Honestly this is kinda why thor in Endgame made sense. Once all the fighting was done and there wasn't a major crisis a lot of that emotional pileup finally reached a breaking point.
I honestly don't understand those that just wanted Thor to be the badass he was in Infinity War. Infinity War was great but until the third act it just felt like a superhero blockbuster for me. I liked how Endgame portrayed its characters as flawed and broken people and reacted to their failures in defeating Thanos and losing their loved ones like how real people would react if they faced a similar situation which is why I actually liked Endgame more than Infinity War.
@@IndecisiveJR I was all for him hitting a breaking point with endgame, because Jesus he got a short stick even with all the short sticks. My issue is how he's a punchline in endgame. They undercut the nice emotional moments he has during the time heist by consistently using him as a comedy character. You can't ask us to laugh at him and then cry with him back to back. Which all sucks! He's actually my fav avenger, and he had such an interesting situation in endgame, and they treat him like a joke.
@@RenaDeles, I have this friend who was incredible when they were younger. Went out, hitch-hiked across the country, had adventures, then came back and just shattered. In and out of jail regularly, literally institutionalized, can't have a coherent conversation with them now. And there are these... moments; like embers in an ash pile, of the person I knew from before. Where they hold themselves together and you believe that this time, this time... it's different. They're back. They're not; the job is lost in an hour, the cell phone that was just replaced is spiked in rage, the person who has a plan becomes a screaming monster hurling insults and threats. Because they can't be back. Old habits are old tools, and the old tools are what brought them into this point of their life. They have to be someone new, and that's... tragic. Thor, as a space adventurer viking god king... kinda still really only had the two responses to problems; hit it with an axe, or get drunk. Endgame illustrated the problems with that dichotomy, but kind of also made each of those 'laugh at him' moments into tragic hero beats, too. 'cuz again; Axe or Drink. He's drunk around everyone for a very long time; quite possibly because if not, he'd have to axe.
Honestly, I feel like they made Thor the Wolverine of the MCU during this saga. We see how he has unhealthy coping mechanisms for every horrible thing that ever happened to him. When he's lost everything, he regresses to his base form, a fighter. Hence his determination to forge a new hammer to kill the one responsible for his pain, and then when even that fails, he slinks further into his shelf, becoming a reclusive alcoholic who hides his misery behind a smile. Endgame, in my opinion, truly made him feel vulnerable. For all the centuries he had lived, for all the battles he had fought, for all the bloodshed he had witnessed and even caused, his heart was still youngest, even if he was biologically the oldest Avenger. He was a scared child who witnessed absolute Hell and he reverted to the one thing any scared child would do. Look for his mum. And a simple few kind words from his mum was all it took to get him back on his feet. The truth about vulnerability and validation is, even if you know you're strong, it still helps when you hear someone else say it. Sure, being addicted to validation is toxic, but in moderation, and with good reason, a simple, "Hey, I know you're struggling, but it's okay. And I'm proud of you that you're still pushing through, and I believe in you." can go a long way. This is even further strengthened by when Mjolnir flies right to his hand. In Thor's mind, he felt he had failed in every manner. He felt he failed as a son when he watched his parents die. He felt he failed as a brother as he watched Loki sacrifice himself for Thanos. He felt he failed as a king and protector when so many Asgardian refugees were killed aboard the Statesman, and lastly, he felt he failed as a warrior when he failed to aim for the head, resulting in half the universe to dust away. But Mjolnir still came flying to him. Every other time, when the hammer came to him, it boosted his hubris, making him think, "Of course I'm worthy, I'm the best.", but this time, the hammer humbles him, breathing new life and hope into his spirits, making him think, "Thank you for believing in me even when I hit rock bottom.", which in turn made him believe in himself again, but this time, not arrogantly. This is further shown by his sheer joy when Cap wielded the hammer. Thor wasn't hurt or distraught. He was elated to see a comrade be just as resolved, boosting his confidence even more, which is probably why the one running right next to Cap in the final charge, side to side, was Thor. Even when he summons Mjolnir and Stormbreaker for the final clash with Thanos, he doesn't have a arrogant attitude about his worthiness. Because now he knows that what really mattered was the mission. He had a chance to make things genuinely right, so he becomes stern, focused, and says, "Let's kill him properly this time." For in that moment, he managed to represent the best of who he was in all his past movies. He had the will of a warrior, and the selfless determination of a king. In that moment, he was truly worthy.
do more character themed videos like this, centred around specific characters instead of the movies. the characters really make the movie when it comes to the mcu, for this reason, captain america and iron man would be so interesting to explore further over their journeys.
Where have you been? He's broken down Cap, Stark, Thanos, Parker, Quill and the other guardians, and Thor. It's hard to separate the character from the story since the story is a course of actions they take and lessons they some times learn from it.
Venom Squanch i have seen the other vids, i just meant as more of a specific focus on the individual character over the series instead of the overall movie’s thematic motifs and ideas.
The Infinity War scene with Rocket has always been one of the most emotional scenes for me from the entire MCU, i really can’t explain it on my own but this video has made it clear why. Thanks for this!
I love how Endgame shows the breaking points of characters it shows them at there lows which symbolizes us (the viewer) making them somewhat relatable as people who go through problems in there own emotional way
This one came at just the right time for me. My birthday is in a few days. The roughest decade of my life is coming to a close in a month and a half. I wouldn't say my trauma was on Thor's level but it did stem from one decision that I couldn't forgive myself for after. The world I knew crumbled into dust and I had to start again from maybe four to five steps from zero (good friends and family making sure it wasn't actually AT zero). Now my life is better, if still a little rough around the edges. I feel like I'm going someplace that I actually wanted to be the whole time. In my old life, I dreamed about it but I never could get to it. Now I can...and that came from contextualizing the past as Thor did.
I don’t think it needs to be on that level to be connected to. Mythological characters, since ancient times, were always meant to have exaggerated real world problems people could attach themselves with. Fighting with your siblings is something everyone with siblings can relate to, being disillusioned with your parents can also be relatable, losing your home, losing your parents, falling from grace, letting your emotions ruin a big moment and failing everyone in the process, it can happen to anyone of us, the character just experiences these things on a different level. It’s good to hear you managed to get through your shitty situation. I won’t ask, but if it took you a decade to get through, it must have been a nightmare. Surprisingly, Thor was an inspirational figure for me as well during a very dark three year period between 2016 and 2019, to always keep pushing, even if everything seems to be over. Much like you, out of nowhere, without warning, everything seemed to fall apart, but I kept pushing until it was fixed. It’s impressive how many people have come to see him in this way recently, considering everyone found him boring and unrelatable in the beginning. You’ve probably heard it a lot, but a stay strong. I’ve come to realize that shitty situations are a matter of who lasts longer, you or those situations. They will get tired and stop eventually, you just have to pace yourself in order to see them exhausted. And the people who stuck by you during those times, keep them around, because they’re rare. Most people will abandon you when the going gets tough, and you’re lucky to at least have had them.
