Tier Ranking 1st Level Spells in D&D 5e - Part 4
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
- MONSTERS OF DRAKKENHEIM is 300+ pages of eldritch horror inspired monsters for 5e by the Dungeon Dudes! Coming to Kickstarter March 26th, 2024: www.kickstarter.com/projects/... We rank another group of 1st level D&D 5e spells! This video is SPONSORED by Almanac of Allies. Back their Kickstarter here: www.kickstarter.com/projects/...
TIME STAMPS
00:00 - Promo
01:05 - Intro
01:52 - Ice Knife
03:54 - Identify
07:32 - Illusory Script
12:59 - Inflict Wounds
16:04 - Jump
18:47 - Longstrider
21:11 - Mage Armor
26:40 - Magic Missle
30:42 - Protection from Evil and Good
34:21 - Purify Food and Drink
36:39 - Ray of Sickness
39:20 - Sanctuary
45:44 - Searing Smite
49:43 - Shield
56:13 - Shield of Faith
01:01:00 - Final Thoughts
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The shield and mage armor discussion is the archetypal sorcerer vs wizard mindset 😂
My big discussion: why isn't Mage Armor a ritual spell?
I ask myself the same question every time I cast that spell
Yeah as a Wizard, it's no problem taking both I think. You start with 6 spells and gain 2 a level, so you won't have any problem picking both up in your first 8 spells and though you won't be using both at level 2 (maybe not either), you'll have them for later. As a sorcerer you only have 8 spells once you hit level 7, and do you want to waste spells known on 1st level spell slots, when you could be taking 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th level spells?
Still if you're going to take only one, I'd take Mage Armor. Maybe you can take Silvery Barbs as well instead of Shield because it has more utility than Shield and having that on a sorcerer is really valuable. You can basically double Heighten a spell.
@@Setzertotally agree. With every wizard I play, I always end up with Mage Armor, Shield, and Identify at 1st level. As a sorcerer, I’d rather just play a Draconic sorcerer and have a permanent Mage Armor
@@AvangionQ Agreed. Mage Armor really needs ritual casting to be worth it.
Ice knife - one of the few spells with no V component - which means silence spells can't prevent it.
very good point! and its material component can be spit!
"I spit at thee"! Muahahaha!
It's also a nice easy source of magical piercing damage!
@@Juniper_Rose Druids with Thorn whip, Ice Knife and Piercer feat, sounds cool!
but it don't scale that well! the piercing damage don't scale! and that would be a good thing for a fight against a Rakshasa!
As a DM I would allow it to be twin cast
I’m with Kelly on Mage Armor. There are too many ways to get that permanent AC boost like taking a single level of Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer that negates the need. The only time I have used it is actually on unarmored NPCs that we had to get out of a dangerous situation.
I think that Shield's appeal might be partly psychological- the player gets to *decide* to NOPE an incoming attack which just feels really satisfying.
It is not just an attack - its a whole round of attacks from multiple attackers. The additional AC really pays dividends. Additionally, Level 1 Spells Slots quickly become obsolete unless using Shield/Absorb Elements, so there isn't really a good reason to *not* use Shield.
That's a big part of it. If every time you got attacked you yelled Mage armor and your DM told you when it worked then you'd probably feel better about having used it. But most DM's aren't even going to tell you by how much you beat the attack so you don't know if mage armor works, but you'll almost always know shield works.
@@andscifi I think I agree that Mage Armor falls off later game though, because a lot of casters plan around obsoleting it, by finding or making bracers of armor or elven chain mail, or taking lightly or moderately armored, or using teleport spells to get out of situations where you would be attacked round after round. Part of the continuing attraction of shield is that it stacks with regular armor.
@@grantstratton2239 You are entirely right. If you're level 18 and still using mage armor you've probably done something wrong.
I'm speaking primarily about the psychological differences between the two. Shield is better in a lot of cases including almost anytime you get higher level where there are a lot of ways to get that much armor.
Basically what I'm saying is just that Shield is also more fun to use, and as it it a game that is important.
The psychological element isn't necessarily a lie though. If played well, a mage is likely to not be hit at all, or maybe just once and it's over/under the specific 3AC range mage armor provides more often than not.
Meaning shield, the spell you only need to cast when actually needed, and is able to cover more options, is better on average.
People develop gut instincts for a reason.
The mage armor vs sheild debate never dies throughout the video. I love it!!
warlock invocation for mage armor and pick up shield
That debate was awesome XD
I ran a wizard from 3-11 and never learned or even wanted to cast Shield. Absorb Elements, yes, but cast mage armor every day and never cast shield.
Those debates are why I love watching these guys.
@@solar4planeta923I use shield all the time as a reaction in big fights, it’s so dope
My fighter got completely surrounded by a ratling ambush. The Druid yelled “shield up!” and threw an Ice Knife targeting my fighter. The attack missed (AC 17 I think at lvl 3) and the fighter made their saving throw, the ratlings largely did not. It was an awesome moment in the game and a very clever use of the spell.
That's really cool!
Kelly just wants to reenact the princess bride with purify food and drink.
Inconceivable
@@LinusCello75 You keep saying that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
Which can be done by simply being a yuan ti pureblood.
@@fenixmeaney6170 Yeah but it depends on if the dm allows you to play that or not as they could see being immune to that condition braking and make you play the new version.
Consider: Cult leader uses illusory script to both tell his minions the plan and lure the party into a trap.
There are many great ways for a DM to use it, but like the dudes said at the end yourplayers will most likely never know that you used it like that, and you are the DM so you can just have the baddies know the plan.
if that’s the coolest thing you can do with it, why is it in the *player’s* handbook
I use it this way, but I clue the players in that there is something up by having the message disappear from the first note they find (written by the BBEG to the leader of the group they just fought) as the ten days have conveniently just expired shortly after they read it (thus preventing them from discovering the real message).
