One thing that I think could have benefited from more focus is Viziepop's lack of affirmative morality. They don't actually - have - morals or virtues except for, perhaps, marital fealty. Both the "protagonists" and "antagonists" are crude, lewd, violent, sexually debauched, and generally very low discipline, high time preference, self indulgent or self righteous people. Charlie, for example, is constantly portrayed as extremely naive for expecting the best of others (demons, humans, and angels) even when redemption seems to be a single act of self sacrifice away, with Heaven being just as sexual, crass, and violent as Hell. Moreover, they depict allegedly evil individuals as mostly just misunderstood, mentally ill, or lonely. Even Lucifer mocks Adam for repeatedly cuckolding the man, hardly Adam's fault, with Adam being the only character shone to genuinely suffer for those he cares about. Ultimately being humiliated, mocked, and killed, despite showing loyalty and care to his followers, who are literally angels purging the overflow of Hell so it doesn't flood the Earth, and even then they are butchered mercilessly for mostly cheap points.
I totally get where you are comming from, but from my perspective that kinda misses the theme of hazbin hotel. It is about a system that is broken, Adam isn't the antagonist because he is in charge of the purge, but because he stands in the way of reforming a broken and inherently unfair system. Snake guys sacrifice and ressurrection in heaven, is meant to vindicate Charlie in her assertion that redemption is possible. As for Alistair I really don't think he is even meant to be a devil figure, although I am actually having a bit of trouble categorizing his character, except that he likely serves as a litterary tool for the writer, as he is chaotic and can move the story in any direction. Although it is a while since I watched it, and your comment have made me wanna go back and rewatch it with a more critical view. Perhaps I will be back here to eat my words 😊.
Hard to believe there's a whole video on writing Devil figures without mentioning The Screwtape Letters. That book perfectly encapsulates all that is bad about demons and devils really well. For those unawares, it's a book containing letters from one demon, Screwtape, advising his young nephew Wormwood on how to drag a human, dubbed "the Patient", to Hell. There's so much in that book that describes the psychology of Hell that I can't really encapsulate it in a comment, but the line that really haunts me comes from one of the title demon's victims. Upon arriving in Hell after long succumbing to Screwtape's machinations, the man says, "I see now that I did neither what I should have done nor what I wanted to do." On a side note, glad you're doing okay and have support. Happy to see that you still find the strength to make videos!
I went over that in the discord. I find the screw tape letters to be useful but more on the tempting side of things rather than fulfilling the whole check list. Thank you for watching.
Never heard of the book. Saw it is by C.S. Lewis and dedicated to J.R.R. Tolkien. Straight up called my local bookshop, tomorrow 10 AM i can pick it up. Thanks for that hint ❤
Honestly Clive Barker did the Screwtape Letters better than CS Lewis in the second story of Books of Blood, just like Chesterton the problem with CS Lewis is that if you share his beliefs the books are great but if you don’t they become grating
@@Karamazov9 I haven't read Barker, but I disagree with your point about Lewis. I actually first read Screwtape Letters as an atheist and wouldn't become religious again for years. Even then, I'm not exactly Christian. It's also one of his most popular books even among secular and non-Christian demographics. So it seems like it works well for more than just people of Lewis' strain of Christianity.
Dear Mjfrkevtkuju, Here’s a puppy possessed by a hellhound. He eats the souls of the innocent and likes bathing in the blood of children. Also, he loves head pats. Sincerely, Satan P.S.-I lied, I’m not sending you anything, dipshit. Go to Hell, I’ll see ya there!
I took this title way too literally and thought it would just be 10 seconds of you sounding out the word like it was a Sesame Street segment. But this is way better! Thank you for continuing to create awesome content in the midst of your treatment - it is by no means necessary but a testament to your commitment and passion towards discussing dark fantasy. My hat’s off to you sir, your videos helped me through some tough times of my own :)
I love this comic/webcomic and my mind Mandela Effect "Himself" name into "I". The story states that the less names, the more powerful the devil, so the shortest name would be "I", so the most powerful devil. But yes, devils in that story are interesting bunch. "Do as Thou wilt"
Related, but shout out to an ongoing Manhwa I am reading with a Satan-like horror trickster monster protagonist: "The Fangs That Pierce the Heart." I am not sure how many boxes Iblonde checks off in your book, but they do horrifying and mortifying things you expect an unrepentant, manipulative demon to do. For #1, we do get told the backstory of Beliel's current meatsuit. Don't know if there is a genre or term for a horror story where, rather than the protagonist struggling against a monster, the focus is on rooting for the side characters to realize the growing dread and somehow survive the insidious calamity that is technically the protagonist, while she tiptoes around the church, going from peasant to presumably "nobly" usurping the crown by the meatsuit's birthright as part of the original promise. By the time she set the ___ on fire, I knew that grieving mother who wanted better for her daughter (and in part "miffed" at the corrupt church and state) had summoned an archdemon, a secret harbinger of woe for both innocent and guilty that get caught up with Beliel. (I should have expected that in Ch.1 when Iblonde was caught eating the village horses). You probably know some better stories, and Manhwa art may not be your cup (mostly when art quality dips at points... at some points... I think I remember...), but it is generally good, conveying that not running away as soon as Iblonde smiles at you was the worst life decisions you could have ever made (par with any secretly Satan characters). Similar kind of hebegebees Makima from Chainsawman gives.
