WE WERE COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT THESE RETRO YU-GI-OH! FORMATS!
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- Опубликовано: 17 июл 2024
- It's mostly Edison.
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I really like the whole thing of people playing through old formats and finding out the decks that won them aren't actually the best.
Which is why formats should be longer, gives people time to deckbuild and come up with counters to tier 0 BS, instead of *whine* powercreep *whine* repeat.
I couldn’t believe how many people where whining on teamAPS video about how formats should be longer, yugioh players are just a bunch of impatient whiny baby’s nowadays
Reminds of that time pro players in the Pokemon TCG played back to the first format and realized that a One-Energy Paralyze user with 80 HP was actually busted.
Are there any more examples of this normal compilations? @polocatfan
@@yeahitsmeimhere6921 I mean someone gave the pokemon example
@@PracticalinvestmentsI don’t agree; in the modern day formats are solved within approx. 3 months.
This is a 10/10 vid:
-Amazing dire intro+editing
-exceptionally interesting subject matter
-Dark worl
speedroid
trick or treat
D/D/D mentioned
I don’t understand why everybody is so slutty for dark worlds, but i am supportive of it. nostalgia?
Dire is just goated for her intro edits. Legit deserves a raise
The BEN 10 intro of all things I am beyond impressed, stuff was wild!
As a bit of an amendment to the point about HAT format, the explosive combo decks like Sylvans and Infernity do fairly poorly in present day HAT events because they are so laughably easy to prepare your side deck for. DD crow and Maxx C eat them alive (in addition to all the floodgates). Cards like this have applications in a wide variety of matchups, so they will never be falling out of favor any time soon.
Control decks like Geargia and Artifact Traptrix are still the top dogs of the format, but what has really fallen off are the Hands. As the format has developed throughout the years, people have gotten much better at dealing with Fire and Ice hand.
Other staples have taken their place in many of the decks that used to run hands. Artifact Traptrix prefers CardcarD and Geargia decks are rocking the classic triple upstart goblin.
Despite this, the hands are still fairly solid. Although they’re being played less in control decks, some combo decks like infernity enjoy having Fire and Ice hand in the side deck to help chew through the resources of control strategies.
Although the hands have taken a dip in popularity, they could potentially see a return to form as people begin preparing for them less and less. Such is the nature of an ever shifting metagame in a classic retro format.
I think MBT doesn't know that Maxx C has become basically a main deck staple in recent times. Combo decks are a bit hated out of the format. The best combo decks are the ones that don't have to combo off, like Mermail or Mythic Rulers.
Infernity is still nuts though, but I think people refrain from playing it because it's also a bit inconsistent and awful to play against. I would say that contributes to it not having as much success. If a few top players picked it up and played consistently, it could be a top 3-4 deck, easy.
It kinda baffles me, how combo deck could be even considered in format with Maxx "C" and no counters to him (coming from MD POV). You either play control style deck or play combo deck that can end the combo short and still play next turn.
@@danilinsquare346 It's mostly cause of soul charge being at 3.
@@danilinsquare346 The combo decks of older formats are a lot different than modern combo decks (Infernity and Sylvans basically play like modern combos decks though). If you want a good example of this, look no further than mythic ruler.
All of the dragon rulers are limited at this point, and the baby rulers are all banned along with dragon ravine.
In order to do any meaningful combos, you first have to thin your deck. This happens by resolving a bunch of draw spells, foolish burial/dragon shrine and Kuribandit.
Often times you won’t end on anything turn one in this deck, outside of a maybe a stray Felgrand or Stardust Dragon (game winningly strong if paired with skill drain 😁). The game is slow enough that decks can’t OTK you immediately. The only decks that put up enough damage have to sacrifice their battle phase to activate a soul charge first.
There’s reasonable back and forth in HAT format so maxx c isn’t as broken as it is in master duel
MBT keeps repeating this rubbish he seemingly just made up about HAT in every video where he talks about the format and I don't know why. As an active HAT player it has made me stop listening to most of what he says about other old formats from before he got into the game competitively because if he's so clueless about the formats I actually know about I have to assume he's equally wrong about other formats I'm not as familiar with
Love how this was released 2 days before Edison got ANOTHER breakthrough because Gemini became a strategy beyond Neos Alias in HERO thanks to Blazewing Butterfly
Not a format necessarily, but a deck. Legendary Six Samurai was Shi-En/Nat Beast/Shockmaster turbo back in its heyday. Many decks didn't even run Mizuho and Shinai because they weren't conducive to getting out those cards, but later way after the deck's peak, people would realize how easy it is to loop those two cards for infinite counters. It's kind of a head-scratcher that nobody was using that back then to just make a field of 5 synchros/xyz and passing, but that might be because other decks were so bad that the more streamlined strategy was good 'nuff and no further experimentation would be required.
It baffles me to this day. It took me five seconds to realize this loop on my own, how did people miss this? You can hard make a 5 mat Rhongomyniad in Six Samurai super easy, or FTK with Omega and Gagaga Cowboy if you have the time to spare.
