"But...that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want...As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack." 2 Cor. 8:14-15
Thank you, brother Lawrence, for talking about this matter. They should resign yesterday. How dare they use God's money in this way. Mercy. God has mercy. In old times they would be put in jail or killed by the Government. Other conferences will follow the lead because many SDA's are aware of the leaders arrogancy. Let us pray for them the leaders. God bless you.
Its just a matter of time before other conferences fail in this way too! In Mn; 75% of the academy students were worthy students; meaning they were paying nothing on their bills!! Thats a drag on the conference. Many of our schools have zero work programs! Tuition at maplewood academy this year is around 18,000 ( this is the same for village students). Our corporate conferences and church is no different than the world. Social justice and wokeness has invaded the church. That financial officer there in Oregon needs to resign or get fired! In Mn now we have regular camp mtg, black camp mtg, womens retreat, mens retreat, black couples retreat etc etc. it’s just a matter of time. All humans are equal; why is the church separating people out by race???? Things better change
Brother Lawrence, I would encourage you to do some significant research on this. Working in finance myself, quite often there is "non-financial" information that impacts the financial data. Numbers and graphs can only tell part of a story.
They increased expenses to 'cover up' their 'foot' prints. Many wolves in sheep clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves: Matthew 7:15: I will never forget how my 'poor' father invested his funeral money in the Burial Aid Fund (that was the name at the time), dont know what they call it now, of the church, Jamaica, and he did not get a cent to help bury him. A wolve walked away with all the money. Not for my father alone, but for many other poor members.
Im in Oregon, the tithes actually increased not decreased. Im not sure why they claim that. One of the major reasons for the increase in expenses was the fact of rising healthcare costs. The retired Adventist workers get medical coversge until they die. At the same time we are losing membership everywhere. The church is aging and other factors caused a decrease in active membership. Everything is costing more if you have not noticed.
Like everywhere else we have lost members for many various reasons. Many youth leave during their College years and others embrace movements that are negative and draw away members. Worldliness is a huge factor..what is the cause?? You probably have your own ideas. But Adventism has always been a remnant message and is not going to be popular. The strongest growing churches are faithful and dedicated. My home church is such a church. @@MSB780
Maybe if they could just print their own worthless paper money to fund their dubious expenditures, they could kick the can on down the road so that their children or grandchildren would inherit the debt they cannot handle. Works for Biden, for whom many of these "leaders" likely voted! (Yes, I know: how could I possibly know that? Don't waste your breath with that.)
Church members in this conference voted with their pocketbook. This will continue until people have confidence in the conference. What about woke politics? This is an area of America that has a large LGBT population. It is a shame to the whole church. Will the NAD intervene?
You have to put the right person knowledgeable and God-minded. And believe me I know. A treasurer is the spinal cord of an organization. Until the leaders stop playing politics God is not going to bless. Inadequate leaders do a lot of damage to the church. And we as church members need to do our homework and really inform ourselves before sending delegates to name our conference’s leaders or any leadership at at any level of the church.
If we sent them 10 million dollars each they would still figure out a way to blow it. Let them cut salaries. Stop paying pastors so much to do so little.
Maybe they should ask Ted Wilson for some advice and money he's a millionaire? God will sustain his true church and will tear down everything that isn't fruitful.
Yes - Mrs. White told of a dream she had that represented a storm or violent wind that blew away ALL of the visible, titled (corporate, as I read it) "leaders" and left the people WITHOUT leadership - until God raised up godly men from the ranks, men who had NO desire for the usual "benefits" or glory. I would think that this particular prophecy would make many of the big dogs rather nervous - and the higher up, the more nervous!
I think that the state of the economy over the last four years has been hard on all people, except the very rich. Our Church members are struggling to afford housing, food, gas and health care. Some are not giving their full tithe, some cannot give much in offerings. Many of our churches are struggling financially. One thing that puzzled me was the many children that had to be financed to get to the big camp out in Wyoming this year. Why not provide a closer, less expensive alternative when members cannot pay?? Also, are our Conference Leaders Really making as much as has been mentioned on this line? That would be preposterous, and it would change my view on how much we can really trust and put confidence in these Leaders. Brother Lawrence, please clarify this point. Thank you.
Are they left to fight their battle alone? . Don't they belong to a world wide movement of SDA's?. We preach that the strong ought to help the weak and recently it was aired on the interned that this worldwide movement is worth 15.6 billion dollars. Surely there is the scope to help out a weak sister conference. However, the audit function and other management management supervisory tools needs to be performed with regularity.
Exactly what I was thinking. The Bible says in Ecclesiastes that two are better than one for if one falls the other can lift them up and there are more than two conferences in the SDA organization of churches.