The radio demon is a bad Satan, when he has a dueling dads battle against Lucifer. Lol (Satan as a figure is better served by maybe by Adam as he at least tries to tempt Charlie's GF to work for heaven)
I do respectfully disagree when it comes to what is a faithful adaptation to Satan as a concept because at his core he is a rebel by choice he is the first rebel pride is the first sin which was committed in heaven and despite every single opportunity he holds the middle finger up and says no. And he is the greatest evil bar none no competition and when he gets somebody to fall he congratulates them on being strong like oh you're strong for rebelling against good good is stupid. That's the fateful adaptation to Satan but honestly that doesn't get people to think he's all that cool. The horror of him being an immortal cruel sadistic Spirit really is not expressed very well in a lot of tellings. And I would argue one of the best sources to get a fraction of inspiration for writing like that would be interviews with exorcists.
Great video, Sauron in The Lord of The Rings trilogy is a Satan figure as well because his evil ring makes Smeagol became evil and became Gollum and at the end Smeagol/Gollum is who makes Sauron ring be destroyed in ending of the books/movies.
Without any spoilers, in the Netflix animation Twilight of the Gods episode The Scapegoat God, there is an amazing monologue by Loki about the nature of his godhood, how he exists so others could blame him for their actions. I think that's the tragedy of Satan, of course we are human and what we always do is humanize abstract concepts and Christianity did it extremely well. In my eyes, the disgusted/tired Devil figure is the top. When a writer can achieve to convey that a being's involvement in humanity comes from utter loathing, yet pride is what keeps it trying and trying is when I'm more than satisfied with the devil. Brennan Lee Mulligan's Asmodeus monologue is also absolutely amazing. The Hungarian drama Tragedy of Man also depicts a Lucifer who tries to show the folly of man to Adam not to punish him but to open his eyes to the cruelty of an ignorant god.
Fun bit of Slade-based trivia, and how it relates to self inflicted punishment through their own actions. In season one, Slade dabbles in a bit of magic when an opportunity presents itself. A pair of demigod brothers visit town and make a nuisance of themselves, and Slade eggs them on, and uses their magic to empower some sort of demonic ritual to summon a fire elemental. The symbol used in this ritual, we later learn, is the Mark of Scath. A symbol of Trigon. Then Slade dies in season two, and we learn in season four his soul apparently went to Trigon. I think we can guess why he went there. Yep, the guy literally damned his soul to Hell by dabbling with demon magic he clearly didn't understand, just to unleash a monster of the week on the Titans.
There are times the way My Hero Academia handles All For One / Shigaraki that makes me think they were leaning on the "pure Devil" elements, though it may still be more comfortable as a megalomaniacal person-cancer with a penchant for cult leader leanings to lure people in. Great video as always! 🍻
“Better to rule in Hell than be ruled in Heaven. ….What matter where, so long as I remain the same?” A massive ego is key. 6-8 are basically just the same rule applying to everyone. “You reap what you sow.” So satan always eventually reaps rebellion. This is why he looks like Voldemort under the bench at the train station by the end. Slight tangent, but you mentioned him. This video brings to mind some the reasons I think Hellsing’s Alucard is undergoing apotheosis to become the Angel of Death in the flesh, not Satan or the antichrist. Just some random thoughts. Big fan of your videos. Good luck in your battle. Me and my father just remodeled a kitchen and he’s been beating stage 4 prostate cancer for over 7 years now.
"A mind not to be changed by place or time. The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a heav'n of hell, a hell of heav'n.” John Milton Paradise Lost
I kinda half meant it at first, but Adam in Hazbin Hotel does hit most of the criteria. 1. Always masked, not initially known as the one doing the raids, and his raids aren't known to everyone. 2. First man - You all came from my n****! Thinks he should be worshipped by the demons. 3. Tempts angels to go on raids that not everyone in heaven would approve of and tempts the main angel lady to allow it. 4. As original sinner, kills demons who's sin path he started. 5. Hell is forever! 6. Killed in a raid he shouldn't have been doing when he could have walked away but had to play victim / complain they should have been his to do whatever he wanted with them. 7. Not at all redeemed, and even causes "redemption" of someone that was trying to stop him. 8. Destroyed when he could have left due to his arrogance and self pitying.
Let me begin by thanking you for this video. I subscribed due to the Conan lore videos, which are excellent, but i enjoyed this one as well. That said, I have a different take on "the satan." In the Hebrew Bible, "satan" is not a name, but a title, and includes "the" in front of it (the Hebrew equivalent, of course). Meaning "the adversary". It's rather like the quote from "Rebel without a Cause", when asked, "Hey Johnny, what are you rebelling against?" And he answers, "Whaddya got?" The satan is anti-everything. So, G-d has a divine council (why Genesis 1 uses "we" as a pronoun with G-d, because he's not alone.) The satan is part of that council. You can see that in the Book of Job where they are called "sons of G-d". "The satan" also means "accuser" - he reminds G-d of the flaws of mankind. Think of him as the prosecuting attorney of the Divine council. Somewhere along the way, the story shifted so that instead of merely collecting evidence against our innocence, he began tempting is (perhaps to gain more evidence). By the 1st century CE, probably due to the influence of Zoroastrianism during the Babylonian captivity, the job title became an individual -- and the prince of darkness. Anyway, you were aiming for Milton's Satan more than the historic ha'satan, but i thought I'd share. Love your videos. Thanks again
I really enjoy this type of deep dive, thank you for embarking on it. I originally started listening to your Conan deep dives but I can tell you have the type of mind and introspection to tackle these types of concepts. While I didn't know what type of Satan you were going to talk about (there are at least as many types of Satan's as there are gods), I have been searching for material that divorces our human perspectives and biases from the divine. Too often we receive illustrations of gods and devils who are nothing more than humans with horns or angel wings. While there must be echoes of divinity to be found in our material environment, there must also be the unknowable, the terrifying otherness of which these entities are made of. I am broaching of course on Cosmic Horror, but I feel like the road must meander there, eventually. All the best written representations of God (the undying fire in the bush who says "I am that I am") paired with the best representations of an "adversary" to that God (the Enochian fallen angels who bring the primordial fire to humanity), represented humanities attempt to illustrate concepts that are beyond themselves. Misguided ramblings aside, I am sending you digital strength in what must be a difficult time. Thanks for the enjoyment you have brought to myself and many others, friend.