Brilliant analysis. I would like to add something though. I think Odin in the MCU is an example of an immoral character who tried his best to escape his true nature. This adds to the themes you mentioned, and it makes sense. Back in the day, the Vikings worshipped him, and the highest form of status was killing and taking over lands. The more of that you had, the greater a man you were. That’s not looked up to anymore, and it’s also reflected by Odin, how in his old age, he no longer seeks out war and conquests, and tries to dissuade Thor from that. Thor was always seen by the Scandinavians as the peak male figure, the best a real man could hope to be, and Odin tries to shape him into an ideal man, knowing he himself isn’t one. Makes sense why he was so pissed at Loki, when he tried to do the same thing Odin used to, when he came to conquer Earth with the Chitauri, he reminded him of who he was and tried to keep his sons from becoming. Basically he saw a failure on his behalf, and he seems to handle that the same with all his children, keeping them locked away, instead of trying to help them out of it. We see that from the first Thor movie, Thor just happened to learn humility because of the people he was surrounded by, not because of his punishment. If he was taken in by some gang who found out how strong he was and used him for his skills and power, he wouldn’t learn anything, just enhance who he thought he should be. We even see that Loki’s real desire was to be loved and looked up on, and waging wars to force people into it was how he knew he could get that, because his father did it, and he was worshipped, so did his brother, and he was always the celebrity of Asgard. As soon as those influences went away for some time, all he did was put on some theater and keep Asgard in a state of celebration instead of being a malevolent war hungry dictator like Odin was. In Thor 2, grief for his wife’s death breaks down the walls Odin has created and has him reverting back to who he really is. It does the same to Thor. Thor is however a naturally good and moral man who initially tried to be more like who his father used to be, because that’s what he was raised with and that’s what he admired. When push comes to shove, grief and pain reveal who he really is too, and that is a good and heroic man who will push with everything to the last second until he does what’s right, especially when he ends up losing far more than Odin ever did. Even when he is at the lowest of the low, when he’s fat, depressed and a complete failure, Mjolnir still finds him worthy, because of who he really is despite of all that. This wouldn’t happen with Odin, because while with age and wisdom he found out what a genuinely good king and person is, he’s too old and too far gone to do anything but pretend to be one in hopes his sons can be like that, unlike his daughter who knew him when he was what he was ashamed of. You can stop here, but on a personal note, I have felt the same with my father. As a kid, he was this invincible, all knowing entity to me, while now that I’m older, I see him as a deeply flawed person, who did his best to make sure me and my sister were raised well. His father died in WWII, so he never really knew how to handle fatherhood. Now that he’s 80 and his facade is harder to maintain, I see his insecurities, his failings, sometimes his lack of self awareness, and despite all that, he’s still my hero who was working tirelessly with a smile on his face to make sure this is who we’d try to be. This is how I’ll remember him. Similar to Thor, he’s inspired me to always push no matter how meaningless it might seem to even try. It’s interesting how Thor has turned out to be one of the more relatable MCU heroes, even though he’s a godly figure.
Thank you so much for this video. I can't even begin to explain how much it affected me emotionally. I think Thor's journey is one that a lot of us go through where we realize that we can't always be what others want us to be, but instead we need to learn to be who we ourselves want to be.
Your essays are ABSOLUTELY stunning. Listening to your calm words explaining something sincere and vulnerable about beloved characters makes me nostalgic and happy.
All I know is that when Thor, in Endgame, is able to call his hammer and then realizes he is still worthy, my heart breaks every time. The way Marvel has handled Thor is just amazing.
I’ve been having some identity issues as of late. My mental heath has deteriorated. In therapy I often talk about films and having recently watched Endgame I was telling my therapist how important Thor is to the MCU. This right here perfectly puts into words I could never express. I am excited for therapy next week to discuss this. Thank you for beginning clarity to me in this troubling time man.
Dude! Great to see you uploading again! You got me out of a rut with these mcu breakdowns. You have my thanks!!! I always wondered why some of these movies made me emotional sometimes, and feel pumped up and ready to tackle and grab life by the neck after watching them. Whoo! Additionally, I never thought the MCU characters could be interpreted in a traumatic way, and that they would be the perfect place to decompress. Hard to find therapy group conversations where I'm from lol
Got me right in the feels since I've been dealing with loss and maturing into adulthood over the past 2 years. This video is a turning point for me, so thank you for putting this together-even if it took 5 accents.
Fantastic essay, this is one of the best deconstructions of Thor's character arc I've seen. I learned a lot from it and have a deeper appreciation of him now. Thank you
@@ImplicitlyPretentious Not at all. Thor's arc in the MCU is very interesting when you analyze it, and you did a superb job at laying it out for us to understand. In a time where everything is rushed and superficial, content like this is truly refreshing. Thanks bro.
I've been watching you for a while now, but I just wanted to say you've quickly become my favourite RUclipsr when it comes to video essays. The way you deconstruct the characters and their stories is amazing! Please never stop 🙌
I legit just spent my down time over the past 4 days thinking about how much Thor had been through before Endgame, and it made me really sad, but also kind of hopeful. Thor Tony Jaa’ed for so long. He took the hit and got strong from it until he couldn’t take any more hits. Thor is life lesson for me to accept when I need to deal with my pain and get help, not just try to power through it.
Yeah I've got a plan right now to go through and compare Steve and Tony's journey which includes going covering their arcs from phase 1 to 3, so it's sort of going to happen
@@ImplicitlyPretentious Didn't you already cover his arc through his trilogy and first half of the Avengers quadrilogy? I cannot wait to hear your analysis on his arc through Endgame. Especially the passing of his shield.
It breaks my brain a little when I consider how Odin managed to gaslight his entire kingdom so thoroughly. And in Endgame when Thanos says he's going to have to kill everyone so that they can go into the future unburdened by the past, I immediately wondered if Odin came to the same conclusion. There are interesting parallels between those two scattered throughout the movies.
Thank you for this writing and video. I had to watch it twice to fully understand and appreciate it. And just to let you know. This video has helped me personally in knowing my self as a person, having experience traumatic events and building the self throughout my journey in life. The way you deconstructed the characters gave meaning to their traits and personality to a degree that is relatable to myself. I come back to your videos like this whenever I feel down in life, so I hope this video shall never be taken down ever. You've helped me more than you can ever know. Thank you.
Im only commenting to add to your engagements, this channel deserves millions of subscribers, this content is quality and well thought out, its crazy you havent even broke 100k subs, just keep grinding, the good content will shine through
I've thought of how Steve and Tony develop from selfishness to selflessness (and vice versa) but haven't thought about how Thor becomes free as well. Very well done.
