As a avid sport shooter . I would like to thank you Sam and Mark for your keen interest and passion in the Shooting arena . Thanks for the great content 👍
I'm really glad someone agreed with me on gyroscopic stability. I know it's a real thing , because I have one rifle that does this. A 300 Winchester Magnum , using Berger VLD bullet's. I can use a 150 grain flat base bullet in the rifle and print 1/4 moa groups at 100 yards. It's very accurate. So then I use the VLD. The rifle groups concentric groups just below an inch at 100 yards. So at 200 yards, 3/4 inch groups consistently, 300 yard groups 1 1/4" groups consistently, 600 yards- 2 inch groups consistently. Now this is the only rifle bullet combination I have seen this in,but it does exist. Bryan Litz of Berger bullet's had a $50000.00 reward if anyone could prove this theory of gyroscopic stability. I tried to get a hold of him to no avail. I need the 50 k for more rifles,Lol.
Good video. I liked the answer about the MIL vs MOA. From Canada so I'm also one of those who has the entire mismatch of systems running around in my mind. I would like to do Mil but MOA just fits in my mind easier. Always glad to see an upload. Cheers.
Oh BUD!--- I'm from Ontario.....and I HEAR YOU! I basically measure EVERYTHING in the old Imperial system.....yet am whipped to metric everywhere else!.. it's CRAZY!.....I am 39 years old
I'm 49. When i went through school during the 70's and 80's here in Australia it was all Metric. But i spent my childhood and teen years pouring through any shooting publication i could get my hands on. It was before the internet and most of it was in the form of US shooting mags, and even the Australian publications gave specs and figures in imperial. So even though i was educated in Metric i actually understood imperial better because i retained that information better by virtue of my passion for firearms and shooting.
I kind of feel you with the bilingual thing. Being American I obviously grew up on the imperial system but I was also taught the metric system and it always made so much more since to me in a lot of ways. Plus I grew up in a very car oriented fix everything family
Hi Mark, I thinks its simple. If you want to use mills, you work in meters. If you like moa then you work in yards. I grew up exclusively with the metric system and for me I use yards and moa. Calling shots at distance is easier to visualize, ( spotter calls 10" left of target at 2000 yards is quicker to visualize then saying 25cm).
Mark thank you for putting all of this information in layman's terms it's very easy to understand and you're really good at it. If I ever get to Perth again which I've been 10 times I want to drive east and see your equipment that would be awesome
You know, I was honestly surprised when he said that. I would have guessed about 43. Man he's almost as old as I am but I could pass for his grandfather. Yikes.
The best by far explanation of metric vs imperial that I have ever heard...(I still have SAE in my head Society of Automotive Engineers. But even that has been changed to Unified something or other... I'm too old ...don't like all these changes)
Hi 👋 Mark, Just can’t get enough knowledge from you. You are the man . When you go to the hereafter you still will be pursuing knowledge. If I may let me take you to the other end of the spectrum..ARCHERY. At 85 I have done it all..Mostly. Shot all the vertical bows , won many nat’l championships , Olympic Archery Coach. Presently a deer 🦌 hunter with over 💯 kills. Iam using a crossbow and my approach to my sport is mutual to yours . I make , crest my own shafts , work on FOC to 710 grains.. Shooting ethical distances up to 50 yards. The bow shoots 350 FPS ( minuscule by your standings) but 1/2” groups @ 20yds . The reason for all of this is not only the killing shot but for perfection , and the ultimate end result 210 ft/lbs of KE.. Like you I can vary the weight of my shaft 1 grain at a time. I love 💗 my sport as you do yours. You are an excellent teacher.. Cheers to you!! I
Hi Robert, sounds like you would have a wealth of knowledge, and we also do a bit with bows, long, recurve, target recurve and compound, very good at development aiming skills, learning to stabilize, and release/trigger control, etc, etc. Thanks very much for the comment, Cheers and all our best.