My favorite version is the Devil or a Devil was “Legend,” with Darkness played by Tim Curry. Raphael in BG3 is close second and Viggo Morrison in “The Omen,” was creepy.
Satan isn't punishing anyone for anything. That's dualistic gnostic concept, foreign to Christianity in every way. The Holy Fathers don't describe him as any sort of punisher, but the ultimate brat, that didn't get what he wanted, and is trying to drag all of us down with him. Satan is complex. Far less complex than he thinks he is, but still complex, and therefore I would have to go into a long theological rant about him, but the comment section really isn't the place for that. Go ask your nearest Eastern Orthodox priest about it.
I loved this one would you be willing to do an inverse and talk about well written Jesus fugures? Also, I'm so excited for the Phantom knights lore breakdown!
Haven’t watched the video yet, so I’ll leave this here as a personal footnote, but one of the things that make a ‘satan’ character has to be their compelling nature. That he not only beckons to your lower vices, but also your higher virtues; Seeking ‘true’ and compelling justification for his actions, beyond intelligent malice, and seeks it from YOU.
one of my favorite shows back in the 90s was Millenium, and there was one episode titled Somehow satan got behind me. It didn't feature the Devil, but it featured four demons hanging out at a donut shot talking about the egocentric nature and worthlessness of humankind and how they share their methods of damning Human souls, where one demon says he doesn't do anything anymore because Humanity has naturally damned their own souls in modern times without a Demon to tempt them. That was my favorite episode and it kind of gave off Mark Twain's Letters from the Earth vibes where in that story the Devil explains to the angel Gabriel of the hubris and egotism of all of Humanity believing they are the most important thing in creation to the Creator's eye. I like stories like that, where a Demon shows the hypocrisy of Humanity and Humanity is worse than the Demonic themselves. It's something that I also would use in dark-telling RPG games like Kult or World of Darkness.
What if the following characters from the Hyperboan age where reborn in Westeros all in the year 270 AC thats 12 years before Roberts Rebellion. Yasmina is as the fifth child and second daughter of Lord Rickard and Lady Lyarra Stark the younger sister of Brandon Eddrad, Lyanna and Benjen. Conan as an Umber the younger brother of the Great Jon Umber, Belite as Manderly the third child of Lord Wyman, Thoth Armon as a Martel the youngest brother of Doran, Elia and Obyren, Valyria as a Hightower and Zenobia as a Tully the daughter of Hoster and youngest sibling of Catelyn, Lysa and Edmure.
Nefarious was a recent film that nailed it, I think, as far as Evil Spirits are concerned, brilliant acting. If you watch it, remember my comment when you see the hamburguer scene (you will know when you see it xD)
My favorite represantation of devil, but not Satan by your definition is Lucifer from Sandman that later get hus own series. Lucifer by Mike Carey is glorious and the show has nothing in common with it, they are two completly different stories with different characters, only names are similar.
If you are writing from a position of moral Nihilism and emotional rebellion against the possibility of moral positions and against moralising as a concept, then you will tend to write Satan figures just like they did in Hazbin Hotel, which is, as a parody of the symbolic template you are using, in their case, Christianity. If you are writing a Satan figure that way, and parodying the symbolic template, you will have to invert the moral poles (good and evil), evil is not evil, by necessity good is not good, and then, by a kind of archetypal irony, you become possessed of the Satan symbol as defined by the symbolic template you are attempting to parody, by virtue of attempting to parody it. It is so frequent to see writers and artists smashing their heads against symbols they do not understand...
