautifully crafted
that sudden german caught me so off guard holy shit
I'd suggest the speaker holding a symbol in front of their mouth, representing the "holy" word derived from their listening and delivered by them
Coins with holes in them is simply optimal design, looks amazing
"Let's decide it with a cointoss. Tips or nails?"
I wasnt prepared for the perfect german jumpscare omg