leetify.com/voo apparently optimum actually specified the human error was set at 50ms, my bad. regardless the point was to determine what the human error actually is
I understand both perspectives. On one hand its like jump binds where its a script yes but we all use it. On the other its been banned for a long time and allowing it now just feels wrong. Also THE HUMAN ERROR IS SPECIFIED AT 50MS WATCH THE DAMN VIDEO AGAIN.
@@hdhejehwkaje6542 lmao i'm not annoyed at the video but rather the multiple people whose counter-argument is "what do you mean it gives you only 10-20ms? optimum's video says 60-70ms idiot" if you read the youtube comment i show when mentioning beginners overrating snap tap, i read that just before recording that bit lmao
@@vooCSGO I believe that they allow to use to through a keyboard because they cannot detect it and maybe it's a different case for the console commands. And if they cannot detect it it should be allowed to anyone one in my opinion cause you don't want to give an untrackable advantage to players when it's not that a big of a deal
Question: if it's not a big deal... Why are null binds banned? There is no logical reason why that should be banned if this is allowed or if this is not a big deal.
Firstly, it's only in ESEA league that you're talking about. In normal CS2 premier, competitive and Faceit these binds are allowed and you cannot get VAC banned. Secondly, I think it's not necessarily the null binds themselves, it just the ESEA rules say you can't have any complex binds beside basic jump throw and something that toggles on/off or x/y
i'm more of the stance of it's fairly reasonable if both or neither are legal, though i'd lean towards neither being legal. advantage doesn't need to be large to be an advantage.
@@vooCSGOwhile I understand that “advantage mindset” if they say this is illegal then what’s stopping ppl from arguing that being able to buy better pc parts then me is legal? Why can you have 400 fps but I can only have say 100 . Or your monitor is 360 hz which is better than my say 60 hz Or even mouse 4K polling but mine can only do 1k? Everyone can buy this keyboard, it’s up to them to either buy it or use weaker product.
@@SanityJLthis is actually a good argument, some people with 240hz monitor and crazy fast computer will have an advantage over you, so I feel like these keyboards shouldn't be illegal
only in counter-strike would leagues BAN the console command accessible within the game to everybody but NOT the pay2win keyboards that do the exact same thing
@@daotpekeexactly, razer products are advertised as "ESL Gaming Officially Licensed peripherals". Wooting simply enabled the feature because they were forced to by razer
optimum specified the amount of human error and clarified that it would give a bigger advantage the more error there was, so it makes sense that it would be way more effective for beginners than pros. this would allow beginners to skip learning this skill for the most part and spend more time learning and mastering other aspects of the game which is a huge advantage.
Beginners would still have terrible counterstrafing with this even with optimum's assumption of frankly ridiculuous amount of overlap. You still have to press the keys and have a good timing. And mostly importantly, NOT SHOOTING WHILE MOVING
yeah the only problem is his floor of 50ms seems to be closer to the ceiling of overlap than the floor. I should've really delved into this more but it does seem like it's way less skill level dependent than you'd think in terms of the amount of overlap. it seems like some people are just good at it and some people aren't, kinda like the concerthotels got rhythm thing if you've tried it. practice obviously helps a bit but some people got it and some people dont
@vooCSGO This is cope, if the null bind script didn't give any advantage it wouldn't have been banned for all those years. Even if it was irrelevant for players who already mastered counter strafing (it's probably not), it's still a massive advantage for new players learning the game.
@@tegmiles it's not a massive advantage because A D overlap is arguably the least important aspect of counter strafing. This feature is probably most effective if you are at intermediate level e.g. know how to counterstrafe and developed a habit for it but you still haven't perfected the timings. But imo rapid trigger and analog/hall switches >>>>> null binds
I actually highly rated snap tap and null binds a few weeks ago but after using them for a while I switched off them because im player who holds the opposite key too long when i counter strafe which snap tap does really help with and because of that my movement felt off in more situations than snap tap actually helped.
imo rapid trigger was a much bigger advantage than snap tap.... I think it's being blown out of proportion. People are waaaay overstating how hard it is to counter strafe in all sorts of forums, reddit etc. People act like to play competitive cs, it will take you hundreds of hours to learn counter strafing. the reality is that any decent gamer out there can learn the simple concept of tapping the opposite direction to slow down quicker within hours. people play all sorts of crazy games with complex combos and frame perfect inputs, but somehow holding a and then tapping d is this ultra hard thing that you wont know how to do unless you;ve played for 1000 hours. people in silver are counter strafing just fine. consider this: in valorant, the difference between counter strafing and not counter strafing is about ~9-14ms, yet it is widely accepted that counter strafing is not needed in that game. many pros do not counter strafe and many radiants do not counter strafe in valorant. So despite a 14ms advantage, some of the games top players dont do it.... and here we see snap tap helping pro's counter strafing by less than 10ms. it's just not a big advantage plain and simple. now for modes like kz and bhop, yea sure this is a waaay bigger advantage than someone without it, but in standard cs it just really isn't that big of a deal. You are going to get a few ms faster counter strafes, but you're still gonna suck at the game (not you voo, the generic "you")
For me it's not about 'snap tap' being OP or anything like that, it more of the precedent it sets and because of that it needs to be banned. Snap tap is not a hardware feature, it's just software(null binds) and instead of being part of your config, it's just baked into the keyboards firmware. A software feature that targets a very specific mechanic of the game, counter strafing. And for me that's just too much, even if the advantage is tiny. I really don't think the people going "well what's next, a mouse that controls recoil for you?" are too far off. "Philosophically" it's not much different than snap tap, especially now with the follow recoil option for your crosshair. I could easily see a script that uses that and 'forces' your aim to center on the crosshair, get built into mice to handle recoil.
The auto-recoil control on a mouse comparison is flawed because that would be like the keyboard automatically counter strafing for you when you release the key.
@@Elite_Ace I'm not saying it's a 1:1 thing, but that's why allowing the snap tap is such a slippery slope. And it is doing half of the counter strafe for you, it's releasing the original key you were using for you.
snaptap is a hardware feature. Unlike normal keyboard that just detect if the key is pressed down or not, these keyboards constantly poll the key position and the hardware inside then converts those position into key presses. Normal keyboards have no idea how far down the key is pressed and no amount of software will change that. When you open the keyboard software on your computer and make changes it then uploads those changes to the keyboard.
its next to impossible to detect without manual review of the gameplay. I can almost guarantee a software update at some point that will incorporate snap-tap into the game itself. It's probably the only way to keep online and in person tournaments both fair and consistent.
@@ameliekk no, that is just an analog keyboard switch, wooting started that over five years ago now. Snap tap is just null binds built into the keyboards firmware. The nature of analog switches certainly enhance the potential advantage of null binds but what snap tap is doing can be done on a normal keyboard through null binds in your autoexec
ive been using null binds in cs for 3-4 years because i was into kz and had around 1-2 overlap usually on strafes/ljs, etc. ive played on faceit with it many times without knowing it was supposedly banned. only reason i still use them is because i never could be arsed to exec another config to remove the null binds, and it is what ive been playing with in kz for a long time, so no reason to change
completely agree with this vid, i think to fully abuse snap tap you have to change the way you move in any game to realise the benefits which is going to be super unnatural for experienced players. However a game like overwatch where is movement is much quicker and arcadey could be much easier to adapt to with snap tap since a lot of the movement is just spam A and D
This, this is why I feel like people are over exaggerating the issue of snap tap / socd. In a game like CS, for experienced players this will not do much unless they completely change their play style. I feel it might benefit certain types of players. If scream still played CS I feel he would benefit a lot from this type of movement because of how much he relies on aggressive counter strafes and his one taps
Yesterday I decided to disable all the “assisting” features from my wooting keyboard such as Rapid trigger and SOCD. I even made my actuation 1.5 to match my old keyboard. After making the changes, I felt as if my strafing got better and it would actually do what I would tell it to do. Felt better just disabling everything after months of owning the keyboard!
Exactly what I think. It doesn'T matter how big of an advantage this truly gives you because it raises an essential question. Where do you draw the line when something suddenly isn't considered cheating anymore because your hardware can do it by default? A nullbind is essentially the same thing but that is considered cheating. Why? If this keyboard isn't cheating then neither is a nullbind and vice versa.
It's actually delusional that some people compared Snap Tap to good pc / good internet / 540hz monitors. All of those just help reducing latency instead of ALTERING THE INPUT for you.