Man this is a fantastic video some people think that the mcu ruined Thor but I've always thought that Thor was changing like all people do what happens when they fighting is done and all your left with is lost and regret hell i might eat and drank to fill the hole in my chest Thors a god so he can do that for ever
This is why the argument of the MCU isn't cinema rubs me the wrong way. Yes they are on the surface dumb action movies, but under the surface they are character movies. You can analyze every single character in the MCU, from the main Advengers to The Guardians, every character is interesting and complex because they go through multiple arcs throughout multiple films.
AND it tells a larger thematic story about changing times. I keep saying that the Infinity Saga is ultimately about the decline and fall of American hegemony and influence, using Xandar, Asgard and Hala as occasional substitutes. But it usually points out how comically powerless the world's mightiest military and foremost secret organization created to deal with the unusual is against the actual threat (first seen with The Destroyer in Thor 1, in fact). I wonder if someone like Marty Scorcese, who was a NYC film professor who used westerns to teach classes, subconsciously zeroed in on this subtext and that forms part of his disdain.
I feel like a lot of people under value the MCU. I can understand not liking it, but I feel calling them generic dumb blockbusters is wrong. First off, let's look at most of modern day blockbusters and action movies, such as Hobbs and Shaw, Transformers, or Venom, and the difference between them and MCU films are night and day. The thing that makes the MCU great is that they're character movies, they are why these movies work. The second thing is that superhero films have come a long way and I think it should be acknowledged that the MCU played a hand in that. The success of superhero cinema has lead a more diversified genre, now we have teen comedies and space epics and lower budget rated R movies. If someone in 2009 said these things would happen and that the genre would movies about a talking tree and raccoon and be number one in pop culture, that person would have been laughed at for stating something so ludicrous.
Yeah, I think time will be the ultimate judge though, art, culture and stories live and die based on its relevance to the human condition. And even if these marvel movies isn't considered cinema now, give it some time and people's ability to talk about Thors trauma or Star Lord's nostalgia will have some more artistic credibility, if that makes sense
@Snehil Shrey They are character movies in the way that that's what matters most for those movies, it's what they mostly focus on and it's why they work.
I am always so amazed by your analysis and the overall structure of videos. The format is exactly like the analytical essays I write in school, yet yours is more compelling and on a higher level. My role model :)
13:16 Narrator: "And Thor is able to tightly hold his grip on his life by a sense of romance. Not necessarily with Jane but with-" * shows Thor with Loki* Me: !! Narrator: "-everything." You almost got me there. I don't know if that was just you making a joke but you almost got me hoping that you'd discuss Thor's complicated relationship with his brother.
So I know you lament talking about trauma theory all the time, but this is important stuff. I relate to this a lot and I re-watched the scene with Frigga last night after I watched this and it was really emotional for me. I brought it up with my therapist and it was useful for us to discuss it. I appreciate the Joseph Campbell stuff, too. We are all going through our own journey (heroic or no) and these things are ultimately relatable. Since I’m dealing with my own trauma, understanding what these characters do to get through theirs helps me to see, perhaps, a way to get through mine. Glad I found your channel, I’ve subscribed and shared this with friends. I appreciate the more intellectual look at this stuff, it makes me feel smart. ;-) Keep up the good work.
Absolutely unreal. I always really enjoyed Thor's character and thought his movies were a pretty entertaining branch of the Marvel universe, but holy shit man, I just developed a whole new dimension of admiration for this character & his narrative in it's entirety. Thank you, so much.
Not sure if anyone mentioned it in the comments, but a video about Nebula's journey would be interesting as well. She quietly has one of the best arcs in the MCU. Loved this video, and hope you follow up with one about Loki.
I am unable to express it through words but in short, your breakdown on this is amazing. All your videos are great but this hit me right in the feels. Thank you for putting in this together.
How about LOTR? I'd argue that could also be considered a fanfiction based on norse myth, even more so than Marvel's Thor. It's been out there for much longer, and is still being revisited in many ways. Maybe not as financially sucessful, but it surely had a much greater impact on culture in general, having spawned D&D and many others. About the Aeneid, I don't know if you can consider anything that predates the 16th century fanfiction, as most surviving literature from before those times that I know of didn't have that kind of tone to it. They shared a common mythos, so they had common elements and ideas, but one wasn't based on the other directly.
7:03 Corny or not, don't say it. If you believe in what you're saying, you will convince, or at least intrigue, someone. Great content, great channel. You helped me see in the MCU a narrative wealth I did not suspect. Thanks I. P.
Thanks! That's incredibly relieving to hear because it was so stressful editing something that's 3 times longer than the usual video in the same amount of time, so I'm glad it measured up! :)
Let's get that algorithm to keep paying attention to this video.. I love it so heckin much btw. Thor is one of my absolute favourite characters in the MCU
This is so beautifully done, sir.. thank you. Im personally having a trauma in the past, its really hard to see the future when there is no future at all. But now, im free.. Thank you
Our identities are constructs, built on our perceived relation to others... It reminds me of a quote I like, "We measure new ideas only in relation to those we have already mastered." We know ourselves only in relation to how we view others, how we compare, how we fit in. And seeing the present through the lens of the past, versus seeing the past through the lens of the present, that really struck me too. I definitely revere The Greatest Generation. I even went so far as to once ask my grandfather (a WWII veteran), "How are you so good?" I occasionally hear others scoff, or even speak disdainfully about The Greatest Generation, and I do not understand, and get pretty defensive. I idealize my past as well, holding on to regrets, never moving past some mistakes, even still wondering what could yet be with the girl I loved in high school, despite not having seen her in more than a decade. Listening to your exposition, I feel like I am Thor. I relate to him, and understand him differently. I still idolize Cap, but Thor is an achievable level for me. I consider myself an idealist, and struggle with realism, to a fault. Looking at the past from the perspective of the present may help with that. I wonder if that perspective -- looking at the present from the past or past through the present -- is an effective way to categorize idealists and realists. I wonder also, how best to consider the future. Thank you for broadening my mind, for stretching it to a new horizon, and giving me much to think about.
exactly. cinema is about following a character, learning about that character, grow with that person, care about that person, and join that person into its personal journey. i love scorsese but he's kind of being a snob towards these films.
thevoid99 Scorsese although my favourite director, is indeed being a snob. These movies I believe are glossed over by many because just like most of Scorsese’s critics they decided to take it at face value and not realize the insight to the meaning or ideology of his characters. He’s being what he hates someone who sees them for what they are: superhero movies, but in a sense and a much larger philosophy are just as good at character building over a period of time as Scorsese himself.