I actually made Satan and Lucifer one entity in my metasetting. He's one of primordial beings along with Michael Morningstar(leader of angels of light), Metatron Supreme Order(forefather of Law conception) and Azathoth Primordial Chaos(The first creature in existence and main source of creation), and Karma the Absolute(Pillar of Harmony and Balance). One of things that make Earth in my metasetting important is that this is world where Michael and Satan locked in eternal struggle between each other. And just incase in my Meta Jesus, Adam, Eve, Lilith, Kain, Abel, Noah and Abraam is real along with pagan gods(Thor, Horus, Perun and Zeus for example) and some mythic characters like Yellow Emperor and Baron Samedi, heck even ALIENS(Grey and little green men are one species) is real deal too. The main thing is that Earth is probably the world with the greatest number of diverse races, not even the metaempires don't have such a variaty of species, and they have a friggin universes as provinces! But back to Satan, to put short he's pretty much the same as in bible but he fell not because of jealousy to humans, but because of Azathoth temptations but instead of becoming the puppet of Primordial Chaos, Lucifer turned into new element which embodies the evil, and because of that Angels called him Satan which means "enemy", and because of this enemy angels were divided, into Supreme angels(followers of their forefather Metatron) and Light Angels(Followers of Michael, who took his brother Lucifer Moniker). The thing is that in Hell(which is one of closest planes to Earth) Lucifer is sitting while waiting and Gathering forces for Apocalypse, which is considered an actual massive Renaissance for Earth it's closest planes and Alt.Versions, in which it's diverse aspects are gonna combine into new, one world, yet he still gathers enough power to crush any demonlord who dares to challenge him(it's honestly my joke about all that Demon Kings from anime and manga, like they brag about their title/status but they are nothing to one true Demon King and master - Lucifer).
So having looked through the comments and not seeing this mentioned; you're right about the Radio Demon, but for a much more compelling reason than you said, or might realize. This is not surprising and is also really legitimate to miss, if the show rubbed you as wrong as it seems to have. One, there's morality all over Hazbin Hotel, and it is not subtle. The clear point of the whole show is that the universe and systems they're in operate under different rules than even the people at the heads of those systems realize. Snake-boy is the show's thesis, its way of observing that good and evil are, actually, very simple: "evil is merely an abundance of selfishness, and a lack of empathy. Good then, is an absence of selfishness, and an abundance of empathy". And it's not one act from him, but his whole arc that makes this point. And is supposed to raise the question then of why obviously terrible, or obviously good, people are in the places and positions they're in. The *Radio* Demon though. He's trying to play the Satan angle straight, and he's not subtle about it either. Every decision he makes, every action, is self-serving. He's acting friendly with all these idiots because there's something in it for him, some plan he's pursuing. His every action is driven by self-interest...until it's not. And when he clocks that spending so much time with a pack of what amounts to Spiky Care Bears With Issues has affected him this way, has him doing things that are not part of The Plan, it nearly gives him a mental break. He's not a Satan figure, as you defined it, because he is a direct *subversion* of that exact definition. Someone trying to use other people to further his own goals, who ends up changed for the better despite his wants by those same people. Also, hope you continue on the mend. Following your community posts is like watching a man wrestle with a bear, and your continued determination in that analogy is inspiring.
Its even older than that. Speaking as a jew. The hindu collective is pretty fascinating. Along with Indus river valley and early African folk lore. An amalgamation of all of those would be super neat. Generational perspective give light to some grimdark ideas.
Dear Satan, I've been really good and hope you can get me a new iphone, an iwatch, and better internet service. Thanky you very much and Happy Halloween!
Hey man. I'm a Satanist and I see Satan as a figure of light, hope, and justice. I see yaveh as an unjust tyrant. Both in the symbolic sense. I just want to wish you well. Chemotherapy is brutal. You don't have to make videos if resting would be better. Heal well. I look forward to watching more of your videos when you're feeling better. 🌞
One thing that I think could have benefited from more focus is Viziepop's lack of affirmative morality.
They don't actually - have - morals or virtues except for, perhaps, marital fealty. Both the "protagonists" and "antagonists" are crude, lewd, violent, sexually debauched, and generally very low discipline, high time preference, self indulgent or self righteous people. Charlie, for example, is constantly portrayed as extremely naive for expecting the best of others (demons, humans, and angels) even when redemption seems to be a single act of self sacrifice away, with Heaven being just as sexual, crass, and violent as Hell.
Moreover, they depict allegedly evil individuals as mostly just misunderstood, mentally ill, or lonely. Even Lucifer mocks Adam for repeatedly cuckolding the man, hardly Adam's fault, with Adam being the only character shone to genuinely suffer for those he cares about. Ultimately being humiliated, mocked, and killed, despite showing loyalty and care to his followers, who are literally angels purging the overflow of Hell so it doesn't flood the Earth, and even then they are butchered mercilessly for mostly cheap points.
This is easily the best comment/review I’ve heard of Hazbin Hotel! Pinned!
@@GrimDarkHalfOff I wonder what our boy Conan would tell Charlie
Thanks man. I watched the show and casually liked it, but it wasn't, uh, fully fleshed out.
Still, glad you're getting better, however slowly!
And I'm talking about Hazbin not being fleshed out. Just wanna be clear xd
I totally get where you are comming from, but from my perspective that kinda misses the theme of hazbin hotel.
It is about a system that is broken, Adam isn't the antagonist because he is in charge of the purge, but because he stands in the way of reforming a broken and inherently unfair system. Snake guys sacrifice and ressurrection in heaven, is meant to vindicate Charlie in her assertion that redemption is possible.
As for Alistair I really don't think he is even meant to be a devil figure, although I am actually having a bit of trouble categorizing his character, except that he likely serves as a litterary tool for the writer, as he is chaotic and can move the story in any direction.
Although it is a while since I watched it, and your comment have made me wanna go back and rewatch it with a more critical view.
Perhaps I will be back here to eat my words 😊.
Hard to believe there's a whole video on writing Devil figures without mentioning The Screwtape Letters. That book perfectly encapsulates all that is bad about demons and devils really well.