Ryan Heider •• Thank you 🙏🏿..A long time ago it started with the longbow, recurve all purely instinctive . I used the gap method with three fingers under . I was known then as the string walker . 4 arrows in a 12” dia circle at 65 yds . Piece of cake back then . Now I ask myself ..HOW DID I DO THAT ? Then enter the compound with sights. It made 🦌 deer hunting more ethical .Now in the twilight of my life I have a crossbow.. The ultimate..If you pursue deer then you know that they can jump the string,,,so no matter your aiming point they are beginning to turn and lower their bodies the moment your string is loosed.. The secret for us is breathing as it is for Mark & Sam ..Stay Dave
Like yourself , work wise I work in both systems. Same with shooting , I work mostly mils but I measure in yards as that's what I can visualise plus my short legs pace in yards.
Great information, rare to see someone defending Imperial measurements. It's what we learn here in the states. On the "changing groups" discussion, I read something similar in Robert Rinker's book titled "Understanding Firearm Ballistics" in which I believe he termed the phenomenon as the bullet "going to sleep". To me, it would seem that this oscillation could be caused by the bullet being yawed as it is engaging the rifling for some reason. I've heard of over stabilization, but not sure it applies here.Thanks for taking the time to address these things. Edit-sp
I have read something about this too. I think it is the main idea behind case neck turning. Having a uniform neck thickness releasing the bullet evenly. also bullet concentricity would be another contributing factor. I recently have been paying very close attention to this in my reloading and groups have improved.
Yes, that is as explained, more about a unusual combination, generally order style bullets, and as said, not something that gets worse, then better, but hope that makes sense and really trying to help people look deeper into the real issue, rather than blame an issues on something that although possible very unlikely, Cheers
I’ve been binge watching your posts, can’t remember how many vids back but you had mentioned installing a ballistics app. Which one would you recommend for 7mm rem mag factory loads?
I have to use both. I’m the first to support SI I’m fully metric in life. But fully conversant and interchangeable from archaic and modern. However: Firearms are different. That’s imperial except distance, that’s in is in Meters. Works with mils well. 1click = 1cm at 100m.
Love your work, thanks for another great video. If you ever bring out rifle slings, I’ll buy the first two. Have you done any Smallblock Mopar stuff on the car side of things?
Love your vids. Would love to see an ELR shoot with some out of the box hunting rifle/scopes just for fun. It would be interesting to see what you could do with a tikka t3x or Remington 700
Shooting isn’t that much different from tuning an engine. Very few tuners will tell you how to make ale something better unless you are a customer. I wish I knew half as much about shooting as you do. My entire life it has been did you hit the target hunting or are you going home hungry. I stopped hunting other than occasionally but love to shoot. That to me is fun. Just hitting the target. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!
Hello Marc , very interested in getting into long range shooting, this will be new to me and were I live we don’t have a gunsmith nearby, what do you recommend as a first target rifle to start with and caliber , Great video sir .
on groups getting better or settling. i have a theory from my own exsperiance.. i suspect the farther you go the more concentration you input and therefor driving down you group size.
You mean you're not loading those new heat-seeking bullets in all of your guns nowadays that even if they get a little unstable they'll re-stabilized and hit the target exactly where you're aiming? 🤣🤣🤣😛 Excellent content as always!
Hi Mark, Excellent video as always, however, I have what I think is a very humerus question for you. I noticed that you have a black finger nail. I know how to get them, I have had numerous ones over my 52 years. l was wondering if the cuss words spoken upon impact were imperial or metric? I know all the imperial ones.......are there any metric ones?!?! LMAF
I h8 imperial but . I shoot in imperial everything else in life is metric. It’s nice to separate the 2 I’m 37 so I only knew metric but my dad drilled imperial spanner 🔧 size in my head early on and not just the ones he threw at me lol 😂
Mark, it would seem that you don't believe the concept of a "bullet going to sleep" - comment? The British DoD did tests in 1926 that determined that the .303 Enfield used at that time showed the greatest accuracy at 600 yards - how would you account for that?
No, as said this can happen, but rarely, more about a unusual combination, generally older style bullets, and as said, not something that gets worse, then better, but hope that makes sense and really trying to help people look deeper into the real issue, rather than blame an issues on something that although possible very unlikely, Cheers
RPM v Length and Mass, well that's a start anyway, but for our purposes, follow the bullet manufacturers recommendations, they will list twist needed, Cheers
The truth is that metric standards are more arbitrary than Imperial. People who like metric were just taught wrong and bad at fractions. Also, radians are not metric! They predate metric by centuries I think. They are related to pi, not meters or decimals.
