How does Plastic Glue work? What's in the bottle and what does it do?
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- The science of plastic glue / plastic cement.
A conversation about what plastic glue actually is, combined with some fun hobby experiments.
Do you actually need to buy expensive plastic glue to put your models together???
These questions are addressed:
What is plastic glue?
How to make plastic glue?
Which plastic glue is best?
Is plastic glue safe?
How does plastic cement work?
More Goobertown!
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As a high school chemistry teacher, and a giant nerd, I love your videos! Watched them all in one sitting!
Oh hey I missed this comment earlier - thanks for watching! I'm a chemist myself and I'm trying to make a whole series of hobby science videos, but I keep getting distracted with painting models :-)
I work for CAS - glad to see chemists on RUclips! 😉
Brent WHY does it feel so much like i'm watching PBS. all your videos are so good.
Thanks Zane! Gotta get you that PBS learnin.
HOLY CRIMANY!!! I just paid $5 for a 1oz bottle of Testors Liquid Cement when I could have bought 32 oz of Methyl Ethyl Ketone for $12! This is amazing. Thank you!
I think the Tamiya Extra Thin Cement uses Acetone for several reasons:
1) The Acetone mixes well with the n-Butyl Acetate (like in like);
2) Acetone has a lower viscosity (at 25C, roughly 0.3 vs 0.7 cp), so improves flow. This is the "thin" moniker.
3) Acetone has a lower boiling point (132.8°f vs 258.8°f), so will more readily vaporize, giving a quicker dry time.
Any plastic debonding by the acetone is tertiary to the other property improvements it gives.
Great overview!
I love all the outros with the cats!
Hahaha I'm glad someone appreciates the cats :-) I take a lot of footage for these videos, and there's normally some cats left over. Stick a cat clip at the end and call it good. In this video Snuffles actually helped out by stress-testing the joint strength.
@@GoobertownHobbies ya, love cats!! Thanks for I including them!!
In college we were told to use xylene or MEK for styrene prototype model building, and use whichever one we liked best. The rationale for doing this is reliably consistent results and they are widely available solvents. Once you get a good feel for which one you like, you know exactly how it behaves. As you've explained, different brands use different recipes, so behavior between different products intended for the same purpose can be significantly different. A gallon of either solvent costs $50-$60, and if stored properly, will last the average model builder for decades.
that's some good advice- what kind of school did you go to for that? model school?
@@GoobertownHobbies Industrial design and engineering. It was back in the 80s, when we still built physical models early in the design process. Lots of sheet styrene, vac forming, mold making, etc. along with hand fabrication in steel, glass, rubber, etc. starting with conceptual models all the way to fully functional prototypes. Styrene is actually a really handy material for short run mold making. In addition to the models themselves, it works well for building green sand molds as well as burn-out investment casting of parts in aluminum, bronze, or resin.
@@fxm5715 very cool!!
Sadly the cancer won't last that long.
Hey Brent. Have you ever considered doing a video like this, but for the various mediums that we use? Just in acrylics alone there's a bunch of stuff, and it's hard to know what's just branding, and what has an actual different effect on the pigment when it's being applied to the mini. I, for one, would love to see a scientific break-down of that particular patch of briars :)
I work in a big box home store and your videos really help me understand products so I can give good recommendations to customers. Thank you 😁
great info and answered a lot of questions i had as a beginner model hobbyist. Thank you!
When I was making such models, the only glue to use with them came in a tube and was clearly some kind of gelled solvent. It was famous for its fumes. When I bought a model for my nephew and his dad, some years ago now, the glue was in a locked case and I had to get a store manager to unlock it.
I've never seen a brush-on from a bottle, or anything remotely "thin" like some of the bottles are labeled. This kind of glue must have come on the scene recently.
i just found your channel recently, you are so chill and awesome and i have just started my new set of 7 plague marines for warhammer, my first time building any type of mini like this and you're videos are super helpful, i just wanted to write this comment to give a sincere thank you and tell you keep doing good work. The few that i've built today, i just can't describe the feeling of satifaction i get, it's amazing! thank you!
the content you are making is in depth and insightful. super glad i found your channel
SO well put together! Thanks for the easy explanation. I am often amazed at other Artists videos and their teaching techniques, I have taught a few classes in my time and there is a definite knack to doing it well! I am sure one of the reasons your videos are so highly rated is your method and attitude, your melodious voice does not hurt you either! I will let the playlist continue!
