I agree. It dose take a lot of finesse to play neutral and chaotic evil. If a player was interested in trying evil for the first time lawful evil is the best starting point.
@@TheSinisterheroes in my opinion while its the most accessable it also has the highest skill ceiling as in every time you make one you can do it better than the last. So much to explore here. I love it
@@Dr.Ham_longsword absolutely, alignment is very easily repayable. you always pick up a few things along the way. things that you may have not thought of, when creating and adapted.
@@TheSinisterheroes Had a lot of positive reviews from a Chaotic Evil character I played, was a Gnome Summoner in Pathfinder with a homebrewed summon table. He worshipped Jubilex, and his summoning table was mostly Oozes (thematically, he was tapping into that plane). His Eidolon was ooze themed, and almost never came out. When he did, it was secretive, and he was out to feed. Essentially, his goal was to harness the power of Jubilex, no matter the cost. He took leadership and eventually would sneak away to host underground rallies to garner support from fellow believers that his sidekick Drow was recruiting while he would travel. His affiliation with the party was generally superficial, using them to manipulate local government leaders and exploit his leadership skills to run a business out of a fort we'd requisitioned in preparation for a war. The end goal was to become the right hand man of a king HE would install, someone malleable who either feared or respected him. He was never forthcoming with his plan, and the DM was so hyped about where it could go later that he was hoping I'd eventually rise to be an end-game boss, where once the grand scheme was finally revealed, I'd turn into an NPC and have to reroll. Nobody else in the party knew they were my henchman, they just thought I was messed up from all my time underground lol.
LE: I am a merc .. i kill for money ... ohh look an easy opportunity for more profit or you could go with the angle of: "There is no profit in mindless slaughter.... mindful slaughter however..."
LE is my favorite alignment to play because I love being an anti-hero. The thing I try to nail down beforehand is how do my goals align with the party, and how does it diverge, because if you can understand that, you can avoid most conflicts with your party while still pursuing your nefarious plot
Perfect!!! Well done John. That’s a great way to set up a clear way to be who your character is destined to be and make your DM’s happy that you will not be hurting the party.
My understanding for the three 'Evil' Alignments is thus: Chaotic Evil - Motivated by selfishness coupled with immediate whims. They are not incapable of planning or patience, but they are most likely to act on an immediate concern with less regard for consequences. Neutral Evil - Has a code but they keep it flexible so they can effectively adapt it for their interests. In the words of Hector Barbossa "They're more like guidelines anyway." Lawful Evil - Most likely to have a code of conduct they adhere to out pragmatism or the ability to use pre-existing laws for their own gain and satisfaction. I remember guys who played the last two, actually. A Neutral Evil Rogue/Warlock who was a former Assassin in Luskan that held himself to a code of rules so he could appear professional to prospective clients but kept it intentionally vague and flexible so he could adapt it when necessary. The latter was a Champion Fighter who was essentially a sociopath with murderous tendencies which he kept in check with rules to be a functional member of society while making money by satisfying his bloodlust.
Those characters the rogue and the fighter are really great examples of how to use your alignment as flavor to your character, but not succumbing to them. Being smart enough to know that you have to interact with the world around you so blatant acts of evil will hinder that so they must be kept under wraps.
You are confusing chaotic evil with intelligence. Many stupid monsters are chaotic evil And act as you say. But a chaotic evil person Can train and be intelligent and patient. James bond and some of his incarnations... A trained killer Who is loyal to his boss because it's convenient will Use women drinking andgambling His passions to achieve his ends. If the woman he sleeps with get murdered so be it he had a good time. He is willing to take great risks break the rules Whenever convenient. Or conan The barbarian Was totally loyal to his men But hardly cares if they die to achieve his ends. He will steal from his employer If he feels he has been badly treated He has no loyalty because he is employer but only because of how he is treated. He will kill without 1⁄2 thought to achieve his ends. He is borderline chaotic neutral Because he doesn't Enjoy Torture and what not Killing people in Killing people in combat For the sake of killing. Just make him a little bit more Cruel to his enemies For the sake of crueltyAnd you have a perfect intelligent chaotic evil. He does have He does have a whimiscal side... He spends his money on it Party lifestyle But he's very serious To achieve that lifestyle. He just has very little interest In empty titles and society. If he needs to burn down a city to get what he needs He'll do that.
One of the best examples of a Lawful Evil character in media: Doctor Doom. Keeps his word (but will pervert it as he sees fit), rules a nation, rules tyrannically, predictable (but very powerful), and in his individual case, brilliant.
The greatest character I ever played was a pure lawful evil paladin obsessed with god and follow his commands, but having a complete sadistic thrill to the actions I commit. It helps a lot using the Old Testament as a basis for the character, mega fun times
I once won a rather intense debate. I was asked what alignment I thought Riddick was. My friends variously argued for chaotic/neutral evil, and true neutral. I responded "Lawful neutral" My argument 1: though he seldom gave his word, he always honored his word when he did 2; he judged people based on how well they lived up to the morality and ethics they claim to follow. 3: he had no problem killing someone who is a threat without trying diplomatic solutions, but will go out of his way to protect the truly innocent or those whom are true to their beliefs.
I can definitely follow that even in the last film where he lost his kingdom so to speak. When he was trying to survive where he was he raised a pet tested the stinger of an animal that was dangerous to him on the pet and then built him self a resistance to it very methodical but he keept the pet and raised it. Lawful neutral Seems viable.
"Glory is won on the battlefield! Glory is meeting your enemy's eyes and watching the hope drain away with his life... Glory is not won holed up in a castle with plots and cowardly schemes. And I'll be dead before I let some dynast farm lord take today's glory in my stead."
My interpretation for LE is more of someone like Littlefinger. My 2 rules for a lawful evil character: 1. What's in for me? (Appreciate the benefit system coming from outside) 2. What can I get away with? (Acceptance of the limitation system coming from outside)
Little finger is an awesome study of a character! Yes your right on those points. Little finger dose this wonderful thing where he plans leagues ahead of his enemies and just waits for his moment.
@@dreamup8431 ensuing chaos to gain position can be a little grey because you vying for power in a structure in the case of littlefinger. your not destroying the structure you causing everyone to loose there mind so you can take power. in that respect it leans lawful as you are still holding onto the power structure. which i believe was the point. if little finger was more so trying to destroy the structure of power and positions and nobility through chaos it would be more chaotic evil. a lot of this is interpretation , the main point is that little finger looks many moves ahead and his evil nature allocates him to be a best suited type of evil for a player character.
@@dreamup8431 a ladder of what? To what goal? Without the laws and the system there's nothing to climb. Especially Littlefinger used the system to climb the system. A little chaos, yes, shattering the players, but never the system. Look at the "Dark knights"-Joker. He wants chaos, all be burned. Littlefinger would have no place in his world.
Now I want to make a Lawful Evil character, I do like this dynamic tho and as a DM it’s awesome to give the players that opportunity, the struggle I find is when evil and good characters want to play in the same party, everyone is out being mischievous and sadistic and the paladin just has to break his code and stay silent? Hmm
Oh don’t you worry I’ll be covering that in the chaotic evil video cus that’s really where it can be an issue and dealing with that is the main topic for playing that kind of a character
@@zach415 did that my party was totally freaked out when they found out that he was that sort of paladin and he was just using the party to help over throw the leadership of a massive continental wide criminal organization in order to place himself at the top of the organization.
This was really helpful information. I have seen a lot of evil in my life, and I think my experience is like most: we encounter narcissists and tweakers who are sort of just CE, Careerists and absolute selfishness which is NE, but LE is that really rare one… and it’s the most scary by far. A high level demon that can’t be bothered with minor punishments and rules over lesser evils is a lot like a District Attorney. His role is to arbitrate over all of the vice and corruption in society but to still have the veneer of lawful authority while he does it. Very good video
In real life lawful evil people are corrupt police officers. Organized crime. Corporate business people with no ethics But who try to follow the law And move up the ranks in society. They often appear to be good. The cartoon character lex luthor Tries to portray himself as a Paragon of the community. And for the most part succeeds Unmasked.
I think a great example of a Lawful Evil character is Tywin Lannister. He is lawful in that House Lannister is his be all and end all. It is his absolute unbreakable code. He cannot bring himself to abide any action or word which demeans or lessens the Lannister name. And as hard as he is to his enemies, he is supremely conscious of how his words and actions impact House Lannister. Moreover, he imposes these rules upon himself and other Lannisters as much or more than on the wider world. - He always prefers the benefits of the rigidly enforced power structure, and a position in that structure which provides the most benefit and least risk for Lannister, that is King's Hand, Lord Regent (power behind the throne). - He cannot oversee a breach of the sacred Guest Right himself, because it will demean the Lannister name. But he can bribe/intimidate the Freys and Boltons into the act. - He will inflict cruelty and punishment on those who are his enemies, but he is actually quite safe to be around, because he, as a Lannister, will never breach social nicety. He always prefers enemies to surrender without a fight. - He cannot even consider the notion that his daughter the Queen would commit incest, even if it would make the Lannisters rulers in their own right, because incest is awful in the eyes of the 7, the Seven are the Lannister gods, and it would utterly disgrace the family. He is evil in that he will inflict almost limitless cruelty without consideration of human cost. But it doesn't bring him personal enjoyment. Another good one is Danzo, from Naruto. Danzo is ruthlessly self serving and cruel, utterly tyrannical, but so long as it is done for Konoha, the village he loves, and particularly making him the leader of that village (something his mind has made synonymous with success), he can justify anything. He is truly evil, will murder and take hostages, but he cannot break the code of advancing his village. When the chips are down, he will die for the village.
Yes Tywin is a perfect example. Also one of my favorite characters (nothing beats the love of my life Cersei) he is cruel calculating lawful ambitious, and he suffers no insult. He’s so awesome. There’s a great character analysis that really shows a lot of great subtle things the actor dose to convey Tywin and it just makes him so much better
I have a concept for a lawful evil character... A Blackguard who doesn't seek to kill everyone bit sees the need for law and code as a soldier. Wants to destroy the petty nobles who left him and his command to die.
