another great video to get this hi handicapper thinking about the push,pull,throw,whip,etc.for me the whip is more intuitive as we have all done this as kids, but control of the swing path and club face to hit the ball square and straight flight is still elusive on a consistent basis.and I assume this is only for full swing, when doing short shots around green accuracy trumps all the above.maybe though I need to change my thinking on this? thanks John
Stuart, you've done a huge amount of science research to get the hard facts and evidence as to the 'what' 'why' and most importantly the 'how' factors and so well done you for your huge investment in time and thought. A couple of observations that maybe you won't agree with - most probably in my point 1: Henry Cotton was a great advocate for the use of the hands and in videos showing his action we can very clearly see how his right hand rolls over his left hand and with the handle of the club at impact going backwards. And this is what I saw in videos of your swing. Would you care to comment in the context that you say to the effect to not conciously use hands? Point 2. You don't specifically use the term Parametric Acceleration but again this is what I see in your swing where the club handle is PULLED UPWARDS (by the straightening of your left leg) and which increases i.e. accelerates the club head as the hands appear to slow down. This is also similar to Ben Hogan who seemed to very much keep his weigth on his left side even durin ghis backswing. Thanks.
Hi Will, the right hand does roll over the left when you look at most swings, but the questions is, is it intentional? there is so much force going on in the golf swing and when the joints are aligned correctly such as elbow and wrist joints which a lot of amateur golfers struggle with (e.g chicken wing or scoup) the breaking or slowing down of the body, hands and arms which propels and releases the club at speed would cause all the hinge joints to fold correctly. Such as the rolling of the wrists you mention. If you swing a club at chest height going back right elbow to the ground and going through left elbow to the ground, you will see the same thing happen with the wrists. If you stopped suddenly at impact and your wrists were free of tension, the momentum from the club would roll the wrists. Here is a good video about the wrist and elbow joints and how to train them into the correct position, then ultimately they become passive in the swing ruclips.net/video/UyyfApveA5E/видео.htmlsi=SpxXizEkKN8VxJ51 As for Parametric Acceleration, I talk more about Centripetal Force here is a good video to explain it ruclips.net/video/ARKRuSwT3Qg/видео.htmlsi=RlqElYFq21I3DI4T hope that helps :-)
@@gforcegolf Hi Stuart, thanks for your response and the video links that I’ve viewed. In this below video link, from around 1 minute and 36 seconds, Peter Allis who has as a model Tommy Horton - very much a ‘hands’ player in the mould of Henry Cotton - explains “Time delay in the nerve responses reaching the brain…..” So, it’s very much a matter of perception as to what is happening when swinging a club. For example, we can think of only one thing at a time and when I am focussed on feeling what my hands are doing (I’m not giving my hands instruction’ and only ‘observing’ by the sensation) I feel the righ hand folding over the left…as in your video. And then in another swing when thinking about squatting on backswing/downswing that’s what I feel - with no thought about the hands which I assume perform naturally i.e. the right folds over the left. In other words, although Cotton and Horton (and me) think clubhead speed is mainly from deliberate hand action it seems as though squatting i.e. lowering COG and then swiftly raising COG on downswing - which is the parametric acceleration - causes the clubhead to increase speed. If this is correct it raises the question: HOW best to create a swift COG upwards motion to cause the club handle to go < whilst the clubhead goes > fast? ruclips.net/video/paJvUaLcL-E/видео.html
Interesting video and in line with more instructors acknowledging that the hands have a part to play in the swing and are active from the start of downswing. You and others see this as a “ pull”;however others who have been advocating hand action for some time see this as a throw or even a push of the clubhead to start the downswing. One of your influences Chuck Quinton who was 100% pull theory has now in his new goat series gone over to the “ dark side “ and is stating that the greatest of all time (goat) like Nicklaus and woods had a throw from the top. Interested to hear your views. Thanks.
