I always love the fact that when I called Vortex one time to ask a question about diameter of an eyepiece…THE Jimmy answered the phone. Not only did he say his name, but I recognized the voice right away from the 10 Minute Talks. Love that.
Super helpful. I just ordered a Vortex BDC scope and my biggest concern was “what is this BDC designed for?” Never crossed my mind to simply use a ballistic calculator and figure out what my values are for my load. Excellent!
Thank u for never talking about frustrating gun politics. It's so refreshing just talking all things shooting,. Really love the show been a subby since the beginning. I'm in australia and are establishing a collection of vortex scopes they have worked well for me . Got three cross fire ii red dots one being a spare a diamond back tactical 4-12×40 and a cross fire ii 3-9×40 vmr 1 and deadhold bdc testicles this chat has been great and even prompted me to do maths, for the first time since high school I used algebra to help work out info to input into reticle. This has really helped me feel more confident using these rectile and distance and moa bdc functions. Kind regards fellas damo.
Very happy you're doing this video! I know too many people who assume the bdc will automatically work at 100 yard increments without checking. Even caliber specific can't be trusted. A 24" 223 shooting 40gr vmax and a 16" AR shooting 75gr OTMs will have drastically different trajectories
@ Carter Thiessen You're so right! I owned an ACOG for a while, a TA11H-G 3.5x35 for 5.56x45. Just for grins one time, I actually checked the dope on the BDC out to 600 meters, which is all I had available, using standard 55-grain, 62-grain and 75-grain loads fired under rigorous conditions. It turns out that the BDC wasn't even close to being on out past 300 meters. It was sold commercially at a big-box sporting goods store, and did not come with documentation for the specifics of the reticle (as Trijicon supplies to the military and LE contracts), but long story short, I eventually discovered that they hadn't even installed the correct reticle in it. But even if the correct reticle was in it, you can still get a ton of variation depending on your specific FA, load, shooting technique and zero, and environmental conditions. IMHO, the best BDC around today for ARs is made by Primary Arms, whose patented ACSS reticles are state of the art. Even Trijicon had to license the ACSS since they could not develop anything better than did not infringe on PA's patent.
Good video! The Vortex ballistics calculator is also a great tool to determine your maximum point blank range based on the specific diameter you wish to use. Say plus or minus 4” for a whitetail deer.
Thank you so much for this one! I just put a new Viper 6.5-20x44 dead hold BDC on my new Ruger 30-06. Shooting 165 grain. This explains and helps a lot!
BDC reticles - if properly designed and used - offer a number of advantages compared to traditional scopes, which require dialing in the firing solution - but all bullet-drop compensating reticles are compromises between precision and speed of use. Even something like the legendary ACOG which has been proven in combat time and again, is only as accurate as the conditions permit and then only when the cartridge, barrel length and muzzle velocity have been properly matched to the reticle in that version of the optic.
I just put a Diamondback 4-12x40 on my wife's Weatherby Camilla 7-08. Bore sighted, 2 bulls and 1 just out of the bull @ 25. So I moved to 100 yards. First group right at 1", second 3 shot group measured .608. Those are the first 9 round through the rifle. Only 4 clicks left, 10 clicks down, and it's 1" high at 100 yards.
When I apply my bdc reticles in the field (especially for sniping coyotes with specialty pistols) I calculate whatever hold I'll have in 100-yd intervals (using a 200 yd. zero mostly), i.e. my dope sticker in my scope cap cover may read something like this-- 3-0.9-0.5 which means 300 yds.- 9/10ths of the first subtension unit-and 1/2 of the first windage unit (for 10 mph 90 degree wind). This way I can quickly determine my interpolation between stadia lines with a base 10 system for whatever yardage the critter is at...and the system works with any multi-stadia reticle.
From a practical perspective I think a better way is to set up targets at the exact "nominative" ranges -- ie., 100, 200, 300, 400, etc yards. The note how far OFF your gun, loads, environment, etc., hits at those ranges. THEN, learn about drop rates at difference distances (approximately) by studying trajectory charts for you cartridge, etc., to learn approximately how to modify HOLD OFFS at the various ranges -- and mostly importantly, at the INTERMEDIARY distances. This involves a fair amount of PRACTICE at all ranges -- but then you'll be able to shoot effectively (in your given environment -- and some practice at temperature extremes is a good idea).
Great topic! I've got a few Dead Hold BDC scopes in use and have calculated the yardages. A topic that is rarely discussed or covered is how those numbers correlate to lower or mid- magnification of the scope. For instance, almost all SFP scopes have BDC correlated to the max magnification. However, in real hunting situations, rarely are you on full mag, rather usually about one half- 3x9 set at 4-5 magnification. Thoughts?
Another way to fine tune, (not mentioned) is to slightly change the magnification to better "line up" hash marks. Combine that with zero range adjustments and you can get a very usable set of holdovers ;) For example on my muzzle;loader I set it up for 7x and a 75 yard zero, to give me drops for realistic shot ranges and level of magnification needed for that gun...
Zero at 100 yards. Then shoot at the bullseye with each drop at 100 yards. Measure how high each shot is for each drop. The calc bdc using based on your particular rifles chart. Its simple
I did the back calculation method this year for the first time. Seemed to work perfectly for Ruger American compact 6.5 creedmoor with factory barnes 127lrx. Box velocity was 2825fps. I landed right at 2600fps with 200 yard zero and holdovers at 280, 365, and 455 yards respectively. Only thing I have to trust is the claimed BC, which I would suspect is close enough for me out to 450 yards.
This was with a Leupold vx freedom creedmoor scope but i plan to play with this on a couple vortex scopes next. I also tried it with a 26” barrel 270 wsm and 140 grain vortx factory ammo and older Leupold lr duplex scope. Zeroed at 200, it aligned closely enough with the dots to keep exact 100 yard increments. Easy to remember
I've been commenting this for a year and still haven't gotten them to do this, I even asked why 300 RUM never comes out of Ryan mouth😂, I love mine! And it's a flat shooting SOB!!!