@@joanaguayoplanell4912 for one, those cards were not legal when 6sams were at their apex lol
Love Six Sams ❤ them boys were my first Starter Deck getting back into YGO in 2012
No I know this one! This is because it wasn't yet widely known that you only needed to be able to generate 3 Bushido counters to go infinite with Red/Blue, and it was though the number you needed to generate was 4, which made the perceived hands that could do it a lot less common. A couple of pro players back in 2011 did eventually figure this out but it was so late into the format that it didn't really matter. For that entire format it was just considered a much brickier version of the deck and it was only figured out to not be true way too late, but yes, Red/Blue in particular was robbed lmao.
Yugioh players were built different back than. To us modern players their deck building and choices are beyond stupid (which they are), but in the past it was good enough to them.
Bit unconventional but first thing that came to mind was the first two days of the first xyz festival last year where people figured out suicide FTK was the "best deck" to farm points because you'd go through more games and receive 50 points a loss compared to a player with a normal xyz deck winning 100 for 1 game. Got to a stage where Konami had to emergency patch the game to fix the rewards.
I for one am 10000% terrified of the N/R event coming back because we are going to get absolutely dunked on by all the hardcores.
Remember the time Prank kids won a YCS and absolutely destroyed every single deck among the meta??? Yeah, it was before the link 1... That was amazing!! Nobody knew how to beat that deck!!
That was less of Prank-Kids being a genuinely good deck and a lot more of Dinh-Kha Bui being an absolute madlad when it comes to rogue decks. Runick Fur Hire rn is also his brain-child
Ok, I'm gonna be honest here, before this video, having only seem formats like goat and edison as they were played at their time, I couldn't be more unninterested, but now that I know that those formats have evolved due to their respective communities and how they've evolved, now I'm very intrigued and will probably be trying these out.
Well the "urge to top high tier events" is gone therefore creative deck builders can do their stuff now. Before it was not possible
@@sofaking9404 ??? is my english THAT bad that i could be missunderstood? where did i wrote that Panda Burn and stuff doesn't exist?? O_o
my point was: since now the "top tier" Tournaments are gone where everybody took the same meta deck to larger tournaments, creative Deck builders can now shine since they have more "time" to solve the meta/cardpool. Therefore some "new" decks are now top tier with cards nobody played/rarely played.
back then deckbuilding was of course influenced by known players who topped regulary therefore card choices were kinda fixed. Dude i played back then! I know the top German Players back then since some of them came from my region for example.
Fairies were only good because of Krystia. Lightsworn had their own card draw engine and field blowout. Therefore Lightsworn was considered "back then" way better then Fairies. Panda Burn didn't even made any big impack "back then" ... during "goat format times" though Burner was a thing.
I think Vendread also has an interesting scenario where it has like a +5 for free on Revendread Slayer that works with pre-prep but at the same time suffers from having some incredibly unplayable cards and having a hard time finding what to do with the material.
Yeah Vendreads can do a whole lot of stuff, but all that stuff pretty much ends on a whole lot of nothing. If the archetype had a few extra cards to let it end on something better, then it could definitely be a viable rogue deck.
Specifically N/R is probably because with N/R, specifically, the big boss monsters and playmakers are UR and/or S/R.
But with Vendread the boss monster that the entire archetype devolves around is R, and the playmakers are N/R. The SR/UR cards in the archetype could be considered win-more cards because the deck can function without them.
All that said, the main reason it's broken in N/R and not any other formats is that it's especially vulnerable to pretty much any form of disruption since all the archetype really does is bring out Slayer. So, all the stars align for it to be good in N/R.
Of course, Crusadia is also amazing in N/R. You draw a Kaiju and you basically instantly win.
@@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917 I dont know a ton about N/R since i dont really play too much yugioh nowadays but that makes sense. You kinda just need Slayer, the playmakers for it and a couple misc cards.
As much as I love the twitter threads, at this point I am just tuning in to see which show intro Dire will parody this week. By far the highlight of this series
Common Dire W
I don't know this one :(
@@manjackson2772 Ben 10
@@Farhan-ny8wt Mega Ben Ten
HAT format is different from how people thought at the time, but the best deck of the format is still probably just Artifact Traptrix control. People just cut the hand stuff which is genuinely too slow for a lot of matchups, maybe side them, and play Cardcar D and just win. Sylvan is good but I think modern yugioh players look at the deck and overestimate the end boards, how fast it can pop off, and how consistent it is. I personally don't think it holds up to the other best decks. Infernity is legit insane though but I think people knew that lol. But again, a bit inconsistent.
Sylvan isn't even in the top 4 for combo decks this format. As much as I love the deck (my favorite of all time).
Infernity, Mythics, and Mermail are all much more consistent and have much better grindgame. And they don't lose near as hard to Maxx C.
I remember the sylvan matchup as a HAT player; the sauce to winning back in the day was a mix of shit like needle ceiling in the side and i remember having success with a small ghostrick package to get access to tools like jackfrost, which could paralyze the deck once it popped off.