The second note they acquire will be at the ambush site the first note led them to, but has more time left on it. What the players see on the second note initially will lead them to another trap, and there might be several layers of this, but from the second note onward, the players will have been presented with clues as to the true nature of the note and a means to see the hidden message.
I'll let them keep walking into the traps until they figure it out, but I'll give them more obvious hints after each new note is acquired and eventually just flat out tell them if they are too dense to pick up on the clues.
"S-tier for DMs."
Yep.
I've only ever used illusory script spell once as a DM as security for a secretive BBEG. The real message: go kidnap a named important NPC in order to complete the ritual.
The illusory message: go kidnap a named NPC in order to complete the ritual. [Subtext, not written: the illusory script indicated a family member of that important NPC.]
When all the players failed their investigation checks, set the DC a couple points too high, they went and safeguarded the wrong NPC and kickstarted the next adventure.
I think Jump is one of those spells that is gonna catch a lot of folks from Baldur's Gate 3 where jumping is SUPER useful...but not in 5e where the jumping rules aren't great.
yah jump spell in BG4 might as well be mistystep every turn.
I don't think I've ever even jumped normally in D&D.
@jothrax4673 As a DM I've had some orcs jump to avoid a lot of damage from spike growth. They were still just regular orcs though so most of them still died. 😅
@@williammitchell6254Yo you're from future?
i wanna note specifically that sanctuary is a bonus action cast with no concentration so you can throw the spell out as you would use a shield spell, yes its more likely to be wasted but it is still very effective and if it blocks one or two hits then it still did its job and the player can just attack and end the spell when its their turn. its also useful in making sure a player who was just downed can get to their turn without getting attacked. so basically I'm with Monty on this being an A/B tier spell
Agreed. Also, it can block Save-based spells, which Shield can not.
It can also empower a bard/cleric to stand in melee next to a rogue to give sneak attack. I know they hated on Bane vs Bless, but a Bane+Sanctuary is really tough to hit. You can also cast your Spirit Guardians, then cantrip+Sanctuary on the next turn and walk right into melee. The spell only ends if you cast a spell that affects an enemy. It doesn’t say anything about ongoing concentration spells.
The bad thing though about this being defensive is that it doesn’t actually “defeat” any attacks. The enemy can’t target you, but they still can target one of your allies. I think Sanctuary is a solid B+ solely because of other spell choices available.
Sanctuary is perfect to throw on the rogue/ranger when the need to go and scout into dangerous territory, or even just to get someone from A to B safely with the macguffin. In our game of LMoP, the redcloaks decided they wanted to stage a shootout for us when we started poking our noses into things, and being able to slap sanctuary on the rogue so he could run up and down the road to the manor and back made a big difference.
Kelly's plan with Purify Food and Drink is beautiful. They should write a movie where that happens, I'm sure it'd be a classic.
Inconceivable!
Mage Armor is great when you got it from the Eldrich Invocation "Armor of Shadows". Free casting, and when done an Abjuration Wizards it activates/heals their Arcane Ward.
yeah only 2 cases where it is better than shield
@@MsKeylas not sure it's a strict comparison. I think Mage Armor has its place (when you need an AC calculation), and any AC calc you're adding makes shield better.
I think the point got missed since they debated those spells here, but, you should often take both if you're not able to get an AC calculation from any other source. If you're the eldritch knight, MA is obviously not for you.
Shield is ALWAYS the OP thing that makes your AC climb to the stratosphere, but it can't do that if your base AC is 12. There are too many ways to get 17, 18, 19 on a die roll, but getting 19, 20, 21, 22 is a lot harder of a climb for basically the whole game.
@@michaelboggs438 The thing is, you almost always have better sources for AC. The only case where Mage Armor has any value is if your campaign only uses material from the PH, with no feats allowed, no multiclassing, no other races, and no other subclasses.
Magic missile is clearly an S tier. It's perfect for attacking the darkness!
A man of culture, I see.
Sanctuary - good bonus action spell to protect an ally on a turn-by-turn basis. Especially a surrounded frontliner. If you get extra turns out of it, that's a bonus. It's also useful to help save an ally while running away
Yep, it an also be good if a caster that's concentrating on an important spell routinely gets focus-fired upon by enemies trying to break their concentration.
Illusory Script in combination with Forgery Kit proficiency and an Illusionist Wizard can turn an ordinary piece of paper into The Doctor's 'Psychic Paper'.
At 6th level, an Illusionist can change any illusion with a simple Action. That would enable you to conjure a writ, or a bank note, or a release paper for a prisoner in 6 seconds.
Just don't try to pass yourself off as a Responsible Adult.
Our team was part of a mercenary group, and we had a communication crystal that worked like sending stones. That is a lot better than having illusionary script.
You don't eeven need a frogery kit. The spell specifies it looks like it was written by someone else's hand. If you know there writing you can just make it. Illsuionist just means you need an action and not a longer time. This is the ultimate forgery spell.
@@Juniper_RoseFinally, a lie too big 😂
@@rcschmidt668Except sending stones only work one daily. Illusionary Script works for ten days.
Also, one does not always find the magic item they want, but a level up can always provide a needed spell.
Sanctuary was quite useful in keeping our Cleric alive while he kept us up against a giant
It's a must have for door dodging also.
You can also cast it on yourself while Spirit Guardians is up and you retain the full benefits.
@@feelingrizzly1515 How? It ends when you deal damage.
@@MajorCinnamonBuns Sanctuary only falls off when you actually CAST a spell that affects an enemy at the moment of casting the spell. You can still benefit from spells that harm enemies, you just can't cast them after Sanctuary is active. Spirit Guardians has a 10 minute duration, so you can easily precast it before combat and you're fine to cast Sanctuary during your first combat round if you want to. Then just charge on in and throw your 3d8. You can also reasonably cast Spirit Guardians during combat, as long as there are no enemies in your initial AOE at the moment of casting.