I played a Lawful Evil Kobold Death Cleric of Tiamat in an Out of the Abyss campaign and he was a bit different but also quite similar compared to how you recommend evil characters to be. He didn't think anywhere close to a grand scale with his 8 intelligence and he couldn't intimidate or manipulate worth for shit with 8 charisma. His ultimate goal was, of all things, friendship. Not out of a desire to help people he cares about, but more to recover the sense of community he lost after his clanmates were all killed. He also thought that as the only dragon in the party, he was in charge but was too easily intimidated and backed down when someone wanted to do something their way. Slim was on the run from the forces of Bahamut and fled into the underdark where he was captured by Drow. The kobold felt a sense of attachment to the fleshy ones that he helped in his grand escape attempt and knew the benefits of traveling in a larger group in the dangerous underdark so he decided to spare his new companions, even the gnome. Traveling and trying to survive with them made him feel like he was part of a clan again before they were all wiped out by the forces of Bahamut. With his great power and outstanding leadership Slim fought through the darkness, battled mighty foes, and healed the gnome over and over so it could get hurt more without dying and thus hurting the kobold's chance at survival. In his defining moment, Slim singlehandedly held off the Demon Prince Orcus by trapping a bunch of Drow with the prince and fleeing with the rest of his friends. That's where we ended since the DM had grad school stuff but I was glad to have the time I did with Slim. Despite being evil, he ended up being the heart of the group since he thought he was in charge and he hand no moral hang-ups about working with the party members and the NPCs. The DM worried I might 'betray the party' before the campaign started but Slim really helped the group stick together more than anyone else. His ultimate goal Also the death cleric and the kobold weirdly synergize and he ended up being kind of powerful even though our campaign ended long before Tasha's Cauldron said "Fuck it, do whatever you want with your ability scores."
Wow!!! That is awesome!!!!. That is a perfect character. I see you kept true to the lore also🔥🔥🔥. I laughed when I read he even healed the gnome. That’s a really good representation of being evil. You didn’t spend every session being evil. You were evil when it mattered. You followed the lore really well as a kobold wanting to be with others and really integrated that well into his actions and reasoning. Keeping his natural enemy the gnome alive for his sake and keeping the group together as the heart, it fits well as incorporating the ideals of lawful evil. Don’t worry about having the limits of 8 intelligence, you can think big it’s just your going to be wrong or it’s a really hap hazardly maid plan. Awesome story it made my morning reading it.
This video genuinely helps thank you, me and my friends are starting a more evil campaign and my dm allowed me to be chaotic evil in that game. This video has been insightful and informative.
Lawful Evil is great because your character can still exist in the civilized world and not have to risk becoming a complete outlaw. Gives you a wider array of possible interactions and attainable intrigues than the other Evil alignments.
It is the most realistic evil alignment the easiest evil alignment to play in my mind, and finally the best kind of villain. I say that because you can logically follow them and some of them can be really easy to understand and root for
As a player, i have yet to dwell in this very type of character trait since i usually stuck with either chaotic good to a conical sense to a lawful neutral to fully understand both sides of the argument. So I told our forever dm that this time for our upcoming campaign story i chose this very alignment. In a smart remark he says to me. " bout F%#kin time... been dying to see after ten fricken years of the type of villain you are. " we all had a laugh cause im known as the monster player guy who chose minotaur, grung, tri-keen and even a giant duerangar in a one shot but never a evil type until now. Doing research now thanks to you for this vid. As for where im currently resting my thoughts on. Im thinking leanis bounty hunter
@TheSinisterheroes I do respect the normal choices of like humans, elf's, dwarves and halflings. In my case, I look at as a challenge to see how to either break the game to the point where it's too hilarious for even the dm to continue since my golden grunge spiritual bard already has with the deck of many cards. ( trust me when I say I was momentarily a god for but brief moments before aoa got soo annoyed of my raspy singing voice to the point that I was kicked out from the godly plains by pissing off every god of the pantheon, making helm play bouncer and yelling " by the us who witnessed this blasphemous yelping wart onto all!! Who inspired this fools gold to sing in our plane of existence!!! " and basically returned me back to the game through the void magic. Only cause it played out to the point that everyone died in tears laughing at my grunge. ) or how to really draw out in role play many layers in them. Now I wanna challenge myself on how to be useful while growing hate amongst my friends while making it a strong possibility that my guy earns the title of bbeg. If it does happen oh I'm gonna dm it in a death tournament setting in the most messed up ways worse than mortal kombat.
Interesting perspective. I always remember the words of a russian chess grandmaster and exiled opponent of putin who said "these tyrants, they always think tactically, you know." So they don't tend to be long-term strategists. Almost like there's something inherently shortsighted about selfishness, and enlightened self-interest is a better strategy if not tactic. But evil has many faces. I tend to give my evil characters specific antisocial traits; some are more considered and careful, and others are more impulsive. The problem of the human monster is one I would rather ignore, but it is pressing, and complicated.
That is one highly educated opinion!. I think playing evil characters offers this great dynamic to the party. I was actually just talking to a friend about DM’s that don’t allow evil characters and why that is. It was a good discussion. And I cover it in another video, but seeing the world in a bigger scope and having long term goals, even if they are constantly evolving, is a necessity so you can set up the structures you need to not derail the campaign.
Nice comment & quote, but they equate to an almost null value due to how absurd they are. Firstly, if you're speaking of Garry Kasparov, it makes sense for him to say this as he was an opponent of Putin; a man who is famous on the geo-political stage for being a shortsighted tactician with little in the way of long-term planning. Garry's political experience is *HIGHLY* limited, and Putin is his only real exposure to power-players on such a level; hence his uneducated opinion. He is still a chess player, before anything else. With regards to the rest of your comment; as I said, simple absurdity. Rulers have always tended towards being grand-strategists before anything else, and literally any number of examples can be given (Napoleon, Augustus, Caesar, Alexander, Henry II, Elizabeth I, Peter The Great, etc.) You have to be of a primarily strategical nature to navigate the treacherous world of politics in the first place; where grand plots, schemes & agendas have to be balanced and taken into account when making any action. All movements must be calculated in anticipation of rivals. Tacticians are usually occupied in the positions of battle commanders, such as Subutai Khan, Agrippa, Patton, Rommel, Marc Antony, etc. All men who could make quick maneuvers in the heat of action to overcome a given threat (usually, as I said, on the battlefield), but were overwhelmed by the grander scale of political navigation once they dipped their toes into it. Also, "enlightened self-interest" is a populist lie created by the masses, in an attempt to fool the self-serving into being compassionate. The only thing that exists is rational self-interest, which is the exact same thing as selfishness; and there's nothing "inherently shortsighted" about it at all lmao. Quite the contrary, excessive amounts of selfishness in a person would almost require a methodical personality to actually realize their desires. There's a reason the self-serving, cold, calculated & conniving archetype for characters exists. It is based upon reality. People may choose to believe their rulers are incompetent and short-sighted, but it is only out of a knee-jerk reaction to help them sleep at night; nothing more, nothing less.
I concede all those points. I'm not read in all the history and politics. But ideologically, I invite you to consider the value of universal moral principles as something more true and useful than a mere opioid for the masses. For your happiness, and also for the rest of us. It kind of sounds like you're adamant about cynicism of human nature, which is reasonable, but bleak. Wouldn't it be great if you were wrong, and love conquered all?
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no wow I am impressed with the intellect behind your argument. Very well spoken. Though I think both of you are sharing a similar theology that I am trying to instill. Which is that to be self serving and cold it is beneficial to think in the long term.
@@isaacs1052 I apologize for my brash approach in my first comment. Also, I respect your maturity; you certainly seem a cut above others on this platform. That said, no. I do not like morality, or sentimental concepts such as "love". To be quite frank, they disgust the fuck out of me; and I mean in this in the least 'edgy' way possible. I view love as the result of a chemical compulsion propelling organisms towards their breeding prerogative; and morality is a vast sociological blanket meant to comfort the minds of the weak, as well as corrupt the minds of the strong into feeling pity for them. Also, I don't need or want morality for my happiness lol. I achieve my happiness through ambition & achievement. I enjoy competition, and the thrill of overcoming seemingly insurmountable odds. I enjoy conquest. I enjoy power. I am not cynical about human nature, because I fucking love human nature.
LE I find an incredibly fun alignment to play. however, Evil needs a far more thought out background than a Good alignment, IMHO. a niche I like is an extreme form of Ethical Egoism ( a self centered morality), as it can be a very robust framework and lens to justify actions through. for example, a Lawful Good character would be a good neighbor because they value close knit community, promoting an environment of cooperation, both as a system to exist in, but also for everyone else to enjoy. It is an effort of promoting a structure of benevolence. A Lawful Evil character would be a good neighbor because they don't want an enemy next door, they don't want neighbors to be suspicious. It is an effort of promoting a structure for self preservation. the logical conclusion of it is, a LE character values how their agency plays out within a structure (external or internal) more than someone else's life, but will be hesitant to cause instability. As instability can threaten their self preservation. In terms of grandiose - I find a similarity between CN and LE, CN values personal freedom in a "no restraints on me" way - will avoid burdens but won't cause suffering to maintain their freedom. LE on the other hand has a tendency to position themselves so that they choose their restraints in such a way that is ultimately self-serving, which yields a "I will not be denied" type of freedom. This type of freedom manifests as both "no one can challenge me" and "I cannot be challenged", and while this sounds similar, are quite different. the former is the declaration that they will win in the action they take, and the latter is that the system they inhabit cannot allow the person to be challenged. This is a level of self-assured security which can easily lead to hubris and a grandiose nature. It is tyrannical in outlook, with variable scale, but it can yield "Good" results depending on the party and story. If the BBEG wants to remake the world in their own image or cause Chaos, the LE can oppose it and be aligned with the "Good" party without any contradiction. ("why are you on our side?" "I live here") Had a campaign where my LE PC believed he was the only on with the will to control the BBEG's power source (to assuage his own trauma), an item which could be used for good, but he would rather see it destroyed if not in his possession or rather, not in his control. He valued his own agency more than everyone in the party, and more than any of the characters or factors of the story. On the surface, he appeared LN but perhaps a bit dark, but everyone served for him to get the BBEG's item. EDIT: meant CN not CE.
That is a really in depth analysis. The more often I play evil characters the more I agree that a strong back story is a necessity. The reasonings and motivations to work towards a mutually beneficial goal while being so self serving is hard to do well. A lot of the time it’s too easy to just let evil alignment go and just be evil. The issue is you have to be goal oriented with evil being your method. If you don’t have checks in place for your character morally from your backstory, you have no way to contain your evil tendencies. Knowing your place in a society where your dependent on others shows a need for restraint. I agree with what you said, and you said it waaaaayyy better than I ever could.
I'm normally play true neutral but recently our DM has us rolling to see if our alignments change due to us being in Avernus. Since we are playing Baldur's Gate Descent Into Avernus. Last session I rolled and my alignment changed to Lawful Evil. I play a skeletal reborn lineage monk and idk how to play Lawful Evil. So this video really helps.
I drew the balance card and am now lawful evil. im trying to think of things my artificer can do now that hes the axact opposite. before he enjoyed tinkering and making cool things for adventure. but now maybe he is thinking about ways to own everything, to possibly enslave people using his creations... but maybe thats too much. its a tough one
Start small. Don’t consider enslaving the galaxy unless you learn how to enforce your will. Take some things slow. The only thing I’d say you should do right off the bat is be heavy handed with punishments. Enemies cross you make one live then take both of their hands. What ever it is no one expects you to be lawful evil every single second of every single day. Build into the tyrant you wish to be.