I learned something today. I have a bun of Gunpla runners laying around, and I have a gallon of solvents. I'm going to make my own plastic cement for modeling. Thanks for this video.
How did it turn out mate? Im making some today from Xylene and trying ABS
Great !
Not only opinions but facts.
Thanks
Right on! I'm going to keep going with the hobby science series. It won't get as many views as the videos with bright colors, but I hope it will be a good resource.
Keep those vids coming pal, they are very informative and very few ppl in the miniature world bother explaining this kinda stuff. Thank you!
Thanks Charles!! I figure that more people will watch the fun painting videos, but somebody needs to be making educational content like this :-)
I have an episode about cyanoacrylate glues ~80% done that I need to draw up some chemical reaction mechanisms for to finish off. Hopefully I get around to posting that one soon.
Man you have a guide for all of my needs in this hobby. Thanks heaps!
Fantastic channel, great work!!! It sounds like you have a PhD in chemistry, and more videos of this nature are needed.
Thanks Andrey! I've got several more Hobby Science videos under construction.
Thank you! Acetone plus the sprue from a model kit will create a color matched glue. I love learning stuff.
I use regular Tamiya Brush Plastic Glue as well as Revel Needle Plastic Glue.
Solid. For me it's all about finding an applicator that you like :-)
Thanks again. Re-baseing some minis and wanted to make sure I get a strong bond. This helped me choose what to use.
A chemistry lab is a great place to shop. Not only scintillation vials, but Parafilm, transfer pipettes, small plastic cups, needles (great for scale gun barrels), gas chromatography capillaries (great for whip antennae), and all sorts of other pieces and packaging to serve as greeblies.
I grew up with Testors gel cement and have gotten pretty handy with it; the stringiness is the main gripe. I use Tamiay brush cement a lot, now.
Problem is, my Stash Acquired Beyond Life Expectancy (SABLE) index is now 26, meaning I need to live 26 years beyond my life expectancy of 90 in order to finish all the models I have in my stash. Challenge accepted!
Nicely done man. There are not a lot of videos out there talking glues for the Miniatures side of the hobby. Glad to see one covering all the bases.
I've been using liquids for a good 18 years, mostly Tenax-7R, Ambroid Pro-weld, and Tamiya Extra Thin. I recently discovered Plastic Magic from Deluxe Materials. I highly recommend it.
I'm glad it was useful! Thanks for this list, I'll check them out. I've got a superglue chemistry episode coming out sometime in the next month or two, stay tuned :-)
@@GoobertownHobbies that is a good idea as well, looking forward to it. I personally only use superglues now mostly for attaching basing materials. I pretty much only deal in plastics, so plastic magic is all I need.
Which reminds me, the thick goop you made with the sprue is commonly called "sprue goo" in the modeling community. Its brushed on to seams and gaps as a filler instead of using putty. The sprue goo is less messy and can be cleaned, worked, filed and sanded just like the plastic of the model. Most just use the dregs of their Tamiya Extra Thin to make it, but I'd never thought to use the stuff from the hardware store instead, probably a lot cheaper than a bottle of Tamiya Extra Thin in the long run.
@@assembly_language3948 Oh nice! I'm always looking for better filling techniques :-) I'll have to put this sprue goo to good use!
What do you use to apply the sprue glue? toothpick? old paintbrush? I played around a little and I wasn't having very fine control with it.
@@GoobertownHobbies Most just use the brush that comes in the Tamiya Extra Thin. I use an old (18 years now) natural hair brush, though once this bottle of Plastic Magic is empty, I plan to use that brush as I find it better than even the Tamiya IMHO
This content is so great, the explanations have me getting more and more into chemistry by the video. Great work.
