I believe that Palpatine would goad the jedi into the war by openly having Count Dooku reveal himself as a Sith, forcing the jedi to be in an ideological war.
Or maybe make the cis to attack critical place to the the jedi like jedi temple somewhere or even the main jedi temple in coruscant and make them want to revenge(even if jedi are not supposed to)
@@galadato7425 Yup. Palpatine could increase the number of atrocities the CIS commits. Such as targeting civilian populations, fire bombing cities, wiping planets off the map and so much more. He could train Sith assassins as terrorists to kill civilians. There really is no end to what he could do to provoke anger in the Jedi.
If the Jedi avoided the Clone Wars: Obi-wan: decided to grow his hair out. Mace “Jules” Windu: decides grows his hair out. Anakin: still secretly disillusioned with the Jedi so keeps hair the same.
So even if the Jedi didn’t join the war Order 66 would eventually still happen. Talk about a damned if you do, damned if don’t type of situation for the Jedi.
This would leave many more alive afterwards though, crucially it would probably see most of the high council live meaning the Jedi as an order would live on instead of for all intents and purposes, dying.
@@Phantom8941 Considering how flawed the Jedi Order was, this might not be a good thing. For all the bad things about the Sequel Trilogy, Luke was right about the Jedi needing to die out.
@@robertnelson9599 Whatever "flawed" rules they had were born out of experience, for example no deep attachments/no marriage was born from the old jedi order letting it happen then when a Jedi's kids/spouse is in danger, threatened or killed, they lose their shit, fall to the dark side and become a massive threat to everyday people. Luke's order is a great example as in 30 years they were constantly bleeding members to the darkside with havoc ensuing. George Lucas made it pretty clear, using the force is all about sacrifice, if you can't sacrifice and be selfless, the force isn't for you.
@@jasomjensai-starwars2652 They'd have the numbers and the leadership to fight back though, and if the order's members that survived lasted like they did in legends without leadership, they could only do even better grouped up in large numbers, leading the rebellion.
I think that you covered everything but you forgot one key thing. In the past the Jedi abstained from wars which to their knowledge didn't include the Sith like the Mandalorian wars. However the CIS was led by Dooku who was a Sith. And this was a perfect reason for the Jedi to join the war which is exactly what the genius Palpatine wanted. The Clone Wars were inescapeable trap no matter what the Jedi did.
The Jedi could have only involved themselves in capturing Dooku. Or they could have dedicated themselves to peace negotiations and informing the separatist parliament of these war crimes which they were largely unaware of.
A group of Jedi would had gotten involved just like Revan did in the Mandalorian Wars and drag them into it anyway. Especially if they find out Dooku is a Sith named Darth Tyrannus.
To be fair, the mandalorians were dedicated specifically to fighting the jedi and were only attacking the republic for that end. More over the Order of the clone wars was quite different fron that of the mandalorian wars and so a schism might be less likely.
The opposite would happen. Many Republic officers who would later be Imperials have no problems sending Stormtroopers to die by the bucketloads so long as the job's done. They also have no problems committing war crimes. If they're that careless with enlisted men, imagine how they'll treat clones. They'll treat them like organic battle droids and you'd see clone deaths quadruple at the very least.
@@HolyknightVader999 I disagree with that personally. Without Jedi, there would be another form of military command structure of people who are actually experienced, instead of the horrible leadership of the Jedi. Just look at Geonosis for example. The Jedi were never good at leading the war, even towards the end, so it would likely mean that more clones would be alive due to competent command.
@@KosherPorky Yeah, NO. The Jedi have been waging summer wars for 1000 years before the Clone Wars. They even were knowledgeable about military history and they defeated Admiral Trench and Iago Stark prior to EPII. And in Geonosis, we saw the Jedi take command of the clones, and in mere minutes, the droids were pushed back. All that crap about Jedi being bad at war was bull-crap written by Karen Traviss and other authors who hate the Jedi, whereas TCW, the classic Battlefront II, Galactic Battlegrounds, and many other works showed Jedi Generals as capable leaders and generals. Geonosis did show a lot of clone deaths, but that was due to the scale of the battle. That, and no cover would last when A) the enemy uses missiles and tank droids, and B) the enemy was bum-rushing you in large numbers and even the SBDs have wrist rockets. "It's been said that the 501st got the best of the war. We also got the worst. On Felucia, the Seps dug their metal heels into the muck of that alien hellhole and dared the Republic to come in after them. So we did, only to be met with month after month of flesh-eating diseases, shrieking nocturnal predators, and other sights that haunt me to this day. Cut off and for all we knew abandoned by our superiors, our only hope was Aayla Secura, our Jedi commander. Without her iron will, none of us would have come out of that mess with our sanity, or our lives. When her death came, I hope it was quick. She earned that much. When the 501st was finally rotated out of Felucia, Aayla Secura made a point of seeing us off personally, calling us the bravest soldiers she had ever seen. It's a good thing we were wearing helmets, because none of us could bear to look her in the eye." Anonymous 501st Legion soldier, Star Wars Battlefront II (2005) on the topic of Felucia and the Jedi General, Aayla Secura "They're good. No words needed. Perfect sync. Like clones in a way. Better. They're the best. That's why they command." Clone Commander Bly, Star Wars Republic, issue 68 Part of the reason why the Republic managed to hang onto life despite the fact that the CIS droids were in the quintillions is because Jedi Generals were good at war and managed to beat back endless legions of droid soldiers with limited numbers of clone and nonclone soldiers. Their capacity to sense danger and their abilities in the Force to predict the enemy allows them to win battles even when their armies are outnumbered, and in most fronts, the Jedi were winning, unless you have someone more strategically brilliant like Trench, Grievous, Sev'rance Tann, or Ventress commanding the Separatists. Meanwhile, the military officers who served under the Republic, who later became Imperial admirals and generals under the Empire, have no compunction about battlefield losses. During the time of the empire, they had no problems tossing large waves of Imperial Army soldiers and Stormtroopers at the enemy until the enemy falls. If they're that careless about enlisted men with families and friends, they'll be twice as careless with clone troopers who have no families, no friends, no loved ones outside the army. They'll treat the clones like organic battle droids and throw wave after wave of clones against the enemy until they run out of clones or the enemy is vanquished. Essentially, they'll be like Krell, except without the intention of betrayal. That part in SOLO where Han Solo's commanding officer tried to push his men forward despite heavy enemy fire is typical of Republic and Imperial officers. While the Jedi would serve as flashy human shields and would conserve their men until they see a weakness in the enemy before they strike, Republic officers who would later become imperials would send wave after wave of disposable clones until the enemy falls or they run out of clones. These same officers also have no compunction about committing war crimes, which means that clones would get more PTSD over killing enemy civilians since killing civilians can cause so much PTSD that even the Nazis stopped having soldiers kill unwanted civilians and shipped them to concentration camps instead. And of course, the bad PR caused by such war crimes will end with more star systems joining the Separatists. Essentially, without Jedi leadership, the war would end in a decisive CIS victory. The Republic officers, most of whom are like Tarkin or Ozzel, will either order clones to commit war crimes or send clones to die in droves, probably both. Without the Jedi generals' capacity to predict enemy movements or their precognition in the Force, all you're stuck with are regular generals and admirals whose forces are outnumbered by an insane margin. With the CIS armies being numerically superior, all the clones would do is cause a dent in their lines, while in the few battles the Republic wins, the clones commit war crimes that cause more systems to join the Separatists. The CIS forces and Republic forces both throw droids and clones at each other willy-nilly, but unlike the Republic officers, Confederate generals and admirals have no shortage of droids to throw at the enemy. It then ends with the CIS taking over Coruscant and killing the pacifist Jedi, after the clones and Republic officers were beaten in battle. Palpatine reveals himself to be Darth Sidious, and he takes command of the CIS forces and proclaims himself Emperor.
Count Dooku would be in charge of the Separatist Army while the Senate would have to vote a new Supreme Chancellor. This could lead to heated debates between Palpatine's followers who would want the new Supreme Chancellor to keep all the powers that he acumulated and those senators like Padme Amidala and Bail Organa who would want to remove the powers of the Chancellor before election. While the Republic elects a new leader the Separatist Army still unified under Dooku and no longer manipulated by Palpatine would begin to regain ground and turn the war in it's favor. The Civil War would last more years. During that time Padme gets pregnant, Anakin begins to have the nightmares but Palpatine is not there to temp him, eventually Padme gets hurt during an assassination attempt from Palpatine's followers, he gets mad and kills the perpetrators. His relationship with Padme is exposed and he is expelled from the Jedi Order, pushing him to the Dark Side. However the public takes Anakin's side due to his status as hero and many senators see a chance to end the internal and propose him to be the new Supreme Chancellor, he accepts the proposal and gets elected with a great majority. At that point the Jedi realized that he fell to the Dark Side and try to arrest him but he escapes. Things would turn similar to Episode III, Anakin would denounce the Jedi Order and declare them criminals but because he is not aware of the Order 66 many clones help the Jedi to escape. It is very likely that many of the youngest Jedi and those who disagreed with the Council would join Anakin, splitting the Order. Eventually Anakin would defeated Dooku, end the Civil and become Emperor, with the Sith gone, and an order of Dark Jedi hunting the remaining Jedi in the new Empire. A very important issue would is that Padme survives, because she would keep Anakin from fully falling into the Dark Side, creating an equilibrium between both sides and fullfilling the Prophecy.