Grammar cop speaks: I note that MANY people misuse the word "nominal." In fact it means "in name only" (nom = name). But many people take it to mean "minimal." It CAN be used that way -- but usually, only by convention, when talking about the price of something. Thus, if the price of something is very low, one can refer to it as the price being "nominal." It doesn't really mean the price is small -- it means that it's a price, sort of, "in name only." If I were to sell you my house for $1, we could refer to it as a "nominal" price -- just something we CALL a price. Just sayin'
I enjoy these chats. I wonder if some of the extraneous chit chat could be eliminated to actually bring them closer to the 10 minutes I had available at that moment to watch one while I scarf down a couple tacos or a Whopper.
If these hold overs are based on full magnification, how do you compensate for being in a lower magnification setting. I have a 3.5-10x50 if I have my magnification at 6 or at 3.5 how will this effect your hold yardages?
So taking what I learned here, How does the, for example, 280 yards 1st hash mark reference point change over the magnification range. Most of these DBC are 2nd focal so doesn't the hasmark hit different points of yardage while magnifying in and out, even though my ZERO is still a point in space at the center crosshair
When talking about magnifications other than the one your SFP scope is calibrated to, now we REALLY need to start thinking about the hashmarks in terms of what MOA values they represent and take out the original corresponding distances altogether. If your second hashmark was 4.5 MOA on the calibrated magnification (Let's say that's 10x just for easy math here), and that wound up being your 300 yard holdover for a pretty typical .308 around here, backing the zoom out to 5x now would mean the image is half the size in relation to the reticle which hasn't changed, so that first hashmark is now 9 MOA down from the center. (The reticle is now bigger in relation to the image which has gotten smaller, so all its values will now be bigger). A 9 MOA hold with that same typical .308 would get you out to roughly 450 yards using rounded numbers here. So, as you can see, the MOA value doubled by backing down the magnification by 1/2, but the DISTANCE did not double. This discrepancy only gets bigger the further you go. If you're going to use the BDC on other powers, just be sure you're fully aware of how much your bullet is dropping at various distances so you can adjust accordingly.
Why doesn't vortex come out with an app like nikon did? You put your scope in, bullet info and then it gives you yards for that load. It's a great app but I've been buying vortex scopes since nikon stopped selling scopes
Also, just want to give Mark some support. Although I don't know anyone Texas who shoots a WSM, so I don't know it is pronounced, I think Mark is fine with the wizzum. However, no one says wim for Win Mag. I don't know anyone who shoots .308 Marlin Express, so I don't know how they would pronounce the abbreviation on the box "Mar Exp." So, it sounds like he is doing the best that he can in a difficult situation.
Hello, I know this is older commentary but I have a vortex diamondback 3.5-10x50 with bdc and would like to use it with different manufacturers ammunition in the same grain weight, .308 165gr. Mind you this is for hunting not target shooting so an inch left or right or up or down is not the end of the world so long as I can put the rounds on vitals at 400 yards I am happy. Will my bdc work for this type of scenario??? Thanks for the videos!!!!
One thing I've noticed is with like every cartridge/ caliber is that most are close to 3" high at 100 yards your close to 3" low at 300 yards I know some can go farther and less than 3" but average hunting cartridges that aren't the flatest or magnum cartridges i know the 270 win and 300 win mag can go lot farther but for most common hunting cartridges 300 yards seems pretty good distance
3000 feet per second plus rounds, as a general rule for me, isn't bad to start zero at 200 yards. 2000 feet per second, as a general rule, I like to start zero around 130 yards, often it is 1.1 inches high at 100 yards. Slugs and .22LR I zero around 100 yards when using a scope, because the bullet or slug is still rising at 25 yards and hits close to zero, then as it drops they hit zero at 100 yards. Really easy when hunting with these much slower rounds within 100 yards to have them plotted zero in your mind at 25, 50, 75, and a 100 yards. Then if it is a little past 100 yards it is still within 'point blank range' for your deer slugs.
Buy a mil scaled reticle for range estimation and after determining distance to target hold for correct elevation from a range card which has identified mil hold needs based on caliber/conditions. This is the only means to good first round hits.
Pardon me for not really knowing but at what magnification are those hypothetic numbers for the 300 WSSM? Are they only at highest magnification ie. 4-16x50 so those only apply to 16 magnification? I've never really dug into ballistics to much because I've just ran 3x9x40 scopes no hashes etc. and zero'd at 200 yds. Anyone can let me know that'd be cool. And then the next question would be how do I get a dope chart for 4, 5, 6, on up etc. magnification so I know the yardage of the hashes at those powers. Excellent video great information btw!
If you are using a second focal plane optic (SFP), which most BDC reticles will be in, you would need to be at the highest magnification or predetermined magnification for those subtension values to be accurate. When not at the highest magnification, you can do the math to figure out the value of each hashmark. For example, if you have an optic with a max magnification of 16x and you want to use it at 8x. You would simply take the magnification where it is setup (16x) and divide it by the magnification you are on (8x). You would then multiply that number by the subtension value (1.5 MOA for the first stadia line on the Dead-Hold BDC reticle). (16/8)*1.5 = 3 MOA. You can use this formula for any magnification setting, but as you can see if you are at half the magnification, the value is worth twice as much. If you are at 1/4 of the magnification the value would be worth 4x as much and so on.
Please do a pod cast about caliber specific ballistic turret on different load for the same caliber. Great show guys, love my diamond back tactical on my rifle
@@VortexNation well it’s a distinction without a difference actually. What’s popular now is caliber specific ballistic turret, which is fine and dandy for one load, but what if you have a softer load for a specific application and want to use the same dial? Mind you it’s easy enough to figure it out, but the industry trying to talk you into the need of getting another dial. Just a random thought, that’s why I’m a fan of the diamond back tactical Love your show guys
Buy your gun and ammunition online 🇺🇸🇺🇸 Discreetfirearmstore.com Got certified FFL and ship to all states.. ammunition available are: 9mm, 5.56, 223, 45acp, 65creedmor, 22lr, 380,and more .. Dm us if interested and purchase up your ammo online Contacts us on +1(313) 284-6781
@@VortexNation The viper HSLR on my 7mm-08 seems like it will fall under the Class A. Class A. 100 yrd zero. 30-06, 308, 270. Class B. 200 yrd. Zero. 300 win-mag, 7mm mag. However I think I want a 200 zero instead. Wiill that throw our hash marks off to far? What do you think.
@@I_am_archie Easiest thing to do with all this would be to give us a call and we can help you get a profile really nicely dialed in. 800-426-0048 Extension 5 will get you the best people to do it!
