Here you are. Thought experiment, that if character's could interact with platforms in wild ways: - DK grabs and swings underneath one - K. Rool creates a shockwave below - Bowser can set them on fire and maybe even destroy them. - Rosalina can reposition them (Maybe with a ramming hitbox while moving) - Steve builds a small structure underneath it, prevent people from passing through. - Snake sets up an additional traps underneath it - Roar grabs and slams in an overhead arc like using a chair in a wrestling match - Pit pulls it down and hides behind it for cover like his Brawl DB. - Samus/ZSS uses it for cover fire - A villain character turns one of them into a enemy mook - Villy/Belle leaves flowers behind which slow people down and prohibit people from messing with it like Clairens Force Field - Certain attack animations change to hit below platforms as well (like the flames of Ike's Neutral-B flow under the projectile rather then spawn pillars in-front) Etc. Putting some PLATFORM Fighting aspects in the PLATFORM Fighter. lol
Stages I would love to see: More “legal”/tourney friendly stage hazards, like Randall, shy guys, smashville balloons, that one low platform in combo devils. I always think about how awesome that smash ultimate tourney moment was when the richter bounced off a Pikmin with dair to recover, imagine if it was a balloon or something to hit that refreshed a resource, like the gems in the rushdown revolt story mode More stages with the smash ultimate king of fighters wall, where you bounce off until you’re at kill percent Kazuyas stage where you break through the wall, but when you’re offstage it drags you back to ledge The final fantasy 7 gimmick where the stage gets split in half. Would be cool if the whole stage but the very bottom surface split, so it could open up like a little cave temporarily More paper Mario esque stages where it switches between 3 different areas and stage design on rotation More stages that’s like the animal crossing island stage where it’s just a giant island with randomly generated trees/platforms More giant stages like TEMPLE More super giant stages like palutenas temple and the Kirby one
So one thing I will say that you need to understand is that any stage designed needs a clear goal as to why it exists and for what players. Studies have showed in multiplayer titles people tend to find the few maps/stages they like and just play that. This means you either design your stages around competitive balance goals to give types of characters boobs or you design casual stages for specific types of players. Without a clear goal your stage will fail. For instance, everyone knows cornera in melee becomes a camp fest and yet casually it was very popular because it leads to a unique style of dumb casual fun. If I were to make a stage, I would experiment with making the fight club area of temple as a singular area with maybe a platform or two for players that want to smack each other around. Similar to Temple it would have only two areas you can smack someone out of otherwise people bounce around the ceiling and floor. This would appeal to people who play purely for "slapstick funny"
I also had a more experimental idea of two smaller battlefield shaped stages with separate blast zones but lined up side to side that you can teleport between using a portal in the middle of the battlefield layout for ridiculous zoning/item wars. I was inspired by this one map I can't remember the name of right now from the first halo game I think it would have a unique appeal.
Tbf I think it all comes down to how well a stage/map is designed. Team Fortress 2's competitive scene has a pretty broad range of maps which have their own traits from gamemode to format (sixes, highlander, prolander) even within gamemodes like control points have pretty big variance and favor other characters than others, Gullywash favors soldiers for example but other maps favor Scout. Highlander has a much wider range of maps than sixes, like Attack/Defend and Payload ontop of King of the Hill.
@@SoftwareNeos What you do, is design more experimental counter picks. I would argue the "stale designs" work for neutral choices (except fd which is a counter pick for sure no matter what). For example you might experiment with swinging platforms, a stage that is long but the ends of the stage can break and fall off of if stood on top long, or even a stage with a single bumper in the middle. While this is a different genre I would study successful TF2 maps to understand how it creates maps for specific purposes and how you can incorporate those lessons into stage design factoring in the fundamental differences in how these games function.
@@Krona-fb4dn Baller take and pretty much where I am coming from. The maps in TF2 all for the most part have a design goal and the ones that have a strong niche the community likes became wildly popular. From the comp players of various formats to casuals there was room for everyone to find what they like because designing maps with a goal leads to everything finding at least one they gel with.
I do hope that Sakurai hears stuff like this out. The stages themselves DO need interactive stuff in them to add to the fun instead of worrying about evil hazards. Things that ppl actually want/don't mind like the moving plats on Melee's Yoshi Island, destroyable plats/object's that spawn back, offstage springs that bounce you back to the stage, ect. You can do alot with this tbh, especially when we're talking things that better represent franchises
@@SoftwareNeos I guess better because you are taking that into consideration in editing but if that was the edited version I don’t know if I could have even made it through the whole thing . I would say that them talking over other people was worse over all then the stuttering so if they could just try to improve that it would be better.
I think you should have shown MGG's platform get up list when he mentioned it so the audience knows what we were talking about.
Damn. I knew i forgot something
Here you are.
Thought experiment, that if character's could interact with platforms in wild ways:
- DK grabs and swings underneath one
- K. Rool creates a shockwave below
- Bowser can set them on fire and maybe even destroy them.
- Rosalina can reposition them (Maybe with a ramming hitbox while moving)
- Steve builds a small structure underneath it, prevent people from passing through.
- Snake sets up an additional traps underneath it
- Roar grabs and slams in an overhead arc like using a chair in a wrestling match
- Pit pulls it down and hides behind it for cover like his Brawl DB.