@@feelingrizzly1515 I guess it would be okay to get to close range if you're worried about ranged attacks but I don't see the point otherwise. Once you deal the 3d8 from spirit guardians sanctuary drops. "If the warded creature ... deals damage to another creature, this spell ends."
Shield on your FIGHTERS is clutch and _of course_ they are going to want that in their rings of Spell Storing. But I gotta agree with Monty on this... and this wizard never leaves home without their Mage Armor. 😉
If you don't find 12 better ways to increase base AC than "Mage Armor," you don't know how to play Wizard optimally. Mage Armor is merely the least effective way to do so.
While Sanctuary is annoyingly limiting, I was recently in that very position of being surrounded by enemies that were focus-firing on my lil' druid goblin. Sanctuary from the paladin made sure I wasn't brought down by the bigger enemies, allowing me to spend my actions on healing myself and setting myself up for attacking next turn.
In the final battle of the campaign, at level 20, I had a level 20 Alchemist Artificer and was able to simply cast Sanctuary on our wizard because of how initiative turned out. Sure, he caused it to drop on his turn by casting meteor swarm, but I was able to just recast Sanctuary again on my turn before the BBEG got his turn back. Super useful for protecting our ace in the hole.
Sanctuary is amazing for combats where the enemy is trying to do something
Had a friend playing a Peace domain cleric, buffing everybody in the party
the enemy were trying to complete a ritual on a raised platform
with sanctuary he was able to walk past all the cultist trying to kill him,
and wreck all of their ritual components.
I think the best use case for inflict wounds would be combining it with hold person to double the damage
It's also _the_ War Caster reaction spell.
I find Inflict Wounds to be a terrible choice most of the time, as a cleric can just bop a close range enemy with a melee weapon instead and save the spell slot for something more useful. That is not to say it is entirely useless, but generally speaking, only clerics that are limited to medium armor and simple weapons are going to be better off casting inflict wounds over just bonking an enemy with a weapon, and even they can get away with casting a cantrip instead of burning a spell slot for a little extra damage. By level 5, Toll the Dead is dealing almost the same damage as Inflict Wounds if the target is already injured (presumably by your Spirit Guardians, if nothing else), deals the same damage type, and doesn't cost a spell slot.
There are only two real uses for Inflict Wounds. One is when a creature is in the cleric's face, it needs to die NOW for tactical reasons and the cleric doesn't have any better spells they can use at that range prepared for whatever reason, which makes it incredibly niche, as more often than not, the cleric can just bonk the monster and let someone else finish it off instead of burning a high level spell slot to kill it themselves. The other is if the cleric has the War Caster feat and is built around using fear or similar effects to make monsters flee from them to trigger the reaction.
Hold person + inflict wounds...
I remember casting hold person on a humanoid enemy in a boss battle. Then I went up to him on my next turn and cast inflict wounds at fifth level...
Automatic crit. And we used the Chris Perkins rule of crits do full damage plus dice roll.
That was 7d10 + 70 damage....
Needless to say, the henchman character didn't last very long.
Player at my table has used it like 5 times and crit 3 times (whilst upcasting!) just by rolling. Mega damage numbers
@@WolfHredaI don’t see the value of choosing it over a cantrip for a reaction as it’s very similar to using it normally. Unlike with hold person active it’s a straight roll with a sizable chance to miss and waste the spell slot, the chance of getting a critical is minimal and you can’t upcast to anticipate a crit. Without that critical it just doesn’t have enough value for the slot considering the chance to miss nor does it have a debilitating effect to prevent them from running away.
THE warcaster spell is booming blade
Something I think should be taken into consideration is that certain classes can prepare spells everyday, so when they talk about a spell only being relevant if it is useful for your entire campaign isn't all that valid on those spells, like when they are talking about protection from evil and good. If your characters know what type of encounter to expect and are able to prepare for it, that could change how you rank some of these spells.
Also, not sure if they've addressed this either in their rules for ranking or old comments.
Great point. I had players heading into a powerful ghost's lair and they made sure everyone who could had the spell and they even recruited an NPC cleric to come and help with an extra casting. It ended up mattering a whole lot.
Very true, I think the ranking system holds up better for classes like sorc, bard, maybe wizard (since your spell book can be big but you do have to learn them). For someone like the Cleric/Druid - you get all your spells, and just have to pick what you prepare each day, so, some of the more niche spells seem more valuable since you're not missing out on other spells on your list, just what you can/can't cast for that day.
I'd rank Mage Armor as a B, as well, but primarily because it's not particularly difficult for the classes that get it to also get medium armor proficiency. Its primary use case seems to be for Wizards and Sorcerers who aren't multiclassing, or Abjuration Wizards that pick up the Eldritch Adept feat to cheese Armor of Shadows.
Ooooh I didn't think of the armor of shadows + abjuration wizard combo. Is it actually super cheesy though? You have to spend an action to cast mage armor, even if it does't cost a spell slot. Seems hard to justify in the middle of a combat (but certainly fantastic outside of combat).
@@dudebromanguy Why mid combat. Mage armor when you wake up, mage armor when you go to sleep, mage armor mid-day if you're strolling through the countryside and it wears off. Its basically a chain shirt without the disadvantage to stealth or a dex limit
Kelly’s plan to poison two glasses is “Inconceivable!!!”
😂
Sanctuary is great if you are concentrating on an important spell and trying to keep it up, like Hypnotic Pattern or Animate Objects. Your bonus action makes the animated creatures attack, but you’re not actually doing the damage yourself.
It doesn't matter what the concentration spell does (damage or otherwise) if sanctuary is cast after.
"If the warded creature makes an attack or casts a spell that affects an enemy creature, this spell ends."
That’s why you cast Animated Objects first, then sanctuary after to help you maintain it
Definitely agree with Kelly, Shield will ALWAYS be used as opposed to mage armor, it also justifies itself when used. You could cast mage armor and never fight anything and end up wasting a spell slot, while with shield you can always hold off until you DO get attacked.