For those unawares, it's a book containing letters from one demon, Screwtape, advising his young nephew Wormwood on how to drag a human, dubbed "the Patient", to Hell.
There's so much in that book that describes the psychology of Hell that I can't really encapsulate it in a comment, but the line that really haunts me comes from one of the title demon's victims. Upon arriving in Hell after long succumbing to Screwtape's machinations, the man says, "I see now that I did neither what I should have done nor what I wanted to do."
On a side note, glad you're doing okay and have support. Happy to see that you still find the strength to make videos!
I went over that in the discord. I find the screw tape letters to be useful but more on the tempting side of things rather than fulfilling the whole check list. Thank you for watching.
Never heard of the book. Saw it is by C.S. Lewis and dedicated to J.R.R. Tolkien. Straight up called my local bookshop, tomorrow 10 AM i can pick it up.
Thanks for that hint ❤
@@guitarjacksonblue It's by far my favorite book. Hope you enjoy it.
Honestly Clive Barker did the Screwtape Letters better than CS Lewis in the second story of Books of Blood, just like Chesterton the problem with CS Lewis is that if you share his beliefs the books are great but if you don’t they become grating
@@Karamazov9 I haven't read Barker, but I disagree with your point about Lewis.
I actually first read Screwtape Letters as an atheist and wouldn't become religious again for years. Even then, I'm not exactly Christian.
It's also one of his most popular books even among secular and non-Christian demographics. So it seems like it works well for more than just people of Lewis' strain of Christianity.
"How to write Satan" what, you mean like write a letter to him?
no, like spell it right
exactly so you don't address Santa by accident
You could just send my boss a mail, much easier and equally horrifying
Dear Satan, I'd like a puppy this year
Dear Mjfrkevtkuju,
Here’s a puppy possessed by a hellhound. He eats the souls of the innocent and likes bathing in the blood of children. Also, he loves head pats.
Sincerely, Satan
P.S.-I lied, I’m not sending you anything, dipshit. Go to Hell, I’ll see ya there!
@@Mjfrkevtju I imagine a hellhound puppy would be a blast
I think that the road of temptation is very well encapsulated in The Devil’s Advocate.
“Vanity. My favorite sin. Get’s em every time…”
another very good find and film! I should have used that one too!
I took this title way too literally and thought it would just be 10 seconds of you sounding out the word like it was a Sesame Street segment. But this is way better! Thank you for continuing to create awesome content in the midst of your treatment - it is by no means necessary but a testament to your commitment and passion towards discussing dark fantasy. My hat’s off to you sir, your videos helped me through some tough times of my own :)
Himself for "kill six billion demons" is a different take on satan that i like to use in rpgs. The king of devils being imprisoned by the devils.
I love this comic/webcomic and my mind Mandela Effect "Himself" name into "I". The story states that the less names, the more powerful the devil, so the shortest name would be "I", so the most powerful devil. But yes, devils in that story are interesting bunch.
"Do as Thou wilt"
@@MrocnyZbik very true, there apparently is some debate if his name is either "I" or "myself" on the forums I think.
Holy shit i havent heard that name in years. How could i forget that comic. Thank you for the reminder.
@@ItsAllNunyait’s on its second to last or the last arc of the series
@@ItsAllNunya lucky you lol
Hope you’re getting better over time. You and Lazar of Stygia two of my favorite creators.
Yes! Thank you. Especially considering your health. Keep on going big man 💪🏼
no, thank you for your kindness during these times, much appreciated
Related, but shout out to an ongoing Manhwa I am reading with a Satan-like horror trickster monster protagonist: "The Fangs That Pierce the Heart." I am not sure how many boxes Iblonde checks off in your book, but they do horrifying and mortifying things you expect an unrepentant, manipulative demon to do. For #1, we do get told the backstory of Beliel's current meatsuit. Don't know if there is a genre or term for a horror story where, rather than the protagonist struggling against a monster, the focus is on rooting for the side characters to realize the growing dread and somehow survive the insidious calamity that is technically the protagonist, while she tiptoes around the church, going from peasant to presumably "nobly" usurping the crown by the meatsuit's birthright as part of the original promise. By the time she set the ___ on fire, I knew that grieving mother who wanted better for her daughter (and in part "miffed" at the corrupt church and state) had summoned an archdemon, a secret harbinger of woe for both innocent and guilty that get caught up with Beliel. (I should have expected that in Ch.1 when Iblonde was caught eating the village horses).
You probably know some better stories, and Manhwa art may not be your cup (mostly when art quality dips at points... at some points... I think I remember...), but it is generally good, conveying that not running away as soon as Iblonde smiles at you was the worst life decisions you could have ever made (par with any secretly Satan characters). Similar kind of hebegebees Makima from Chainsawman gives.
Good stuff, man! Always like this archetype. Creates so much internal conflict in the protagonist and mystique for the viewer.
The radio demon is a bad Satan, when he has a dueling dads battle against Lucifer. Lol (Satan as a figure is better served by maybe by Adam as he at least tries to tempt Charlie's GF to work for heaven)
I do respectfully disagree when it comes to what is a faithful adaptation to Satan as a concept because at his core he is a rebel by choice he is the first rebel pride is the first sin which was committed in heaven and despite every single opportunity he holds the middle finger up and says no. And he is the greatest evil bar none no competition and when he gets somebody to fall he congratulates them on being strong like oh you're strong for rebelling against good good is stupid. That's the fateful adaptation to Satan but honestly that doesn't get people to think he's all that cool. The horror of him being an immortal cruel sadistic Spirit really is not expressed very well in a lot of tellings. And I would argue one of the best sources to get a fraction of inspiration for writing like that would be interviews with exorcists.