Just installed my first Vortex. I put a Crossfire ii 4-16 BDC on my .270. I was wondering if the hash marks were true 100 yard increments. Now I know. My rifle likes the Winchester Expedition Accubonds LR, 150 gr. Now I need to see if I can find more ammunition and download a ballistics calculator. LoL!! 😁
Great question - they might not line up exactly in 100 yard increments, but they would probably be pretty close. That is based completely dependent on your ballistics. Here is a link to our ballistic calculator where you can run your numbers: lrbc.vortexoptics.com/#!/ Also, here is a link to a video showing how to run the LRBC and how to relate the information you get to the Dead-Hold BDC reticle: ruclips.net/video/97m6lp5ZcKc/видео.html If you have any questions, please let us know!
Handy I found this today, just bought a shiny new Savage in 7mm-08 with a shiny new Vortex scope on top, gonna sight it in in the next few days and was curious how to figure that out :)
Buy your gun and ammunition online 🇺🇸🇺🇸 Discreetfirearmstore.com Got certified FFL and ship to all states.. ammunition available are: 9mm, 5.56, 223, 45acp, 65creedmor, 22lr, 380,and more .. Dm us if interested and purchase up your ammo online Contacts us on +1(313) 284-6781
At half magnification it's probably safe to assume that you are in the ballpark of 1/2 of the MOA values at full power. Your 7.5 MOA hash becomes 3.75 MOA
What is the benefit of a BDC? If someone is going to go through the trouble of trueing an optic why wouldn't/shouldn't someone just go with a MIL/MOA reticle? Or does it all just boil down to shooter preference?
The BDC is faster to use at known distance. If you have time to do the extra step, the mil/moa will be more accurate . Depends on size distance to target , and if target is moving.
BDC reticles are useful in certain tactical situations, for example a soldier or Marine needing to make a rapid snap-shot on an enemy fighter, without time for doing careful range-finding measures or the like. The Trijicon ACOG was revolutionary when it was introduced back in the 1980s, because its reticles had built-in rapid range-finding tools, such as range holdover hashmarks calibrated to the width of the typical enemy soldier, around 18" wide at the shoulder. Going back further, the Soviets in the 1960s had their PSO 4x scope with a stadiametric range-finder based on height. Range, dial in your range on the turret, and sent it. If you are a hunter or competitor or whatever, and need great precision, then a BDC scope is probably not what you want, especially as ranges lengthen. But if you are dealing with a standard-sized target at a predictable distance, say the brisket of a deer of 18 inches deep, then something like a RF feature might make your shot easier. That's all a duplex 30-30 reticle is, is the thinner section of the cross-hair is calibrated to the size of a deer at 100 yards. Even some iron sights - such as those found on a Springfield M1903 30-06 bolt-action rifle, are calibrated for a specific caliber and load, say M1 Ball 173-grain and or on, M2 Ball 150-grain. You flip up the ladder sight, and it is graduated in yards, not moa or mils. It worked because those riflemen - Marines or soldiers - were not target-shooting but wanted "minute of man" accuracy, and also because they were using standardized military issue loads which were identical or nearly-so in their characteristics. But having said all of this, people's preferences certainly vary. Use whatever works for you.
Don't see the bullet, searching for lrbc goes no where, ballistic calculator goes no where. Where can I find the long range ballistic calculator on your site?
I’m looking for a scope for my new weatherby 257 mag. Everything I’ve seen say the crossfire ii 4-12 BDC or Diamondback BDC is the best. Can someone help.
My viper hs 4-16x50 on 6.5 creedmoor 0-300 on crosshair and 400, 600, 750, 900 are my holds on 8 power. 0-300 crosshairs and 350, 450, 550, 650 on my holds at 16 power. 25 yard zero
I saw this to late...I have brain injury and it is very difficult to understand the processes I think bought wrong scope..maybe it could work...is there anyone could talk to..im sure you guys are very busy...if not I understand Some joe out of the sea of people who use your optics
Fud Three Gun Fun... No semi auto or detachable box mag rifles, water fowl hunting shotguns, revolver or 1911 only.... All weapons factory, only optic 4-12 on rifle as option. Blaze orange or red plaid shirt required. .... Ready Go
I love your scopes value but when I bought mine I didn't realize the hashmarks weren't even MOA...1, 2, 3 etc.. I find your reticles actually more difficult for real precision shooting.
@@TacticallyTasty actually no. the heavy pills will be running at a lower fps than say a 40 or 55 grn bullet so your barrel life would be longer. but the higher b.c. of the heavy bullets would more than make up for the speed of the lightweights at longer distance. really wish savage would make the 12fv in a 1:8 or 1:7.5 twist flavor 22-250 from the factory along with the 1:12 for the varmint hunters
All the years dealing with second focal plane optics and now using first, I have a hard time wanting to go back. The SFP optics with the BDC hashes was the worst invention ever. You swap powers and your hash values change and you have no basis to figure where to start other than trying to find a range with big enough steel so you can shoot at every distance switching powers to see where they line up! If I was designing a SFP optic with hashes, I would base it off of common drops like 4, 8, 10, 15, 20 MOA (for example), then have those numbers available at each power selection of the magnification ring so that someone could figure out their drops with a program or by BC & Velocity drops at each distance then converting to an MOA or Mil and having numbers to base drops off at each power selected so guys can make effective charts or have good knowledge for which hash to hold.
I have a better way. With the second target at a longer distance place marks 1" apart below the target so you can view where the bullet hits. That way it saves shutting down the range to go do measuring of your shots. ps: sometimes I just measure the holdover to know how to adjust
I purchased the Vortex Diamondback Dead Hold BDC MOA 4-12x40… Eye relief is too short. 3.1” leaves dark halo or you careen your neck uncomfortably awkward. Design flaw makes it not worth it
In my case I can afford to buy a ballistics calculator and when I try to get free ones off the phone that say they are free turns out they're not I am using a ticker 270 when would a 130 grain Hornady the red white and blue American box could anyone give me a clue with my hash marks might be that has a calculator I sure would appreciate it
@ Wolf - Some BDC reticles have RF or range-finding features built into them. The Primary Arms ACSS reticle line is an example, but there are also others - such as Trijicon's ACOG or even older, the old PSO type system used by the Soviets since the 1960s and copied by people like IOR-Bucharesti Optics of Romania in the present day.
