Ornithopters are one of those things more Sci-Fi needs. Look, I like the "duel pivoting rotors in enclosed housings over a Huey-Expy" look as much as the next guy, but its getting *really* old. Seeing Dune's flight method however impractical has seriously reinvigorated my interest in sci-fi designs.
Everything about the movie has made me so much more interested in sci-fi. Everything is just so monolithic and strange, I honestly don't care if it's impractical or doesn't make sense. Shit looks cool.
i can easily suspend my disbelief with them. i mean have you seen a dragonfly fly? they are incredible. maybe with the right materials and technology it can be upscaled. probably not but they are cool as hell.
Whatever floats your boat. I stick with "traditional" jet powered VTOL craft. Doesn't matter what comes out of the nozzle, aslong as it is high temperature and potentialy dangerous to the ground crew, i ltake it. Helicopters and tilt-rotors too. The Aerospatiale SA-2 Samson from Avatar or the D77 Pelican series from Halo, for example, have a special place in my heart. Nevertheless, these Dune 2021 Ornithopter are sexy as fuck and give me a tech boner :D. I want one in red please, something sporty.
"The templin institute must know when it is that I encompass their doom. This will give the other channels pause. The necessity is obvious, but I don't have to like it."
The dragonfly. Is what this is based on. Not just any insect. Dragonflys are the only insects that can hover. Glide. Dive. Fly backwards. Float intentionally in dust storms or wind to get around. Just so ya kno. Update 1/28 I should have said (since everyone is trying to make comments of other creatures doing this) Is that dragonflys can do ALL of these things. Not just one or two or three. Hummingbirds don't glide then fold there wings back to dive onto there prey. They hover. Sorry I should have made that clear. And hummingbirds aren't insects. So idk why hummingbirds or other species were brought up. The thing in the video is based on a dragonfly. Hence me saying INSECT. And like I said it can do ALL of what was listed.
Hummingbird Hawkmoths are able to do this as well The hover fly also, except the gliding part There's a multitude of insects that are capable of flying omnidirectionaly and hovering
@@DS-ej7zt dragonflies are of the order **Odonata** The term ornithopter was coined from the french word ornithoptère **Specifically** to refer to flapping wing flying machines. There's no denying the movie depiction of these ornithopters was taken from, or inspired by, dragonflies, but in the original books they were rather varied in design
The new film's take on the ornithopter was pretty cool. I think only Dune 2, during the intro, showed the 'bird wing' kind of Ornithopter. Kinda fuzzy on how the 1st Dune game (which was an...adventure(?) game) showed Ornithopter flight (aside from the flight PoV, I don't remember for sure, but I think there was a takeoff/landing animation? Did a quick search on youtube/google, and it didn't show takeoff/landing), although the Ornithopter design there was cool, too.
@@icepicjoey it's not so bad, part of the team is still in the EA mines but the rest formed petroglyph studios, who made empire at war and recently hired as a third party for the c&c remake
Dune (Cryo 1992) the adventure/RTS game ( back then the genre's were not as defined as they were now) did have an animation of the orni extending it's wings but it didn't "flap" as such. I think they were meant to be vibrating a little like they're shown in the 2021 movie.
Ornithopter is scientifically plausible and some striking implementation at small scales exist, but ones large enough to transport people run into extremely difficult problems of materials science and power efficiency.
@@shaider1982 I remeber seeing back at the beginning of the whole drone craze years ago some MIT professor made a series of micro-drones that mimicked insects. One was the size of a hummingbird that had some amazing audio & video recording abilities. Rumor had it that the CIA had funded the professor to come up with some the size of flies...🤔 If the right materials could be procured (or made) I don't see why it couldn't be scaled up to at least attack helicopter size.
this is what I kinda imagined an Ornathopter looked like while reading the books I was somewhat disappointed when I saw them in both the first movie and mini series
My first viewing of DUNE 2021, I originally thought the Harkonnen had commandeered the Atreides ornithopters after they seized the airfield near Arrakeen. I didn't realize each side had their own. It would be great to see the two respective military models side by side for comparison.
@@cedriceric9730 not at these scales there isn't. you're talking several hundred G at each end of the swing, at 120hz. The only material that might put up with that abuse is graphene, and mass-manufacture of that isn't practical. Those wings are under an order of magnitude more stress then jet engine turbine blades are. Smaller scale, though (a few inches or maybe a foot or two), and you can build them out of much cheaper carbon fibre.
They are under large stress however the joints are bigger failure point according to lore. Also they require almost no fuel as they have a mollusk as a main power source.
As i read the books, i always struggling to visualize what these would look like. Then i watched the movie and the depiction is just perfect. Amazing concept and design brought to life so vividly and beautifully.
2 movies is not a franchise. It just means that the story begun in the first movie will be finished. There are many trilogies and dualogies that are not franchises.
Usage of ornithopters in Dune universe is the testament to Herbert's genius. Ornithopter, if ever made practical, would be the epitome, the ultimate achievement of aerospace design, combining capabilities of fixed wing and rotorcraft while outperforming both in their respective roles. Yet it is something that is still beyond current capability of aeronautical engineering, material science and automation. There have been attempts at experimental ultralight aircraft and drones, but making something with practical utility of a helicopter or a jet is beyond us. The fact that people of the Imperium use them as aircraft of choice WITHOUT the insane levels of automation we need to make them work as seen in Dune with our current technological level, perfectly illustrates the technological advancement of a civilization 20 millennia from now.
It could be that the Atreides version is a suped up all weather variant specific to their homeworld's requirements while the Harkonnen variety only needs to operate in fair weather as the storms are too severe to fly in on Arrakis.