Best portrayals of a LE character that I have seen are the Operative from the movie Serenity and General Zod from Man of Steel. There was a world/society that is supposed to work in this very specific way that they are trying to save/protect/recreate, and the protagonists are in the way or actively thwarting that goal. They aren’t happy about what they are doing, but it is Necessary! “I’m trying to build a world of Peace and Harmony, and you’re just in the way.” “Where’s your place in that world you want to make?” “I don’t have a place in that world. I’m a monster. But that world is worth any sacrifice, every sacrifice.” Every character wound tight enough to be an adventurer, to put yourself on the line to be either a hero or villain, has an idea about the way the world is or should be that drives them, that makes everything worth it. That concept, if proven wrong or false, will destroy them as surely as an opponent’s final blow.
I am not sure if I ever saw serenity. But yes I agree with your statement. It’s about more than just murder and violence it has to build to something and secure that things future. That’s why I love lawful evil
Lawful evil applies to a lot of golden age rulers, Genghis khan, qin shin huang(idk how to spell his name) are one of the few examples. Both commited atrocities to further their goal, also built a lot of foundation of their race/civilazation.
Very true like in the movie hero with jet lee, jet lee went to go kill the big bad but then he realized that the leader caused an end to a lot of strife because he conquered the land and United everyone under one banner. So if jet lee was to kill the bad guy it would plunge the world into chaos, as all the strife would return. The emperor was horribly evil but he now was this bastion of peace. You are so right about that.
@@TheSinisterheroes another example of great leaders who fit in lawful evil are the earlier ottoman sultans. Basically the strongest princes will inherit the throne, while the weaker princes get excuted because their throne inheritance policy. Ironically when the pratice of infanticide stopped i think in 1600s/1700s, the dynasty produced a lot of weak heirs, which played a major factor toward the stagnation and eventual fall of the empire.
Best tip I can give you for a new player is to take the time and ask other players about your class or species. It has been my experience that the player base is amazingly supportive and love to be re ignited by talking about there favorite classes
Lawful Evil is just that one meme video thing that always pops up on RUclips Shorts Kid: Comes home with a truck Parents: Where did you get that truck? Kid: The neighbor sold it to me for $10 Parents: She must not be thinking right, we should check on her Neighbor: Hello? Parents: Did you sell your truck to my son for $10 Neighbor: Yes Parents: Why? Neighbor: A few days ago i got a call from my husband's boss saying he ran off with his co worker and doesn't plan on returning Parents: I'm sorry Neighbor: Later my husband called saying his wallet was stolen and to sell his truck and send him the money, so i did
Great video! I'm playing a LN conquest paladin w/ LE tendencies, conflicted between worship of Loviatar & Torm. She views herself as the party leader, whether they like it or not, and constantly tries to corrupt the party by suggesting evil acts like torturing prisoners for information and blackmailing NPCs for the party's advantage. So fun!
@J Co I guess it would be a manipulator. Someone that uses there talents with people to fight there battles for them. Like the polar opposite of a support bard. Someone who uses enemies abound or suggestion to cause foes to fight amongst them selves. Like a character who whispers deceit into the minds of powerful leaders to crush there rivals
@J Co I would imagine an evil manipulator to be neutral evil due to the nature that the manipulator wouldn’t be imposing there will to get what they want but using other peoples vices for there own gain.
Perfect conduit for Lawful Evil: I once talked to Japanese people about the attitude Japan had during WW2, and on the war crimes done by the government of Imperial Japan (which were worse than the Nazis btw). The attitude is very simple: their views on war are different from the rest of the world. Whereas the US may call burning entire towns and slaughtering their inhabitants a massacre, Imperial Japan considered literal human experimentation to be a mere act of war. This is because Japan, although a militaristic nation, has never really fought in a major war since the 1500s, so various standards such as justifications for war became more and more limited. Imagine a world where the forces of Asmodeus are invading the world. Soldiers of Asmodeus would fight in this conflict in a similar manner to how they would fight in the blood war - with sheer and utter brutality beyond that anyone could imagine. Noone would care about how they would simply mind-control entire villages into committing suicide, destroy entire continents, and commit a literal genocide, as that is viewed as the entire point of a war.
That is a beautiful representation of lawful evil. Brutality for clear and concise purpose. Well structured argument Caesar. It’s very clear you took the time to understand the statements from the various people you spoke to. It truly is a great example, and easily transferable to D&D.
@@TheSinisterheroes Thanks. Another great example is Bev Keane from Midnight Mass. Her whole purpose is to produce a "perfect" world that's "doing the right thing" - free from annoyances and inconveniences. What makes her evil is the length she took in order to do this. For example, she gave private Bible lessons to the Muslim kid and tried to brainwash him into church. She killed a homeless drunkard after he legitimately improved his ways, and then got some folks to hide his body. She even killed a dog in the first episode by putting rat poison into his food, getting away with this completely. Sadly, this is a viewpoint of many people IRL. They usually distinguish themselves as "special" and put an emphasis on "doing the right thing" - even when it's not. Although usually seeming like good people, their sinful nature affected my family in many ways.
I enjoyed midnight mass. You are absolutely correct her cruel nature to all those who she perceived to be in her way, is a perfect example of a lawful evil cleric in this case. It’s a great example.
We started Curse of Strahd a few weeks ago, and I made a LE rogue assassin - named Vigo Varnella - with the urchin background. Basically, he sees society as unjust, as rich people and nobles get richer and more influential, and poor people like him stay poor. His main goal is to have his sister have a chance to a normal life without too much trouble. Vigo bloodies his hands with criminal activities to provide for his sister. My character and other player's character (a cleric with a good alignment) actually had a short debate in good spirit about a quest and whether we should accept a reward. Vigo debated that ideals won't keep your belly full, while Thrór the Cleric argued that doing good is it's own reward.
@@TheSinisterheroes I have in mind to turn the anti-heroic rogue into more heroic character over the course of the campaign, realizing that even if he's just one man, he can make a difference. Thus far, he has acted as a lonely criminal looking for meagre living as a bouncer, a thug and a thief for higher criminals of the underworld's foodchain. The DM has introduced a couple of NPCs - a child named Mira and Vigo's teenaged sister Vereena - and I think they will have an positive impact on Vigo.
That’s what it’s about. Let the story evolve and roll with it. Even if it is lucrative helping people and being a hero can really change a mindset, so can a few well mannered people with different opinions challenging you to be better.
I tried to create a LE Character with the idea of a Jack the Ripper kind of guy He is a SoulKnife Rogue who has a strong desire to kill but on the surface he is the towns detective who solves murders and helps the townspeople
Ok this is the last character I promised to share this character is called Kai harbinger a Hexblood paladin who was adopted by babayaga who was the one responsible for turning him into a Hexblood as a child and has a great desire to conquer the world or at least a nation at minimum because of babayaga's influence obviously oath of conquest and he has the second skin Dark gift and his second form is a deformed looking individual Hexblood with his left arm that is shriveled up but still functional and the right arm is swollen and still functional and his face is hideously deformed with large lumps on his face like that of a hunchback but the rest of his body is still buff and fit and the crown around his head is larger and spikier his deity is Bane God of tyranny
@@TheSinisterheroes agreed I tried giving each of these three characters I've been working on one of the dark three as their deity for that same reason I hope you enjoyed learning about my characters
I am building a lawful evil Hobgoblin who's clan was wiped out by a Elven patrol she ended up joining The Chill military band so she can train herself up to get revenge on the Elves she even became a bladesinger just so she can use there own discipline against them and to remind her of what she has lost
Hobgoblins are a perfect example of lawful evil. If you dive deep into there lore there is so much there to re enforce who a hobgoblin is and how important there legion is.
@@TheSinisterheroes Agreed Hobgoblins have become my new favourite race I thought they was like Goblins which is why I did not take a closer look at them at first Goblins in my opinion come off as a bit silly not really my cup of tea but the Hobgoblins hit my sweet spot
Of course, anyone should play however they please. But when I do Lawful Evil, I enjoy being a bit flexible with what constitutes as lawful or evil. Is trying to enforce your rule, no matter the cost, in a world gone mad - truly and absolutely essentially evil? Is opposing existing structures always inherently chaotic? Say you're part of some rebel faction within a kingdom in the middle of a civil war. Perhaps you fight with the rebels, who in typical settings are almost always the good guys, and at least compared to the existing structures, chaotic. But the reason your character is fighting alongside them is because you perceive the existing structures as being too weak to hold the fabric of society together. That for whatever reason, they have failed, and a new order must be established. However, from within the rebels, who say wishes to establish some sort of democratic society, you on the other hand attempt to form your own faction which strives to form some type of military dictatorship. Let's even go as far as to say you're successful in your ambitions. You have done something that typically would be associated with lawful evil, through chaotic and potentially good deeds. You have restored order to the realm. Your path to power has been marked with ruthlessness and brutality. Yet the result of your deeds has ultimately accomplished some good ends. Some might even argue that in the grand scheme of things, you are "the greater good." And as many might know, many of those who strive towards the greater good, are often themselves capable of heinous deeds. To me, a well rounded Lawful Evil character has nuances, and they may not even be inherently evil *in essence* at all. This distinguishes itself from Lawful Neutral, in that the character still ultimately does not shy away from actively being brutal, or committing truly heinous crimes, again - so long as it accomplishes some perceived greater end. Good archetypes for this include anti-villains.
That is a great assessment of how to incorporate malleability into your character. Your right to be flexible. It helps to draw people into your character. One of the things that’s important is to note you don’t always have to be evil every second of every day. A lot of what the alignment states is that evil have this inherent brutality and disregard for life. That dosent mean you have to be insanely brutal and murderous while your buying food and reading a book. The meaning behind your actions don’t have to be evil . You touched on that point very very well. Bigger scope of what you want to do when playing evil characters I believe is very important. In what you said trying to over through a failing system can be seen as chaotic and even good. But the fundamental of wanting to replace it with your rule is what makes it lawful evil. Sprinkle in a few laws to force others to live by and your golden. You have a very great way of presenting an idea. Very well thought out id love to hear your opinions about chaotic and neutral alignments wether they be evil or neutral.