Brother, there is a major problem across the board. They are responsible for managing the money entrusted in their care. When they irresponsibly spend and do not take heed to what they have available they are responsible for their demise. The conference officers never took a reduction to assist in the problem but were all comfortable to lay off pastors. Total mismanagement and God is letting them pay for their irresponsible behavior.
I would like to know what were those extra expenses that they added. Maybe it was extra because they were trying to revitalize the tithe and offering message to the members. overall, this is not good. People are lacking faith in the tithing principle of the church. I wonder what is going on at the local level, not so much at the top.
Bro Lawrence do you know what effect the measures in COVID 19 had on the fall of the finances in that conference? I am thinking of closures of churches, unemployment, previous Conference plans etc Why if members can do without church attendance for years, why can't they not avoid it? This problem is more than the church management can handle. Find out what happened in the churches that did not go into lockdown financially. Members worldwide should pray to God before making decisions or coming to conclusions.
Yes, Oregon went with the majority of Conferences and cooperated with the government... Many active members still are staying home. It's a tragedy. At the time my gut feeling was it would hurt attendance and so far it is still a factor. Many watch online services. Others just became alienated. Our church is reaching out to them and some have returned. We are blessed with a solid Godly man who pastors our congregation
Left Coast SDA Conference WOKE go broke. I am not surprised as the many historic 7th Day Adventists are not surprised either. Maybe this is the best thing that could happen to them. Jesus is possibly trying to get their attention. When conferences or persons hit the bottom of the barrel, the one thing often happens, you look up. When you look up and get your mind off of self, salvation may be found.
Brother Lawrence, I disagree with what you said that you see it as the devil stopping the work of God. That's just it, you see because God is making an example of The 'professed' Seventh-Day Adventists, And this is because they were NOT doing God's work. So God Himself is loosing them to their own iniquity. God is not pleased. Satan did not do this to them. They did it to themselves brother.
You cannot always blame the VP for Finance. Often it's the Executive Committee who approves and votes finances. They need to be responsible for their decisions. The VP for Finance can be out voted by a decision but still needs to abide by the decision that has been voted.
Dear Brother Lawrence, I would encourage you not to assume so much as you do in this video ... As a member of a church here in Oregon Conference it is a very complicated matter why we are in this condition. I assure you and your viewers that all is being addressed and the problem people have already been dealt with. You don't need to spread misinformation or make assumptions about this. I'm not sure why you feel the need to be a watchdog in matter's like this. I ask you to cease please. I subscribed to your channel and for the most part have agreed with you, but not in this.
What is the misinformation here? Whatever I talked about was on your website (the website of the conference) Tell me what misinformation there is in the video. Just tell me one. 😁 1. Was there camp meeting for 2024, NO 2. Were some pastors laid off, YES 3. Were expenses increased even though revenue to the conference was decreasing, YES. 4. Did the leaders manage the finances of the conference well, NO. 5. Should they resign? So please what is the misinformation in the video. Kindly visit the Oregon conference website and the facts are there. I didn’t put it there. The conference put it there.
What is going on in Oregon is a sample of what is going on in the GC. This is a tip of the iceberg. God is revealing the sins of the leadership, covering up their sins is not healthy. You are being rebuked, let God cleanse the conference and wait on Him in prayer.
Yes sir!what's the problem with what he saying here, he not saying anything wrong, he just letting people know what's going on with the GC.Where there is no vision,the people perish:but he that keepeth the law, happy is he. (Proverbs 29vs18)
Local churchs demand accountability and should be given it. Its always easy to SPEND spend spend someone else’s money and then when the problem comes cuz they’re in the red they beg and plead for more all the while not learning anything
Where there is no vision THE PEOPLE PERISH!
"But...that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want...As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack." 2 Cor. 8:14-15
The church needs to know what there are doing with God's money
Thank you, brother Lawrence, for talking about this matter. They should resign yesterday. How dare they use God's money in this way. Mercy. God has mercy. In old times they would be put in jail or killed by the Government. Other conferences will follow the lead because many SDA's are aware of the leaders arrogancy. Let us pray for them the leaders. God bless you.
Its just a matter of time before other conferences fail in this way too! In Mn; 75% of the academy students were worthy students; meaning they were paying nothing on their bills!! Thats a drag on the conference. Many of our schools have zero work programs! Tuition at maplewood academy this year is around 18,000 ( this is the same for village students).
Our corporate conferences and church is no different than the world. Social justice and wokeness has invaded the church.
That financial officer there in Oregon needs to resign or get fired!
In Mn now we have regular camp mtg, black camp mtg, womens retreat, mens retreat, black couples retreat etc etc. it’s just a matter of time. All humans are equal; why is the church separating people out by race????
Things better change
Brother Lawrence, I would encourage you to do some significant research on this. Working in finance myself, quite often there is "non-financial" information that impacts the financial data. Numbers and graphs can only tell part of a story.