I remember my experience playing vs sylvan back then and for the most part it is still the same that I feel like I usually win if I win coin flip or if they don't get into soul charge. The combo ability it had just never sold it me because I felt like you could play mermail or infernity to better results.
Infernity outclasses Sylvans when it comes to setting up on turn one.
Mythic Ruler has a much better grind game than both of those decks, despite having a lower combo ceiling. Sometimes you don’t end on anything turn one, but you’ve drawn through half your deck and have a LOADED Graveyard.
Mermails never set up anything turn one, but it makes explosive plays in the mid-late game. It’s unmatched in its ability to go second in a format where everything else is terrified of losing the dice roll. (Don’t blind second tho, absolutely pick first in HAT format)
@@Raminator243 Very true all around. Mythic Ruler is so scary to play against lol, Felgrand is so good and skill drain is insane combined with a good grind game.
I absolutely love these types of historical format discussions, this and cimos two history series's are very good
The history series are really funny at the start but I can't watch the games. Sadly too often they are not that familiar with the deck so we end up on weak boards on the skill level of progression series. If you have some well played episodes tell me please
on your d/d/d point, the structure deck got delayed and only had like a week of legality before zoo (and ash blossom) was released. by the time zoo was fully addressed on the banlist, d/d/d was unplayable due to MR4
The other thing with d/d was that it was originally in a deck build pack in the ocg, then they went "nah, we're not importing this set" and basically made everyone wait 3+ years for the deck to be playable
even so, MBT’s point is that even if it wasn’t for zoo, the deck would not have been nearly as dominant as in the OCG. As it was pointed out, the TCG had to wait a LOT later before they got DDD at full power, at that point, the meta had definitely caught up and it was likely just better to play a deck with a much more solid base than one with a much higher ceiling
Definitely one of the best of the recent threads. MBT just going on about actual History (heh) is just so engaging.
One thing I find funny is when ragging on old formats is I actually remember seeing and playing against decks similar decks mentioned in this thread (panda murders were common in UK locals). Goes to show how having more than 6 months and taking off the rose tinted glasses can change a game.
UK is just different and usually weirder than other formats, so it might have more to do with that if you're a UK player. In the OCG they get cards earlier and have a different banlist, while in the TCG they get cards later, have some TCG-exclusive cards, and have a different banlist, so the games are radically different.
The UK versions of classic formats are, from my understanding, pretty odd. They're close to the TCG, but they received cards at different times which usually resulted in odd overlaps between formats. Like, formats are defined by which deck was the most dominant and are separated mostly by powercreep. So, in the UK where the format would start later because they got the cards later you'd get stuff like having cards that power-crept all of GOAT like Cyber Dragon being legal in the UK GOAT format, but not being as much of a problem because they got other cards that would power-creep those cards, or discovered ways to deal with them because their GOAT started with Cyber Dragon instead of ended with it.
Then, like, in more modern formats because the format in the UK would start later they'd bypass the initial experimentation of "Okay, let's test out these new cards to see what's good and what's not," so UK players would start their format at around the time when the best decks had been discovered and their meta would begin with "How do we counter those decks?" instead of "Which decks should we play?"
I too remember my opponent getting mauled to death by a panda in game 2, couldn't even side the poor bugger. That's why they don't have pandas in London Zoo anymore, because of Goat Format.
I mentioned the dozens of MD FTKs in a response to this and got a lot of backlash like “it HAS to win the coinflip.” But the thing was, decks like Pend FTK and similar MD FTKs had 90%+ going first FTKs but still very strong/competent backup plays/going 2nd abilities.
Keep coping dude
Pend FTK was a huge problem because they also weren't very handtrappable and thankfully got banned. As an 8 axis player though, ftks aren't typically a big problem.
dino ftk has a very good going second but dies to ash on misc sadly
@@Hungryfox1 dinos FTK going first or shred your board with unaffected UCT going second.
@@alanhe4476 not if you open Lost World.
During N/R format I discovered how fun it was for me to play Majespectre. Add to it that people didn’t read.
I feel like darkwing blast/pre Ishizu format could be an interesting one to explore. Tear was a strong yet beatable deck, Spright was still very viable, vernusylph became a strong engine, Bystials gave new found power to decks like Branded and Dlink, Labrynth got its support, pendulums got new shape with Dracoslayers, and Mathmech could've been on the top contenders.
So a few things about the Eddison era decks: all of these did see play in the Puerto Rico competitive scene, but a lot failed due to a few reasons: most lost to RFP control (anti-meta at the time), only Agents (one of the fairy decks) saw any actual success. In Fire/Water format, Blackwings was better than Dark World (everyone ran Macro Cosmo on their side board). My friend actually tried Bujin and Trick or Treat (both sucked horrendously) and I did see Gadgets get some success, but it lose to Fire Fist a lot.
It's amazing how there is no mention of the best and the most diverse ygo format of all time. Tengu Plants.
Both Jurracs and Archfiends have won tourneys in the tengu plant discord. Nordics are also pretty strong too.