Here’s another what if scenario to do Alan: What if Thrawn’s Tie Defender Elite program was mass produced? = with or without Thrawn… Advantages and Disadvantages video for both the empire and star fighter.
I mean they probably wouldn't have as many tactical disasters due to jedi not being trained to do that like the clones who could actually do it but weren't given command over everything. But then the jedi are actually pretty good warriors that did help them a lot in some cases and could sway the outcome of battle just enough.
Many Jedi were well-versed in military strategies and were already fighting summer wars for 1000 years before the Clone Wars. In fact, in EPII, we saw the Jedi take command of the clones, and in mere minutes, the droids were pushed back. All that crap about Jedi being bad at war was bull-crap written by Karen Traviss and other authors who hate the Jedi, whereas TCW, the classic Battlefront II, Galactic Battlegrounds, and many other works showed Jedi Generals as capable leaders and generals. "It's been said that the 501st got the best of the war. We also got the worst. On Felucia, the Seps dug their metal heels into the muck of that alien hellhole and dared the Republic to come in after them. So we did, only to be met with month after month of flesh-eating diseases, shrieking nocturnal predators, and other sights that haunt me to this day. Cut off and for all we knew abandoned by our superiors, our only hope was Aayla Secura, our Jedi commander. Without her iron will, none of us would have come out of that mess with our sanity, or our lives. When her death came, I hope it was quick. She earned that much. When the 501st was finally rotated out of Felucia, Aayla Secura made a point of seeing us off personally, calling us the bravest soldiers she had ever seen. It's a good thing we were wearing helmets, because none of us could bear to look her in the eye." Anonymous 501st Legion soldier, Star Wars Battlefront II (2005) on the topic of Felucia and the Jedi General, Aayla Secura "They're good. No words needed. Perfect sync. Like clones in a way. Better. They're the best. That's why they command." Clone Commander Bly, Star Wars Republic, issue 68 Part of the reason why the Republic managed to hang onto life despite the fact that the CIS droids were in the quintillions is because Jedi Generals were good at war and managed to beat back endless legions of droid soldiers with limited numbers of clone and nonclone soldiers. Their capacity to sense danger and their abilities in the Force to predict the enemy allows them to win battles even when their armies are outnumbered, and in most fronts, the Jedi were winning, unless you have someone more strategically brilliant like Trench, Grievous, Sev'rance Tann, or Ventress commanding the Separatists. Meanwhile, the military officers who served under the Republic, who later became Imperial admirals and generals under the Empire, have no compunction about battlefield losses. During the time of the empire, they had no problems tossing large waves of Imperial Army soldiers and Stormtroopers at the enemy until the enemy falls. If they're that careless about enlisted men with families and friends, they'll be twice as careless with clone troopers who have no families, no friends, no loved ones outside the army. They'll treat the clones like organic battle droids and throw wave after wave of clones against the enemy until they run out of clones or the enemy is vanquished. Essentially, they'll be like Krell, except without the intention of betrayal. That part in SOLO where Han Solo's commanding officer tried to push his men forward despite heavy enemy fire is typical of Republic and Imperial officers. While the Jedi would serve as flashy human shields and would conserve their men until they see a weakness in the enemy before they strike, Republic officers who would later become imperials would send wave after wave of disposable clones until the enemy falls or they run out of clones. These same officers also have no compunction about committing war crimes, which means that clones would get more PTSD over killing enemy civilians since killing civilians can cause so much PTSD that even the Nazis stopped having soldiers kill unwanted civilians and shipped them to concentration camps instead. And of course, the bad PR caused by such war crimes will end with more star systems joining the Separatists. Essentially, without Jedi leadership, the war would end in a decisive CIS victory. The Republic officers, most of whom are like Tarkin or Ozzel, will either order clones to commit war crimes or send clones to die in droves, probably both. Without the Jedi generals' capacity to predict enemy movements or their precognition in the Force, all you're stuck with are regular generals and admirals whose forces are outnumbered by an insane margin. With the CIS armies being numerically superior, all the clones would do is cause a dent in their lines, while in the few battles the Republic wins, the clones commit war crimes that cause more systems to join the Separatists. The CIS forces and Republic forces both throw droids and clones at each other willy-nilly, but unlike the Republic officers, Confederate generals and admirals have no shortage of droids to throw at the enemy. It then ends with the CIS taking over Coruscant and killing the pacifist Jedi, after the clones and Republic officers were beaten in battle. Palpatine reveals himself to be Darth Sidious, and he takes command of the CIS forces and proclaims himself Emperor.
@@HolyknightVader999 If you dont like her stories its ok but please respect her And the Jedi were indeed a little bad in strategies at first but obviously they got better after sometime(Based on everything I watched and read I think it only took them a few Months to learn) (Sorry for my bad English)
@@fabianrocha9924 No, I don't, because she doesn't respect the story of Star Wars. No, the Jedi weren't bad at strategies at all. Even in many EU works they had good strategies honed from 1000 years of fighting summer wars and local wars for the Republic. Your English is OK.
@@HolyknightVader999 The Droids Were Pushed Back Because They Weren't Even TRYING To Win In The First Place. If It Was An Actual Battle The GAR And The Jedi Would Have Been Wiped Out Because Of The Dumb Jedi Strategy Of: Charging A Fortified Position While In A Numerical Disadvantage.
I would like to agree with a post here in the comment section. The jedi were competent battle field commanders as it was actually a course taught as part of the jedi training. Most jedi were alright at it and could easily be sidestepped by the like the grevious or trench. There was that 15 percent tho that were great tacticians, but that is different from a strategist. Strategist see the wider picture while tacticians more or less see what in front of them. It's just like game of thrones were Tywin Lannister saw the wider picture of the war while Robb Stark saw the battle. You can be a horrible strategist while excell at battle. Palpatine would be a great example of a Strategist, while Anakin is a great battle tactician
Very well thought out. I do feel like Anakin was shoe horned in just cause of who he is. There were far more experienced Jedi that felt strongly about the war. And could have led others against the council's wishes.
what i they joined the war, bt not as generals, since they didn't have the training to do so, but as a spec-ops. units, a small-scale tactical-teams to disrupt and undermine separatists war effort?
Didn‘t the jedi have a section of their order specifically trained for espionage and sabotage? Or was that dissolved after the last sith war? If they did, these teams most likely existed but simply aren’t covered yet.
The Jedi refusing to join the war in the first place would of made the tension and outcome of the first three movies so much more interesting. Not saying they weren’t good but man.
What if the Jedi had a different role during the clone wars that was suitable for the fact that they are monks? What if they only got involved when there was a Jedi matter?
in EU history, the Jedi are often denounced depending on the state of war in that era, most often if the Republic is losing or lost a war regardless of whether the jedi took part or not.
You know what I like you to do, "What if the Jedi Did Not Assume Military Command of the Republic." Basically, what if they did what they did in the Old Republic era, they joined as commando squads, infiltrators or stay in law enforcement with only a few becoming Generals> The idea is would it make a difference as Jedi would not be alone with the clones, or even serve with the majority when Order 66 happens. Also, be harder to blame the Jedi in the war efforts being slowed to a crawl due to the leadership would be Palpatine appointments of mostly military leaders while the Jedi are in the background or even serving.
They were, it just that we only saw all the business people who dooku got to join him as he promised them great profit if the war was won by them meanwhile when we got to see behind dooku, CIS council and droids, we got to see that the CIS was really made up of normal people who were just sick of being abandoned by their government.
What if the Jedi follow Duchess Satine and the mandalorians into the Council of Neutral System as a defensive force to ensure the autonomy of member planets?
Huh, This video is really underrated. Sure its only been five days but you'd think it would have more views.... Anyways! Thanks for the video, I am a really big fan and love your content! Keep up the good work!
The Jedi are servants of the republic, because when the sith wars started, the Jedi were able to convince the republic to fight their war. Which means Jedi are servants of the republic. Also palpatine needed the Jedi to fight so he can make an excuse for the reason of order 66.
What if the Jedi had *never fought* at the _first battle of Geonosis?_ The Republic would knock out the CIS in that conflict and the war would be for all practical purposes over. Assume there's no Jedi control of the Clone army, and the GAR would use sensible, pragmatic conventional tactics and obliterate the Droid army on the ground with air support while their own troops stayed in cover and waited for the Droids to march over the open killing ground into the GAR defenses. And they would prevent the droid control ships from reaching orbit by prioritising them as target #1, perhaps even disabling some of the Droids that may have still been command controlled. Most importantly the GAR forces wouldn't be decimated and could continue the battle and carry it down into the subterranean hives and factories, destroying the CIS logistics and capturing a lot of their factories. As for the CIS leadership they could be taken out or captured, decapitating the CIS. Jango Fett and Count Dooku are no match for a combined arms force barreling down on them. *Count Dooku:* Your blasters are no match for my Jedi skills. *Clone commander into headset:* Target grid coordinates 4QFJ4471,3956… [a few seconds] Fire for effect.