They increased expenses to 'cover up' their 'foot' prints. Many wolves in sheep clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves: Matthew 7:15: I will never forget how my 'poor' father invested his funeral money in the Burial Aid Fund (that was the name at the time), dont know what they call it now, of the church, Jamaica, and he did not get a cent to help bury him. A wolve walked away with all the money. Not for my father alone, but for many other poor members.
That's so sad!
People are not giving offerrings and tithes because they are not being fed.
Im in Oregon, the tithes actually increased not decreased. Im not sure why they claim that. One of the major reasons for the increase in expenses was the fact of rising healthcare costs. The retired Adventist workers get medical coversge until they die. At the same time we are losing membership everywhere. The church is aging and other factors caused a decrease in active membership. Everything is costing more if you have not noticed.
What active members?
Like everywhere else we have lost members for many various reasons. Many youth leave during their College years and others embrace movements that are negative and draw away members. Worldliness is a huge factor..what is the cause?? You probably have your own ideas. But Adventism has always been a remnant message and is not going to be popular. The strongest growing churches are faithful and dedicated. My home church is such a church. @@MSB780
Maybe if they could just print their own worthless paper money to fund their dubious expenditures, they could kick the can on down the road so that their children or grandchildren would inherit the debt they cannot handle. Works for Biden, for whom many of these "leaders" likely voted!
(Yes, I know: how could I possibly know that? Don't waste your breath with that.)
There’s a bigger question that needs to be asked. Why is the tithe dropping?
God will provide but many people are using Babylons tools instead of faith.
Church members in this conference voted with their pocketbook.
This will continue until people have confidence in the conference.
What about woke politics? This is an area of America that has a large LGBT population.
It is a shame to the whole church. Will the NAD intervene?
You have to put the right person knowledgeable and God-minded. And believe me I know. A treasurer is the spinal cord of an organization. Until the leaders stop playing politics God is not going to bless. Inadequate leaders do a lot of damage to the church. And we as church members need to do our homework and really inform ourselves before sending delegates to name our conference’s leaders or any leadership at at any level of the church.
I am happy in all of my shortcomings there has never been a time God called for my resignation. Blessings!
Thanks for sharing
There should be an independent investigation in the matter
Isn't this Conference a part of a union.
Don't they report to someone
Yes. The North Pacific Conference Union is based in Southern Washington just north of Portland.
Can the G.C. bail out the confdrence ? I heard that all the conference have to finance them. This is not good, the SDA church has money
Signs of the time. Soon cannot buy or sell. It is the beggining of econominal crisis.
Thank you for telling the truth!!!
If we sent them 10 million dollars each they would still figure out a way to blow it. Let them cut salaries. Stop paying pastors so much to do so little.
Our GC leader makes over $200mil per year! Let him give some of that income to them!😒
Are you saying that is the salary that GC leader is being paid per year out of tithe money that is returned to the lord ????
I agree
Where is accountability?
Say it loud & clear Bro Lawrence!! They need to go now..greedy hands
Maybe they should ask Ted Wilson for some advice and money he's a millionaire? God will sustain his true church and will tear down everything that isn't fruitful.
Yes - Mrs. White told of a dream she had that represented a storm or violent wind that blew away ALL of the visible, titled (corporate, as I read it) "leaders" and left the people WITHOUT leadership - until God raised up godly men from the ranks, men who had NO desire for the usual "benefits" or glory. I would think that this particular prophecy would make many of the big dogs rather nervous - and the higher up, the more nervous!
I think that the state of the economy over the last four years has been hard on all people, except the very rich. Our Church members are struggling to afford housing, food, gas and health care. Some are not giving their full tithe, some cannot give much in offerings. Many of our churches are struggling financially. One thing that puzzled me was the many children that had to be financed to get to the big camp out in Wyoming this year. Why not provide a closer, less expensive alternative when members cannot pay?? Also, are our Conference Leaders Really making as much as has been mentioned on this line? That would be preposterous, and it would change my view on how much we can really trust and put confidence in these Leaders. Brother Lawrence, please clarify this point. Thank you.
Where is all the money that the general conference has?What are they going to do with it when probation closes for the sda church?
Is the membership also decreasing or just the tithe & offering?
Lord have mercy
That conference needs to be audited by the Union office or the next body in line. I smell embezzlement.
They are the same. Independent auditors from the church should be auditing the conferences and unions, division and the GC
Are they left to fight their battle alone? . Don't they belong to a world wide movement of SDA's?. We preach that the strong ought to help the weak and recently it was aired on the interned that this worldwide movement is worth 15.6 billion dollars. Surely there is the scope to help out a weak sister conference.
However, the audit function and other management management supervisory tools needs to be performed with regularity.