I think the third Thor movie was more centered around the theme of imperialism (the small ship they got away in had the colors of the aboriginal flag after all) and how we as a society need to recognize the horror committed by others before even if we've gained something from it (aka the "Where do you think all this gold came from?" line) and how we have to build a better future even if we need to burn it all down to be build back up. Someone else said it already but yeah you kinda got Odin's character wrong. He IS a ruthless general and the way he raised his kids scarred them. He told stories of "great conquest" and victory and about killing frostgiants while Loki, a frostgiant, was right there. The way he spoke of war made both think that that was the one way to be truly great and to also please their father. So when Loki finds out he's a frostgiant he remembers the stories, connects that to the way Odin always prefered Thor, comes to the conclusion that something about him is inherently flawed and that combined with the glorification of war + his own pride + a bit of a superiority complex gets him to try to commit actual genocide because he got into his dumb head that that is the only way to be worthy. Thor was raised with those violent stories too so that combined, again with all the things i mentioned with Loki, (not the jottun part ofc) leads him to almost do the same. Of course unlike Loki, Thor was removed from that enviorment and shown one where he had to reevaluate his life, like you said, while Loki stayed and decided to do anything and everything to get his way and prove to his father that he is worthy of love. Long story short: Odin is a bad dad. He did the same thing to Thor and Loki as he did with Hela but they got their worldview shaken up before anything worse than New York 2012 happened.
My theory is that Odin is at heart an evil man who did his best to get away from his nature, while Thor is at heart a genuinely good man, who tried to be what his dad used to be. That’s why Odin was so angry that Thor did what he did with the Frost Giants. It’s kind of reflective of the Scandinavians who worshipped these gods back in the day. Death and glory were synonymous, but when they found out a way to live peacefully and didn’t need to take loot from other countries with better environments, they abandoned those ideals. Notice how Loki with those influences went down to Earth to conquer it, because that’s how he knew he’d be loved. Thanos gave him the tools to do it. That was the old model from his celebrity brother and highly revered father. With them removed, all he did as a ruler was to keep Asgard in a constant state of celebration. Irresponsible, considering Asgard’s power and influence over the rest of the Kingdoms? Maybe, but definitely not malevolent. Hela was the only one who knew Odin at his prime, and there’s no reason to think she was lying about what he was like. I’m pretty sure that if Thor was locked up in a dungeon for over fifteen centuries as punishment he’d be every bit like her, maybe even worse. Thor didn’t change because of his punishment, he changed because he happened upon good people. If he was picked up by some gang who would exploit his strength and combat skills, they’d just re-enforce who he thought he should be, and just boost his ego to an insane level until he got killed by some cop.
9:50 - I think you're misunderstanding the character of Odin. Slightly. Much like you've rightly discovered with Thor, the character of Odin is multi-faceted and wears many faces. Don't forget, this old man is the same old man who lied to literally everyone in Asgard about their past. He was himself living in a fantasy world, and he admits to his own failings shortly before he dies. Odin IS a cold, ruthless general - the one who conquered the Nine Realms and held them in an absolute peace for thousands of years. The man who leads and inspires the mighty Asgardian army. No other being can make such a claim. That doesn't mean he can ONLY be a ruthless general or a wise old King. He can become both! Then take Hela, the estranged daughter who I think is parroting many of her father's ancient words back at us. She makes it clear that the peace was won through incredible violence and that the purpose of the past was conquest. That's as much a part of Odin as his son Thor is a part of him and his identity. And the story of Thor and Odin, from Odin's perspective is almost identical to the Judeo-Christian God who gives up on violence and makes a pact with humanity to ensure peace and good morality. Then his son is born and God becomes much, much more chill. You should also consider that Asgard has likely never been attacked like this in a very long time, so there is some regression from Odin as well. Responding to old emotions he thought he had laid to rest. Just some thoughts, thanks for the video!
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Should I make a Loki one?
Implicitly Pretentious yes
Yes! And maybe Black Widow as well? I think that would also be very interesting!
Yes
@@juliamyers6101 maybe wait until after her movie?
Actually YEAH, Loki is someone who feels just as trapped in his circumstances.
Don't mind me, just commenting to improve engagement so more people see this video.
Oh wow thanks, that's one of the nicest things anyone has done for me 😂
It worked!!! Just got recommended this! Thank you for your efforts! : p
Braedin Jared Well done, sir!! HA! 👍😜
Honestly this is kinda why thor in Endgame made sense.
Once all the fighting was done and there wasn't a major crisis a lot of that emotional pileup finally reached a breaking point.
I honestly don't understand those that just wanted Thor to be the badass he was in Infinity War. Infinity War was great but until the third act it just felt like a superhero blockbuster for me. I liked how Endgame portrayed its characters as flawed and broken people and reacted to their failures in defeating Thanos and losing their loved ones like how real people would react if they faced a similar situation which is why I actually liked Endgame more than Infinity War.
@@IndecisiveJR Wow! Finally someone who like Endgame more than Infinity War like me. :)
Yeah totally!
@@IndecisiveJR I was all for him hitting a breaking point with endgame, because Jesus he got a short stick even with all the short sticks.
My issue is how he's a punchline in endgame. They undercut the nice emotional moments he has during the time heist by consistently using him as a comedy character. You can't ask us to laugh at him and then cry with him back to back.
Which all sucks! He's actually my fav avenger, and he had such an interesting situation in endgame, and they treat him like a joke.
@@RenaDeles, I have this friend who was incredible when they were younger. Went out, hitch-hiked across the country, had adventures, then came back and just shattered. In and out of jail regularly, literally institutionalized, can't have a coherent conversation with them now. And there are these... moments; like embers in an ash pile, of the person I knew from before. Where they hold themselves together and you believe that this time, this time... it's different. They're back.
They're not; the job is lost in an hour, the cell phone that was just replaced is spiked in rage, the person who has a plan becomes a screaming monster hurling insults and threats. Because they can't be back. Old habits are old tools, and the old tools are what brought them into this point of their life. They have to be someone new, and that's... tragic.
Thor, as a space adventurer viking god king... kinda still really only had the two responses to problems; hit it with an axe, or get drunk. Endgame illustrated the problems with that dichotomy, but kind of also made each of those 'laugh at him' moments into tragic hero beats, too. 'cuz again; Axe or Drink. He's drunk around everyone for a very long time; quite possibly because if not, he'd have to axe.
Mjolnir representing the Old World for Thor adds a lot more meaning to when Cap lifts it in Endgame.
Honestly, I feel like they made Thor the Wolverine of the MCU during this saga. We see how he has unhealthy coping mechanisms for every horrible thing that ever happened to him. When he's lost everything, he regresses to his base form, a fighter. Hence his determination to forge a new hammer to kill the one responsible for his pain, and then when even that fails, he slinks further into his shelf, becoming a reclusive alcoholic who hides his misery behind a smile.
Endgame, in my opinion, truly made him feel vulnerable. For all the centuries he had lived, for all the battles he had fought, for all the bloodshed he had witnessed and even caused, his heart was still youngest, even if he was biologically the oldest Avenger. He was a scared child who witnessed absolute Hell and he reverted to the one thing any scared child would do. Look for his mum. And a simple few kind words from his mum was all it took to get him back on his feet. The truth about vulnerability and validation is, even if you know you're strong, it still helps when you hear someone else say it. Sure, being addicted to validation is toxic, but in moderation, and with good reason, a simple, "Hey, I know you're struggling, but it's okay. And I'm proud of you that you're still pushing through, and I believe in you." can go a long way.