In Paradise Lost he’s right to rebel
Great video, Sauron in The Lord of The Rings trilogy is a Satan figure as well because his evil ring makes Smeagol became evil and became Gollum and at the end Smeagol/Gollum is who makes Sauron ring be destroyed in ending of the books/movies.
Very good example you are correct
Glad to see you making content, get behind thee Satan
Without any spoilers, in the Netflix animation Twilight of the Gods episode The Scapegoat God, there is an amazing monologue by Loki about the nature of his godhood, how he exists so others could blame him for their actions.
I think that's the tragedy of Satan, of course we are human and what we always do is humanize abstract concepts and Christianity did it extremely well.
In my eyes, the disgusted/tired Devil figure is the top. When a writer can achieve to convey that a being's involvement in humanity comes from utter loathing, yet pride is what keeps it trying and trying is when I'm more than satisfied with the devil.
Brennan Lee Mulligan's Asmodeus monologue is also absolutely amazing. The Hungarian drama Tragedy of Man also depicts a Lucifer who tries to show the folly of man to Adam not to punish him but to open his eyes to the cruelty of an ignorant god.
Long time fan at this point said it before but your content scratches my brain, thanks for uploading man I hope your health improves
Thank you for this podcast. And get well! Fingers crossed from Czech Republic!
Take notes Vizziepop
Love the channel, and hope you start feeling better soon.
Fun bit of Slade-based trivia, and how it relates to self inflicted punishment through their own actions.
In season one, Slade dabbles in a bit of magic when an opportunity presents itself. A pair of demigod brothers visit town and make a nuisance of themselves, and Slade eggs them on, and uses their magic to empower some sort of demonic ritual to summon a fire elemental. The symbol used in this ritual, we later learn, is the Mark of Scath.
A symbol of Trigon.
Then Slade dies in season two, and we learn in season four his soul apparently went to Trigon. I think we can guess why he went there. Yep, the guy literally damned his soul to Hell by dabbling with demon magic he clearly didn't understand, just to unleash a monster of the week on the Titans.
There are times the way My Hero Academia handles All For One / Shigaraki that makes me think they were leaning on the "pure Devil" elements, though it may still be more comfortable as a megalomaniacal person-cancer with a penchant for cult leader leanings to lure people in.
Great video as always! 🍻
“Better to rule in Hell than be ruled in Heaven. ….What matter where, so long as I remain the same?” A massive ego is key.
6-8 are basically just the same rule applying to everyone. “You reap what you sow.” So satan always eventually reaps rebellion. This is why he looks like Voldemort under the bench at the train station by the end.
Slight tangent, but you mentioned him. This video brings to mind some the reasons I think Hellsing’s Alucard is undergoing apotheosis to become the Angel of Death in the flesh, not Satan or the antichrist.
Just some random thoughts. Big fan of your videos. Good luck in your battle. Me and my father just remodeled a kitchen and he’s been beating stage 4 prostate cancer for over 7 years now.
"A mind not to be changed by place or time.
The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a heav'n of hell, a hell of heav'n.”
John Milton Paradise Lost
@@kingkoi6542 that’s actually my favorite part of that speech.
I kinda half meant it at first, but Adam in Hazbin Hotel does hit most of the criteria. 1. Always masked, not initially known as the one doing the raids, and his raids aren't known to everyone. 2. First man - You all came from my n****! Thinks he should be worshipped by the demons. 3. Tempts angels to go on raids that not everyone in heaven would approve of and tempts the main angel lady to allow it. 4. As original sinner, kills demons who's sin path he started. 5. Hell is forever! 6. Killed in a raid he shouldn't have been doing when he could have walked away but had to play victim / complain they should have been his to do whatever he wanted with them. 7. Not at all redeemed, and even causes "redemption" of someone that was trying to stop him. 8. Destroyed when he could have left due to his arrogance and self pitying.
Glad to see you up and running man, great content, as usual
My personal favourite is Viggo Mortensen as Lucifer in The Prophecy.
Good to hear from you man, thanks for this video. I’ll get the first video I watch to get the Halloween vibe going
Don’t want to spoil too much, but if you haven’t seen the critical role miniseries EXU: Calamity, there is an excellent use of this archetype.
Great video man, keep up the good work and keep fighting the good fight!
Let me begin by thanking you for this video. I subscribed due to the Conan lore videos, which are excellent, but i enjoyed this one as well. That said, I have a different take on "the satan." In the Hebrew Bible, "satan" is not a name, but a title, and includes "the" in front of it (the Hebrew equivalent, of course). Meaning "the adversary". It's rather like the quote from "Rebel without a Cause", when asked, "Hey Johnny, what are you rebelling against?" And he answers, "Whaddya got?" The satan is anti-everything. So, G-d has a divine council (why Genesis 1 uses "we" as a pronoun with G-d, because he's not alone.) The satan is part of that council. You can see that in the Book of Job where they are called "sons of G-d". "The satan" also means "accuser" - he reminds G-d of the flaws of mankind. Think of him as the prosecuting attorney of the Divine council. Somewhere along the way, the story shifted so that instead of merely collecting evidence against our innocence, he began tempting is (perhaps to gain more evidence). By the 1st century CE, probably due to the influence of Zoroastrianism during the Babylonian captivity, the job title became an individual -- and the prince of darkness. Anyway, you were aiming for Milton's Satan more than the historic ha'satan, but i thought I'd share. Love your videos. Thanks again
Great take! Excellent point of view! Don’t worry more Conan is coming soon!