Ok, after playing with SOCD for about a week now, I feel like in CS2 it didn’t change that much for me. This is because I already had pretty good counter strafing. In Valorant however, where my movement was ass beforehand, it actually improved my movement so much my skill level became at least a full rank higher…
@@gimmix9478it does tho, even optimum showed it in his video. you stop around half a players model faster when you counterstrafe as opposed to when you let go. its not a lot, but considering that null binds/socd makes you stop 1-2 frames faster it is still an advantage
Another solution: Valve implements last input wins in the game itself. Since it's not a big deal, that's not a bad decision, and will render any scripts or keyboard software irrelevant if it does the same thing, and also wouldn't need to moderate people using scripts or keyboard software for SOCD either.
As you pointed out though, leetify strafe accuracy is not equal to how quickly you counterstrafe. I think it's a metric you can look at, but I think a new measurement needs to be added of 'counterstrafe deadtime' or something, which is the amount of time you waste, either in overlapped keys, or gap in presses when counterstrafing. My counterstrafe accuracy is one of the highest of my friends (20k+ / 1800 - 2500 elo+), but that doesn't mean what some people think it does.
What is your counter-strafe accuracy percentage on Leetify? I'm 14k and 95% current period and 93% previous. I don't know how they get these numbers. It even says my aim and utility usage is better then lvl 10 average....
@@michallideswhat is your time to damage? You could have almost 100% accuracy in leetify's counterstrafing metric if you take a long time to start shooting. 90% and above values are already pretty rare even among pros because they know to win engagements they have to be extremely quick doing damage in like 450-500ms whereas you might be taking 650-700 for example, it makes a big difference.
i got the razer keyboard and didnt notice much different with snaptap and for about 4 days now that i can guess, iv actually been playing with it off without realizing cuz i checked when watching this and it was off . my counter strafe % on leetify never really changed average is still 91-93% like it been for a while. but like youve said ppl who are worse to begin with will see more improvement so i think if anything, worse players are going to be harder to punish for bad strafes cuz the keyboard does part of it for them if your read this thank for reading my yap sesh
I think you're right Voo. The only major difference it would make is to new players and the minor difference to pros it makes is huge since it is at that level of competition. However, for the rest of us (and pros), after playing CS for 10+ years, we've all been practicing each individual aspect of this game to attempt to perfect it. We have been practicing and playing at the best we can with our counter strafing skill as it is. I don't know if this is really beneficial. To take out human error would be to remove what we expect from our own strafes. Essentially what I'm trying to say is, we've been strafing with human error and trying to perfect it so by now we know what our strafes are like and to have this keyboard do it for you seems like it could actually be a hindrance. Unless of course we all picked one up and started perfecting the snap strafe. But at that point, why not make a mouse that aims for you. Or better yet, lets just get bots with all perfect inputs to vs each other and watch that for pro league.
I've been saying this since I heard about it, it just isn't that big of a deal that people think, that overwatch example was probably the craziest usage of the feature
People are focusing on the wrong aspect of the game that nullbind/sodc is giving an advantage to. As you get better at this games, counter strafing becomes muscle memory and getting “quicker” at doing it doesn’t necessarily give you as much of an advantage as your overall aim and positioning. What this does give a HUGE advantage on is jiggle movement. Because it is exponentially faster to spam a single key on and off than it is to alternate between toggling on and off two separate keys. This is now approaching inhuman ability that relies on an external source to improve. Equivalent to the Hitbox for the fgc.
And even then it's not very critical with CS movement physics. However in Overwatch, where there's no inertia and only linear movement it's pretty broken
Why do people always ignore the physics of CS? Acceleration curve doesn't allow your jiggle spam to have pretty much ANY effect compared to spamming on a regular keyboard, because the faster you spam the closer you are to the start of the acceleration curve, which is never going to be manipulated by a keyboard :D
Movement isn't instant in this game, you are still limited by the game so you aren't going to get faster. Also jiggling is dead in CS2, you will get killed behind the walls
@@samarthchohan106 That is true as CS is server authoritative game but I was thinking more along the lines of SnapTap providing only 15-30 ms less delay if you are good at counterstrafing so in case of jiggling it literally doesn't matter because you can't move that fast for it to be relevant
I've posted pretty much every single part of this entire video in comments on reddit (actually it's hilarious, literally every single comparison you made, down to the optimum human error ridiculousness and the actual sub10ms average human error) and I've been downvoted on every single comment I've made. I'm glad you made this video, I considered doing so myself but was too lazy 🥲 hopefully this gets through to the people. By the way I also did frame by frame analysis of my inputs and I'd say about 90% of my a/d switches were frame perfect just using wooting rapid trigger and an adjusted actuation. Obviously I've pressed a/d more times in my life than even most pros but it still made me realize maybe my arguing against its usefulness comes from a place of personal bias. I mean, I may feel people are exaggerating its usefulness because I have already insanely practiced keypresses. Also likely why pros statistically don't benefit or claim that they can't notice a difference. But some of the lows may be benefitting from it a lot, and it is technically automating inputs in a way that is outside the intention of the developers. In this sense I have come to think it should technically be considered cheat hardware, unlike other things you can pay for that give a clearly developer-intended advantage, such as high Hz monitors.
I was watching this without headphones on while taking care of my dog, & my mom said you sounded like Ernie (as in Bert & Ernie). I can't unhear this now.
Nothing which is possible trough console should be banned! Its the devs job to remove smth like this and if its ingame rn its a feature, just like the nullbind feature of the keyboards
Completely agreed. While there is *a bit* of an advantage, the amount is way way overblown. As you said, there are so many situations during a strafe/game situation where other factors are much more impactful on a successful engagement. Even in a purely isolated aimbotz environment, nailing down the other two aspects that can mess up a strafe is touchy for most players. Snap Tap will not make you an aim god.
Exactly that, plus for most pro players or experienced players, they’d have to completely change their whole playstyle to actually feel the benefit because muscle memory would take over.
The direction CS2 is moving in is super weird. First we have recoil aids with follow recoil and now we have movement aids. I don’t think SOCD or snap tap will get banned because it fits the general trend of CS2 wanting to be beginner friendly than CS:GO. And anyway snap tap won’t affect high elo because everyone has great counter-strafes and raw aim.
@@yegfuf it states on Leetify "A "good" counter-strafing shot is defined as a shot where your velocity is less than 34% of your max speed with that weapon" (It includes only shots with a rifle while standing. Divide all "good" counter-strafing shots by all counter-strafing shots).
@@yegfuf its shots on a target while your movement velocity is low enough to be considered accurate compared to all shots on a target. If you always stand still when you shoot an enemy your counter strafing stat will be 100%. If you always run and shoot with an smg then your counterstafing stat will be 0. The problem with this metric is that it doesn't actually measure counterstrafing accuracy. For example if you shoot too soon before counterstrafing and your first 1-3 bullets completely miss but bullets 4-10 hit then you could still have 100% counterstrafing when in reality you're screwing up one of the key fundamentals of counterstrafing that would get you anhialated by better players. You could also always shift walk and then release your movement key when you see an enemy and have really good counterstrafing but get demolished by better players because shift walk peaking is generally bad practice and will result in a a high (bad) time to damage. To understand the counterstrafing stat you need to take into account what weapon is used, what the first bullet accuracy is and what your time to damage is. If you're using an AK and have 90+% first bullet accuracy with
I recently borrowed my friend's drunkdeer g65, which has rapid trigger and it made a pretty big difference in counter strafing, but when I tried it with nullbinds (who's gonna stop me) it made almost no difference at all, and I'm only 5k elo, so I think it really depends a lot on the person. Though I don't understand why are nullbinds not allowed, if it's literally the same thing just inside the game
I mentioned overlap only being a portion of the complete counter strafing action and that Optimum overly blew the issue up in a subreddit and got down voted lol
I got the huntman v3...its awesome. Its not 'cheating' but if you practice strafing with snap-tap youll get it perfect everytike no issue and can go crazy with an ak or even awp
in the distant future pros would shift almost entirely to revolvers/scouts/autosnipers, have graphical mods to highlight players in neon green, have software that acts as esp for almost everything, and will be spinning... vigorously tl;dr majors become hvh and the crowd goes mild
I tried the null binds out and personally don't believe anyone over lvl 10 will see much of a difference. Always thought that my counter straffes were one of my biggest weaknesses and after seeing the discourse about it, fully expected to see a huge difference. It really didn't change much.