This is even further strengthened by when Mjolnir flies right to his hand. In Thor's mind, he felt he had failed in every manner. He felt he failed as a son when he watched his parents die. He felt he failed as a brother as he watched Loki sacrifice himself for Thanos. He felt he failed as a king and protector when so many Asgardian refugees were killed aboard the Statesman, and lastly, he felt he failed as a warrior when he failed to aim for the head, resulting in half the universe to dust away. But Mjolnir still came flying to him. Every other time, when the hammer came to him, it boosted his hubris, making him think, "Of course I'm worthy, I'm the best.", but this time, the hammer humbles him, breathing new life and hope into his spirits, making him think, "Thank you for believing in me even when I hit rock bottom.", which in turn made him believe in himself again, but this time, not arrogantly. This is further shown by his sheer joy when Cap wielded the hammer. Thor wasn't hurt or distraught. He was elated to see a comrade be just as resolved, boosting his confidence even more, which is probably why the one running right next to Cap in the final charge, side to side, was Thor.
Even when he summons Mjolnir and Stormbreaker for the final clash with Thanos, he doesn't have a arrogant attitude about his worthiness. Because now he knows that what really mattered was the mission. He had a chance to make things genuinely right, so he becomes stern, focused, and says, "Let's kill him properly this time." For in that moment, he managed to represent the best of who he was in all his past movies. He had the will of a warrior, and the selfless determination of a king. In that moment, he was truly worthy.
Wow. Just wow. How does this not have any replies???
I wouldn't say he's more child then Wanda or vision.
Great summary and additional views. It further improves the quality of this great video essay.
Ok chill out brudda
Damn,
Dat was super awesome dude!
do more character themed videos like this, centred around specific characters instead of the movies. the characters really make the movie when it comes to the mcu, for this reason, captain america and iron man would be so interesting to explore further over their journeys.
I've got a comparison video coming up about Steve and Tony's arcs from phase 1 to 3 so it kinda fits into this structure
Where have you been? He's broken down Cap, Stark, Thanos, Parker, Quill and the other guardians, and Thor.
It's hard to separate the character from the story since the story is a course of actions they take and lessons they some times learn from it.
Venom Squanch i have seen the other vids, i just meant as more of a specific focus on the individual character over the series instead of the overall movie’s thematic motifs and ideas.
The Infinity War scene with Rocket has always been one of the most emotional scenes for me from the entire MCU, i really can’t explain it on my own but this video has made it clear why. Thanks for this!
I love how Endgame shows the breaking points of characters it shows them at there lows which symbolizes us (the viewer) making them somewhat relatable as people who go through problems in there own emotional way
Yeah totally!
But many says it boring bcoz it has less action smh
This one came at just the right time for me. My birthday is in a few days. The roughest decade of my life is coming to a close in a month and a half. I wouldn't say my trauma was on Thor's level but it did stem from one decision that I couldn't forgive myself for after. The world I knew crumbled into dust and I had to start again from maybe four to five steps from zero (good friends and family making sure it wasn't actually AT zero).
Now my life is better, if still a little rough around the edges. I feel like I'm going someplace that I actually wanted to be the whole time. In my old life, I dreamed about it but I never could get to it. Now I can...and that came from contextualizing the past as Thor did.
I'm glad you're doing better. Keep on going, man.
Oh wow, I hope you continue to recover! And thank you so very mich for sharing such an intimate feeling
You are awesome. Im happy for you to overcome your worries and to finally forgive yourself. Happy Birthday.
I don’t think it needs to be on that level to be connected to. Mythological characters, since ancient times, were always meant to have exaggerated real world problems people could attach themselves with. Fighting with your siblings is something everyone with siblings can relate to, being disillusioned with your parents can also be relatable, losing your home, losing your parents, falling from grace, letting your emotions ruin a big moment and failing everyone in the process, it can happen to anyone of us, the character just experiences these things on a different level.
It’s good to hear you managed to get through your shitty situation. I won’t ask, but if it took you a decade to get through, it must have been a nightmare. Surprisingly, Thor was an inspirational figure for me as well during a very dark three year period between 2016 and 2019, to always keep pushing, even if everything seems to be over. Much like you, out of nowhere, without warning, everything seemed to fall apart, but I kept pushing until it was fixed. It’s impressive how many people have come to see him in this way recently, considering everyone found him boring and unrelatable in the beginning.
You’ve probably heard it a lot, but a stay strong. I’ve come to realize that shitty situations are a matter of who lasts longer, you or those situations. They will get tired and stop eventually, you just have to pace yourself in order to see them exhausted. And the people who stuck by you during those times, keep them around, because they’re rare. Most people will abandon you when the going gets tough, and you’re lucky to at least have had them.
Brilliant analysis. I would like to add something though.
I think Odin in the MCU is an example of an immoral character who tried his best to escape his true nature. This adds to the themes you mentioned, and it makes sense. Back in the day, the Vikings worshipped him, and the highest form of status was killing and taking over lands. The more of that you had, the greater a man you were. That’s not looked up to anymore, and it’s also reflected by Odin, how in his old age, he no longer seeks out war and conquests, and tries to dissuade Thor from that. Thor was always seen by the Scandinavians as the peak male figure, the best a real man could hope to be, and Odin tries to shape him into an ideal man, knowing he himself isn’t one. Makes sense why he was so pissed at Loki, when he tried to do the same thing Odin used to, when he came to conquer Earth with the Chitauri, he reminded him of who he was and tried to keep his sons from becoming. Basically he saw a failure on his behalf, and he seems to handle that the same with all his children, keeping them locked away, instead of trying to help them out of it. We see that from the first Thor movie, Thor just happened to learn humility because of the people he was surrounded by, not because of his punishment. If he was taken in by some gang who found out how strong he was and used him for his skills and power, he wouldn’t learn anything, just enhance who he thought he should be. We even see that Loki’s real desire was to be loved and looked up on, and waging wars to force people into it was how he knew he could get that, because his father did it, and he was worshipped, so did his brother, and he was always the celebrity of Asgard. As soon as those influences went away for some time, all he did was put on some theater and keep Asgard in a state of celebration instead of being a malevolent war hungry dictator like Odin was.
In Thor 2, grief for his wife’s death breaks down the walls Odin has created and has him reverting back to who he really is. It does the same to Thor. Thor is however a naturally good and moral man who initially tried to be more like who his father used to be, because that’s what he was raised with and that’s what he admired. When push comes to shove, grief and pain reveal who he really is too, and that is a good and heroic man who will push with everything to the last second until he does what’s right, especially when he ends up losing far more than Odin ever did. Even when he is at the lowest of the low, when he’s fat, depressed and a complete failure, Mjolnir still finds him worthy, because of who he really is despite of all that. This wouldn’t happen with Odin, because while with age and wisdom he found out what a genuinely good king and person is, he’s too old and too far gone to do anything but pretend to be one in hopes his sons can be like that, unlike his daughter who knew him when he was what he was ashamed of.