Nice!!! I'm glad you're liking the science :-)
This video was very helpful to my understanding, thank you very much!
You got me looking into Hildebrand Solubility Parameter, which has helped me to explain a phenomena at my job (why a solvent works better at dissolving a wax compared to others).
One caution is that some paint thinners contain some of the solvents that are good at dissolving polystyrene (like Xylene).
Otherwise, this was a really good video and I enjoyed it.
That's a very good point, not all paint thinners are created equal. I certainly don't want to accidentally encourage someone to melt their army!
I'll have to look up the Hildebrand solubility parameter myself, thanks for mentioning it. Part of the reason I make these videos is to learn new things, and these are the kind of comments that help me learn!
One of my next videos will be on cyanoacrylate polymerization (superglue). I welcome your critique of that as well :-)
I have been waiting for this for years. You can not find videos on glues. I can't thank you enough!
Great information! I knew that most glues were MEK based but I was unaware of the other chemicals such as Toluene. Lots of good science and I am looking forward to more science based tutorials like this. Thanks for sharing this information. The cat really liked the runner figures.
Thanks! I'm working on a super glue science episode next.
Would love to see a video on the various plastics used to make models pvc Vs polystyrene Vs reaper bones Vs their new bones black. How various casting methods impacts them. Also resin and the cure process for forge world etc.
Thanks for this bit of perfection and kindness
This was very informative, and helpful. I had heard that plastic glue bonds plastic pieces together, but never with much detail on how or why. I recently bought that Tamiya glue featured in this video for the brush applicator after years of using generic plastic glue with whatever local tabletop store's name printed on the label. I haven't had a chance to use Tamiya's glue yet, but I'm glad to know that it will glue in a similar fashion with what seems like a much preferable storage bottle and applicator. Those generic plastic glue bottles all suffered the same fate of slowly drying in the nozzle creating frustrating clogs, or even worse gunking up the cap so that they did not seal tightly and drying up what's left of the bottle's contents. Now I can glue with more confidence in the results. Just well ventilate your work space, and all should be well enough to not worry much.
I'm glad the video was useful! It's always fun to figure out if there are any real differences between the brands other than packaging. In the case of Tamiya glue, I think the packaging is worth it- hopefully you enjoy using that brush also :-)
A great video, thank you. The experiments were fascinating and helpful.
Glad you liked it! I love a good timelapse :-)
Very helpful, thank you!
Maybe a video on the science of how miniature paint works? Great content! Keep up the good work :)
Absolutely! Acrylic miniature paint is high on my list. I'll make that video once I feel like I really understand the topic well and can make a video that's worthwhile.
Bit late to the party, but I loved this! I'm a biochemist myself and great to see some science in the hobby!
Great video Brent. Would love to see more "Hobby Science" content.
Your videos are great. Thanks again!
Thanks, I'm so glad that you like them!
Excellent content, learned some very useful tips!
insightful stuff that kept me glued to the screen.
😆
Epic video, deserves alot more views! Thanks Brent!
I’m an avid modeler & I learned much from your video - and now how to save cash!! I can but a large jug of solvent for a reasonable price or blow way more per mL on a aesthetically pleasing square bottle with a green lid and tiny paint brush!! Thank you !! Although I do like the tiny brush too!
That was really good. Thank you very much. You've earn my subscription.
Wow that was crazy to watch. This was interesting I never even thought of running this experiment I love this series idea and I'm eager for more!
This may end up being my favorite series on the channel. I'm a chemist and there really is not excuse for me to be ignorant about all these bottles on my hobby desk :-) A a superglue episode is next in this series.
@@GoobertownHobbies excellent I will stay tuned! I could tell you obviously sound like you've had some serious training.
Amazing, thank you!
Great videos, thanks for your time and effort. well earned likes and subscriptions!
You sir...… Are RAD! Happy New Year and I'm glad I stumbled across your channel. Thanks!
Happy New Year!
Superb video!
Great job.
Well that was fascinating. Thank You.
awesome video more hobby science please!!