If this snap tap doesn't majorly give an advantage to most people and it is allowed on a platform / in a league, every conceivable way to achieve the same end effect *must* be allowed. I.e. it's either both snap tap and nullbinds are allowed, or neither snap tap or nullbinds are allowed. You have to rule this kind of help for the player the same no matter how it is achieved.
nice video. yeah seems more like a combination of things like socd, rapid fire, and adjusting switch travel time, which make a massive difference to maybe some older more generic mechanical keyboards.
bringing up the point with jump throw binds is acutally a counter argument because valve have specifically made changes in cs2 so you dont need a jump throw bind for consistency sake
you can be moving slightly and still have perfect accuracy, no? I recall one of the complaints re: CS2 was that if you are tagged by enemy fire it slows you down enough to have perfect accuracy and be able to return fire much more effectively?
so... my keyboard is a K3 Keychron, (from 2021) and every hour the game identifies as "input automation" and I don't know what to do, it's simply impossible to play...
Pro players already can make incredible counter strafe this is not important for them, but for low level players who do not know how to do, this is very advantageous for them
@@kasperbolding18 this feature remove main game mechanics which you gotta master of it if you want to be professional player. What's the point of being a pro when everyone is making perfect plays and shots.
Null movement scripts are banned because allowing scripts is a slippery slope, people will find loopholes and ways to abuse them in tournaments. However, SOCD Cleaning in firmware is much harder to modify/abuse without directly breaking the rules because you're strictly banned from loading any custom software onto devices. Clearly, tournament organisers have tested the features and decided that they are legal. That should be good enough.
@@arsilehtola667 Direct from ESL tournament rules: 2.9.3 Scripts All scripts are illegal except for buy, toggle (e.g. on/off, 0/1), grenade quick switching and jumpthrow scripts. Participants may be penalised for forbidden scripts in any config file, regardless of if it is in use, or even stored in the game folder in question. Examples of allowed scripts: Jumpthrow, e.g.: alias "+jump" "+jump" alias "+throw" "-attack; -attack2" alias "+fall" "-jump" bind "v" "+jump; +throw; +fall" Jumpthrow +run, +left, +right, e.g.: alias "+throw" "-attack; -attack2" alias "+runthrow" "+forward;+jump;" alias "-runthrow" "-jump;-forward" bind n "+runthrow;+throw" Grenade quick switching, e.g.: alias "+flash" "slot3" alias "-flash" "slot7" bind "c" "+flash" Null bind scripts are not included in this list, so they are also banned.
@@arsilehtola667 From the ESL Tournament rules (which you can easily look up yourself): 2.9.3 Scripts All scripts are illegal except for buy, toggle (e.g. on/off, 0/1), grenade quick switching and jumpthrow scripts. Participants may be penalised for forbidden scripts in any config file, regardless of if it is in use, or even stored in the game folder in question.
I heard msi or asus (can't remember) tried to implement monitors that track enemy positions inside MOBAs recently, shit is wild. It is a slippery slope for sure.
Genuinely don’t know, used to have a cheap set up 60fps and I felt like I would lose to others more consistently based on set up this kinda feels the same if I’m holding an angle and someone jumps it but kills me bc they see me first that’s an advantage I can’t physically break without money so this is like similar just makes someone good better
This is exactly what I’ve been downvoted on Reddit about, which is hilarious. Optimums video had 50ms overlap according to the code he’s shown, which is insane. I’ve also pointed out the same thing you’ve showed with „no input between direction switch“. Unfortunately there’s no data on what percentage of the playerbase actually overlaps input and how many have delay between inputs. Also consider where this feature even becomes useful. Good players, especially pros have their peek planned subconsciously, including the counter-strafe. It changes virtually nothing when peeking an angle intentionally. The only scenario in which it might give an advantage is when you’re surprised. This is then again less likely the better you are at the game. It makes a tiny difference for beginners and intermediates, but is close to irrelevant after a certain point. It really feels like the whole „this feature is cheating“ debate is a giant marketing gig by razer, with everyone just jumping on it. Given the tiny „advantage“ it gives I don’t see any issues allowing such features as well as null-binds in tournaments. All lower ranked people flaming about the feature just coping hard, because 10ms faster counter strafe won’t make a 10k player a pro overnight. Yeah you could argue it removes the need of learning tick-perfect counterstrafes, but honestly it will probably a lot harder to ban and control such features than just allowing it and accepting the skillfloor to be lifted a tiny percentage in one skill of many that make a good cs player
pc vs pc snap tap is okay but what about pc vs Console i think snap tap should be out of ESL (pc vs pc) for now till ervry body has it but pc vs console i think its same as controller can to acept a little bit faster than controller can i played a lot on controller so i see the movement and it remindes me of my ps4 time on contronller but on crack with the snap tap
The advantage isn't the main issue. While yes, eliminating human error is the most talked about (and deservingly so) issue, it's all about the precedent it sets. It is a macro. Regardless of how you look at it, the way it works mimics a macro (multiple actions with 1 input) so if we allow macros to be used we will eventually start allowing more and more because they're "similar to another allowed thing". Like imagine if mice that came with autoclickers were allowed in games where clicking speed is important. It's the same idea.
idk i tried null binds i didn't notice anything different if anything it felt kinda worse. maybe cuz I've played for so many years I'm just used to the natural movement? I'm not too sure.
I thought the consensus was that null binds are (and have been) legal, except in tournament play? I'm 50/50 on the morality of it, but in any case the average player is much more likely to try those binds than to buy a new keyboard. It would be really good for Valve to make a statement addressing all of this, as it's definitely a hot topic at the moment.
My problem with snap tap/SOCD is not for pros, but for newer players. The fact that someone who has not played a single minute of any CS game can pick it up and within an hour get essentially perfect counter-strafes is ridiculous to me. Also Razer opened Pandora's box for these type of things that give you a clear advantage at a hardware level, it's just gonna enable every big company to go even more extreme with this, because they don't care about competitive integrity and if they can make more money by selling hardware that gives an inherent advantage, they will.
I tried an alias which looks like : "alias "+autostop_forward" "+forward; rightleft 0 1 0; !forwardback 0 1 0" alias "-autostop_forward" "-forward; !forwardback 0.00000000000001 0 0" ...." You stop as fast as you release key. The impact on the aim, for a low/average player like me, is HUGE. Bullets actually go where you aim (amazing !) Do you think it's allowed on faceit MM ?
For me as a 2.8k faceit player, i started using them 2-3 days ago and i actually noticed 0 difference idk if its me or its my brain but i dont feel any better with them .
I don’t use null binds and I’m not using the keyboard. I just love playing the game and I don’t want a handicap. I want to grind to be excellent and enjoy the journey. Fuck a handicap
I agree since counterstrafing is like an aspect of movement but not all of it, and there's still game sense, aiming, recoil, utility, economy, gameplan strats, comms, that you have to master in game
@@fica1137 rapid trigger is keyboard hardware feature? If I have hot swappable keyboard switches, can I change the switches to achieve similar results other than null binds in console?
@@sk1F-1991 only thing null binds and SnapTap do is cancel out one key when you press the other. They are the same. I haven't really felt an improvement in my counter strafing on a regular mechanical keyboard with null binds, so analog keyboards + rapid trigger is the difference maker I assume. If you don't have analog keyboard with hall effect magnetic switches then you can't use rapid trigger.
I fully agree with the conclusions but I disagree a bit with the jump throw logic. Consistency and convenience are the same for both movement and grenades. I feel like a player should not have to setup custom binds to play the game properly. Now that is probably more about valve needing to figure out a way to make jump throws more consistent or forgiving but even so, binds to achieve consistency should not be required.
I happened to need a new keyboard and got the razer a day before this update because rapid trigger and nice student discount( 15%! look into it if you can save!) I agree, I thought that rapid trigger was HUGE was counter strafing as overlapping is almost impossible with actuation being .5mm( can make it lower) and deactivation being .01 mm. I am not great, like mg2-mger floater, but I did not notice m,uch difference with snap tap on or off. maybe if your braaaand new it will help but i still dont notice much
What about the other aspect of this? The jiggling using rapid tapping on one key and holding the other? It becomes way easier and faster if one key input is ignored in this case
i believe your should do average test with not so good players to see how good actually is(if it is) , most pros already master the counter strafing so hopefully alot of not so good players get this keyboard for some comparison
I think these system aren't helping pros that much but casuals up to maybe semi pro level. My biggest issue I've with these systems isn't even that tho. My issue maybe comes because I'm 35 and play CS since 25 years and know what matters: This game is that interesting and longterm fun because you can learn something new every day and can get so much better at so many different things. Counter strafing is just one tiny thing out of thousands of things of this game and yet you can spend thousands of hours training it and get better the longer you learn it. Whenever systems come up that remove training a specific thing you remove something a player can work on which will eventually result in him beeing less interested in the game because the skillcap isn't as high anymore.