You can stop here, but on a personal note, I have felt the same with my father. As a kid, he was this invincible, all knowing entity to me, while now that I’m older, I see him as a deeply flawed person, who did his best to make sure me and my sister were raised well. His father died in WWII, so he never really knew how to handle fatherhood. Now that he’s 80 and his facade is harder to maintain, I see his insecurities, his failings, sometimes his lack of self awareness, and despite all that, he’s still my hero who was working tirelessly with a smile on his face to make sure this is who we’d try to be. This is how I’ll remember him. Similar to Thor, he’s inspired me to always push no matter how meaningless it might seem to even try. It’s interesting how Thor has turned out to be one of the more relatable MCU heroes, even though he’s a godly figure.
Thank you so much for this video. I can't even begin to explain how much it affected me emotionally. I think Thor's journey is one that a lot of us go through where we realize that we can't always be what others want us to be, but instead we need to learn to be who we ourselves want to be.
Thanks for enjoying it! And yeah I suppose that's the unavoidable tension on human identity, finding solace between reception vs expression!
I'd love a similar video analyzing Loki's arc from the movies.
Hell yeah, I cut a lot of ideas related to Loki in this video for an eventual loki one. So that's definitely coming
I love how every one of your videos is essentially a master's thesis. XD
Lol thanks, I do try to show my cards now and just address what the essay question I set myself in the begining is 😂
They’re incredible, hey?
Your essays are ABSOLUTELY stunning. Listening to your calm words explaining something sincere and vulnerable about beloved characters makes me nostalgic and happy.
Aww thanks! That's unbelievably kind of you, and I never thought of my work that way :)
All I know is that when Thor, in Endgame, is able to call his hammer and then realizes he is still worthy, my heart breaks every time. The way Marvel has handled Thor is just amazing.
I’ve been having some identity issues as of late. My mental heath has deteriorated. In therapy I often talk about films and having recently watched Endgame I was telling my therapist how important Thor is to the MCU. This right here perfectly puts into words I could never express. I am excited for therapy next week to discuss this. Thank you for beginning clarity to me in this troubling time man.
Thor ends chaotic and Loki ends heroic. It is a beautiful ending for the two brothers 😊
Wonderful analysis by the way. Thank you!
Dude! Great to see you uploading again!
You got me out of a rut with these mcu breakdowns.
You have my thanks!!!
I always wondered why some of these movies made me emotional sometimes, and feel pumped up and ready to tackle and grab life by the neck after watching them. Whoo!
Additionally, I never thought the MCU characters could be interpreted in a traumatic way, and that they would be the perfect place to decompress.
Hard to find therapy group conversations where I'm from lol
Aww thanks! And yeah I think any character from any fiction can be looked through the lens of anything as long as you have fun doing it :)
Got me right in the feels since I've been dealing with loss and maturing into adulthood over the past 2 years. This video is a turning point for me, so thank you for putting this together-even if it took 5 accents.
Fantastic essay, this is one of the best deconstructions of Thor's character arc I've seen. I learned a lot from it and have a deeper appreciation of him now. Thank you
"A private sort of freedom". Great work man.
Aww thanks! I hope it wasn't too corny!
@@ImplicitlyPretentious Not at all. Thor's arc in the MCU is very interesting when you analyze it, and you did a superb job at laying it out for us to understand. In a time where everything is rushed and superficial, content like this is truly refreshing. Thanks bro.
Damn you recommendations, filling thirty minutes of my life with quality content.
I've been watching you for a while now, but I just wanted to say you've quickly become my favourite RUclipsr when it comes to video essays. The way you deconstruct the characters and their stories is amazing! Please never stop 🙌
This was so good, i don't think i saw one that integrated the whole films, neither such a good understanding of the themes
Thanks, man. This video was exactly what I needed to calm down a bit.
Keep doing these videos, they're amazing.
Oh wow, thanks and I'm flattered that I could help!
I’m with you on the accent changing every 5 seconds-mine does the same thing haha
Aww high five!
I legit just spent my down time over the past 4 days thinking about how much Thor had been through before Endgame, and it made me really sad, but also kind of hopeful. Thor Tony Jaa’ed for so long. He took the hit and got strong from it until he couldn’t take any more hits. Thor is life lesson for me to accept when I need to deal with my pain and get help, not just try to power through it.
12:38 that mjolnir pronunciation was nuts
Man I always download these videos to listen to while biking about and it's such a lovely time
Thank you
You are my favorite film analysis channel.
suntzupup by faaaaar
Wow that's incredibly kind of you, I didn't think anyone would click on my channel let alone like it, so thanks! :)
Easily the most thorough and detailed at exploring the deeper themes in movies.
Definitely should cover Cap’s MCU journey. First Avenger to Endgame he has a sensational arc
Yeah I've got a plan right now to go through and compare Steve and Tony's journey which includes going covering their arcs from phase 1 to 3, so it's sort of going to happen
@@ImplicitlyPretentious Didn't you already cover his arc through his trilogy and first half of the Avengers quadrilogy? I cannot wait to hear your analysis on his arc through Endgame. Especially the passing of his shield.
It breaks my brain a little when I consider how Odin managed to gaslight his entire kingdom so thoroughly. And in Endgame when Thanos says he's going to have to kill everyone so that they can go into the future unburdened by the past, I immediately wondered if Odin came to the same conclusion. There are interesting parallels between those two scattered throughout the movies.
This made me cry, i am depressed and i feel for his story, thanks for this video
So excited for the Vision one
Though a lot of these characters’ arches aren’t over yet, like vision and Thor
Thank you for this writing and video. I had to watch it twice to fully understand and appreciate it. And just to let you know. This video has helped me personally in knowing my self as a person, having experience traumatic events and building the self throughout my journey in life. The way you deconstructed the characters gave meaning to their traits and personality to a degree that is relatable to myself. I come back to your videos like this whenever I feel down in life, so I hope this video shall never be taken down ever. You've helped me more than you can ever know. Thank you.
Im only commenting to add to your engagements, this channel deserves millions of subscribers, this content is quality and well thought out, its crazy you havent even broke 100k subs, just keep grinding, the good content will shine through
I've thought of how Steve and Tony develop from selfishness to selflessness (and vice versa) but haven't thought about how Thor becomes free as well. Very well done.
Man this is a fantastic video some people think that the mcu ruined Thor but I've always thought that Thor was changing like all people do what happens when they fighting is done and all your left with is lost and regret hell i might eat and drank to fill the hole in my chest Thors a god so he can do that for ever
This is why the argument of the MCU isn't cinema rubs me the wrong way. Yes they are on the surface dumb action movies, but under the surface they are character movies. You can analyze every single character in the MCU, from the main Advengers to The Guardians, every character is interesting and complex because they go through multiple arcs throughout multiple films.