I really enjoy this type of deep dive, thank you for embarking on it. I originally started listening to your Conan deep dives but I can tell you have the type of mind and introspection to tackle these types of concepts.
While I didn't know what type of Satan you were going to talk about (there are at least as many types of Satan's as there are gods), I have been searching for material that divorces our human perspectives and biases from the divine.
Too often we receive illustrations of gods and devils who are nothing more than humans with horns or angel wings.
While there must be echoes of divinity to be found in our material environment, there must also be the unknowable, the terrifying otherness of which these entities are made of.
I am broaching of course on Cosmic Horror, but I feel like the road must meander there, eventually. All the best written representations of God (the undying fire in the bush who says "I am that I am") paired with the best representations of an "adversary" to that God (the Enochian fallen angels who bring the primordial fire to humanity), represented humanities attempt to illustrate concepts that are beyond themselves.
Misguided ramblings aside, I am sending you digital strength in what must be a difficult time. Thanks for the enjoyment you have brought to myself and many others, friend.
Love the new video!
So cool to see my name on the opening list!
My favorite version is the Devil or a Devil was “Legend,” with Darkness played by Tim Curry. Raphael in BG3 is close second and Viggo Morrison in “The Omen,” was creepy.
Omen is a solid pick, very classic 👍🏼
You mean the Prophecy I think
@ You are correct lol.
Grim you're voice is so perfect. Every time I watch an upload I think to myself "why isn't this guy's voice everywhere?"
I love your videos and I pray you get better
It's really interesting concept how to write a Satan figuring in fection good or bad but good video man.
Satan isn't punishing anyone for anything. That's dualistic gnostic concept, foreign to Christianity in every way. The Holy Fathers don't describe him as any sort of punisher, but the ultimate brat, that didn't get what he wanted, and is trying to drag all of us down with him.
Satan is complex. Far less complex than he thinks he is, but still complex, and therefore I would have to go into a long theological rant about him, but the comment section really isn't the place for that. Go ask your nearest Eastern Orthodox priest about it.
I loved this one would you be willing to do an inverse and talk about well written Jesus fugures? Also, I'm so excited for the Phantom knights lore breakdown!
Sweet thanks yeah I think that could work always fun to go over how many protagonists have “J.C.” as their initials
just send a letter to Mister Satan in Hell, Michigan.
Well it would be in Michigan
Haven’t watched the video yet, so I’ll leave this here as a personal footnote, but one of the things that make a ‘satan’ character has to be their compelling nature. That he not only beckons to your lower vices, but also your higher virtues; Seeking ‘true’ and compelling justification for his actions, beyond intelligent malice, and seeks it from YOU.
one of my favorite shows back in the 90s was Millenium, and there was one episode titled Somehow satan got behind me. It didn't feature the Devil, but it featured four demons hanging out at a donut shot talking about the egocentric nature and worthlessness of humankind and how they share their methods of damning Human souls, where one demon says he doesn't do anything anymore because Humanity has naturally damned their own souls in modern times without a Demon to tempt them. That was my favorite episode and it kind of gave off Mark Twain's Letters from the Earth vibes where in that story the Devil explains to the angel Gabriel of the hubris and egotism of all of Humanity believing they are the most important thing in creation to the Creator's eye. I like stories like that, where a Demon shows the hypocrisy of Humanity and Humanity is worse than the Demonic themselves. It's something that I also would use in dark-telling RPG games like Kult or World of Darkness.
I saw re-runs of that when I was a little kid! I know the episode! Very good find!
my birthday is on halloween so i hope you make something cool thanks good day
...Random question, but... You didn't make a pact with the devil, did you?
Very nice rant. Ever played “Lies of P”? Might be grim dark enough for a couple lore videos?
What if the following characters from the Hyperboan age where reborn in Westeros all in the year 270 AC thats 12 years before Roberts Rebellion. Yasmina is as the fifth child and second daughter of Lord Rickard and Lady Lyarra Stark the younger sister of Brandon Eddrad, Lyanna and Benjen. Conan as an Umber the younger brother of the Great Jon Umber, Belite as Manderly the third child of Lord Wyman, Thoth Armon as a Martel the youngest brother of Doran, Elia and Obyren, Valyria as a Hightower and Zenobia as a Tully the daughter of Hoster and youngest sibling of Catelyn, Lysa and Edmure.
Nefarious was a recent film that nailed it, I think, as far as Evil Spirits are concerned, brilliant acting. If you watch it, remember my comment when you see the hamburguer scene (you will know when you see it xD)
Oh that’s a very good one, I wish I had included that! Phenomenal find!
My favorite represantation of devil, but not Satan by your definition is Lucifer from Sandman that later get hus own series. Lucifer by Mike Carey is glorious and the show has nothing in common with it, they are two completly different stories with different characters, only names are similar.