when you look at the physics it would be a pull in transition, 1 - you need to stop the momentum of the club going back and pull it to change the direction of the momentum into the downswing here is a good video on this ruclips.net/video/-ykQsdsEdnA/видео.htmlsi=-wyqQ2ds9rQoeVD8 and 2 - to power the golf swing we use Centripetal Force (force acting away from the center of rotation - Clubhead) and Centrifugal Force (force acting towards the center of rotation - Body, we need to pull to engage these 2 forces. Here is a detailed video explaining this ruclips.net/video/Uqz72ibsZvE/видео.htmlsi=VIK67djhtcLexIFl I guess another simple analogy is pushing a loaded trolley in a DIY store, if you try and push it around the store you lose control of its direction v's if you pull it you then have control of the direction of the trolley, golf swing uses the same physics. Also think of the shaft as a piece of string or use the GForce Swing Trainer, or twirl a ball around on a piece of string, you cant push a string, you have to pull it. Here is a good video ruclips.net/video/o77-QvIL-Q8/видео.htmlsi=uF2T0gS9qxl5rPaL Hope that helps, let me know you thoughts :-)
@@gforcegolf Thanks for your reply. The push pull argument is exactly that made by Chuck Quinton and he based all his teachings on it with a very successful website. In the last few weeks he’s is now saying it’s a throw is that starts the downswing. Some of the players he says do this are Nicklaus and Woods. This is the bit I find interesting. In the physics argument there are those who state there is no centrifugal force in the golf swing. ( it’s a fictitious force) and the feel they are describing is inertia. Who would have thought hitting a ball with a stick would be so complicated. I commend you as being one of few teachers who mentions the significance of centripetal force in the golf swing , it is a real force , and is present. Keep up the videos always stir my interest.ruclips.net/video/yAfg_8OLjvs/видео.htmlsi=rFGwGyJuXnyHO8zG
@@Ulster2 thanks for the video link, yes totally aware it is a fictitious force, the pulling (Centripetal Force) keeps the clubhead swinging around us in a circular motion, the video you showed the ball does not have anything holding it so it wants to fly off in a straight line, hammer throw is another good example of the Centripetal Force we could all use in the golf swing.
@@Ulster2 The club naturally wants to release from the start of the downswing if you don't apply the "Pull" from the hands, I did an experiment on what happens in this link which is interesting, you have to keep pulling to prevent the club from releasing / flipping to early ruclips.net/video/VVQRPA297ds/видео.htmlsi=St7yQGGMCtOaEB8N
another great video to get this hi handicapper thinking about the push,pull,throw,whip,etc.for me the whip is more intuitive as we have all done this as kids, but control of the swing path and club face to hit the ball square and straight flight is still elusive on a consistent basis.and I assume this is only for full swing, when doing short shots around green accuracy trumps all the above.maybe though I need to change my thinking on this?
thanks John
Stuart, you've done a huge amount of science research to get the hard facts and evidence as to the 'what' 'why' and most importantly the 'how' factors and so well done you for your huge investment in time and thought. A couple of observations that maybe you won't agree with - most probably in my point 1: Henry Cotton was a great advocate for the use of the hands and in videos showing his action we can very clearly see how his right hand rolls over his left hand and with the handle of the club at impact going backwards. And this is what I saw in videos of your swing. Would you care to comment in the context that you say to the effect to not conciously use hands? Point 2. You don't specifically use the term Parametric Acceleration but again this is what I see in your swing where the club handle is PULLED UPWARDS (by the straightening of your left leg) and which increases i.e. accelerates the club head as the hands appear to slow down. This is also similar to Ben Hogan who seemed to very much keep his weigth on his left side even durin ghis backswing. Thanks.
Hi Will, the right hand does roll over the left when you look at most swings, but the questions is, is it intentional? there is so much force going on in the golf swing and when the joints are aligned correctly such as elbow and wrist joints which a lot of amateur golfers struggle with (e.g chicken wing or scoup) the breaking or slowing down of the body, hands and arms which propels and releases the club at speed would cause all the hinge joints to fold correctly. Such as the rolling of the wrists you mention.
If you swing a club at chest height going back right elbow to the ground and going through left elbow to the ground, you will see the same thing happen with the wrists. If you stopped suddenly at impact and your wrists were free of tension, the momentum from the club would roll the wrists. Here is a good video about the wrist and elbow joints and how to train them into the correct position, then ultimately they become passive in the swing ruclips.net/video/UyyfApveA5E/видео.htmlsi=SpxXizEkKN8VxJ51
As for Parametric Acceleration, I talk more about Centripetal Force here is a good video to explain it ruclips.net/video/ARKRuSwT3Qg/видео.htmlsi=RlqElYFq21I3DI4T hope that helps :-)
@@gforcegolf Hi Stuart, thanks for your response and the video links that I’ve viewed.