That's all horse-crap. Many Jedi were well-versed in military strategies and were already fighting summer wars for 1000 years before the Clone Wars. In fact, in EPII, we saw the Jedi take command of the clones, and in mere minutes, the droids were pushed back. All that crap about Jedi being bad at war was bull-crap written by Karen Traviss and other authors who hate the Jedi, whereas TCW, the classic Battlefront II, Galactic Battlegrounds, and many other works showed Jedi Generals as capable leaders and generals. "It's been said that the 501st got the best of the war. We also got the worst. On Felucia, the Seps dug their metal heels into the muck of that alien hellhole and dared the Republic to come in after them. So we did, only to be met with month after month of flesh-eating diseases, shrieking nocturnal predators, and other sights that haunt me to this day. Cut off and for all we knew abandoned by our superiors, our only hope was Aayla Secura, our Jedi commander. Without her iron will, none of us would have come out of that mess with our sanity, or our lives. When her death came, I hope it was quick. She earned that much. When the 501st was finally rotated out of Felucia, Aayla Secura made a point of seeing us off personally, calling us the bravest soldiers she had ever seen. It's a good thing we were wearing helmets, because none of us could bear to look her in the eye." Anonymous 501st Legion soldier, Star Wars Battlefront II (2005) on the topic of Felucia and the Jedi General, Aayla Secura "They're good. No words needed. Perfect sync. Like clones in a way. Better. They're the best. That's why they command." Clone Commander Bly, Star Wars Republic, issue 68 Part of the reason why the Republic managed to hang onto life despite the fact that the CIS droids were in the quintillions is because Jedi Generals were good at war and managed to beat back endless legions of droid soldiers with limited numbers of clone and nonclone soldiers. Their capacity to sense danger and their abilities in the Force to predict the enemy allows them to win battles even when their armies are outnumbered, and in most fronts, the Jedi were winning, unless you have someone more strategically brilliant like Trench, Grievous, Sev'rance Tann, or Ventress commanding the Separatists. Meanwhile, the military officers who served under the Republic, who later became Imperial admirals and generals under the Empire, have no compunction about battlefield losses. During the time of the empire, they had no problems tossing large waves of Imperial Army soldiers and Stormtroopers at the enemy until the enemy falls. If they're that careless about enlisted men with families and friends, they'll be twice as careless with clone troopers who have no families, no friends, no loved ones outside the army. They'll treat the clones like organic battle droids and throw wave after wave of clones against the enemy until they run out of clones or the enemy is vanquished. Essentially, they'll be like Krell, except without the intention of betrayal. That part in SOLO where Han Solo's commanding officer tried to push his men forward despite heavy enemy fire is typical of Republic and Imperial officers. While the Jedi would serve as flashy human shields and would conserve their men until they see a weakness in the enemy before they strike, Republic officers who would later become imperials would send wave after wave of disposable clones until the enemy falls or they run out of clones. These same officers also have no compunction about committing war crimes, which means that clones would get more PTSD over killing enemy civilians since killing civilians can cause so much PTSD that even the Nazis stopped having soldiers kill unwanted civilians and shipped them to concentration camps instead. And of course, the bad PR caused by such war crimes will end with more star systems joining the Separatists. Essentially, without Jedi leadership, the war would end in a decisive CIS victory. The Republic officers, most of whom are like Tarkin or Ozzel, will either order clones to commit war crimes or send clones to die in droves, probably both. Without the Jedi generals' capacity to predict enemy movements or their precognition in the Force, all you're stuck with are regular generals and admirals whose forces are outnumbered by an insane margin. With the CIS armies being numerically superior, all the clones would do is cause a dent in their lines, while in the few battles the Republic wins, the clones commit war crimes that cause more systems to join the Separatists. The CIS forces and Republic forces both throw droids and clones at each other willy-nilly, but unlike the Republic officers, Confederate generals and admirals have no shortage of droids to throw at the enemy. It then ends with the CIS taking over Coruscant and killing the pacifist Jedi, after the clones and Republic officers were beaten in battle. Palpatine reveals himself to be Darth Sidious, and he takes command of the CIS forces and proclaims himself Emperor.
@@HolyknightVader999 I already said everything in my other Reply about the bad Strategies Now for the First Battle Of Geonosis: Yes the Droids were pushed back because they were outnumbered "Authors that hate Jedi" Etain Tur-Mukan: Am I a joke to you?
@@fabianrocha9924 The droids weren't portrayed as outnumbered in the film. Also, EU works portray the Jedi as having good strategies in battle. Etain is what we call a token character. Notice how she basically became so pro-Mando she tried to stop a Jedi from attacking a Clone during Order 66.
I think this is overlooking one key issue. Dooku's reaction. Would Dooku seek to bring the Jedi over to the sepratist side? Perhaps seeing the break from follinwg the will of the republic as the start of a reformation? Could such a thing bring him back to the light? Surly if the Jedi were staying out of it he would be less willing to follow palpatine's plan.
I think one of the EU novels also notes that Dooku was tricked by Palpatine into thinking that the ultimate plan was to have a Jedi like order ruling over the galaxy. I.e. to sway Jedi to the cause.
@@darkjediknight2923 I think it was the Revenge of the Sith novel where Dooku and Palaptine are talking before Obi-Wan and Anakin show up. Dooku was lead to believe that they would rebuild the Sith back to pre-rule of two numbers.
I wouldn't be surprised if the jedi pulled something similar to what they did in the last sith war against Vishiut. Abandoning Coruscant and returning to their ancient home world
I want to know how on earth Jar Jar became a Senator? I mean the ability to speak does not make you intelligent, and the ability to be appointed Senator does not make you competent.
Heres a What If, what if there was a fifth schism but it was a group of Jedi who refused to fight in the Clone Wars so left for an Old Temple or the Unknown Regions and thus weren't around when Order 66 was enacted
A fan who has a Star Wars lore RUclips video can come up with such fascinating stories by putting only small curves to the context of the huge Star Wars universe. Pay attention for your next trilogy attempt Disney.
I think the leader of a faction of Jedi who entered the war wouldn't be Anakin but Mace. He had loved and cared more for the republic than the average Jedi. Ankain would leave his master and Join Mace's faction. Maybe out of necessaty Mace would even accept Anakin as padawan. Remember Anakin wanted to learn Vaapad! Meanwhile Yoda, Obi and the other Jedi would work extra hard to look into Dooku's turn to the darkside and the informations Obi learned from him. This would undermine Palpy as he has to be more on guard not to be revealed. Yoda suspected him to be force sensitive in Episode 2 when he finished Padme's line.
The Jedi WERE part of the Grand Army of the Republic. Obi-Wan said to Ahsoka in Clone Wars Season 7, "Unfortunatelly, Ahsoka is no longer a part of the Grand Army of the Republic."
I don't know of you have done this one (Im fairly new to watching your channel). I was wondering if you think of doing a video on why palpatine was going to run away from yoda before their fight in revenge of the sith.
I love this channel. Jedi leaving Coruscant now that would be the most epic move ever there temple went to below ground level they were the only building that was the same use from highest point to lowest point on Coruscant
Ok and 8th. And good speculation. If 21st century Earth is in Star Wars, maybe militaries from different superpowers be leading and commanding the Clone troopers.
@@nobleman9393 yeah, that won't work. I mean the CIS are a bunch of fools using sxxxy tactics. Plus against 21st century Earth is a dumb idea. Plus Cyber security is really awful in Star Wars canon and cyber warfare can give Terrans many information about the CIS, Republic and the Galactic Empire.
You forgot that if another jedi war acured the Republik would help anikins fackion becouse they are all gra generals and Palpatine would say it's an attack on the Republic.
That scene was from the 2003 version of Clone Wars. I am afead that Clone Wars is now apart of Legends. A real shame, since it's a good mini series, and could have been expanded greatly.
Also, the Jedi might have had a better chance at facilitating negotations between the Republic and CIS, and might wage a war through the Force against Dooku, while also acting as defenders, traveling to worlds that were ore devastated and delivering supplies, helping rebuild, pushing back droid remnants, and reestablishing law and order by kicking out criminals.
I always had a uneasy feeling about the Jedi Temple being on the same world as the Senate...plus, the Jedi never had a contingency such as alternate Jedi temples to preserve records, teachings, and continue training the younglings.
Before I watch I’m gonna assume Mandalorians who trained the clones would’ve ended up as their generals, and the clone army would’ve done marginally better on average and far better during the battle on geonosis. I also think certain units that performed very well under their Jedi generals may not have fared as well as they did, but others would.
🤔 . . . What if the Jedi didn’t get the final say in military operations? With certain exceptions concerning humanitarian aid (basically being the military’s moral compass), they don’t take any real leadership positions & aid the military just as ARC troopers do from time to time. The reason I ask this question the way I did has to do with a comic’s story where Anakin discovers that a planet didn’t join the CIS, they were enslaved. Hence, why Jedi could overrule their Admirals’ decisions when its full of prejudicial bias, run a quick & covert investigative operation, report back & rely on their commanding admiral to make the correct tactical decisions that is morally just…
Your videos make me see that the Jedi have so many faults and cause their own doom and destruction now a really fun video would be is what if all the Jedi got destroyed during The Purge what if the sith ultimately won with no form of resistance or Luke or Lehi surviving
There are a couple problems with the end of the theory. It centers on how the Jedi would react to Anakin and his followers joining the war. When Revan went off the Jedi did not go to war with him, they disapproved but in the end did nothing, and with Anakin being the kind of Jedi he is it would probably be something similar with him. Another fact is that if the Jedi had remained so adamant to remain neutral they would not declare war on Republic commanding Jedi in the middle of a galaxy-wide war (1 because that just sounds like a dumb move, and two it would put the Jedi at odds with the Republic by attacking their commanders) and it also banks on all the young Jedi going dark side on them yet most Jedi in the war did not go Dark side and also there is the Rule of Two to consider. I think Palpatine would eventually call for Order 66 on the Jedi who entered the war while the Jedi who did not watch as their comrades are killed, then he might try and spin something so that all Jedi appear as the enemy and turn his army on them, except the Jedi would be together and if they fled to a neutral war Palpatine would not immediately be able to attack them as while he declared himself Emperor, at least in the first few years, he still kept up the appearance of democracy so he would need to wait, possible with an uninjured Lord Vader, and make some new plot for an eventual war with the Jedi and the Neutral Systems that might remain neutral if the Jedi joined them and Maul never took over Mandalore.