"BDC" stands for "bullet-drop compensation," and BDC reticles have historically had appeal in certain situations for hunters and tactical marksmen such as the military. Most long guns have what is known as the maximum point blank range, a range - it varies by caliber and firearm - at which the sights can be used without adjusting the sight setting or zero. The military calls it "battle sight zero," but the idea is the same. For something like an old M-1 Garand rifle, of WWII-Korea fame, it was designed to shoot 150-grain M2 Ball or full-metal jacket ammo at 2800 fps out of that 24-inch barrel, for a battle-sight zero of 275 yards, which translated to - I'm working from memory here - the ability to aim center mass at an enemy soldier and hit without adjusting the sights, from 0-300 yards. A deer-hunter trying to hit a white-tail deer - average brisket or chest depth of 18" or so - will try and set up his rifle so that he can use his sights without adjustment out to maybe 250-300 yards, depending on his rifle, load and so on. Maximum point-blank range (MPBR) and BSZ (battle-sight zero) are fine, but what about a longer shot? Or a cartridge whose trajectory isn't as forgiving? One answer is a BDC, which is a reticle calibrated for a specific cartridge and muzzle velocity, which will be fairly accurate at a known range of distances. For hunters, the Shepard rifle scope company, for example, makes a scope with 18" range-finding circles, which are calibrated for your specific rifle and load. That way, all you have to do when deer-hunting is use the reticle to determine the range by fitting the deer's brisket or chest into the correct size circle (range) and correcting for any wind, and then break the shot. Of course, it needs to be an adult deer and of the correct species, but that's the idea. If you know something on that game animal that measures 18" you can use it to range-find and make the shot ethically and cleanly. That's an example of a reticle-based BDC. There are also turret based systems, which do not range-find for you, but do dial in a pre-set range value or elevation using your scope's elevation dial. Leupold and Stevens, the U.S. optics manufacturer, does their CDS or "custom dial system," which replaces the moa or mil hashmarks on your scope's elevation dial or knob with distance values measured in yards or meters, depending on what you, the customer, specify from their custom shop. So again using an example of a white-tail deer hunter, you'd range-find the deer - either using your naked eye or a laser range-finder, and then dial in your estimated range on the elevation knob and you are good-to-go. The whole idea behind BDC scopes is to minimize complex math problems in the field so that the hunter or sportsman (or soldier, as the case may be) can concentrate on other things. Sometimes, that deer with the huge rack of antlers is visible only for a few seconds, not enough time to sit there and figure out the math if the shot involves that. The key piece of the puzzle, if you are a hunter, is that you must not attempt shots which you are not reasonably confident of making cleaning. You want to make an ethical, clean kill of that deer, not inflict needless suffering on it or have to track a wounded animal for five miles or something. That's with whatever kind of sighting system you select. And if you are new, get someone experienced and who knows the ropes so to speak, to show you how to do it properly. Everyone's a beginner sometime, right?
Well you guys just confused the f..k out of me. I need to to be able to shoot 350 yards max. Thought I knew what the deal is with optics but my head is spinning now. I've always held a little hi or held a touch higher and done well. Thought the BDC was going to be my deal . Now got no idea.Thanks.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
One of the best things about these videos is that there’s no annoying ads.
You’re gonna jinx. It’ll be some young black kid giving financial advice to some old white couple. Or medical or legal.
@@jaycee30865 what?
I think the sponsor is… uhh starts with a V… umm
I always love the fact that when I called Vortex one time to ask a question about diameter of an eyepiece…THE Jimmy answered the phone. Not only did he say his name, but I recognized the voice right away from the 10 Minute Talks. Love that.
Super helpful. I just ordered a Vortex BDC scope and my biggest concern was “what is this BDC designed for?” Never crossed my mind to simply use a ballistic calculator and figure out what my values are for my load. Excellent!
Thank u for never talking about frustrating gun politics. It's so refreshing just talking all things shooting,. Really love the show been a subby since the beginning. I'm in australia and are establishing a collection of vortex scopes they have worked well for me . Got three cross fire ii red dots one being a spare a diamond back tactical 4-12×40 and a cross fire ii 3-9×40 vmr 1 and deadhold bdc testicles this chat has been great and even prompted me to do maths, for the first time since high school I used algebra to help work out info to input into reticle. This has really helped me feel more confident using these rectile and distance and moa bdc functions. Kind regards fellas damo.
Bdc testicles... 🤣
They make a crossfire vmr???
You might want to edit...😉
"Deadhold BDC testicles"
@@ClearStreamsUK He doesn't want to talk about politics, but testicles are ok 😁
Very happy you're doing this video! I know too many people who assume the bdc will automatically work at 100 yard increments without checking. Even caliber specific can't be trusted. A 24" 223 shooting 40gr vmax and a 16" AR shooting 75gr OTMs will have drastically different trajectories
Those are drastically different circumstances.
@ Carter Thiessen
You're so right! I owned an ACOG for a while, a TA11H-G 3.5x35 for 5.56x45. Just for grins one time, I actually checked the dope on the BDC out to 600 meters, which is all I had available, using standard 55-grain, 62-grain and 75-grain loads fired under rigorous conditions. It turns out that the BDC wasn't even close to being on out past 300 meters. It was sold commercially at a big-box sporting goods store, and did not come with documentation for the specifics of the reticle (as Trijicon supplies to the military and LE contracts), but long story short, I eventually discovered that they hadn't even installed the correct reticle in it. But even if the correct reticle was in it, you can still get a ton of variation depending on your specific FA, load, shooting technique and zero, and environmental conditions.
IMHO, the best BDC around today for ARs is made by Primary Arms, whose patented ACSS reticles are state of the art. Even Trijicon had to license the ACSS since they could not develop anything better than did not infringe on PA's patent.
Or get Strelok Pro and it will show you on your reticle where the impact will be. (at all magnifications as well)
Good video! The Vortex ballistics calculator is also a great tool to determine your maximum point blank range based on the specific diameter you wish to use. Say plus or minus 4” for a whitetail deer.
Thank you so much for this one! I just put a new Viper 6.5-20x44 dead hold BDC on my new Ruger 30-06. Shooting 165 grain. This explains and helps a lot!