In this below video link, from around 1 minute and 36 seconds, Peter Allis who has as a model Tommy Horton - very much a ‘hands’ player in the mould of Henry Cotton - explains “Time delay in the nerve responses reaching the brain…..” So, it’s very much a matter of perception as to what is happening when swinging a club. For example, we can think of only one thing at a time and when I am focussed on feeling what my hands are doing (I’m not giving my hands instruction’ and only ‘observing’ by the sensation) I feel the righ hand folding over the left…as in your video. And then in another swing when thinking about squatting on backswing/downswing that’s what I feel - with no thought about the hands which I assume perform naturally i.e. the right folds over the left.
In other words, although Cotton and Horton (and me) think clubhead speed is mainly from deliberate hand action it seems as though squatting i.e. lowering COG and then swiftly raising COG on downswing - which is the parametric acceleration - causes the clubhead to increase speed.
If this is correct it raises the question: HOW best to create a swift COG upwards motion to cause the club handle to go < whilst the clubhead goes > fast?
ruclips.net/video/paJvUaLcL-E/видео.html
Interesting video and in line with more instructors acknowledging that the hands have a part to play in the swing and are active from the start of downswing. You and others see this as a “ pull”;however others who have been advocating hand action for some time see this as a throw or even a push of the clubhead to start the downswing.
One of your influences Chuck Quinton who was 100% pull theory has now in his new goat series gone over to the “ dark side “ and is stating that the greatest of all time (goat) like Nicklaus and woods had a throw from the top.
Interested to hear your views. Thanks.
when you look at the physics it would be a pull in transition, 1 - you need to stop the momentum of the club going back and pull it to change the direction of the momentum into the downswing here is a good video on this ruclips.net/video/-ykQsdsEdnA/видео.htmlsi=-wyqQ2ds9rQoeVD8
and 2 - to power the golf swing we use Centripetal Force (force acting away from the center of rotation - Clubhead) and Centrifugal Force (force acting towards the center of rotation - Body, we need to pull to engage these 2 forces. Here is a detailed video explaining this ruclips.net/video/Uqz72ibsZvE/видео.htmlsi=VIK67djhtcLexIFl
I guess another simple analogy is pushing a loaded trolley in a DIY store, if you try and push it around the store you lose control of its direction v's if you pull it you then have control of the direction of the trolley, golf swing uses the same physics.
Also think of the shaft as a piece of string or use the GForce Swing Trainer, or twirl a ball around on a piece of string, you cant push a string, you have to pull it. Here is a good video ruclips.net/video/o77-QvIL-Q8/видео.htmlsi=uF2T0gS9qxl5rPaL
Hope that helps, let me know you thoughts :-)
@@gforcegolf Thanks for your reply. The push pull argument is exactly that made by Chuck Quinton and he based all his teachings on it with a very successful website. In the last few weeks he’s is now saying it’s a throw is that starts the downswing. Some of the players he says do this are Nicklaus and Woods. This is the bit I find interesting.
In the physics argument there are those who state there is no centrifugal force in the golf swing. ( it’s a fictitious force) and the feel they are describing is inertia.
Who would have thought hitting a ball with a stick would be so complicated. I commend you as being one of few teachers who mentions the significance of centripetal force in the golf swing , it is a real force , and is present. Keep up the videos always stir my interest.ruclips.net/video/yAfg_8OLjvs/видео.htmlsi=rFGwGyJuXnyHO8zG
@@Ulster2 thanks for the video link, yes totally aware it is a fictitious force, the pulling (Centripetal Force) keeps the clubhead swinging around us in a circular motion, the video you showed the ball does not have anything holding it so it wants to fly off in a straight line, hammer throw is another good example of the Centripetal Force we could all use in the golf swing.
@@Ulster2 The club naturally wants to release from the start of the downswing if you don't apply the "Pull" from the hands, I did an experiment on what happens in this link which is interesting, you have to keep pulling to prevent the club from releasing / flipping to early ruclips.net/video/VVQRPA297ds/видео.htmlsi=St7yQGGMCtOaEB8N
@@gforcegolf That in my opinion is one of your best videos. When I first saw it definitely put me in the pull camp.
I love these videos where some brit sclub tells us all what is the most important thing about a golf swing by babbling for 5 minutes.