The best thing is you can play rogue and compete with the top decks, something that isn't true in other formats.
Also there are super wild decks like falcon punch, which is the funniest way ive seen of abusing sangan, or naturia, which plays just tons of floaters and is kinda playable even without runic cards.
Maaan, I love Tengu as much as I love Edison because in Tengu, I can play with the Banish Psychic series of cards as a rogue option.
In Edison, I hate BWs, and in Tengu, I hate Agents. I get it. They're both relatively easy to play decks and you can consistently do good plays in longer tourney, but I am tired of those decks.
Tho not as tired as I am of HERO Beat which is available and good in both formats! Screw that.
What a based answer. I love the Tengu format exactly for that reason. Players think it is agents/Plants. Looking at results of our tournaments especially Agents underperform a lot. I still believe the game is strong but its strength is overestimated due to it being available so easily as a Structure Deck.
My favorite find of the Tengu format has to be the psychic control deck that no one played before.
@@Shinuslaw Yeah psychics are rather unexplored but super fun.
@@MrYouSerious tbf edison has the same 4 decks topping every tourney. while heroes are super popular in tengu they aren't the only top deck and rogue, innovative takes can win tourneys
I love learning about Yugioh TCG history.
I feel the DD overhype comment. Before I retired from competitive play I won my locals with a slightly modified 3x ABC structure deck against a locals swarming with DD. All i needed was a forbidden chalice/dress and field wipe to crumple the board.
It was an easy sweep I struggled more with the quarter final BA match than the finals.
I can contribute:
You can chain Ultimate Offering to stuff (even itself) to dodge Trap Hole's activation window, something I'm sure was not common knowledge in 2002.
Oh also, in the format called Yata, y'know the one where Yata inspired them to finally start banning cards completely, Yata Garasu is cute at best and gets cut or sided out a lot. It doesn't work if they have any card in hand or you're too few on cards in deck, and those things happen a lot.
On the availability of certain cards, there was a judge call round 1 of the edison side event at UK nats about whether we should be playing with the shonen jump promos or not which weren't legal in Europe (ab zero and trag). It was settled that we were playing by the US pool as that's what the players had shown up expecting
I know of two similar things. Giant hand was a price card during HAT, but now everyone pretty much runs it. Also, hundred-eyes dragon was a shonen jump promo during tengu format which was not allowed in EU at the time (direct nerf for synchro infernities).
So something I'd like to add to the sylvan post is that even when we discovered that sylvan was a top tier strategy a lot of players were still adverse to playing the deck. This was cause it revolved around a new mechanic in excavation that wasn't on enough cards yet to really be excepted by the wider player base (something I don't think happened till I think the release and subsequent popularity of kuribandit, correct me if I'm wrong).
There was also this popular perception that the sylvan deck was just really 5head, requiring your brain to be firing on all cylinders all the time. The closest comparison to how this deck was talked about in terms of its complexity in recent-ish memory is probably D/D/D. While it never got the spreadsheet treatment (at least not to my knowledge anyway) just the way people would talk about the skill and mental capacity required to pilot sylvan in any sort of optimal manner always struck me as being very similar to how people talked and still talk about the D/D/D's.
Nowadays the general mentality of yugioh players has changed to such a degree that something like sylvan doesn't seem all that crazy but back in the day it really was something that drove a lot of players away from it, myself included.
for HAT format, CAT is really good, Sylvan still represents no doubt, but it's hard to deal with cardcar d set 4 into 2 more traps, it really does outadvantage everyone else
Next Cimo series? Modern deck building vs History?
Lithium already does this.
@@AllThingsEntertaining sweet thank you for the info
i really wish magic had historic formats like this. I really want to go back and play formats like Kamigawa/Ravnica or Innistrad standard where all these cute strategies were explored
The problem with historic formats in other games is they have rotation. They are forced to leave a lot of formats behind while yugioh exists in a constant state of legacy. Cards staying legal until Konami hits the biggest names. That's why in Magic we saw the advent of alternative formats rather than historic ones such as Pauper and EDH. Additionally speaking, Magic has a multitude of available formats already that puts pokemon official formats and yugioh to shame for count of them. Pokemon has even gone that same route with GLC in very recent years.
Yugioh is such a hindsight game with side decks though that we've now started developing our way into those alternative formats with things such as Underdog and Common Charity with N/R being a perfect counterpart in the online side. I personally know people that play some historic pokemon now, but I full well expect this to enter the magic scene before too terribly long as the drastic shifts in banlists occur.
BTW, let's revisit Nekroz Format as the next big historic format. I wouldn't mind seeing people completely revisit how pendulums interact using modern theory.
@@braydenmcdaniel5319 none of that answers my question at all. Having rotation has nothing to do with time capsule formats like edison. Mtg formats are all future-looking. They exclusively ban cards from the past, but continue to accept every new card ever made.
I want to play time capsule formats
@@honeyham6788 I would be ok with encapsulating Theros-Khans of Tarkir Standard for eternity. BFZ was a blight on the game.