I agree, I'm Team Shield too for several reasons.
1. At very low levels giving up a spell slot just terrible. I only get 2 spell slots at level 1 and 3 slots at level 2; I don't want to have to spend one of them to cast Mage Armor when I might not even be attacked (or might not even be hit with an attack which +3 AC would prevent). I might even have to use 2 spell slots if the adventuring day is super long/over 8 hours.
2. Even the "Armor of Shadows" warlock invocation is not worth it. Warlocks already get light armor proficiency, so "Mage Armor" is what... +1 AC vs Studded Leather? And that goes away if you find +1 magic armor or you can't cast for whatever reason (can't speak, can't use your hands, or don't have your focus). Is this really worth one of your precious invocations? Maybe if you can switch it out later I guess... If you are not a warlock, using the "Eldritch Adept" feat to get "Armor of Shadows" equally doesn't make sense because you could have instead gotten "Lightly Armored" instead and gotten +1 DEX (which might give you +1 AC and also improve its saving throw and related skills) and light armor proficiency, allowing you to wear said +1 magic armor later.
3. With the Tasha's Cauldron of Everything rule which says ability score increases can be assigned to wherever you want, you might as well play a race which gives you armor proficiency anyway. What other advantage is your race going to give you that is this worthwhile, except maybe flight? Heck, mountain dwarves get medium armor proficiency, which is generally an upgrade to "Mage Armor" unless your DEX is 16 or higher.
4. Even if you ignore everything above and don't get armor proficiency another way, when comparing Shield vs Mage Armor directly against each other it is still debatable which is a better use of that level 1 spell slot (i.e. which is better to take first). If you don't get hit with an attack roll at all during the next 8 hours, Shield is obviously better. If you are hit with an attack roll that +5 AC prevents but +3 AC doesn't, Shield is obviously better too. If you are hit with multiple attack rolls which occur during the same round, Shield is STILL better because it lasts until the start of your next turn. Oh, and Shield also protects you from Magic Missile, which Mage Armor does nothing against. The only time Mage Armor is giving you more benefit than Shield is when you are hit with multiple attack rolls where +3 AC would prevent that damage and those hits are spread across multiple rounds. As a wizard or sorcerer, how often do you take attack roll damage in a day? Remember that "attack roll" damage does not include damage from attacks/spells/abilities that use saving throws instead...
Sanctuary is amazing if you pay attention to the initiative order. The melee hitter charges in and attacks, but is now surrounded? If you go before the group of enemies (who tend to go on the same initiative), you can guard them for at least that one turn.
I have also used a character to block a door taking the dodge action while under sanctuary to great affect
I could also see keeping a very low HP character alive while they retreat. Or the scout with it, just in case.
Also good for infiltrators that need to escape after being discovered, as it not only helps keep you alive, but also helps prevent being knocked out or netted. Unfortunately, it does not protect against grapple attempts or traps.
not grapples?? Interesting. @@derekstein6193
Really enjoying this series. You get a S tier rating from me
Totally agree with Kelly on his mage armor ranking. I might take it later on, but the idea of taking it over shield is madness
+3 to ac against all attacks all day across 1-4 encounters or +5 against attacks for one round out of a day.
Also with Kelly on this. I recently played BG3 as a wizard in a party of 3, and my friends thought I was mad for not using (at first level) mage armour over shield. For me, it's shield all day long *and then* mage armour. Obviously mage armour is a must, but at first level the priority should be shield, not MA
The problem with mage armor is that there are so many ways for sorcerers and wizards to get a better option for armor without wasting spell slots. You have elven chain, multiclassing (literally any class but 2), lightly armored feat, or more than a half dozen races. Probably more I'm not thinking of.
@@Joker-yw9hlMA is still stupidly strong, and besides, BG3 is not really comparable to D&D because humans start with shield profiency so you can just use a shield on gal
Towards the end of my run gale had 27 AC
@@andrewdyjach7305 Spending a feat or an entire level on something you can get with a single spell slot is extremely wasteful. That's not a problem for mage armor, it's a strength of the spell. The fact that spending a spell slot of your lowest level once per day is even remotely equivalent in strength to taking a level dip in another class or spending an entire feat should be proof enough to players that mage armor is absurdly strong.
Agree with Monty, take both when you can. But, Mage Armour has the potential to avoid con checks and a 60% chance on not having to use your reaction to cast shield. If your ac boost protects you from hits you also have the potential of using slots for something else. Shield is amazing… get both
My goblin rogue once tricked a devil into signing away everything he owned to me with an Illusory script contract (which had no requirements for my goblin). My goblin was a shady businessman who would set up contracts with people and hide the fine print with illusory script, so I only took it for flavor. Never expected to use it on so grand a scale!
Don't some Devils have truesight or am I thinking of dragons?
@@Banquet42 most devils have devil's sight (can see through magical darkness). Some have true sight, but not all. True sight is super powerful so you gotta be a high-level boss to have it usually.
@@timpietz2279 thank you!
The devil was a fool for not producing the contract himself obviously though @@Banquet42
Brilliant
Fully subscribing to Monty's logic on the Mage Armor vs. Shield debate. If you don't have any kind of AC boost, Mage Armor statistically will save you more times in an adventuring day for less investment in spell slots.
Man it’d be so nice to have a DM that just tells you what the magic item is 😂 Here I was expecting Identify to be a “must have”
From the DMG (not sure what page, but it is in Ch7 under "identifying an magic item"
"The identify spell is the fastest way to reveal an item’s properties. Alternatively, a character can focus on one magic item during a short rest, while being in physical contact with the item. At the end of the rest, the character learns the item’s properties, as well as how to use them"
Identify may be the fastest (11 minutes), but by RAW you can do the same thing just by fondling the item for a hour.