They look fucking badass and i love em but i can't find anything about why a dragonfly like design would be efficient or even practical as a future technology I've now concluded that it likely has more to do with the times dune was written in,where such may have definitely made sense for futurists.
If they can be perfected to use some kind of artificial muscle instead of motors they could become the most environmentally friendly form of air travel.
Dune is set so far into the future that if you went back in time the same amount the pyramids and writing would not yet exist. Hell maybe the wings allow aircraft to go supersonic without sonic booms causing damage with the wings disrupting the large boom of conventional supersonic jets. At the end of the day though it's a combination of rule of cool and that the book was written in the 60's by a guy who was 14 when biplanes were still the main aircraft in service then lived to see all the rapid progress in aircraft, helicopter and rocket design before it all came to a screeching halt in the 1980's.
@@Ushio01 True,they do be looking cool as fuck and yeah that last explanation does make sense. Considering the era when it was written in,it does make a whole lotta sense.
People ask, why nota aHelicopter? Due to the sands, high winds, sporadic gusts, a Helicopter design wouldn't be able to adapt to the rapid changing conditions like a winged Ornithopter can. Pointing out being able to hover, glide, and operate each wing independently allows the craft to survive dust storms and hurricane winds that can never be achieved with primitive rotary craft like a helicopter. As for jets, super heated jet exhaust has the side effect of turning sand dust into glass.
You know that almost all helicopters are powered by turbine engines right? Thousands of Blackhawks have flown in wars in the desert without turning sand to glass. Same for Harriers and now, F-35B.
Any type of turbine engine would need some serious filter systems to survive the dust storms on Arakis. This new design (2021 film) is pretty much what I had imagined when I read the original books back in the 80's. Was very disappointed by those used in the origial (Lynch versio) movie. It's been awhile since I saw the Sci-Fi miniseries, don't recall their version... Which I guess means I was not impressed very much if they weren't very memorable.
@@earlware4322 It’s a fantasy. Ornithopters would not work without a fly by wire system that constantly adjust the wings every fraction of a second. No computers, no fly by wire. Also, if dust is that bad, that the beating of the wings will also make visual take offs and landings impossible. Someone else will have to do the math to tell you how fast the wings will have to beat, with how large of a wing area to create enough lift for crafts the size of an average helicopter. Lastly, electrical plasma turbines with fewer moving parts are theoretically possible. They are some years off though. Again, they require computers to work.
@@edwhlam I think sand has taken it's toll on a fair share of rotorcraft, but not because it turns to glass, it tends to gum up other bits of the helo before the engine clogs. I'd imagine it'd happily kill it's fair share of ornithopters because of how fragile their flight performance is to things like a wing actuator jamming. The stuff isn't exactly great for mechanical equipment in general. You are right on needing a full fly-by-wire system to steer them, though. Computers exist in Dune, it was *AI* they banned, so the tech to steer one is there.
i want one irl, though i imagine figuring out how to make wings that vibrate like that without violently exploding or shaking the ship apart will be a challenging feat of engineering.
Yep. Modern-day helicopters need a lot of maintenance to keep them from flying apart. For a thopter like in Dune, you'd probably need super-materials like graphene to make thopter wings that can hold together.
More sci fi universes should utilize ornithopters. Unlike conventional jet aircraft I’d assume pollution wouldn’t have as much of a negative effect on flight characteristics.
“Practical” - doubt it. Too many moving parts on a single wing alone means too many opportunities for something to break down. Now multiple that risk times 6 or 8.
@@UGNAvalon And then multiply it further because you're on Arrakis, a planet known for coriolis storms and other weather events that aren't kind on delicate machinery.
I think there was a mention of someone using a damaged ornithopter as a ground-effect craft (gliding on a air cushion created between the wings when close to the ground) so I always imagined the wings to be different from what they are in the new movie.
Cool thing about them is you can lock them in swept-wing and blast off at huge speeds via the boosters, or do easy lower-speed low-altitude maneuvers. So it’s an easy-hover aircraft with the ability to fly as a jet for limited engagements. Sounds amazing. Also, if strong enough yet light enough materials such a carbon-fibre composites incorporating a distant generation of nano-tubes, graphene, etc having a thrusting mechanism that loads a spring, which is paired with an equally powerful responding spring, that has instant paired reciprocating actuators which are by their very nature perfectly synced, pushing it right back, like AC power. The potential energy of a spring to return to its resting position is very powerful. The perfect-syncing would reduce imparted vibration … it all comes down to torque, shear stress, not tearing apart between the two sides of the wing-mounts. Very elegant once you resolve a thousand years of trial and error as materials technology improves.
Yep. You have multiple flight modes, somewhat like the V-22 Osprey. You can have the wings beating for a hover/low-speed-flight mode that's super maneuverable, or you can switch some of the wings to gliding, and the other wings to creating forward thrust for a faster cruise. Or fold the wings back for a fast boost or a dive.
The main advantage I see is that it capable of moving in any direction in a instant and without turning, and if one of the wings are disable, it's still able to fly. Also, somebody stated it's capable of going supersonic without sonic booms that cause damage to the wings, unlike conventional supersonic jets.
As a matter of fact, the dragonfly mode of flight, with four independently controlled wings that are full adjustable in all meaningful parameters, is very efficient. Not at high speed flight, but at being able to achieve highly controlled flight in many flight regimes. Hover, fly backwards, forward flight, lateral flight, aerobatic flight. We'll see drones using this flight mode in the next few years. The ornithopter model is conceptually quite valid. Using two pairs of independent wings, as per a dragonfly, would be an optimal choice for an aircraft that serves as a helicopter. Clearly the technical design crew for this movie did their homework.