I'm glad you like it! More of these are in the works, I just keep getting distracted with other video ideas :-) Cyanoacrylate glue is next.
super interesting!
right? :-)
Best video I've seen all month
cant ask for more, thank you!
This video probably saved a lot of my minis. I bought some Plaid Liquid Leaf because I wanted to see what it looked like on metallic parts. I've only used it on my PLA 3d printed minis at this point. Thank goodness I haven't used it on others yet. It's mostly xylene and should probably be spot tested before I go crazy with it. I would have never given it a second thought before this video. My minis and me thank you greatly!
Cool beans! We'll make some other mistakes, but it's nice to sidestep a few. Have fun! :-)
Very informative video! Could you use the products from the hardware store to create a product like a gap-filler when mixed with polystyrene? Would be very nice to fill in polystyrene gaps with a polystyrene gel or something.
Hey, Brent. I really, really appreciate your "hobby science" videos and have an idea for another topic.
Resin models drive most of us crazy because they're so fiddly, but we have to work with them on occasion. While assembling my last resin model, I cracked one of the pieces and would love to know the best way to repair it non-mechanically. Is there a solvent that works on resin to fuse it like organic solvents do for polystyrene? If not, which adhesive is most effective?
Great video. This was eye-opening. I thought Acetone was the be all end all plastic melter.
Thank you!
Wow, this is great!!!
Thanks! I hope it was useful :-)
Now I'm wondering if I can dump some leftover sprues into solvent, then pour the resulting gel into a mold... and make new parts?
Do it! after that "sprue goo" dried the plastic was exactly like the plastic it started as. I'm sure there are challenges with making a mold that won't dissolve, getting the finished piece to release from the mold, and little bubbles in the plastic from evaporation... but it's definitely worth trying! Let us know if you come up with anything good :-)
That, or you could recycle all the sprues into a sheet instead of buying the ones in stores. Fascinating stuff.
Will Fischer main problem here would be evaporation, because a mold is a closed space which makes it hard for the solvent to get out. If you have a vacuum chamber, though, and pull the vacuum slowly to avoid splashing this just might work
It may shrink.
m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3093920597303159&id=100000557486016
He said he use Polyurethane thinner to melt the sprue wait for 1 day, degas it everyday for a month and use it.
Ethyl Acetate are also used as polyurethane thinner.
Just finished watching Jon's video from a few days ago and was reading through the comments, saw a back and forth about plastic cement and thought "You know, I think Brent ought to do a video on plastic glue."
Gave it a quick search and of course you already have. :)
Great video my guy. Very informative. Love the inclusion of your cat. Definitely a nice touch. Keep up the good work!
I wanted to share - if anyone ends up gluing something wrong or upside down and you notice later - try prying it open a bit with a knife or whatever and then pour on some white spirit - the stuff you've got for oil washes - it somehow infiltrates the weld from the glue and makes it MUCH easier and cleaner to undo the cement.
My apologies for posting on an old video of yours. But I discovered you by accident and am now looking to get into the miniature hobby. Great work Brent and you are now my favorite RUclipsr. My question is whether these glues also work on Resin models?
Late reply, but in case anyone reads this, no they don't work on resin.
Very helpful
Thank you, Brent! I knew acetone worked and MEK worked but I didn't know the substitute worked! I wish I saw this before I got the acetone. oh well, it works but now I know better.
great video!
Thanks..Brent. Maybe you could suggest what are the best glues to use for clear plastic to prevent fogging. .. Like on aircraft canopies or windshields on car models. ?
And Knowing Is Half the Battle.
Hi Brent! I think I discovered your channel too recenlty and never had the opportunity to see your hobby science videos until very recently! Fantastic work! Thanks for putting together explanations that are understandable for regular people.
When I saw your videos, it gave me the idea to make myself some sprue goo to fill the uuuuugly assembly gaps on push-fit minis like the death priest from Cursed City. I think I got this idea from Ninjon's channel. As I dont have many pricy glue bottles to sacrifice, I tried to do it by mixing Warhammer sprue leftovers with chemicals from my local hardware store. I have found acetate butyl and acetone. I tried both (and a 50/50 mix of acetate butyl and acetone) but the result is pretty disappointing, as the resulting mixture seems to have 2 phases, non miscible. Melted sprues make a very thick, barely liquid, dough at the bottom of the jar and solvent seems to float above. It is so thick that it is totally unusable.