The continued Mage Armor/Shield discussion is great, especially because you judge it on different parameters individually.
Mage Armor first. Arguably worth casting even at levels 1 and 2 just because the wizard is made of glass.
Best to pick Shield and Mage Armor simultaneously. The only time my caster is not choosing Mage Armor is if I'm proficient in regular armor.
When you think of sanctuary as being the same cost as shield or cure wounds it's a little better. Not as good as a reaction obviously, but if you block even one attack in between turns it's worth it. Around level 8 - 10 this is all the cleric at my table starting using her first level slots on and it really changed my mind on it lol.
I was once playing a Dhampir Undying Warlock. I snuck into a Wizard's Tower at the behest of another player (who was effectively my Patron, his blood and permissions fueled my power) while Invisible thanks to an Eldritch Invocation. I kept pace with him until he got decently into his tower, and then I decided it was time to execute the assassination plot, reached out with Inflict Wounds, and crit the Wizard, instantly killing them. We faded to black as my Dhampir 'cleaned up'. lol
Mage armor is a great spell to pick up with magic initiate. You get a free cast every day that lasts the whole day plus two cantrips. It's perfect.
Edit: I'm talking about using this feat as a primary spellcaster in order to get a free cast of mage armor without spending a spell slot, as well as filling out your cantrip repertoire a little more. Obviously if you have heavy armor proficiency you shouldn't do this.
If you aren't going for Magic Initiate Wizard for Find Familiar, Mage Armor is a good pick.
Or you could take Lightly Armoured and gain most of the benefit by wearing regular studded leather, plus the option to use a range of magical armours down the line.
IMO mage armor is less of a choise for a Sorcerer compared to a Wizard! and thats probly why Kelly said B! and I agree for Sorcerers! but not for Wizards!
the sorcerer is more limited than the wizard in spells known!
If you can't get Mage Armor normally then you almost definitely already have better armor proficiency
Mage armor only lasts 8 hours. If I want mage armor I'm picking it up through eldritch adept so I can cast it at will for free. Saying it's a set it in the morning and your good for the day is false. I need to use it right before a combat and hope we have all of our other combats in the next 8 hours. If I can't trade out spells I'm picking shield because that one I will need. I would thenikely pick up mage armor second
Thank you guys, Kelly and Monte, for introducing me into DnD, and for giving me years of incredible content.
I was supervising a small 3rd shift workshop that allowed us to listen to ear buds. I found you guys about 10 episodes into Dungeons of Drakkenheim. I fought up in a few days and have dwindled for a new episode every week since.
Love ya, dudes!
Friends at work are playing our first one shot. I’m helping a guy who’s DMed, but not since 5e. I’m helping come up with the campaign and making character sheets with the DM. (Our players opted to skip a session 0 and I presented about 12 builds for them to pick from. They made their choices so we will make their character sheets ahead of time and allow them to provide the couple.)
It will be the first time for all the players, myself included. Between you dudes and the other greats like Nerdarchy, Taking 20, XP to Lvl 3, How to Be a Great GM and others, I’m very prepared.
If all the new players decide to advance to a campaign, I am absolutely going to buy and play Drakkenheim!
As a sorlock with armor of shadow I can say that free mage armor is priceless
I see people not take this invocation way too often tbh. It's so strong.
I agree with Kelly. I always take Shield but I often struggle for when to take Mage Armor. If I'm building up a higher level character then sure I take it, but starting low I typically gravitate to other choices.
I made the mistake of taking Searing Smite on my Sorcadin, because like you said, fire damage on my attacks. I quickly realized that Green Flame Blade is way better, without taking a spell slot lol
I am team Mage Armor, there's a reason it's called the "Mage Tax". What also gives it an edge is that it lasts for 8 hours with no concentration, while Shield lasts only a single round and takes up a spell slot each time
And if folks do not want to pay the tax, they can always play a Lizard or Autognome, or even an old style Dragon Sorc.
Sanctuary was one of the few ways I could save Isobel in BG3. Even if she attacks every turn, casting Sanctuary is worth it in those situations when all enemies are super focused on taking only one character down.
Sadly not quite as strong in Tabletop 5e - it doesn't prevent attacking altogether. Enemies only have to succeed on a save to do so!
Love these spell tier lists. Keep them coming, dudes!
With sanctuary, you cast it on a character so in the next round there is less chance that enemies attack him, it is a initiative dependant one round buff, like a bonus action shield
Just a note for when you inevitably do Level 2 spells.... please keep the spell you're currently discussing in the corner of the screen. I've been listening to this while doing other stuff in a different tab, and I can't tell you how many I've clicked back because I heard something interesting, only to have to rewind and find the spot where you started talking about this particular spell. As always, love your work and watch everything you put out!!
Strongly Agree! 😁
One detail worth noting about Ice Knife is that (following an errata) it uses the phrasing "the target and each creature within 5 feet of it". The explosion doesn't just hit in a circle of 5ft radius at the point of impact, but in the 8 squares around the target's space, more if the target is larger. This makes Ice Knife a pretty good spell to use on a large target surrounded by minions, or heck, on a cold-resistant ally surrounded by foes.
My favorite part about Magic Missile's auto hit is it's great for non-combat purposes as well. Twice in a campaign I hit precise delicate targets at a distance (a rope and a bottle) with a magic missile item because the damage is irrelevant, but it was nearly an impossible shot.
Strictly speaking, RAW you cannot target inanimate objects with Magic Missile as it specifies that the target must be “a creature of your choice”.
That said, I’ve never run into a DM that is that strict with it.
@@davidtrindle9828 The creature/object line is often blurred, especially if the results are fun.
@@RichWoods23that’s why I specified RAW. While many DMs (including myself) would allow such a use, there are many others who would not.