Hey Jason, how did it turn out and how do you like the scope? I'm getting ready to put one on my 7mm-08. God Bless
BDC reticles - if properly designed and used - offer a number of advantages compared to traditional scopes, which require dialing in the firing solution - but all bullet-drop compensating reticles are compromises between precision and speed of use. Even something like the legendary ACOG which has been proven in combat time and again, is only as accurate as the conditions permit and then only when the cartridge, barrel length and muzzle velocity have been properly matched to the reticle in that version of the optic.
I just put a Diamondback 4-12x40 on my wife's Weatherby Camilla 7-08. Bore sighted, 2 bulls and 1 just out of the bull @ 25. So I moved to 100 yards. First group right at 1", second 3 shot group measured .608. Those are the first 9 round through the rifle. Only 4 clicks left, 10 clicks down, and it's 1" high at 100 yards.
Incredibly helpful information. I'm pretty confident in making the right choice for my new optic now.
Happy to hear that, Randy! Thanks for being a part of Vortex Nation and let us know if you have any questions about anything!
I usually listen to the podcast but great job everyone. The guy in the black shirt I thought was an older man by his voice. My bad but much respect!
When I apply my bdc reticles in the field (especially for sniping coyotes with specialty pistols) I calculate whatever hold I'll have in 100-yd intervals (using a 200 yd. zero mostly), i.e. my dope sticker in my scope cap cover may read something like this-- 3-0.9-0.5 which means 300 yds.- 9/10ths of the first subtension unit-and 1/2 of the first windage unit (for 10 mph 90 degree wind). This way I can quickly determine my interpolation between stadia lines with a base 10 system for whatever yardage the critter is at...and the system works with any multi-stadia reticle.
From a practical perspective I think a better way is to set up targets at the exact "nominative" ranges -- ie., 100, 200, 300, 400, etc yards. The note how far OFF your gun, loads, environment, etc., hits at those ranges. THEN, learn about drop rates at difference distances (approximately) by studying trajectory charts for you cartridge, etc., to learn approximately how to modify HOLD OFFS at the various ranges -- and mostly importantly, at the INTERMEDIARY distances. This involves a fair amount of PRACTICE at all ranges -- but then you'll be able to shoot effectively (in your given environment -- and some practice at temperature extremes is a good idea).
Great topic! I've got a few Dead Hold BDC scopes in use and have calculated the yardages. A topic that is rarely discussed or covered is how those numbers correlate to lower or mid- magnification of the scope. For instance, almost all SFP scopes have BDC correlated to the max magnification. However, in real hunting situations, rarely are you on full mag, rather usually about one half- 3x9 set at 4-5 magnification.
Thoughts?
If you’re only using half magnification, especially on just a 3-9x, then the shot shouldn’t be enough distance to require hardly any hold over anyways
In Strelok Pro your able to get bdc info for reticles at all magnifications of given a scope.
@@joelgoodrich3709 Yup! Decided to use technology and use the Strelock Pro! 👍🏼
Another way to fine tune, (not mentioned) is to slightly change the magnification to better "line up" hash marks. Combine that with zero range adjustments and you can get a very usable set of holdovers ;) For example on my muzzle;loader I set it up for 7x and a 75 yard zero, to give me drops for realistic shot ranges and level of magnification needed for that gun...
Nice! Pretty slick little trick there.
@@VortexNation Yes,I learned that little trick on Nikons spot on app years ago,or like Jimmy said,just get a Ryan 😁
Zero at 100 yards. Then shoot at the bullseye with each drop at 100 yards. Measure how high each shot is for each drop. The calc bdc using based on your particular rifles chart. Its simple
I did the back calculation method this year for the first time. Seemed to work perfectly for Ruger American compact 6.5 creedmoor with factory barnes 127lrx. Box velocity was 2825fps. I landed right at 2600fps with 200 yard zero and holdovers at 280, 365, and 455 yards respectively. Only thing I have to trust is the claimed BC, which I would suspect is close enough for me out to 450 yards.
This was with a Leupold vx freedom creedmoor scope but i plan to play with this on a couple vortex scopes next. I also tried it with a 26” barrel 270 wsm and 140 grain vortx factory ammo and older Leupold lr duplex scope. Zeroed at 200, it aligned closely enough with the dots to keep exact 100 yard increments. Easy to remember
Excelllent video. Very informative. Love all of my Vortex Diamondbacks.
The 300 rum would make a great 10 minute ish talk
E hi h
I've been commenting this for a year and still haven't gotten them to do this, I even asked why 300 RUM never comes out of Ryan mouth😂, I love mine! And it's a flat shooting SOB!!!
Grammar cop speaks: I note that MANY people misuse the word "nominal." In fact it means "in name only" (nom = name). But many people take it to mean "minimal." It CAN be used that way -- but usually, only by convention, when talking about the price of something. Thus, if the price of something is very low, one can refer to it as the price being "nominal." It doesn't really mean the price is small -- it means that it's a price, sort of, "in name only." If I were to sell you my house for $1, we could refer to it as a "nominal" price -- just something we CALL a price. Just sayin'
Thanks for the English class
I enjoy these chats.
I wonder if some of the extraneous chit chat could be eliminated to actually bring them closer to the 10 minutes I had available at that moment to watch one while I scarf down a couple tacos or a Whopper.
Best job ever 😊
Definitely need to come out with a shirt "get a Ryan" !
Another important thing is hight over boar of the scope. An as a hunter we are aiming for that fist size heart, for that ethical kill.
If these hold overs are based on full magnification, how do you compensate for being in a lower magnification setting. I have a 3.5-10x50 if I have my magnification at 6 or at 3.5 how will this effect your hold yardages?
Very enjoyable chat. Thank you gents.
Thanks a bunch. Really informative.
Glad you found it helpful! :)
I Had to zero my bdc to 175m for the hach marks be at right place, now it works great
So taking what I learned here, How does the, for example, 280 yards 1st hash mark reference point change over the magnification range. Most of these DBC are 2nd focal so doesn't the hasmark hit different points of yardage while magnifying in and out, even though my ZERO is still a point in space at the center crosshair
When talking about magnifications other than the one your SFP scope is calibrated to, now we REALLY need to start thinking about the hashmarks in terms of what MOA values they represent and take out the original corresponding distances altogether. If your second hashmark was 4.5 MOA on the calibrated magnification (Let's say that's 10x just for easy math here), and that wound up being your 300 yard holdover for a pretty typical .308 around here, backing the zoom out to 5x now would mean the image is half the size in relation to the reticle which hasn't changed, so that first hashmark is now 9 MOA down from the center. (The reticle is now bigger in relation to the image which has gotten smaller, so all its values will now be bigger). A 9 MOA hold with that same typical .308 would get you out to roughly 450 yards using rounded numbers here. So, as you can see, the MOA value doubled by backing down the magnification by 1/2, but the DISTANCE did not double. This discrepancy only gets bigger the further you go. If you're going to use the BDC on other powers, just be sure you're fully aware of how much your bullet is dropping at various distances so you can adjust accordingly.