Sorry but can you explain how imperial is better for every day life? Being able to simply multiply or divide by a factor of 10 is far more easy than mucking around with 5/16ths and stupid things like that, it’s an outdated system and makes no sense, metric was designed to be a universal system that just works. Imperial is just old made up measurements that do not mesh well together and the Americans won’t let it go
@@devinb3397 easy, feet come from the avg foot size, yards from paces, cups from cups, stone from stones and so on. even miles come from antiquated units such as an oxpull or a furlong, which come are based on farming. Not to mention threads, hex sizes and just about everything else industrial came out of england during the industrial revolution. These measurements became standard because they were common and useful for the applications from which they were derived. None of it is arbitraury at all.
Just cause “you can use a calculator now” doesn’t mean it’s easier to understand or that an argument is moot 5/16 for example “Oh our units are 16th’s, how many? 5, that’s a bit more than 1/4? 6.35, what’s left, 1/16? That’s 1.49? Brings us to 7.84mm?” Might as well just use thou “7.84mm? 280 + 32 + 1.6, 313.6thou?” In imperial/SAE/whatever it’s not just “inches”, it’s half, quarter, eighth, sixteenth, etc all acting like another scale that must be converted to be understood Just use thou at that point
6400 mils far more accurate than imperial 360 deg. Yes im ex Army, so for any measurement, metric for this Ex Sapper. Imperial only prevail due to USA not adopting metric.
The poor guy shooting the decked out 338 Lapua magnum "sniper" rifle was sitting on the bench next to me. His girlfriend was watching him through the spotter. I didn't know you were watching too? Anyway, we started shooting. After a while I hear the girlfriend say, that guys just outshot your with iron sights!!!!!! I look over and she winks at me. The younger marine looks at me like, eat shit and die. I finished shooting my 10 shot group and then looked downrange at my target with my spotter. Yep, 100-4x, but about a 1 1/2" 10 shot group. Then I look over to the left and the poor guy shooting the fancy 338 lapua shot a 3-4" 3 shot group. I asked if he wanted to go down and set up another target and he says, "no I'm done".. Your story reminded me of something that actually happened to me. Guys making excuses because they can't shoot... About sums it up..
![Chino Pacas - Modo Capone (with Drake & Fuerza Regida) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zjv8TQ0gBkg/mqdefault.jpg)
As a avid sport shooter . I would like to thank you Sam and Mark for your keen interest and passion in the Shooting arena . Thanks for the great content 👍
Thanks John, cheers
I'm really glad someone agreed with me on gyroscopic stability. I know it's a real thing , because I have one rifle that does this. A 300 Winchester Magnum , using Berger VLD bullet's. I can use a 150 grain flat base bullet in the rifle and print 1/4 moa groups at 100 yards. It's very accurate. So then I use the VLD. The rifle groups concentric groups just below an inch at 100 yards. So at 200 yards, 3/4 inch groups consistently, 300 yard groups 1 1/4" groups consistently, 600 yards- 2 inch groups consistently. Now this is the only rifle bullet combination I have seen this in,but it does exist. Bryan Litz of Berger bullet's had a $50000.00 reward if anyone could prove this theory of gyroscopic stability. I tried to get a hold of him to no avail. I need the 50 k for more rifles,Lol.
Lol, good luck with that, Cheers
Good video. I liked the answer about the MIL vs MOA. From Canada so I'm also one of those who has the entire mismatch of systems running around in my mind. I would like to do Mil but MOA just fits in my mind easier.
Always glad to see an upload. Cheers.
Thanks Bear, glad you like, Cheers
Oh BUD!--- I'm from Ontario.....and I HEAR YOU! I basically measure EVERYTHING in the old Imperial system.....yet am whipped to metric everywhere else!.. it's CRAZY!.....I am 39 years old
I'm 49. When i went through school during the 70's and 80's here in Australia it was all Metric.
But i spent my childhood and teen years pouring through any shooting publication i could get my hands on. It was before the internet and most of it was in the form of US shooting mags, and even the Australian publications gave specs and figures in imperial. So even though i was educated in Metric i actually understood imperial better because i retained that information better by virtue of my passion for firearms and shooting.