Video suggestion: what if the Imperium of Man invaded the Star Wars Galaxy during the Clone Wars? Would we have a truce between CIS and Republic? Would any Star Wars faction be able to reverse engineer 40k hardware or the Imperium woul just slowly but surely conquer the Star wars galaxy?
Either way, clones will still die. Whether to the incompetence of command or to need the Jedi's help for a mission or saving them. Especially Grievous...
So Anakin would have been his errors version of Revan. The Jedi really screwed up when they had all of their Jedi in one basket. They should have really stuck with Outpost like Dantooine or even some of the outer rim. Those systems would have been a lot harder for the clone troopers to get to. And definitely make sure those facilities are not on public record.
With the Jedi so interconnected with the Republic it wouldn’t matter much. Most likely there would have been clones stationed at every Jedi outpost. Even if that wasn’t the case there locations would still be widely known. Thus attack groups would strike whence Order 66 was issued no matter what. The best thing would have been the Jedi to be separated from any government power so they could be true servants of the common people. Yet the Jedi also needed those government connections to effectively in force the peace.
@@MandalorV7 Through out alot of the books there were other force sensitive groups outside of the Jedi. The more open minded jedi could have tried to foster better relationships with those groups. When the time came, they could have had refuge from the Empire. The Jedi could have tried to establish an outpost on Dagobah.
I've always had this view that Dooku was right about the Jedi Order not being directly loyal to the senate. Governments can become corrupt as the Republic did. They should be natural in times when there two or more galactic governments are on the verge of war. They should focus on making sure both sides do not commit horrendous atrocities against the people of the galaxy and work towards finding a peaceful resolution between the factions. They can even have treaties with governments that allow them to do what they've done with the Republic such as recruit citizens of their worlds while helping to maintain peace and order without getting involved in conflicts that would be considered a violation of the Jedi code.
Oof. Palpatine's propaganda would spell out another very Mandalorian Wars/Jedi Civil War situation, but with Anakin instead of Revan. Then the same Jedi hate would come back.
I always thought that it would have made a LOT more sense for the Jedi order to demure from the Clone Wars, with Obi-Wan and Anakin specifically BREAKING with the order and serving with a planetary defense force like ALDERAN which Leia explicitly says Obi-Wan served 'my father as a general' in her holo-message. The prequels would have lost NOTHING as far as action other then the terrible Geonosis colosseum lightsaber orgy. And the whole galaxies attitude towards the Jedi 'old sad useless religion' would make sense rather then the order 66 mess which would leave the people of the galaxy polarized into two camps those that swallowed imperial propaganda and thought of the Jedi as a 'power-hungry mad cult' and the rest thinking of them as 'martyrs murdered by the Emperor'. This is just one of the many areas where the prequels blatantly fail to respect the world building of the Original Trilogy.
New fanfic idea planted in my head: alternate universe in which the Jedi didn’t get involved in the war, and Rebel!Anakin radicalizes Obi-Wan and Ashoka into his pro-war, pro Palpatine Jedi offshoot, complete with an army of young Dark Jedi commanded by their “holy trinity” and start a Jedi civil war, Palpatine finding it such an amusing change of plans he doesn’t even activate Order 66, just waits for the Jedi to kill themselves.
The path to be Generals in the Grand Army of the Republic was not their only choice. Healers, builders, repairers, was a choice. Leading/training the local defense forces. Leaving the galaxy for a remote/hidden world. Being under their own separate command, and letting someone else in charge of the clones. Lots of options, other than being forced into a role that they were ill suited to be.
This has nothing to do with the video specifically but has anybody else ever looked at the size of the GAR and thought that there was no way that it could possibly be that small? Think about it, 1.2 million clones to fight a galactic war across tens of thousands of worlds. That’s basically the size of the U.S. armed forces, which probably couldn’t even conquer Earth let along control and defend an entire galaxy. It’s just ridiculous.
The Schism only would happen if the Council wanted it. Kenobi as part of it would advise against it, and even Yoda would too. The council would be split and in the end nothing would happen. The Order is quite vague about what a member can and can't do. Joining the war might not be considered going against the order, after all the pro-republic members aren't turning into Sith, and they don't know the truth about Palpatine. Remember, it wasn't until Anakin snitches to Mace that he Mace finally found out the truth that he was a Sith Lord. You know this by Mace's expression of shock and disbelief.
The Jedi didn't even think Palpatine was a Sith lord until Anikan told them. They sensed the dark force around him, but always assumed the real culprit was someone in his inner circle. Oddly enough, they were prepared to depose of him by force instead of confronting him trough the Senate despite them thinking Palpatine himself was nothing more than a run out of the mill corrupt politician, which given what they knew at that time is certainly an extreme action.
And it's one, two, three, what are we fighting for? don't ask me I don't give a shit, next stop is planet Kashyyyk And it's five, six, seven, open up the pearly gates ain't no time to wonder why, because we're all gonna fry on Oba Diah. Hell, no! We won't go!
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
Anakin: "From my point of view the Jedi are evil."
Obi-Wan Lebowski: "Well that's just, like, your opinion man."
"the counsel chamber together, that rug really tied" donny-oda
@@t3h51d3w1nd3r Say what you want about the tenants of the Sith, at least it's an ethos!
Smoking Medicloreans
Lmao
@@t3h51d3w1nd3r “stfu Donny-oda”
That thumbnail i cant describe how i feel about it
Laughing to death?🤣
I want it! I want it so bad
It’s perfect, absolutely perfect
@@JaelaOrdo had to screen shot it
I love it
I believe that Palpatine would goad the jedi into the war by openly having Count Dooku reveal himself as a Sith, forcing the jedi to be in an ideological war.
Or maybe make the cis to attack critical place to the the jedi like jedi temple somewhere or even the main jedi temple in coruscant and make them want to revenge(even if jedi are not supposed to)
I can see how that may backfired
@@galadato7425 Yup. Palpatine could increase the number of atrocities the CIS commits. Such as targeting civilian populations, fire bombing cities, wiping planets off the map and so much more. He could train Sith assassins as terrorists to kill civilians. There really is no end to what he could do to provoke anger in the Jedi.
@@ingmarfris8175 exactly!
Yes true
“What planet are you from?”
“What?”
“What ain’t no planet I ever heard of, they speak basic on what?”
Underrated comment
"What?"
*"BASIC MOTHA-POODOO! DO YOU SPEAK IT?!?"*
"SAY WHAT AGAIN NERF HERDER!"
does he looks like a sith?!?!?!?
@@MinistryOfMagic_DoM wat
*It's time for the smug face*
If the Jedi avoided the Clone Wars:
Obi-wan: decided to grow his hair out.
Mace “Jules” Windu: decides grows his hair out.
Anakin: still secretly disillusioned with the Jedi so keeps hair the same.
So even if the Jedi didn’t join the war Order 66 would eventually still happen.
Talk about a damned if you do, damned if don’t type of situation for the Jedi.
This would leave many more alive afterwards though, crucially it would probably see most of the high council live meaning the Jedi as an order would live on instead of for all intents and purposes, dying.
@@Phantom8941 Considering how flawed the Jedi Order was, this might not be a good thing. For all the bad things about the Sequel Trilogy, Luke was right about the Jedi needing to die out.
@@robertnelson9599 Whatever "flawed" rules they had were born out of experience, for example no deep attachments/no marriage was born from the old jedi order letting it happen then when a Jedi's kids/spouse is in danger, threatened or killed, they lose their shit, fall to the dark side and become a massive threat to everyday people. Luke's order is a great example as in 30 years they were constantly bleeding members to the darkside with havoc ensuing. George Lucas made it pretty clear, using the force is all about sacrifice, if you can't sacrifice and be selfless, the force isn't for you.
@@Phantom8941 Even if the Jedi survived the first few days of Order 66, they would be hunted down and killed by the inquisitors and the empire.
@@jasomjensai-starwars2652 They'd have the numbers and the leadership to fight back though, and if the order's members that survived lasted like they did in legends without leadership, they could only do even better grouped up in large numbers, leading the rebellion.
I think that you covered everything but you forgot one key thing. In the past the Jedi abstained from wars which to their knowledge didn't include the Sith like the Mandalorian wars. However the CIS was led by Dooku who was a Sith. And this was a perfect reason for the Jedi to join the war which is exactly what the genius Palpatine wanted.
The Clone Wars were inescapeable trap no matter what the Jedi did.
Kubinda12345 they could’ve abstained from leading the literal slave army and joined the war effort as spec ops crews.