@@avarice25 i disagree. BFZ/KLD was my favorite era standard. I loved how diverse the cardpool was.
i had a lucid dream that i was playing you in a face to face yugioh match and summoned sprite elf with 2 level 3's then i realised i coldnt do that and and also realised i had no level 2 in grave and woke up sweating
Anything that aren't level 2's, truly a spright player's worst nightmare
That fire-water format tournament where you read the top four had 11 players...
That sounds like fire water format. I played then and would say part of the reason the format was pretty good was that fire fist was possibly the most beatable tier 1 deck to beat because of how it was played then. But I would say close to around 15 decks were viable enough to win tournaments of different sizes.
fire fist played like how it was mainly bc of konami delayed rooster's release tbh, which is a shame
I always chalked that up to poor timing because we did have 3 axis, but it was stuck in full power dragon ruler format. Then spirit got hit once we got out of it, so we never got to see just 3 axis as there was some 3.5 testing that I remember at the start of the format. On one hand it is unfortunate as I did enjoy 3 axis and was not a fan of how fire fist was built in fire water, but on the other hand I do think 3 axis would pushed fire fist strength up enough to harm the viability of some decks in the format without any upside.
So, I'm not sure what the name of the Format was called but, right after the first hit to Nekroz and banning of Djinn. That format, that format is my favorite format. Yes this was the era of "Tower's Turbo" but, seriously feel like this little format from July-Dec 2015 is heavily unexplored. I mean there were sooooo many decks playable around this time that hadn't seen much of any play because of all the new toys we got in DUAL and Tribe Forces.
I think I remember near the end of this format in particular Tower's Turbo had been running kind of rampant but I still feel as though there were SEVERAL ways to get around it, aside from summoning fking, Diamond Crab. Really hope this format gets attention at some point because this is the format I played the most in, with Ritual Beasts, running fking Non-Fusion Area because Contact Fusion is not a "Fusion Summon." funny af against Shaddol Players. I just remember encountering so many different decks online during this format and having quite a bit of fun playtesting different decks. I feel like this format just simply HAD to have more going on in it than at first glance, everyone always glosses over this era as being another "Nekroz" format but, Nekroz wasn't the best deck back then either, Djinn getting banned and Shurit to 1 really hurt Nekroz and several different decks like Tellarknight, Shaddol, Qli and Burning Abyss saw tops all over.
Love your content MBT. God bless you and your wife. Hope you have an amazing rest of your summer/year
Zombies being strong in Edison was the biggest non-surprise for me. I remember a friend of mine topping in nationals back when (or at least close to when) it was the current format.
Mention to Duel Links: During Melodious-Harpies-Clock Tower Hero format towards the end of 2021, the best deck was actually Darklord by a mile
The intro was short this time, but god DAMN did it hit me hard
Alternative video title, “I love Edison and this is why you should too”
I'm stealing that title tyvm
People mention how nobody knew Zombies were insane back during Edison, but I have to say otherwise. Some random dude at my college who played YGO with us figured it out and his Zombie deck not only did everything you mentioned, but also was one of the hardest decks to deal with. lol
i was exactly thinking of vendreads in NR format too xD, i played back during the first turnament in master duel, and it rocked! specefically the fact that it could sorta do anything it wanted and the boss monster (vendread slayer) is super hard to out, it floats into itself when it leaves the field (searches a ritual spell and can ritual summon from GY) the ritual spell itself is like branded opening's GY effect but for slayer specefically and it had some seriously good matchups, i never lost to time lords because jelly cannon is a legit card and i remember playing a lot against preformapal popper up (a stall strategy that summons 5 tokens) that sorta just looses to trackblack pointing to vendread slayer while the field spell is up.
and if you played the deck somewhat well, vendread slayer was the equivalent to mirror jade but in NR, banishes stuff and is really hard to get off the field while abel to adapt to all situations
i'm pretty sure people don't even *play* hat anymore...like, the deck itself. it's "cat" now; *cardcar artifact traptrix*
I feel like at some point TOSS format will see Lightsworn Striker Orcust be the best deck. I really think that if the format would have went a few more weeks we would have seen that happen because the deck was starting to pop up right before the list
Vendread was actually crazy in n/r format, I played it and almost never lost.
I actually played dark world in 2012 because i thought it was absolutely busted (even if i had no idea what i was doing)
I remember thinking "how can a constantly returning 2700 beatstick and loads of draws not be good??"
I was super ahead of the times, I was running dark world with triple Vanity’s Emptiness when nobody ever ran the card in any deck. I was like “This seems a lot like Royal Oppression, I just summon Grapha and then flip this on their turn? And I can still make plays with the field spell without blowing it up.”
Usually 3000atk. It's pretty easy to counter though
Dark world while super good was kinda held back by people maining macro in stun or dino rabbit though. Disregarding modern deckbuilding.
Honestly, I was surprised how fun HERO is when playing NR in master duel, since most of their meta cards are SR or UR, but given the amount of support for specific named fusions that is NR, and the fact there's a Lunalight card that searches poly really easily, you can pretty easily get a HERO fusion out on the board.