@@TheSinisterheroes It has a lot to do with consistency of character in my opinion. And more specifically, the consistency of *your* character. Does this align with your character's personality? That is not to say characters could act inconsistently in the right situation. For instance if a lawful good character is placed in a situation where doing the right thing is mutually exclusive with saving someone they love. Put on the spot, they might do something that is inconsistent with their ethos, but these situations would be highly specific. But furthermore, I think of the alignment chart as a guideline, rather than a strict rule. Lawfulness may not necessarily mean blind adherence to the rules, just as chaotic might not necessarily mean wild abandon towards the rules - if it makes little sense for them to break them. A chaotic character may not necessarily go out of their way to break the rules just because they can. To me, it's simply that the rules aren't as binding on their conscience. Of course, they might if it fits their personality, and almost certainly will if they're chaotic evil. So take the example of a chaotic neutral mercenary of sorts. They do not necessarily particularly care about the rules, and might not be afraid of breaking them either. That being said, if it is advantageous for them to work within a set of rules, for instance rules for a mercenary guild, they may very well adhere to them. It's not that they can't operate by rules, it's rather that they can be incredibly picky about what rules apply, and which do not. In this sense, the chaotic neutral has a lot in common with the lawful evil. Chaotic evil is a complicated subject. Like all the others, how it will play out depends a lot on the character in question. See, I do not think of the alignment chart as something that influences the character's behavior. I think of it inversely. That that the character influences the alignment chart's relevance to them. So in the case of a more or less mindless form of evil, a force of nature that is, they're not necessarily even inherently evil. They simply exist as a force of entropy in the world, that cares very little for the world's relationship to it. It's only evil in the sense that other beings would perceive it as evil. Is the wolf evil for pursuing your farm animals? Not really, it simply does as nature does. The farmer perceives it as an evil threat, because it represents an immediate danger to the farmer. The same could apply to an eldritch horror. If the chaotic evil character is guided by some form of intelligence or sapience on the other hand, then they are driven by some form of motivation. Whether or not there is a particular reason behind the motivation depends. They might be more like the Joker from Batman. While he does derive pleasure from causing suffering and despair, he doesn't do things for the sake of evil. He does things to challenge society in general. To prove that everything in the world is a farce, and that order is a meaningless facade. That deep inside, there's a little Joker in all of us. This shows especially whenever he tries to challenge the Batman into breaking his own rules. To me, Chaotic Evil is often less of an inherent evil, and more like a Chaotic Chaotic. The utmost edge of Chaos you could possibly adhere to. Of course, this will also greatly depend on the setting of the campaign. Usually in D&D settings there will be objective forces of good and evil as determined by the rules of that world. But personally I've always found that to be too restrictive for character building. To summarize, what being lawful, chaotic, good, neutral or evil means, is not necessarily fixed. Their meaning changes and shifts depending on the personality of your character. I once played a Lawful Evil character in a group of adventurers consisting exclusively of good and neutral characters. Among those characters, my Lawful Evil character adhered much more to principles and ideals of justice, than most of the Neutral characters. So much so, that it pretty much cleared my character of suspicion from the good characters. They thought of me as rough around the edges, but ultimately good. They didn't see the betrayal coming.
The idea of alignment I really enjoy because I find putting rules and things to help dictate behavior really beneficial in creating a character. When it comes to player characters you need malleability in there personas for growth reasons and for following the story. So alignment should follow that malleability. It is such a wonder to me that People misuse evil alignment and limit them selves so much.
Doesnt need to be but i think Lawful Evil care desperately about their public image, they dont wanna be known for drunkenness and a brothel visiter (chaotic evil wouldn’t care if they were known to be this or not) although they might own a tavern or brothel or own the people that run them. And just a fun little bit at the end here. I played a lawful evil wizard before and its sad that he was the voice of reason in the party lol
That makes a lot of sense. This image of a tyrant has certain caveats to it. You never see Darth Vader having a drink, partying. Or even eating. That sets up this great imagery that he never unwinds that he is always laser focused. That finds its self really well to how a lawful evil character wants everyone to see them. I am so glad your wizard was the voice of reason. First of your a wizard you should be smart. Secondly your not looking to cause your self more trouble than necessary. The laws are integral to the lawful chargers. Finding the ways to use it for your own gains. Well played Jacob
I'm making a build for a lawful evil character, but I want to make sure I'm using lawful evil correctly before I get too far into the build. For now, I'm calling her Lilith. Lilith's goal is, to put it simply, power. She wants to become the next 'big bad', and she must destroy the current big bad in order to do so. To make things easier for herself, Lilith joins a band of heroes and helps them along. By getting rid of big bad, she will clear up space while also becoming higher in society. People will see her as a hero and a leader. To her, this is the only correct route to power, and any other way is sloppy, ineffective, and overall inferior. Lilith sees almost all other evildoers this way. Petty criminals are mere pests, and only lesser villains resort to crude violence. Keep in mind, she is not without morals. She doesn't find joy in killing. She feels compassion, and she can empathize with others. She may even grow attached to the party over time, but ultimately, they are only a means to an end. Does this fit the lawful evil alignment?
Don’t worry about it lol it happens all the time. Sorry for the late response but I must of been asleep when you posted it, then I had to run to work. The thing that makes it a little difficult to pin down is how Lilith sees violence and murder. As she dosent enjoy it, and feels compassion and can grow to care for others. If the circumstances develop it can lead her to becoming a good person morally. If that happens through story cool it happens. Just if your idea is to be lawful evil, you may want to embrace a heavier hand. Maybe you can use your detest for murder as something that bothers you only when others commit it. Keeping it for yourself to use as punishment.
Thanks for the feedback! I'll keep that in mind when continuing this build. And no worries about a late response, I'm not in any kind of rush. Again, thank you. Have a nice day!
Hmmm, ok, seems I played my character in Pathfinder: Kingmaker, wrong. I played my character evil but always in a righteoues way. That means, I didn't have punish someone who suffered from the old regent selfish laws but went full on death sentences when someone tried to steal resources, seems too shady or tried to fool me. You could say the motto was: "Be loyal and follow my orders and you will have nothing to fear. But if you try to trick me, betray me, my realm and people, you will suffer and die!". That was my way to play a lawful evil. I played pragmatic, avoid unnecessary kills as long as they didn't seem to be a threat and tried to have always healthy towns where the economic booms, the military is strong and life standarts are perfect in all aspects. Everyone else doesn't matter as long as they aren't useful. The only people that counts are my denizens, my realm and my companions. Foreign people have to be useful to deserve my help. This was my way to play lawful evil. Act pragmatic, strategic and righteoues on the one side but punish hard and kill everyone who is or could be a threat for you.
I think you did everything right. Don’t get me wrong it is our opinions the context of these videos. To be lawful evil yes there is this heavy handed extreme of disregard for the living condition. I believe based on what you wrote that yes your character was lawful evil. You might not be as evil as some other lawful evil characters in existence, but you definitely make the grace. The thing is, if your character was much worse, much much worse, would you of enjoyed them? Consider what you have written being a sadist with your punishment would of gone against the pragmatic thought process. Your character would have to be rather different. I think you made your character perfect, I say this because I can see the pride in between the lettering. That’s the most important thing. You definitely enjoyed that character. That character was lawful evil to the extent you were comfortable with. Maybe I play a tad tooo dark for others, what I might be comfortable with may pass that line for others. We are just a helpful hint into what we enjoy and think is right. Trust that we often need to be pulled back, for the mutual respect of our fellow players from time to time, maybe for our own well being as well. You took the time to justify your actions for the good of all those you felt were your responsibility. Holding back your hand in part shows that. Though it was not what you may have wanted it was what was best for your group. You had the strength to be cruel. The forethought to value what outsiders had before deciding if they should live. That’s good leadership.
@@TheSinisterheroes Thanks for the fast answer. Personally, I'm not such a fan of villains who are so simple evil written. For example, I am not a fan of these simple, generic villains who just treat people awful because they (the villains) are awful. And chaotic evil characters are annoying because in my imagination they would just set everyone and everything in fire. I am a fan of villains who have more of a Roman-Empire mindset. You are evil but not in a such overdone cruel torture way but more in a calm, rational, logical and manipulative way. This is my picture of a perfect villain. On the surface you appear righteous and good, but in reality you are very manipulative and just help people because they could become useful to you.
That’s great because you could always add layers to them. In fact a lot of our current heroes are written with a similar mentality. The way you considered that kind of evil is very applicable in a lot of ways as player characters as well. I agree chaotic evil is challenging. Though if done well it can be fun for the party in a lot of ways.
I'm doing a LE character that is basically a Karen more than anything else. Making others suffer, asking goblins to speak to their boss (fun thing, get them to do it, throw in a fireball and close the door.) Basically be nasty but not an asshole, I've called it in the past Lawful Bitch, be mean to everyone, use your influence but never step out of line.
Oh man lol. Just be careful, in consideration to your party, it is great to be a karen to the enemies. It sounds like a blast especially if you play it out with some humor.
BTW. Not on-topic, but you mentioned you love Dune. Have you ever thought of using the D&D system to do a Dune Campaign? I read the original 6 books about 5 times each, was kinda "Meh" about the prequels, and WA seriously chapped with the two sequels. Three books worth of build-up for what? Bubkus! If you decide to do so, let me know. I can give you some help. A friend used the Storyteller system to do a short Dune campaign.
Lawful evil is probably the most acceptable evil for a player to play as without there character becoming a problem at the table
I agree. It dose take a lot of finesse to play neutral and chaotic evil.
If a player was interested in trying evil for the first time lawful evil is the best starting point.
@@TheSinisterheroes in my opinion while its the most accessable it also has the highest skill ceiling as in every time you make one you can do it better than the last. So much to explore here. I love it
@@Dr.Ham_longsword absolutely, alignment is very easily repayable. you always pick up a few things along the way. things that you may have not thought of, when creating and adapted.
@@TheSinisterheroes Had a lot of positive reviews from a Chaotic Evil character I played, was a Gnome Summoner in Pathfinder with a homebrewed summon table. He worshipped Jubilex, and his summoning table was mostly Oozes (thematically, he was tapping into that plane). His Eidolon was ooze themed, and almost never came out. When he did, it was secretive, and he was out to feed. Essentially, his goal was to harness the power of Jubilex, no matter the cost. He took leadership and eventually would sneak away to host underground rallies to garner support from fellow believers that his sidekick Drow was recruiting while he would travel. His affiliation with the party was generally superficial, using them to manipulate local government leaders and exploit his leadership skills to run a business out of a fort we'd requisitioned in preparation for a war. The end goal was to become the right hand man of a king HE would install, someone malleable who either feared or respected him. He was never forthcoming with his plan, and the DM was so hyped about where it could go later that he was hoping I'd eventually rise to be an end-game boss, where once the grand scheme was finally revealed, I'd turn into an NPC and have to reroll. Nobody else in the party knew they were my henchman, they just thought I was messed up from all my time underground lol.
LE: I am a merc .. i kill for money
... ohh look an easy opportunity for more profit or you could go with the angle of:
"There is no profit in mindless slaughter.... mindful slaughter however..."