Concerning the Illusory Script: it can be used by players to navigate different parties playing same campaign through specific circumstances or allow sharing information when they cannot use other ways to communicate like Sending (low level characters not having Sending in the arsenal, sending is blocked in the dungeon somehow, etc.) I allows to navigate through the dungeon or store specific details of how to pass particular traps or challenges. It can also be tided to the Glyph of Warding with specific triggers applied as a deception or way to provide misinformation or play double-agent - can be widely used by players in certain campaigns or parties. It provides possibilities for great shenanigans.
Team Mage Armour here. I will always choose +3 for eight hours over +5 for six seconds. For my very fragile wizard at least.
Also, if you don't want to 'waste' a slot at the start of the day, won't you also hesitate to use your last slot for anything but Shield?
As a Sorcerer (or anyone with the Metamagic Adept Feat) you can also make Mage Armor last 16 hours. So you can cast it and then go to sleep to get your resources back and then still have a full day of Mage Armor.
....but Shield lets you channel your inner MC Hammer and sing "You Can't Touch This"!
Just a 1 lvl dip renders mage armor obsolete tho
Love the promotion of your own product during your discussion on Ray of Sickness. I would love to see more spell tactics and game choices you would recommend for Dungeons of Drakenhiem.
S tier video, thanks guys!
Hope you Dudes are having a great day!
@ 9:34 If the bbeg's hechman only had one arm, then you *know* there is a note hidden by Illusory Script somewhere.....because
"And that's why you always leave a note!"
The shield/mage armor discussion is the spice that keeps me coming back week after week. #shieldgang
Tremendous work, dudes !
I think Shield of Faith is a better spell for non spell casters classes to pick up with magic initiate. It's great for a Monk, rouge, or fighters who are in tougher spots. Specifically a monk who wants to add to unarmored defence in a pinch. Plus you can pick up 2 cleric cantrips
Exactly what my Nephew does with his Long Death Monk/Death Cleric Build. He loves hiting Toll The Dead on 2 enemies that are 5 feet apart while having SoF.
The magic missile segway was so good I thought we were still talking about shield.
Sanctuary is incredibly strong if used correctly. It's a good way to protect someone who is about to get taken out or suddenly got surrounded. It's also strong if your support has their hands full trying to save others, and can't afford to take hits from enemies. This can make it pair really well with Life Transference.
I also found a weird edge case for a mounted combatant. A Lore Bard who took Find Greater Steed, Armor of Agathys, Fire Shield, and Shadow of Moil can cast all of those things on themselves, duplicating the casts on their mount. Upcast Aid, grab Warding Bond from Magic Initiate or a Cleric dip, then cast Sanctuary on yourself. Sure, it'll put Sanctuary on the mount too, which goes away when it attacks, but now the pet is damn near impossible to kill, and you're almost impossible to attack. And even if they get past the Sanctuary, they have to hit you, and if they manage that too, you still do a bunch of retaliation damage. Then you can recast Sanctuary, and use low level slots on Cure Wounds, healing yourself and your mount. Find Greater Steed is weird as heck. You essentially share your HP pool with your mount, make it hard to kill, and rely mostly on its combat prowess. The mount is the actual fighter. You're just the support riding on its back.
Great video! Love the ideas
The Jumpspell makes you into Mario. You have to yell WAHOO when jumping under this spell.
Shield of Faith is actually a go to for my Paladin/ sorcerer. He's got plate, a shield, a Staff of Defence, a Ring of Protection, and a Cloak of Displacement. I don't need the disadvantage from Protection from Evil and Good because the cloak already does that. So the +2 AC is more important.
Sounds like you've already got great AC, why wouldn't you rather concentrate on something like Bless?
Bless is still better for him
@@brewdaly1873 because I want to be a wall. No one will get past me to my allies.
And at tier 2, I still face many enemies with a +10 or higher to hit. With blindsight, truesight, or some other way to negate my cloak. At that point, I'm still getting hit a large amount of the time.
@@crownlexicon5225 I mean, you do you, but you can get up to what, 27 AC by casting Shield with your staff, plus the cloak? +2 on top of that just seems less impactful than boosting attacks and saving throws for multiple allies, or throwing out a smite spell for a bunch of extra damage, or sprit shroud for damage and slowing down your enemies. But hey, sounds like it does what you want it to, so more power to you.
I gotta say, I really like that Armourers get Magic Missile; it's such a fun and pretty effective damage-dealing spell, which Artificers do seem to lack, on top of its special effect of being eminently consistent by always hitting (which is always nice to have in your pocket), AND it can be flavoured to be like a barrage of literal missiles fired from your shoulder-mounted launcher or something
Shield of Faith story - I was playing in a Rime of the Frostmaiden campaign. I was a buff focused Divine Soul Sorcerer 2/ Paladin 2. I would often Twin Metamagic Shield of Faith on myself giving me 21 AC (half Plate 15, +2 Dex, +2 for wooden shield, +2 for shield of faith) & 26 AC with Shield Spell on a reaction, and then bump the AC on the GWM Barbarian from 16 to 18. Combined with Proficiency in Con saves, it had a better chance of staying maintained for a longer period of time.
Even as we reached tier 2, We would use this to bottleneck many doorways and hallways. Sometimes side by side, sometimes the barbarian in front, with me standing behind him, casting around him.
Additionally, SoF was used often when the party was spread out. Bless has a 30ft range while SoF has 60 Ft. If I was low on initative, It was possible party members were out of range to be a target of Bless, yet SoF could still reach and still have my action to cast a cantrip.
Just want to point out that you can target a creature that's at zero hit points and making death saves with sanctuary. That's the S tier use of this spell.
But then it's competing with Healing Word, which will bring them back up and stop them from making death saves. And most people who gets Sanctuary gets Healing Word.
Maybe if you’re an Artificer, but if you’re a Cleric, why on earth didn’t you just use healing word?