Yes, I come from a similar place, and for me as said imperial is just a little better fit, but well, each to their own, lol, Cheers
This stuff is brilliant mate, great work!
cheers Keiran, thanks
Great video well explained and very interesting!
Thanks Man, Cheers
Great discussion and info as always; thx for sharing :)
Thanks Oddur, Cheers
Really good stuff
Thanks Jay, Cheers
I kind of feel you with the bilingual thing. Being American I obviously grew up on the imperial system but I was also taught the metric system and it always made so much more since to me in a lot of ways. Plus I grew up in a very car oriented fix everything family
Cheers
Hi Mark, I thinks its simple. If you want to use mills, you work in meters. If you like moa then you work in yards. I grew up exclusively with the metric system and for me I use yards and moa. Calling shots at distance is easier to visualize, ( spotter calls 10" left of target at 2000 yards is quicker to visualize then saying 25cm).
Thanks Joel, Cheers
Your videos are awesome. Great information and your efforts are really appreciated. Best wishes and stay safe. Thanks a million from Kuwait.
Thanks man, glad you like, Cheers
Mark thank you for putting all of this information in layman's terms it's very easy to understand and you're really good at it. If I ever get to Perth again which I've been 10 times I want to drive east and see your equipment that would be awesome
Cheers Larry, Thanks
I don’t know whether I can ever trust you again Mark. You said you’re 57. Anyone can tell you’re not a day over 45 at the oldest! 😉
Lol, don't worry, I feel the pain of every one of those years, Cheers
You know, I was honestly surprised when he said that. I would have guessed about 43. Man he's almost as old as I am but I could pass for his grandfather. Yikes.
I’m Also An Auto & Truck Mechanic 26 Years And Still Wrenching 👨🏼🔧 🧰 Mark I Also Like Yards Vs Meters 😀 Great Advice I Really Like These Videos
Thanks Chris, good on you too, Cheers and al the best.
Appreciate all yall do. Best channel on youtube. Cheers
Cheers
The best by far explanation of metric vs imperial that I have ever heard...(I still have SAE in my head Society of Automotive Engineers. But even that has been changed to Unified something or other... I'm too old ...don't like all these changes)
Yep, lol, Cheers
Hi 👋 Mark, Just can’t get enough knowledge from you. You are the man . When you go to the hereafter you still will be pursuing knowledge. If I may let me take you to the other end of the spectrum..ARCHERY. At 85 I have done it all..Mostly. Shot all the vertical bows , won many nat’l championships , Olympic Archery Coach. Presently a deer 🦌 hunter with over 💯 kills. Iam using a crossbow and my approach to my sport is mutual to yours . I make , crest my own shafts , work on FOC to 710 grains.. Shooting ethical distances up to 50 yards. The bow shoots 350 FPS ( minuscule by your standings) but 1/2” groups @ 20yds . The reason for all of this is not only the killing shot but for perfection , and the ultimate end result 210 ft/lbs of KE.. Like you I can vary the weight of my shaft 1 grain at a time. I love 💗 my sport as you do yours. You are an excellent teacher.. Cheers to you!! I
Great comment. How do you prefer to shoot, with sights or intuitive?
Hi Robert, sounds like you would have a wealth of knowledge, and we also do a bit with bows, long, recurve, target recurve and compound, very good at development aiming skills, learning to stabilize, and release/trigger control, etc, etc. Thanks very much for the comment, Cheers and all our best.
Ryan Heider •• Thank you 🙏🏿..A long time ago it started with the longbow, recurve all purely instinctive . I used the gap method with three fingers under . I was known then as the string walker . 4 arrows in a 12” dia circle at 65 yds . Piece of cake back then . Now I ask myself ..HOW DID I DO THAT ? Then enter the compound with sights. It made 🦌 deer hunting more ethical .Now in the twilight of my life I have a crossbow.. The ultimate..If you pursue deer then you know that they can jump the string,,,so no matter your aiming point they are beginning to turn and lower their bodies the moment your string is loosed.. The secret for us is breathing as it is for Mark & Sam ..Stay Dave
Yes the compound bows and adjustable sites are just a game changer, lots of fun too, Cheers
In archery we call it the “yips” when you start getting too much into your own head. Most of the time going back to basics helps a lot.