Exactly what I was thinking. The Bible says in Ecclesiastes that two are better than one for if one falls the other can lift them up and there are more than two conferences in the SDA organization of churches.
Tell them to pray and trusting in jesus
Brother, there is a major problem across the board. They are responsible for managing the money entrusted in their care. When they irresponsibly spend and do not take heed to what they have available they are responsible for their demise. The conference officers never took a reduction to assist in the problem but were all comfortable to lay off pastors. Total mismanagement and God is letting them pay for their irresponsible behavior.
Go woke go broke
YES! There in a nutshell....
Embezlement. Multiple SDA institutions have been affected. By it from healthcare to churches
They need to pray and reach out to Elon Musk and Donald Trump
😂why are you so bad😂
Pray to Musk and Trump? What a novel concept! Now that the election didn't go their way, they can try to switch sides. Genius!
@@YahWho-is1tt lol
I would like to know what were those extra expenses that they added. Maybe it was extra because they were trying to revitalize the tithe and offering message to the members. overall, this is not good. People are lacking faith in the tithing principle of the church. I wonder what is going on at the local level, not so much at the top.
I can see your righteous indignation. I feel it too!
Bro Lawrence do you know what effect the measures in COVID 19 had on the fall of the finances in that conference? I am thinking of closures of churches, unemployment, previous Conference plans etc Why if members can do without church attendance for years, why can't they not avoid it? This problem is more than the church management can handle. Find out what happened in the churches that did not go into lockdown financially. Members worldwide should pray to God before making decisions or coming to conclusions.
Yes, Oregon went with the majority of Conferences and cooperated with the government... Many active members still are staying home. It's a tragedy. At the time my gut feeling was it would hurt attendance and so far it is still a factor. Many watch online services. Others just became alienated. Our church is reaching out to them and some have returned. We are blessed with a solid Godly man who pastors our congregation
That is the reason for the rainy day fund. But, if it is mismanaged or leaders do not have vision, natural consequences will occur.
Pastors' children are sponsored by the tithes which the give back to God
Left Coast SDA Conference WOKE go broke. I am not surprised as the many historic 7th Day Adventists are not surprised either.
Maybe this is the best thing that could happen to them. Jesus is possibly trying to get their attention. When conferences or persons hit the bottom of the barrel, the one thing often happens, you look up. When you look up and get your mind off of self, salvation may be found.
Something is not right, God can sustain His ministry, they all need to go soul searching. I don’t think the Lord is with them.
Yes something is wrong i do agree with you
Brother Lawrence, I disagree with what you said that you see it as the devil stopping the work of God. That's just it, you see because God is making an example of The 'professed' Seventh-Day Adventists, And this is because they were NOT doing God's work. So God Himself is loosing them to their own iniquity. God is not pleased. Satan did not do this to them. They did it to themselves brother.
You making false teaching
. could you please stop against the Sabbath people.becouse seventh 7 Sabbath is truth.
You cannot always blame the VP for Finance. Often it's the Executive Committee who approves and votes finances. They need to be responsible for their decisions. The VP for Finance can be out voted by a decision but still needs to abide by the decision that has been voted.
Dear Brother Lawrence, I would encourage you not to assume so much as you do in this video ... As a member of a church here in Oregon Conference it is a very complicated matter why we are in this condition. I assure you and your viewers that all is being addressed and the problem people have already been dealt with. You don't need to spread misinformation or make assumptions about this. I'm not sure why you feel the need to be a watchdog in matter's like this. I ask you to cease please. I subscribed to your channel and for the most part have agreed with you, but not in this.
What is the misinformation here? Whatever I talked about was on your website (the website of the conference)
Tell me what misinformation there is in the video. Just tell me one. 😁
1. Was there camp meeting for 2024, NO
2. Were some pastors laid off, YES
3. Were expenses increased even though revenue to the conference was decreasing, YES.
4. Did the leaders manage the finances of the conference well, NO.
5. Should they resign?
So please what is the misinformation in the video.
Kindly visit the Oregon conference website and the facts are there. I didn’t put it there. The conference put it there.
What is going on in Oregon is a sample of what is going on in the GC. This is a tip of the iceberg. God is revealing the sins of the leadership, covering up their sins is not healthy. You are being rebuked, let God cleanse the conference and wait on Him in prayer.
Yes sir!what's the problem with what he saying here, he not saying anything wrong, he just letting people know what's going on with the GC.Where there is no vision,the people perish:but he that keepeth the law, happy is he. (Proverbs 29vs18)
Local churchs demand accountability and should be given it.
Its always easy to SPEND spend spend someone else’s money and then when the problem comes cuz they’re in the red they beg and plead for more all the while not learning anything
Yes. The devil is on duty's duty at every corner,, even at the GC HAVVE. TO. RESIGN AS. WELL