Hah, i got the huntsman on monday, been dabbling with it for the past couple of days and when asked about snap tap by friends I had the exact same feedback. Fast trigger is, in fact, the bigger deal. You can see it best with the deagle since its the most punishing weapon in the game. To put it in short I feel like snap tap + rapid trigger would probably give you about 5% - 10% more in terms of output, meaning that you might be able to dodge an extra bullet here and there, and land a bullet you’d normally miss here and there. However i feel like the subject has been over exaggerated due to the way optimum presented in his clip, not to mention the title. In reality, if your crosshair placement is shit, your muscle memory untrained and your decision making in terms of choosing when to spray/tap/burst this keyboard won’t help you accomplish jack shit, ain’t even gonna factor in game sense or knowing how to peek an angle in specific situations. Last but not least i urge the people who are crying over it to actually try and full slide without letting go of your key while also pressing the other movement key, you will positively feel retarded, there is no way that will ever be the norm, ever.
Pro just haven't adjusted to it. Doesn't prove that snap tap doesn't help. My counter strafe on leetify went up from 83% percent to 90% in multiple games, I rarely hit 90% before socd
At this point the only solution is building snap tap into the game itself to keep it from becoming pay to win. The hardware is virtually undetectable without manual review of gameplay and I don't think steam could really afford that.
Tbh i don't think Snap Tap is that bad, it's just that people learned how to counter-strafe without it and with it you do it a little differently, i think in due time people will learn how to use it
question, is rapid trigger that important for cs2? iam shook when looking at those keyboard prices with rapid trigger costing 200$+ i rather save money to upgrade pc first
Rapid trigger is great but if you need frame take the frames over rapid trigger for sure. Wait for Chinese knockoffs if you can't (understandably) afford the wooting, they are most probably coming to market at some point
Among pros? The differences wont be super noticeable (though it obviously does provide an advantage). Aim, team concession, map knowledge will show the best results. Among pubs? Yeah i can see it being a pretty big deal. A casual player with poor movement can seem like an average or even good player with mechanical assistance. I'd like to see an experiment where casuals play with and without the keyboard difference. With one group knowing they are using SOCD and the other group unaware of the changes, and then seeing the results and how much they felt it improved or if it was a placebo.
How can faceit even determine you're using this feature if they do "change their minds" and not that you're simply very good at releasing keys at the same time as pressing the other one?
speaking FACTS! releasing your strafe key and also tapping the opposite key is BEST! sure there might be a small case it might help! but this won't help! rapid trigger helps the most! but it's not as GROUND Breaking or changing as going from 60, 144, and 240hz and having better PC hardware! and faster internet and of course Ping Advantage
I don't think SOCD is bad, this is something that has been in keypads for a very long time now. It wouldn't have been very hard to use it in CS in the first place It's not going to give a crazy advantage for those who already know how to counterstrafe. For other games like Overwatch where there is no counterstrafing for accuracy it can be a decent advantage, but even then, it's not going to be huge.
To be honest I tried this mechanic with an AutoHotKey script and it really doesn't seem that great for games like CS2. Maybe Overwatch 2, I'd try it in Apex Legends but I'm scared of getting banned so I didn't.
yep, only works with analog switches. the delay of regular mechanical switches is to long to notice anything.by the time you have pressed d to counter strafe you would need to instantly let go of both a and d.
The reason its not cheating, is because it removes the latency created by the keyboard during counter strafes. Instead of having to WAIT for the key switch to deactivate, its "instant". Its removing the keyboard latency when changing keys, close to real time movement. Timing and muscle memory is simply humans adapting to the weakness of key switches. Now with analogue and laser key switches, we can measure exactly when a person moves their fingers. Its not an advantage, its just that NOT using snap tap is a disadvantage. Its like deliberately using a 60hz monitor which gives you a disadvantage in reaction time.
That's false, that's not removing latency, that's ignoring an input. With SOCD/SnapTap you can hold A then hold D but it will only register that you are holding D despite the fact that you are still holding A. You can literally download a software that does this on any keyboard or you can use nullbinds that do the same thing. This is not a latency issue nor is it a hardware issue.
I love that you brought in other players who are very good at the game and also someone who isn't very good to compare and contrast. Great video Mr.Voo!
Being ok with rapid trigger but not null binds smacks of "i only want me and other gamers who have hundreds of dollars to sp3nd on a keyboard to have an advantage"...
Comparision in video is wrong - you are focused to counter-strafe perfectly, but it is not possible all the time and snap tap "fix it". Snap Tap is just rises the skill floor. After half year break I have perfect counter-strafing with this feature, that was not the case in preview come back after breaks.
Nahh, you know whats cheating? An optical or magnetic switch keyboard over a mechanical. Being able to set acuation points offers a massive advabtage in reaction time. Running null scripts on a mechnical feels like molasses regardless. If we want fairness, theyd just standardize all keyboards to have a set actuation point and remove all scripted binds. I saw a commeng that said snap tap sets a bad precedent and i fully agree. If anything, null binds should be banned and everyine should own a wooting. Going from a mech keyboard to a Wooting felt pike cheating, truly.
leetify.com/voo
apparently optimum actually specified the human error was set at 50ms, my bad. regardless the point was to determine what the human error actually is
I understand both perspectives.
On one hand its like jump binds where its a script yes but we all use it.
On the other its been banned for a long time and allowing it now just feels wrong.
Also THE HUMAN ERROR IS SPECIFIED AT 50MS WATCH THE DAMN VIDEO AGAIN.
Lol you even raised your voice for that part...awkward
@@hdhejehwkaje6542 lmao i'm not annoyed at the video but rather the multiple people whose counter-argument is "what do you mean it gives you only 10-20ms? optimum's video says 60-70ms idiot"
if you read the youtube comment i show when mentioning beginners overrating snap tap, i read that just before recording that bit lmao
@@vooCSGO I believe that they allow to use to through a keyboard because they cannot detect it and maybe it's a different case for the console commands. And if they cannot detect it it should be allowed to anyone one in my opinion cause you don't want to give an untrackable advantage to players when it's not that a big of a deal
Razer as a whole should be banned from competitive. All their hardware have integrated cheats.
Question: if it's not a big deal... Why are null binds banned? There is no logical reason why that should be banned if this is allowed or if this is not a big deal.
Firstly, it's only in ESEA league that you're talking about. In normal CS2 premier, competitive and Faceit these binds are allowed and you cannot get VAC banned.
Secondly, I think it's not necessarily the null binds themselves, it just the ESEA rules say you can't have any complex binds beside basic jump throw and something that toggles on/off or x/y
i'm more of the stance of it's fairly reasonable if both or neither are legal, though i'd lean towards neither being legal. advantage doesn't need to be large to be an advantage.
what is null bind bro??
@@vooCSGOwhile I understand that “advantage mindset” if they say this is illegal then what’s stopping ppl from arguing that being able to buy better pc parts then me is legal? Why can you have 400 fps but I can only have say 100 . Or your monitor is 360 hz which is better than my say 60 hz
Or even mouse 4K polling but mine can only do 1k?
Everyone can buy this keyboard, it’s up to them to either buy it or use weaker product.
@@SanityJLthis is actually a good argument, some people with 240hz monitor and crazy fast computer will have an advantage over you, so I feel like these keyboards shouldn't be illegal
only in counter-strike would leagues BAN the console command accessible within the game to everybody but NOT the pay2win keyboards that do the exact same thing
Im guessing those keyboard companies paid those leagues
If you can do it in the console it should be patched out of the game. In game settings shouldn’t be considered cheating.
@@daotpekeexactly, razer products are advertised as "ESL Gaming Officially Licensed peripherals". Wooting simply enabled the feature because they were forced to by razer
This comment needs WAY more eyes on it. People should be heavily scrutinizing this fact.
optimum specified the amount of human error and clarified that it would give a bigger advantage the more error there was, so it makes sense that it would be way more effective for beginners than pros. this would allow beginners to skip learning this skill for the most part and spend more time learning and mastering other aspects of the game which is a huge advantage.