AND it tells a larger thematic story about changing times. I keep saying that the Infinity Saga is ultimately about the decline and fall of American hegemony and influence, using Xandar, Asgard and Hala as occasional substitutes. But it usually points out how comically powerless the world's mightiest military and foremost secret organization created to deal with the unusual is against the actual threat (first seen with The Destroyer in Thor 1, in fact). I wonder if someone like Marty Scorcese, who was a NYC film professor who used westerns to teach classes, subconsciously zeroed in on this subtext and that forms part of his disdain.
I feel like a lot of people under value the MCU. I can understand not liking it, but I feel calling them generic dumb blockbusters is wrong. First off, let's look at most of modern day blockbusters and action movies, such as Hobbs and Shaw, Transformers, or Venom, and the difference between them and MCU films are night and day. The thing that makes the MCU great is that they're character movies, they are why these movies work. The second thing is that superhero films have come a long way and I think it should be acknowledged that the MCU played a hand in that. The success of superhero cinema has lead a more diversified genre, now we have teen comedies and space epics and lower budget rated R movies. If someone in 2009 said these things would happen and that the genre would movies about a talking tree and raccoon and be number one in pop culture, that person would have been laughed at for stating something so ludicrous.
Yeah, I think time will be the ultimate judge though, art, culture and stories live and die based on its relevance to the human condition. And even if these marvel movies isn't considered cinema now, give it some time and people's ability to talk about Thors trauma or Star Lord's nostalgia will have some more artistic credibility, if that makes sense
@Snehil Shrey They are character movies in the way that that's what matters most for those movies, it's what they mostly focus on and it's why they work.
@@awesomesharkhand1876 agreed with everything you just said
I am glad this was made before Thor love and thunder!
Fantastic analysis. Thor became so beautifully complex and his conclusion in Endgame was just wonderful.
I am always so amazed by your analysis and the overall structure of videos. The format is exactly like the analytical essays I write in school, yet yours is more compelling and on a higher level. My role model :)
13:16
Narrator: "And Thor is able to tightly hold his grip on his life by a sense of romance. Not necessarily with Jane but with-" * shows Thor with Loki*
Me: !!
Narrator: "-everything."
You almost got me there. I don't know if that was just you making a joke but you almost got me hoping that you'd discuss Thor's complicated relationship with his brother.
So I know you lament talking about trauma theory all the time, but this is important stuff. I relate to this a lot and I re-watched the scene with Frigga last night after I watched this and it was really emotional for me. I brought it up with my therapist and it was useful for us to discuss it. I appreciate the Joseph Campbell stuff, too. We are all going through our own journey (heroic or no) and these things are ultimately relatable. Since I’m dealing with my own trauma, understanding what these characters do to get through theirs helps me to see, perhaps, a way to get through mine. Glad I found your channel, I’ve subscribed and shared this with friends. I appreciate the more intellectual look at this stuff, it makes me feel smart. ;-) Keep up the good work.
"The future hasn't been kind to you, has it?"
Just that. Wow.
First time a video essay has brought me to tears for hitting so close to home.
One of the best video essay I have seen on Thor. Made me tear up at parts. Looking forward to more such videos!
Easily one of the most brilliant pieces of media that I have consumed. Thank you @Implicitly Pretentious.
I cried. This is therapy for me. You are so articulate.
Absolutely unreal. I always really enjoyed Thor's character and thought his movies were a pretty entertaining branch of the Marvel universe, but holy shit man, I just developed a whole new dimension of admiration for this character & his narrative in it's entirety.
Thank you, so much.
Not sure if anyone mentioned it in the comments, but a video about Nebula's journey would be interesting as well. She quietly has one of the best arcs in the MCU. Loved this video, and hope you follow up with one about Loki.
I am unable to express it through words but in short, your breakdown on this is amazing. All your videos are great but this hit me right in the feels. Thank you for putting in this together.
i love your videos, and i really appreciate this one. Thor's character arc is the hardest to see clearly but this explains it beautifully. thank you.
Marvel's Thor is the world's most successful and longest running fanfiction: change my mind
That's not what fanfiction means. Also: The Aeneid is the world's most successful and longest running fanfiction
@@paullouis3941 It seems to me they were fans of norse mythology, and they used the lore, locations and characters to create new stories
Marvel basically appropriated Norse mythology to sell comics. Fanfic or corporate repurposing?
How about LOTR? I'd argue that could also be considered a fanfiction based on norse myth, even more so than Marvel's Thor. It's been out there for much longer, and is still being revisited in many ways. Maybe not as financially sucessful, but it surely had a much greater impact on culture in general, having spawned D&D and many others. About the Aeneid, I don't know if you can consider anything that predates the 16th century fanfiction, as most surviving literature from before those times that I know of didn't have that kind of tone to it. They shared a common mythos, so they had common elements and ideas, but one wasn't based on the other directly.
Could The Divine Comedy and Paradise Lost be in the discussion?
It doesn't matter how many times I watch this damn video, I always come away from it feeling like I've learned something new.
Super-awesome. And love your lisp as well :)
Aww thanks! I think you maybe the only one 😂
Your essays are amazing! I love the break down of these stories. Definitely keep making these you do a fantastic job! Thank you
Honestly out of all the mcu characters Thor is the one who actually uses comedy to hide his actual feelings
7:03 Corny or not, don't say it. If you believe in what you're saying, you will convince, or at least intrigue, someone. Great content, great channel. You helped me see in the MCU a narrative wealth I did not suspect. Thanks I. P.
That clip to start the video is one of my fave parts of Infinity War.
This is a really fantastic video. I've enjoyed all of them that I've watched, but you really have improved your craft. Keep it up!
Thanks! That's incredibly relieving to hear because it was so stressful editing something that's 3 times longer than the usual video in the same amount of time, so I'm glad it measured up! :)
Bless your soul. This was beautiful. Thank you for making these!
Aww thank you so much, that's incredibly flattering!
Let's get that algorithm to keep paying attention to this video.. I love it so heckin much btw. Thor is one of my absolute favourite characters in the MCU
it is a CRIME that u dont have more views and subs, man. thank you for this video.
By far one of your best
This is so beautifully done, sir.. thank you. Im personally having a trauma in the past, its really hard to see the future when there is no future at all. But now, im free.. Thank you
Don't know if you will see this but your content has really helped me with my cptsd. Thank you
This was beautiful, and I would greatly appreciate and enjoy a similar video on Loki.
This is a very good video essay, I was hooked from the start and loved your analysis.
Excellent video on Thor
Thanks! And also thanks for still watching my videos! :)
Our identities are constructs, built on our perceived relation to others...
It reminds me of a quote I like, "We measure new ideas only in relation to those we have already mastered."
We know ourselves only in relation to how we view others, how we compare, how we fit in.