I like that Dune's tech exists in a time where humanity is no longer obsessed with it. No big dumb panels to move your hands over, no plethora of buttons, tech isn't just taken for granted, it's utterly ubiquitous so as to become almost mundane.
As I stated in another clip, the ornithopters of the Imperium were practically unstoppable until the invention of the orniswatter, which was even more effective than the orni-paper since it did not depend on the ornithopters flying into it.
This is a great concept for a future generations of rotary aircraft, because it provides safety for Pilots, since the rotors or wings are located in the sides of the aircraft, the pilots can use parachutes in case of malfunctions.
The problem with these is precisely the failures. We'd need a magical super-alloy with exceptional fatigue resistance to get an ornithopter working without having to replace the blades after every single flight
They're amazing to behold, and they did an absolutely stellar job bringing them to the screen. . But these things are TERRIBLE aircraft. There are far more effective and simpler combinations of VTOL and high-speed. . These ornithopters are finally what they always should've been, but the concept in general is just not practical, no matter the technology. No matter what materials or mechanisms you devise, there will always be better ways of achieving the same type of performance.
Yeah, I'm just sitting here trying to think what advantage this has over a standard helicopter, let alone a tilt-rotor aircraft like the V-22 osprey. - I highly doubt this would be more fuel/energy efficient than a rotor system - the engineering and ongoing maintenance, especially in a desert environment like this has to be a nightmare for the mechanics - safety, maybe? I could see the benefit of redundancy if one of the wings get taken out and the ability to glide is interesting (though dubious if we consider the actual surface area to lift ratio of such narrow wings). that said, interesting concept and they look cool. I especially like that angular cockpit; feels grounded and practical, instead of some weird, bulbous, organic looking thing.
@@QuantumAscension1 The main advantage is that they replicate the insane maneuverability of dragonflies as they are far faster than any helicopter we have but also being extremely nimble and responsive, as the ornithopter can perform turns, stops, etc. on a dime and we see this with the maneuvers that Idaho pulls off during his escape in a tightly enclosed space. The realistic downside would be up-keep and maintenance of these things but at the same time, in this far-flung future, who is to say that the up-keep of such a craft would be as hard as it would be today.
They might actually be practical on planets similar to Saturn's moon Titan with it's thick atmosphere and low gravity. I'm no aerospace engineer so I could be wrong.
Ornithopters fit so well into the world of dune, in the far future where material science advances would mean fatigue isn’t as big a deal as it would be to us, and the design is relatively simple without thinking machine assistance. And the aesthetic factor would help win over the nobles of the empire. Just another thing about dune that makes it such a believable universe
The Dune Encyclopedia has an interesting entry on the ornithopter wherein it describes its propulsion system. Basically, it has installed within its wing-junctures a domesticated, specially-bred creature called a heart scallop (a type of land mollusk notable for the astonishing strength of its single muscle) that is connected to a series of electrical leads. One line shocks the organism into dormancy if the pilot wants to use fixed-wing jet-assisted flight (and if power is disconnected, the scallop resumes its normal pulsing action). Engaging the other electrical line causes the scallop to increase its pulsation, and is typically used for rapid air braking or vertical takeoff.
No offense, but this is way too 'out there', way too bonkers. By this very far point in Mankind's future history (and I am taking into account various technological plateaus and even setbacks), Humans of Dune's era should already be able to independently develop a tech like this without utilization of any silly "hamster wheels". I can possibly imagine a tech concept like this (I mean the bonkers one, with the cartoony "hamster wheel" inside) to work in the universe of Farscape, because that franchise never took itself completely seriously; at least not for the most part. But this simply shall not work in anything as earnest and as serious-minded as the Dune franchise is. It would be like adding lightsabers into the works of A.C. Clarke, Philip K. Dick or Isaac Asimov.
@@subraxas the Encyclopedia is fully supported and endorsed as canon by Frank Herbert. The concept is entirely consistent with the novels and within the setting. Your inability to believe or accept it as plausible within the story is irrelevant to its validity.
@@craigjones7343 Yes, I have known about its canonical status and Herbert's endorsement the whole time. However, Mr. Herbert also liked Jodorowsky's insane screenplay for his movie version of Dune and later also endorsed Lynch's bland, mishandled film which Lynch himself strove to disown, but was not legally allowed to. All that says quite a lot!! Meaning that Mr. Herbert came across as someone who would be happy to endorse almost any crap with the brand name "Dune" slapped on it.
There are several. In fact, Westwood’s Dune II is commonly considered the first ‘true RTS’ with many of it’s ideas carrying over to Command & Conquer. Dune’s DNA is all over the entire genre. A new one to ride off the film would be fantastic, though.
In Jack Vance's book THE KILLING MACHINE, a vehicle is built to mimic a giant centipede type organism. I'll not go into details,but the book is the second in a series of five and I believe that the staff at the Templin Institute should look into that particular author's works. My favorite of Mr Vance's books is the novella EMPHYRIO. Another fantastic read.
The ornithopters are very cool to look at. VERY cool. I have to question their practicality, given that for any given state of materials science and propulsion technology, rotors simply deliver more energy before they start falling apart. Rotors and wheels and shafts and bearings aren't often seen in nature due to the nature of blood plumbing, muscles, and growth. But in machines where you're bolting parts and subassemblies together whole, spinning things generally make a lot more sense than reciprocating things. The piston engine is a notable exception, but there's a reason aviation has mostly abandoned them for rotor-based turbine engines. But, compared to vehicles which hover on "don't worry about it" technology, they're still remarkably practical. Not quite Avatar Samson duct-fan helicopter practical, but still obviously extensively thought-out.