The Jedi could have only involved themselves in capturing Dooku. Or they could have dedicated themselves to peace negotiations and informing the separatist parliament of these war crimes which they were largely unaware of.
More jedi shouldve acted like rahm kota.
A group of Jedi would had gotten involved just like Revan did in the Mandalorian Wars and drag them into it anyway. Especially if they find out Dooku is a Sith named Darth Tyrannus.
Basically. Too many Jedi are Republic patriots.
Knights of the Old Republic gave us the storyline for this question. We get a schism in the order, and a Darth Revan.
So, mace become Revan 2.0! Yesssss
@@Nealetony I think Anakin would’ve been Revan. Mace would’ve likely been against it like Master Vrook
@@Nealetony no, Anakin would.
To be fair, the mandalorians were dedicated specifically to fighting the jedi and were only attacking the republic for that end. More over the Order of the clone wars was quite different fron that of the mandalorian wars and so a schism might be less likely.
Also got Sion, Nihilus and Traya
Easy. A lot of clones would still be alive
The opposite would happen. Many Republic officers who would later be Imperials have no problems sending Stormtroopers to die by the bucketloads so long as the job's done. They also have no problems committing war crimes. If they're that careless with enlisted men, imagine how they'll treat clones. They'll treat them like organic battle droids and you'd see clone deaths quadruple at the very least.
@@HolyknightVader999 there are enough Jedi seeing clones as droids too so there wouldn't be that much of a different
😳"No they won't" in fact more clones would die🤨
@@HolyknightVader999 I disagree with that personally. Without Jedi, there would be another form of military command structure of people who are actually experienced, instead of the horrible leadership of the Jedi. Just look at Geonosis for example. The Jedi were never good at leading the war, even towards the end, so it would likely mean that more clones would be alive due to competent command.
@@KosherPorky Yeah, NO. The Jedi have been waging summer wars for 1000 years before the Clone Wars. They even were knowledgeable about military history and they defeated Admiral Trench and Iago Stark prior to EPII. And in Geonosis, we saw the Jedi take command of the clones, and in mere minutes, the droids were pushed back. All that crap about Jedi being bad at war was bull-crap written by Karen Traviss and other authors who hate the Jedi, whereas TCW, the classic Battlefront II, Galactic Battlegrounds, and many other works showed Jedi Generals as capable leaders and generals. Geonosis did show a lot of clone deaths, but that was due to the scale of the battle. That, and no cover would last when A) the enemy uses missiles and tank droids, and B) the enemy was bum-rushing you in large numbers and even the SBDs have wrist rockets.
"It's been said that the 501st got the best of the war. We also got the worst. On Felucia, the Seps dug their metal heels into the muck of that alien hellhole and dared the Republic to come in after them. So we did, only to be met with month after month of flesh-eating diseases, shrieking nocturnal predators, and other sights that haunt me to this day. Cut off and for all we knew abandoned by our superiors, our only hope was Aayla Secura, our Jedi commander. Without her iron will, none of us would have come out of that mess with our sanity, or our lives. When her death came, I hope it was quick. She earned that much. When the 501st was finally rotated out of Felucia, Aayla Secura made a point of seeing us off personally, calling us the bravest soldiers she had ever seen. It's a good thing we were wearing helmets, because none of us could bear to look her in the eye."
Anonymous 501st Legion soldier, Star Wars Battlefront II (2005) on the topic of Felucia and the Jedi General, Aayla Secura
"They're good. No words needed. Perfect sync. Like clones in a way. Better. They're the best. That's why they command."
Clone Commander Bly, Star Wars Republic, issue 68
Part of the reason why the Republic managed to hang onto life despite the fact that the CIS droids were in the quintillions is because Jedi Generals were good at war and managed to beat back endless legions of droid soldiers with limited numbers of clone and nonclone soldiers. Their capacity to sense danger and their abilities in the Force to predict the enemy allows them to win battles even when their armies are outnumbered, and in most fronts, the Jedi were winning, unless you have someone more strategically brilliant like Trench, Grievous, Sev'rance Tann, or Ventress commanding the Separatists.
Meanwhile, the military officers who served under the Republic, who later became Imperial admirals and generals under the Empire, have no compunction about battlefield losses. During the time of the empire, they had no problems tossing large waves of Imperial Army soldiers and Stormtroopers at the enemy until the enemy falls. If they're that careless about enlisted men with families and friends, they'll be twice as careless with clone troopers who have no families, no friends, no loved ones outside the army. They'll treat the clones like organic battle droids and throw wave after wave of clones against the enemy until they run out of clones or the enemy is vanquished. Essentially, they'll be like Krell, except without the intention of betrayal. That part in SOLO where Han Solo's commanding officer tried to push his men forward despite heavy enemy fire is typical of Republic and Imperial officers. While the Jedi would serve as flashy human shields and would conserve their men until they see a weakness in the enemy before they strike, Republic officers who would later become imperials would send wave after wave of disposable clones until the enemy falls or they run out of clones.
These same officers also have no compunction about committing war crimes, which means that clones would get more PTSD over killing enemy civilians since killing civilians can cause so much PTSD that even the Nazis stopped having soldiers kill unwanted civilians and shipped them to concentration camps instead. And of course, the bad PR caused by such war crimes will end with more star systems joining the Separatists.
Essentially, without Jedi leadership, the war would end in a decisive CIS victory. The Republic officers, most of whom are like Tarkin or Ozzel, will either order clones to commit war crimes or send clones to die in droves, probably both. Without the Jedi generals' capacity to predict enemy movements or their precognition in the Force, all you're stuck with are regular generals and admirals whose forces are outnumbered by an insane margin. With the CIS armies being numerically superior, all the clones would do is cause a dent in their lines, while in the few battles the Republic wins, the clones commit war crimes that cause more systems to join the Separatists. The CIS forces and Republic forces both throw droids and clones at each other willy-nilly, but unlike the Republic officers, Confederate generals and admirals have no shortage of droids to throw at the enemy. It then ends with the CIS taking over Coruscant and killing the pacifist Jedi, after the clones and Republic officers were beaten in battle. Palpatine reveals himself to be Darth Sidious, and he takes command of the CIS forces and proclaims himself Emperor.
That Thumbnail is perfect just absolutely perfect!
*Yoda [sitting by a pond in a swamp, playing a banjo and singing]:* Someday we'll find it, the rainbow connection. The lovers, the dreamers, and me.
*Dons Captain America-outfit* I unDERSTOOD THAT REFERENCE
"Make millions of people happy..."
Movin' right along...
Wow I really need to see this
idea: what if palpatine died during the clone wars, a random accident or something takes him out what happens then
He will probably return as a clone
@@galadato7425 this might be before he made clones of himself
Count Dooku would be in charge of the Separatist Army while the Senate would have to vote a new Supreme Chancellor.
This could lead to heated debates between Palpatine's followers who would want the new Supreme Chancellor to keep all the powers that he acumulated and those senators like Padme Amidala and Bail Organa who would want to remove the powers of the Chancellor before election.
While the Republic elects a new leader the Separatist Army still unified under Dooku and no longer manipulated by Palpatine would begin to regain ground and turn the war in it's favor.
The Civil War would last more years. During that time Padme gets pregnant, Anakin begins to have the nightmares but Palpatine is not there to temp him, eventually Padme gets hurt during an assassination attempt from Palpatine's followers, he gets mad and kills the perpetrators. His relationship with Padme is exposed and he is expelled from the Jedi Order, pushing him to the Dark Side. However the public takes Anakin's side due to his status as hero and many senators see a chance to end the internal and propose him to be the new Supreme Chancellor, he accepts the proposal and gets elected with a great majority. At that point the Jedi realized that he fell to the Dark Side and try to arrest him but he escapes. Things would turn similar to Episode III, Anakin would denounce the Jedi Order and declare them criminals but because he is not aware of the Order 66 many clones help the Jedi to escape. It is very likely that many of the youngest Jedi and those who disagreed with the Council would join Anakin, splitting the Order.
Eventually Anakin would defeated Dooku, end the Civil and become Emperor, with the Sith gone, and an order of Dark Jedi hunting the remaining Jedi in the new Empire. A very important issue would is that Padme survives, because she would keep Anakin from fully falling into the Dark Side, creating an equilibrium between both sides and fullfilling the Prophecy.
@@Hektols this, was beautiful
@@pelinalwhitestrake8195 it's the clone wars, the jedi would probably clone him even if he is dead to keep the stability of the senate
Imagine if the Jedi joined the separatists while fighting Anakins dark Republic jedi.
Hmmmm
Not likely. The main issue is that joining the separatists meant aiding the Sith since they knew they were behind the separatists.
Here’s another what if scenario to do Alan: What if Thrawn’s Tie Defender Elite program was mass produced? = with or without Thrawn… Advantages and Disadvantages video for both the empire and star fighter.
I mean they probably wouldn't have as many tactical disasters due to jedi not being trained to do that like the clones who could actually do it but weren't given command over everything. But then the jedi are actually pretty good warriors that did help them a lot in some cases and could sway the outcome of battle just enough.
Haha I saw you in other video
Many Jedi were well-versed in military strategies and were already fighting summer wars for 1000 years before the Clone Wars. In fact, in EPII, we saw the Jedi take command of the clones, and in mere minutes, the droids were pushed back. All that crap about Jedi being bad at war was bull-crap written by Karen Traviss and other authors who hate the Jedi, whereas TCW, the classic Battlefront II, Galactic Battlegrounds, and many other works showed Jedi Generals as capable leaders and generals.