Beginners would still have terrible counterstrafing with this even with optimum's assumption of frankly ridiculuous amount of overlap. You still have to press the keys and have a good timing. And mostly importantly, NOT SHOOTING WHILE MOVING
yeah the only problem is his floor of 50ms seems to be closer to the ceiling of overlap than the floor. I should've really delved into this more but it does seem like it's way less skill level dependent than you'd think in terms of the amount of overlap. it seems like some people are just good at it and some people aren't, kinda like the concerthotels got rhythm thing if you've tried it. practice obviously helps a bit but some people got it and some people dont
@vooCSGO This is cope, if the null bind script didn't give any advantage it wouldn't have been banned for all those years. Even if it was irrelevant for players who already mastered counter strafing (it's probably not), it's still a massive advantage for new players learning the game.
@@tegmiles it's not a massive advantage because A D overlap is arguably the least important aspect of counter strafing. This feature is probably most effective if you are at intermediate level e.g. know how to counterstrafe and developed a habit for it but you still haven't perfected the timings. But imo rapid trigger and analog/hall switches >>>>> null binds
@@tegmiles did i not address almost all of this in the video? or was it just not a complete enough argument in your eyes
I actually highly rated snap tap and null binds a few weeks ago but after using them for a while I switched off them because im player who holds the opposite key too long when i counter strafe which snap tap does really help with and because of that my movement felt off in more situations than snap tap actually helped.
imo rapid trigger was a much bigger advantage than snap tap....
I think it's being blown out of proportion. People are waaaay overstating how hard it is to counter strafe in all sorts of forums, reddit etc. People act like to play competitive cs, it will take you hundreds of hours to learn counter strafing. the reality is that any decent gamer out there can learn the simple concept of tapping the opposite direction to slow down quicker within hours.
people play all sorts of crazy games with complex combos and frame perfect inputs, but somehow holding a and then tapping d is this ultra hard thing that you wont know how to do unless you;ve played for 1000 hours. people in silver are counter strafing just fine.
consider this: in valorant, the difference between counter strafing and not counter strafing is about ~9-14ms, yet it is widely accepted that counter strafing is not needed in that game. many pros do not counter strafe and many radiants do not counter strafe in valorant. So despite a 14ms advantage, some of the games top players dont do it.... and here we see snap tap helping pro's counter strafing by less than 10ms. it's just not a big advantage plain and simple.
now for modes like kz and bhop, yea sure this is a waaay bigger advantage than someone without it, but in standard cs it just really isn't that big of a deal. You are going to get a few ms faster counter strafes, but you're still gonna suck at the game (not you voo, the generic "you")
For me it's not about 'snap tap' being OP or anything like that, it more of the precedent it sets and because of that it needs to be banned. Snap tap is not a hardware feature, it's just software(null binds) and instead of being part of your config, it's just baked into the keyboards firmware. A software feature that targets a very specific mechanic of the game, counter strafing. And for me that's just too much, even if the advantage is tiny.
I really don't think the people going "well what's next, a mouse that controls recoil for you?" are too far off. "Philosophically" it's not much different than snap tap, especially now with the follow recoil option for your crosshair. I could easily see a script that uses that and 'forces' your aim to center on the crosshair, get built into mice to handle recoil.
The auto-recoil control on a mouse comparison is flawed because that would be like the keyboard automatically counter strafing for you when you release the key.
@@Elite_Ace I'm not saying it's a 1:1 thing, but that's why allowing the snap tap is such a slippery slope. And it is doing half of the counter strafe for you, it's releasing the original key you were using for you.
snaptap is a hardware feature. Unlike normal keyboard that just detect if the key is pressed down or not, these keyboards constantly poll the key position and the hardware inside then converts those position into key presses. Normal keyboards have no idea how far down the key is pressed and no amount of software will change that. When you open the keyboard software on your computer and make changes it then uploads those changes to the keyboard.
its next to impossible to detect without manual review of the gameplay. I can almost guarantee a software update at some point that will incorporate snap-tap into the game itself. It's probably the only way to keep online and in person tournaments both fair and consistent.
@@ameliekk no, that is just an analog keyboard switch, wooting started that over five years ago now. Snap tap is just null binds built into the keyboards firmware. The nature of analog switches certainly enhance the potential advantage of null binds but what snap tap is doing can be done on a normal keyboard through null binds in your autoexec
I wish you spoke about the rapid strafing back and forth as well. I'd like to know how much that impacts gameplay
Me too
ive been using null binds in cs for 3-4 years because i was into kz and had around 1-2 overlap usually on strafes/ljs, etc. ive played on faceit with it many times without knowing it was supposedly banned. only reason i still use them is because i never could be arsed to exec another config to remove the null binds, and it is what ive been playing with in kz for a long time, so no reason to change
Well now if you get questioned just say it's SOCD
completely agree with this vid, i think to fully abuse snap tap you have to change the way you move in any game to realise the benefits which is going to be super unnatural for experienced players. However a game like overwatch where is movement is much quicker and arcadey could be much easier to adapt to with snap tap since a lot of the movement is just spam A and D
This, this is why I feel like people are over exaggerating the issue of snap tap / socd. In a game like CS, for experienced players this will not do much unless they completely change their play style. I feel it might benefit certain types of players. If scream still played CS I feel he would benefit a lot from this type of movement because of how much he relies on aggressive counter strafes and his one taps
@vooCSGO
should they just add the null bind into the game, not as a custom script but a setting so everyone gets it?
I think so too
Yesterday I decided to disable all the “assisting” features from my wooting keyboard such as Rapid trigger and SOCD. I even made my actuation 1.5 to match my old keyboard. After making the changes, I felt as if my strafing got better and it would actually do what I would tell it to do. Felt better just disabling everything after months of owning the keyboard!
Skill issue
Exactly what I think. It doesn'T matter how big of an advantage this truly gives you because it raises an essential question.
Where do you draw the line when something suddenly isn't considered cheating anymore because your hardware can do it by default?
A nullbind is essentially the same thing but that is considered cheating. Why? If this keyboard isn't cheating then neither is a nullbind and vice versa.
It's actually delusional that some people compared Snap Tap to good pc / good internet / 540hz monitors. All of those just help reducing latency instead of ALTERING THE INPUT for you.
540hz monitor has nothing to do with latency..it gives you more fps which is 100 percent an advantage
I know this is offtopic, but do I need 540fps ++ to use a 540hz monitor at full potential?
@@orcristghost3204 No it lets you see it. A better graphics card gives you more fps.
@@bobemihai Yep
the people comparing specs advantage can’t come up with better ideas considering none of those helps you MECHANICALLY play the game
Ok, after playing with SOCD for about a week now, I feel like in CS2 it didn’t change that much for me. This is because I already had pretty good counter strafing. In Valorant however, where my movement was ass beforehand, it actually improved my movement so much my skill level became at least a full rank higher…
valorant doesn't benefit from counter strafing tho, what did it improve in your movement?
Valorant the difference between holding 2 keys and letting go is 0. BUT having a hair trigger instead of a 4mm of travel that might count for a lot
@@gimmix9478it does tho, even optimum showed it in his video. you stop around half a players model faster when you counterstrafe as opposed to when you let go. its not a lot, but considering that null binds/socd makes you stop 1-2 frames faster it is still an advantage
Another solution: Valve implements last input wins in the game itself. Since it's not a big deal, that's not a bad decision, and will render any scripts or keyboard software irrelevant if it does the same thing, and also wouldn't need to moderate people using scripts or keyboard software for SOCD either.
As you pointed out though, leetify strafe accuracy is not equal to how quickly you counterstrafe. I think it's a metric you can look at, but I think a new measurement needs to be added of 'counterstrafe deadtime' or something, which is the amount of time you waste, either in overlapped keys, or gap in presses when counterstrafing. My counterstrafe accuracy is one of the highest of my friends (20k+ / 1800 - 2500 elo+), but that doesn't mean what some people think it does.
What is your counter-strafe accuracy percentage on Leetify? I'm 14k and 95% current period and 93% previous. I don't know how they get these numbers. It even says my aim and utility usage is better then lvl 10 average....