I’ve been playing combo labyrinth with furniture ever since Lady of the Labrynth came out, lots of ways to build the deck depending on the format.
I think there should be an entry in this video for how a lot of main deck cyberse cards were very good and very playable for an extremely long time yet they only saw play way way past their release while they weren't the best
Didn’t Cimo play that rescue cat deck in goat format in history of Jank? Pretty ironic.
What I mind about that series is that they are never informed if that certain deck is jank or if the opinion on it has changed over time. They just shout JANK and are appaled that they even have to play with those decks. MBT not as much, but Cimo is a big offender of that.
Atleast put some wee bit of research into it, there's a discord for everything.
Cat/Panda Burn has existed in Goat for awhile but hops in and out of the meta. It disappears when players start siding for burn and then returns when players stop worrying about it.
12:53 Well, you never know, I hear two guys run a history of Yu-Gi-Oh series. They might not find a new way to play the format, but they will definitely play this format again and talk about how the format went.
I started playing somewhat competitively exactly at the end of TOSS format. I didn't want to spend a lot of money, so I played Flower Cardians. I know, high roll deck with really low ceiling... but it counters every single letter in TOSS:
- can't search because of TD Colossus? Who cares, before Cherry Blossom nobody could except with a RotA;
- TD Titan pops? Lightshower grants targetting and destruction protection to all of my monsters;
- for the exact same reason, Sky Striker couldn't do anything, considering that at the time every card in that deck said "target" or "destroy";
- Orcust and Salamangreat rely on GY effects and summons from there? Boardefly is literally a one-sided Necrovalley;
- again, for the same reason Raye couldn't revive herself from the GY.
To top it off, Flower Cardian Peony with Butterfly lets you Ancient Telescope your opponent, meaning that you almost always know what deck they're playing before their turn even starts, and the boss monster has 5000 ATK and a S/T negate, as well as a monster negate in battle that doesn't start a chain, meaning that Gren Maju and Avramax couldn't do anything.
I played big tournaments during Edison format. The issue was that the format changed too quickly. Adam Corn won LA regional with zombies, and everyone started looking at them. Some other guy won SJC LA with Kristya Lightsworn. Plants was crazy, zombie plants, was a thing... People didn't have time to test, really.
Lot of limited series exist after Cimo launched the Yugioh Progression series. And Chaos is a deck that's very often resorted to across the GX era and even some time after Duelist Genesis. But somehow the player base never learns how bad of a card Chaos Sorcerer is, no matter how much they brick on him and how often the opponent just clocks you after you drop him and fail to make a meaningful push that turn.
people really has a thing for sorc in goat, it makes them lazy.
0:10 You KNOW the video is gonna be good when the first image on screen is your boy GRAPHA, DRAGON LORD OF DARK WORLD!!!!
I remember playing at an event with some friends during early duea format and the generally accepted theory by at least our group was that the best deck was easily shaddoll, and ba was second best. Teller was only a good choice if you didn’t have time to practice shaddoll.
I think the logic still holds true. Teller wasn’t the best deck, but it was definitely the easiest to play of any of them and you were probably worse off playing the shaddoll mirror poorly then playing the uphill battle with teller.
Agree. It's way harder to grind through Tellarknights backrow with dolls or BA then it is for tellar to just flip shadow Imprisoning mirror and hope for the best
I haven't pointed this out before but like, Reverse of Arcadia on the DS might be a fun way to explore the Edison Format, since that's basically where the whole game takes place.
Mostly agreed with everything except Sylvan being one of the best decks in HAT.
100% the best decks are HAT and Geargia (which is a combo deck with a solid control backbone).
Sure, tons of deck are viable and you can play a myriad of variations of HAT and Geargia (I.e. respectively fire by putting hands in the side and gadgets by switching into a more rank4 spam strat).
The thing about decks like Sylvan and Infernity is they have an hard time going second and post side they share tons of silver bullets like debunk, skull meister, d.d. crow, flying "c". Also Maxx c is basically in every main deck at 2-3 copies...
Dire, don't stop with the intros. They're too good.
I always wondered how old formats changed once new eyes looked at them, very cool video
I cannot unsee that ben 10 opening now
“These days we recognize the power of disrespect” is hands down one Joseph’s best quotes
Seeing those 3 Last Wills makes me feel so good. I miss that card so much.
Lot of good and fun information in this video but I was too busy bopping to the wind waker great sea theme in the background
I know MBT highlighted Constellar as the last Set-Pass deck but it is funny how much of this video is actually "This Set-Pass format is actually Combo Crazy"
So one thing i noticed that nobody ever really picks up on, there was a time from like. 2009 to late 2013 where Dimensional Fissure and Macro Cosmos were both at 3, with all the graveyard reliant decks running around like DaD, Lightsworn, Zombies, synchron variants, sabers, infernity etc. Banish focused decks either for monarch plays with Caius Raiza and Mobius, or for straight control/beat style with Gren Maju were sneakily quite powerful. With only 1 MST for a while and 1 Heavy Storm you had to pick and choose when to out the floodgate to get good use out of the 1 turn you had before they set it up again.