@@normal6483lol didn’t see that someone had already commented exactly it what I was thinking
@@normal6483 I don’t care for healing word because it tends to lead towards heal spam, which is really bad overall. It’s almost better to just keep them safe without making them a target and then focus your spell slots on dealing damage and ending the encounter.
I think that you could remove the concentration requirement from Shield of Faith and it would maybe move it to the bottom if S-Tier, but if you also reduced its duration to 1 minute I think it’d be a really solid A-Tier to B-Tier spell
I’m with Monty on Mage armor > shield if I could only have one for my wizard. Awesome videos guys!
Hey guys at the end of the video I was having a weird situation where it sounded like the beginning of the video audio started playing. Idk if it was just me, but it kept happening. Thought I would point it out in case it happened during editing
I had been waiting for this video to settle my internal "Mage Armor vs. Shield" debate, but now it's even murkier. Guess I'll just need to pick a side... Shield Gang, rise up!
The way I see it, shield can be cast by anyone wearing any armor. That makes it more useful than mage armor.
Ice knife can be used in silence. I can’t think of another.
Wow! Yeah thats a great point!
Tbh i thought that was a weird comment because exploding ice wouldn't be that quiet.....until i looked it up and saw there is no verbal component.
Love these videos, gief more tier rankings plxplox!
What would you think of making Longstrider a ritual, while still retaining the 1-hour duration? It's an easier ask to be able to cast it on someone, but you're still limited in the number of creatures with it active at a given time.
I would take that in a heartbeat
Our group has taken the other route of making LS an 8 hour duration spell
Good as Shield is, you can't be walking around with 11 AC. It gets the glory because you consciously have to use it, so the recognition of its effect is built in whereas the baseline armor value is forgotten
Got a good illusory script story. As a rogue mastermind, I framed a thieves' guild member for murder. He was sending us on a mission, and I made a show of demanding that he sign a contract stipulating the exact rewards and terms, etc. He reads over the contract, says it looks good, signs it in blood. The note was actually a kill order, and after he signed it, I turned in the "evidence" to the city watch. I appreciated the DM for throwing in the "sign in blood" bit to make it even more effective. The DM had me roll deception, and when I won that roll, the mark didn't bother to examine the document closely or make the int check to discern the illusion.
You guys are underappreciating Longstrider. What it and Jump have in common is that they only cost a 1st level spell, and they don't require concentration. Jump is less useful because of the short duration and because it's dependent on the types of battlemaps your DM likes to run. Longstrider, however, is universally useful, and it last an hour. Every melee gish should have it up for every combat. Every buffer/supporter should be tossing that on the dwarves in your party, or the swashbucklers, or anyone, really. Also worth mentioning that the move speed carries over to any effect that adds flying speed equal to walking speed, like magic items or certain racials.
On the mage armor vs shield debate: I know you guys were trolling each other, but yes, mage armor is the better of the two spells in that one niche situation, when you are a squishy spellcaster with absolutely no other way to raise your AC. If you have at least studded leather armor, then Shield is better. The correct answer is to take both. Mage Armor goes up in value in low magic campaigns. Still though, the optimal wizard build is always to go heavy armor and shield, making mage armor obsolete. I'd consider mage armor an excellent backup spell when all of those other methods fail.
PFE&G is not as campaign dependent as you guys indicate. Nearly any campaign has these creature types pop up here and there. Even if you're hunting bandits, the DM is gonna throw some undead or elementals or something at you at some point. I can't imagine a campaign without monster variety. You should always have this spell if it's available, just in case.
You're taking the wrong approach with Sanctuary. The use case isn't niche support builds that don't attack; the use case is an oh-shit button that saves fallen allies. You aren't expecting the full duration to get used. You just need to protect a vulnerable target for long enough that they can scramble to safety. As a DM with high difficulty, combat-focused encounters, my players make excellent use of this spell all the time. Sometimes, they'll attack something, drop a Goading or Cavalier taunt, then bonus action sanctuary and let the monsters waste a round, knowing that they plan on attacking and breaking it later. Also, if you are super strict with the RAW interpretation, only *casting* a spell that affects enemies breaks Sanctuary, so you could Spirit Guardians, then run in, Dodge, and Sanctuary yourself. DM might not let you get away with those shenanigans.
Searing Smite is such a tragic spell. As a DM, if players use abilities that add these persist, annoying DOT effects, like fire elemental touch, etc, then I like to reward them by having the enemies waste a turn putting out the fire. Same thing with "use an action to shake the creature awake" control spells. While the damage is bad, wasting a creature's turn can be worth it. Too bad Searing Smite is such a shitty way to accomplish that effect.
Shield > MA
But I did use shield of faith to get my artificer's ac up in the 30s by level 3. But I wasn't a cleric and my familiar was concentrating on it, so... 🤷🏻♂️ Also had sanctuary on my familiar with that same character. Familiar was taking help action, so being able to do that without opertunity attacks was helpful.
The Sorcerer I'm currently playing took Shield first. Then found an item to give him mage armor. Having both is obviously ideal (if you don't have something that replaces the mage armor), but besides that I think it's a discussion of how often you expect to get attacked. If you don't expect to get attacked super often, shield is the better choice.
Magic Missile is also 3 unavoidable death save fails for your players. Gotta be at a table where that's not going to cause issues though.
my players weren't healing the rogue because the enemy wizard was in combat with the martials pretty far away. I MM'ed the rogue downing him with 2 darts and hitting him twice with the other 2. They then understood the urgency that comes with fighting wizards from then on out.
You can cast the summon after Sanctuary too and it doesn't end the effect, since a summoning spell doesn't directly damage an enemy. The summons afterwards attacking enemies are not you attacking them so Sanctuary stays still. I am also currently playing a tanky devotion paladin in a campaign that uses Sanctuary all the time to ward whichever party member the enemies are focusing on (quite often the land druid in the party).
Omg and Monty at the end of the video..” Yeah, and you died!” 😂😂😂😂
Larian’s decision to make a lot of the enhanced movement spells ritual casts so that they have infinite out-of-combat use was a great decision.