@@michallidesThat's because you shift all the time you baiter
@@michallideswhat is your time to damage? You could have almost 100% accuracy in leetify's counterstrafing metric if you take a long time to start shooting. 90% and above values are already pretty rare even among pros because they know to win engagements they have to be extremely quick doing damage in like 450-500ms whereas you might be taking 650-700 for example, it makes a big difference.
as soon as I realized what SOCD actually was, i did not understand why it was such a big deal. you're doing the lords work
i got the razer keyboard and didnt notice much different with snaptap and for about 4 days now that i can guess, iv actually been playing with it off without realizing cuz i checked when watching this and it was off . my counter strafe % on leetify never really changed average is still 91-93% like it been for a while. but like youve said ppl who are worse to begin with will see more improvement so i think if anything, worse players are going to be harder to punish for bad strafes cuz the keyboard does part of it for them
if your read this thank for reading my yap sesh
I think you're right Voo. The only major difference it would make is to new players and the minor difference to pros it makes is huge since it is at that level of competition. However, for the rest of us (and pros), after playing CS for 10+ years, we've all been practicing each individual aspect of this game to attempt to perfect it. We have been practicing and playing at the best we can with our counter strafing skill as it is. I don't know if this is really beneficial. To take out human error would be to remove what we expect from our own strafes.
Essentially what I'm trying to say is, we've been strafing with human error and trying to perfect it so by now we know what our strafes are like and to have this keyboard do it for you seems like it could actually be a hindrance. Unless of course we all picked one up and started perfecting the snap strafe. But at that point, why not make a mouse that aims for you. Or better yet, lets just get bots with all perfect inputs to vs each other and watch that for pro league.
i also agree with voo here, but if they're allowing this, then they should be fair to everyone and allow null bind scripts
I've been saying this since I heard about it, it just isn't that big of a deal that people think, that overwatch example was probably the craziest usage of the feature
People are focusing on the wrong aspect of the game that nullbind/sodc is giving an advantage to. As you get better at this games, counter strafing becomes muscle memory and getting “quicker” at doing it doesn’t necessarily give you as much of an advantage as your overall aim and positioning. What this does give a HUGE advantage on is jiggle movement. Because it is exponentially faster to spam a single key on and off than it is to alternate between toggling on and off two separate keys.
This is now approaching inhuman ability that relies on an external source to improve. Equivalent to the Hitbox for the fgc.
And even then it's not very critical with CS movement physics. However in Overwatch, where there's no inertia and only linear movement it's pretty broken
Why do people always ignore the physics of CS? Acceleration curve doesn't allow your jiggle spam to have pretty much ANY effect compared to spamming on a regular keyboard, because the faster you spam the closer you are to the start of the acceleration curve, which is never going to be manipulated by a keyboard :D
Movement isn't instant in this game, you are still limited by the game so you aren't going to get faster. Also jiggling is dead in CS2, you will get killed behind the walls
@@fica1137that means you can't move if the server does not give permission?
@@samarthchohan106 That is true as CS is server authoritative game but I was thinking more along the lines of SnapTap providing only 15-30 ms less delay if you are good at counterstrafing so in case of jiggling it literally doesn't matter because you can't move that fast for it to be relevant
As a piano player i was very confused that apparently its hard for people to have non overlapping inputs
I've posted pretty much every single part of this entire video in comments on reddit (actually it's hilarious, literally every single comparison you made, down to the optimum human error ridiculousness and the actual sub10ms average human error) and I've been downvoted on every single comment I've made. I'm glad you made this video, I considered doing so myself but was too lazy 🥲 hopefully this gets through to the people. By the way I also did frame by frame analysis of my inputs and I'd say about 90% of my a/d switches were frame perfect just using wooting rapid trigger and an adjusted actuation. Obviously I've pressed a/d more times in my life than even most pros but it still made me realize maybe my arguing against its usefulness comes from a place of personal bias. I mean, I may feel people are exaggerating its usefulness because I have already insanely practiced keypresses. Also likely why pros statistically don't benefit or claim that they can't notice a difference. But some of the lows may be benefitting from it a lot, and it is technically automating inputs in a way that is outside the intention of the developers. In this sense I have come to think it should technically be considered cheat hardware, unlike other things you can pay for that give a clearly developer-intended advantage, such as high Hz monitors.
Redditors stay clueless as always
I was watching this without headphones on while taking care of my dog, & my mom said you sounded like Ernie (as in Bert & Ernie). I can't unhear this now.
Nothing which is possible trough console should be banned! Its the devs job to remove smth like this and if its ingame rn its a feature, just like the nullbind feature of the keyboards
been using the same 'snap tap' tech with AHK and if you dont have analog switches its basically usesless.
I mean they literally removed it yesterday sooo
Completely agreed. While there is *a bit* of an advantage, the amount is way way overblown. As you said, there are so many situations during a strafe/game situation where other factors are much more impactful on a successful engagement. Even in a purely isolated aimbotz environment, nailing down the other two aspects that can mess up a strafe is touchy for most players. Snap Tap will not make you an aim god.
Exactly that, plus for most pro players or experienced players, they’d have to completely change their whole playstyle to actually feel the benefit because muscle memory would take over.
The direction CS2 is moving in is super weird. First we have recoil aids with follow recoil and now we have movement aids. I don’t think SOCD or snap tap will get banned because it fits the general trend of CS2 wanting to be beginner friendly than CS:GO. And anyway snap tap won’t affect high elo because everyone has great counter-strafes and raw aim.
I have 84% counter-strafe % on Leetify and null binds are a game changer. BUT it still doesn't make me hit proper counter-strafes on an off/bad day.
Hi, what does the counter-strafe% actually mean? Thanks
@@yegfuf it states on Leetify
"A "good" counter-strafing shot is defined as a shot where your velocity is less than 34% of your max speed with that weapon"
(It includes only shots with a rifle while standing. Divide all "good" counter-strafing shots by all counter-strafing shots).
@@yegfuf its shots on a target while your movement velocity is low enough to be considered accurate compared to all shots on a target. If you always stand still when you shoot an enemy your counter strafing stat will be 100%. If you always run and shoot with an smg then your counterstafing stat will be 0. The problem with this metric is that it doesn't actually measure counterstrafing accuracy. For example if you shoot too soon before counterstrafing and your first 1-3 bullets completely miss but bullets 4-10 hit then you could still have 100% counterstrafing when in reality you're screwing up one of the key fundamentals of counterstrafing that would get you anhialated by better players. You could also always shift walk and then release your movement key when you see an enemy and have really good counterstrafing but get demolished by better players because shift walk peaking is generally bad practice and will result in a a high (bad) time to damage. To understand the counterstrafing stat you need to take into account what weapon is used, what the first bullet accuracy is and what your time to damage is. If you're using an AK and have 90+% first bullet accuracy with
I recently borrowed my friend's drunkdeer g65, which has rapid trigger and it made a pretty big difference in counter strafing, but when I tried it with nullbinds (who's gonna stop me) it made almost no difference at all, and I'm only 5k elo, so I think it really depends a lot on the person. Though I don't understand why are nullbinds not allowed, if it's literally the same thing just inside the game
Thanks for actually testing the difference WITH an explanation!
I mentioned overlap only being a portion of the complete counter strafing action and that Optimum overly blew the issue up in a subreddit and got down voted lol
I got the huntman v3...its awesome. Its not 'cheating' but if you practice strafing with snap-tap youll get it perfect everytike no issue and can go crazy with an ak or even awp
in the distant future pros would shift almost entirely to revolvers/scouts/autosnipers, have graphical mods to highlight players in neon green, have software that acts as esp for almost everything, and will be spinning... vigorously
tl;dr majors become hvh and the crowd goes mild
I tried the null binds out and personally don't believe anyone over lvl 10 will see much of a difference. Always thought that my counter straffes were one of my biggest weaknesses and after seeing the discourse about it, fully expected to see a huge difference. It really didn't change much.
If this snap tap doesn't majorly give an advantage to most people and it is allowed on a platform / in a league, every conceivable way to achieve the same end effect *must* be allowed. I.e. it's either both snap tap and nullbinds are allowed, or neither snap tap or nullbinds are allowed. You have to rule this kind of help for the player the same no matter how it is achieved.
nice video. yeah seems more like a combination of things like socd, rapid fire, and adjusting switch travel time, which make a massive difference to maybe some older more generic mechanical keyboards.
bringing up the point with jump throw binds is acutally a counter argument because valve have specifically made changes in cs2 so you dont need a jump throw bind for consistency sake
its better to bind walk and crouch so u dont have the inaccuracy when u start crouching but also to not make a step if u release walk too soon
you can be moving slightly and still have perfect accuracy, no? I recall one of the complaints re: CS2 was that if you are tagged by enemy fire it slows you down enough to have perfect accuracy and be able to return fire much more effectively?
so... my keyboard is a K3 Keychron, (from 2021) and every hour the game identifies as "input automation" and I don't know what to do, it's simply impossible to play...