@@VortexNation That is an amazing explanation. Thank you
Why doesn't vortex come out with an app like nikon did? You put your scope in, bullet info and then it gives you yards for that load. It's a great app but I've been buying vortex scopes since nikon stopped selling scopes
Also, just want to give Mark some support. Although I don't know anyone Texas who shoots a WSM, so I don't know it is pronounced, I think Mark is fine with the wizzum. However, no one says wim for Win Mag. I don't know anyone who shoots .308 Marlin Express, so I don't know how they would pronounce the abbreviation on the box "Mar Exp."
So, it sounds like he is doing the best that he can in a difficult situation.
Hello, I know this is older commentary but I have a vortex diamondback 3.5-10x50 with bdc and would like to use it with different manufacturers ammunition in the same grain weight, .308 165gr. Mind you this is for hunting not target shooting so an inch left or right or up or down is not the end of the world so long as I can put the rounds on vitals at 400 yards I am happy. Will my bdc work for this type of scenario??? Thanks for the videos!!!!
One thing I've noticed is with like every cartridge/ caliber is that most are close to 3" high at 100 yards your close to 3" low at 300 yards I know some can go farther and less than 3" but average hunting cartridges that aren't the flatest or magnum cartridges i know the 270 win and 300 win mag can go lot farther but for most common hunting cartridges 300 yards seems pretty good distance
A 10 minute talk on the .17HM2 would be cool
3000 feet per second plus rounds, as a general rule for me, isn't bad to start zero at 200 yards.
2000 feet per second, as a general rule, I like to start zero around 130 yards, often it is 1.1 inches high at 100 yards.
Slugs and .22LR I zero around 100 yards when using a scope, because the bullet or slug is still rising at 25 yards and hits close to zero, then as it drops they hit zero at 100 yards. Really easy when hunting with these much slower rounds within 100 yards to have them plotted zero in your mind at 25, 50, 75, and a 100 yards. Then if it is a little past 100 yards it is still within 'point blank range' for your deer slugs.
Buy a mil scaled reticle for range estimation and after determining distance to target hold for correct elevation from a range card which has identified mil hold needs based on caliber/conditions. This is the only means to good first round hits.
Pardon me for not really knowing but at what magnification are those hypothetic numbers for the 300 WSSM? Are they only at highest magnification ie. 4-16x50 so those only apply to 16 magnification? I've never really dug into ballistics to much because I've just ran 3x9x40 scopes no hashes etc. and zero'd at 200 yds. Anyone can let me know that'd be cool. And then the next question would be how do I get a dope chart for 4, 5, 6, on up etc. magnification so I know the yardage of the hashes at those powers. Excellent video great information btw!
If you are using a second focal plane optic (SFP), which most BDC reticles will be in, you would need to be at the highest magnification or predetermined magnification for those subtension values to be accurate.
When not at the highest magnification, you can do the math to figure out the value of each hashmark. For example, if you have an optic with a max magnification of 16x and you want to use it at 8x. You would simply take the magnification where it is setup (16x) and divide it by the magnification you are on (8x). You would then multiply that number by the subtension value (1.5 MOA for the first stadia line on the Dead-Hold BDC reticle). (16/8)*1.5 = 3 MOA.
You can use this formula for any magnification setting, but as you can see if you are at half the magnification, the value is worth twice as much. If you are at 1/4 of the magnification the value would be worth 4x as much and so on.
@@VortexNation thank you for your reply I appreciate the information!! Keep up the great work.
Please do a pod cast about caliber specific ballistic turret on different load for the same caliber.
Great show guys, love my diamond back tactical on my rifle
Just to clarify - something different than we went over in this podcast? - ruclips.net/video/gj03gc5S9WA/видео.html
@@VortexNation well it’s a distinction without a difference actually.
What’s popular now is caliber specific ballistic turret, which is fine and dandy for one load, but what if you have a softer load for a specific application and want to use the same dial? Mind you it’s easy enough to figure it out, but the industry trying to talk you into the need of getting another dial.
Just a random thought, that’s why I’m a fan of the diamond back tactical
Love your show guys
Buy your gun and ammunition online 🇺🇸🇺🇸
Discreetfirearmstore.com
Got certified FFL and ship to all states.. ammunition available are: 9mm, 5.56, 223, 45acp, 65creedmor, 22lr, 380,and more ..
Dm us if interested and purchase up your ammo online
Contacts us on +1(313) 284-6781
So the vortex lrbc on your site does not calculate yards to hash marks like Ryan calculated. How did he do that?
Ryan was using one of his phone apps in this one - it was very likely either iSnipe or Shooter Ballistics
@@VortexNation thanks
@@VortexNation The viper HSLR on my 7mm-08 seems like it will fall under the Class A.
Class A. 100 yrd zero. 30-06, 308, 270.
Class B. 200 yrd. Zero. 300 win-mag, 7mm mag.
However I think I want a 200 zero instead. Wiill that throw our hash marks off to far?
What do you think.
@@I_am_archie Easiest thing to do with all this would be to give us a call and we can help you get a profile really nicely dialed in. 800-426-0048 Extension 5 will get you the best people to do it!
Just installed my first Vortex. I put a Crossfire ii 4-16 BDC on my .270. I was wondering if the hash marks were true 100 yard increments. Now I know. My rifle likes the Winchester Expedition Accubonds LR, 150 gr. Now I need to see if I can find more ammunition and download a ballistics calculator. LoL!! 😁
Great question - they might not line up exactly in 100 yard increments, but they would probably be pretty close. That is based completely dependent on your ballistics. Here is a link to our ballistic calculator where you can run your numbers: lrbc.vortexoptics.com/#!/
Also, here is a link to a video showing how to run the LRBC and how to relate the information you get to the Dead-Hold BDC reticle: ruclips.net/video/97m6lp5ZcKc/видео.html
If you have any questions, please let us know!
bdc scope for that flat shooting 270 ??