LE is my favorite alignment to play because I love being an anti-hero. The thing I try to nail down beforehand is how do my goals align with the party, and how does it diverge, because if you can understand that, you can avoid most conflicts with your party while still pursuing your nefarious plot
Perfect!!! Well done John. That’s a great way to set up a clear way to be who your character is destined to be and make your DM’s happy that you will not be hurting the party.
My understanding for the three 'Evil' Alignments is thus:
Chaotic Evil - Motivated by selfishness coupled with immediate whims. They are not incapable of planning or patience, but they are most likely to act on an immediate concern with less regard for consequences.
Neutral Evil - Has a code but they keep it flexible so they can effectively adapt it for their interests. In the words of Hector Barbossa "They're more like guidelines anyway."
Lawful Evil - Most likely to have a code of conduct they adhere to out pragmatism or the ability to use pre-existing laws for their own gain and satisfaction.
I remember guys who played the last two, actually. A Neutral Evil Rogue/Warlock who was a former Assassin in Luskan that held himself to a code of rules so he could appear professional to prospective clients but kept it intentionally vague and flexible so he could adapt it when necessary. The latter was a Champion Fighter who was essentially a sociopath with murderous tendencies which he kept in check with rules to be a functional member of society while making money by satisfying his bloodlust.
Those characters the rogue and the fighter are really great examples of how to use your alignment as flavor to your character, but not succumbing to them. Being smart enough to know that you have to interact with the world around you so blatant acts of evil will hinder that so they must be kept under wraps.
You are confusing chaotic evil with intelligence. Many stupid monsters are chaotic evil And act as you say. But a chaotic evil person Can train and be intelligent and patient. James bond and some of his incarnations... A trained killer Who is loyal to his boss because it's convenient will Use women drinking andgambling His passions to achieve his ends. If the woman he sleeps with get murdered so be it he had a good time. He is willing to take great risks break the rules Whenever convenient. Or conan The barbarian Was totally loyal to his men But hardly cares if they die to achieve his ends. He will steal from his employer If he feels he has been badly treated He has no loyalty because he is employer but only because of how he is treated. He will kill without 1⁄2 thought to achieve his ends. He is borderline chaotic neutral Because he doesn't Enjoy Torture and what not Killing people in Killing people in combat For the sake of killing. Just make him a little bit more Cruel to his enemies For the sake of crueltyAnd you have a perfect intelligent chaotic evil. He does have He does have a whimiscal side... He spends his money on it Party lifestyle But he's very serious To achieve that lifestyle. He just has very little interest In empty titles and society. If he needs to burn down a city to get what he needs He'll do that.
One of the best examples of a Lawful Evil character in media: Doctor Doom. Keeps his word (but will pervert it as he sees fit), rules a nation, rules tyrannically, predictable (but very powerful), and in his individual case, brilliant.
Your absolutely correct. Doom is a great example. He also works with other heroes to save the world on countless events
The greatest character I ever played was a pure lawful evil paladin obsessed with god and follow his commands, but having a complete sadistic thrill to the actions I commit. It helps a lot using the Old Testament as a basis for the character, mega fun times
I find as long as you keep your heavy hand of justice facing npc’s it works really well.
I once won a rather intense debate.
I was asked what alignment I thought Riddick was.
My friends variously argued for chaotic/neutral evil, and true neutral.
I responded "Lawful neutral"
My argument
1: though he seldom gave his word, he always honored his word when he did
2; he judged people based on how well they lived up to the morality and ethics they claim to follow.
3: he had no problem killing someone who is a threat without trying diplomatic solutions, but will go out of his way to protect the truly innocent or those whom are true to their beliefs.
I can definitely follow that even in the last film where he lost his kingdom so to speak. When he was trying to survive where he was he raised a pet tested the stinger of an animal that was dangerous to him on the pet and then built him self a resistance to it very methodical but he keept the pet and raised it. Lawful neutral Seems viable.
"Glory is won on the battlefield! Glory is meeting your enemy's eyes and watching the hope drain away with his life... Glory is not won holed up in a castle with plots and cowardly schemes. And I'll be dead before I let some dynast farm lord take today's glory in my stead."
GLORY!!!!! Your very right on the money with that!
My interpretation for LE is more of someone like Littlefinger.
My 2 rules for a lawful evil character:
1. What's in for me? (Appreciate the benefit system coming from outside)
2. What can I get away with? (Acceptance of the limitation system coming from outside)
Little finger is an awesome study of a character! Yes your right on those points. Little finger dose this wonderful thing where he plans leagues ahead of his enemies and just waits for his moment.
But he creates chaos to gain advantage…remember, ‘chaos is a ladder’. That is a strong argument that he’s actually chaotic evil.
@@dreamup8431 ensuing chaos to gain position can be a little grey because you vying for power in a structure in the case of littlefinger. your not destroying the structure you causing everyone to loose there mind so you can take power. in that respect it leans lawful as you are still holding onto the power structure. which i believe was the point. if little finger was more so trying to destroy the structure of power and positions and nobility through chaos it would be more chaotic evil. a lot of this is interpretation , the main point is that little finger looks many moves ahead and his evil nature allocates him to be a best suited type of evil for a player character.
@@dreamup8431 a ladder of what? To what goal? Without the laws and the system there's nothing to climb. Especially Littlefinger used the system to climb the system. A little chaos, yes, shattering the players, but never the system.
Look at the "Dark knights"-Joker. He wants chaos, all be burned.
Littlefinger would have no place in his world.
All I’m saying is that he’s using chaos to achieve his goals. Seems straight forward to me. Now Joffrey may be a better example of chaotic evil.
Me watching this as I have never played a DnD sesh and accepting my rule as the "honorable bad boy"
You have been chosen the path of great resistance, and great glory.
Now I want to make a Lawful Evil character, I do like this dynamic tho and as a DM it’s awesome to give the players that opportunity, the struggle I find is when evil and good characters want to play in the same party, everyone is out being mischievous and sadistic and the paladin just has to break his code and stay silent? Hmm
Oh don’t you worry I’ll be covering that in the chaotic evil video cus that’s really where it can be an issue and dealing with that is the main topic for playing that kind of a character
What if the paladin is a Lawful Evil oath of conquest?
@@zach415 did that my party was totally freaked out when they found out that he was that sort of paladin and he was just using the party to help over throw the leadership of a massive continental wide criminal organization in order to place himself at the top of the organization.
This was really helpful information. I have seen a lot of evil in my life, and I think my experience is like most: we encounter narcissists and tweakers who are sort of just CE, Careerists and absolute selfishness which is NE, but LE is that really rare one…
and it’s the most scary by far. A high level demon that can’t be bothered with minor punishments and rules over lesser evils is a lot like a District Attorney. His role is to arbitrate over all of the vice and corruption in society but to still have the veneer of lawful authority while he does it.
Very good video
Thank you I really appreciate it.
In real life lawful evil people are corrupt police officers. Organized crime. Corporate business people with no ethics But who try to follow the law And move up the ranks in society. They often appear to be good. The cartoon character lex luthor Tries to portray himself as a Paragon of the community. And for the most part succeeds Unmasked.
I think a great example of a Lawful Evil character is Tywin Lannister.
He is lawful in that House Lannister is his be all and end all. It is his absolute unbreakable code. He cannot bring himself to abide any action or word which demeans or lessens the Lannister name.
And as hard as he is to his enemies, he is supremely conscious of how his words and actions impact House Lannister. Moreover, he imposes these rules upon himself and other Lannisters as much or more than on the wider world.
- He always prefers the benefits of the rigidly enforced power structure, and a position in that structure which provides the most benefit and least risk for Lannister, that is King's Hand, Lord Regent (power behind the throne).
- He cannot oversee a breach of the sacred Guest Right himself, because it will demean the Lannister name. But he can bribe/intimidate the Freys and Boltons into the act.
- He will inflict cruelty and punishment on those who are his enemies, but he is actually quite safe to be around, because he, as a Lannister, will never breach social nicety. He always prefers enemies to surrender without a fight.
- He cannot even consider the notion that his daughter the Queen would commit incest, even if it would make the Lannisters rulers in their own right, because incest is awful in the eyes of the 7, the Seven are the Lannister gods, and it would utterly disgrace the family.
He is evil in that he will inflict almost limitless cruelty without consideration of human cost. But it doesn't bring him personal enjoyment.
Another good one is Danzo, from Naruto. Danzo is ruthlessly self serving and cruel, utterly tyrannical, but so long as it is done for Konoha, the village he loves, and particularly making him the leader of that village (something his mind has made synonymous with success), he can justify anything.
He is truly evil, will murder and take hostages, but he cannot break the code of advancing his village. When the chips are down, he will die for the village.
Yes Tywin is a perfect example. Also one of my favorite characters (nothing beats the love of my life Cersei) he is cruel calculating lawful ambitious, and he suffers no insult. He’s so awesome.
There’s a great character analysis that really shows a lot of great subtle things the actor dose to convey Tywin and it just makes him so much better
I have a concept for a lawful evil character... A Blackguard who doesn't seek to kill everyone bit sees the need for law and code as a soldier.
Wants to destroy the petty nobles who left him and his command to die.
That fits in very well. Killing for purpose to enforce a code or law is lawful evil
I played a Lawful Evil Kobold Death Cleric of Tiamat in an Out of the Abyss campaign and he was a bit different but also quite similar compared to how you recommend evil characters to be.
He didn't think anywhere close to a grand scale with his 8 intelligence and he couldn't intimidate or manipulate worth for shit with 8 charisma. His ultimate goal was, of all things, friendship. Not out of a desire to help people he cares about, but more to recover the sense of community he lost after his clanmates were all killed. He also thought that as the only dragon in the party, he was in charge but was too easily intimidated and backed down when someone wanted to do something their way.
Slim was on the run from the forces of Bahamut and fled into the underdark where he was captured by Drow. The kobold felt a sense of attachment to the fleshy ones that he helped in his grand escape attempt and knew the benefits of traveling in a larger group in the dangerous underdark so he decided to spare his new companions, even the gnome. Traveling and trying to survive with them made him feel like he was part of a clan again before they were all wiped out by the forces of Bahamut. With his great power and outstanding leadership Slim fought through the darkness, battled mighty foes, and healed the gnome over and over so it could get hurt more without dying and thus hurting the kobold's chance at survival. In his defining moment, Slim singlehandedly held off the Demon Prince Orcus by trapping a bunch of Drow with the prince and fleeing with the rest of his friends.
That's where we ended since the DM had grad school stuff but I was glad to have the time I did with Slim. Despite being evil, he ended up being the heart of the group since he thought he was in charge and he hand no moral hang-ups about working with the party members and the NPCs. The DM worried I might 'betray the party' before the campaign started but Slim really helped the group stick together more than anyone else. His ultimate goal
Also the death cleric and the kobold weirdly synergize and he ended up being kind of powerful even though our campaign ended long before Tasha's Cauldron said "Fuck it, do whatever you want with your ability scores."