Yep, good fundamentals is always the key, Cheers
great work!
Cheers
Like yourself , work wise I work in both systems. Same with shooting , I work mostly mils but I measure in yards as that's what I can visualise plus my short legs pace in yards.
Hi Hammy, Cheers
That's why we learn ballistic...
🖖🏻🇫🇷😎🇫🇷🤪🇫🇷🖖🏻
Cheers
Great information, rare to see someone defending Imperial measurements. It's what we learn here in the states. On the "changing groups" discussion, I read something similar in Robert Rinker's book titled "Understanding Firearm Ballistics" in which I believe he termed the phenomenon as the bullet "going to sleep". To me, it would seem that this oscillation could be caused by the bullet being yawed as it is engaging the rifling for some reason. I've heard of over stabilization, but not sure it applies here.Thanks for taking the time to address these things. Edit-sp
I have read something about this too. I think it is the main idea behind case neck turning. Having a uniform neck thickness releasing the bullet evenly. also bullet concentricity would be another contributing factor. I recently have been paying very close attention to this in my reloading and groups have improved.
Yes, that is as explained, more about a unusual combination, generally order style bullets, and as said, not something that gets worse, then better, but hope that makes sense and really trying to help people look deeper into the real issue, rather than blame an issues on something that although possible very unlikely, Cheers
What a great video!
Thanks Man, Cheers
The bullets aren't unstable, it's the nut on the trigger. :)) Good points.
Lol, Cheers
I’ve been binge watching your posts, can’t remember how many vids back but you had mentioned installing a ballistics app. Which one would you recommend for 7mm rem mag factory loads?
We use Strelok Pro
I have to use both. I’m the first to support SI
I’m fully metric in life. But fully conversant and interchangeable from archaic and modern.
However:
Firearms are different. That’s imperial
except distance, that’s in is in Meters. Works with mils well. 1click = 1cm at 100m.
Cheers
Love your work, thanks for another great video. If you ever bring out rifle slings, I’ll buy the first two. Have you done any Smallblock Mopar stuff on the car side of things?
Thanks and yes built a few, Cheers
Love your vids. Would love to see an ELR shoot with some out of the box hunting rifle/scopes just for fun. It would be interesting to see what you could do with a tikka t3x or Remington 700
ruclips.net/video/Sfxe0c5_-9Q/видео.html Cheers
Shooting isn’t that much different from tuning an engine. Very few tuners will tell you how to make ale something better unless you are a customer. I wish I knew half as much about shooting as you do. My entire life it has been did you hit the target hunting or are you going home hungry. I stopped hunting other than occasionally but love to shoot. That to me is fun. Just hitting the target. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!
Thanks Billy, glad too, Cheers
Hell mate, you look and sound bloody good for 57 years old, you look at least 42 MOA younger.
Lol, Thanks Steve
Hello Marc , very interested in getting into long range shooting, this will be new to me and were I live we don’t have a gunsmith nearby, what do you recommend as a first target rifle to start with and caliber , Great video sir .
HI Micheal, sorry I do not make recommendations, I have many videos that go through the many different aspects of the choice, Cheers
EX diesel fitter and 50 and agree better with the imperial system when it comes to shooting., and you look bloody good for 57 lol
Thanks Dan, yep same page, glad you liked, Cheers
on groups getting better or settling. i have a theory from my own exsperiance.. i suspect the farther you go the more concentration you input and therefor driving down you group size.
Well, yes, sometimes that can be a real thing, Cheers
You mean you're not loading those new heat-seeking bullets in all of your guns nowadays that even if they get a little unstable they'll re-stabilized and hit the target exactly where you're aiming? 🤣🤣🤣😛 Excellent content as always!
Yep, self guiding bullets and bullet cam, things we'll pick up with the next batch of unnutainium…lol, Cheers
Hi Mark, Excellent video as always, however, I have what I think is a very humerus question for you. I noticed that you have a black finger nail. I know how to get them, I have had numerous ones over my 52 years.
l was wondering if the cuss words spoken upon impact were imperial or metric? I know all the imperial ones.......are there any metric ones?!?! LMAF
Our best “metric” cuss word is probably the one that starts with C
Thats a really funny comment
Well no, obviously had it in the wrong place, so I don't react much to a squashed finger just a groan and move on, lol, Cheers
👍💯
Cheers
Hope that mangled up finger gets to feeling better soon mate.