Pro players already can make incredible counter strafe this is not important for them, but for low level players who do not know how to do, this is very advantageous for them
So reducing the learning curve. Sounds like good advancement in equipment.
@@kasperbolding18 this feature remove main game mechanics which you gotta master of it if you want to be professional player. What's the point of being a pro when everyone is making perfect plays and shots.
Null movement scripts are banned because allowing scripts is a slippery slope, people will find loopholes and ways to abuse them in tournaments. However, SOCD Cleaning in firmware is much harder to modify/abuse without directly breaking the rules because you're strictly banned from loading any custom software onto devices.
Clearly, tournament organisers have tested the features and decided that they are legal. That should be good enough.
Nulls are not banned though😂😂
@@arsilehtola667 Null movement binds/scripts are banned in tournaments.
@@laeioun Nah
@@arsilehtola667 Direct from ESL tournament rules:
2.9.3 Scripts
All scripts are illegal except for buy, toggle (e.g. on/off, 0/1), grenade quick switching and jumpthrow scripts. Participants may be penalised for forbidden scripts in any config file, regardless of if it is in use, or even stored in the game folder in question. Examples of allowed scripts:
Jumpthrow, e.g.:
alias "+jump" "+jump"
alias "+throw" "-attack; -attack2"
alias "+fall" "-jump"
bind "v" "+jump; +throw; +fall"
Jumpthrow +run, +left, +right, e.g.:
alias "+throw" "-attack; -attack2"
alias "+runthrow" "+forward;+jump;"
alias "-runthrow" "-jump;-forward"
bind n "+runthrow;+throw"
Grenade quick switching, e.g.:
alias "+flash" "slot3"
alias "-flash" "slot7"
bind "c" "+flash"
Null bind scripts are not included in this list, so they are also banned.
@@arsilehtola667 From the ESL Tournament rules (which you can easily look up yourself):
2.9.3 Scripts
All scripts are illegal except for buy, toggle (e.g. on/off, 0/1), grenade quick switching and jumpthrow scripts. Participants may be penalised for forbidden scripts in any config file, regardless of if it is in use, or even stored in the game folder in question.
So when they embed auto-aim or counter spray functionality in mouse this would also be allowed since this is what your mouse doing....
I heard msi or asus (can't remember) tried to implement monitors that track enemy positions inside MOBAs recently, shit is wild.
It is a slippery slope for sure.
Genuinely don’t know, used to have a cheap set up 60fps and I felt like I would lose to others more consistently based on set up this kinda feels the same if I’m holding an angle and someone jumps it but kills me bc they see me first that’s an advantage I can’t physically break without money so this is like similar just makes someone good better
this keyboard actually helps me out so much in pubg, and strafe shooting. and Starcraft2
Now make one of those infinite scroll wheels for mice work so you don't have to time bunnyhops either, all the casuals in the chat will love it.
This is exactly what I’ve been downvoted on Reddit about, which is hilarious.
Optimums video had 50ms overlap according to the code he’s shown, which is insane.
I’ve also pointed out the same thing you’ve showed with „no input between direction switch“. Unfortunately there’s no data on what percentage of the playerbase actually overlaps input and how many have delay between inputs.
Also consider where this feature even becomes useful. Good players, especially pros have their peek planned subconsciously, including the counter-strafe. It changes virtually nothing when peeking an angle intentionally.
The only scenario in which it might give an advantage is when you’re surprised. This is then again less likely the better you are at the game.
It makes a tiny difference for beginners and intermediates, but is close to irrelevant after a certain point.
It really feels like the whole „this feature is cheating“ debate is a giant marketing gig by razer, with everyone just jumping on it.
Given the tiny „advantage“ it gives I don’t see any issues allowing such features as well as null-binds in tournaments.
All lower ranked people flaming about the feature just coping hard, because 10ms faster counter strafe won’t make a 10k player a pro overnight. Yeah you could argue it removes the need of learning tick-perfect counterstrafes, but honestly it will probably a lot harder to ban and control such features than just allowing it and accepting the skillfloor to be lifted a tiny percentage in one skill of many that make a good cs player
pc vs pc snap tap is okay but what about pc vs Console i think snap tap should be out of ESL (pc vs pc) for now till ervry body has it but pc vs console i think its same as controller can to acept a little bit faster than controller can i played a lot on controller so i see the movement and it remindes me of my ps4 time on contronller but on crack with the snap tap
The advantage isn't the main issue. While yes, eliminating human error is the most talked about (and deservingly so) issue, it's all about the precedent it sets. It is a macro. Regardless of how you look at it, the way it works mimics a macro (multiple actions with 1 input) so if we allow macros to be used we will eventually start allowing more and more because they're "similar to another allowed thing".
Like imagine if mice that came with autoclickers were allowed in games where clicking speed is important. It's the same idea.
Still waiting for a keyboard that will spam spacebar after my input to make bunnyhopping easier
You mean a scroll wheel ?
idk i tried null binds i didn't notice anything different if anything it felt kinda worse. maybe cuz I've played for so many years I'm just used to the natural movement? I'm not too sure.
Pretty sure null binds are legal in faceit and premier just can’t use them in pro play
valve banned snap tap. Womp wompp
age like milk
The bad kind of aged milk. Not cheese
Great Video, I am playing with a Corsair K55 and i dont want to risk using scripts and getting VACed as i am only a casual player
I thought the consensus was that null binds are (and have been) legal, except in tournament play? I'm 50/50 on the morality of it, but in any case the average player is much more likely to try those binds than to buy a new keyboard. It would be really good for Valve to make a statement addressing all of this, as it's definitely a hot topic at the moment.
currently using it and its actually really good. not a day and night diffrence but makes it more consistent in terms of human error
I enabled it and tried it then immediately turned it off because my muscle memory just wouldn't let me use it.
My problem with snap tap/SOCD is not for pros, but for newer players. The fact that someone who has not played a single minute of any CS game can pick it up and within an hour get essentially perfect counter-strafes is ridiculous to me.
Also Razer opened Pandora's box for these type of things that give you a clear advantage at a hardware level, it's just gonna enable every big company to go even more extreme with this, because they don't care about competitive integrity and if they can make more money by selling hardware that gives an inherent advantage, they will.
"within an hour get essentially perfect counter-strafes is ridiculous to me"
Are you serious? That's the dumbest thing I read
@@fica1137 how so?
@@cr34t_because it's bs, you can't have perfect counterstrafing within an hour
I tried an alias which looks like :
"alias "+autostop_forward" "+forward; rightleft 0 1 0; !forwardback 0 1 0"
alias "-autostop_forward" "-forward; !forwardback 0.00000000000001 0 0"
...."
You stop as fast as you release key. The impact on the aim, for a low/average player like me, is HUGE. Bullets actually go where you aim (amazing !)
Do you think it's allowed on faceit MM ?
I've complained about the implementation of Leetify's "counter strafe" stat before. Completely useless.
For me as a 2.8k faceit player, i started using them 2-3 days ago and i actually noticed 0 difference idk if its me or its my brain but i dont feel any better with them .
I don’t use null binds and I’m not using the keyboard. I just love playing the game and I don’t want a handicap. I want to grind to be excellent and enjoy the journey.
Fuck a handicap
I agree since counterstrafing is like an aspect of movement but not all of it, and there's still game sense, aiming, recoil, utility, economy, gameplan strats, comms, that you have to master in game
I would love to hear more about these null binds you mentioned, i heard mixed things, do they actually have any impact?
They are just SnapTap feature but built into the game. Buy a keyboard with rapid trigger and you will basically have the same thing
@@fica1137 rapid trigger is keyboard hardware feature? If I have hot swappable keyboard switches, can I change the switches to achieve similar results other than null binds in console?
@@sk1F-1991 only thing null binds and SnapTap do is cancel out one key when you press the other. They are the same. I haven't really felt an improvement in my counter strafing on a regular mechanical keyboard with null binds, so analog keyboards + rapid trigger is the difference maker I assume.
If you don't have analog keyboard with hall effect magnetic switches then you can't use rapid trigger.