Wow!!! That is awesome!!!!. That is a perfect character. I see you kept true to the lore also🔥🔥🔥. I laughed when I read he even healed the gnome.
That’s a really good representation of being evil. You didn’t spend every session being evil. You were evil when it mattered. You followed the lore really well as a kobold wanting to be with others and really integrated that well into his actions and reasoning. Keeping his natural enemy the gnome alive for his sake and keeping the group together as the heart, it fits well as incorporating the ideals of lawful evil.
Don’t worry about having the limits of 8 intelligence, you can think big it’s just your going to be wrong or it’s a really hap hazardly maid plan.
Awesome story it made my morning reading it.
This video genuinely helps thank you, me and my friends are starting a more evil campaign and my dm allowed me to be chaotic evil in that game. This video has been insightful and informative.
I am so happy to have read that best of luck in your campaign. My the dice be on your side
Lawful Evil is great because your character can still exist in the civilized world and not have to risk becoming a complete outlaw. Gives you a wider array of possible interactions and attainable intrigues than the other Evil alignments.
It is the most realistic evil alignment the easiest evil alignment to play in my mind, and finally the best kind of villain. I say that because you can logically follow them and some of them can be really easy to understand and root for
As a player, i have yet to dwell in this very type of character trait since i usually stuck with either chaotic good to a conical sense to a lawful neutral to fully understand both sides of the argument. So I told our forever dm that this time for our upcoming campaign story i chose this very alignment. In a smart remark he says to me. " bout F%#kin time... been dying to see after ten fricken years of the type of villain you are. " we all had a laugh cause im known as the monster player guy who chose minotaur, grung, tri-keen and even a giant duerangar in a one shot but never a evil type until now. Doing research now thanks to you for this vid. As for where im currently resting my thoughts on. Im thinking leanis bounty hunter
So you have been playing monsters with good hearts?
That’s something I do often
@TheSinisterheroes I do respect the normal choices of like humans, elf's, dwarves and halflings. In my case, I look at as a challenge to see how to either break the game to the point where it's too hilarious for even the dm to continue since my golden grunge spiritual bard already has with the deck of many cards. ( trust me when I say I was momentarily a god for but brief moments before aoa got soo annoyed of my raspy singing voice to the point that I was kicked out from the godly plains by pissing off every god of the pantheon, making helm play bouncer and yelling " by the us who witnessed this blasphemous yelping wart onto all!! Who inspired this fools gold to sing in our plane of existence!!! " and basically returned me back to the game through the void magic. Only cause it played out to the point that everyone died in tears laughing at my grunge. ) or how to really draw out in role play many layers in them. Now I wanna challenge myself on how to be useful while growing hate amongst my friends while making it a strong possibility that my guy earns the title of bbeg. If it does happen oh I'm gonna dm it in a death tournament setting in the most messed up ways worse than mortal kombat.
The book The 48 Laws of Power is a great reference for building a LE character.
I have never heard of that book, what is it?
@@TheSinisterheroes ruclips.net/video/Gshj67oY9Lw/видео.htmlsi=xpuB2Yc2KNQczUKG
@@TheSinisterheroes It’s an evil book designed to teach you how to control people’s perception of you. It’s worth reading.
@@TheSinisterheroesIt’s an evil book designed to teach you how to control people’s perception of you.
Really good video, nicely put together and articulated very well :) Really helped me out!
That’s awesome I am so happy I could help!!!
"This planet isn't *yours* to conquer"
But it will be. Loved Omni man
Interesting perspective. I always remember the words of a russian chess grandmaster and exiled opponent of putin who said "these tyrants, they always think tactically, you know." So they don't tend to be long-term strategists. Almost like there's something inherently shortsighted about selfishness, and enlightened self-interest is a better strategy if not tactic.
But evil has many faces. I tend to give my evil characters specific antisocial traits; some are more considered and careful, and others are more impulsive.
The problem of the human monster is one I would rather ignore, but it is pressing, and complicated.
That is one highly educated opinion!. I think playing evil characters offers this great dynamic to the party. I was actually just talking to a friend about DM’s that don’t allow evil characters and why that is. It was a good discussion. And I cover it in another video, but seeing the world in a bigger scope and having long term goals, even if they are constantly evolving, is a necessity so you can set up the structures you need to not derail the campaign.
Nice comment & quote, but they equate to an almost null value due to how absurd they are.
Firstly, if you're speaking of Garry Kasparov, it makes sense for him to say this as he was an opponent of Putin; a man who is famous on the geo-political stage for being a shortsighted tactician with little in the way of long-term planning. Garry's political experience is *HIGHLY* limited, and Putin is his only real exposure to power-players on such a level; hence his uneducated opinion. He is still a chess player, before anything else.
With regards to the rest of your comment; as I said, simple absurdity. Rulers have always tended towards being grand-strategists before anything else, and literally any number of examples can be given (Napoleon, Augustus, Caesar, Alexander, Henry II, Elizabeth I, Peter The Great, etc.) You have to be of a primarily strategical nature to navigate the treacherous world of politics in the first place; where grand plots, schemes & agendas have to be balanced and taken into account when making any action. All movements must be calculated in anticipation of rivals.
Tacticians are usually occupied in the positions of battle commanders, such as Subutai Khan, Agrippa, Patton, Rommel, Marc Antony, etc. All men who could make quick maneuvers in the heat of action to overcome a given threat (usually, as I said, on the battlefield), but were overwhelmed by the grander scale of political navigation once they dipped their toes into it.
Also, "enlightened self-interest" is a populist lie created by the masses, in an attempt to fool the self-serving into being compassionate. The only thing that exists is rational self-interest, which is the exact same thing as selfishness; and there's nothing "inherently shortsighted" about it at all lmao. Quite the contrary, excessive amounts of selfishness in a person would almost require a methodical personality to actually realize their desires.
There's a reason the self-serving, cold, calculated & conniving archetype for characters exists. It is based upon reality. People may choose to believe their rulers are incompetent and short-sighted, but it is only out of a knee-jerk reaction to help them sleep at night; nothing more, nothing less.
I concede all those points. I'm not read in all the history and politics. But ideologically, I invite you to consider the value of universal moral principles as something more true and useful than a mere opioid for the masses. For your happiness, and also for the rest of us. It kind of sounds like you're adamant about cynicism of human nature, which is reasonable, but bleak. Wouldn't it be great if you were wrong, and love conquered all?
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no wow I am impressed with the intellect behind your argument. Very well spoken. Though I think both of you are sharing a similar theology that I am trying to instill. Which is that to be self serving and cold it is beneficial to think in the long term.
@@isaacs1052 I apologize for my brash approach in my first comment. Also, I respect your maturity; you certainly seem a cut above others on this platform.
That said, no. I do not like morality, or sentimental concepts such as "love". To be quite frank, they disgust the fuck out of me; and I mean in this in the least 'edgy' way possible. I view love as the result of a chemical compulsion propelling organisms towards their breeding prerogative; and morality is a vast sociological blanket meant to comfort the minds of the weak, as well as corrupt the minds of the strong into feeling pity for them.
Also, I don't need or want morality for my happiness lol. I achieve my happiness through ambition & achievement. I enjoy competition, and the thrill of overcoming seemingly insurmountable odds. I enjoy conquest. I enjoy power. I am not cynical about human nature, because I fucking love human nature.
I don't buy it, this guy is too handsome to have ever played dungeons and dragons. Probably a paid actor.
I’ll take the pay in xp
LE I find an incredibly fun alignment to play. however, Evil needs a far more thought out background than a Good alignment, IMHO.
a niche I like is an extreme form of Ethical Egoism ( a self centered morality), as it can be a very robust framework and lens to justify actions through.
for example, a Lawful Good character would be a good neighbor because they value close knit community, promoting an environment of cooperation, both as a system to exist in, but also for everyone else to enjoy. It is an effort of promoting a structure of benevolence.
A Lawful Evil character would be a good neighbor because they don't want an enemy next door, they don't want neighbors to be suspicious. It is an effort of promoting a structure for self preservation.
the logical conclusion of it is, a LE character values how their agency plays out within a structure (external or internal) more than someone else's life, but will be hesitant to cause instability. As instability can threaten their self preservation.
In terms of grandiose - I find a similarity between CN and LE, CN values personal freedom in a "no restraints on me" way - will avoid burdens but won't cause suffering to maintain their freedom.
LE on the other hand has a tendency to position themselves so that they choose their restraints in such a way that is ultimately self-serving, which yields a "I will not be denied" type of freedom.
This type of freedom manifests as both "no one can challenge me" and "I cannot be challenged", and while this sounds similar, are quite different.
the former is the declaration that they will win in the action they take, and the latter is that the system they inhabit cannot allow the person to be challenged. This is a level of self-assured security which can easily lead to hubris and a grandiose nature.
It is tyrannical in outlook, with variable scale, but it can yield "Good" results depending on the party and story. If the BBEG wants to remake the world in their own image or cause Chaos, the LE can oppose it and be aligned with the "Good" party without any contradiction. ("why are you on our side?" "I live here")
Had a campaign where my LE PC believed he was the only on with the will to control the BBEG's power source (to assuage his own trauma), an item which could be used for good, but he would rather see it destroyed if not in his possession or rather, not in his control. He valued his own agency more than everyone in the party, and more than any of the characters or factors of the story. On the surface, he appeared LN but perhaps a bit dark, but everyone served for him to get the BBEG's item.
EDIT: meant CN not CE.
That is a really in depth analysis. The more often I play evil characters the more I agree that a strong back story is a necessity.
The reasonings and motivations to work towards a mutually beneficial goal while being so self serving is hard to do well.
A lot of the time it’s too easy to just let evil alignment go and just be evil. The issue is you have to be goal oriented with evil being your method.
If you don’t have checks in place for your character morally from your backstory, you have no way to contain your evil tendencies. Knowing your place in a society where your dependent on others shows a need for restraint.
I agree with what you said, and you said it waaaaayyy better than I ever could.
I'm normally play true neutral but recently our DM has us rolling to see if our alignments change due to us being in Avernus. Since we are playing Baldur's Gate Descent Into Avernus. Last session I rolled and my alignment changed to Lawful Evil. I play a skeletal reborn lineage monk and idk how to play Lawful Evil. So this video really helps.
I am so happy to have read that. Thank you so much
I drew the balance card and am now lawful evil. im trying to think of things my artificer can do now that hes the axact opposite. before he enjoyed tinkering and making cool things for adventure. but now maybe he is thinking about ways to own everything, to possibly enslave people using his creations... but maybe thats too much. its a tough one
Start small. Don’t consider enslaving the galaxy unless you learn how to enforce your will. Take some things slow. The only thing I’d say you should do right off the bat is be heavy handed with punishments. Enemies cross you make one live then take both of their hands. What ever it is no one expects you to be lawful evil every single second of every single day. Build into the tyrant you wish to be.