Great video guys but still waiting on the next reloading to the extreme podcast!!! LOL
So adjusting the fps in the app is the best way to match real world dope to the reticle?
I have a vortex diamondback 3-9x40 what magnificent do I need to set it to to sight in for the bdc to work. It's on a 30-06 180 grain
Sounds like you will have to have it set at 9/highest magnification.
Love it! Red rum.... do 300 Rum! 🪓 👯♀️ hahaha
When are vortex all going to be made in the US?
Handy I found this today, just bought a shiny new Savage in 7mm-08 with a shiny new Vortex scope on top, gonna sight it in in the next few days and was curious how to figure that out :)
Right on! If you have any questions or need any help, don't hesitate to reach out.
These 10 min talks are great! Have you considered a .303 British talk? I bet there is some good history with that one.
No has considered it
Just kidding. Cool round.
Buy your gun and ammunition online 🇺🇸🇺🇸
Discreetfirearmstore.com
Got certified FFL and ship to all states.. ammunition available are: 9mm, 5.56, 223, 45acp, 65creedmor, 22lr, 380,and more ..
Dm us if interested and purchase up your ammo online
Contacts us on +1(313) 284-6781
what Ballistic calculator app for your phone would you guys recommend?
Good job. Thank you.
...and what happens if I want to use my bdc at lower power, such as 8 rather than 16?
At half magnification it's probably safe to assume that you are in the ballpark of 1/2 of the MOA values at full power. Your 7.5 MOA hash becomes 3.75 MOA
If your scope is first focal plane they are on not matter what magnification, if it’s second focal plane it will be off
How is the vrm retinal laid out?
What is the benefit of a BDC? If someone is going to go through the trouble of trueing an optic why wouldn't/shouldn't someone just go with a MIL/MOA reticle? Or does it all just boil down to shooter preference?
The BDC is faster to use at known distance. If you have time to do the extra step, the mil/moa will be more accurate . Depends on size distance to target , and if target is moving.
BDC reticles are useful in certain tactical situations, for example a soldier or Marine needing to make a rapid snap-shot on an enemy fighter, without time for doing careful range-finding measures or the like. The Trijicon ACOG was revolutionary when it was introduced back in the 1980s, because its reticles had built-in rapid range-finding tools, such as range holdover hashmarks calibrated to the width of the typical enemy soldier, around 18" wide at the shoulder.
Going back further, the Soviets in the 1960s had their PSO 4x scope with a stadiametric range-finder based on height. Range, dial in your range on the turret, and sent it.
If you are a hunter or competitor or whatever, and need great precision, then a BDC scope is probably not what you want, especially as ranges lengthen. But if you are dealing with a standard-sized target at a predictable distance, say the brisket of a deer of 18 inches deep, then something like a RF feature might make your shot easier. That's all a duplex 30-30 reticle is, is the thinner section of the cross-hair is calibrated to the size of a deer at 100 yards.
Even some iron sights - such as those found on a Springfield M1903 30-06 bolt-action rifle, are calibrated for a specific caliber and load, say M1 Ball 173-grain and or on, M2 Ball 150-grain. You flip up the ladder sight, and it is graduated in yards, not moa or mils. It worked because those riflemen - Marines or soldiers - were not target-shooting but wanted "minute of man" accuracy, and also because they were using standardized military issue loads which were identical or nearly-so in their characteristics.
But having said all of this, people's preferences certainly vary. Use whatever works for you.
Don't see the bullet, searching for lrbc goes no where, ballistic calculator goes no where. Where can I find the long range ballistic calculator on your site?
Trying to find a solution for 8 mm mauser. Any ideas?
Hey guys. I’m having some trouble with my diamond back ebr-2c on my .308 I can’t get it to hold zero at 100 meters
The particulars of these particularized particulates are particularly pretty particular...🤔
Puzzling and perplexing this particular post.
Narrowed it down to vertex strike eagle for my 300 blk
Tell me boys is that good choice
Why use the hash marks when you can just dial your turret to the proper distance?
How does a 8mm Mauser match up with a BDC set around .308?
I’m looking for a scope for my new weatherby 257 mag. Everything I’ve seen say the crossfire ii 4-12 BDC or Diamondback BDC is the best. Can someone help.
My 4x12x44. Whats the magnification whe the bdc is on
Should be the maximum which is 12x magnification.
Thanks for the video
My viper hs 4-16x50 on 6.5 creedmoor 0-300 on crosshair and 400, 600, 750, 900 are my holds on 8 power. 0-300 crosshairs and 350, 450, 550, 650 on my holds at 16 power. 25 yard zero
77 grains out of a 16 inch works almost perfectly with a 36 yard zero on the strike eagle
I saw this to late...I have brain injury and it is very difficult to understand the processes
I think bought wrong scope..maybe it could work...is there anyone could talk to..im sure you guys are very busy...if not I understand
Some joe out of the sea of people who use your optics
Yes you can.. it’s called ditch BDC and learn speed drop in a mil scope
If I need to zero my rifle at 135 yards, or whatever, to make my reticle work better, that’s a no brainer.
Any chance of a 10 min talk on the 284 Winchester please.? 🇬🇧
Ryan, talk about the 300 RUM pretty please!!!!!
Fud Three Gun Fun... No semi auto or detachable box mag rifles, water fowl hunting shotguns, revolver or 1911 only.... All weapons factory, only optic 4-12 on rifle as option. Blaze orange or red plaid shirt required. .... Ready Go
Count me in, I am ready to go d8^)
Please do a #10MinutesTalk about the mighty .222 Remington. Greetings from Germany
I love your scopes value but when I bought mine I didn't realize the hashmarks weren't even MOA...1, 2, 3 etc.. I find your reticles actually more difficult for real precision shooting.
Ok I see a lot of peoples are asking for the 300 RUM.
Do a video on the Valkrie killer. A 22-250 with 26 inch barrel 1/7 twist rate shooting 88 and 90 grain pills.
I love my 22-250, but this sounds amazing! Sounds like quite the barrel burner though
or 22 Creedmoor. and my Valkyrie AR is quite alive .