Am I doing something incorrect? The result is the same whatever the quantity of sprues I add in the jar.
Any help from a Chemistry PhD would be appreciated :)
Heyo! It might just be the solvents you chose to use. Acetone doesn't work as well as some of the other solvents I used in this video. I know that the thick plastic cement from companies like testors smells a LOT like xylenes/ toluene. MEK and "MEK substitute" also seemed to work well
@@GoobertownHobbies thanks for your answer! I’ll make further experiments and let you know the outcome !
I’ve tried a thorough stirring it n the acetate butyl jar, and it seems to improve the result.
Very interesting! I wonder if your polistyrene gel can be used for casting...
I want to try this also :-) From that little pour I did in the video there were definitely some air bubbles in the solid plastic, but it felt pretty much as durable as brand new models. Also we need to figure out what to use as a mold... Let me know if you give this a try!
@@GoobertownHobbies Yep, it would be a very interesting experiment, you could perhaps use a basic plaster mould as thats an easy air set plaster, possibly not that easy to cut into without distroying it though. You can buy plaster material in a roll form, the type they use to set broken bones, the material could perhaps hold the mould together much better. Also regarding the bubbles, agitation could perhaps loosen those or not sure if it would work the same but if you use a kitchen torch or plumbers torch you can remove the bubbles from resin by heating it, it also gives it a much clearer nicer finish. I was originally going to suggest polymer clay as thats a very easy one to get a hold of but the polymer aspect quite possibly would melt with the contact with the solvent but perhaps not once it was baked and lined with an oil, like cooking oil perhaps to reduce sticking?
Brilliant videos thank you. I'm starting to build a furnace boiler to generate super heated steam. there are lots of youtube videos about the best heat resistant materials but most if not all are just re-vids on what somebody else who doesn't know what they are doing, I am thinking of using fine plastering sand as the insulator with porcelain tiles facing the furnace itself. would superglue with powdered graphite stand up to extreme heat? thanks again john
Dude I asked myself how can I melt some minis or Spurs.. your video is da bomb on that note thanks for like taking all the effort out of the equation!!!🤣 Your awesome and the video is presented extreamly well without the use of bells and whistles!🤔
I am not surprised the Acetone did not totally dissolve the stick. In 3D printing one of the methods for smoothing ABS models is Acetone(well usually Acetone vapors), Fun note the vapors can also defog some headlamps when the plastic gets worn on an older car.
important note, ventilation when doing this. and probably respirator. but absolutely good ventilation or doing it outside, the vapors are not good for you and well flammable.
Also makes me wonder if ABS glue from the plumbing section could work on models.
50 years ago I remember using NOTOX model glue and it was too slow and too weak. I believe that used D-Limonene.
More of these science based video's please, I really didn't expect to learn something so interesting when I clicked on this video. SO, if I got this right, Please correct me if I am wrong but I could simply buy Mentholated Spirits or Acetate as an effective glue and refill my useful tamiya applicator included bottles?
I have a question for you, but before that... I have to tell you that i really appreciated you videos.
Well... to avoid excessive suspence... my question is: what kind of adehesive do you recommend for 3D resins?
Thanks
Brent great video! I've been watching all of yours lately! Can you theoretically make your own cement by just taking MEK and adding some clear acrylic sprue to thicken it up? Seems like a great way to make use of my old Testors jar!
absolutely! xylenes if you want it to smell more like testors cement :-)
@@GoobertownHobbies I do love that 'I'm getting brain damage" smell!
The Mr. Wizard/Bill Nye of minis!
Yeah buddy!
Very nice video Brent. Thank you very much. I am trying to glue styrene with styrene, bending it around 90 degrees. Using MEK the aggressiveness is so big that it breaks/tear the piece. Do you know how to drop the aggressiveness of the MEK to not tear the styrene so easily?