Best portrayals of a LE character that I have seen are the Operative from the movie Serenity and General Zod from Man of Steel. There was a world/society that is supposed to work in this very specific way that they are trying to save/protect/recreate, and the protagonists are in the way or actively thwarting that goal. They aren’t happy about what they are doing, but it is Necessary! “I’m trying to build a world of Peace and Harmony, and you’re just in the way.”
“Where’s your place in that world you want to make?”
“I don’t have a place in that world. I’m a monster. But that world is worth any sacrifice, every sacrifice.”
Every character wound tight enough to be an adventurer, to put yourself on the line to be either a hero or villain, has an idea about the way the world is or should be that drives them, that makes everything worth it. That concept, if proven wrong or false, will destroy them as surely as an opponent’s final blow.
I am not sure if I ever saw serenity. But yes I agree with your statement. It’s about more than just murder and violence it has to build to something and secure that things future. That’s why I love lawful evil
Lawful evil applies to a lot of golden age rulers, Genghis khan, qin shin huang(idk how to spell his name) are one of the few examples. Both commited atrocities to further their goal, also built a lot of foundation of their race/civilazation.
Very true like in the movie hero with jet lee, jet lee went to go kill the big bad but then he realized that the leader caused an end to a lot of strife because he conquered the land and United everyone under one banner. So if jet lee was to kill the bad guy it would plunge the world into chaos, as all the strife would return. The emperor was horribly evil but he now was this bastion of peace.
You are so right about that.
@@TheSinisterheroes another example of great leaders who fit in lawful evil are the earlier ottoman sultans. Basically the strongest princes will inherit the throne, while the weaker princes get excuted because their throne inheritance policy. Ironically when the pratice of infanticide stopped i think in 1600s/1700s, the dynasty produced a lot of weak heirs, which played a major factor toward the stagnation and eventual fall of the empire.
Wow just wow. I had no idea about the Ottoman Empire, that’s pretty cool
Thanks, I'm just starting to play D&D and this is great help
Best tip I can give you for a new player is to take the time and ask other players about your class or species. It has been my experience that the player base is amazingly supportive and love to be re ignited by talking about there favorite classes
Lawful Evil is just that one meme video thing that always pops up on RUclips Shorts
Kid: Comes home with a truck
Parents: Where did you get that truck?
Kid: The neighbor sold it to me for $10
Parents: She must not be thinking right, we should check on her
Neighbor: Hello?
Parents: Did you sell your truck to my son for $10
Neighbor: Yes
Parents: Why?
Neighbor: A few days ago i got a call from my husband's boss saying he ran off with his co worker and doesn't plan on returning
Parents: I'm sorry
Neighbor: Later my husband called saying his wallet was stolen and to sell his truck and send him the money, so i did
Lol that’s amazing
Great video very informative.
Thank you!!! Really appreciate it and thanks for commenting
Great video! I'm playing a LN conquest paladin w/ LE tendencies, conflicted between worship of Loviatar & Torm. She views herself as the party leader, whether they like it or not, and constantly tries to corrupt the party by suggesting evil acts like torturing prisoners for information and blackmailing NPCs for the party's advantage. So fun!
It’s a beautiful thing to hear you having so much fun with an evil character. Just remember to not be evil to the party and your gold !!!
@J Co I guess it would be a manipulator. Someone that uses there talents with people to fight there battles for them. Like the polar opposite of a support bard. Someone who uses enemies abound or suggestion to cause foes to fight amongst them selves. Like a character who whispers deceit into the minds of powerful leaders to crush there rivals
@J Co I would imagine an evil manipulator to be neutral evil due to the nature that the manipulator wouldn’t be imposing there will to get what they want but using other peoples vices for there own gain.
Perfect conduit for Lawful Evil:
I once talked to Japanese people about the attitude Japan had during WW2, and on the war crimes done by the government of Imperial Japan (which were worse than the Nazis btw). The attitude is very simple: their views on war are different from the rest of the world. Whereas the US may call burning entire towns and slaughtering their inhabitants a massacre, Imperial Japan considered literal human experimentation to be a mere act of war. This is because Japan, although a militaristic nation, has never really fought in a major war since the 1500s, so various standards such as justifications for war became more and more limited.
Imagine a world where the forces of Asmodeus are invading the world. Soldiers of Asmodeus would fight in this conflict in a similar manner to how they would fight in the blood war - with sheer and utter brutality beyond that anyone could imagine. Noone would care about how they would simply mind-control entire villages into committing suicide, destroy entire continents, and commit a literal genocide, as that is viewed as the entire point of a war.
That is a beautiful representation of lawful evil. Brutality for clear and concise purpose.
Well structured argument Caesar. It’s very clear you took the time to understand the statements from the various people you spoke to. It truly is a great example, and easily transferable to D&D.
@@TheSinisterheroes Thanks. Another great example is Bev Keane from Midnight Mass.
Her whole purpose is to produce a "perfect" world that's "doing the right thing" - free from annoyances and inconveniences. What makes her evil is the length she took in order to do this. For example, she gave private Bible lessons to the Muslim kid and tried to brainwash him into church. She killed a homeless drunkard after he legitimately improved his ways, and then got some folks to hide his body. She even killed a dog in the first episode by putting rat poison into his food, getting away with this completely.
Sadly, this is a viewpoint of many people IRL. They usually distinguish themselves as "special" and put an emphasis on "doing the right thing" - even when it's not. Although usually seeming like good people, their sinful nature affected my family in many ways.
I enjoyed midnight mass. You are absolutely correct her cruel nature to all those who she perceived to be in her way, is a perfect example of a lawful evil cleric in this case.
It’s a great example.
@@TheSinisterheroes Question is... what is the alignment of the main vampire guy?
@@juliuscaesar5397 the priest or the actual vampire that turned the priest?
We started Curse of Strahd a few weeks ago, and I made a LE rogue assassin - named Vigo Varnella - with the urchin background. Basically, he sees society as unjust, as rich people and nobles get richer and more influential, and poor people like him stay poor.
His main goal is to have his sister have a chance to a normal life without too much trouble. Vigo bloodies his hands with criminal activities to provide for his sister.
My character and other player's character (a cleric with a good alignment) actually had a short debate in good spirit about a quest and whether we should accept a reward. Vigo debated that ideals won't keep your belly full, while Thrór the Cleric argued that doing good is it's own reward.
I would of liked to see that debate play out. That’s a cool moment when ideals meet and you get to really see what a character is like
@@TheSinisterheroes I have in mind to turn the anti-heroic rogue into more heroic character over the course of the campaign, realizing that even if he's just one man, he can make a difference. Thus far, he has acted as a lonely criminal looking for meagre living as a bouncer, a thug and a thief for higher criminals of the underworld's foodchain.
The DM has introduced a couple of NPCs - a child named Mira and Vigo's teenaged sister Vereena - and I think they will have an positive impact on Vigo.
That’s what it’s about. Let the story evolve and roll with it. Even if it is lucrative helping people and being a hero can really change a mindset, so can a few well mannered people with different opinions challenging you to be better.
I tried to create a LE Character with the idea of a Jack the Ripper kind of guy
He is a SoulKnife Rogue who has a strong desire to kill but on the surface he is the towns detective who solves murders and helps the townspeople
I love it!!! There is a background from curse of Strahd that is an investigator that might be right up your ally
Ok this is the last character I promised to share this character is called Kai harbinger a Hexblood paladin who was adopted by babayaga who was the one responsible for turning him into a Hexblood as a child and has a great desire to conquer the world or at least a nation at minimum because of babayaga's influence obviously oath of conquest and he has the second skin Dark gift and his second form is a deformed looking individual Hexblood with his left arm that is shriveled up but still functional and the right arm is swollen and still functional and his face is hideously deformed with large lumps on his face like that of a hunchback but the rest of his body is still buff and fit and the crown around his head is larger and spikier his deity is Bane God of tyranny
I got a lot of love for the dark three. Bane has ambition like no other.
@@TheSinisterheroes agreed I tried giving each of these three characters I've been working on one of the dark three as their deity for that same reason I hope you enjoyed learning about my characters
Lawful evil is tyranny, chaotic evil is anarcho-tyranny.
Very well said
👍🏾👍🏾🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 I Have a better understanding now thanks!
I am glad I can help !!! Thanks so much for watching everything!!! It really means a lot to us
I am building a lawful evil Hobgoblin who's clan was wiped out by a Elven patrol she ended up joining The Chill military band so she can train herself up to get revenge on the Elves she even became a bladesinger just so she can use there own discipline against them and to remind her of what she has lost
Hobgoblins are a perfect example of lawful evil. If you dive deep into there lore there is so much there to re enforce who a hobgoblin is and how important there legion is.
@@TheSinisterheroes Agreed Hobgoblins have become my new favourite race I thought they was like Goblins which is why I did not take a closer look at them at first Goblins in my opinion come off as a bit silly not really my cup of tea but the Hobgoblins hit my sweet spot
Aj picket did a great video on them have you seen it ??? It is so awesome and the lore I watch it and read about hobgoblins the more I love them
@@TheSinisterheroes Aj picket video on Hobgoblins was what got me into this race
@@pugking4518 YES!!!!!!
Of course, anyone should play however they please. But when I do Lawful Evil, I enjoy being a bit flexible with what constitutes as lawful or evil. Is trying to enforce your rule, no matter the cost, in a world gone mad - truly and absolutely essentially evil? Is opposing existing structures always inherently chaotic? Say you're part of some rebel faction within a kingdom in the middle of a civil war.
Perhaps you fight with the rebels, who in typical settings are almost always the good guys, and at least compared to the existing structures, chaotic. But the reason your character is fighting alongside them is because you perceive the existing structures as being too weak to hold the fabric of society together. That for whatever reason, they have failed, and a new order must be established.
However, from within the rebels, who say wishes to establish some sort of democratic society, you on the other hand attempt to form your own faction which strives to form some type of military dictatorship. Let's even go as far as to say you're successful in your ambitions. You have done something that typically would be associated with lawful evil, through chaotic and potentially good deeds. You have restored order to the realm. Your path to power has been marked with ruthlessness and brutality. Yet the result of your deeds has ultimately accomplished some good ends. Some might even argue that in the grand scheme of things, you are "the greater good."
And as many might know, many of those who strive towards the greater good, are often themselves capable of heinous deeds. To me, a well rounded Lawful Evil character has nuances, and they may not even be inherently evil *in essence* at all. This distinguishes itself from Lawful Neutral, in that the character still ultimately does not shy away from actively being brutal, or committing truly heinous crimes, again - so long as it accomplishes some perceived greater end.