- Samus/ZSS uses it for cover fire
- A villain character turns one of them into a enemy mook
- Villy/Belle leaves flowers behind which slow people down and prohibit people from messing with it like Clairens Force Field
- Certain attack animations change to hit below platforms as well (like the flames of Ike's Neutral-B flow under the projectile rather then spawn pillars in-front)
Etc.
Putting some PLATFORM Fighting aspects in the PLATFORM Fighter. lol
Stages I would love to see:
More “legal”/tourney friendly stage hazards, like Randall, shy guys, smashville balloons, that one low platform in combo devils. I always think about how awesome that smash ultimate tourney moment was when the richter bounced off a Pikmin with dair to recover, imagine if it was a balloon or something to hit that refreshed a resource, like the gems in the rushdown revolt story mode
More stages with the smash ultimate king of fighters wall, where you bounce off until you’re at kill percent
Kazuyas stage where you break through the wall, but when you’re offstage it drags you back to ledge
The final fantasy 7 gimmick where the stage gets split in half. Would be cool if the whole stage but the very bottom surface split, so it could open up like a little cave temporarily
More paper Mario esque stages where it switches between 3 different areas and stage design on rotation
More stages that’s like the animal crossing island stage where it’s just a giant island with randomly generated trees/platforms
More giant stages like TEMPLE
More super giant stages like palutenas temple and the Kirby one
TEMPLE IN RIVALS 2
TEMPLE IN RIVALS 2
TEMPLE IN RIVALS 2
TEMPLE IN RIVALS 2 TEMPLE IN RIVALS 2
TEMPLE IN RIVALS 2
41:25 “biblically accurate melee yoshi’s island”
So one thing I will say that you need to understand is that any stage designed needs a clear goal as to why it exists and for what players. Studies have showed in multiplayer titles people tend to find the few maps/stages they like and just play that. This means you either design your stages around competitive balance goals to give types of characters boobs or you design casual stages for specific types of players. Without a clear goal your stage will fail.
For instance, everyone knows cornera in melee becomes a camp fest and yet casually it was very popular because it leads to a unique style of dumb casual fun.
If I were to make a stage, I would experiment with making the fight club area of temple as a singular area with maybe a platform or two for players that want to smack each other around. Similar to Temple it would have only two areas you can smack someone out of otherwise people bounce around the ceiling and floor. This would appeal to people who play purely for "slapstick funny"
I also had a more experimental idea of two smaller battlefield shaped stages with separate blast zones but lined up side to side that you can teleport between using a portal in the middle of the battlefield layout for ridiculous zoning/item wars. I was inspired by this one map I can't remember the name of right now from the first halo game I think it would have a unique appeal.
Usually i think there are ways to bridge the gap in comp and casual... but i guess this makes sense
Tbf I think it all comes down to how well a stage/map is designed.
Team Fortress 2's competitive scene has a pretty broad range of maps which have their own traits from gamemode to format (sixes, highlander, prolander)
even within gamemodes like control points have pretty big variance and favor other characters than others, Gullywash favors soldiers for example but other maps favor Scout.
Highlander has a much wider range of maps than sixes, like Attack/Defend and Payload ontop of King of the Hill.
@@SoftwareNeos What you do, is design more experimental counter picks. I would argue the "stale designs" work for neutral choices (except fd which is a counter pick for sure no matter what). For example you might experiment with swinging platforms, a stage that is long but the ends of the stage can break and fall off of if stood on top long, or even a stage with a single bumper in the middle.
While this is a different genre I would study successful TF2 maps to understand how it creates maps for specific purposes and how you can incorporate those lessons into stage design factoring in the fundamental differences in how these games function.
@@Krona-fb4dn Baller take and pretty much where I am coming from. The maps in TF2 all for the most part have a design goal and the ones that have a strong niche the community likes became wildly popular. From the comp players of various formats to casuals there was room for everyone to find what they like because designing maps with a goal leads to everything finding at least one they gel with.
Lego brawls mention
I wish I couldve been here for this vid really cool ideas
46:39 My favorite part
16:05
Awww, my BlindSight footage wasn't included.
Oh well.
2:00
you're welcome
I do hope that Sakurai hears stuff like this out. The stages themselves DO need interactive stuff in them to add to the fun instead of worrying about evil hazards. Things that ppl actually want/don't mind like the moving plats on Melee's Yoshi Island, destroyable plats/object's that spawn back, offstage springs that bounce you back to the stage, ect. You can do alot with this tbh, especially when we're talking things that better represent franchises
44:44 I'm the stage guy in the Fraymakers modding community I could make that reality
You should
upload it to the workshop
Tempest not so peak
You never showed my message in from media
Not trying to be rude but god affort was making this hard to listen to. I did like some of their ideas though
Is it better or worse to say that i actually cut a lot of his audio to get his main ideas out quicker?
@@SoftwareNeos I guess better because you are taking that into consideration in editing but if that was the edited version I don’t know if I could have even made it through the whole thing . I would say that them talking over other people was worse over all then the stuttering so if they could just try to improve that it would be better.
it's ok i hate my voice too
40:10 What is wrong with this guy?
He got anxiety. Sometimes it takes a little while to get the right words.
@@SoftwareNeos, I hope he gets that under control
Tempest mid