And seeing the present through the lens of the past, versus seeing the past through the lens of the present, that really struck me too. I definitely revere The Greatest Generation. I even went so far as to once ask my grandfather (a WWII veteran), "How are you so good?" I occasionally hear others scoff, or even speak disdainfully about The Greatest Generation, and I do not understand, and get pretty defensive. I idealize my past as well, holding on to regrets, never moving past some mistakes, even still wondering what could yet be with the girl I loved in high school, despite not having seen her in more than a decade.
Listening to your exposition, I feel like I am Thor. I relate to him, and understand him differently. I still idolize Cap, but Thor is an achievable level for me.
I consider myself an idealist, and struggle with realism, to a fault. Looking at the past from the perspective of the present may help with that. I wonder if that perspective -- looking at the present from the past or past through the present -- is an effective way to categorize idealists and realists. I wonder also, how best to consider the future.
Thank you for broadening my mind, for stretching it to a new horizon, and giving me much to think about.
even though this arc wasn't planned from the beginning, it ended up working perfectly!
This was really, really good.
That was fantastic dude, really enjoy your videos! Thanks for making them!
am I crying over a videoessay? yes.
was it fair that you used sweet piano music? no.
This vídeo is everything i need right now, thank you so much!
Oh wow, I'm flattered I could help. Thanks! :)
You are a genuine genius!
Aww thanks! That's incredibly flattering!
This is my first video of yours and I absolutely love it
the endings of your videos are actually peak media
28:48 Or as Scorsese calls it, Cinema
exactly. cinema is about following a character, learning about that character, grow with that person, care about that person, and join that person into its personal journey. i love scorsese but he's kind of being a snob towards these films.
thevoid99 Scorsese although my favourite director, is indeed being a snob. These movies I believe are glossed over by many because just like most of Scorsese’s critics they decided to take it at face value and not realize the insight to the meaning or ideology of his characters. He’s being what he hates someone who sees them for what they are: superhero movies, but in a sense and a much larger philosophy are just as good at character building over a period of time as Scorsese himself.
Right? Endgame, Wandavision, FATWS & Loki are all character driven
Odin laughing oddly is so unnerving
Thor was always my favorite in the MCU, this really articulates why
Great work and a really nice summary of all this material. Well done.
Great job of really breaking down the character!
Thank you for making me cry
Aww thanks for clicking in the first place!
When ever I watch your videos I never understand cause of the bug word but its entertaining an does teach me big words so thanks
So like just because its 2020 and I think we all deserve for something good to happen... can we get a spin off series entierly devoted to Freda?
Loved the essay you made about Thor. Naaw you still have accent to me. 😁
This was so well written omg
When someone tells me the MCU is nothing but kiddie popcorn flicks, I just walk away. I can't waste time conversing with these 'adults'.
Can you point me toward a scene where Thor weeps for his fallen brothers? I'll wait.
Thank you ..that was lovely
Amazing video encapsulating a hidden character arc over 7 movies.
The "Can I go home now?" line when it was shown in this video was much more sad than I remember
This is so beautifully edited.
When you have goosebumps from the opening 30 seconds you know it's gonna be goood
I think the third Thor movie was more centered around the theme of imperialism (the small ship they got away in had the colors of the aboriginal flag after all) and how we as a society need to recognize the horror committed by others before even if we've gained something from it (aka the "Where do you think all this gold came from?" line) and how we have to build a better future even if we need to burn it all down to be build back up.
Someone else said it already but yeah you kinda got Odin's character wrong. He IS a ruthless general and the way he raised his kids scarred them. He told stories of "great conquest" and victory and about killing frostgiants while Loki, a frostgiant, was right there. The way he spoke of war made both think that that was the one way to be truly great and to also please their father. So when Loki finds out he's a frostgiant he remembers the stories, connects that to the way Odin always prefered Thor, comes to the conclusion that something about him is inherently flawed and that combined with the glorification of war + his own pride + a bit of a superiority complex gets him to try to commit actual genocide because he got into his dumb head that that is the only way to be worthy. Thor was raised with those violent stories too so that combined, again with all the things i mentioned with Loki, (not the jottun part ofc) leads him to almost do the same. Of course unlike Loki, Thor was removed from that enviorment and shown one where he had to reevaluate his life, like you said, while Loki stayed and decided to do anything and everything to get his way and prove to his father that he is worthy of love.
Long story short: Odin is a bad dad. He did the same thing to Thor and Loki as he did with Hela but they got their worldview shaken up before anything worse than New York 2012 happened.
My theory is that Odin is at heart an evil man who did his best to get away from his nature, while Thor is at heart a genuinely good man, who tried to be what his dad used to be. That’s why Odin was so angry that Thor did what he did with the Frost Giants. It’s kind of reflective of the Scandinavians who worshipped these gods back in the day. Death and glory were synonymous, but when they found out a way to live peacefully and didn’t need to take loot from other countries with better environments, they abandoned those ideals.
Notice how Loki with those influences went down to Earth to conquer it, because that’s how he knew he’d be loved. Thanos gave him the tools to do it. That was the old model from his celebrity brother and highly revered father. With them removed, all he did as a ruler was to keep Asgard in a constant state of celebration. Irresponsible, considering Asgard’s power and influence over the rest of the Kingdoms? Maybe, but definitely not malevolent.
Hela was the only one who knew Odin at his prime, and there’s no reason to think she was lying about what he was like. I’m pretty sure that if Thor was locked up in a dungeon for over fifteen centuries as punishment he’d be every bit like her, maybe even worse. Thor didn’t change because of his punishment, he changed because he happened upon good people. If he was picked up by some gang who would exploit his strength and combat skills, they’d just re-enforce who he thought he should be, and just boost his ego to an insane level until he got killed by some cop.
This is so good. I know I'm going to rewatch this so many times!!!
I love your video essays!
9:50 - I think you're misunderstanding the character of Odin. Slightly. Much like you've rightly discovered with Thor, the character of Odin is multi-faceted and wears many faces. Don't forget, this old man is the same old man who lied to literally everyone in Asgard about their past. He was himself living in a fantasy world, and he admits to his own failings shortly before he dies. Odin IS a cold, ruthless general - the one who conquered the Nine Realms and held them in an absolute peace for thousands of years. The man who leads and inspires the mighty Asgardian army. No other being can make such a claim. That doesn't mean he can ONLY be a ruthless general or a wise old King. He can become both! Then take Hela, the estranged daughter who I think is parroting many of her father's ancient words back at us. She makes it clear that the peace was won through incredible violence and that the purpose of the past was conquest.
That's as much a part of Odin as his son Thor is a part of him and his identity. And the story of Thor and Odin, from Odin's perspective is almost identical to the Judeo-Christian God who gives up on violence and makes a pact with humanity to ensure peace and good morality. Then his son is born and God becomes much, much more chill. You should also consider that Asgard has likely never been attacked like this in a very long time, so there is some regression from Odin as well. Responding to old emotions he thought he had laid to rest. Just some thoughts, thanks for the video!
I like that crazy Odin from the Dark world. "you're birth rriiteeaa was Terre diieeeeiiiii "