"It's been said that the 501st got the best of the war. We also got the worst. On Felucia, the Seps dug their metal heels into the muck of that alien hellhole and dared the Republic to come in after them. So we did, only to be met with month after month of flesh-eating diseases, shrieking nocturnal predators, and other sights that haunt me to this day. Cut off and for all we knew abandoned by our superiors, our only hope was Aayla Secura, our Jedi commander. Without her iron will, none of us would have come out of that mess with our sanity, or our lives. When her death came, I hope it was quick. She earned that much. When the 501st was finally rotated out of Felucia, Aayla Secura made a point of seeing us off personally, calling us the bravest soldiers she had ever seen. It's a good thing we were wearing helmets, because none of us could bear to look her in the eye."
Anonymous 501st Legion soldier, Star Wars Battlefront II (2005) on the topic of Felucia and the Jedi General, Aayla Secura
"They're good. No words needed. Perfect sync. Like clones in a way. Better. They're the best. That's why they command."
Clone Commander Bly, Star Wars Republic, issue 68
Part of the reason why the Republic managed to hang onto life despite the fact that the CIS droids were in the quintillions is because Jedi Generals were good at war and managed to beat back endless legions of droid soldiers with limited numbers of clone and nonclone soldiers. Their capacity to sense danger and their abilities in the Force to predict the enemy allows them to win battles even when their armies are outnumbered, and in most fronts, the Jedi were winning, unless you have someone more strategically brilliant like Trench, Grievous, Sev'rance Tann, or Ventress commanding the Separatists.
Meanwhile, the military officers who served under the Republic, who later became Imperial admirals and generals under the Empire, have no compunction about battlefield losses. During the time of the empire, they had no problems tossing large waves of Imperial Army soldiers and Stormtroopers at the enemy until the enemy falls. If they're that careless about enlisted men with families and friends, they'll be twice as careless with clone troopers who have no families, no friends, no loved ones outside the army. They'll treat the clones like organic battle droids and throw wave after wave of clones against the enemy until they run out of clones or the enemy is vanquished. Essentially, they'll be like Krell, except without the intention of betrayal. That part in SOLO where Han Solo's commanding officer tried to push his men forward despite heavy enemy fire is typical of Republic and Imperial officers. While the Jedi would serve as flashy human shields and would conserve their men until they see a weakness in the enemy before they strike, Republic officers who would later become imperials would send wave after wave of disposable clones until the enemy falls or they run out of clones.
These same officers also have no compunction about committing war crimes, which means that clones would get more PTSD over killing enemy civilians since killing civilians can cause so much PTSD that even the Nazis stopped having soldiers kill unwanted civilians and shipped them to concentration camps instead. And of course, the bad PR caused by such war crimes will end with more star systems joining the Separatists.
Essentially, without Jedi leadership, the war would end in a decisive CIS victory. The Republic officers, most of whom are like Tarkin or Ozzel, will either order clones to commit war crimes or send clones to die in droves, probably both. Without the Jedi generals' capacity to predict enemy movements or their precognition in the Force, all you're stuck with are regular generals and admirals whose forces are outnumbered by an insane margin. With the CIS armies being numerically superior, all the clones would do is cause a dent in their lines, while in the few battles the Republic wins, the clones commit war crimes that cause more systems to join the Separatists. The CIS forces and Republic forces both throw droids and clones at each other willy-nilly, but unlike the Republic officers, Confederate generals and admirals have no shortage of droids to throw at the enemy. It then ends with the CIS taking over Coruscant and killing the pacifist Jedi, after the clones and Republic officers were beaten in battle. Palpatine reveals himself to be Darth Sidious, and he takes command of the CIS forces and proclaims himself Emperor.
@@HolyknightVader999 If you dont like her stories its ok but please respect her
And the Jedi were indeed a little bad in strategies at first but obviously they got better after sometime(Based on everything I watched and read I think it only took them a few Months to learn)
(Sorry for my bad English)
@@fabianrocha9924 No, I don't, because she doesn't respect the story of Star Wars.
No, the Jedi weren't bad at strategies at all. Even in many EU works they had good strategies honed from 1000 years of fighting summer wars and local wars for the Republic.
Your English is OK.
@@HolyknightVader999 The Droids Were Pushed Back Because They Weren't Even TRYING To Win In The First Place.
If It Was An Actual Battle The GAR And The Jedi Would Have Been Wiped Out Because Of The Dumb Jedi Strategy Of: Charging A Fortified Position While In A Numerical Disadvantage.
I saw the Hippy-Jedi on the thumbnail.
I didn’t see a picture, I saw _beauty_
I find it hilarious 😂
Peter Yim agreed 😂
@@patchworkfellow yep and would prefer Earth in Star Wars official from Lucasfilm.
Peter Yim ???
@@patchworkfellow just saying my opinion.
I would like to agree with a post here in the comment section. The jedi were competent battle field commanders as it was actually a course taught as part of the jedi training. Most jedi were alright at it and could easily be sidestepped by the like the grevious or trench. There was that 15 percent tho that were great tacticians, but that is different from a strategist. Strategist see the wider picture while tacticians more or less see what in front of them. It's just like game of thrones were Tywin Lannister saw the wider picture of the war while Robb Stark saw the battle. You can be a horrible strategist while excell at battle. Palpatine would be a great example of a Strategist, while Anakin is a great battle tactician
Very well thought out. I do feel like Anakin was shoe horned in just cause of who he is. There were far more experienced Jedi that felt strongly about the war. And could have led others against the council's wishes.
what i they joined the war, bt not as generals, since they didn't have the training to do so, but as a spec-ops. units, a small-scale tactical-teams to disrupt and undermine separatists war effort?
Yeah, but you know, Sidous.
Didn‘t the jedi have a section of their order specifically trained for espionage and sabotage? Or was that dissolved after the last sith war? If they did, these teams most likely existed but simply aren’t covered yet.
Please make a part 2 for this. It’s an interesting what if hypothetical.
Ever notice that Samuel L Jackson keeps losing his right arm? In both ROTS and Jurassic Park.
Didnt a shark bite it off too in deep blue sea?
The Jedi refusing to join the war in the first place would of made the tension and outcome of the first three movies so much more interesting. Not saying they weren’t good but man.
Thumbnail Yoda be lookin gangsta, but a peace loving one of course.
What if the Jedi had a different role during the clone wars that was suitable for the fact that they are monks? What if they only got involved when there was a Jedi matter?
Just like Star Trek, it's easy to be a saint in paradise
I had no idea Shaggy was a Jedi
( look at 2:50 )
in EU history, the Jedi are often denounced depending on the state of war in that era, most often if the Republic is losing or lost a war regardless of whether the jedi took part or not.
You know what I like you to do, "What if the Jedi Did Not Assume Military Command of the Republic."
Basically, what if they did what they did in the Old Republic era, they joined as commando squads, infiltrators or stay in law enforcement with only a few becoming Generals> The idea is would it make a difference as Jedi would not be alone with the clones, or even serve with the majority when Order 66 happens. Also, be harder to blame the Jedi in the war efforts being slowed to a crawl due to the leadership would be Palpatine appointments of mostly military leaders while the Jedi are in the background or even serving.
Yea I’m still convinced that the seppies are the good guys.
its treason, then.
You've become the very thing I swore to destroy
Naboo had it coming...
They were, it just that we only saw all the business people who dooku got to join him as he promised them great profit if the war was won by them meanwhile when we got to see behind dooku, CIS council and droids, we got to see that the CIS was really made up of normal people who were just sick of being abandoned by their government.
Seppies could definetly be seen as the good guys from a certain point of view, they didnt have a "slave" army
4:22 does that make Dooku Patrick Henry?
More Benedict Arnold
Palpatine formed a federal reserve in the Republic? He truly was evil.
I wonder if he balanced the budget
What if the Jedi follow Duchess Satine and the mandalorians into the Council of Neutral System as a defensive force to ensure the autonomy of member planets?
Huh, This video is really underrated. Sure its only been five days but you'd think it would have more views.... Anyways! Thanks for the video, I am a really big fan and love your content! Keep up the good work!
The Jedi are servants of the republic, because when the sith wars started, the Jedi were able to convince the republic to fight their war. Which means Jedi are servants of the republic. Also palpatine needed the Jedi to fight so he can make an excuse for the reason of order 66.
What if the Jedi had *never fought* at the _first battle of Geonosis?_
The Republic would knock out the CIS in that conflict and the war would be for all practical purposes over.
Assume there's no Jedi control of the Clone army, and the GAR would use sensible, pragmatic conventional tactics and obliterate the Droid army on the ground with air support while their own troops stayed in cover and waited for the Droids to march over the open killing ground into the GAR defenses.
And they would prevent the droid control ships from reaching orbit by prioritising them as target #1, perhaps even disabling some of the Droids that may have still been command controlled.
Most importantly the GAR forces wouldn't be decimated and could continue the battle and carry it down into the subterranean hives and factories, destroying the CIS logistics and capturing a lot of their factories.
As for the CIS leadership they could be taken out or captured, decapitating the CIS.
Jango Fett and Count Dooku are no match for a combined arms force barreling down on them.
*Count Dooku:* Your blasters are no match for my Jedi skills.