Remember to take a break it’s okay to rest
If you are writing from a position of moral Nihilism and emotional rebellion against the possibility of moral positions and against moralising as a concept, then you will tend to write Satan figures just like they did in Hazbin Hotel, which is, as a parody of the symbolic template you are using, in their case, Christianity. If you are writing a Satan figure that way, and parodying the symbolic template, you will have to invert the moral poles (good and evil), evil is not evil, by necessity good is not good, and then, by a kind of archetypal irony, you become possessed of the Satan symbol as defined by the symbolic template you are attempting to parody, by virtue of attempting to parody it. It is so frequent to see writers and artists smashing their heads against symbols they do not understand...
My uncle James once said there’s a difference between a Lucifer and satanic archetype
i'd like to throw in the ripper doc from edgerunners
Can't donate in the community posts, so here. I'm sure the hospital bills must be enormous.
Thank you so much this is very kind I appreciate it a lot
I actually made Satan and Lucifer one entity in my metasetting. He's one of primordial beings along with Michael Morningstar(leader of angels of light), Metatron Supreme Order(forefather of Law conception) and Azathoth Primordial Chaos(The first creature in existence and main source of creation), and Karma the Absolute(Pillar of Harmony and Balance).
One of things that make Earth in my metasetting important is that this is world where Michael and Satan locked in eternal struggle between each other. And just incase in my Meta Jesus, Adam, Eve, Lilith, Kain, Abel, Noah and Abraam is real along with pagan gods(Thor, Horus, Perun and Zeus for example) and some mythic characters like Yellow Emperor and Baron Samedi, heck even ALIENS(Grey and little green men are one species) is real deal too. The main thing is that Earth is probably the world with the greatest number of diverse races, not even the metaempires don't have such a variaty of species, and they have a friggin universes as provinces!
But back to Satan, to put short he's pretty much the same as in bible but he fell not because of jealousy to humans, but because of Azathoth temptations but instead of becoming the puppet of Primordial Chaos, Lucifer turned into new element which embodies the evil, and because of that Angels called him Satan which means "enemy", and because of this enemy angels were divided, into Supreme angels(followers of their forefather Metatron) and Light Angels(Followers of Michael, who took his brother Lucifer Moniker). The thing is that in Hell(which is one of closest planes to Earth) Lucifer is sitting while waiting and Gathering forces for Apocalypse, which is considered an actual massive Renaissance for Earth it's closest planes and Alt.Versions, in which it's diverse aspects are gonna combine into new, one world, yet he still gathers enough power to crush any demonlord who dares to challenge him(it's honestly my joke about all that Demon Kings from anime and manga, like they brag about their title/status but they are nothing to one true Demon King and master - Lucifer).
So having looked through the comments and not seeing this mentioned; you're right about the Radio Demon, but for a much more compelling reason than you said, or might realize.
This is not surprising and is also really legitimate to miss, if the show rubbed you as wrong as it seems to have.
One, there's morality all over Hazbin Hotel, and it is not subtle. The clear point of the whole show is that the universe and systems they're in operate under different rules than even the people at the heads of those systems realize. Snake-boy is the show's thesis, its way of observing that good and evil are, actually, very simple: "evil is merely an abundance of selfishness, and a lack of empathy. Good then, is an absence of selfishness, and an abundance of empathy".
And it's not one act from him, but his whole arc that makes this point. And is supposed to raise the question then of why obviously terrible, or obviously good, people are in the places and positions they're in.
The *Radio* Demon though. He's trying to play the Satan angle straight, and he's not subtle about it either. Every decision he makes, every action, is self-serving. He's acting friendly with all these idiots because there's something in it for him, some plan he's pursuing. His every action is driven by self-interest...until it's not.
And when he clocks that spending so much time with a pack of what amounts to Spiky Care Bears With Issues has affected him this way, has him doing things that are not part of The Plan, it nearly gives him a mental break.
He's not a Satan figure, as you defined it, because he is a direct *subversion* of that exact definition. Someone trying to use other people to further his own goals, who ends up changed for the better despite his wants by those same people.
Also, hope you continue on the mend. Following your community posts is like watching a man wrestle with a bear, and your continued determination in that analogy is inspiring.
The concept of the both "punisher" and "tempter" is jewish, not christian.
Its even older than that. Speaking as a jew. The hindu collective is pretty fascinating. Along with Indus river valley and early African folk lore. An amalgamation of all of those would be super neat. Generational perspective give light to some grimdark ideas.
Christianity came from Judaism, and lots of Christians at least ascribe the tempter part to Satan.
Ironically hp Lovecraft nyarlathotep is also a good satanic figure despite lovecraft being an atheist
Chemo brain lol... understood (funny, but understood) please keep solidering on, Sir!!
Dear Satan, I've been really good and hope you can get me a new iphone, an iwatch, and better internet service.
Thanky you very much and Happy Halloween!
Questions have you ever heard of this anime called vampire hunter d you would love it
I have it’s great!
163rd like!👍
Awesome video!🤘
Keep up the awesome work!🤘😎🤘
Stay strong!💪😎
Stay awesome!🤘😎🤘
Hey man. I'm a Satanist and I see Satan as a figure of light, hope, and justice. I see yaveh as an unjust tyrant. Both in the symbolic sense.
I just want to wish you well. Chemotherapy is brutal. You don't have to make videos if resting would be better.
Heal well.
I look forward to watching more of your videos when you're feeling better. 🌞
Soon...