Yes, they were Thinking Machines, not a Machine God. I think the first book off-handedly mentioned a 'god of machine-logic', but that's almost certainly figurative.
Not exactly the kind of flying aircraft I'd want for frontline or standard duties. Maybe as something sold for rear line work on unimportant worlds or basic local PDF forces.
Atreides Ornithopters are the coolest military utility aerospace craft in any sci-fi universe. Instant favorites for me.
It's right up there with the USCM UD-4 "Cheyenne" Dropship from Aliens.
@@Firefox13A that and Halo’s assortment of dropships.
Pelicans in halo?
I vote the orca of command and conquer that's one cool plane helicopter hybrid
@@gavrawlinson3099 well it is still mostly a bomber than a helicopter
But yeah it is a special design
Regardless of the century, plane, or species, developing artificers never fail to invent the ornithopter.
I am sincerely happy that someone beat me to this comment.
Well what else so cooler then rotated prop? FLAPPING prop
And now I need an altered ornithopter or thopter token for the Emry deck I am making
Always 0 CMC too!
Always wondered if Dune inspired Magic’s Ornithopter or not.
Dune 2021 has the best depiction of ornithopters
@@Zoloft77 I'm not sure that we'll get that far into the books with Villeneuve at the helm. I hope to be proven wrong on this though!
@@araknas3981 We´ll get Messiah, Children and beyond won´t be coming by his hand, I´d bet on it.
Best sure, not like you can compare it to anything.
@@Zoloft77 we've seen it, its just jumping, rolling over your opponents back, and flipping around like a dingus.
@@mistaowickkuh6249 your point is?
Ornithopters are one of those things more Sci-Fi needs. Look, I like the "duel pivoting rotors in enclosed housings over a Huey-Expy" look as much as the next guy, but its getting *really* old. Seeing Dune's flight method however impractical has seriously reinvigorated my interest in sci-fi designs.
Everything about the movie has made me so much more interested in sci-fi. Everything is just so monolithic and strange, I honestly don't care if it's impractical or doesn't make sense. Shit looks cool.
i can easily suspend my disbelief with them. i mean have you seen a dragonfly fly? they are incredible. maybe with the right materials and technology it can be upscaled. probably not but they are cool as hell.
How I look at it is there may be an advantage to these in sand environment. That's what I tell my self anyways.
LEXX
Whatever floats your boat. I stick with "traditional" jet powered VTOL craft. Doesn't matter what comes out of the nozzle, aslong as it is high temperature and potentialy dangerous to the ground crew, i ltake it. Helicopters and tilt-rotors too. The Aerospatiale SA-2 Samson from Avatar or the D77 Pelican series from Halo, for example, have a special place in my heart.
Nevertheless, these Dune 2021 Ornithopter are sexy as fuck and give me a tech boner :D. I want one in red please, something sporty.
Hopefully House Harkonnen won’t conspire with the Emperor to have this video taken down
"The templin institute must know when it is that I encompass their doom. This will give the other channels pause. The necessity is obvious, but I don't have to like it."
This video is an abomination for it was created with the use of a Thinking Machine.
Don’t forget about the ornithopter’s number 1 advantage, it costs no mana.
They are great in a Ninja deck.
Traumatic flashbacks to it getting equipped with cranial plating or skullclamp..
0/1 Flying at a cost of 0 mana. Epic!
Man of culture, I see.
@@TakManSan
Turn 1: Island, Ornithopter
Turn 2: Island, Ensoul Artifact
The dragonfly. Is what this is based on. Not just any insect. Dragonflys are the only insects that can hover. Glide. Dive. Fly backwards. Float intentionally in dust storms or wind to get around. Just so ya kno.
Update 1/28
I should have said (since everyone is trying to make comments of other creatures doing this) Is that dragonflys can do ALL of these things. Not just one or two or three. Hummingbirds don't glide then fold there wings back to dive onto there prey. They hover. Sorry I should have made that clear. And hummingbirds aren't insects. So idk why hummingbirds or other species were brought up. The thing in the video is based on a dragonfly. Hence me saying INSECT. And like I said it can do ALL of what was listed.
Hummingbird Hawkmoths are able to do this as well
The hover fly also, except the gliding part
There's a multitude of insects that are capable of flying omnidirectionaly and hovering
@@DS-ej7zt dragonflies are of the order **Odonata**
The term ornithopter was coined from the french word ornithoptère **Specifically** to refer to flapping wing flying machines.
There's no denying the movie depiction of these ornithopters was taken from, or inspired by, dragonflies, but in the original books they were rather varied in design
unmistakably
That figures. 🤔
Which is why Dune 2021 had entemopters . . . not ornithopters.
As kids we used to laugh about Herbert's 'flappy aircraft', but I have to admit, the movie realized them in a way that looked and felt realistic.
He ignored engineering with that one and if you think about it, thousands of years of R&D can solve many issues.
The new film's take on the ornithopter was pretty cool.
I think only Dune 2, during the intro, showed the 'bird wing' kind of Ornithopter.
Kinda fuzzy on how the 1st Dune game (which was an...adventure(?) game) showed Ornithopter flight (aside from the flight PoV, I don't remember for sure, but I think there was a takeoff/landing animation? Did a quick search on youtube/google, and it didn't show takeoff/landing), although the Ornithopter design there was cool, too.
The first Dune game I remember was Westwood Studios Dune. A RTS game.
Westwoid is gone now, gobbled up by ea.
@@icepicjoey it's not so bad, part of the team is still in the EA mines but the rest formed petroglyph studios, who made empire at war and recently hired as a third party for the c&c remake
Dune (Cryo 1992) the adventure/RTS game ( back then the genre's were not as defined as they were now) did have an animation of the orni extending it's wings but it didn't "flap" as such. I think they were meant to be vibrating a little like they're shown in the 2021 movie.