Lol, it fine, mechanic hands, always bark missing, sometimes hard to see, Cheers
I h8 imperial but . I shoot in imperial everything else in life is metric. It’s nice to separate the 2 I’m 37 so I only knew metric but my dad drilled imperial spanner 🔧 size in my head early on and not just the ones he threw at me lol 😂
Thanks Chris, Cheers
Mark, it would seem that you don't believe the concept of a "bullet going to sleep" - comment? The British DoD did tests in 1926 that determined that the .303 Enfield used at that time showed the greatest accuracy at 600 yards - how would you account for that?
No, as said this can happen, but rarely, more about a unusual combination, generally older style bullets, and as said, not something that gets worse, then better, but hope that makes sense and really trying to help people look deeper into the real issue, rather than blame an issues on something that although possible very unlikely, Cheers
Holding your age well mate, Whitworth? I've never heard you swear before!
Lol, Cheers
I was borne in Dec 6 1962
Cheers
What Factors Determine a Bullets Gyroscopic Stability 😎
RPM v Length and Mass, well that's a start anyway, but for our purposes, follow the bullet manufacturers recommendations, they will list twist needed, Cheers
MarkandSam AfterWork Thank You 👍🏼Mark
The truth is that metric standards are more arbitrary than Imperial. People who like metric were just taught wrong and bad at fractions.
Also, radians are not metric! They predate metric by centuries I think. They are related to pi, not meters or decimals.
Thanks Joe, and Mil Radians are metric for our means, lol, Cheers
Sorry but can you explain how imperial is better for every day life? Being able to simply multiply or divide by a factor of 10 is far more easy than mucking around with 5/16ths and stupid things like that, it’s an outdated system and makes no sense, metric was designed to be a universal system that just works. Imperial is just old made up measurements that do not mesh well together and the Americans won’t let it go
@@devinb3397 easy, feet come from the avg foot size, yards from paces, cups from cups, stone from stones and so on. even miles come from antiquated units such as an oxpull or a furlong, which come are based on farming. Not to mention threads, hex sizes and just about everything else industrial came out of england during the industrial revolution. These measurements became standard because they were common and useful for the applications from which they were derived. None of it is arbitraury at all.
@@devinb3397 also calculators exist now, so any arguemnts about base 10 being easier to compute are moot
Just cause “you can use a calculator now” doesn’t mean it’s easier to understand or that an argument is moot
5/16 for example
“Oh our units are 16th’s, how many? 5, that’s a bit more than 1/4? 6.35, what’s left, 1/16? That’s 1.49? Brings us to 7.84mm?”
Might as well just use thou
“7.84mm? 280 + 32 + 1.6, 313.6thou?”
In imperial/SAE/whatever it’s not just “inches”, it’s half, quarter, eighth, sixteenth, etc all acting like another scale that must be converted to be understood
Just use thou at that point
👁👁
Cheers
6400 mils far more accurate than imperial 360 deg. Yes im ex Army, so for any measurement, metric for this Ex Sapper. Imperial only prevail due to USA not adopting metric.
Cheers
well, you did not blame the US for the imperial system
Lol, Cheers
There are no free lunches. Information contains value...
Agreed, cheers
The poor guy shooting the decked out 338 Lapua magnum "sniper" rifle was sitting on the bench next to me. His girlfriend was watching him through the spotter. I didn't know you were watching too? Anyway, we started shooting. After a while I hear the girlfriend say, that guys just outshot your with iron sights!!!!!! I look over and she winks at me. The younger marine looks at me like, eat shit and die. I finished shooting my 10 shot group and then looked downrange at my target with my spotter. Yep, 100-4x, but about a 1 1/2" 10 shot group. Then I look over to the left and the poor guy shooting the fancy 338 lapua shot a 3-4" 3 shot group. I asked if he wanted to go down and set up another target and he says, "no I'm done".. Your story reminded me of something that actually happened to me. Guys making excuses because they can't shoot... About sums it up..
Glad you liked the video, Cheers