Good archetypes for this include anti-villains.
That is a great assessment of how to incorporate malleability into your character. Your right to be flexible. It helps to draw people into your character. One of the things that’s important is to note you don’t always have to be evil every second of every day.
A lot of what the alignment states is that evil have this inherent brutality and disregard for life. That dosent mean you have to be insanely brutal and murderous while your buying food and reading a book. The meaning behind your actions don’t have to be evil . You touched on that point very very well.
Bigger scope of what you want to do when playing evil characters I believe is very important. In what you said trying to over through a failing system can be seen as chaotic and even good. But the fundamental of wanting to replace it with your rule is what makes it lawful evil. Sprinkle in a few laws to force others to live by and your golden.
You have a very great way of presenting an idea. Very well thought out id love to hear your opinions about chaotic and neutral alignments wether they be evil or neutral.
@@TheSinisterheroes It has a lot to do with consistency of character in my opinion. And more specifically, the consistency of *your* character. Does this align with your character's personality? That is not to say characters could act inconsistently in the right situation. For instance if a lawful good character is placed in a situation where doing the right thing is mutually exclusive with saving someone they love. Put on the spot, they might do something that is inconsistent with their ethos, but these situations would be highly specific.
But furthermore, I think of the alignment chart as a guideline, rather than a strict rule. Lawfulness may not necessarily mean blind adherence to the rules, just as chaotic might not necessarily mean wild abandon towards the rules - if it makes little sense for them to break them. A chaotic character may not necessarily go out of their way to break the rules just because they can. To me, it's simply that the rules aren't as binding on their conscience. Of course, they might if it fits their personality, and almost certainly will if they're chaotic evil.
So take the example of a chaotic neutral mercenary of sorts. They do not necessarily particularly care about the rules, and might not be afraid of breaking them either. That being said, if it is advantageous for them to work within a set of rules, for instance rules for a mercenary guild, they may very well adhere to them. It's not that they can't operate by rules, it's rather that they can be incredibly picky about what rules apply, and which do not. In this sense, the chaotic neutral has a lot in common with the lawful evil.
Chaotic evil is a complicated subject. Like all the others, how it will play out depends a lot on the character in question. See, I do not think of the alignment chart as something that influences the character's behavior. I think of it inversely. That that the character influences the alignment chart's relevance to them. So in the case of a more or less mindless form of evil, a force of nature that is, they're not necessarily even inherently evil. They simply exist as a force of entropy in the world, that cares very little for the world's relationship to it. It's only evil in the sense that other beings would perceive it as evil.
Is the wolf evil for pursuing your farm animals? Not really, it simply does as nature does. The farmer perceives it as an evil threat, because it represents an immediate danger to the farmer. The same could apply to an eldritch horror. If the chaotic evil character is guided by some form of intelligence or sapience on the other hand, then they are driven by some form of motivation. Whether or not there is a particular reason behind the motivation depends. They might be more like the Joker from Batman. While he does derive pleasure from causing suffering and despair, he doesn't do things for the sake of evil. He does things to challenge society in general. To prove that everything in the world is a farce, and that order is a meaningless facade. That deep inside, there's a little Joker in all of us. This shows especially whenever he tries to challenge the Batman into breaking his own rules.
To me, Chaotic Evil is often less of an inherent evil, and more like a Chaotic Chaotic. The utmost edge of Chaos you could possibly adhere to. Of course, this will also greatly depend on the setting of the campaign. Usually in D&D settings there will be objective forces of good and evil as determined by the rules of that world. But personally I've always found that to be too restrictive for character building.
To summarize, what being lawful, chaotic, good, neutral or evil means, is not necessarily fixed. Their meaning changes and shifts depending on the personality of your character. I once played a Lawful Evil character in a group of adventurers consisting exclusively of good and neutral characters. Among those characters, my Lawful Evil character adhered much more to principles and ideals of justice, than most of the Neutral characters. So much so, that it pretty much cleared my character of suspicion from the good characters. They thought of me as rough around the edges, but ultimately good.
They didn't see the betrayal coming.
The idea of alignment I really enjoy because I find putting rules and things to help dictate behavior really beneficial in creating a character. When it comes to player characters you need malleability in there personas for growth reasons and for following the story. So alignment should follow that malleability. It is such a wonder to me that People misuse evil alignment and limit them selves so much.
Doesnt need to be but i think Lawful Evil care desperately about their public image, they dont wanna be known for drunkenness and a brothel visiter (chaotic evil wouldn’t care if they were known to be this or not) although they might own a tavern or brothel or own the people that run them. And just a fun little bit at the end here. I played a lawful evil wizard before and its sad that he was the voice of reason in the party lol
That makes a lot of sense. This image of a tyrant has certain caveats to it. You never see Darth Vader having a drink, partying. Or even eating. That sets up this great imagery that he never unwinds that he is always laser focused. That finds its self really well to how a lawful evil character wants everyone to see them.
I am so glad your wizard was the voice of reason. First of your a wizard you should be smart. Secondly your not looking to cause your self more trouble than necessary. The laws are integral to the lawful chargers. Finding the ways to use it for your own gains. Well played Jacob
@@TheSinisterheroes thank you the lawful alignments are my favorite ones
I'm making a build for a lawful evil character, but I want to make sure I'm using lawful evil correctly before I get too far into the build. For now, I'm calling her Lilith. Lilith's goal is, to put it simply, power. She wants to become the next 'big bad', and she must destroy the current big bad in order to do so. To make things easier for herself, Lilith joins a band of heroes and helps them along. By getting rid of big bad, she will clear up space while also becoming higher in society. People will see her as a hero and a leader. To her, this is the only correct route to power, and any other way is sloppy, ineffective, and overall inferior. Lilith sees almost all other evildoers this way. Petty criminals are mere pests, and only lesser villains resort to crude violence. Keep in mind, she is not without morals. She doesn't find joy in killing. She feels compassion, and she can empathize with others. She may even grow attached to the party over time, but ultimately, they are only a means to an end. Does this fit the lawful evil alignment?
Just realized I made a text wall. Sorry about that.
Don’t worry about it lol it happens all the time. Sorry for the late response but I must of been asleep when you posted it, then I had to run to work.
The thing that makes it a little difficult to pin down is how Lilith sees violence and murder. As she dosent enjoy it, and feels compassion and can grow to care for others. If the circumstances develop it can lead her to becoming a good person morally. If that happens through story cool it happens.
Just if your idea is to be lawful evil, you may want to embrace a heavier hand. Maybe you can use your detest for murder as something that bothers you only when others commit it. Keeping it for yourself to use as punishment.
Thanks for the feedback! I'll keep that in mind when continuing this build. And no worries about a late response, I'm not in any kind of rush. Again, thank you. Have a nice day!
Any time happy to help!
Hmmm, ok, seems I played my character in Pathfinder: Kingmaker, wrong.
I played my character evil but always in a righteoues way.
That means, I didn't have punish someone who suffered from the old regent selfish laws but went full on death sentences when someone tried to steal resources, seems too shady or tried to fool me.
You could say the motto was:
"Be loyal and follow my orders and you will have nothing to fear. But if you try to trick me, betray me, my realm and people, you will suffer and die!".
That was my way to play a lawful evil.
I played pragmatic, avoid unnecessary kills as long as they didn't seem to be a threat and tried to have always healthy towns where the economic booms, the military is strong and life standarts are perfect in all aspects.
Everyone else doesn't matter as long as they aren't useful.
The only people that counts are my denizens, my realm and my companions.
Foreign people have to be useful to deserve my help.
This was my way to play lawful evil.
Act pragmatic, strategic and righteoues on the one side but punish hard and kill everyone who is or could be a threat for you.
I think you did everything right. Don’t get me wrong it is our opinions the context of these videos.
To be lawful evil yes there is this heavy handed extreme of disregard for the living condition. I believe based on what you wrote that yes your character was lawful evil. You might not be as evil as some other lawful evil characters in existence, but you definitely make the grace.
The thing is, if your character was much worse, much much worse, would you of enjoyed them?
Consider what you have written being a sadist with your punishment would of gone against the pragmatic thought process. Your character would have to be rather different.
I think you made your character perfect, I say this because I can see the pride in between the lettering. That’s the most important thing. You definitely enjoyed that character. That character was lawful evil to the extent you were comfortable with. Maybe I play a tad tooo dark for others, what I might be comfortable with may pass that line for others.
We are just a helpful hint into what we enjoy and think is right. Trust that we often need to be pulled back, for the mutual respect of our fellow players from time to time, maybe for our own well being as well.
You took the time to justify your actions for the good of all those you felt were your responsibility. Holding back your hand in part shows that. Though it was not what you may have wanted it was what was best for your group. You had the strength to be cruel. The forethought to value what outsiders had before deciding if they should live. That’s good leadership.
@@TheSinisterheroes
Thanks for the fast answer.
Personally, I'm not such a fan of villains who are so simple evil written.
For example, I am not a fan of these simple, generic villains who just treat people awful because they (the villains) are awful.
And chaotic evil characters are annoying because in my imagination they would just set everyone and everything in fire.
I am a fan of villains who have more of a Roman-Empire mindset.
You are evil but not in a such overdone cruel torture way but more in a calm, rational, logical and manipulative way.
This is my picture of a perfect villain.
On the surface you appear righteous and good, but in reality you are very manipulative and just help people because they could become useful to you.
That’s great because you could always add layers to them. In fact a lot of our current heroes are written with a similar mentality. The way you considered that kind of evil is very applicable in a lot of ways as player characters as well.
I agree chaotic evil is challenging. Though if done well it can be fun for the party in a lot of ways.
I'm doing a LE character that is basically a Karen more than anything else. Making others suffer, asking goblins to speak to their boss (fun thing, get them to do it, throw in a fireball and close the door.) Basically be nasty but not an asshole, I've called it in the past Lawful Bitch, be mean to everyone, use your influence but never step out of line.
Oh man lol. Just be careful, in consideration to your party, it is great to be a karen to the enemies. It sounds like a blast especially if you play it out with some humor.
BTW.
Not on-topic, but you mentioned you love Dune. Have you ever thought of using the D&D system to do a Dune Campaign? I read the original 6 books about 5 times each, was kinda "Meh" about the prequels, and WA seriously chapped with the two sequels.
Three books worth of build-up for what?
Bubkus!
If you decide to do so, let me know. I can give you some help. A friend used the Storyteller system to do a short Dune campaign.
Awesome!!! Yeah I’ll definitely reach out if the circumstances arise. Thanks!!!
best pc alignment
I have a lot of fun playing lawful evil. I think it’s the best evil alignment to start off as.