@@Chayat0freak cryo's dune 1992 is 100% just a point and click adventure game, not even somewhat an rts
Dune 2000 has nice 'thopter model for the intro and cinematics.
Ornithopter is scientifically plausible and some striking implementation at small scales exist, but ones large enough to transport people run into extremely difficult problems of materials science and power efficiency.
Ironically you would also need a pretty beefy computer to regulate all of the wings to work together
the amount of stress on blades would be way too high and the efficiency way too low
Flapping flight is practical for lower reynolds numbers (i.e. smaller vehicles ). I think this is why small drone/toy ornithopters exist.
@@shaider1982 I remeber seeing back at the beginning of the whole drone craze years ago some MIT professor made a series of micro-drones that mimicked insects. One was the size of a hummingbird that had some amazing audio & video recording abilities. Rumor had it that the CIA had funded the professor to come up with some the size of flies...🤔
If the right materials could be procured (or made) I don't see why it couldn't be scaled up to at least attack helicopter size.
Dune probably cheats by using counter gravity to effectively lighten the ship
Love the design of these things they appear to come straight out of the book capable of both hovering and soaring like the they are described to do
The odds are they were inspired by the The Riout 102T Alérion Ornithopter built in 1937, designed by René Riout. ...
And a huge Headache to keep them maintaned
My favorite version is the Hornithopter, which are piloted exclusively by Shiba Inus.
What reference is that?
With their battlehowl. “Horni get the bonk!”
"Shiba Inu... Now that name I haven't heard in a long time."
Dune 2021 absolutely nailed the ornithopters. Just brilliant and tied with the OG X-Wing as my favorite sci fi ship of all time!
For when you want helicopters, but you want them to not be helicopters.
Actually sums up a lot of sci-fi aircraft.
Verti birds ect lmao
this is what I kinda imagined an Ornathopter looked like while reading the books I was somewhat disappointed when I saw them in both the first movie and mini series
What mini series???? I didn't know there was a mini series
@@Zephyr_Phoenix76 Sci-fi channel Dune miniseries. Spans the first book, Messiah AND Children of Dune. It's lowish budget but not too bad.
@@Jimbogf Oh that explains much...if it's on scify (sci-fi channel real name)then barely anyone watched it at all.
@@Zephyr_Phoenix76 It's from 2000-2001. Back then it was just Sci-Fi Channel.
@@Jimbogf oh so star wars
My first viewing of DUNE 2021, I originally thought the Harkonnen had commandeered the Atreides ornithopters after they seized the airfield near Arrakeen. I didn't realize each side had their own. It would be great to see the two respective military models side by side for comparison.
I briefly thought this as well.
I shiver to think of the material stresses those wings are put under. so many moving parts, so many points of failure, all under intense torque.
There are materials that can withstand such conditions but mass manufacturers who make money from planned absolence loathe them
That's basically a modern jet engine
@@cedriceric9730 not at these scales there isn't. you're talking several hundred G at each end of the swing, at 120hz. The only material that might put up with that abuse is graphene, and mass-manufacture of that isn't practical.
Those wings are under an order of magnitude more stress then jet engine turbine blades are. Smaller scale, though (a few inches or maybe a foot or two), and you can build them out of much cheaper carbon fibre.
They are under large stress however the joints are bigger failure point according to lore. Also they require almost no fuel as they have a mollusk as a main power source.
@@tankingwithtigers136 Can you explain more about the mollusk?
As i read the books, i always struggling to visualize what these would look like. Then i watched the movie and the depiction is just perfect. Amazing concept and design brought to life so vividly and beautifully.
Dune 2 just got confirmed!!! We are getting a full franchise out of this!!! Be very excited, everyone!
2 movies is not a franchise. It just means that the story begun in the first movie will be finished. There are many trilogies and dualogies that are not franchises.
What's the use? Frank Herbert the writer of dune series died before he could finish the story...and he died leaving the story on a cliffhanger
@@Exhalted1 Given the nature of the series, a cliffhanger with an uncertain future is probably among the best ways to end it.
@@Exhalted1 His son published two more books to finish the main series.
@@Nidhogg13 Except his son's books are really really bad as any dune fan will tell you, it's bad fanfiction written by his son
Thopters in Dune 2021 are the one of the best-looking sci-fi vehicles ever.
I like how the Harkonnen thopters are basically Hinds, not-so-subtle reference to the Soviet-Afghan War
These reports is incredible I’m fascinated by Dune and hope your personnel can find out more on the events on Arrakis
Praise the algorithm. Praise the institute.
Usage of ornithopters in Dune universe is the testament to Herbert's genius. Ornithopter, if ever made practical, would be the epitome, the ultimate achievement of aerospace design, combining capabilities of fixed wing and rotorcraft while outperforming both in their respective roles. Yet it is something that is still beyond current capability of aeronautical engineering, material science and automation. There have been attempts at experimental ultralight aircraft and drones, but making something with practical utility of a helicopter or a jet is beyond us. The fact that people of the Imperium use them as aircraft of choice WITHOUT the insane levels of automation we need to make them work as seen in Dune with our current technological level, perfectly illustrates the technological advancement of a civilization 20 millennia from now.
I absolutely loved the look of the ornithopter in Dune 2021 and I am so excited for part 2. I can’t wait!
Wondering why the "Heavier" ones used by Harkonnen were 6 wing but the smaller ones were 8... I guess the s6 wing ones were larger wings?
different design goal most likely four seems the minimum.
Larger craft -> larger wings -> lower flapping speed.