Even with DnD’s more restrictive spell preparation, I think this would be a huge step in the right direction.
A note. Shouldn’t Find Traps work like Find Familiar or Find Steed?
>Spellcaster casts Find Traps
>Party immediately falls into a hole full of spikes
>Spellcaster: „Found it!“
That sounds funny. Find Traps giving you a magic Bear Trap
@@twicedeadmage like a mini glyph of warding. Maybe a bit of damage and Restrained condition? 1d10 and restrained until end of next turn?
@@antiscam2468 It could be. But what would it happens if you Up Cast it. Maybe a Better Trap?
The fact that it doesn't find the trap, and just alters you to the presence of traps in the area sucks. It seems like it should be a secondary effect of some other spell as opposed to a full spell on its own. If the spell alerted you to the location of all the traps in a room, and as a secondary effect could tell you if there are other traps in a radius that'd be fine as an example.
I loved the Mage Armor Shield tension, but I would take Shield first if I had to choose. Either way, great show as always.
Nice use of Magic Mouth @ 1:01:30
I think the big issue with Mage Armor is that a lot of Wizards and Sorcerers like to Multiclass a level into a class that gets Heavy Armor. Paladin or Fighter, or even Cleric, depending on Subclass. One level in any of these gives a lot to a "mage".
Artificer also gives Medium Armor and Shields without worrying about multiclassing stats, while still advancing spell slots, so even a purely Int-focused build will still be able to get usable armor.
Fun fact. During past ages, at the “how to play an evocation Wizard” It was Monty that picked shield before mage armor (cause it was a great commitment to use a spell slot at early levels) and Kelly made his Wizard picking mage armor first.
Funny to see how the perspective can change 😂
My vote for mage armor vs shield argument is I love watching you two argue over bacon & cheese :D
The Shield / Mage Armour argument - peak D&D comedy content!
I think it'd be a good idea to make a compilation video of the other videos you made of 1st level spells. It can be hard what the other tiers were for other spells, plus long form videos you guys make are enjoyable
O man i always love these videos.
Thank you for your videos.
I've been trying to find a way to defend Mage Armor as the first pick, but honestly, I think it will always be Shield. The only characters who generally get access to Mage Armor are Wizards, Sorcerers, and potentially Warlocks. In the later case, they get it through the Eldritch Invocation Armor of Shadows, which lets them cast it without expending a spell slot, so it's a very different scenario and choice for that class to make. As a Wizard and Sorcerer, I'm generally not putting myself on the front lines enough to be subjected to multiple attacks that would warrant a more consistent +3 bonus to AC over a reactionary and discretionary +5 when I am targeted. The only exception to this rule is the Bladesinger for me, in which case... I just take both. They get to add two spells to their book per level, so you could always take both if you don't already have them in your starting 6. Still, if I was playing a level 1 wizard that wanted to bladesing at the next level but still wanted to start off the campaign attempting to be in melee, I might consider Mage Armor first as its bonus could be applicable to more incoming attacks than a couple uses of shield.
I've used Shield of Faith as a way to further buff my Paladin's ability to just be a wall in a hallway or chokepoint. There was one scenario in a campaign where there was literally only a 10-ft opening into a large cavern of monsters. My sword and board paladin stood on one 5-ft space while the fighter took the other. Using shield of faith on me to raise my AC up and then using my reaction with the Protection fighting style on my Fighter ally to give attacks against them disadvantage while then using my action to only dodge... I made two hard to hit, high AC characters hold back the flood of monsters while the back line pelted them with ranged attacks and the fighter got his swings in. We trivialized an encounter the DM thought would wipe us given our... poor decision making.
I agree. Mage armor first, then shield. Covers your bases better and lasts longer. (Hilarious conversation though)
Longstrider is surprisingly useable at higher levels. Low level damage spells are pointless vs cantrips but you have slots. It’s no concentration, can be cast out of combat but can help slow dwarves and halfling to get to wood elf speed. Basically good for high level concentration casters who never use their slots
Mage armour is top tier on a sorcerer with extended spell metamagic. 16hrs of Protection for 1 point and a 1st lvl spell. *Chef kiss*
I think you are underrating Longstrider, especially at mid-high levels. 1 hour, no concentration, stacks with everything, can target allies, and has great upcasting. At low levels, it isn't worth the spell slot but at higher levels its a good way to use one or two lower level spell slots to improve mobility of you or your friends. You can get the most mileage out of it on cheesegrater teams (one party member grapples the enemy and drags them through a spike growth or a similar spell effect), but there are a number of situations in which more mobility is very useful (pursuit, escape, better positioning, difficult terrain, etc). A solid B for me. If you're still on the fence about it, ask your friend Treantmonk his thoughts.
Sat here the whole time to the end (I was going to anyway) and I realized towards the end that I wasn’t going to get to hear a rant about Silvery Barbs. It better be half of the next video 😂
This Mage Armour v Shield thing could be its own podcast series 😂
Illusory Script:
A). Villain spells out the evil plan and where to go in the plain text. Secret text tells real plan. Plain text leads to a trap. Bonus points if written on the back of an Invisibility scroll. Now the players think they know why Detect Magic says it is Illusion. (if you want to give a hint, make the scroll Illusory Script.)
B). Send a hidden letter. Make the illusion just more information you wanted to include in the letter. Now you only need 1/2 as much paper.
Mage Armor:
If you can use Mage Armor to increase your AC, Find literally any other way to increase your AC.
P.S. - Shield is clearly cheese
Gotta say, I'm a mage armor apologist. Shield is SO good at nullifying hits over a round, but like. I can't argue with a long lasting passive benefit, I love that shit
Longstrider comes into its own in a higher level campaign, where you have low level spell slots to spare, especially if you are a dwarf or halfling, then it is S tier.