What killed it was d-fiss and macro going to 1. plus the following year was the start of Duelist Alliance format where pendulums would start to take over.
At the time, Tellarknight was seen as the 3rd best deck by a wide margin. BA and Dolls were always 1 and 2, even back then.
This isnt true, before the release of NECH, BA was only 5 cards, the format was essentially a 2 deck format of Shaddoll and Tellarknight, with some Yang Zing and Ba. It wasnt until they received Fire Lake in NECH that they were a tier 1 deck historically
@@wren5413 Nah BA were already topping with the original variant of using Rank Up Magic in Dante to get into Pleiades and other good rank 5, Fire Lake did change the main variant that people used.
@@wren5413 That's wrong, BA were topping after the actual DUEA set with decks like Jeff Jones's ARGCS Indy trap BA list which took 1st place in September of 2014
@@wren5413 definitely was top tier in DUEA. 4 of those 5 cards were already excellent and its floating/recursion/grind game put it solidly in that #2 slot. Dolls were head and shoulders above anything else. Also, Astral force and trap BA saw solid tops back then.
Fire lake helped close the gap between it and dolls (as well as helping vs Qlis that came in that set). It was t1 pre-NECH tho.
Yeah discard trap ba with raisa and caius was an awesome deck back in the day
MBT you should do an equivalent series to history of yugioh where you go through the modern decks people have built for those formats
This is really interesting, is there somewhere that I can learn more about how things like deck building theory have changed and advanced over the years?
Other than seeing it with Cimooo and MBT's History of Yugioh series I am unaware of many resources.
Road to the King has some "old" deck theory stuff that isn't applicable to now
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 Thanks, those will at least give me a good place to start and even if some of it isn't really applicable anymore I still think it will be interesting
Joe Giorlando is an absolute legend and encyclopedia of early yugioh. He runs a small channel called ygo_history where he's covered almost every major format/shift from troop dupe to hat
Or if you really want to go digging into old 2000-2020 meta discussion pojo has *many* gbs of text to sift through
Honestly D/D/D got skyrocketed in playability when Gilgamesh dropped the only issue now is when playing the deck pure witch is the usual brew getting a negate up before gilg is pretty impossible because he is your combo starter and just eats hand traps
And even Machinex doesn't fully solve the issue. Sometimes, Machinex pass just doesn't cut it
I do find it funny that I both played yet unrealized decks that were amazing back during the formats they were in, like Bujins, while also playing the decks that clearly were not like Satellars. Using things like Constellars Belt in Satellars during that time because the deck was so hyped people were either main decking or boarding anti-light and negation cards, just to ensure that I could play it uninterrupted as if it were a combo deck.
To this day my friends still say that when they think of what deck suits me, it's Bujins. It remains my pet deck and I hope that somehow, someway it returns to relevance.
For anyone interested in the modern deck building of the oldest formats, I’d recommend the channel ygofrom0. He even made a bunch of videos on the format that lasted only a few days where the Yugi/Kaiba structure decks were out before the first banlist.
I really want MBT to return to this topic as a stand alone video. Just talking down retro formats and the evolution of them.
Also if he reads this do a weekly meme round up video instead of posting it right after prog as a side thing
Can't wait for the year 2030, when we will discover that the best deck during the Tearlaments meta was watt plus a million floodgates like necrovalley, macrocosmos, etc... But people, turns out, actually like playing the game and that's why it was never discovered until then.
can't wait for recurring N/R format in MD
Fun y how all the"oo edision stuff" was stuff i loved to abuse in the 5ds games
speedroid tweet is my friend!!! love you sean!!!
Edison is exactly the power level the primary format of the game should hover around. Maybe some weaker formats some stronger but it should be the benchmark all other formats are judged.
Obviously now its combo lines and you're aiming to win within the first couple of turns. I hope Konami does something because the current pace of the game is unsustainable
Holy cannoli! That’s my cat deck!
I always feel special when people mention furniture lab being a good deck. I've been playing it as my main deck basically since it came out (which is also when I started playing again--last time was in 2008), and started playing MD because of it.
It's always been good at worst. Disrupting backrow is only a setback, and doesn't autolose on the spot, and if you pop your own monsters with the field spell up, when they duster you, you still gain a ton of resources to clap back with, and often times can still play.
I played Vendread back when we had the N/R event in MasterDuel and lost a total of 4 or 6 times after way over 50 duels. It absolutely felt like it was a tier 0 deck in the event.