It could be that the Atreides version is a suped up all weather variant specific to their homeworld's requirements while the Harkonnen variety only needs to operate in fair weather as the storms are too severe to fly in on Arrakis.
@@VunterSlaush1650 logical.
They look fucking badass and i love em but i can't find anything about why a dragonfly like design would be efficient or even practical as a future technology
I've now concluded that it likely has more to do with the times dune was written in,where such may have definitely made sense for futurists.
If they can be perfected to use some kind of artificial muscle instead of motors they could become the most environmentally friendly form of air travel.
@@juanfernandez1696 While this might be true, I don't think the Imperium gives two shits about the environment generally. Just think of Geidi Prime.
Dune is set so far into the future that if you went back in time the same amount the pyramids and writing would not yet exist.
Hell maybe the wings allow aircraft to go supersonic without sonic booms causing damage with the wings disrupting the large boom of conventional supersonic jets.
At the end of the day though it's a combination of rule of cool and that the book was written in the 60's by a guy who was 14 when biplanes were still the main aircraft in service then lived to see all the rapid progress in aircraft, helicopter and rocket design before it all came to a screeching halt in the 1980's.
Because dragonflies are the best fliers in the animal kingdom.
@@Ushio01 True,they do be looking cool as fuck and yeah that last explanation does make sense.
Considering the era when it was written in,it does make a whole lotta sense.
I like the new design.
It's like a metal hummingbird.
You mean Dragonfly.
@@craigjones7343 100% Dragonfly for sure, would love to see more varieties later for sure
Man inventing a vehicle for a fictional universe is very challenging. This is why some of mine will be drones.
People ask, why nota aHelicopter? Due to the sands, high winds, sporadic gusts, a Helicopter design wouldn't be able to adapt to the rapid changing conditions like a winged Ornithopter can. Pointing out being able to hover, glide, and operate each wing independently allows the craft to survive dust storms and hurricane winds that can never be achieved with primitive rotary craft like a helicopter.
As for jets, super heated jet exhaust has the side effect of turning sand dust into glass.
You know that almost all helicopters are powered by turbine engines right? Thousands of Blackhawks have flown in wars in the desert without turning sand to glass. Same for Harriers and now, F-35B.
Any type of turbine engine would need some serious filter systems to survive the dust storms on Arakis.
This new design (2021 film) is pretty much what I had imagined when I read the original books back in the 80's. Was very disappointed by those used in the origial (Lynch versio) movie. It's been awhile since I saw the Sci-Fi miniseries, don't recall their version... Which I guess means I was not impressed very much if they weren't very memorable.
@@earlware4322 It’s a fantasy. Ornithopters would not work without a fly by wire system that constantly adjust the wings every fraction of a second. No computers, no fly by wire.
Also, if dust is that bad, that the beating of the wings will also make visual take offs and landings impossible. Someone else will have to do the math to tell you how fast the wings will have to beat, with how large of a wing area to create enough lift for crafts the size of an average helicopter.
Lastly, electrical plasma turbines with fewer moving parts are theoretically possible. They are some years off though. Again, they require computers to work.
Are helicopters maniability on par with ornithopters ? Or are ornithopters far better in manoeuvers ?
@@edwhlam I think sand has taken it's toll on a fair share of rotorcraft, but not because it turns to glass, it tends to gum up other bits of the helo before the engine clogs. I'd imagine it'd happily kill it's fair share of ornithopters because of how fragile their flight performance is to things like a wing actuator jamming. The stuff isn't exactly great for mechanical equipment in general.
You are right on needing a full fly-by-wire system to steer them, though. Computers exist in Dune, it was *AI* they banned, so the tech to steer one is there.
i want one irl, though i imagine figuring out how to make wings that vibrate like that without violently exploding or shaking the ship apart will be a challenging feat of engineering.
Yep. Modern-day helicopters need a lot of maintenance to keep them from flying apart. For a thopter like in Dune, you'd probably need super-materials like graphene to make thopter wings that can hold together.
On smaller, RC sized, aircraft it's certainly much easier to achieve
During the intro I almost yelled 'HERESY' when he said after the fall of the machine god
Awesome vid as always loving the dune content accompanying my reread and the new movie!
I need a full metal model kit for the Atreides' ornithopter. Hell, I want a kit for all the variants portrayed in the movie.
I would accept Lego technics for the starter
More sci fi universes should utilize ornithopters. Unlike conventional jet aircraft I’d assume pollution wouldn’t have as much of a negative effect on flight characteristics.
What would power the wings tho? 🤔
@@UGNAvalon depends on the universe. Could be anything from a conventional turbine to a nuclear reaction or a battery.
I have to say, i LOVE this design, top tier.
Well designed,grounded and most of all seems practical.Well done.Continue the good work in sequels
The most impressive scenes for me on Arrakis and the Ornithoptere the machines with dragonfly wings but what an idea !
I instantly fell in love with these things and I want one so badly.
I want one, to be honest. It looks cool and practical too
“Practical” - doubt it. Too many moving parts on a single wing alone means too many opportunities for something to break down. Now multiple that risk times 6 or 8.
@@UGNAvalon And then multiply it further because you're on Arrakis, a planet known for coriolis storms and other weather events that aren't kind on delicate machinery.
@@UGNAvalon that's because of your doubt we never move forward
Amazing work as always
I think there was a mention of someone using a damaged ornithopter as a ground-effect craft (gliding on a air cushion created between the wings when close to the ground) so I always imagined the wings to be different from what they are in the new movie.
This is what happens when a dragonfly falls in love with a RAH-66 Comanche!
Cool thing about them is you can lock them in swept-wing and blast off at huge speeds via the boosters, or do easy lower-speed low-altitude maneuvers. So it’s an easy-hover aircraft with the ability to fly as a jet for limited engagements. Sounds amazing.