*Clone commander into headset:* Target grid coordinates 4QFJ4471,3956…
[a few seconds]
Fire for effect.
You underestimate the power of Sheev's political finesse.
That's all horse-crap. Many Jedi were well-versed in military strategies and were already fighting summer wars for 1000 years before the Clone Wars. In fact, in EPII, we saw the Jedi take command of the clones, and in mere minutes, the droids were pushed back. All that crap about Jedi being bad at war was bull-crap written by Karen Traviss and other authors who hate the Jedi, whereas TCW, the classic Battlefront II, Galactic Battlegrounds, and many other works showed Jedi Generals as capable leaders and generals.
"It's been said that the 501st got the best of the war. We also got the worst. On Felucia, the Seps dug their metal heels into the muck of that alien hellhole and dared the Republic to come in after them. So we did, only to be met with month after month of flesh-eating diseases, shrieking nocturnal predators, and other sights that haunt me to this day. Cut off and for all we knew abandoned by our superiors, our only hope was Aayla Secura, our Jedi commander. Without her iron will, none of us would have come out of that mess with our sanity, or our lives. When her death came, I hope it was quick. She earned that much. When the 501st was finally rotated out of Felucia, Aayla Secura made a point of seeing us off personally, calling us the bravest soldiers she had ever seen. It's a good thing we were wearing helmets, because none of us could bear to look her in the eye."
Anonymous 501st Legion soldier, Star Wars Battlefront II (2005) on the topic of Felucia and the Jedi General, Aayla Secura
"They're good. No words needed. Perfect sync. Like clones in a way. Better. They're the best. That's why they command."
Clone Commander Bly, Star Wars Republic, issue 68
Part of the reason why the Republic managed to hang onto life despite the fact that the CIS droids were in the quintillions is because Jedi Generals were good at war and managed to beat back endless legions of droid soldiers with limited numbers of clone and nonclone soldiers. Their capacity to sense danger and their abilities in the Force to predict the enemy allows them to win battles even when their armies are outnumbered, and in most fronts, the Jedi were winning, unless you have someone more strategically brilliant like Trench, Grievous, Sev'rance Tann, or Ventress commanding the Separatists.
Meanwhile, the military officers who served under the Republic, who later became Imperial admirals and generals under the Empire, have no compunction about battlefield losses. During the time of the empire, they had no problems tossing large waves of Imperial Army soldiers and Stormtroopers at the enemy until the enemy falls. If they're that careless about enlisted men with families and friends, they'll be twice as careless with clone troopers who have no families, no friends, no loved ones outside the army. They'll treat the clones like organic battle droids and throw wave after wave of clones against the enemy until they run out of clones or the enemy is vanquished. Essentially, they'll be like Krell, except without the intention of betrayal. That part in SOLO where Han Solo's commanding officer tried to push his men forward despite heavy enemy fire is typical of Republic and Imperial officers. While the Jedi would serve as flashy human shields and would conserve their men until they see a weakness in the enemy before they strike, Republic officers who would later become imperials would send wave after wave of disposable clones until the enemy falls or they run out of clones.
These same officers also have no compunction about committing war crimes, which means that clones would get more PTSD over killing enemy civilians since killing civilians can cause so much PTSD that even the Nazis stopped having soldiers kill unwanted civilians and shipped them to concentration camps instead. And of course, the bad PR caused by such war crimes will end with more star systems joining the Separatists.
Essentially, without Jedi leadership, the war would end in a decisive CIS victory. The Republic officers, most of whom are like Tarkin or Ozzel, will either order clones to commit war crimes or send clones to die in droves, probably both. Without the Jedi generals' capacity to predict enemy movements or their precognition in the Force, all you're stuck with are regular generals and admirals whose forces are outnumbered by an insane margin. With the CIS armies being numerically superior, all the clones would do is cause a dent in their lines, while in the few battles the Republic wins, the clones commit war crimes that cause more systems to join the Separatists. The CIS forces and Republic forces both throw droids and clones at each other willy-nilly, but unlike the Republic officers, Confederate generals and admirals have no shortage of droids to throw at the enemy. It then ends with the CIS taking over Coruscant and killing the pacifist Jedi, after the clones and Republic officers were beaten in battle. Palpatine reveals himself to be Darth Sidious, and he takes command of the CIS forces and proclaims himself Emperor.
@@HolyknightVader999 I already said everything in my other Reply about the bad Strategies
Now for the First Battle Of Geonosis:
Yes the Droids were pushed back because they were outnumbered
"Authors that hate Jedi"
Etain Tur-Mukan: Am I a joke to you?
@@fabianrocha9924 The droids weren't portrayed as outnumbered in the film. Also, EU works portray the Jedi as having good strategies in battle.
Etain is what we call a token character. Notice how she basically became so pro-Mando she tried to stop a Jedi from attacking a Clone during Order 66.
Actually the average jedi had alot of military skills
I think this is overlooking one key issue. Dooku's reaction. Would Dooku seek to bring the Jedi over to the sepratist side? Perhaps seeing the break from follinwg the will of the republic as the start of a reformation? Could such a thing bring him back to the light? Surly if the Jedi were staying out of it he would be less willing to follow palpatine's plan.
I think one of the EU novels also notes that Dooku was tricked by Palpatine into thinking that the ultimate plan was to have a Jedi like order ruling over the galaxy. I.e. to sway Jedi to the cause.
@@darkjediknight2923 I think it was the Revenge of the Sith novel where Dooku and Palaptine are talking before Obi-Wan and Anakin show up. Dooku was lead to believe that they would rebuild the Sith back to pre-rule of two numbers.
Anakin going rogue from the Jedi Order to fight a war for the Republic
Hmmm why does that sound familiar
I wouldn't be surprised if the jedi pulled something similar to what they did in the last sith war against Vishiut. Abandoning Coruscant and returning to their ancient home world
Vitiate, was his name, Darth Vitiate
I want to know how on earth Jar Jar became a Senator? I mean the ability to speak does not make you intelligent, and the ability to be appointed Senator does not make you competent.
Heres a What If, what if there was a fifth schism but it was a group of Jedi who refused to fight in the Clone Wars so left for an Old Temple or the Unknown Regions and thus weren't around when Order 66 was enacted
Grevious would’ve had a small collection
A fan who has a Star Wars lore RUclips video can come up with such fascinating stories by putting only small curves to the context of the huge Star Wars universe.
Pay attention for your next trilogy attempt Disney.
I think the leader of a faction of Jedi who entered the war wouldn't be Anakin but Mace. He had loved and cared more for the republic than the average Jedi. Ankain would leave his master and Join Mace's faction. Maybe out of necessaty Mace would even accept Anakin as padawan. Remember Anakin wanted to learn Vaapad! Meanwhile Yoda, Obi and the other Jedi would work extra hard to look into Dooku's turn to the darkside and the informations Obi learned from him. This would undermine Palpy as he has to be more on guard not to be revealed. Yoda suspected him to be force sensitive in Episode 2 when he finished Padme's line.
Can you please make a part 2? This scenario you described as pretty interesting?
The Jedi WERE part of the Grand Army of the Republic. Obi-Wan said to Ahsoka in Clone Wars Season 7, "Unfortunatelly, Ahsoka is no longer a part of the Grand Army of the Republic."
I don't know of you have done this one (Im fairly new to watching your channel). I was wondering if you think of doing a video on why palpatine was going to run away from yoda before their fight in revenge of the sith.
I love this channel. Jedi leaving Coruscant now that would be the most epic move ever there temple went to below ground level they were the only building that was the same use from highest point to lowest point on Coruscant
Ok and 8th. And good speculation. If 21st century Earth is in Star Wars, maybe militaries from different superpowers be leading and commanding the Clone troopers.
I think those Militaries would be busy with bigger problems on Earth
@@nobleman9393 yeah, maybe. But why not? Lol
@@pyeitme508 You know, World War 3 or a few 'smaller' wars caused by countries Supported by The Separatist Alliance
@@nobleman9393 yeah, that won't work. I mean the CIS are a bunch of fools using sxxxy tactics. Plus against 21st century Earth is a dumb idea. Plus Cyber security is really awful in Star Wars canon and cyber warfare can give Terrans many information about the CIS, Republic and the Galactic Empire.
@@pyeitme508Of course it would work, The CIS only needs to use already existing conflicts and escalate them
You should do more podcasts
We will
Generation Tech ok
@@GenerationTech I love you Allen
biggest mistake jedi made was to join republic
Does anyone think some of the Jedi were jealous of Anakin, including Windu? Thoughts?
Their whole way and code is seriously limiting.
You forgot that if another jedi war acured the Republik would help anikins fackion becouse they are all gra generals and Palpatine would say it's an attack on the Republic.
What if the jedi order did not fight in the mandalorian wars. And let the mandalorians defeat the republic? Long before the sith empire returned.
I never watched the Clone Wars cartoon. Now I must know the story of the dumbass Jedi who got smashed by Greivous at 2:57. Lmao
That scene was from the 2003 version of Clone Wars. I am afead that Clone Wars is now apart of Legends. A real shame, since it's a good mini series, and could have been expanded greatly.
"The more things change, the more they stay the same." -Snake
You know the smartest thing would be to join the mandolorians and other people against war.
Please post that thumbnail somewhere
The Jedi Order was foolish enough to take part in politics and warfare dispite it being a direct contradiction to the light side of the force.