Dam have me excited to play edison, casually mind you, at a time hand traps and other plagues this game has produced itd be nice to play sensible cards, just some need to go like Vanities emptiness and ugly floodgates
I deck NOBODY knew was insane was Chaos Dragon after the Lightsworn structure (mid 2014), because Wyvernburst and blackserpent were dropped a year before nobody saw the interaction with the tuner lightsworns, Kuribandit was also just made printed, that was the format Soul Charge and Eclipse Wyvern was legal, you can immagine how good a deck that mills a lot and goes into many synchros could be at the time of Soul Charge, I often searched for DAD and Darkness Metal Dragon with Eclipse or with Lightpulsar, it got even better after the release of burning abyss because I could search Tour and then go into Leviatan and bring back Eclipse once again, it didnt particularly need Dante but only Scarr and so it was very cheap and useless to say when I tried it I blow off my local, I stopped playing right after that so I never taken advantage of that discovery but it was crazy good.
Wish I had played more Dark World back in 2012, I played the Into the Voids, Upstarts, and Skill Drains in my deck rarely ended on anything less that 2 Graphas
I remember using YVD and Hamachi to test decks, it was popular back then but extremely primitive
Speaking of GOAT, a more recent deck that’s been doing good is Cold Wave Monarchs. Using Cyber Stein to get a 4200 Des Koala out and turning off S/T’s is really good and fun.
Hope this deck gets more mentions. One of my favorites of that format. Cold Wave+Mobius is backbreaking and no one sees it coming. Plus Last Will is absolutely busted in that deck.
Has that deck gotten better recently? I was trying it and only had mixed success with it. The list I based my deck off of only had 1 Stein though so maybe I should give that deck another go with some tweaks.
Personally I've been playing some aggro versions of Chaos decks which I've enjoyed a lot more than the slower control builds. I have one that's Ritual Chaos and can bring out Zorc, and another that runs Bazoo and Dimension Fusion to quickly get a board full of beaters.
Not exactly a real format, but I used to pilot a chaos dragon on yu-gi-oh arc v tag force special. It's based off of the ocg format on October 2014 with a few changes, and the deck absolutely rocks with a shaddoll engine. Of course it's kinda hard to beat the infamous shaddoll, Qliphort and Nekroz, but not exactly impossible by any means. The deck was able to break savage boards, or on rare occasions make an unbeatable board on his own
1:33 Actually, numbers suggest is more like 3rd best deck, maybe 2nd considering it's around the same level as Warrior, but is clearly behind Chaos Turbo.
5:00 I'm sure it was considered good, but that it lost too much from the last banlist. As it turns out, it was still quite competent and with absurd pop-off turns, just needed to supplement it with stuff like return from different dimension and Caius.
9:50 I'm VERY SURE that HAT is not that combo centric. From my short experience, a lot of openings are Normal summon myrmeleo for bottomless, set up 3 traps or spells (Including an artifact), and pass. Also people set ice hands, Geargiarmor, an abyssteus search + mill, normal summon Magician of prophecy to get a ridiculous combo in their next turn, Cardcar D to draw 2, Magileine for a diet spellbook combo, Dark Grepher into some mills for the future or a small combo who leads into a singular level 3 or 4 XYZ. Maxx C for once is making the meta healthier because of how it punishes solitaire combo decks and rewards decks who can consistently put a single XYZ per turn.
I took satellarknight to a regional where I had to play against PATRICK HOBAN and it was so very clear to me that I was not a good enough player to be playing that deck and would've done much better with the dark matter hieratic deck sitting in my backpack.
during toss format after sala got hit you could also play striker sala to get faster to your Stuff and kagari is a fire monster. sunlight + trap + widow and stuff was good but never played lol
Original DN login screen jumpscare.
What does "old world style deck building" ( 9:35 ) mean? ty
I fucking love N/R format because megalith is literally my favorite archetype
I like this video A lot please do more like this but instead could you just do a video essay on each format and how they evolved from being looked back on
starting to believe the mbt mispronounces on purpose allegations, gyakugire panda is a perfect target and he just says it normally, almost perfectly
he can actually pronounce things, he just can't read
except for the ones that are on purpose. those are on purpose.
Yo, the whole section on fairies feels so funny to me. I absolutely played fairies during the edison format era. And it was great!
Fairy is arguably the best control deck of the format. It never goes out of steam, has an amazing boss, can work with Lightsworms if you want backro hate, can main deck Shadow mirror for blackwings and plague spreader, and has 6 recruiters and archetype handtraps with Heralds.
All in all, the definition of a good tier 2-3 deck. Not tier 1 because Blackwings and Vayu turbo exist and is a bit passive as other control decks, but it's still a deck you must take seriously.
The thing is what put vendread over the egde is the newer lv 6 that turns thier rituap from deck into rota as well.
The Dark World skill drain one is not true, people tried it too many times it was a normal DW deck that you saw time to time but it never fully worked to be an actual meta threat ( maybe except for once in a like less than a month ). Also Dimensional Prison was broken on these formats idk what mbt's on about
This makes me want to go back and play Edison
God damn, the ben 10 intro had me howling.
Another note on HAT format, not only has a lot of combo nonsense evolved in that format, but "HAT" itself with the hands is no longer the most optimal way to play Traptrix style control. Nowadays stuff like CAT (Cardcar D) has seen more success.