Also, if strong enough yet light enough materials such a carbon-fibre composites incorporating a distant generation of nano-tubes, graphene, etc having a thrusting mechanism that loads a spring, which is paired with an equally powerful responding spring, that has instant paired reciprocating actuators which are by their very nature perfectly synced, pushing it right back, like AC power. The potential energy of a spring to return to its resting position is very powerful. The perfect-syncing would reduce imparted vibration … it all comes down to torque, shear stress, not tearing apart between the two sides of the wing-mounts.
Very elegant once you resolve a thousand years of trial and error as materials technology improves.
Yep. You have multiple flight modes, somewhat like the V-22 Osprey. You can have the wings beating for a hover/low-speed-flight mode that's super maneuverable, or you can switch some of the wings to gliding, and the other wings to creating forward thrust for a faster cruise. Or fold the wings back for a fast boost or a dive.
It seems that this ship's design was inspired by the The Riout 102T Alérion Ornithopter built in 1937, designed by René Riout.
Ornithopters are one of those examples of something having very high "coolness" and very low "does this make sense?".
The main advantage I see is that it capable of moving in any direction in a instant and without turning, and if one of the wings are disable, it's still able to fly. Also, somebody stated it's capable of going supersonic without sonic booms that cause damage to the wings, unlike conventional supersonic jets.
@@redrevise4668 yeah I think that person didn't know what they were talking about
As a matter of fact, the dragonfly mode of flight, with four independently controlled wings that are full adjustable in all meaningful parameters, is very efficient. Not at high speed flight, but at being able to achieve highly controlled flight in many flight regimes. Hover, fly backwards, forward flight, lateral flight, aerobatic flight. We'll see drones using this flight mode in the next few years. The ornithopter model is conceptually quite valid. Using two pairs of independent wings, as per a dragonfly, would be an optimal choice for an aircraft that serves as a helicopter. Clearly the technical design crew for this movie did their homework.
AH YES, DRAGONFLY BOI!
The vfx of realistically motion blurring the wings is effing insane.
I like that Dune's tech exists in a time where humanity is no longer obsessed with it. No big dumb panels to move your hands over, no plethora of buttons, tech isn't just taken for granted, it's utterly ubiquitous so as to become almost mundane.
it's utilitarian.
it's logical
*it's perfect*
As I stated in another clip, the ornithopters of the Imperium were practically unstoppable until the invention of the orniswatter, which was even more effective than the orni-paper since it did not depend on the ornithopters flying into it.
This is a great concept for a future generations of rotary aircraft, because it provides safety for Pilots, since the rotors or wings are located in the sides of the aircraft, the pilots can use parachutes in case of malfunctions.
KA-52 already has a ejection system.
The problem with these is precisely the failures. We'd need a magical super-alloy with exceptional fatigue resistance to get an ornithopter working without having to replace the blades after every single flight
As others have said this is one of the most creative and original airships i've seen in any sci fi story line.
They're amazing to behold, and they did an absolutely stellar job bringing them to the screen.
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But these things are TERRIBLE aircraft. There are far more effective and simpler combinations of VTOL and high-speed.
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These ornithopters are finally what they always should've been, but the concept in general is just not practical, no matter the technology. No matter what materials or mechanisms you devise, there will always be better ways of achieving the same type of performance.
Truel though none will that frakin' originally COOL.
Yeah, I'm just sitting here trying to think what advantage this has over a standard helicopter, let alone a tilt-rotor aircraft like the V-22 osprey.
- I highly doubt this would be more fuel/energy efficient than a rotor system
- the engineering and ongoing maintenance, especially in a desert environment like this has to be a nightmare for the mechanics
- safety, maybe? I could see the benefit of redundancy if one of the wings get taken out and the ability to glide is interesting (though dubious if we consider the actual surface area to lift ratio of such narrow wings).
that said, interesting concept and they look cool. I especially like that angular cockpit; feels grounded and practical, instead of some weird, bulbous, organic looking thing.
Yeah these are basically giant bug vehicles. We already got a better version of this in most hover fighters and helo gunships.
Perhaps, but keep in mind this was conceived of in the 1960s. The ornithopter is not a 2020s design.
@@QuantumAscension1 The main advantage is that they replicate the insane maneuverability of dragonflies as they are far faster than any helicopter we have but also being extremely nimble and responsive, as the ornithopter can perform turns, stops, etc. on a dime and we see this with the maneuvers that Idaho pulls off during his escape in a tightly enclosed space. The realistic downside would be up-keep and maintenance of these things but at the same time, in this far-flung future, who is to say that the up-keep of such a craft would be as hard as it would be today.
They might actually be practical on planets similar to Saturn's moon Titan with it's thick atmosphere and low gravity. I'm no aerospace engineer so I could be wrong.
Yo! Love your videos!
Ah yes! The ornithopters. The maintenance mechanics best friend, alot of moving parts.
mm moving parts and sandy conditions
Ornithopters fit so well into the world of dune, in the far future where material science advances would mean fatigue isn’t as big a deal as it would be to us, and the design is relatively simple without thinking machine assistance. And the aesthetic factor would help win over the nobles of the empire. Just another thing about dune that makes it such a believable universe
0:32 *plays Fortunate Son*
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IIITTTT!
The comments MUST flow!
The Dune Encyclopedia has an interesting entry on the ornithopter wherein it describes its propulsion system. Basically, it has installed within its wing-junctures a domesticated, specially-bred creature called a heart scallop (a type of land mollusk notable for the astonishing strength of its single muscle) that is connected to a series of electrical leads. One line shocks the organism into dormancy if the pilot wants to use fixed-wing jet-assisted flight (and if power is disconnected, the scallop resumes its normal pulsing action). Engaging the other electrical line causes the scallop to increase its pulsation, and is typically used for rapid air braking or vertical takeoff.