Also, the Jedi might have had a better chance at facilitating negotations between the Republic and CIS, and might wage a war through the Force against Dooku, while also acting as defenders, traveling to worlds that were ore devastated and delivering supplies, helping rebuild, pushing back droid remnants, and reestablishing law and order by kicking out criminals.
I don't get how a huge clone army came out of knowhere and nobody was the least bit suspicious i get that they were in the middle of war but come.
The Jedi became to trusting in the Republic D:
The Jedi shud have stick to their belief n not had gotten involved so they can see the bigger picture.
What happened to the "Citizen's point of view" series?
Because, there point of view doesn't matter.
I think the Jedi immediately agreed to fight the separatists because Dooku was a Sith
I always had a uneasy feeling about the Jedi Temple being on the same world as the Senate...plus, the Jedi never had a contingency such as alternate Jedi temples to preserve records, teachings, and continue training the younglings.
Before I watch I’m gonna assume Mandalorians who trained the clones would’ve ended up as their generals, and the clone army would’ve done marginally better on average and far better during the battle on geonosis. I also think certain units that performed very well under their Jedi generals may not have fared as well as they did, but others would.
Senator jar jar? You mean darth jar jar?
11:10 Snips.... Always following the actions of his Master... Well, it'll be Anakin's Malack... Well his number 2 if you understand me.
What if the Jedi joined the separatists?
I love the thumbnail😂😂🤣🤣
What if Palpatine encountered the Whills?
Another interesting question is would Ahsoka still leave the order? And if not, would she join Anakin's pro-war faction?
@aaron guest Yea that does seem correct. This question is a pretty interesting one as it would change her whole story.
aaron guest You are correct. The entire Star Wars canon would change into a whole new completely different series.
@aaron guest True
This just helped me with my writing. Thanks.
🤔 . . . What if the Jedi didn’t get the final say in military operations? With certain exceptions concerning humanitarian aid (basically being the military’s moral compass), they don’t take any real leadership positions & aid the military just as ARC troopers do from time to time.
The reason I ask this question the way I did has to do with a comic’s story where Anakin discovers that a planet didn’t join the CIS, they were enslaved. Hence, why Jedi could overrule their Admirals’ decisions when its full of prejudicial bias, run a quick & covert investigative operation, report back & rely on their commanding admiral to make the correct tactical decisions that is morally just…
THUMBNAIL THUMBNAIL THUMBNAIL
they would've been much better off.. listening to Windu from the beginning, they would've been much better off.. word.. sms. .
Your videos make me see that the Jedi have so many faults and cause their own doom and destruction now a really fun video would be is what if all the Jedi got destroyed during The Purge what if the sith ultimately won with no form of resistance or Luke or Lehi surviving
There are a couple problems with the end of the theory. It centers on how the Jedi would react to Anakin and his followers joining the war. When Revan went off the Jedi did not go to war with him, they disapproved but in the end did nothing, and with Anakin being the kind of Jedi he is it would probably be something similar with him. Another fact is that if the Jedi had remained so adamant to remain neutral they would not declare war on Republic commanding Jedi in the middle of a galaxy-wide war (1 because that just sounds like a dumb move, and two it would put the Jedi at odds with the Republic by attacking their commanders) and it also banks on all the young Jedi going dark side on them yet most Jedi in the war did not go Dark side and also there is the Rule of Two to consider.
I think Palpatine would eventually call for Order 66 on the Jedi who entered the war while the Jedi who did not watch as their comrades are killed, then he might try and spin something so that all Jedi appear as the enemy and turn his army on them, except the Jedi would be together and if they fled to a neutral war Palpatine would not immediately be able to attack them as while he declared himself Emperor, at least in the first few years, he still kept up the appearance of democracy so he would need to wait, possible with an uninjured Lord Vader, and make some new plot for an eventual war with the Jedi and the Neutral Systems that might remain neutral if the Jedi joined them and Maul never took over Mandalore.
The JEdi should have vacated Coroscaunt before the clone wars....
The thumbnail is Trainspotting Ewan McGregor and Pulp Fiction Samuel L Jackson
Video suggestion: what if the Imperium of Man invaded the Star Wars Galaxy during the Clone Wars? Would we have a truce between CIS and Republic? Would any Star Wars faction be able to reverse engineer 40k hardware or the Imperium woul just slowly but surely conquer the Star wars galaxy?
Suggestion: US Marines vs Galactic Marines
The 5th Jedi schism and the Jedi leaving Coursant idea sound like a great story archs
Either way, clones will still die. Whether to the incompetence of command or to need the Jedi's help for a mission or saving them. Especially Grievous...
The conclusion I draw is, the Force would’ve balanced itself one way or another
So Anakin would have been his errors version of Revan.
The Jedi really screwed up when they had all of their Jedi in one basket. They should have really stuck with Outpost like Dantooine or even some of the outer rim. Those systems would have been a lot harder for the clone troopers to get to. And definitely make sure those facilities are not on public record.
With the Jedi so interconnected with the Republic it wouldn’t matter much. Most likely there would have been clones stationed at every Jedi outpost. Even if that wasn’t the case there locations would still be widely known. Thus attack groups would strike whence Order 66 was issued no matter what. The best thing would have been the Jedi to be separated from any government power so they could be true servants of the common people. Yet the Jedi also needed those government connections to effectively in force the peace.
@@MandalorV7 Through out alot of the books there were other force sensitive groups outside of the Jedi. The more open minded jedi could have tried to foster better relationships with those groups. When the time came, they could have had refuge from the Empire. The Jedi could have tried to establish an outpost on Dagobah.
I’ve been thinking about this for a long time thank you for making this!
I've always had this view that Dooku was right about the Jedi Order not being directly loyal to the senate. Governments can become corrupt as the Republic did. They should be natural in times when there two or more galactic governments are on the verge of war. They should focus on making sure both sides do not commit horrendous atrocities against the people of the galaxy and work towards finding a peaceful resolution between the factions. They can even have treaties with governments that allow them to do what they've done with the Republic such as recruit citizens of their worlds while helping to maintain peace and order without getting involved in conflicts that would be considered a violation of the Jedi code.
Oof. Palpatine's propaganda would spell out another very Mandalorian Wars/Jedi Civil War situation, but with Anakin instead of Revan. Then the same Jedi hate would come back.
I always thought that it would have made a LOT more sense for the Jedi order to demure from the Clone Wars, with Obi-Wan and Anakin specifically BREAKING with the order and serving with a planetary defense force like ALDERAN which Leia explicitly says Obi-Wan served 'my father as a general' in her holo-message. The prequels would have lost NOTHING as far as action other then the terrible Geonosis colosseum lightsaber orgy. And the whole galaxies attitude towards the Jedi 'old sad useless religion' would make sense rather then the order 66 mess which would leave the people of the galaxy polarized into two camps those that swallowed imperial propaganda and thought of the Jedi as a 'power-hungry mad cult' and the rest thinking of them as 'martyrs murdered by the Emperor'.
This is just one of the many areas where the prequels blatantly fail to respect the world building of the Original Trilogy.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't. My guy Palpatine really held ALL the cards the entire time that's pretty scary
New fanfic idea planted in my head: alternate universe in which the Jedi didn’t get involved in the war, and Rebel!Anakin radicalizes Obi-Wan and Ashoka into his pro-war, pro Palpatine Jedi offshoot, complete with an army of young Dark Jedi commanded by their “holy trinity” and start a Jedi civil war, Palpatine finding it such an amusing change of plans he doesn’t even activate Order 66, just waits for the Jedi to kill themselves.
The path to be Generals in the Grand Army of the Republic was not their only choice. Healers, builders, repairers, was a choice. Leading/training the local defense forces. Leaving the galaxy for a remote/hidden world. Being under their own separate command, and letting someone else in charge of the clones. Lots of options, other than being forced into a role that they were ill suited to be.
*What Is That Thumbnail?!*
Perfection
This has nothing to do with the video specifically but has anybody else ever looked at the size of the GAR and thought that there was no way that it could possibly be that small? Think about it, 1.2 million clones to fight a galactic war across tens of thousands of worlds. That’s basically the size of the U.S. armed forces, which probably couldn’t even conquer Earth let along control and defend an entire galaxy. It’s just ridiculous.
nice! your alternate plot sounded a lot more intriguing
and believable
The Schism only would happen if the Council wanted it. Kenobi as part of it would advise against it, and even Yoda would too. The council would be split and in the end nothing would happen. The Order is quite vague about what a member can and can't do. Joining the war might not be considered going against the order, after all the pro-republic members aren't turning into Sith, and they don't know the truth about Palpatine. Remember, it wasn't until Anakin snitches to Mace that he Mace finally found out the truth that he was a Sith Lord. You know this by Mace's expression of shock and disbelief.
The Jedi didn't even think Palpatine was a Sith lord until Anikan told them. They sensed the dark force around him, but always assumed the real culprit was someone in his inner circle. Oddly enough, they were prepared to depose of him by force instead of confronting him trough the Senate despite them thinking Palpatine himself was nothing more than a run out of the mill corrupt politician, which given what they knew at that time is certainly an extreme action.
And it's one, two, three, what are we fighting for?
don't ask me I don't give a shit, next stop is planet Kashyyyk
And it's five, six, seven, open up the pearly gates
ain't no time to wonder why, because we're all gonna fry on Oba Diah.
Hell, no! We won't go!