Bah, worked with a tonne of xylene and didn't realize I could top up my glue. I love the smell of citadel glue so I'll have to check out if we have any MEK in my new place
I like the testors needle tip bottle, though it clogs from time to time
When my Tamiya glue gets too thick I pour in some acetone to thin it out, so it turns out not the best solvent for polystyrene .... huh... I'm gonna try to get a bottle of MEK or xylene for future. Thank you so much, you have answered a 40 year old question for me LOLZ.
So can you melt sprues and cast more minis with the gel?
Loving these science videos. Did you change the way you speak since making this video? I feel like the tone has become more relaxing and soothing. Or perhaps it was a different mic setup than what you currently have?
oh yeah, this was one of the very first videos I made, I got a new mic shortly after this, and things have evolved a bit :-)
@@GoobertownHobbies Ok got it. Well, it's great to see your evolution. I really enjoy your videos and am inspired. I just got into the painting aspect of Warhammer miniatures, but I love building terrain as well.
Are you gonna do one about acrylic paint thinners?
Could we please see more chemistry behind the evaporation and final polystyrene?
someday I'll get better at drawing, but the chemisty is actually pretty straightforward since there are no covalent bonds being made or broken. Just a bit of plastic partially dissolving in the solvent and moving around, then the solvent evaporates and leaves the polymer strands entangled :-)
Every other hobbyist out there who persists in incorrectly stating that model cements "melt" the plastic together should be required to watch this video. Melting requires heat.
Yep, I'm trying to put some more hobby science into the world :-)
@@GoobertownHobbies Great job! Are you a teacher?
What about Cyanoacrylate? i have had pretty fantastic results using it to glue Minis together.
Good question! A video about cyanoacrylate is almost ready. You just motivated me to finish it up and post it in the next few weeks :-) But yes, super glue is convenient for minis.
@@GoobertownHobbies Yes please, I bought one of these glues, a Deluxe Super Phatic Glue and couldn't find any information on this type of glue.
The cat is awesome
I wish I saw this before I waited so long for my MR.Hobby Cement.
What about Resin and the other plastics that minis are being made from these days?
i want to glue hard plastic that is waterproof what would you use?
What I don't understand, if they are designed to stick together styrene, why do most of the glues contain styrene as an ingredient? So, would it be that the polystyrene is not strictly needed but a nice addition and instead the solvent unbinds the molecules of the adjoining plastics and as the solvent evaporates, the molecules rebinds as a intermingled singular solid?
Those cats are so f’ing cute 😂
Would the solvents eat the brush in the nail polish bottles if stored there over time?
Hey Brent. I added sprues to a bottle of testers to make that gel consistency but after application it stayed soft and I could l not sand it. Any advice?
So could you use sprue goo as a substitute for resin when casting a model? When I've seen people try it (to copy terrain pieces) the result is chunky, but they all used acetone I think. Some of your other solvents get such a smooth result that I'm wondering how well that type of sprue goo compares to an off-the-shelf resin product (and what the chemical differences are)?
It can be done, but I think it'll be verrrry hard to avoid air bubbles as the solvent is evaporating.
@@GoobertownHobbies ahh yeah that makes sense! In some other videos about using sprue goo I've seen people struggling with air bubbles. Also makes sense that resin for casting would be designed to have a consistency that allows air bubbles to migrate out.
@@GoobertownHobbies If it dries instead of reacting it would also dry from the outside in right. That seems problematic for bigger moldings. But you might be able to do something similar to clay slib molding (also evaporative), where you aply it as a coating on the inside of the mold for hollow pieces.
Where does lacquer thinner fit in?
I was wondering if you have any information on solvent glues for 3d prints, especially for pla and Petg. I know acetone works great for ABS. and have has some success for PLA with some but not all plastic solvent glue.
I am often mixing purchased models (polystyrene) with PLA, I suppose CA glue is best for dissimilar plastics, but I like the working time of solvent glues better, it is easier to get proper alignment.