@@TacticallyTasty actually no. the heavy pills will be running at a lower fps than say a 40 or 55 grn bullet so your barrel life would be longer. but the higher b.c. of the heavy bullets would more than make up for the speed of the lightweights at longer distance. really wish savage would make the 12fv in a 1:8 or 1:7.5 twist flavor 22-250 from the factory along with the 1:12 for the varmint hunters
Yeah but a 22-250 isn’t an AR15 platform cartridge..
@@Marcusb338 Thats not true. Olympic arms when in business made it in the Ar 15 platform. Look up the videos of them shooting those guns.
All the years dealing with second focal plane optics and now using first, I have a hard time wanting to go back.
The SFP optics with the BDC hashes was the worst invention ever. You swap powers and your hash values change and you have no basis to figure where to start other than trying to find a range with big enough steel so you can shoot at every distance switching powers to see where they line up! If I was designing a SFP optic with hashes, I would base it off of common drops like 4, 8, 10, 15, 20 MOA (for example), then have those numbers available at each power selection of the magnification ring so that someone could figure out their drops with a program or by BC & Velocity drops at each distance then converting to an MOA or Mil and having numbers to base drops off at each power selected so guys can make effective charts or have good knowledge for which hash to hold.
I have a better way.
With the second target at a longer distance place marks 1" apart below the target so you can view where the bullet hits.
That way it saves shutting down the range to go do measuring of your shots.
ps: sometimes I just measure the holdover to know how to adjust
Definitely need to do a .222 talk.
How was hoping he’d help me understand my BDC but I’m still lost thanks for Trying, oh by the way that’s a lot of Spam on the shelf there.
Holy chit that's funny!
I purchased the Vortex Diamondback Dead Hold BDC MOA 4-12x40… Eye relief is too short. 3.1” leaves dark halo or you careen your neck uncomfortably awkward. Design flaw makes it not worth it
In my case I can afford to buy a ballistics calculator and when I try to get free ones off the phone that say they are free turns out they're not I am using a ticker 270 when would a 130 grain Hornady the red white and blue American box could anyone give me a clue with my hash marks might be that has a calculator I sure would appreciate it
Holy buckets lmfao 🤣
.300 RUM
BDC requires knowing the distance to your target, something I don't trust myself to estimate at all accurately.
Rangefinder
@ Wolf - Some BDC reticles have RF or range-finding features built into them. The Primary Arms ACSS reticle line is an example, but there are also others - such as Trijicon's ACOG or even older, the old PSO type system used by the Soviets since the 1960s and copied by people like IOR-Bucharesti Optics of Romania in the present day.
👍🏾
6PPC NOW!
Whats a BDC? Yeah I know, its a stupid question. I am unfamiliar with this acronym
Bullet Drop Compensation
"BDC" stands for "bullet-drop compensation," and BDC reticles have historically had appeal in certain situations for hunters and tactical marksmen such as the military. Most long guns have what is known as the maximum point blank range, a range - it varies by caliber and firearm - at which the sights can be used without adjusting the sight setting or zero. The military calls it "battle sight zero," but the idea is the same.
For something like an old M-1 Garand rifle, of WWII-Korea fame, it was designed to shoot 150-grain M2 Ball or full-metal jacket ammo at 2800 fps out of that 24-inch barrel, for a battle-sight zero of 275 yards, which translated to - I'm working from memory here - the ability to aim center mass at an enemy soldier and hit without adjusting the sights, from 0-300 yards.
A deer-hunter trying to hit a white-tail deer - average brisket or chest depth of 18" or so - will try and set up his rifle so that he can use his sights without adjustment out to maybe 250-300 yards, depending on his rifle, load and so on.
Maximum point-blank range (MPBR) and BSZ (battle-sight zero) are fine, but what about a longer shot? Or a cartridge whose trajectory isn't as forgiving?
One answer is a BDC, which is a reticle calibrated for a specific cartridge and muzzle velocity, which will be fairly accurate at a known range of distances.
For hunters, the Shepard rifle scope company, for example, makes a scope with 18" range-finding circles, which are calibrated for your specific rifle and load. That way, all you have to do when deer-hunting is use the reticle to determine the range by fitting the deer's brisket or chest into the correct size circle (range) and correcting for any wind, and then break the shot. Of course, it needs to be an adult deer and of the correct species, but that's the idea. If you know something on that game animal that measures 18" you can use it to range-find and make the shot ethically and cleanly.
That's an example of a reticle-based BDC. There are also turret based systems, which do not range-find for you, but do dial in a pre-set range value or elevation using your scope's elevation dial. Leupold and Stevens, the U.S. optics manufacturer, does their CDS or "custom dial system," which replaces the moa or mil hashmarks on your scope's elevation dial or knob with distance values measured in yards or meters, depending on what you, the customer, specify from their custom shop. So again using an example of a white-tail deer hunter, you'd range-find the deer - either using your naked eye or a laser range-finder, and then dial in your estimated range on the elevation knob and you are good-to-go.
The whole idea behind BDC scopes is to minimize complex math problems in the field so that the hunter or sportsman (or soldier, as the case may be) can concentrate on other things. Sometimes, that deer with the huge rack of antlers is visible only for a few seconds, not enough time to sit there and figure out the math if the shot involves that.
The key piece of the puzzle, if you are a hunter, is that you must not attempt shots which you are not reasonably confident of making cleaning. You want to make an ethical, clean kill of that deer, not inflict needless suffering on it or have to track a wounded animal for five miles or something. That's with whatever kind of sighting system you select. And if you are new, get someone experienced and who knows the ropes so to speak, to show you how to do it properly. Everyone's a beginner sometime, right?
Well you guys just confused the f..k out of me. I need to to be able to shoot 350 yards max. Thought I knew what the deal is with optics but my head is spinning now. I've always held a little hi or held a touch higher and done well. Thought the BDC was going to be my deal . Now got no idea.Thanks.
your BDC is very incomplete compared to Nikons list of ammo
All my hunting guns have funny zeroes.....
Exactly. Duplex reticles are so outdated.
what's up with the silly head sets.
10ish minutes...😅😅😅😅
From 1:27 to 2:10 is exactly why BDC scopes are a complete waist of time, and money.
.....
For the love of god, stop making BDC reticles! Just put some even spaced moa or mil hashes and let it be. BDC is hot garbadge.
Guy in the maroon shirt talks a lot but doesn't say much.