No offense, but this is way too 'out there', way too bonkers.
By this very far point in Mankind's future history (and I am taking into account various technological plateaus and even setbacks), Humans of Dune's era should already be able to independently develop a tech like this without utilization of any silly "hamster wheels".
I can possibly imagine a tech concept like this (I mean the bonkers one, with the cartoony "hamster wheel" inside) to work in the universe of Farscape, because that franchise never took itself completely seriously; at least not for the most part.
But this simply shall not work in anything as earnest and as serious-minded as the Dune franchise is.
It would be like adding lightsabers into the works of A.C. Clarke, Philip K. Dick or Isaac Asimov.
@@subraxas the Encyclopedia is fully supported and endorsed as canon by Frank Herbert. The concept is entirely consistent with the novels and within the setting. Your inability to believe or accept it as plausible within the story is irrelevant to its validity.
@@craigjones7343
Yes, I have known about its canonical status and Herbert's endorsement the whole time.
However, Mr. Herbert also liked Jodorowsky's insane screenplay for his movie version of Dune and later also endorsed Lynch's bland, mishandled film which Lynch himself strove to disown, but was not legally allowed to.
All that says quite a lot!!
Meaning that Mr. Herbert came across as someone who would be happy to endorse almost any crap with the brand name "Dune" slapped on it.
Fun fact: dragonflies are the most efficient hunters in the animal kingdom.
Great thing to model a military aircraft after.
insect design aircraft and vehicles will always be unique and beautiful and if not very practical
This franchise has great potential.A RTS game on a period not covered in movies or series could be great
There are several. In fact, Westwood’s Dune II is commonly considered the first ‘true RTS’ with many of it’s ideas carrying over to Command & Conquer. Dune’s DNA is all over the entire genre. A new one to ride off the film would be fantastic, though.
My 2. favorit thing in Dune2, After the Sonic Tank
The begining made me think of those Command and Conquer film in the first episodes.
When I was reading the book, my mind was not advanced enough to imagine theses aircrafts. So I imagined Paul Atreides flying a Bell UH-1 "Huey"
Flying this thing in flight sim is sick
Dude, that is one seriously cool vehicle concept.
Pretty much the _only_ thing I wanted from Villeneuve's version was proper 'Thopters, since the earlier attempts were just... YIKES!
Y'all gonna do a video on the Fremen?
The ornithopters instantly caught my eye when I first watched Dune
Interesting enough. Westwood's "Dune" series cited that ONLY Atreides uses combat ornithopters and no others did.
When I read the books I actually imagined them more like beetles but dragonflies are cool too
At one point, I had imagined thopters being more like birds. Like a big mechanical hawk.
Gotta make sure I watch this one before it gets copyright striked
Fun fact, such machine could never work with high efficiency computers to establish the complex movement… but computer’s are banned!
In Jack Vance's book THE KILLING MACHINE, a vehicle is built to mimic a giant centipede type organism. I'll not go into details,but the book is the second in a series of five and I believe that the staff at the Templin Institute should look into that particular author's works. My favorite of Mr Vance's books is the novella EMPHYRIO. Another fantastic read.
I wished someone would make a scale model of this. Its amazing.
They look like dragonflies!
You know under Beastiary Templin should totally do the sandworms!
I hope they dont strike this video it makes me want to see it
The movement of the wings is obtained by an oscillating magnetic field for the wing modules (ball where the wings are attached).
Awesome 👍 Thanks for this video 📹 🤩
Templin: join our discord!
Me: sure
18 attempts later
Me: guess not.
Ughh this makes me want a new Dune RTS.
The ornithopters are very cool to look at. VERY cool. I have to question their practicality, given that for any given state of materials science and propulsion technology, rotors simply deliver more energy before they start falling apart. Rotors and wheels and shafts and bearings aren't often seen in nature due to the nature of blood plumbing, muscles, and growth. But in machines where you're bolting parts and subassemblies together whole, spinning things generally make a lot more sense than reciprocating things. The piston engine is a notable exception, but there's a reason aviation has mostly abandoned them for rotor-based turbine engines. But, compared to vehicles which hover on "don't worry about it" technology, they're still remarkably practical. Not quite Avatar Samson duct-fan helicopter practical, but still obviously extensively thought-out.
Thank you the English subtitle.
That isn’t what the Imperium is called. Nor is it called the Machine God.
Yes, they were Thinking Machines, not a Machine God. I think the first book off-handedly mentioned a 'god of machine-logic', but that's almost certainly figurative.
they were "people using thinking machines" not AI itself
These are almost exactly as I imagined them when I read the book.
On 0:12 what's that fighter featured as the "Aerospace Craft" icon?
Not exactly the kind of flying aircraft I'd want for frontline or standard duties. Maybe as something sold for rear line work on unimportant worlds or basic local PDF forces.
I mean they seem more robust than Helos at least.
Name me one Helicopter that can keep flying with half its rotor blades ripped off.
@@johnwolf2349 And they can glide, no helicopter exist that can glide like that
I love the design of this thing
Very cool vehicular-looking bug.
I had only ever heard of dune I’ve never seen any of the craft before, I love this thing and i want it to be real
Sure that one copter will be a real concept to develop in some years
I wouldn't mind a model ornithopter. Whoever makes toys, get on this!
Duke Leto is a pilot in another life too
I can't get over how much these look like dragonflies
I love that design so much
If these things were real, the noise they'd make would make a Thunderscreech sound like a cabbage moth.