@@sk1F-1991rapid trigger is a feature of magnetic (hall effect) switches on analog keyboards. Ug
Honestly i think over banning features strangles innovation... Why not allow those scripts? Even add binds to the settings to keep them accessible?
Hey bro whats the name of that aim range where you practicing at this video?
I fully agree with the conclusions but I disagree a bit with the jump throw logic. Consistency and convenience are the same for both movement and grenades. I feel like a player should not have to setup custom binds to play the game properly. Now that is probably more about valve needing to figure out a way to make jump throws more consistent or forgiving but even so, binds to achieve consistency should not be required.
I happened to need a new keyboard and got the razer a day before this update because rapid trigger and nice student discount( 15%! look into it if you can save!) I agree, I thought that rapid trigger was HUGE was counter strafing as overlapping is almost impossible with actuation being .5mm( can make it lower) and deactivation being .01 mm. I am not great, like mg2-mger floater, but I did not notice m,uch difference with snap tap on or off. maybe if your braaaand new it will help but i still dont notice much
What about the other aspect of this? The jiggling using rapid tapping on one key and holding the other? It becomes way easier and faster if one key input is ignored in this case
The acceleration of movement kind of negates this as a big issue. This is more of a problem in games with no acceleration like overwatch.
@@WhyitJellyDonut okay nice
Jiggling is dead in CS2, not even walls can save you from subtick
i believe your should do average test with not so good players to see how good actually is(if it is) , most pros already master the counter strafing
so hopefully alot of not so good players get this keyboard for some comparison
I think these system aren't helping pros that much but casuals up to maybe semi pro level. My biggest issue I've with these systems isn't even that tho. My issue maybe comes because I'm 35 and play CS since 25 years and know what matters: This game is that interesting and longterm fun because you can learn something new every day and can get so much better at so many different things. Counter strafing is just one tiny thing out of thousands of things of this game and yet you can spend thousands of hours training it and get better the longer you learn it. Whenever systems come up that remove training a specific thing you remove something a player can work on which will eventually result in him beeing less interested in the game because the skillcap isn't as high anymore.
Which Settings for CS2 with Rapid Trigger are good ?
Minimum on movement keys, average on shift and control, maximum on jump, buy menu, utility etc.
Hah, i got the huntsman on monday, been dabbling with it for the past couple of days and when asked about snap tap by friends I had the exact same feedback. Fast trigger is, in fact, the bigger deal. You can see it best with the deagle since its the most punishing weapon in the game.
To put it in short I feel like snap tap + rapid trigger would probably give you about 5% - 10% more in terms of output, meaning that you might be able to dodge an extra bullet here and there, and land a bullet you’d normally miss here and there.
However i feel like the subject has been over exaggerated due to the way optimum presented in his clip, not to mention the title. In reality, if your crosshair placement is shit, your muscle memory untrained and your decision making in terms of choosing when to spray/tap/burst this keyboard won’t help you accomplish jack shit, ain’t even gonna factor in game sense or knowing how to peek an angle in specific situations.
Last but not least i urge the people who are crying over it to actually try and full slide without letting go of your key while also pressing the other movement key, you will positively feel retarded, there is no way that will ever be the norm, ever.
Pro just haven't adjusted to it. Doesn't prove that snap tap doesn't help. My counter strafe on leetify went up from 83% percent to 90% in multiple games, I rarely hit 90% before socd
Valve created a clear rule to counter strike: Every help inside or outside the game that improve your skills is considered cheating.
At this point the only solution is building snap tap into the game itself to keep it from becoming pay to win. The hardware is virtually undetectable without manual review of gameplay and I don't think steam could really afford that.
If your movement is decent enough, around lvl 10 Faceit 2k elo, then you will not notice much difference tbh. Did not notice any improvements.
Tbh i don't think Snap Tap is that bad, it's just that people learned how to counter-strafe without it and with it you do it a little differently, i think in due time people will learn how to use it
you haven't seen what wooting did to osu proplay scene
Osu is gay
@@walter2440this
@@walter2440 it's gay in a gay way
its not a big deal for new players but now I invented new peek 💀
question, is rapid trigger that important for cs2?
iam shook when looking at those keyboard prices with rapid trigger costing 200$+
i rather save money to upgrade pc first
Rapid trigger is great but if you need frame take the frames over rapid trigger for sure. Wait for Chinese knockoffs if you can't (understandably) afford the wooting, they are most probably coming to market at some point
Among pros? The differences wont be super noticeable (though it obviously does provide an advantage). Aim, team concession, map knowledge will show the best results. Among pubs? Yeah i can see it being a pretty big deal. A casual player with poor movement can seem like an average or even good player with mechanical assistance. I'd like to see an experiment where casuals play with and without the keyboard difference. With one group knowing they are using SOCD and the other group unaware of the changes, and then seeing the results and how much they felt it improved or if it was a placebo.
How can faceit even determine you're using this feature if they do "change their minds" and not that you're simply very good at releasing keys at the same time as pressing the other one?
If you can do it hundreds of strafes with no overlap or no missing input for 40 minutes then you aren't human and Faceit doesn't allow robots to play
speaking FACTS! releasing your strafe key and also tapping the opposite key is BEST! sure there might be a small case it might help! but this won't help! rapid trigger helps the most! but it's not as GROUND Breaking or changing as going from 60, 144, and 240hz and having better PC hardware! and faster internet and of course Ping Advantage
I don't think SOCD is bad, this is something that has been in keypads for a very long time now. It wouldn't have been very hard to use it in CS in the first place
It's not going to give a crazy advantage for those who already know how to counterstrafe.
For other games like Overwatch where there is no counterstrafing for accuracy it can be a decent advantage, but even then, it's not going to be huge.
To be honest I tried this mechanic with an AutoHotKey script and it really doesn't seem that great for games like CS2. Maybe Overwatch 2, I'd try it in Apex Legends but I'm scared of getting banned so I didn't.
yep, only works with analog switches. the delay of regular mechanical switches is to long to notice anything.by the time you have pressed d to counter strafe you would need to instantly let go of both a and d.
The reason its not cheating, is because it removes the latency created by the keyboard during counter strafes. Instead of having to WAIT for the key switch to deactivate, its "instant". Its removing the keyboard latency when changing keys, close to real time movement. Timing and muscle memory is simply humans adapting to the weakness of key switches. Now with analogue and laser key switches, we can measure exactly when a person moves their fingers. Its not an advantage, its just that NOT using snap tap is a disadvantage. Its like deliberately using a 60hz monitor which gives you a disadvantage in reaction time.
That's false, that's not removing latency, that's ignoring an input. With SOCD/SnapTap you can hold A then hold D but it will only register that you are holding D despite the fact that you are still holding A. You can literally download a software that does this on any keyboard or you can use nullbinds that do the same thing.
This is not a latency issue nor is it a hardware issue.
As someone with a wooting keyboard I play worst with it even after trying to get used to it so I keep it off
I ordered a huntsman v3 pro purely for rapid trigger, and it arrived on the exact day of the snap tap update lol
I love that you brought in other players who are very good at the game and also someone who isn't very good to compare and contrast. Great video Mr.Voo!
you didnt talk about the jiggle strafe what optimum covered
Being ok with rapid trigger but not null binds smacks of "i only want me and other gamers who have hundreds of dollars to sp3nd on a keyboard to have an advantage"...
Comparision in video is wrong - you are focused to counter-strafe perfectly, but it is not possible all the time and snap tap "fix it".
Snap Tap is just rises the skill floor. After half year break I have perfect counter-strafing with this feature, that was not the case in preview come back after breaks.
I think it makes sense and its completely fair. Just putting in your last input.
Nahh, you know whats cheating? An optical or magnetic switch keyboard over a mechanical. Being able to set acuation points offers a massive advabtage in reaction time. Running null scripts on a mechnical feels like molasses regardless.
If we want fairness, theyd just standardize all keyboards to have a set actuation point and remove all scripted binds.
I saw a commeng that said snap tap sets a bad precedent and i fully agree. If anything, null binds should be banned and everyine should own a wooting. Going from a mech keyboard to a Wooting felt pike cheating, truly.
Ugh, what a load of shit this is.
Isn't competition about perfecting your skill? The rest is just tools and they should not give you advantage.
Yep. That is why justifying socd is a moot argument.
Thank you for this vid voo some of the other test videos I saw were really awful at showing anything useful